Told You So
“You know you really shouldn’t get involved with me you know, I am damaged.”
“Well, it is a little bit late for that isn’t it? I am already involved.”
“I know and I am glad to hear you tell me that, really I am, because I want you more than anything. I have not wanted anybody else in the way I want you but it is because of that I think you would be better off without me.”
“Don’t be silly, what do you mean by that?”
“You are so wonderful, so perfect. I truly have not met anyone like you. It is as if everything I have ever wanted and needed in somebody has been put together and rolled into one.”
“That is lovely of you to say, but I am not perfect, far from it.”
“To me you are.”
“Bless you, that is so sweet. I think you are wonderful too, not at all damaged. I cannot believe you said that.”
“Well I am.”
“Not from where I am sitting. You are incredible. Thoughtful, loving, attentive, interesting, sensual and so passionate. Those are just a few of the things that spring to mind when I think about you.”
“What else?”
“Oh let me see. Generous, yes generous and kind, considerate and successful. Entertaining as well. I don’t think I know anybody who can light up a room like you do. I love to watch you when you have everyone’s attention, I can see how much they love to listen to you.”
“Oh you are just saying those things to make me feel better.”
“No not at all, I mean every word, I really do. I have not met anyone as special as you and that is why I love you as I do.”
“You shouldn’t, I don’t mean to be rude, but you will only get hurt.”
“How? By you?”
“Yes.”
“How?”
“I don’t know; I just always seem to mess things up. It may sound strange but somehow I want to think, I mean, I kind of know it should work with you, with you more than anybody else, I suppose I am just terrified that what we have is so wonderful, so perfect that I might do something to ruin it and then you would be hurt and I could not stand for that to happen.”
“You see, there you are again, considerate and kind.”
“I could not live with myself if I hurt you and I just do not want to run that risk of that happening. You do not deserve to be hurt.”
“That won’t happen, I can feel it. What you and I have is something out of the ordinary.”
“Yes we have haven’t we?”
“Absolutely. I love you and you love me and nobody is going to change that.”
“I know, I know, but what if, you know I do something?”
“Like what?”
“I don’t know, it is just that well, previous relationships have not exactly been successful have they? My track record is not great.”
“No but that wasn’t your fault was it? Look, you told me all about what has happened in the past. Not many men would be so honest as you to admit to what you have gone through. That takes real courage and is typical of the honesty and decency you exude. You are a good man and you have been treated abhorrently by some wicked people. Oooh, if I ever met them, I don’t know what I would do.”
“I knew you would understand. You always do. You get me. They never did you see. I tried you know. I always tried to make it work. I just wanted both of us to be happy but you know when whatever you do is not enough? When no matter how hard you try to please somebody but they always find some kind of fault? That was them. They made me feel like it was my fault a lot of the time. They had that way of twisting everything around so I was made out to be the villain. It is hard to explain it, but that is what they did.”
“I understand. There are some people who just delight in the misery of other people but that is not going to happen with you and me.”
“No?”
“No. We have both suffered previously.”
“I know. That is why I do not want to hurt you, you have had enough from the past and you deserve to be treated properly.”
“Well that is what you do. I could not ask for a better boyfriend, I really could not. You put me first, ahead of everything and you do so much for me. I really do appreciate it and each day I feel more in love with you because of what you do for me.”
“Thank you. That is all I want. Both of us to be happy. I think it must just be because of what has happened in the past, I am worried that this time, having found you, it will go wrong again and you will be hurt and I could not live with that.”
“Honestly, there is nothing to worry about. You have just been made to feel like this because of what they have done to you. It is understandable. I know you won’t hurt me. How could anyone who says the things you say to me ever hurt me? I have never had someone say the wonderful and beautiful things you say to me before. You leave me in tears. Tears of happiness admittedly because you just know what to say, you understand me.”
“Yes. There is a connection and it is deep and meaningful and I do not want that ever to be severed. I will fight to my dying breath to stay connected to you. I want to become you.”
“See, there you go again, saying the most wonderful things.”
“You bring it out in me. If it wasn’t for you I don’t know what I would do.”
“Well you don’t have to wonder do you? You’ve got me and you always will have.”
“Do you mean that?”
“Absolutely.”
“You see I am really in heaven every time we kiss. I don’t ever want to hurt you or lose you.”
“That will never happen. You have me forever.”
“I hope so, I really do.”
“You do. Now, let’s not have any more talk about you hurting me, that isn’t going to happen. We have the rest of our lives to be together and be happy. Let me get another bottle of wine, no, it is my turn, you stay there. You do enough running around after me, let me do something for you for a change.”
“Okay, same again please.”
“Coming right up. I love you.”
“I love you too.”
109 thoughts on “Told You So”
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When someone says “I LIKE you because you are intelligent, generous, funny, etc…etc” it sounds acceptable. You really can like and admire such qualities.
But when someone says “I LOVE you because…”, stop, just stop. “Love” and “because” aren’t compatible. Love is an unconditional feeling. “I don’t know why I love you. I just do.” Mother doesn’t know why she loves her child. She just does it. Unconditionally.
That dialogue is a good example of conversation between two liars. Narc lied about his exes and with his final “I love you too” phrase, Empath lied all the way (I guess not intentionally, just confusing “like” and “love” feelings). Anyway, it is the wrong start for both of them.
No name, I actually have to agree with you on this one! Love is unconditional! It is a feeling that I have inside of my heart for someone that words could never describe! Not because of this that or the other thing! I just do! Xxx
All I needed to hear was “I want to become you.” Narcometer on high red alert, ass hightailing it out the door as fast as humanly possible.
Cinderella hears the same message from her current crush. She and him both have mental health issues and met in an ongoing support group.
Except he’s heavily codependent and cries when he expresses self loathing while in the throes of depression and anxiety. He suffers from major depression.
I’d love to address more line by line what he’s told me. Except I relate to feeling the same way, without the the threat, expressed or implied of hurting him. My responses to him are almost verbatim.
I’m damaged. I’m no good for you.
So I was. 85 % of families are dysfunctional. Deal with it.
I’ve been hurt before. My mom, my ex, the system.
It gets on my nerves when you play the victim card. If you choose to relive only the hurtful past, I will respect that and walk away.
I need fixing.
Good. If you recognize you need fixing, see a therapist as I do. My brand of fixing involves using a scapel to cut people who use my as a counseling resource out of my life. (He’s seen me do this) I’m a recovering codependent. I want a boyfriend, not a caseload.
You only say good things about me to make me feel better.
Yes. But I only tell you the facts. I won’t feed you a lie to make you feel better. I will never tell you are the smartest, best looking, best anything. I’ve been around the block to know perfection is not an achievable human attribute except as a weight to belabor under.
I’m afraid I’m gonna mess up. I always seem to mess up. I’m afraid I may disappoint you.
If you do, you learn from it. If the mess up involves repeating hurtful offenses, then we’ll both consider it a learning experience and move on.
My ex hurt me.
I really don’t want to hear about your ex. Comparisons positive or negative are off putting. If you have loose ends with her, go ahead and tie them up.
When I first met him I thought he was a covert vulnerable narc, the ones I’m a sucker for. But he may not be. Sometimes the flags i see in my hypervigilance are mere banners. The delusions of depression.
Still I push the buttons before I trust he’s not a narc. THAT’S what I warned him about. The rigorous scrutiny of dating a recovering codependent with a past history of mental illness. I warned him that the eject button is constantly being tuned just in case.
I care about him. Every now and then when I need time to recharge and meditate, I take off for a day or two. And other times the depression lifts and he’s all tall, solid, positively engaging and fun.
And then I know the paranoia may take as long to leave as it did to set in while I danced deadly soul sucking dances with narcs.
I won’t let go until there’s no shadow of doubt. I’m a sucker for brainy introverts.
It seems there is always a bully.
A school bully
A bully at work
A bully in a partnersship
A bull at a party or an event
And a blog bully 😃
“Me 4 U Infidelity 2”
[Intro:]
Its crazy.. You kept me on this pedestal no matter how much I let you down too long too long too long.
Now you trapped… My love 4 U ain’t going nowhere nowhere (Just me 4 U) Onlyyyy (Just me 4 U) Onlllyyy (Me 4 U) Onnllyyy (My love 4 U)
She told me I’m dieing I’m trying to survive never be enough if its just (Just me 4) now she question if its real when I say I
I love You You (My Love 4 U)
[1st Verse:]
I guess its hard to feel when I’m never even there. Actions speak louder than words and they say I don’t care.
(My love 4 U) But I know its in my heart if you can hold it right now you see its only beating cuz you hold a nigga down think about that for a second now baby…
un un un un Woop! I cant say its right when I’m running through the night you’re my shining star cant afford to lose your light.
So busy doing wrong Will I ever get it right for you?
[Chorus:]
She deserves something better and she know she does but I’m never gonna let her cuz she knows my love.
(My Love for you) You can never find another man (Just me 4 U) Cuz I ain’t never gonna understand if it ain’t me 4 u me 4 u.
Even tho I’m doing wrong girl you can never move along girl cuz its just juuust me 4 u
[2nd Verse:]
Me 4 U & U 4 me that’s the way its gotta be even tho I’m in the streets fucking with these fucking freaks stupidly truthfully I know you been so thru with me you put up with my foolery I guess you got so used to me and my infidelity and thru the bad you saw the better man in me you picked me up every time they put me down you try to leave me Imma tie you to the ground.
Baby look what you’ve allowed
Baby look what you’ve allowed
Baby look what you’ve allowed and I never find no nigga in my house
(who who that talking in the background huh?)
[Chorus:]
She deserves something better and she know she does but ill never gonna let her kill a nigga dead that’s just (My Love for you)
You can never find another man (Just me 4 U) Cuz I ain’t never gonna understand if it ain’t me 4 u Just me 4 u u.
Even tho I’m doing wrong girl you can never move along girl cuz its just juuust me 4 u
[Man & Woman Convo]
[Man:] It meant nothing I was helping her thats all
[Woman:] The way you helped me?
[Man:] I thought she was your friend?
[Woman:] So you wouldn’t fuck her?
[Man:] That language does not become you
[Woman:] yes. you’d rather I be demure
[Man:] I’d rather you be rational
[Woman:] Meaning what? That I say nothing about what I see what I hear?
[Man:] What have you heard?
[Woman:] That you’re capable of anything
[Man:] Well if you didn’t tell me about then it couldn’t have been very upsetting
[Woman:] You make me sick to my stomach. This whole arrangement of…
[Man:] What arrangement?
[Woman:] That I do accept what you tell me and there’s nothing more.
That I aid you in the business you conduct and pretend I don’t now what that business is.
[Man:] I don’t recall you ever saying no to anything I put in front of you.
You make a little noise every now and then to remind me what a good person you are but a good person wouldn’t be here right now.
The lyrics from infidelity 1:
“Infidelity”
You love me like words can’t explain
For me to feel the same is all you wanna gain
You never claim that the dollars made me change
But the models givin’ brain
Guess that could f*ck with your brain
Hurt your heart in the worst way
Never should have let you fall in the first place
But you’ve fallen, put your all in
Now you’re so high off love you don’t wanna get down
Most nights she ain’t sleep
Worried where I might or I might not be
Shesh! for the life for me
Man what a life I lead
[Chorus:]
You kept me on this pedestal
No matter how much I let you down
(Down I let you down (down [x3])
With all my infidelity
You loved me so incredibly
Inside I’ll fall apart
If you ever love someone instead of me
(instead of me)
So you deserve a better man
(Instead of me, instead of me)
Clock won’t stop (tick, tock)
Her love is going, going, going
– by the minute
Going, going, going
– she keep giving
But I know she can’t take it
Still her heart I keep breaking
So I’m a let her love go
Cause I don’t deserve her love no more
Sad story
She mad for me
And mad at me
Sad that we
Can’t exude love
Not a true love
Cause it’s all screwed up
[Chorus:]
You kept me on this pedestal
No matter how much I let you down
(Down I let you down (down [x3])
With all my infidelity
You loved me so incredibly
Inside I’ll fall apart
If you ever love someone instead of me
How do you fix a love undone
How you even know if you’re fit to love someone
And when you decide to take that ride
Can you drive from the passengers side
One wheel in the middle
Four hands on it
Two sets of breaks
You decide to slam on it
God damn woman
Where the love go
Whip crash will you get whiplash
Sit back cause you won’t get sh*t back
But think if you tried to get what you jus had back
She mad at facts
And you can’t be mad at that
(You can’t be mad at that)
(Clock won’t stop – tick, tock)
You kept me on this pedestal
No matter how much
I let you down
I let you down
There’s an R&B / pop artist name Trey Songz. He has the song on his Pain and Pleasure album called Infidelity 1 and Infidelity 2. Where he tells the person you held me on this high pedestal, you knew I was with other women, you never said you were unhappy and you can’t be with another man I will tie you to the ground but accept my infidelity because I told you. Totally, narcissistic too me also his album cover has that blank narcissistic stare. He very handsome but looking back he could potentially be a narcissist. My personal opinion. I don’t know how to upload videos here otherwise I would.
Reading this particular post made me wish there was a way for us to conveniently post screenshots of short conversations with our N’s relevant to the subject matter! Being able to do that would provide examples of real life dialogue of love bombing, gas lighting, blame shifting and all the other manipulative techniques we’ve been subjected to. It would also show examples of how we counter this behavior. Just a thought…🤔
Are you not able to copy and paste them – suitably redacted to avoid personal details being broadcast?
Yes, after a screenshot is taken it can be cropped so no identifying names or phone numbers appear. I have done this to show my friends the especially entertaining texts I’ve received.
Strange how i feel like i have said these words many a time myself.
Mine would never say any of these things. Instead, I’m told how he would provide me with the best relationship if given the chance and thathe’d put every man I’d ever been with to shame. He’s somatic and has no self awareness.
So far those records and the four written pages (for a one year relationship) of his bad behavior have been very helpful when my addled codependent mind starts f*#king with me by telling me I should “just tell him that one thing.” HG has been super helpful…I finally deleted all the photos i had of him…in identifying all the ways “contact” can happen. So I know that even looking at and listening to those things has been a form of contact that indicates he still has some of my attention/energy. But it’s value in keeping things honest for me and keeping him at bay far outweigh the negatives of holding onto it.
I never had any warnings.. He created paradise for me ( or was that me?😊) and acted like he was the most perfect, generous, loving man that ever existed.. He still does! I was the one responsible for the ruination of this beautiful love story” (his words) He manipulated me, spun my words around, and lied about me…He accused me of flirting and cheating, and created horrible, slandering stories about me… He was furious as to how I defended myself… I just couldn’t swallow the lies.. A month later he was telling me I was beautiful in every way, a once in a lifetime woman..” Talk about spinning….. Did he lie about me to take me down a peg? To get rid of me? Fuel? Does he believe the stories he created? Are they real to him or just a way to abuse?.. Great reading today from all the followers and of course, HG… I think he’s charming as Hell and a gifted writer, I love his humor and his flirtatious nature, but that’s because I sit in the knowledge of what he is truly capable of… I can sit back from very far away and enjoy all that this blog has to offer, but I never let it slip my mind, that he would tear anyone of us to shreds, and is not capable of what we really want and desire…. I am so grateful for the knowledge and the truth discovered here, but I feel very sad and I have pity for the women that have been involved ,and the destruction of their lives… It can’t be candy coated…
Until you feel it neccesary in your own progress, do not dispose of it
When mine said “I might take you down, you know…” I started keeping records of EVERYTHING. Having the means to seriously impact his life with the information I have on gives me the leverage to demand he leave me and mine alone.
That was an astute move Cyborg, has he ever asked to see the recorded material?
No, didn’t give him the chance. But I know from reading your material not to give it to him. The risks are too great for him to test me. If he uses what he has on me, I get embarrassed. If I use what I have on him, he goes to prison and loses access to his kid.
Pleased to see you took note.
Do not ever dispose of it
Are you my N, HG ?
I clearly recall him saying to me after we first kissed. We’d better stop this now or you’ll get hurt’
I asked why just me and not both of us ?
That said I also recall during the lovebombing telling him to leave me alone and that ‘a girl like me is no good for you’ hahaha it didn’t stop him ! And I was saying that thinking I was bad for him cos he was such a nice guy ! I got that one wrong didn’t I !!
I am and I am not. You know what I mean.
Profound what you reply with here HG
Thank you F&R.
Self aware
Wow, Alexis!!! N1 said he didn’t want to hurt me after we reunited this last time….he was fresh out of a relationship….he was most vulnerable…I reminded him of this fact and he ignored it.
He knew he wouldn’t get hurt because guys like him don’t get hurt….
Completely T ! They know exactly what they are saying when they come out with these lines.
Mine used a bit of NLP in that simple one liner too !
I carefully listen to what people say to me now, male or female / friend or colleague
How about you ?
I do too, Alexis! Still, the problem is I hear and feel what people are saying and feeling…..but I’m still a sucker for love bombing!! Coworker, friends, family, and strangers….I know when they are BSing me…..but when I’m being courted and love bombed….I go with it….even if I know I’m being BS’d. *smh*. I think it’s my Scorpio nature….we love fiercely!!! There is no middle ground for us…..and to meet a man so intense like myself is something that’d be hard to walk away from…..
T I feel for you massively. I used to be like you, but I’ve learned to separate the toxics from the non toxics now and understanding the games they play makes it so easy now !!
I have good long term friend for life friends and now I have ‘fleeting’ friends too. I know what they are, give nothing to them, just play it and work it It then also lea more energy for people who really deserve my love and support.
….it’s easier to weed out platonic “toxic friends”….BF’s however are much harder…
I guess so T. I would hate to be in your position now of finding a new man after what you’ve been through. Keep reading Hun xx
It’s tough…Alexis. I trusted N3 with my life….we seemed to have the same values and morals.
I have every intention on finding Mr. Right in due time….N3 WILL NOT hold any power over me!
Thanks for your kind words, Alexis!
T my fone was playing up as I sent that ? In the middle somewhere I was supposed to try and say, I don’t alienate anyone. I remain ‘friendly’ with the toxics they can be fun ! But I give them nothing of me whatsoever. XXXX.
One day you wil definitely find your man !!
HG’s articles add complete power and depth to my approach. Everything makes complete and utter sense. A puzzle that once seemed to have lots of missing pieces now all slots together nicely. I hated it at first, I longed to be blissfully ignorant. But now I couldn’t be happier. Xx
It seems there is a connection in between NLP and N. My ex N2 is a professional coach in NLP. He is fan of that technique and told me he could use it to control minds. Sometimes when I watched him giving conferences I identified how he used NLP with the audience to comtrol their answers. It was amazing. I dont like NLP but find it fascinating as technique. The ones who learn how to use it are real mind controllers.
The NLP message here would be.
Nothing is going to happen and we wont hurt but instead love each other forever. ❤️.
Wow yours was a total expert Nikita !! That must have been so tough !!
I think the message from my Ns use of NLP on that occasion was more, fixing it into my head that I will be hurt when it’s over as well as using the ‘you’re gonna lose something’ technique. A 2 in 1 haha but I’m no expert and that’s just my own interpretation. Xx
Hahah Alexis. He made the mistake of instructing me on NLP, taking me to those NLP discussions they had after each course, so I knew when he was applying it on me. Usually NLP is used to change an idea and therefor attitude in a person.
But you can imagine a narcissists twist a little the principles. He did.
So that was not the bad part about him, he was a guy that critized everything from morning to dawn. This destroys. Yes that was tough. Brings you down to ground level 😢.
I bet that annoyed him nikita !! Yes I agree NLP does has its uses but it is mostly misused I’m sure. That must have been awful being criticised. I didn’t hang around for that thankfully, but I’m sure mine would have. The triangulation was enough for me !! Xx
I agree with Sirslittledarling- to read books written by psychologists or academics- its “educational”, “academic”. Written from a fellow survivor, its “testimonial”. I am more removed from it. I can be more cerebral and objective. To read it from the perspective of HG… it is much more emotional for me… more real. A slap in the face that I was so out of touch… indeed is very…affecting. Stirs up many negative emotions that I am only now beginning to learn to live with. A first step in knowing what my boundaries are. A lesson I resent and am thankful for in equal amounts and at the same time— Bye bye to Denial… This is some painful shit… but I am still breathing… its not killing me. One day at a time…
Welcome aboard, Lynn! We are here to help each other….*hugs*
Never has blame-shifting been done so beautifully.
It’s like a “Proceed With Caution” or “Enter (into this relationship) At Your Own Risk” but crafted with very carefully chosen, gorgeous words.
Basically, telling you right up front, “I’m warning you, in a way that doesn’t seem like warning, that I am no good for you and you’re going to get hurt. Here I am, laying it all out there. I’m even telling you I’m afraid I’m going to hurt you (because I most certainly will). I am giving you every possible indication that this will turn out quite badly (for you, of course), but I’m doing it in a way that makes you want to swoop down and take care of me. Against the odds and all that.”
So, if you willingly proceed into this relationship any further, it’s your own fault. Because you couldn’t see the warning for all the pretty, flowery words.
It’s brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.
Absolutely the case B&T, well put.
Welcome, B&T!
What about the disclaimer part?
*smh*…..my mother and stepmother always warned us girls….’LISTEN to EVERYTHING a man tells you when you meet him…..he’s never “just joking”‘…..did ANY of us take this advice? No……*smh*
Hi T! I think you have the opening paragraph to your own self-help book for single dating women right there. That is some straight up, solid advice.
Thank you, M!! Mom’s ALWAYS knows best…..
Mom = methods of manipulation yes?
We empaths usually prefer= methods of masochism, HG! You know that!😉
Ha ha good response.
I just threw up a little in my mouth.
Cray-cray!
It did seem like the times when he foretold his inevitable pain agenda that he was speaking from a vulnerable, weakened and pathetic place…is that an act to draw sympathy or a set up to draw fuel from having duped the victim? Or is it the N’s way to absolve himself of any responsibility…a disclaimer of sorts?
Both Bethany.
Right. I bet the quality of fuel is enhanced during the devaluation stage if you can think that you warned me and I still took it on. Of course it reinforces your feelings of superiority if I was powerless to refute your charms, even when forewarned.
What’s interesting to me is the mirroring that the codependent does. It’s a facet of people pleasing that I am also inauthentic. I’ll tell you that you were right when I know you weren’t. I’ll tell you out and out lies to make you stay…increasingly because I experience you as fragile. At the end of the day I realize that my longing for you is a result of having my own intimacy issues activated and that I don’t really love you any more than you really love me. When I examine my feelings honestly, I don’t respect or trust you. But the adhesive of my triggers is strong, and you are right that I am addicted to you (and I think that’s enough for you, you don’t really care if it’s love or not). That’s were my work lies when I finally leave.
Cyborg, you have it spot on in your first paragraph. The quality is absolutely enhanced through this technique.
It could be any of them but my narc definitely came out with disclaimers every now and then. Not knowing what I know now, I didn’t take them seriously and thought he was just being melodramatic since nobody *in their right mind* could actually mean those things. And of course, he was so inconsistent that it wasn’t easy to know which things to take seriously and which to brush off. I got “fear is more powerful than love” and “you’d better hold on because this is going to be a rollercoaster” in one earlyish conversation. Four years later and three months before we were married he said “I think you ought to know that if I marry you I will leave you”. When I said, right ho, we won’t get married then, he looked dumbfounded and said that he wasn’t expecting me to say that! Over the next month he convinced me that I shouldn’t take any notice and it was just pre wedding jitters. But after a year of marriage he announced his intention to leave. But of course you don’t realise just how unbelievably idiotic you’ve been until the fat lady has sung. So along with the pain of separation and the knowledge that all that love, support, compassion, patience, understanding etc. etc. counted for nothing, you’ve also got to deal with a big dollop of shame for being such a mug. Hateful!! And he has every reason to say “told you so, and it was your choice” with a smug look on his face. Where’s that lump hammer!
I am a survivor of narc realtionship. Married/divorced. Your posts are so real they trigger me: causing me to often fear my current relationship. I give myself space between paragraphs or posts. Writing seems therapeutic for you. You inspire me. I don’t understand why reading your posts is so scary other than I know their truth and don’t want to ever be with a narc again. I wish there was a test.
I do enjoy writing SLD and I have come to suspect that the insistence of the good doctors on me doing it includes a therapeutic effect. Tell me why reading the posts causes you to fear for your current relationship, that comment intrigued me.
Just prior to my escape from my abuser I read 20+ books or so on the narc/ predator and perhaps it was easier because I was gaining knowledge/ strength from them. I was freeing myself. It was also a Very logical perspective. Perhaps your posts hit me more emotionally. It’s possible I read them and apply them as questions to my current relationship. Looking for your words to illuminate the web if I am spun up in it again. Also Hoping to read things that confirm I am safe. Evidence.
Thanks for answering.
I should have stated it is my own PTSD that triggers me not your posts. I admire your writing skill and strength. thank you again for reaching out.
You are welcome.
Welcome to you, Sirs….
This blog is triggering in a good way…..very theraputic for me to share my experiences with N’s….but at times I forget how much I have been through.
We are all stronger than we realize….you will get your mojo back in no time!
Yes; good to read. Thank you. It is such a good feeling to know others identify. I was able to download one of the books from this site too.
It is nice to know we aren’t crazy, Sirs…
I probably have over 90% of HG’s books…his books came along right when I needed them….
I bought “Escape” first. It was a real lifesaver for me! *hugs*
Sorry Niktia, I’m not understanding why you are holding men to a different standard from yourself…
I for one, would never say to someone, “I’m afraid I’m going to hurt you..” unless I was planning on doing just that!
If you expect responsibility, reliablity, respect, honesty etc from yourself, expect the same from others and hold them to the same standard.
Hi D
Yes in theory what you say is true, but if we are talking about a person who suffers from something and is aware of it, I am thankful for this person making me aware of what could happen.
Like When somebody does actually have a weaknesd or flaw and this one gets mentioned as I see like an act of honesty and not as an excuse That may really happen. There are people who invent flaws just be on the safe side and this is different.
If I were a narcissist And wanted to be honest I would do the same with no intention of really doing what I am saying.
N’s world Its another world, another behaviour and another approach that you have to have with narcissists. You cant hold them as the same standards that you hold non N men. I cant hold neither a narcissist man to my standard expectations because I think differently.
So least this is how I understand it from HG.
Besides D the text is very beautiful. Like Romeo and Juliet in narcissist version ❤️.
Just the same. 😃. I am very romantic as you can see…
I still love it HG. I had only one ex telling me once that the less time I spent with him, the better for me.. And of the 3 he was the most sincere. The other 2 more or less implicitly communicated the message that I should be thankful to have them in my life and it was nightmarish.
So its okay. I have not had a relationship with a non N man but I am sure they also express their fears like that. Maybe different fears but the same, and not so BEAUTIFULLY written like you.
There is nothing sincere about this dialogue. It may be true, the Narc knows he is going to hurt her…but the feelings of concern for her well being? Not at all. This is the most sinister part of the cycle, the manipulation of the primary source’s emotions at the beginning. You are literally being manipulated into loving someone. Many of us wanted to believe the golden period was real and that the issues arose for him only in sustaining it. That’s not true. It is all an act. The only way to recover from this and get yourself back is to be brutally honest. So many codependents are afraid to face this because it raises our own creature; the specter that we are fundamentally flawed and unlovable. But if you are able to get enough detachment; you must also accept that this is not about you at all. And in fact, you were chosen for qualities that are laudable. We can form healthy attachments, our codependent tendencies notwithstanding, but only with healthy partners. The only healthy relationship for a person like me with a Narc is no relationship at all.
Hi cyborg,
Welcome back!
I dont really believe I am flawed and unlovable, nor I suffer from pathological loneliness anymore as I do search alot lonely moments. A relationship in between a CoD and a narcissist is addictive as the HMS states because yes it gives these special feelings that you dont get elsewhwere but i would say its a toxic addiction the moment it takes detriment on your well being and you are unable to leave and continue on this cycle. Which if you are referring to my friendship which HG is not the case. I do enjoy the blog and the interactions with him very very much.
Cyborg, welcome to the blog!
Wow! Dejavu! It was like living it all over again almost word for word! I don’t know what I would do without you HG? I may not post as much as I use to, since I’m busy getting my life back in order again ( and you have so many knew readers to take care of)! I am always here reading and keeping your posts always so close. Ironic isn’t it, your readings to me are like someone elses bible. Thank you for adding one of my questions to your book. You are absolutely wonderful! Happy fueling! Xo
Thanks you Fool Me. I have your series of questions by the way, I am finding a moment to give them appropriate consideration before I answer.
Just read this and had flash backs to the last time T was here. I’m pretty sure he hadn’t expected me to agree with him and tell him he was right and that we were on the same page as to ending it…. buh bye! lol
I feel like with a lot of narcissistic manipulations they try and appeal to your mothering instinct “take care of me I’m pathetic! I need you!”
It’s not attractive…
No one’s responsible for you!
I absolutely agree D. It’s another level of manipulation that’s rarely talked about explicitly. It’s been said many times that narcissists are stuck at the emotional level of a 5 year old, irrespective of their achievements in other areas. I have the impression that this is very much used to their advantage in exactly the way you suggest, whether or not they are aware of it. They certainly make the kinds of demands that proper adult men would be ashamed of and yet we respond to them as though we have no choice – as we would to a child’s (but not the likes of Sheila by the looks of things, Well done Sheila!). Mine certainly brought out a ton of maternal instincts that I never even new I had and could well be one of the reasons that the bond is felt unconditionally and for such a long time.
I’ve wondered whether that dynamic might be at least partly responsible for the prevalence of references to “my narc”, even when the narc appears to have become someone else’s (and then someone else’s and then someone else’s).
Interesting observation there K about the use of “my narc”.
You hit the nail on the head with the equation of Ns being the emotional equivalent of a 5 yr old K & D. Once I’ve had enough exposure to their childish rants and tempers I get the mental image of the N as a child and it deflates any interest in them at all. That’s how it’s easy to spot them and easy to show them the exit. I had yet another benign FOH from T just last night… laced with some complaints about not feeling well… which nearly got a reply of ‘suck it up, Buttercup’ had I any interest in prolonging the conversation 🙂
Just thinking back to my 6 years with R… I believe I actually responded to him during one of his whiny, childish moments that I wasn’t his mother and didn’t enter this relationship to be one to a grown man.. I had children that were less childish them him… once my temper is activated, the filter between mind and tongue vanishes… my bad lol
Wow! Sounds like my ex-husband I was married to for 17 years. My head is spinning. My whole adult life has been Narc Central Station. Is 5 am too early for a stiff drink?
Nope! First round is on me!!
Victim Narc quotes from the past
“I am afraid I will do something to drive you away”
“Taking care of me is a big job”
“It’s a tough job but someone’s gotta do it! You wanted it you got it!”
eek.
This is why we need #TeamTudor2016! Cheers!
I don’t see the beauty in any one of this.
Reading this made me feel sick and I was thinking “ffs how pathetic. You make a choice to hurt someone, man up!”
I was so fascinated by the text that I forgot :
Have a nice, fueled and energized day.
Really Nikita? You hope he has a well fueled day? Even though that might very well include hurting and humiliating someone that loves him? Every time you wish that for him. you are wishing pain for someone else. Negative fuel is best remember.
I suspect Nikita is thinking of the drawing of positive fuel which of course is what is usually drawn from the supplementary sources, it isn’t in Nikita’s nature to wish ill on anybody. You are right that negative fuel is regarded as best but if all positive sources are functioning at an optimum there may be no need to draw negative fuel. At least today.
K of course I am not thinking about negative fuel on anybody ” Godforbid” . The thing is that my ex N3 for example could live long on positive fuel and this what he mainly was looking so and many other Ns that I know.
HG had made it clear that he needs negative fuel when the construct is injured and I give for granted it is not.
Believe me K there are some Ns which are not destroying and humiliating people everyday but in fact can be very enjoyable to be with ( carefuk not to cross them of course with some modifications on your behaviour) and I believe HG to be this type.
The top of this blog is called Evil. I affectionately refer to him as Master Narc. He gets that title because he is 110% capable of extracting as much negative fuel as he can by whatever triangulation or manipulation is available in his Toolkit whenever he chooses. His exceptional writing does not grant a free pass on his past actions he used to write about more in the earlier days about past girlfriends, or what he may be doing today or tomorrow with the real people in his life. You say some Narcs aren’t hurting people everyday?? The one thing I can take away from this blog, is they are always hurting one chosen person in private while everyone else is viewing the charismatic façade. How convincing it is!
Hi clarence
Good to hear from you.
No I dont. Believe all are hurting someone everyday. As said I have in my family and This is not the impression I have.
And I dont believe HG is really Evil. There are some hard stories of the past, but I believe that he has been crossed to do what he did. And I have the impression they stem from before he was aware of his comdition. if you get in a toxic dynamic with an N. Then sure you will get hurt everyday if you decide to stay and watch this happen.
He never told the background of what pushed him to act like he did, he just told what he did. I am not the person to judge his capabilities to change, nor implicitly imply his treatment is for nothing. I think there is the potential to strongly consider your attitudes before a treatment and after a treatment. It is a fact that narcissism is not curable, but I do believe people can change their behaviours if they want to.
And I do believe HG can improve the narcissistic behaviours.
I am getting a little confused here on what the people would like to hear from me so that they feel content with my answers and way of thinking.
Everyone on this page is still hurting from their Narc in some way or we wouldn’t be here and H.G. would not have a niche or need to do this writing and have us as followers. Even if my Narc isn’t hurting or extracting negative fuel for the next month from someone else and just being his funny, engaging, good-guy persona self around work and home, I AM STILL HURT. So we can agree to disagree on your remark that the Narcs you know aren’t hurting people everyday. Someone, somewhere is probably suffering in silence from a past action they did while they just carry on with their disorder that they fail to recognize they have intentionally or not.
Yes Clarence ofcourse we are still hurting. We all do. and yes there is somewhere in this world somebody being hurt by a narcissist every day . I tell you I just got to learn from two new stories. The ex of my brother and a lady I had met some years ago. One is being aware she fell in a control trap and seems not yet being devalued and the other one divorcing and being subject to the worst. I had this couple sitting in my living room some years ago and everything was love and we had so much fun. My head still does not get although I know all the theory behind. I will see that They get the link to black flags and the blog.
I dont mean to excuse the narcissists here, they do cause alot of pain, but I do reconize that some are great people, really great people and that we fail to understand their world. Of course its hell to get hurt because someone feel critisized when you dont even intend to critize them. And see how hard it is to see that!! If not for this blog we would not know this because not even SV explains it in such a perfect way.
When I comment Clarence I am mainly inspired by the narcissits in my family, who Are great people. I know there I dont have the view of primary supply but that does not take away my right to recognize the good side of them.
My dad Clarence was a great person. There were near to hundred people at the funerary to come and say goodbye. Most I did not know. Some people even came near to me to tell me how he had chamged their lives. Careerwie on his way up he helped many many people and in a country where 70% of the people are poor is very significant. It was for Fuel .. Ok.. But it does not take away the merit,
My dad had an addictiok to women and them to him. Of course there were many of his exes at the church. One which had become his long term friend even collapsed outside the church and we did not know who this woman was but my mom recognized her after.
What about my mother. Except for the betrayal and her emotional needs not being met my dad provided to my mom all he could. ( i am not saying this was ok, no). He was not devaluing her except for when we were grown and she thought I dont want to put up anymore with this and tried to leave him. My mom had decided never to work. Then my dad became unrecognizable and tried to destroy her.
Also at work people who betryed him had to face hell on Earth but otherwise Clarence he could be the best ever.
So Just because a person is a Narcissit he is not a monster. Some do have very good sides. HG does. He is the bright side of the moon. 🌔.
I understand your view better, and I realize your relationships being with family members helps form the perspective you have.
Yes HG, I’m quite sure she is. That’s why I’m reminding her of the darker side of fuel extraction and that wish. And who knows what’s going on with you today or any other day. Since the devaluation phase lasts so much longer than the ‘golden period’, the odds are in favour of you doing damage to your primary source on any given day, irrespective of what you get from the supplementaries.
Today may be an all positive day, but as you indicate, tomorrow may not be and she’ll be wishing the same for you then too.
Indeed.
I know Nikita, they are indeed primarily charming and enjoyable to be with where supplementary sources are concerned. Most secondary sources would never guess in a million years how abhorrently they can behave behind closed doors. And all of us here know that they can be absolutely delightful to be with during relationships, even during the devaluation phase. That’s one of the reasons we are so reluctant to give up on them. We know all this. But don’t you see the massive flaming EVIL at the head of every page on this blog? This doesn’t capture everything that a narcissist is by any means but it’s a big flaming reminder of their essential nature whether it’s their fault or not. Relationships with cluster Bs are not called ‘relationships of inevitable harm’ by those that have studied them for nothing you know. There’s a reason HG didn’t use “Help me, I’m just a misunderstood guy” surrounded by hearts and flowers as his headline. You’ve read ‘The Devil’s Toolkit’ right?
I have to say Nikita, aside from HG, you are one of the most interesting people on this blog. I’m wasting my time trying to change your view I know. I think I’ll start asking you questions instead.
I am pleased you did not omit me there K.
Hi k
I am not more interesting than any of the others. I just have a different mindset and understanding. You made me laugh.
Of course please ask but remember I cant take the spotlight from HG 😂😃😃
He is interesting, not me. My life is pretty common.
I do have many nice relationships to Ns in my family and many of them, and I love them and I dont think they dont deserve a happy life, just like HG.
Blimey Clarece, we almost wrote the same response!. And of course I didn’t omit you HG, I’m perfectly happy to give you a little stroke every now and again.
Ha ha, I should think so and you see, I am just a pussy cat.
Prrrrrrr…
Welcome to the blog, K! You are new, right?
K, i agree with you. But she is ALWAYS flattering him. Yet he is out the doing this to other women, not Ok. No offense HG, you have been a great resource for learning about your type of men. But it is nauseating how she throws herself on you, yet in the same breath talks about how bad the N’s were in her life.
They made me suffer pretty much yes. But its in the past and now I have a good and susatainable relationship with two of them.
And if you dont like what I write then just dont read it when you see the cup of coffee above a comment. This is not your blog. Its HG’s by the way. Seems you miss that detail.
Wish you a nice day.
Hi ICU
I am sorry for my answer yesterday. I had time to think out things. Yesterday I had a bad day due to health issues. I see your point. its true that it looks strange to the outside how I admire so much HG and at the same I tell the stories about how bad it was with my exes.
I cant chamge the past but I can only improve the future and I did. you have to give me credit for this. I have a very good relationship with my exes thanks to what I have learned here. In fact in December one broke a piece of my piano but because I knew about fury I just breathed very very deep and continued.
When I post about my pass I do it because this is what this blog is for. i would not post here if I had had wonderful relationships. Woulnt I?
Again I apologize deeply for my emotional reaction and hope you can understand me.
The background for this reaction ( not an excuse) is that once a Reader that I liked alot, out of the nothing came out with a comment about me calling me an addict.
This was pretty sad for me as I thought she liked me and that we were going to meet somewhen in Germany…. I dont want to talk about it on depth because it makes me sad, I just hope you can understand better why I reacted yesterday like I did.
I did answer you in a rude way and I want to apologize and I promise that I will re-think from now on when I post about the past.
This message is so beautiful, I literally melted while reading it. You always surprise me with something better. When you think it cant get better than what we have now, because your writing is already so astonishing an excellent, something WOW appears again.
The words are beautiful and so accurate, such real feelings in between two people, it just amazing how I can get transported to another world with your words. Although you just describe the feelings of the person talking, you make it so real with your words and this is so real life cases that I easily pictured myself there and having the thoughts according to the case.
The same fears, of not being enough, of getting hurt, of hurting without knowing. I think even people who are not aware of their flaws because everybody has something, also have to go through these fears assaulting the mind and the heart. Being aware of the flaws and previous failures of course increase this fear X10, and fear is a bad enemy for moving from where you are.
I think when there is love, fear will just appear and disappear and this is why its not strong enough to destroy it. When there is a strong connection equivalent to love, like the river must follow its course. And it does forever.
This is so beautiful HG. Thanks a lot. Such good reads make a nice day absolutely.
PS no emojis because I am in my computer @work but it would be full of hearts and suns
Thank you Nikita.
What a load of crap!!
Lmao!
My narc tried this flex on me!
“I think…I’m going to hurt you..”
“Well if you think that then you probably will and you’re probably already plotting it, so bah bye!”
Don’t fall for this self pitying nonsense! Your time is precious.
Extract from one of the many volumes of Narc 101. Held in the archives at Narc Club headquarters. I dare say you have managed to have it placed on some kind of binaural wave frequency that only narcs can hear and have it transmitted out in the world…your entire library played on auto repeat.
I dare say after your thorough research HG, that the volumes might just be due for an update…which will continue well into the future…aka as narc reeducation.
Nauseatingly toxic