Is it the End?
I was engaged in a discussion recently with Dr E. The conversation concerned relationships.
“So, when you end a relationship, tell me how do you feel about it?” he began as he unfolded his notebook and found a fresh page.
“I do not end my relationships,” I replied.
“I see, so they are always ended by the other person are they?” he asked.
“No.”
He waited to see if I was going to say anything else but I remained silent. Come on Dr E, let’s see where you are going with this. You cannot outsmart me. He sat looking at me and I at him.
“Those answers suggest to me then that your relationships do not end.”
Give Dr E enough time and he always gets there.
“Exactly,” I answered.
“I see. We have discussed a number of relationships that you have and have had. With family members, acquaintances, friends and of course lovers. Now, from what you have explained to me I would certainly regard many of those relationships having come to an end, either by your doing or, though admittedly less often, at the hand of the other person.”
“Your concept of a relationship evidently differs from mine.”
“Please, expand on that point.”
“My relationships begin when I determine that they should begin,” I started to speak. Dr E frowned but said nothing. I could tell he wanted me to provide clarity to that assertion and I was happy to oblige.
“When I detect somebody who will prove of use to me then our relationship has already begun. It matters not whether we have spoken in person or even made any kind of contact. The decision that the relationship has begun rests with me.”
Dr E was making notes as I spoke.
” The nature of the relationship is defined by what use that person is to me in providing me with my fuel. If the fuel they provide is strong and potent then I will be spending a lot of time with that person, others less so. I dictate the pace at which the relationship will develop by such criteria that I understand people like you apply to relationships.”
“What criteria are those?” asked Dr E.
“Instances such as familiarity with one another, whether there is a hand shake or a kiss on greeting, the name by which we call one another, whether they can be relied on to provide information, whether they will lend money, whether we go to certain places together and how often, whether we live together, all of these things are what you measure a relationship by.”
“And do you regard those criteria as instances that ought to happen over a particular period of time?”
“No. They are all measurements by which I know people like you determine the nature of the relationship. I use them as markers by which the level of fuel can be influenced, accordingly, I will move them along at a pace which suits my demands for fuel.”
“But not according to anyone else’s input or say a generally accepted norm from society?”
“Well, the other person has to consent to the act, I mean, I haven’t imprisoned anyone in my home. Yet.” I smiled.
“But if they are to provide their consent surely that means the timescale is taken out of your hands?”
“Not at all. I just make them consent in accordance with my timescale,” I said.
“By exerting the influences you have described to me previously?”
“Exactly.”
Dr E remained silent as he continued to write.
“So you determine when the relationship begins and the pace at which it proceeds and this relationship never ends?”
“Yes.”
“But some of the instances of your intimate relationships that you have described to me certainly fit with the concept that they have ended.”
“Not at all. If I have cast someone to one side because, as they always do, they have let me down in some way, then I will not let them walk away. They might think they have been able to do this. Indeed, in certain instances I encourage that train of thought so that the person’s defences remain down and thus they are susceptible to me resurrecting our interaction. Nobody leaves me and I do not leave anybody. They will always serve some kind of purpose, at some point and therefore there may be a pause in our interaction but there is never a cessation.”
“What if the other person decides they no longer wish to interact with you?”
“Why on earth would they think that?” I asked puzzled.
“Well, your treatment of many of them was harsh and unpleasant.”
“But no less than they deserved. People need to know their place and if they step outside of that they must be brought to heel.”
“Why?” asked Dr E.
“Because I gave them everything and each time they repay me by letting me down. That is unfair. Each time I give them the world, I really do doctor and no matter how wonderful I am to them they do not do enough in return and they let their affection become dull or they fail to provide me with the adoration that I deserve. It is wrong and they must be made to see how wrong they are punished for their transgressions.”
“So you maintain a relationship to punish the other person?”
“In part yes, but it is usually because they still prove of use to me and they have their debt to me to repay.”
“I see,” remarked Dr E and he continued with his writing.
“And when do they repay this debt?” he asked.
“That’s the problem doctor, ” I said with a sigh, ” they never do. That is why I never let them go.”
30 thoughts on “Is it the End?”
Vent Your Spleen! (Please see the Rules in Formal Info)
This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.
Thank you for all of your articles! After 4 years I finally lost it and discarded him just before he could do it to me for the 15th time. I know this enraged him but I new he was working on seducing a new supply. After tgree weeks if nothing he messaged my ex but friend of 14 years on fb. He never met and said he thought that they would get along!?! My friend didn’t respond but blocked and deleted him. Since then he has not contacted me or a anyone I know. It made me anxious and I started missing him I wrote a letter but he never responded. It’s now been 1.5 months since I spoken with him. Maybe it is the end!! Is there any ways they hover undetected? I appreciate your time if you have any feedback.
Thank you
Hello Chanty, thank you for the message. Do excuse my dilatory response, I am rather busy. Your experience of being discarded 15 times is not uncommon as it the cycle is repetitive and the awareness and understanding that a victim needs is often denied for such a long time, entirely as a consequence of the way we treat you and keep you in an emotional position so you are unable to apply logic. Your friend appears to be a loyal supporter with regard to the manner in which she dealt with your ex. What did he write to her>
You are being subjected to a silent treatment as a consequence of you discarding him. He is obviously caught up with the new primary source which he has been seducing and that is keeping him occupied at present. 1.5 months is not long. He will hoover at some point and therefore you should use this period of time to build your defences and increase your understanding so you can keep him at bay when he tries to hoover you. It will happen.
When he does hoover you will know about it but he may undertaken some reconnaissance first which you will not know about – he may try and gather information through your friends. I would recommend you read No Contact, Smeared and Black Hole for more as these will help you given the stage you are at.
Do your kind become “quicker” as time goes by? Mine seems to be flying through relationships at a much quicker pace than he ever has before. Meaning, does the golden window get shorter? Will he devalue and discard quicker? He is a recovering alcoholic so I was thinking that maybe it had to do with his sobriety.
It varies. If there is an issue with sobriety his judgement calls when choosing new primary sources may be skewed and therefore he finds they are not as effective as he first thought resulting in a need to ditch and replace. This of course does mean that the golden period is shorter. Sometimes a realisation that powers are dwindling can cause a rapid turnover in order to find the best possible primary source who is likely to remain through to the end, so like trying on shirts in a store, different ones are tried and rejected until a decision is arrived at.
Thank you for your input. Now, had he been able to have contact with me, I am sure the wrath would have been wicked. He to, was not a physical abusive N. Will he take out his rage on the new prospect? If not I am curious, how can you fuction in love bombing while your in a rage. I no where he is on a playlist but he can’t find me. There is a prospect in his view, but he, I am positive, did not take well to being dumped. Will that fact he was cut first, all the way out of my life, leave this lingering anger of never having had the last word. Will he keep trying every now and again to Hoover? I am preparing myself for the worst should he find me. I would say he is not a low level N but not super high. His games are basic but there played like N.
You are welcome.
His rage won’t be taken out on the new prospect. He will use the rage and hatred he feels for you to power the seduction of the new prospect. This will provide him with added energy to seduce the new prospect and suck the positive fuel form this person.
He will always try and hoover you because he will want that fuel and also the opportunity to punish you at some point for your treachery.
Hi HG.
I have read every one of your books and studied you for the last 6 months. I happen to have got entangled with one of you 2 years ago. I have BPD and at my age have spent half my life in therapy. I am a nurse and educated. I saw the unusual signs so I kept some distance and then studied the man I was with. I was one of the lucky ones that set myself up for a great no contact that actually looks like his fault and why I left. It’s been 3 weeks today and he can’t find me. I have to questions for you. How long will he be angry about being dumped when not expecting it and not on his term? Second, you have a section in one of your books about music. Blew me away, do you use music because you can not put in writing any false feelings. Music does the work for you?
Hello Soaking and thank you for reading and contributing it is much appreciated. You have done well to ensure he cannot find you. You will have ignited his fury at criticising him by dumping him. That combined with his loss of a primary source of fuel when there is no replacement put in place (I assume this to be the case since you controlled the cessation) and the fact as BPD you will have been an excellent source of fuel,will force him into chaos mode. He will have been furious and descended into a frantic search for fuel from secondary sources and in terms of finding a new primary source as quickly as possible. He will have wanted to hoover you massively but since you have put yourself beyond his reach you will have had him sent into a furious chaotic situation as he frantically sought fuel.
Music saves us time. Music affects people’s emotions and many songs are about love, thus music and songs are ideal for our purposes. Other people have done the work for us and we can hijack this work for our own purposes to create the link between that particular song and a wonderful moment we created so it forms a significant bond which not only attracts but serves us well as ever presence when we are apart.
Interesting.
I thought he just couldn’t accept it. After I told him twice “this relationship is over”, he got into a fit of rage when he found out I changed my relationship status on Facebook to “single”. Asked me calmly, whether I had changed my relationship status on Facebook. He was flabbergasted at first when I told him “Yes, why not? My relationship status has changed, afterall”
Then he asked me why.
“Uhhh. … maybe because you had an affair and wanted my permission to keep seeing her”
He spent months after that to try to Hoover me. Then it stopped, quite abruptly.
I hope he doesn’t still see me as “his”. I’m a Gray rock. No contact isn’t an option.
Hello Kay, you will always be his, in his mind, the contract was forged when you met and remains until either of you draws the last breath.He will flit back and forth but he will always regard you as his appliance. He has stopped. For now.
Well, I hope he will stay the **** away from me.. Is there anything I can do to “help” him forget about it? I’m already applying minimal contact, and gray rock.
No contact is not an option (at the moment), since there are children involved.
The best way to make him “forget” about you is not appear on his radar, make yourself a poor or non-existent provider of fuel and thus he has no reason to want to hoover you since it is not worth doing so.
In that case, I am doing quite well. I respond to his questions in the most boring way, or not at all. And never ask him anything first.
That’s the way.
My N told me 11 years ago that I am under contract. The red flags were everywhere from the start but being the empathetic person I am, I believed that I could love him & show him the right way. After all, if you love someone, you do not attempt to force them to change, you love them as they are & show them different. I am from a very strong religious back ground & my father is the pastor of his own church. All though I have not chosen to live that way, the many years of religious bondage has & continues to breed human door mats with a repulsive amount of long suffering, forgiveness, & unconditional love. No wonder the mere sight of me causes a light in his eyes that others have stated only occurs in my presence. Quite frankly HG, reading your extremely enlightening masterpieces do have a tendency to tug at my heart strings & reach out to him BUT I am no longer the weak, needy woman that he made me, I have returned to the strong, independent, fearless woman I was before I met him. And she tolerates none less than she deserves. I do have a few questions though- what explains the extreme “light” in his eyes that only occurs in my presence? Am I that amazing of a source of fuel? Secondly, why does he continue to try to triangulate me and his new primary source into a battle for his affection when I have denied him that every time? But most importantly he questions why I will not compete for him when when he states we both know that with very little effort on my part, I will win. Why do I feel he wants me to put up a fight & relinquish my role as primary? Is that truly what he desires?
Hello Kim and thanks for your post.
1. You have answered that yourself.
2. Because of the potent fuel you have provided him and the promise of such potency through a triangulated hoover is an immense attraction to him.
With your final question I need some clarification. Are you his primary source or is someone else and you have been discarded/walked away? I’m not clear from what you have written who is the primary source, you or someone else.
HG, I discarded the Narc 6 weeks ago and he is now devaluing me on Facebook. Will this devalue continue until he finds new supply? He has made a few attempts to gain my attention, but all have been unsuccessful.
Hello Angeandkyla, when he tried to get your attention did he do so in a pleasant manner but it failed and now he is devaluing you on FB? If so, his benign hoovers have failed and he is seeking to obtain negative fuel from you instead. He may well have a new primary source and he is exhibiting to her what an awful person you are so he can triangulate and draw her closer. He may not have a primary source in place and is seeking to do so. If you avoid reacting to his malign hoovers (see Black Hole) then he will be forced to either up his game against you or more likely focus on getting a new primary source/drawing her closer if already found and he will lessen his involvement with you, unless you do something which brings you back on his radar. If that happens, expect more malign hoovers.
You say you give them everything. What if someone was definitely drawn to you but said they only wanted the gift of your time. Maybe the person gets overwhelmed by some of your overtures and declines accepting some of your lavish gifts. But they stay attentive to you so therefore you’re not feeling taken advantage of. How would you handle that?
Presumably we are talking about during the seduction phase MLA? If they reject the gifts at that point but do so in a polite manner and with some emotion attached it will not be regarded as a criticism and will provide fuel, this allied with the fact hat they stay attentive will means we will continue the pursuit. Indeed the combination of being attentive whilst rejecting the gifts suggests that they are “playing hard to get” a little and this would spur me on.
Yes, I am speaking during your seduction stage. You are getting all the powerful positive fuel you seek with admiration, but gentle buffers on any grand gestures which may hinder you establishing your initial groundwork for ever presence later on.
I know that which he speak of here, deeply.
Thankfully, not all N’s are as determined, focused and productively “success” driven in all that they do and are, as you HG. Or at least for such a long term endeavour, in any case. Some give up far less easy and then there’s the covert type that are even harder, at times, to identify. And then, the lines are often further blurred by substance addiction issues and their consequences/influences. No wonder the good doctors struggle to understand the complexities and variations of narcissim…
Indeed CE it is quite the spectrum.
Hi HG- One of his most trusted lieutenants (male, big $$ client) warned me today that N would never divorce me. Said he was worried for my safety. My N is you to a T (as you describe). Likewise, he has never caused me physical harm. So the warning/ concern gave me pause. No ex or friend or associate of his has ever contacted me in any way. New tricks from my old dog? Any insight is much appreciated.
The Lieutenant has been sent to create anxiety and this is intimidation by proxy. You have not suffered any physical harm, your N is most unlikely to do this but he knows that the threat of this happening will cause you consternation because (a) it is unpleasant to be physically hurt ; and (b) it would be a shocking contract to what has gone before. The threat of something often does more harm than the event itself. Most people are at a low risk of suffering a crime but many people perceive themselves at risk (something certain industries are keen to maintain) so they feel anxious, buy burglar alarms, arm themselves, buy panic alarms etc etc. How did you react when the Lt told you this?
Initially I dismissed his concern. I was curious however as to what prompted it. He said he was tired of hearing about the drama of our on again off again marriage. Claims to have told the N to divorce me already and allow my young children to heal. N professed his undying love for me (we are off again) and “got psycho” over the idea of me seeing another. It’s his over the top jealousy that unnerved Lt. N has told me he’d kill me if I ever cheated. I never took that seriously but sometimes I wonder how far his cruel nature would allow him to go. A friend suggested I do start dating as that would certainly grant me the divorce. Maybe you are right (lol) and I fell for his anxious making games. Perhaps N “got psycho” in part due to Lt’s down dressing of him. It’s not often people talk to him in such a manner. Thank you for taking the time to answer. What do you think about my friends dating suggestion?
I rather think that if you started dating he would refuse a divorce on the basis of frustrating your attempts to be free of him. He would also do so by reason of lashing out at you because by dating someone else you would be criticising him and his fury would be ignited so he would need to react. He might withdraw but I suspect he is more likely to lash out with heated fury.
Thank you… I know you are right on the dating another. He knows I have values and wouldn’t “seal the deal” until I was divorced. That’s why I thought doing something out of character would speed up the process. But now he’s performing the grandest of all hoovers. Booking trips and gifts and cash in the account… Is there a way to accept the perks when they come, and be happy in the PEACE and do my own thing when he D&D’s again? I know this grand Hoover will be short lived. Blinders off.
When it’s over its over . No turning back no going back. When I walk away from you .. it’s game over . I decide you do not decide . Others might allow it and you get away with it not with me. 3 strikes and your out . Your done . Your benched . Kicked off the field .
I think staying together is self explanatory. 2-gether. If one person lets go then there is no 2 anymore…
It takes 2 to tango… ???or am I wrong? Ar least its my view..
Sleep well HG . Thanks for posting. 😘. 😘
I love the Dr. stories !!!!!