MatriNarc
Both Dr O and Dr E repeatedly like to ask me about my childhood. I do not like to talk about it. I tell them that I do not like to and the reason for that is that I do not remember much about it and therefore I feel uncomfortable talking about something which I do not feel in control of. Everyone is like that though aren’t they? If you are making a presentation but you only have half the material, you feel uncomfortable don’t you? I you are asked a question by somebody but you do not have all the information to hand, you feel uneasy. I explained that was my response and that it was an entirely understandable one. I’m not telling them the real reason behind my recalcitrance. Not a chance.
Unfortunately, Dr O then gets the bit between her teeth in one of our sessions and decides she would like to talk to me about family.
“Who has pinched your bagel this week then? Your brother or your sister?” I shot back seeking to deflect her. She ignored my remark and pressed on.
“Is there anybody in your immediate family you would like to discuss with me?” she asked.
“No.”
“Why?”
Where do I start ? Why would I want to talk about people I rarely bother with (save my brother)? Why is it that these people assume that I have some overriding desire to discuss a group of people who I am related to but have nothing in common with? What is the obsession?
I remained silent.
“Okay, how about I choose a family member and you tell me three things that you like about them and three things that you do not like about them. Just as something to start our conversation?” she suggested.
I remained silent.
“How about your mother?” she asked and looked at me expectantly.
I got up and left the room. I’m not playing that game with Dr O. No way.
16 thoughts on “MatriNarc”
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HG according to what I have read in books and online, narcissism has significantly higher percentages of males than females. Why then is there so little information about narcissistic fathers? Surely lots of people have had narcissistic fathers.
Hello Autumn, anecdotally I disagree with the difference in percentages, I am of the firm view the percentages are fair closer. That aside, why is their so little information about narcissistic fathers? I would suggest the following factors
1. Few recognise narcissist fathers;
2. Some of the traits of a narcissist father are regarded as admirable traits or ‘being a man’ or ‘a man’s man’ or ‘a traditional man’ and therefore also go unrecognised for what it actually is
3. A sense of disloyalty for speaking out against the father
4. A failure to accept what their father really is
5. There’s little or no chance of a narcissist father writing about himself as a narcissist
I think it’s mostly number 2: Many men were dismissive-avoidant and many still are, although fewer and less so than ever. They were taught and told to work in order to provide for their family and they didn’t get much in return. The less you feel, the longer you can function (as a work horse). Of course there have always been exceptions and they were the lucky ones (and so were their children).
Narcissism is a extreme variety of this dismissive-avoidant attachment. It’s an extreme detachment of feelings altogether.
h,
is vindictiveness a narsaistic trait?
My reason for asking is that it doesn’t seem intelligent, if your mother has been confirmed by you as being a narcissist but not greater narcissist (there for has no insight that she is. So in a sense is innocent like a tiger tearing up a baby rabbit :)…) why dont you understand she is helpless like you are, having to do what you do?
vindictiveness just isn’t that clever.
is that completely wrong,
This is just one of the things that confuses me, amid your brilliant and helpful writings.
Which have helped me, thank you very much.
I can relate to this not in the way that i wont talk about the narcissists in my family, my brother and mum, but i find it extremely uncomfortable and i break down crying.
I had to face this very situation this past summer when i made a phone call to my dad and explained why id not be at my half brothers wedding. It was bc my brother, his wife and their daughter would be there. This isnt to suggest that they had no right to be there but that it was extremely uncomfortable to me to be there with them after not seeing my brother for 11 yrs. I didnt realise how that conversation would affect me. It was so hard to contain the deep emotion id stored away for years. I try not to think about it bc it upsets me so much. I ended up crying but kept it together while explaining what lead up to us not talking for 11 yrs. He seemed to not be aware we hadnt been in contact or pretended not to for my benefit. My dad being the gruff man type found it unsettling my tears and helped me thru it. That phone call i dreaded for months rehashed so much within me ive stored away. Two days after i was still affected by these emotions that surfaced as a result of that call.
I think the more painful the experience the deeper its buried and the more we avoid facing it. I know this was the case for me. A lesson i learned from this is that afterwards i felt lighter and stronger. Im starting to slowly face some fears in my life and as scary as they are it feels good to do so.
Comment:
Mr. Tudor,
While I have yet to find a specific writing about your Mother, I am inclined to think, I’ve seen what a “Martrinarc” can do, for 41 years. My own mother was, think “Mommy Dearest”, a monster and I was not the “Golden Child”, my brother was and the lazy sap still is.
I know what she is and the damage she did. I know that, thinking her behavior was “normal” set me up to think my ex’s behavior was also normal. BUT, even though I’ve learned that both were/are toxic to me. I still have contact with her. I find my interactions with her, invigorating and fueled with knowledge. She’s become “predictable” as she’s gotten older and it helps me bounce my strategies towards my ex off of her, to see how they work. If it causes a rage, I’ve hit my mark. If she laughs me off, I adjust accordingly.
No, I am not one of you, I do have my tendencies towards it(enter the therapists), but my “autism” forces me into the logic/understanding arena, more than my need for control. I also have a melting heart for my children when they are hurt or hug me tightly and tell me I’m an awesome Momma, enter the empathy side. I couldn’t bring myself to purposely hurt them, let alone how she did me.
My mother is the imprisoned monster in my life, head and heart. Knowing that, keeps her where she belongs, even when I interact with her.
Anyway, my point is, maybe even in a narcissistic way, you could learn something from it.
But my understanding is, Sociopaths/narcissists don’t like interacting with each other.
Most narcissists do not realise they are interacting with another narcissist. I interact with some, they have their uses of course, but I never choose one to be my IPPS, give me a delicious empath every time.
There are references to my mother through the blog and the books ‘MatriNarc’ and ‘Little Boy Lost’ will expand in considerable detail.
When will those mentioned books ‘MatriNarc’ and ‘Little Boy Lost’ be available? Can’t find them on Amazon.
Still in writing.
I think I like Dr. “O” – most of this personality disorder boils down to your mother. Oh, Gawd, if only we could get down to the brass tacks of this topic.
Catalyst #2 – Your relationship (or lack of) with your mother. Just as you avoid the topic with Dr. O, to talk about “inconsequential” topics, you turned trying to name the 3 things that made you this way into a game. My hunch is deep down you feel cheated and robbed of knowing what it’s like to have a mom in the sense of the ultimate caregiver. You felt constant rejection by her high expectations and resulting criticisms. Possibly your other siblings didn’t even get the same treatment, you being singled out digging the knife deeper. Possibly she was your mentor in distributing emotional abuse.
Maybe you are right, maybe not. I won’t answer this just yet are there are more articles coming that develop this theme and I feel you will prefer to read them and form your own opinions rather than me give you an answer just yet.
There are no wrong answers to give your doctors. Even just saying 3 nice things or 3 negative things about your mom would be a start. Interestingly, you did not jump to defend your relationship with your mom. Your subconscious is holding on to some hurtful trauma or experience(s) I’m guessing transpired with her exceedingly high expectations placed on you.
If you can go back in your mind to being a small boy, and envision your mom kneeling to be eye level with you the child, what would you want her to know now as the adult? Is there something specific you would tell her to stop doing? She can’t tear your insides up now. Remember there are no wrong answers.
I think I should answer your question as that is the polite thing to do and I am big on politeness. Unfortunately this is a topic I have considerable difficulty with. How about if we start with one positive and one negative?
You have considerable difficulty, yet you opened it up for discussion with your blog? Sure, start with one positive and one negative, but from the perspective as you the child and what you remember. Some of my other comments under “Will I Ever Be Left Alone” are awaiting “moderation”. I hope you will continue to be so polite to respond to those. I’m very interested to see what your answers to those questions will be.
Hello Clarece, thank you for your patience in waiting for my reply. Dr O often tells me that I do not discuss the things that matter and instead I take refuge in interesting but ultimately inconsequential discussions. Nothing I discuss is inconsequential, so it shows just how much she knows doesn’t it? Nevertheless, I do want to impress her so rather than discuss it directly,I have opened it up as per the blog for others to provide their observations. Much as I like it all to be about me, I do also like others to provide their views on their own experiences. I love to absorb knowledge – doing so appeals to my intellect. One positive ; I knew the rules and what to do and not do. One negative ; I did not like the rules.