A Good Man in a Bad Job
I didn’t ask for this you know. I know you did not either but for once let’s not make this about you and let’s talk about me, yes? I never asked to be created so that each and every day I must gather the fuel that is necessary for my existence. Yes, I must eat, I must drink water and I must breathe the air, just as you do, but for me I have another staple requirement of daily living. I must have fuel. Did you choose to always needs food and water? No, you did not. Neither did I. I did not choose to require this fuel either but without it I will cease to exist. What I have created in order to survive in this world will come toppling down and that will be the end of me. How far would you go to eat? At first it is simple enough is it not? You go to the grocery store or you order online from the supermarket and acquire the ingredients to make a meal or receive a pre-cooked one. You chop, you peel, you mash and you stir and you make that meal. A hundred thousand different recipes to choose from. Instead you may remove the packaging, pierce the cling film and pop it in the over or the microwave. Either way you have food, ready to eat and to sustain you. But what if you had no money to acquire this food, how would you quell the rumblings in your stomach? Perhaps you might ask to be given food from neighbours, from food banks or left overs at supermarkets. It is demeaning but you need to eat don’t you, so what does a little pride matter so long as your stomach is filled? However, what if that charity ends? What if the benevolence of friends and neighbours dries up? What would you do then? What if there are no friends and no neighbours? Would you look to survive on berries you find by the roadside, drink the water from a stream? Would that sustain you for long or would you tire of that? Would you scavenge through the bins outside a supermarket for food that has been thrown out but is perfectly edible? Is that stealing? Perhaps not. Would you cope with the stares of pity and disdain from those who saw you surfing a dumpster?
Would you steal from the shops in order to quell the hunger pangs? Snatch a loaf from a bakery, sneak into a house and steal that cooling pie or rifle through the cupboards in order to find something to eat. What if there is no edible food in the dumpster, would you remove the mould and eat what you find, risking illness? What if the supermarkets ran out of food and there was nowhere to steal it from? Would you scavenge from the orchards until that fruit ran out? Would you catch fish or hunt a lamb or grab a chicken in order to cook and eat it over an open fire? What if the usual sources of meat began to vanish, having fallen prey to starving wild animals following the collapse of civilisation, what then? Would you try new sources? Would you, driven by hunger hunt down and eat a sparrow or a robin? How about an owl? Seagull? Would you slaughter a fox in order to eat its meat? Where would you stop? Would you eat another human being in order to survive? When needs must where would you draw the line? How far would you go to feed yourself and your loved ones? Begging, growing you own, stealing, savagery, cannibalism? Do you have a limit or when the chips are down and your stomach is knotted with the agony of starvation would there be no limit? How far would you go? Would you fight another person for a packet of rice? Beat someone up in order to steal their hoard of windfalls? Would you consider their loss of their food source and their injuries an acceptable consequence of your own necessary survival? Would this become collateral damage in the pursuit of survival? Abhorrent as it may sound, I should imagine, when the need really arises, that you would go beyond the unpalatable in order to survive.
Now replace food with the need for fuel and you will understand that I have no choice other than to gather this fuel from different sources and in different ways throughout the course of each day. The consequences which arise may seem regrettable to you but they are purely the result of this need for me to gain fuel. I did not ask to have to do this, but the way I have been created makes it so. In the same way that you would fight to ensure your own survival, rather than curling up and dying in a hole, so must I. Does that make me what would be regarded as a bad person for just doing what I need to in order to exist? I suggest that it does not. I know that what I do has consequences for others. I am not blind nor am I a fool. I understand fully the devastation that I cause as I tear through someone else’s life like a whirlwind, sucking everything in, hurling it about and then discarding it broken and shattered. I have heard the complaints, the stories, the recollections and the accounts. I have heard the cries of dismay, the wails of misery, the screams of terror and the slow sobs of pain. I know what is caused by my actions but what choice do I have? I do not set out to achieve these things but they must always arise as a consequence of what I must do.
I feel no guilt nor remorse. I am devoid of those emotions. Another consequence of the way I have been created. I feel no shame in these actions, no pity for those who suffer from my behaviours and no sense of empathy for those who are remorselessly cut down by my machinations. I am not burdened by such emotions so I do not toss and turn at night, I do not have my sleep peppered by nightmares of torment, I do not sit in anguish and seek absolution for everything I have done and everything that I am to do. Those concepts are not applicable to me. What I do is invite you to understand me. I want you to understand what I am, what I must do and what arises from this and if you were in my shoes then you would do the same. This does not make me a bad person does it? I am a good man who is having to do a bad job. Yes?
145 thoughts on “A Good Man in a Bad Job”
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Agreed.
Sh*t happens sometimes, Tudor. Life is life.
As long as I am causing the shit, it’s all good.
Well described your need of energy, Tudor. But, of course, it is NOT an excuse for any form of abuse.
Imagine, you finally found your real “one”, your personal sort of endless gold fuel, your jackpot, but…she was being catched and eaten literally by someone. I doubt you’ll be glad to hear “It wasn’t my fault, I was starved, I had no choice, it is a natural thing to want to eat” excuses. Will you congratulate that person and say “Oh, I see your point, bro. No offense is taken. Life is life. I hope she tasted good…”?
Of course not. I am slightly perplexed why someone would be trying to catch my IPPS and eat her though!!?
Ha ha!
That’s impossible for two reasons:
1. This kind of IPPS doesn’t exist (only if she’s a Fairy transforming him into a normal man);
2. That’s something surprising even for you, HG: someone ill enough (maybe a Dragon, ha ha…) to do something like that.
But we may consider a psychopath (like Ted Bundy) needing fuel and targeting your IPPS (I really don’t want that for someone, just hypothetically speaking) and killing her (taking your golden source away). That would be a really sad scenario. I can’t refrain from thinking: would HG Tudor get a revenge or would he back down?
Maybe you dont need all the millions out there…
A very twisted view trying to equate a biological need for survival to an Ns pleasure drawn from enacting emotional vampirism and revelry in psychological manipulations. No one *needs* to use others in such a way, they simply want to.
I love the strength of the lovely ladies and gents that share on here. You truly help in many ways. Sometimes, I am not in a frame of mind to share due to the enormity of the affect of the posts on a particular given day. In fact, at times I need to step away from the blog for some time to regroup.
I do, however, value each and every input shared by all. I believe, it is often as enlightening to read as HG’s posts. At the very least they often simply resonate with thoughts/feelings/observations that I struggle to hold on to, due to the influence of N’s both past and present in my life. Some of these affects are indeed similar to having memories etched into my flesh, not unlike an unwanted tattoo and become an actual part of me that I can not remove. Only difference being they have triggers attached to them when “seen”. Emotional scars run very deep and the mind is a complex organ, not to mention our intense ability to feel and take on our surroundings; for some of us in an extremely unhealthy way as a child..all this coupled with an intense yearning to love and be loved, and to seek validation from others amongst such intense manipulation, is simply soul shattering for many; or in the very least, chips away at one’s very essence. Leaving one disillusioned at one’s place in the world, and faith in others.
Ladies (and gents) I salute your strength, hope and resolve; especially when you feel it has “left the building” and are unsure of it’s return.
Despite your reasons for doing so, HG, I am still glad that you share your knowledge. I am grateful that its here, for those who wish to seize the power it holds for them.
I believe this is a place of healing for each of us. May we all lean on each other in whatever ways we need. Blessed be.❤
Nikitia the problem with feeling pain for the narc and being open minded regarding a narc is that they view that as a sign of weakness and will prey upon it. They view it as a sign of your inferiority.
Being able to punish a narc however, I imagine they have some respect for that?
It may be begrudging respect D but we would never ordinarily admit it and use your impertinence as a method of punishing you.
I have difficulties to understand the answer. Sorry I saw it after I posted it.
What do you mean? I would also get punished??
That might be true D . I was told that during the first separation I had from my exhusband. I was totally in love with him but terrified he raged all the time and punched holes in the walls for no reason. As I could not live in fear I left . I shared my situation to some people at that time few friends and my mom and all told me that he saw me weak etc etc and that I should punish and bring him inder control…
I dont know if it would have worked as I obviously did not do as they said. They did not and still dont know NPD exists so the suggestioms were based on his attitude.
Maybe HG can tell us what could have been the outcome if I would have done otherwise. ….
If you sought to punish me then I would have seen that as a criticism. My fury would be ignited. I would have potentially withdrawn but if the situation was on where it was just the two of us then I might have subjected you to a silent treatment or gone on the offensive through any number of manipulations – breaking things, stopping you going out, triangulating you with a new prospect – many different ways of responding and in turn punishing you.
Because we empaths and codependants, we have it easier than narcissists, Ive seen it from the readers in the blog alot, we have just to learn to move on, HG has even with his books given the tools, NC, escape etc, and look for a new person which will provide true love,
Narcissists though, do not have it that easy. They will have to endlessly continue to look for fuel. The lack of it is equivalent to our pain.
We did not ask for the pain we were inflicted with but neither did they ask to be like they are.
Below is the translation of my nowadays favorite song. It is from a German singer whom I belive to be a special human being. He is for me like this kind of person who has a light inside. Andreas Bourani. “HEy”
The lyrics are beautiful and I want to share them with the ones who participated in the discussion yesterday. Because life is not easy as a narcissist and neither as an empath/codependant.
Hey
When life remains silent about everything
Still ows you an answer
Seems like it’s not shouting anything but “No” at you
It’ll pass
When the point of everything just doesn’t show
Disguised, it’s unrecognizable
The only thing that helps for sure, is time
It’ll pass, it’ll pass
Hey, don’t be so hard on yourself
It’s okay when you’re falling
Even when everything breaks
It’ll go on for you
Hey, don’t be so hard on yourself
Even when nothing is holding you back
You just have to move on
Don’t stop and stand on the shards
When the fear is pushing you back
There’s not enough left to fight back
You just don’t know better at the moment
Then stay
It’ll pass
When every day resembles the same
And a fire is giving way for habit
When loving is called fighting right now
Then stay
It’ll pass, it’ll pass
Hey, don’t be so hard on yourself
It’s okay when you’re falling
Even when everything breaks
It’ll go on for you
Hey, don’t be so hard on yourself
Even when nothing is holding you back
You just have to move on
You just have to move on
Nikita, it’s clear from your posts that you are a very empathic and kind hearted person and feel the pain of the narcissist as much as that of their victims. But I think that to say that those that have become entangled with narcssists have it easier than the Ns is a step too far. It is inevitable that we will all base our understanding primarily on our own first hand experiences while also incorporating information from other sources such as the personal stories found on the growing number of resources on the web including blogs like this (granted this one is unusual since we get something of the Ns eye view)..
But there are an awful lot of people reading this blog and those that contribute comments (that are surprisingly light hearted in most cases) represent only a tiny fraction of them. Having run that survey recently I was surprised to receive over two hundred responses. And while the questions were intended to get at some pretty basic patterns, quite a lot of people used the comments boxes to provide additional information beyond yes/no and for this long. I think we can take it for granted that almost everyone that responded has experienced emotional/psychological abuse at some level at least but I was surprised at the number that have been subjected to physical abuse as well – almost 60%!. It’s now accepted that emotional abuse can have effects that are as far reaching as physical abuse in many ways but a double whammy is extra sickening I think. While thankfully it was just a tiny fraction, some have experienced really extreme violence which they described in more detail – and I’m talking proper nightmarish stuff – really brutal stuff. Some have been financially ruined as well. Some of us can move on as you say but others end up in financial tatters, are left with long term physical damage or ailments, PTSD, complex PTSD and other forms of brain rewiring (really!) as a result of trauma which can take years to rectify, if at all. Most of us commenting away on here have probably got off comparatively lightly in terms of long term effects but others certainly haven’t and they should be kept in mind as well.
I can’t report on the survey comments in a systematic way since not everyone that had such experiences will have described them but I am very grateful to those who felt able and inclined to share them. I may give one or two examples but although they are anonymous I can’t know if those respondents would be comfortable if they were passed on. So my point is that I don’t think it’s safe to say that the Ns have it worse in their pursuit of “true love”, especially given the range of experiences out there, even among the readers of this one blog and it’s comments.
I’ll just say here that I’ll get the report on the survey results together very soon. I used a free version of the survey tools, hence only 10 questions, and the responses were not downloadable so I had to input all the data manually: 10 questions x 200+ responses equals over 2000 data points so it took a while and to be honest I needed to take a break after doing all that. I’ve done some basic collation but will finish it off and pass it on as soon as I’ve got it written up in a friendlier form than just a bunch of numbers.
Thamks for your words K. Yes maybe I dont have the full picture then.
Its alot of pain for everybody .. but I thought well at least someday this will end.
But its very true I was not thinking of financially broken people not PTST which stays forever I read from my dear blogger Sheila. I forgot this aspect 😢. So we are all in the same struggling pot and nobody had it easier.
Some readers are like ” i am over this, stay NC and Im ready to begin my life” … I of course feel happy for them, so I was mainly talking to the people who normally post something. But I do believe it is then like you say. Look forward to the info and thanks for taking the time. If you need help let me know. In case You need Im pretty good at excel, or measuring medias and distributions and I think I still have the mini tab application in my working computer although I dont use it in ages.. But let me know in case
Thanks for the offer Nikita! But it’s all on SPSS and it’s mostly just a case of writing the results in a way that is at least vaguely engaging. Though the numbers speak for themselves of course.
Ok ok SPSS … So minitab is a joke then 😂😂😂. Look forward to the results.
k
You got the point. I feel the narcissist pain, and when they are my partner then I do feel it very strongly….
Its seems like they are bound to look for fuel their whole lives, I am bound to feel their pain for the rest of my life…
I am not complaining no… It is like it is and it makes my life …. Complicated lets say it like this. If I concetrate alit and in the right mood … Sometimes I can see through them even…
Some days I just do t want to be here, other days I want to destroy his life as he’s destroyed mine . So no I also do not feel that the narc has the path of true love harder tgan empaths if I’m honest I’d say they have it easier.
As they have no feelings unlike us and have no trouble dealing with the pain left behind. My ex narc may as well had physically killed me as he’s killed every other part if my being.
Freedom Yes I see your pain, and I am so sorry. I remember back in November it was still the case. I know its very hard to move on. I too struggle with pain. Empaths and also normal people feel the pain of loosing what you had for very long time.
But believe me you have to let go of that hate. Even if he destroyed your life. Forgive and you will see how all the energies around you will change and good things will come.
What I meant that I probably failed to write was that if you take on one side a broken empath/CoD and on the other side a narcissist suffering already suffering
From lack of fuel. Its probably more difficult to him to reach a good level than what it is going to be for the empath… Its my guess.. But difficult to say as pain is pain….
All the best Freedom
Freedom,
You and I have a similar story….my N1 and your last N discarded us….even though we intitiated the breakup….and then got married to the next woman….
Freedom….the only way I got over it was by moving on w my own life! You sound like a lovely woman….don’t let him strip you of that beautiful quality….. Forgive him and let it go….it’s still going to hurt….but forgiveness helps you move on! *hugs*
Hi T,
Thank you for your kind words.
I’m attempting to move forward with my life it’s very much 1 step forward 3 back.
Our stories are very similar on being discarded but I didn’t initiated it ( well not knowingly anyway)
I am not willing to forgive him and that’s a totally out if my character but unfortunately I don’t feel he deserves my forgiveness.
Out of interest is your narc 1 still married to the target he chose after you.
I find it so hard when I would have done anything for him that he would discard me so cruelly and suddenly. Especially when his job is only temp in India and he will have to return to the uk at some point.
Hi Freedom,
Yes, N1 is still married to his poor wife. If I were to believe Fakebook, you’d think he was Prince Charming. I know better…I’ve known him since high school…
He married her NYE of 2012/13. (we were to marry by end of 2012…another slap in the face to me from him)
I didn’t want to break up with N1…but it was obvious he wasn’t happy with me the way I am. I would have had to change my faith, politics, hair style, my style in general, throw away my makeup, and become a mindless zombie). To be honest, Freedom. He just wasn’t that special. I loved him my whole life…since I was a teen…and that teen would have changed everything for him. However, we had a 17 year silent treatment (initiated by him), and I became a grown woman in all of those years…and although he loved the confident T I had become….he being who he is….just had to break me…or try to…..he almost did.
Forgiving him was for me. I couldn’t move on with my life if I had not done so.
I do pray that he tries with her….I hope he can find happiness…I know how he grew up….I also know he wants to be a better man….he’s just messed up.
She is a Super Empath…and I think she might have the patience to overlook his abusive defenses…and love the man he wants to be.
Forgiveness is for YOU, Freedom!….He doesn’t deserve it, Freedom. You do!!! Moving on is possible once we forgive.
*hugs*
I agree. You don’t see forums, blogs and support groups for Narcs to cope from the Empaths who just loved them too much. Just on to another day of harvesting fuel…
No we certainly don’t see blogs and support groups for narcs. I’m also sure a narc had never contemplated ending their lives either.
NikitaLondon I’m sorry there is no way I can ever forgive him even my empathic tendency will not stretch that far.
I’m afraid I will only rest when his inner demon consumes him, hope it destroys him. Not very empathic today. It’s a year since he left me at the airport declaring his love for me promising we’d be together soon and he will miss me till we are together again.
I can very well feel your pain Freedom when I imagine this and what you felt when he got married. I do.
i still believe there is a way that your happiness will come differently than with the destruction of somebody else. This does not change your situation.
I dont see how this will bring you the closure you need but you know better what is best for you.
In general Freedom this does not happen and their demons dont consume them and if when they reach old age.
Look my 3Ns also hurt me and the ones before me and now they have new ones and at least them are very happy. I dont know if the ladies but N1 and N2 enjoy their lives. I dont know anytjing about N3 but he would get a new woman faster than the other 2.
i feel happy for them, because if they would be consumed by their demons, my situation would be the same… So I just forget and go on with my life. Besides I would grow old waiting for that to happen… Because it does not happen. They always find people like me and you to help them before this happens. But I do know narcissit injury does put them in a bad shape. But as they are not stuck with all our emotions then they recover very fast when they manage to find good supply. Its not as easy as HG says ( sorry there HG but its N3s words, upper narc like you) but its certainly achievable before the demon appears. Its the same as us only they recover easily. They dont need forums in general.
I hope you do find the way to let go of the pain to a level where its bearable.
Ouch Freedom! Rough day indeed. My heart goes out to you!
Thanks MLACLARECE,
Think he’s turning me into a narc.
Don’t think of it that way. Think of it as we are developing a thicker skin to protect our hearts. Hugs!
Oh same here Nikita. For 7 years my patience, compassion and all the rest of it was endless and unconditional. I did absolutely all I could to protect him even when he caused me considerable harm. It was a kind of madness though.
And it’s only just over a month of no contact following a further year of crap after we separated. All the rationality and objectivity in the world won’t guarantee that I won’t ever melt again. I had to borrow some of HGs tips in the revenge book (thanks HG) and add a few of my own to piss him off so badly and (most importantly) give him the impression that I’m positively dangerous in terms of my potential for damaging his reputation that has withdrawn. I still felt bad about it though and sad that I had hurt him. Show me a similarly malignant narc that I have no attachment to though, and I’d happily break his legs.
Ohhh K. Youre funny but I cant agree with the last part.
On the other side it seems you have managed pretty ok… Or start to manage…
Good for you.
The not melting again will take many years I would say… Good luck there. 😃
Ohhhh K, I like your style! If you ever have some pent up frustration I’ll send you my Narc’s email if he ever hoovers again.
Thanks Clarece!! And it would be a pleasure. Just give me a bit of background and a list of his weak spots and I’ll have at him with a literary lump hammer 🙂 😀
So the discussion yesterday was very interesting. We all have in common being hurt. Including HG, as we have seen the painful environment as kid ( his mom gave love but her own type of love) made him that he needs fuel to survive. He and all the people who suffer NPD in this world.
And I still wish for them there is a space in this world where we can all live together, because although we all have beem hurt, it is not fair that because you have a different enviornment as a kid and you develop this condition, you are then automatically denied the possibility of a happy life. This is my thinking although I still struggle from NPD sad memories and pain in my heart.
Nice Sunday everybody ☀️
Thanks K for the break down on empathy vs narc perceptions of empathy. It was very good!
It’s beyond me how anyone can live without feeling empathy.
Not being able to be moved enough to cry at a movie, a piece of art, music.
Not understanding loss in an empathetic way.
Not hearing a baby cry and feeling the instinct to pick them up and feeling joy when they stop crying.
Not looking into someone’s eyes and wanting to protect them from all the hurt in the world.
Not witnessing someone cry and wanting to cry yourself.
Imagine not feeling that? What would be the point? Even worse, imagine wanting to perform and lie all the time like you do. I’d rather die.
I don’t understand how most narcissists don’t realise something is very different about them when they compare themselves to others. Would you not ask yourself, “How come they can feel that way and I can’t?” “How come everyone is irritated by me and finds me overbarring?” “How come I don’t have friends for emotional support like others?” “How come my ex’s have all said they can’t be themselves around me?”
How can you not realise you are a pain in the arse?
This is because you are looking at it through your world view D and not ours. Imagine being able to appreciate a movie, piece of art of music and wanting to do the same and do better because the adulation that arises would be magnificent. Imagine how powerful a driving force that would be. Imagine not understanding loss so you avoid being paralysed by grief and hampered by this loss. Imagine not falling for the baby’s attention seeking and helping it achieve a degree of self-sufficiency by not needing to cry because there is actually nothing wrong with it. Imagine being free of the burden of having to help people and protect them which stops you getting on with what you need to do. Imagine being able to see someone crying but remain unaffected by this emotion so you can focus on what needs doing rather than being hindered by the emotion which will skew your logic and cause an emotional decision to be made rather than the right one.
What’s the point? The point is we are different to you. We need fuel. If we were hindered by emotions then we would not get the fuel. It is how we have adapted in order to function. It is a needs must. How many people who have lost their arms adapt to use their feet as hands? These people don’t have arms and hands so they have adapted. We don’t have those emotions such as empathy because those emotions do not assist us in respect of what we need to achieve.
Many of our kind do not realise something is different because they do not have the awareness. Furthermore, in respect of your questions, we don’t find that everyone is irritated by us, on the contrary not only are many people drawn to us and find us interesting and captivating but those that respond to us in a negative fashion are regarded as it is their fault and their problem and nothing to do with us (blame-shifting). We are not the pain in the arse, you are. You aren’t doing what you should be doing and therefore you are at fault. It is never our fault. How can you not realise you are a pain the arse by failing to be a fully-functioning appliance? You (not you specifically D but in the sense of people on the other side of us_) are intelligent, self-aware people yet you cannot work it out that you are letting us down and causing this devaluation? How can you not? It is a question of perspective D.
Better said impossible. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
For me it’s about balance. I know how to give emotional support which requires disconnecting from others pain in order to do that effectively. I do it because I know it’s necessary for them that I do it. Due to the line of work I’m in, I can’t be emotionally involved as nothing would get done and no one would be helped. But compassion is a motivating factor.
I can also disconnect from a childs pain if I knew it meant it would help them to do so. But it would not be out of feeling nothing for them.
I can also be motivated by recognition to work harder. If my boss said I’ve done a good job than that can be motivation. If a client says I’ve done a good job than that could be motivation. Compliments are nice and motivating but receiving them doesn’t dominate my life and decisions. I can make decisions outside the need for fuel.
I would rather to able to relate to others
Emotionally and balance that with logical reasoning.
“Imagine not falling for the baby’s attention seeking and helping it achieve a degree of self-sufficiency by not needing to cry because there is actually nothing wrong with it.”.
I hope you’re not a parent HG, or will ever be. Babies are NOT designed to be self sufficient. Evolution dictates that that’s not the strategy for us. Fish yes, snakes yes, mammals no and certainly not us. We need a really long time for that massive brain of ours to grow to maturity and to learn a phenomenal amount before we are properly equipped to deal with the extraordinarily complex social world into which we are born. Your strategy will result in Ns like you or codependents like your sister and I’m not sure that you’d get to choose which. I can see clear advantages in having the capacity to avoid that outcome. Evolution loves diversity but on the whole,the norm represents the most successful strategy. If your way was the most successful way then Cluster Bs would make up the majority and they don’t.
I have made it clear on numerous occasions that I am not a parent nor will I ever be. I referred to “a degree of self-sufficiency”. I am aware that a baby cannot feed itself nor even walk (unlike say a foal) from birth. Perhaps I was not clear since I was putting it in the context of the Ugandan orphanage story and I posed the question that if there is nothing wrong with the baby (i.e. it is clothed, warm, fed, winded, changed, had attention, had some bonjela rubbed on the gums and so on etc) surely it is acceptable for the baby to learn to self-soothe and therefore gain a degree of self-sufficiency? That was the question I was asking K. I appreciate your point concerning we need plenty of time to deal with the complex social world that exists. I am not suggesting a baby would always be ignored but rather I wondered whether it would do any harm leaving a baby to gain a degree of self-sufficiency by self soothing.
I understood your question H.G. and what you meant.
While on the baby subject, how do you handle dating single moms? Or do you exclude them from your dating profile, unless maybe the kids are older or grown? If you do date women with children, do you seek to make them part of the construct and try to form a relationship to have them on your side; or are you jealous of the time they get with their mom?
I know you are extremely self-aware of your capabilities and that is why you consciously chose to not have kids, but how did you avoid that natural primal instinct for man “to plant his seed”? (So to speak). It’s a good thing but I guess you could of fallen into the trap of having H.G. Junior II, and viewed him as an extension of yourself.
Good question. I have not been involved with many ladies who are single mothers. IN the few cases where I did I charmed the children as I did the mother. I did find that they got in the way at times and yes that created jealousy on my part. Well I haven’t avoided the primal instinct because I still engage in sexual congress but do not procreate. Yes I might have viewed a child as my extension but I formed the early view that he or she would be a hindrance to my endeavours, hence the decision not to have children. As has been mentioned before, a win/win all round. I am interested you mention HG Junior II. Where is HG Junior I then? Do you know something that I do not?
Well clearly I know you have sex. You have a whole book dedicated to it. Lol I had meant that scientists claim that men have a natural mating instinct to want to procreate. But you answered my question that you were self aware enough to override that and not go down that path.
Did my earlier comments in that post answer the question posed to me about the self-soothing concept and also building trust & intimacy?
Lastly, you are H.G. Tudor #1 (the one and only). If a little blue eyed baby boy followed, he would be H.G. Tudor the second. No?
Yes your comments did answer my question thank you. Ah but you used “Junior” Clarece, I am Senior (although not a senior I hasten to add) therefore your label suggested two juniors.
A toddler maybe, and only when it’s pretty likely that it’s no more than manipulation or boundary testing. But not a baby as it’s near impossible to tell when it’s distress is genuine despite there being no detectable or anticipated.cause, especially if it’s emotional. It’s a bit too early for self soothing and might result in it learning that its emotional needs won’t be met.
But sure, the Ugandan orphanage context that you mention is a different matter. Lots of babies and limited resources, not least time. They can only do what they can. But as I’m sure you know, orphanages are not known for producing the most emotionally balanced of people. Self sufficiency and good mental or emotional health aren’t necessarily the same thing after all. And we’ve already talked about how things can be in Africa remember.
I take your point concerning it is impossible to tell when a baby’s distress is genuine even though there is no detectable cause. The thought coalesced in my mind and I was curious to know. Now I know.
Ohhh toddlers are masters in manipulation. They have read all of HGs books.
Ha ha.
Sincere apologies. My comments looked as though they had been wiped but only because I’d been logged out but didn’t realise. It’s been fun today. I’m sure I speak for many of us in saying that I appreciate you tolerating all the cockiness.
Tsk !
Wow…..so you do do those things
Wow. I have an observation. In the last few posts we have seen the silent treatment, followed now by mini silent treatment, devaluation and triangulation (not referring to Niki). All en masse. Phew. I feel anxious and hurt like we messed up and disappointed HG. Which we like all fuel (even minor supplies it seems) inevitably would do.
I agree with your thesis here and have encountered N’s who whither into nothing, when denied their NS, in a serious and sad way. I don’t know what I would do to get food if I were starving, which is why I keep extra supplies at home. And N’s do the same with fuel. Biggest stockpiles needed for old age when one can no longer procure as easily LOL.
My ex narc obviously didn’t know me at all then as I would never have discarded him. I think our issues arose due to him introducing the geographical distance he moved continents to take a job for a couple if years. He obviously now knowing the need for fuel he couldn’t survive with the distance and secured a new intimate.
He did say I was the best friend he’d ever had and never wanted to lose me. What he meant was I was a fantastic supply if fuel he wanted to move down to friend category as he needed to secure the closer the supply. Such a shame 😓
You are working it out Freedom.
Bingo!
Their mask(s) ALWAYS drops. And they can never follow-through or sustain anything long-term- EVER – unless it provides them with fuel.
Actions do speak volumes….that is why I am not so sure the idealization stage is ALL FAKE…most N’s…unlike HG and Dr. Vankin are NOT aware of what they are….they are playing it the way they feel it at that time….I personally feel that it’s not until they feel they may be abandoned….they are honest in their feelings….they won’t take a chance on “losing or being left”…..they then start the games and they will bring about their own abandonment if necessary…..and then keep us on a string….that way…they never lose us…..
Ladies, think of all of ther “players” you know…they conquer and disappear…..N’s CAN’T LET GO….this explains our N’s odd behavior when we decided to go no contact….
Most normal folks don’t have to go no contact post breakup…..they know how to let go in a healthy way….N’s lack the emotional maturity to do so. Just my humble opinion 🙂
Key phrase, “letting go in a healthy way”. So, so true. Most N’s don’t know what they are, so that is why it took me so long to accept it’s all an illusion in the beginning.
But deep down they need our supply so badly, and in their childlike way they keep reappearing to see what the reaction will be. Part of closure for us is a finite ending so it can be healthy.
MindFuckery…the whole post was a set up😉
You’re strangely quiet on this one HG. No responses since the earliest posts. Unusual. It’s been a fun one though.
K are you telling HG we dont need him anymore??? 😂😂😂😂
I’m not telling him that but interesting that you think that I might have been. I see you’ve started mourning already. So many tears. You’ll be ok Nikita.
I mourn forever K … It never goes away completely but mainly I keep the good memories. It does not come to my mind so often… But the blogs does awaken in me memories and different kinds of emotions, depending on the subject of the posting.
I joke alot also… This one was a joke…
Of course we need HG. He is the king of the blog. ( no joke here) 😃
I noticed that. Maybe he was not pleased with the majority reaction on this one? Only he can say.
I have been watching my football team so during the occasional break in play I have moderated the messages but have not had time to respond,although I have watched everyone’s opinions unfold with interest. I am with friends for the evening and have found a gap to provide this short response. I have been fuelled through the day, which is clearly necessary after the malevolence I have witnessed towards me in the course of today’s interesting debate. I have enjoyed seeing your views expounded as I have sat in my fuelled eyrie. Thank you for your fascinating and erudite comments.
Looking forward to your return and contributions!!!!
Definitely peeved.
You are a Narcissist….or is this all show? New to blogging and I have to say that your response made me jump a little. Scared me. Like shit he knows me???
Narcissistic sociopath. And yes, I know.
This post really takes it home HG.
In true N fashion, you MUST see yourself as a good man.
FEAR- False Evidence Appearing Real.
Chronic Deception and using falsehood to manipulate others and especially making someone believe that they matter to you when you know they don’t -especially those who trust you or have given so freely to you …is bad.
Bad to the bone.
But, still …you’re the only N I love to hate.
In HG’s book, “Escape”…he lays it all out there….it is very simple. N’s are like babies..they will cry and throw fits if they are not paid enough attention…..I think most of them didn’t get enough attention during the important years….and too much attention and doting in the years after that…..remember this baby analogy and you’ll always know what to expect from your N…..THEY NEED ALL OF OUR ATTENTION ALL OF THE TIME….and if they sense you’re about to leave or just simply getting tired of giving 24/7 (they are very intuitive about these things…they know it before we even know it)….they can and WILL discard you out of self preservation
Okay here I founf it again and is what I mean with accelerated death.
Bad eating, addicitions and loss of self control can eventually put a person in a very bad shape as to find death faster than if he or she would have not incurred in such behaviours. And I am speaking for all Ns in this world not just strong, intelligent and beautiful HG. Hope the link works.
http://youtu.be/CLpqw_LFTCs
I think my sperm donor (father) is a narcissist in zombie mode.
I don’t speak to him though. But I did very briefly and he told me he hallucinates while drunk and that the devil is after him.
That’s their problem, not ours;-)
It’s when WE finally let go of exploring their twisted minds and focus in our own lives and issues that we can move on!
https://graceformyheart.wordpress.com/2014/10/17/the-mystery/
Admitted, it has to ‘click’ in our heads before we can break free – and that can take a loooong time:-)
But when we get there, we are *narc-proof* 😃
https://relationshipedia.me/2016/04/14/a-sneak-peak-inside-the-upcoming-book-i-am-free/
HG’s Blog has been a piece of the puzzle that had to be put together to get to that place of relative peace and inner freedom of “Observe, Don’t Absorb!” – so thanks for that.
Good luck everybody! 😘
Totally agree Alice x
KnowingtheNarcissist, when you are ripping people’s lives apart, going where you’re not wanted, all to get the fuel you “need”, you’re neither a good man nor a bad man…you’re the American government waging useless wars in the Middle East. And as I write this from my Brooklyn, NY, USA home, I’m ashamed of my government for waging wars all because of oil; I’m ashamed of us for inserting ourselves in Middle East (if they wanted American-style democracy, they’d have it without us bombing them into the Stone Age and ramming it down their throats).
Okay Ive made myself the object of laughter today. Im not so good at writing and this is not my native lang in addition. I was of course not referring to those 24 hours, but of lack of NS in general, the original posting….
I wasn’t laughing at you niki!
I was laughing at the idea of a narc crying on the floor, clutching his chest “fuel ergh ergh ergh fuel. I need fuel!”
……
Someone kisses him on the forehead and he’s like
“Oh god! Thank you, oh god!”
😂😂😂
You are indeed funny… Its getting funny … the postings not the fact of an N missing NS.
I’m just now reading all these posts and I’m cracking up 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
NikitaLondon no one is laughing at you. We were only laughing at the thought of someone thinking they’ll die due to lack if admiration. All of us have been hurt by narc and bee to support each other x
😃😃 thanks.
My heart has been also crushed Freedom. I have also felt like you unbearable pain, cried my self to sleep and can sometimes still feel it.. The pain that dorms and wakes up from time to time… I have never been discarded but it has not made it better for me. Believe me.
I still cry myself to sleep some nights. Especially when memories are triggered. I was discarded very cruelly but the pain is no less when we’ve been deceived 😔
I found this tweet that I liked alot.
Dear Ex….when you see me, I want you to recognize what you had, regret what you’ve lost, and realize what you’re never getting back.
Its inspiring isnt it?? 😂😂
I like it 😊😊NikitaLondon
Accelerated death from no contact?
😊😀😁😃😄😉😍🙌👐👏👌✌
Don’t want to release my earlier posts HG? Hmmm, I didn’t realise that you did that kind of thing.
Good. I’m glad you don’t do that kind of thing.
Shame you’re not qualified enough to get a better job. Poor you.
K, thanks for reminding us of the damage these types cause. PTSD, Depression, Suicide tendency and other psychological problems that can years to recover /heal from.
Come on now! Let’s not fall for the flowery rhetoric that populates HG world. Our biology dictates that we need food and water for survival. But without ‘fuel’ you won’t die HG, just as the likes of Jennifer Lopez will not die if her surroundings are not all white and the carpets ironed. All it means is that you would have to deal with your demons without your many crutches, and that’s frightening to you…but hardly fatal. It may feel that way but even you know this is just another of your many illusions/delusions. Everyone has fears but most know that dealing with them is primarily their responsibility and are not so needy and entitled that they recruit an army of helpers to do the job for them. Exploitation of others keeps you in the manner to which you have become accustomed – propped up and superior – but it’s no more than a brattish indulgence which, as you know, you are able to feed because you lack certain constraints as a result of certain psychological deficits (and pleeaase don’t glorify them in any response to this post – too monotonous).
.
“Oh did you hear the news? That HG guy died last week”.
“Oh really! What of?”
“A lack of attention and admiration apparently. And it seems the final straw was that he couldn’t make his girlfriend cry.”
“Oh that’s tragic”
Not in a playful frame of mind today
K seriously. Its not a joke. Its not funny. An N that lacks fuel, does get into serious trouble. Its not funny at all. Sorry for being direct but I experienced it from somebody near me. And eventually yes. It kills them, not in a way a massive stroke will kill you but due to the consequences yes, it can mean an accelerated death.
Ah I have to add before there is a misunderstanding. I dont justify Narcs hurting people. Not at all. I was also hurt very much. But I am just factual and fair when I do highlight that the lack of supply does bring serious health and mental implications.
And the effects they have on their victims are just as serious and also can result in long term illness and psychological and emotional breakdowns, even suicide. Most of the time the narc will walk away without batting an eyelid, or worse despising their weakness.
No, no sympathy for a fuel depleted narc from me. Not even a droplet
Yes K the effects are the same to the hurt victim. Their lack of supply or the hurt left behind in the search of supply. Its all more or less in the same context.
That is tragically true so STOP the BS. Grow up N and don’t cry when you find yourself alone and with nothing because of your behavior.
I wont be alone, I know that, you see there will always be those who have no idea, millions of them, all out there. Nor do I cry. I’ve nothing to cry about.
Many go to prison and are locked down in isolation. How do they cope?
If isolated then with next to no fuel they will not be able to cope.
Think I’m in the same mindset as you K. Our empathy is running a little low today.
HG is a good writer and has helped me understand my ex narc. However as an empath I need to address my demons that have caused me much damage and probably the cause of my dances with narcs. I totally agree with you k it’s our responsibility to deal with the demons as is it the narcs responsibility to deal with theirs. The problem is they think why should I when I can just get fuel and destroy others as they see others as disposable commodities.
NikitaLondon I don’t feel the narcs psychological mind is anymore damage than a codependent they have to face their demons as do empaths. They just need help the problem at the centre is they don’t want help. They are fine as try feel no pain to the destruction they leave in their wake. Us empaths need to see this for our own survival.
Freedom, I agree and it doesn’t take at all away from our empathetic natures having this opinion.
I almost blew out my morning coffee that made me laugh so hard! (About cause of death). We’re on the same page today for sure!
That is very funny. I mean that sincerely….made me laugh out loud.
Tbh I should have realised he was severely lacking in the empathy department when he referred to his cat as “it” instead of “she” 💔
I think the only “good” a narc does is when they slip up and confess how they honestly feel or should I say how they honestly do-not-feel!
My narc questioned me about love once and asked me if I feel like I love him all the time? I said yes. And it was like he could not comprehend it!
He was like “oh! I don’t know if I feel that way all the time sometimes I don’t feel anything” something to that effect.
So my body language changed and he noticed my distress and said “now that I feel you pulling away, my feelings for you have come back again!” -_-
“Good” “bad” is also subjective.
They don’t feel empathy or guilt, you may not want to call that “bad” but it’s definitely not good!
I was shocked when HG told me my narc doesn’t feel empathy. I found it very hard to comprehend that, not feeling empathy, how is that even possible? I understood it with psychopaths because they don’t need others. But narcs need others so I did not understand how they could not relate to others. How can you live like that?
I was like “no! My narc cries he wasn’t violent, it can not be!”
But I’ve accepted that it’s true.
I don’t believe they can coexist peacefully with us. If you don’t feel guilt or empathy, then you hurt people and afterwards you bounce along and keep it moving, like its all normal… you may compare yourself to other people and realise you weren’t “meant” to hurt them because that’s frowned upon by others, but you don’t care. There’s no peace to be had with someone like that.
Mine did a very similar thing. He told me that sometimes he loves me and sometimes he doesn’t. Before I realised what he was, I thought he was just playing games as he was constantly engaged in a power struggle with me. But I remember that a couple of times when we were engaged in relationships ‘discussions’ I would say, “look, if you love me, why don’t you just get it out and use it”. Blank expression, no comprehension.
But let me guess K, when critically challenged on it he’d be like “of course I love you!! Maybe it’s you who in fact doesn’t love me!! Just admit it, you never loved me!”
-_-
And then they try and get you to write a melodramatic speech about why you love them.
The truth, is they are right! What is there to really love?
An illusion. We never really loved them because they are nothing. They might as well be dead tbh. We loved who we thought they were.
No D, I don’t recall him doing that exactly. Very near the beginning of the relationship he did ask me why I loved him. I was older than him (still am :)) and had a PhD (still do :)) and so I thought this was insecurity on his part. It might have been information mining, however, in order to know what sort of things are appropriate to cite as reasons for loving someone but I think it was his self loathing at work.
Later I realised that he genuinely didn’t believe that I loved him all the time (I did! It was through him that I learned I could do unconditional love in fact) and that this was because he certainly didn’t and couldn’t imagine that other people were so different from him. I suspect that he didn’t try to turn the tables on me in the way you describe because it would have resulted in my understanding too much about him. What he did do, though, was make it clear that he interpreted all of the support I gave him (financial, emotional, intellectual) as entirely self serving. Anything I did for the sake of the relationship, even where sacrifices on my part were in your face evident, was self serving because, after all, I wanted the relationship. A twisted but effective logic unfortunately.
He simply can’t work with the idea that people can do things entirely for another’s sake because that is something that he could never do himself.
In psychology it is understood that we all work with something called a ‘theory of mind’ (unless we have deficits like autism) when interacting with others. We use our theory of mind to interpret and predict other’s behaviour based on an understanding that like us, their observable behaviour is driven by things like beliefs, needs, wants etc. and emotional states. This allows us to infer what is going on in another’s mind. For example, you can probably guess that when you walk in on HG and he hurriedly pockets his mobile, he’s probably texting with a secondary source and doesn’t want you to know about it. You can read his mind without actually being in it by observing his behaviour and coupling that with what you know about what motivates phone hiding behaviour and other information you have about HG. We all use what we know about what drives our own behaviour and can often safely predict what is driving other’s behaviour since our minds all work in very similar ways. We can also fine tune our understanding of others by making adjustments based on information we have about them that makes them different from us and which might result in different behaviour under similar circumstances. For example, you may feel just fine when a friend throws her arms around your husband, but you know that Jenny’s black expression when someone did that to hers is because she’s the jealous type and it made her uncomfortable. This is where empathy plays an important role. It enables you to put yourself in another person’s shoes, even allowing for differences between you and them. This is all pretty intuitive and won’t be news to anyone as we all do it automaticcaly, irrespective of whether we know there’s a name for it!
However, when dealing with narcs and other cluster B types, we fall foul of that ability by interpreting their behavior within our usual framework. “Of course he cares. Why would he be with me/welcome me home with open arms/buy me that dress/help my mum out if he didn’t care about me? People don’t do those things if they don’t care about someone!”. Equally, the cluster B interprets others using his own framework and lacks the ability to make adjustments because he simply has no direct experience of many of the emotional states and motivations that guide the behaviour of ‘normal’ people. Hence, selflessness and altruism is just a front that we all use to make us look good in order to get what we want. And there’s nothing you can do to make him see that other people don’t always work that way. And worst of all, it turned out that anything positive I did for mine was stored up and !!resented!! as an attempt to make him feel that he owed me when reciprocity or a sense of obligation was the very last thing he was interested in. So so frustrating!!!
Sorry if that came over as a bit of a lecture. I’m in one of those moods I’m afraid.
My last ex also described to me how he did not feel love all the time but also told me of what he did feel from time to time very strongly which he called his own love… I suppose it way when he was receiving lots of fuel. I suppose its a condition you are born with no beimg able to feel love. 😢
I’m sure a lot if narcissists are in jail for their behavior.. As Maddie has stated. Their pain. What pain? Their fuel is from others. Shattering people’s lives is their joy / fuel. It is a full time job. A cat and mouse game. You will never understand a narcissist. They are like drug addicts, and will do anything to get a quick fix. To stay high. I don’t care the level of the narcissist. Or different Degrees. They all do it. Even if some narcissists don’t realize they are narcisstic.. They all Lie, steal, are manipulate, ect. All of us could right a book on them.. Mr Tudor has helped me to have stronger boundaries with people . If we don’t have strong boundaries, And keep them out of our lives, we will always be their victim.
I think with careful structure, decisions, planning… The bad job can be carried in a sustainable way…so that like CE says, narcissistd and empaths can find our best ways to live our days here. I am a positive thinking person and I believe that that there are some Ns that with knowledge can attain such achievement. ☀️
Maybe this is a little harsh, but I see this still as manipulation to make the empaths feel sorry for the narc. Yes you have a demon inside which you feel you must keep incarcerated at any cost. I think if you faced the demon in a controlled way, like us empaths and codependents must do to avoid another dance with a narc. Then maybe the Good man may appear as the good man you speak of is a fake like everything else.
Freedom, so cynical, how did you become this way?!
Oh HG only god … Sorry my ex narc could answer why I’ve become so cynical.
Although my comments appears cynical I feel it’s truthful again a trait narcs have missed out on.
❤ thank you freedom…
A person after my own heart!
There’s that’s famous self aware narc… forgot his name, makes YouTube videos. Anyways!
He said narcs can’t change because being a narc is who they are. They don’t have a real sense of self, having no empathy, no remorse, wanting to control everything and everyone is who they are.
Which is why I would love to do the 24 hours isolation experiment on a narc, just to see what a narc “becomes” after that.
Sam vaknin…
I agree . .. Sounds like they make excuses for their evilness. Goodness never has to be defended. They do no right from wrong. But choose to be evil.
Hello Kathleen, not all of our kind know what they are and therefore the choices they make are borne out of instinct and ignorance. I accept I know right from wrong but I am not created to care about either since for me the end always justifies the means.
If a persons child is starving and knows stealing is wrong and goes and steals loaf of bread does it mean they are bad? Nobody, who don’t know how shattering depressing scary excruciating is being without called here FUEL shall judge… there a people who do bad because they want be rich or famous but they aren’t narcissists and they aren’t targeted why? Its like calling all Muslims terrorists. No I am not an narcissist. YES all my live I am in relationships with narcissists. ..mum..friends…exes…husband… I know their pain. And yet I will not judge…it’s higher level of understanding.
I dont believe the good man is a fake. It exists. They can be ver good men without faking.
Split opinions Freedom but I think its according to the experiences we have lived.
Take care and have a nice weekend.
Hi NikitaLondon
You’re quite right we are all allowed our own opinions dependent on our own experiences and narcs we’ve encountered.
I am basing my opinion on my own personal experience and the information gained from the knowledge of narcissists from MR. HG himself and the numerous manipulative techniques they roll out to obtain their fuel. As I say the good person could possible be achieved if they dealt with their inner demons and become in control of their own destiny rather than driven by pandering to the demons demands.
Enjoy your weekend NikitaLondon .
D I’m glad I’m not the only one who has this train of thought 😊
So after a long time of no contact, I can liken myself to a moldy piece of food from a dumpster JN is risking illness from just to get a supply fix. Awesome!
I do see the analogy you are making with very creative writing.
However I see Freedom’s point that it is a manipulative sell. You could replace food with crack and this then takes on the dance of an addicted junkie – not nearly as attractive.
If we go a week without food, we will literally die. If you went a week without any human contact from anyone, you won’t literally die. You’ll only be psychologically starving in your head and doing mortal combat with the creature.
Clarence, its more than mortal combat or psychologically starving. It has serious mental and physical consequences for the N. Not that I am an N. But I know it.
For instance just like anxiety attacks do to us. We have a moral responsibility to not repeatedly subject those around us with the fallout of hurtful abuse. What did H.G. write yesterday, “Deal. With. It.” I heard a saying once, “deal with your Sh*T or your Sh*T will deal with you.” It may go well into his old age, maybe on his death bed but that creature isn’t going to remain silent forever no matter how brilliant his writing his.
Because I have dear family memebers which belong to your kind I can very well understand this excellent posting. I prefer to comment on this post from my family point of view, rather than my exes. I agree with the final sentence of the posting. I am a good man. My exes are good men. They can be really nice when they want, whatever if its faked, they can be helpful, i have heard very good friends, good party hosts, everything you want, but yes in romantic relationships have ended up by hurting the partner, me being in that group.
I have a family member which I adore with all my heart and I have had the opportunity to observe and analyze with all the knowledge I have. Before HG school, I always wondered how can this be that this extremely lovely person which everybody adores and I mean really ADORES, can end up his romantic relationships in such a terrible way towards his expartners. Lovely sweet man but discards his partners in a very cold way. Also strange that he could eventually get very very very angry. This is very strange. Far I was of imagining NPD existed.
As he is so lovely he never lacks fuel never but I see now how ” hoovering”, rather his exes seek desperately to get in contact with him and I see the seek for fuel all over. Even from me, demandimg always attention, but I know now its fuel.
This person I believe is a medium range N. You rarely very rarely see him seeking negative fuel. In fact I would say never except when you cross him, which also almost never happens as he is so lovely.
Once i saw him in the perfect place. The perfect girl for him. For the first time so ” inlove” he was settled down. Had stopped lining up other girls. He was dedicated. A happiness impossible to break. Desire to marry etc. As always something got in the way and desire for career set geographical distance in between them and somewhen it fell apart. Several reasons but Funny enough not another woman. It was her betraying him. Beauty pagent had some high expectactions on the relationship. He has not Found somebody like her again and I doubt he will find, nevertheless he is now happy but again sort of unsettled (i think).
And her. The marvelous beautiful girl. Fell esnared right after by another N. Very unhappy in her marriage she looks and looks to contact my family member which I am pretty sure never showed her any traits of his N condition in the time they were together.
So yes Ns are good men in fact very good men doing a bad job 😢😢.
PS. Its is very very true that they do not intend to hurt people. When I first started reading about NPD, I fell upon the blog of a diagnosed psychopath. Ex-convict for murder of two people and he too like HG answered questions from people and this was one of the questions he answered and he said that never when he engaged with somebody he had the intentions of hurting somebody. That was the only piece of infor that I retained from that spooky and creepy site where I stayed at most 2 hours and never returned again.
Sorry if my thoughts came across poorly. I am particularly “drunk with fatigue” this evening.
This could be an issue for much heated debate.
Perhaps that is why as I write this, I notice that you have not received any comments. It’s a little too much for most to digest.
Survival versus morality has been portrayed in novels and Hollywood productions alike; not to mention religious constraints and beliefs.
I dare say few of us would be able to make such choices with absolute conviction, without being in a plane crash, in the snow amongst the Alps, with no hope of being rescued til spring, so must manage to survive; or simply wait for themselves and others to die, or be “forced” to take their own life and perhaps that of others. Some people could not imagine eating any living thing and so would struggle to find any sustenance in such a situation.
Many variations spring to mind to solve the problem, as it presents itself initially, despite adding to the scenario with any added stressors such as injury/illness or children and perhaps the elderly etc. Some of them, most ghastly possibilities… I guess such a circumstance would prove to be impossible for many to find an acceptable solution to their problem and such desperation would obviously add to the stress. I feel absolutely responsible for providing for my children, but could never take the life of another human in order to allow us to survive. I have seriously considered the overall process of euthanasia and assisting others in such terrible scenarios or fatal health issues in depth, due to my work in the health industry. I still struggle with the thought of anyone suffering needlessly, but have had to witness such due to the wishes of others as they follow their heartfelt beliefs.
I can extend my mindset to grasp your explanation and have personally witnessed the incessant need for fuel you describe that N’s hold. Being both personally and painfully affected by many that I love, by this affliction, has been an emotional dilemma for me throughout my life.
Many non N’s do suffer guilt and shame, and many variations of morality. I dare say, HG, that many of us will always struggle with the extent of the needs that you have, as they just simply cannot relate. Some of us have sacrificed ourselves and others we hold dear, as we truly had/have no wish to cause your kind anymore pain, than we know you live with in the deepest recesses of your being. For you, yourself, were sacrificed as a child of innocence by those that should have loved you unconditionally, but they themselves were unable to do so, in order for their need to thrive, as they too were a product of their unfortunate upbringing.
I am truly unsure of my definite feelings of many of the choices life offers; both seemingly simple and necessary and those that present themselves as truly being unexpected and against mainstream confirmity. Or perhaps even simply differing from others due to race, gender, sexual orientation, religion or life experience.
I think some of us are created in a certain way and follow that path and its rules/restrictions to the letter throughout our entire lives;despite our own feelings/fears. Some of us are shaped by our life experiences and change as we grow. Some of us rebel entirely and stay true to ourselves as we are shunned from society; whether it is to our own detriment or not…I simply hope for one thing…that each of us, is well informed at each point in our lives so we can make the best decision for ourselves at any given time. I guess that is the beauty for yourself HG, of YOU, being so self aware. You know yourself and what your needs/wants and survival requirements are. In order for you to thrive. You also have the benefit of not having guilt. We don’t..so perhaps most of us will just need to agree to disagree; as to what is necessary for any and each of us in our quest for peaceful coexistence on earth. ❤
As ever CE interesting observations which I always like to read, it all helps me add to my understanding.
As always, Im never sure of my exact contributions to any N’s understanding of a differing view.
No wonder I have helped to forge such “ideal” n’s when I helped raising the children I took on. The many, many hrs I spent discussing and helping them with every topic they addressed in depth and many that I had to, due to their “ways” as a result of their upbringing to date. This did little other than to create very skilled manipulators indeed. I think I may have done the opposite of what I intended by handing them the “holy grail of empathville for a view to an utopian existence”, instead it proved for them to be an invaluable resource to utilize for them to thrive as an accomplished N…such is life.
I guess, I ultimately gave them their idea of Utopia; guilt and shame free, with skills that would win an Academy award for their performances.
Perhaps, I should just keep my thoughts to myself. They seems to be of detriment to many.
Not at all CE, I welcome your observations (and that is not tongue in cheek for the avoidance of any doubt)
I just fear I enable others to be their very best always…and unfortunately that hurts others sometimes…
I don’t understand why you think you would die without this “fuel”. Water, food, shelter, is about all we really need to “survive” and stay alive so why do you think you would die. That is a lie…test it. You may be uncomfortable for a bit but you will get past it. Suck it up and be a man.
I know your game Lauren, I have you in my eye.
Lol, I think you just read my thoughts.
I think you know what my answer is to that question.
Yes I do D, your support, as ever, is welcomed with great gladness.
Whatever helps you keep the beast imprisoned.
I pray for his freedom!
I think that appears to be the most genuinely lovely response I have seen you make. As I do not know what D’s stance actually is…perhaps it was tongue in cheek ❤
It was tongue in cheek CE.
I just saw her response and realized 😊