Look Through My Eyes
One of the most powerful (from my perspective) and troubling (from your perspective) is the fact that my kind and me appear to act without any regard to logic. We appear to delight in ensnaring people by pretending to be something that we are not even though it seems completely genuine. We cause people to fall completely in love with us and then apparently turn on them, lashing out at them and hurting them. Indeed, we seem to delight in causing pain and chaos to everyone around us and we show no concern at such conduct. We behave in such a hypocritical fashion, chastising you for doing something and then doing the very same thing ourselves. We say one thing and do so with utter conviction and then in the next breath say something completely contradictory yet seem not to realise what we just done. We act with impunity, taking at will and with no concern for what anybody else may suffer as a consequence of our actions. The list is long and worrisome. Trying to fathom out why we behave in this manner leaves you bewildered, exhausted, defeated and broken. This is all of course intentional. We behave in this manner in order to wear you down, provoke reactions from you and most of all so that you provide us with our precious fuel. Our apparent disregard for logic and reason causes massive consternation to you and your kind. This is because you are ruled by order and the need to understand. It is woven into your DNA and anything which deviates from this creates a significant problem for you. Our behaviour makes no sense to you for one simple reasons. You are looking at the way we behave through your world view. You are imposing your values and your outlook on what we do. Why should it be the case that your world view should be regarded as the only one? Why should the way you look at the world be considered as the correct way of doing so? When did you become the arbiter of all? This is the high-handed arrogance which proves the undoing of your kind. Oh you will wail to anyone who will listen at how monstrous you have been treated, how we are evil people and the spawn of Satan. You sit in so-called support forums on the internet decrying our behaviour, writing page after page about what has happened to you and how horrendous you have been treated. All about you isn’t it? Oh I can hear your howls of protest now, at how you are a good person and that you do not hurt anyone. Do you not? How then is it that you injure me with your failure to behave consistently. You call me for it yet you are just as guilty if in fact not more so. You promise me so much at the outset and then you change the way that you behave so you do not give me what you once did. I do not change. I shine and dazzle and soar, but you make it all change, why do you do it? This failure hurts me as you reduce my fuel and force me to punish you for it. You force me to seek it from other sources when I would much rather keep obtaining it from you. You call into question my abilities and criticise me notwithstanding just how that behaviour wounds me. You hold yourself our as caring and considerate yet you do me these injustices. You hide behind your mask of empathy, telling the world you are the good person, the caring person and the one that looks our others yet this is just a ruse in order to wound me and my kind after everything we have done.
Perhaps if you stopped looking at the world from your own perspective and looked at it from mine you would start to understand. You talk so often about showing compassion and your ability to put yourself in the place of other people. Why do you not do this with me? You tell me you love me. I read about how many of you declare you loved my kind and me in a way that went beyond anything you had shown before. Sometimes I wonder. If you loved us in the way you say that you do, then why can you not put yourself in our shoes and then understand what it is we have to deal with. If you did this, you would start to see that our behaviour is completely understandable. It makes absolute sense when viewed from our perspective and not yours. I see no reason why you should not try this and then you will have gained considerable insight into why we behave as we do and then, should you still deem what we do as unacceptable then you can at least understand it and take evasive action can’t you? You will not have to decry us to all who will listen whilst and I think it is only right that I make this point, you are not helping yourself by wallowing in this moaning and self-pity and surrounding yourself with others who behave in a similar fashion. Providing blow by blow accounts of what we do in order to elicit sympathy but then asking why does he do this and why does he do that, is not getting you the answer because you are asking the wrong people. Ask me instead and I will tell you; view the world through our eyes and everything will make sense. It all comes down to one small word; fuel. That is why we act as we do. That is why we do the things we do and say the things we say and once you comprehend that it is all about fuel you will be looking at the world through our eyes and finally it will all make sense. Go on try it. I dare you or would you rather sit and milk sympathy and never move forward? Don’t say I never gave you the chance.
149 thoughts on “Look Through My Eyes”
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So, I came across this page by chance while researching narcissism for a book that I am writing where one of my main characters is a narcissist. This was greatly informative and very helpful for me to make his behavior more believable. Thank you very much. 🙂
Tabithaangel94
I do hope you mention HG and narcsite.com in your book acknowledgments in order to help other people become aware of the effects of narcissism, I wish you much success with your book!
This still doesn’t quite explain the “why”, but it’s a start indeed. Many people have it figured out to this point.
What we don’t understand is what is behind it? What is the cause of not being able to produce your own fuel?
Hello Atla, an interesting question. Everybody starts out exhibiting narcissistic traits because they must in order to survive, everything has to revolve around them – feed me, clothe me, keep me warm, house me, play with me, teach me, nurture me. These traits lessen as a self-sufficiency develops I suppose, but we have a different form of self-sufficiency. Owing to the way I was brought up along with certain events in my childhood (and possibly a propensity towards being what I am in a genetic sense) I evidently did not develop (and/or suppressed) the method of creating my own fuel but instead developed a method of protecting myself through the provision of fuel from external sources.
It seems to develop and function automatically in most people. Could it be possible for a Narcissist to develop this ability as an adult anyway? And would a Narcissist want that?
(It’s kind of a permanent source of inner warmth, hard to describe.)
Is it possible Atla, it remains to be seen. Some people think that it can.
Would a narcissist want it? it depends what the downsides would be.
A narcissist does what a narcissist is expected to do. Is it foolish for us to hold out hope that they will change. You tell people thank you most of the time when they compliment for your work. Is the thank you not genuine but a learned response? Real appreciations would require emotions true or not?
I have always been polite, Entertainment. That is of course a learned behaviour. By demonstrating politeness and courtesy I gain a better response from people and they are more drawn to me. I would not wait around in a relationship for one of our kind to change, it may happen, but you don’t want to be exposed to what happens in the meanwhile.
But I couldn’t bear even giving my ex any fuel or adoration at the end.
I read once that narcs are addictive at the start and nauseating at the end. It’s true.
How does one develop empathy for a sadist though? I’m having a hard time with this one. Borderlines I understand they suffer, but the narcs I know (i.e: parents, ex) enjoyed torture; inflicting pain on an animal or another innocent person made their eyes twinkle. Is it possible some folks truly are beyond redemption or “evil?” Maybe humanizing them was my problem?
The thing is at the outset you do not know that they are sadists and this is where your empathy was formed and it becomes difficult to shake thereafter.
my empathy was formed despite knowing who You are that must put me somewhere on the spectrum?
I would suggest that forming such empathy knowing what I am makes you especially empathic.
I think the hidden clue is the lack of introspection and the gas lighting approach to trigger a trauma response from those not fully healed, we all fell for that in relationships, some still do, easy solution, don’t run with, or after the wolf, chop off its head 🙂
I’m half way there. .. teach me, G x
With pleasure
Times where I have had to defend my son include when a previous school would place him in isolation because of his behaviour in the classroom. Whilst his behaviour may have warranted a consequence their choice of consequence was detrimental to my son as they placed him outside in the school grounds regardless of the weather. Sometimes he got soaked because it was raining. He was fearful when put there as larger boys were roaming the grounds and they would have beaten him if they had come across him. In fact he was so fearful that on several occasions he tried to walk the fifteen miles home.
Another time was when he was excluded from a school trip because he had complained about another boy who had taken a penknife into school and then produced it whilst sharing a taxi home with my son. My son and he didn’t get along and so he was alarmed by this action. The school didn’t feel able to have both boys on the trip so my son was excluded because the other boy had friends in the group that were going.
Perhaps you could give me some comparable examples of where you have been misjudged or mistreated HG and I will gladly spring to your defence.
Thank you for providing some examples. I am pleased to note that you will spring to my defence. You want me to provide examples? How long have you got? I am surrounded often by traitors, all of them are liars who see nothing wrong in allowing false words and malicious speculations fall from their lips that are stained black from the foulness that is spouted by them. They rail against me, propagating tales of my apparent wrongdoing when it is all based on their ineffectiveness, their jealousy and their own weaknesses which causes them to try to round on me. I am alive to them however, I am ever wary and have them in my eye and as such, I reject and repel their slanders and libels, driving them back to break on the stony ground I fling them onto.
Thank you for your reply. I think you may have required me to defend you when you were younger. However I think you are more thank capable of defending yourself these days.
Indeed I think the walls of your fortress are built so high and of such resilient material that very little gets through unless you allow it.
I’m interested to note that you speak only of the vagaries of the transgressions against you unlike the specific examples I gave you. At the risk of offending you I would respectfully suggest you are using tactics to avoid answering a question that you cannot answer.
Indeed I am, thank you for the recognition and yes the walls are high, thick and impregnable.
With regard to your final observation:-
1. The failure to select me for a promotion when I was evidently the highest-achiever, but nepotism was relied on instead.
2. Playing me out of position for a county game in order to make me look bad, so the manager’s son would look more effective.
3. Labelling me as dangerous in a meeting about a particular contract for the Middle East, when the word that ought to have been used was “effective.”
4. Not having my new car ready, 2 years aho, when it ought to have been, as had been promised to me, which was done in order to irritate me because I had complained about the salesman who had sold me the vehicle.
5. Siobhan (an ex) telling Samantha (the replacement) that I had a frightening fetish for administering canings. That was a lie.
There is are five off the top of my head. There are hundreds dear CR12.
I accept we differ in our views HG, my philosophy always being live and let live, I’m fine with that.
My son is almost 16 years of age. You asked on what basis I regard it as acceptable to defend him.
I should maybe clarify that where his behaviour is abusive or socially unacceptable I do not defend the behaviour although I may look to explain his actions to others. If his actions have caused him to bring consequences upon himself I will not protect him from those consequences but I will equally explain to him why this has happened.
I find that I frequently have to mediate between my son and the rest of the world. As he often does not understand the world and it does not understand him.
Where I will defend him is where he is misjudged by others and treated unfairly. As a consequence of his behaviour he has attended various special schools and care settings. Many times the professionals that staff these establishments do not have sufficient knowledge or training to fully understand my son’s complexity. Also in some instances the approach and attitude adopted has been far from empathetic and far from conducive to supporting him.
These are the times where I will defend and protect him as his condition does in fact sometimes make him an easy target which I know seems contradictory.
What I seek for my son is understanding and support in the hope that the professionals working with him will be able to effect some change before he reaches adulthood.
I hope that answers your question HG.
Thank you for explaining CR12. Perhaps you can defend me because I am misjudged and treated unfairly repeatedly.
More tea vicar, Too funny HG, I just had a dream about working at the Vatican…. An afterlife sentence to servitude for “recovering” from
my Catholic up bringing and actually having fun being bad. That guilt runs deep in the subconscious I suppose.
I have two cupboards of tea from
all over the world, I enjoy peppermint or ginger tea. What I enjoy most is the American obsession with their super-sized ten titled caffeine crack drinks, I love to hear them order them and then watch the twitch hopped up out of their minds. Good fun… I always thought tea was at 3 and a nice little break in the day, it is at my house. That’s my story and I reserve the right to embellish for my own entertainment.
GREAT articles this week HG, you’re on fire!!!
Thank you Amy, that is marvellous of you to write, I appreciate it.
I am not a fan nor even a regular user of the various coffee chains which have sprung up everywhere. I do remember a number of years ago walking with some friends along a river between Christmas and New Year. It was cold. The kind of cold which is enjoyable though since it numbs and purifies. Afterward, one of my friends wanted a hot drink to warm up and we ended up entering one of these sterile coffee-chain’s outlet. I opted for a large hot chocolate and asked as such from the minion. He turned to his colleague who would be making it and said
“Ho Cho Granday.”
It was as if he offered me his throat coming out with that pretentious nonsense. I could not prevent myself from drawing fuel.
DAY TWO MFer.
I do feel a bit off due to the fact he treated me so unkind. And of course in my mind all the others are treated like queens. Boy we sure do torture ourselves.
HG do narcs treat everyone the same? So if he doesn’t have me to blow up on before he goes out on a date, what will he do? I realized this was his MO. Like he needed to blow up to be calm and charming with his new victim.
We largely treat people the same, yes, there are variations on a theme but the similarities are always there.
The Scorpion and the Frog.
A scorpion and a frog meet on the bank of a stream. The scorpion asks the frog to carry him across the stream on its back. The frog asks, “How do I know you won’t sting me?” The scorpion says, “because if I sting you while you cross the stream, surely I shall drown too.”
The frog is satisfied, and they set out. But in midstream, the scorpion stings the frog. The frog feels the onset of paralysis and starts to sink, but has just enough time to gasp. “Why? Why would you do this to me?”
The scorpion replies: “Because I’m a Scorpion. It’s in my in nature.”
—Bam. It’s that simple.
WORD!
I do understand the arrow of hypocrisy. It hurts when it pierces the eye. N1 used to say he could read my eyes. I developed a sideways stare, and how he hated that.
Your Churchs are comfy but pointy toed at the same time. Dont have much to say other than that…and thank you as always for providing these thought provoking posts, HG.
You are welcome 1Jaded, thank you for continuing to contribute.
Thank you, B&T, for your insights. Thank you, LO, for your response as well (higher up in these comments.) LO, I am sorry to hear you had an actual situation where you witnessed a loved one being mistreated by a narc.
Omg, I heard this countless times: “if you could just see the world through my eyes”…no thanks, you freaking psycho!!
HG isn`t saying his world view is the correct one. He`s saying it`s HIS world view and right now he isn`t interested in changing the way he views or perceives it. For him, it is the “correct” view because it suits his purposes.
I’ve seen a lot of victims say they want closure and it is quite apparent that, in most cases, they will never receive it from the N in their life. In fact, many will continue to make themselves miserable until they get the closure they want and need so badly, while the narcissist continues to extract the fuel the victim’s ongoing misery and inability to move on provides.
As far as I can tell, this blog is the closest thing they’re ever going to get to the closure they seek, since HG is so open and honest about how and why narcissists do and say the things they do.
The only way to get closure is to be willing to see the world through the eyes of a narcissist and it shouldn’t be that hard since HG is doing all the hard work for you – to make you see.
You may not understand or be able to relate to how and why they operate, but it at least offers some explanation and insight.
And in the end, it’s better than my response when I am told someone is seeking closure from me. I usually just shrug and say, “It is what it is.”
Well put B&T thank you.
HG, only a few days until Peppermint tea! Today is Day 1 of no contact. I feel very good about this. I think in listening to him yesterday on the phone screaming and cussing me and blaming me and a few other choice statements, the damn lightbulb went on. I have no emotion now for him. The past two weeks, I had hoped for some sort of connection with him but my self imposed abuse has become draining and my choice today is to have no contact.
I hope I get your support.
The lightbulb is on. You need to keep it on as someone else wants the fuel for that lightbulb for himself.
Who might that be? The PIECE OF SHIT that I graced with my energy. He isn’t even worth it. Shame that I gave it to one who is not of my caliber.
I just need to let someone else in my life that will be kind and loving. I do deserve this and this is what I am working on with my therapist. I can’t fix the screwed up childhood ( not as bad as most) and the tumultuous relationship I had with my mother cause anymore havoc in my life. I can’t fix that one but I can fix me. LOL Why is always because of the MOTHER?
Hi B&T. Of all your posts that I’ve read, I like this one the most. Also, about the whole “closure” thing? Saying “I want closure” is usually a load of crap. It really means “I want to know what I have to do to keep him in my life and will do whatever it takes to make this work.”
Bingo.
I agree 100% to this Cody. This is what I was always thinking about when I read I am seeking closure.
Not for me Cody 🙂 One day for you too x
Thank you for the kind words, Cody.
I don`t understand the concept of closure because I myself never require it. Mostly because it`s usually me who creates the necessity for closure in someone else. But in the cases where someone has escaped me, I always know exactly why they chose to escape me and their decision to do so is always going to be entirely their own fault because my behaviour reflects their inability to treat me the way I deserve to be treated. So…..
I`m not sure that it`s a load of crap. I know some people genuinely want to know why they were discarded or abandoned. They honestly feel they cannot move on until they know exactly the reasons why a person did what they did or said what they said. Again in my case, I`ll give you the closure, but it won`t be pretty. I`ll tell you exactly why I got bored with you and moved on, to the point where you were probably better off not knowing at all.
In other cases though, as you said, it is a load of crap and it`s almost like playing the martyr. “I am going to hang on till the bitter end until you give me closure, no matter how miserable it makes me or how pointless it is because DAMMIT I DESERVE that CLOSURE!!!!” It’s like saying, “Look how willing I am to continue to be stuck in this devastating rut demanding this person to give me something they don’t want or have to give me.”
It’s ludicrous. And all the while, the predator is devouring the delicious fuel that radiates from a victim who is unable and unwilling to move on.
Good points, B&T. Sometimes I don’t think it’s a case of one or the other (one being the legit “tell me why” form of closure and the other being the kind I described, which is not so much closure as “how do I win you back?”) Sometimes I think those who want it are really after both, or at least, they TELL themselves “I just want to know why and THEN I can finally move on” – and maybe even really believe this, but if they DO get the “why”, then the second, maybe more subconscious reason kicks in.
I’m guessing you have witnessed this when, after much begging and pleading from the person on the receiving end of your deval/discard, you finally tell them the brutal WHY, and then they begin a campaign to try to make things “right” – promising to fix this and work on that.
I provide 50% of the why so they have something to try to fix and still more to keep guessing about. Dangle dangle.
Well put, Cody, and I do agree with what you`re expressing here.
It depends, sometimes the why is delivered so brutally that recovery is even more hindered than it would have been had the person just left it alone.
I refuse to let someone be the martyr after I abandon them, no matter how satisfying their suffering is to me. You want to know why, I will tell you why, and believe me when I say, you`ll probably wish you`d never asked.
I agree with your “how do I win you back” comment as well. In many cases, that’s exactly what it is. “I can’t change if you don’t tell me what went wrong/why it went wrong.”
The problem is, the reasons we give are typically so over the top and out of left field, that it leaves the “victim” feeling even more confused, bewildered and destroyed because they had no idea it was ever that bad. Mostly because it probably never was.
How about if you are just damn tired of the game? I know I am and at this point, this is enough “closure” for me. I am fucking tired of the abuse and the mental fuck. All brought on by me. I take full responsibility of it because I have had the tools for a month now. I stayed and played. Now I am kicking his arse out of my sandbox. I don’t need closure from him.
That’s the spirit steeviann. I can respect your attitude a hell of a lot. Absolutely!
That is so right on! This place helped me STOP DOING THAT! Well said Blood and thunder! Thank you for that concise breakdown of my 19 nervous breakdowns! Our need to know is the most powerful Hoover of them all! It’s great to finally un-plug it!
Wait? Are you are Narc B&T.
No not a narc but something other.
and this might be???
I’ve said before this is not my forum to discuss what I am. This is HG’S space and I remain fiercely loyal to that.
As a result I offer my pov and thoughts but I don’t go any further than that because this space is not for me to do so.
I mean no disrespect to your question steeviann not at all. But my respect for HG trumps your curiosity about me.
I am sure HG would not mind that you call a spade a spade. He would smile with your description of yourself. I am sure he would not be at all worried with your post unless you have made an agreement behind the scenes.
Well put B&T.
Thank you …
HG , strange how I’m seeing narcissists everywhere , can anyone else relate to this ? Or have I just gone mad. Last night the film The Reader was on TV, I’ve seen it before and watched it again . I realised immediately that Kate Winslets character is a narcissist . I didn’t know what one was the first time I watched the film
Most people do not know what a narcissist is. Those who know the word think it means somebody who loves themselves. There are many who create characters for books, screen and film and even the creators do not know that the creation is a narcissist – the creator may describe them as troubled, dangerous, a philanderer, a royal pain in the arse but not realise that he or she is a narcissist. Once you understand what one is and how to spot them you see them everywhere. In your life, in your past, on screen, in books, in public life and so on. The reason is we are everywhere. You just never noticed before. Now you do.
Yes I agree and the fact that she is one in the film and it’s never even mentioned and yet it makes so much more sense now.
HG I need your help to try and get my N to Hoover me ?
Why do you want him to hoover you?
HG because I want to talk to him and I really don’t believe he will ever Hoover me , is there a way that I can try to get him to do that without actually contacting him directly or seeing him. I have unblocked him now , it’s been 3 months , what could I try ? What would work on you ?
Why do you want to talk to him?
HG just listened to your radio interview it was excellent . I am sensing you think it’s not a good idea to talk to him ? Is there a way that you can suggest for me to encourage a Hoover ? I would be very grateful
Thank you I am pleased you enjoyed it. There will be more. I haven’t decided yet whether it is a good or bad thing, I am information gathering.
HG I never knew any of this during our on off on off on off lol relationship . We were childhood friends/little relationship when we were kids and then met up again after not seeing each other for years and then all this happened. I would like him to Hoover so I can have a different conversation with him to all the endless merry go round ones we had , I don’t know if he’s a lesser or a mid he’s also very adolescent in many ways and he’s 48. But I don’t want to reach out to him , I don’t think he ever will and I want the chance to speak to him . But how can it be done without the 5 spheres 🤔
Hi Lisa, see my other response to you dealing with query.
HG, even if this did happen and a woman did everything to fit around the N, and gave them constant love , attention and affection and flattery and everything else they think they want / need , it would still not work. They still then despise you for being so weak and pathetic and you bore them , the challenge is over , they have a robot , no drama , they then start to pick stupid fights to cause arguements . Then want to move onto the next victim , even if the current victim is doing everything they supposedly need and want ?
Why should the way you look at the world be considered as the correct way of doing so? When did you become the arbiter of all? This is the high-handed arrogance which proves the undoing of your kind. Oh you will wail to anyone who will listen at how monstrous you have been treated, how we are evil people and the spawn of Satan. You sit in so-called support forums on the internet decrying our behaviour, writing page after page about what has happened to you and how horrendous you have been treated. All about you isn’t it? Oh I can hear your howls of protest now, at how you are a good person and that you do not hurt anyone. Do you not? How then is it that you injure me with your failure to behave consistently. You call me for it yet you are just as guilty if in fact not more so. You promise me so much at the outset and then you change the way that you behave so you do not give me what you once did. I do not change. I shine and dazzle and soar, but you make it all change, why do you do it? This failure hurts me as you reduce my fuel and force me to punish you for it.
I know you said you have no reason foe triangulation on here. Is this a former of triangulation because you seemed a little on edge yesterday and rightfully so as your type like to be in control and is beholding to no one. Also, there was plenty of ranting. Was their there some injury due to the demands to be heard? Being the higher range it seems more appropriate this way than lashing out individually.
Do you mean is this article a form of triangulation?
Yes..covertly 😊
No, it was written some time ago and for the purposes of a wake-up call.
Reposted at an opportune time. Thanks for responding. I totally appreciate this post a nice kick in the rear is what I need sometimes.
There is none so blind as those that will not see.
You are welcome Entertainment.
If your knowledge of fire has been turned
to certainty by words alone,
then seek to be cooked by the fire itself.
Don’t abide in borrowed certainty.
There is no real certainty until you burn;
if you wish for this, sit down in the fire.
–Rumi
Why do we continue to seek? What is knowledge without application? This posts is so transparent however;because of our need and obesesson to figure things out and seek closure we are missing the very essence of this message. It’s not so much about his world as we are desperately seeking answers. But to take that hard look at self for expecting him to see the world through our eyes.
The normals can never win with you…. Too compasionate and trusting to such a dark hearted person…. I know it’s wrong and still like like a animal trying to bite off its own leg to save its self
With HG or with other Ns.
Its a spectrum dont forget.
I stay with HG 😍
Oh how I wish I could look through your eyes. Then maybe I would know how to communicate with you. If fuel is what you need then fuel is what I will give. I need you in my life. I know this now as there are only two options. I could walk away with no contact and learn to live without you or I can accept you for the narc that you are and learn to live with you. I choose the second option. The silent treatments alone are unbearable. A month of misery without you. I will do anything to prevent them, but I know there will be many more to come. You don’t think I know who you really are and I could never tell you that I know. A part of me still has a little hope that you are not of this kind, that you are just broken and can be healed… wishful thinking. I understand you way more than you know and I’m learning your ways well. Why do I stay? That’s easy… it’s because you always come back to me. They say you wear different masks. I don’t believe that to be true, as I only see one. In a world full of fakes you are the one person who is completely real with me. I don’t need someone to feed me a bunch of fake sweet bullshit just to get in my pants. I need someone to set me straight and not put up with any of my bullshit, someone who’s going to tell me how it is. Yes the punishments suck, but would I learn anyother way? You haven’t given up on me and in return I will not give up on you. I need your fuel just as much as you need mine.
Hello B, thank you for that honest appraisal and it that state of mind which we look to engender. It is fascinating that you regard your hope as wishful thinking but you do not do so entirely, you still nurture that hope and so long as that remains there, you will be attached. Yes, we will always come back to you and in your instance you make it easier for us to do so, thus it happens.
Yes you are correct in saying that I make it easy for him to come back. I do not deny this. There is no need for him to pretend to be someone that he is not so I am sure that only makes it easier. I have accepted him for who he is and he knows that so there is no sugar coating. He has alway been honest with who he is. He has told me about his narcissistic behavior with his ex and past relationships, not leading me to believe that he was the victim like narcs tend to do. So I question is he a narc or just a typical asshole. I believe the word “narc” is over used and people don’t have a true understanding to what that means when they are labeling someone who broke their heart. Either way some would say his behavior is toxic and that I am a fool to stay. I guess I look at things differently than the average person. Showing me your dark side doesn’t scare me… hiding it does. I know what I’m getting with him and there are reasons to why I stay. There is a side of him that draws me close. He gives me what I need. I am not nieve nor am I weak. Loving him is what makes me strong. Maybe my mind is just as twisted as his, maybe I’m just as broken, or maybe I just don’t know what love is. As far as the wishful thinking… my hope is that some day we both will know what true love feels like.
I agree that the label of narcissist is sometimes bandied around in circumstances where it is inapplicable. You are very much in his grip B, that is evident in the way you are thinking but it is your life, you are an adult and if you decide to choose this path that is a matter for you. Nevertheless, I am pleased you chose to share it as it provides another facet to the dynamic between our kind and your kind, so please do continue to contribute as I sense you have much to offer and from a different perspective.
HI B
go for true love and make it a sharing of each others pain but also each others joy and love. With HGs schooling you will know if its a real unbearable PD or you can worh out a relationship where you both cam grow. 🌷 All the best
Hi B. I felt hopeful for my Narc for two years after I discovered the name! I couldn’t believe there was no hope! Hours of you tube videos every day! Searching for Hope. ! I am sicker now, deeper in debt, no fun dates in those 2 years,escalated Narc abuse, all ruined holidays and many many lonely days! When I got too sick to perform or function. My Narc left me alone with a lot of trouble. In the meanest way he could. All these weeks later, I’m getting Hoovered. Keep reading here. Don’t get sick over it. It’s an addiction to them. A chemical reaction. i love my Narcs. I will die from the stress of I stay with them and I will never get well or ever be happy. H.G. Is telling us why. Thank you for sharing
Thank you Heather for your comment. I am a very stubborn person and I do not believe anything unless there is evidence and proof to back it. I am not 100 percent sure that he is fully narcissistic. Yes he shows many signs and will do and say things that leaves no other explanation, but then there are things about him that makes me believe he is not. I am not a doctor so I am not going to diagnose him. I understand the feeling of not being understood. When your mind works differently than those around you. The average mind will never know or understand and when people don’t know or understand something they walk away and give up. So here’s the thing, he is the one person who hasn’t given up on me, what ever the reason may be so I am not going to give up on him. I will educate myself and do what I can to understand. The human mind is a fascinating thing. I find it hard to believe that it is programed to be one certain way. HG do you really believe the word “impossible”? “It’s impossible for a narc to show empathy, it’s impossible for a narc to love, it’s all just impossible!” Who says it’s impossible? Who decided that? I believe anything is possible especially with the human mind. I need to take the time to read more of your blogs before I say too much. I am sure you speak on a lot of the questions and thoughts I have. Thank you for taking the time to reply.
Nothing is impossible. Apart from getting the toothpaste back into the tube.
There are matters which may not be impossible, but their likelihood of ever happening is negligible so as to make it impossible. I look forward to your further questions B.
I tried to see it through your eyes. But even then I could not do this correctly. I have decided I am not the proper fuel source for you. Oh but you think I am? Sorry fellow, I am running on empty. Fresh out. Game over. You had the last drop I can offer. Get it from the one who drinks more then you like. The one that has financial issues. The one that has drama. The one with the house in need of repair. The widow who talks of her late husband to much. Perhaps the German troll, isn’t this how you referred to her, with her mousey look. The cheating ex wife who ignored you. Your sister, the odd girl she is, perhaps she can provide fuel. If I stick around any longer, I am sure I could have provided more to suggest. But Jonathan, that is your name right, I have had my fill of you.
Wow talk about having enough and based on your description he really is german troll is the usual description of a homosexual with the hatred being in his spine expression of monster in law when she started to deal with the jlo character “that temp” she is totally hating her avd that is a typical behavior of a homo who has the robotic tendencies Tudor describes in his blog
Not sure what you are saying. He called her a german troll. He was upset she mislead him with her finances. She was looking for someone that could help her afford her lifestyle.
I cried so much with this clown. I think how he would stare at me like a snake when I cried. He got bigger when I cried.
I have to ask you HG… Now that you have chosen to share with the world what you are and help us do you remain single? Do you avoid dating because you know you cannot help yourself? You know you are incapable of real love and commitment so how do you plan to live out the rest of your life? If you don’t mind my asking.
As and when it suits me. No. I will keep on doing what I do best unless what is currently happening convinces me that there is a viable alternative. No I don’t mind.
H..G. 😎 I can imagine what it would be like if you could buy a programmable stepford wife. That’s easy! The perfect woman designed to please you! FULLY FEELING HI-TECH robot servant woman! Full range of human settings! Adoring, golden heart with shiny eyes and bright smiles looking at you with starry eyes! Best feature on it! Agrees with all your fantasies! Sex kitten mode that worships your body! Little home maker. Perfect wife (or mistress) whatever you want! ! Waiting by the phone, waiting by the window for your magnificence to walk through the door.Thtowing rose petals at you in celebration of your arrival! Running around to make you comfortable! Full body rubs! Sitting at your feet listening to you go on and on about how great you are and everyone knows it! As your robot stares at you in awe and hangs on your every word! You can parade your robot around like a beautiful trophy that belongs to you! She will beam a big white smile and everyone will look at your choice of model and how well you have done to choose her! Of course the man across the room has a red head and you feel envious. NOW THIS one doesn’t look so new anymore compared to THAT one! You are tired and bored of this one. Runs perfectly in all the ways that please you like a King! No matter. You are bored. Now it’s time to stimulate yourself out of boredom as a 10 year old child does with his toys. How cool would it be if you started putting viruses in your robot!!?? Confuse it! Fucking with it and abusing it just because you are bored with this new toy! You haven’t changed the programming of happy adoring wife and the feelings are built into it! You find it amusing to see all the ways you can fuck with this inanimate object now because it’s now fun to see how many ways you can make it cry? How far you can push it and watch the circuits cross! It’s funny to throw it in a hole just to see what it will do! But alas, the fun is over. You finally broke it. It doesn’t respond to your commands anymore. Lights went out. It’s just twitching on the floor now. So you decide to tear it apart piece by piece so you can get the most from the scrap! Besides, you really liked that model Red Head! THAT one is built to last a life time! Guaranteed happiness or your money back! Yeah.. I can imagine it..
I was one of the ones you described HG. Setting up social media accounts to complain, moan and be angry. Until your many posts/books gave me the power to try to look at the world through your/his eyes. And that made all the difference.
Those social media accounts were recently all deleted. And, I’ve learned enough from you to realize my breaking up with him caused a severe narcissistic wound that must have been horrific for him. I DID try to see through his eyes, and allowed his last Hoover to succeed – thus giving him the “power” to go silent & discard me. It matters not to me, he doesn’t realize or expect my indifference. But, I sleep better now knowing that I did my best for both he and I. He has his fuel, and I have my peace of mind – thanks to you.
You are welcome Hope. You have grasped the power that comes through adopting the world view. It need not be permanent but once you manage to achieve this change then you will reap the benefits. It takes time. It is like staring at an optical illusion, some people eventually see it and others just cannot.
I was like you at first, angry and hating all narcs, and my blog reflected that. But at the time, I was newly no contact with my ex, and needed that anger to escape and do what I needed to do. So my narc bashing was therapeutic. The problem is, some site owners remain stuck in that mentality, refusing to even try to understand the narcissistic mind. This eventually turns them narcissistic themselves. For me, getting inside the mind of the “enemy” has made all the difference, and while some people hate my tendency to be a “narc sympathizer,” there are many more people who appreciate the fact I have forgiven them and have empathy for them while still remaining no contact and think that shows that I have grown spiritually and emotionally and not remained stuck in hatred.
Well put.
I have no issue with anybody wanting to vent. If it is aimed at me (even incorrectly) it is fuel.If it is not, the individual is conveying their experience which I am always interested to read about. I know what my kind do and the hatred and the anger is entirely typical and understandable. This can also go on for a long time, indeed we encourage it so you are unable to move forward but I do see in certain instances as kind of satisfaction in staying put and hammering the narc over and over again. Almost as if that person would prefer not to move forward. It suits my kind, by all means carry on. I do find the engagement far more stimulating, interesting and intriguing when those who have been entangled by us start to try to make sense of what has happened to them, start to understand the nature of the monster that targeted them and in so doing learn, apply and achieve freedom. I enjoy the enquiring minds, the challenging propositions and the different theories and analyses that are advanced and I do state with considerable pride that my contributors/commenters/readers here are the best at doing that.
LO, I think a lot of us would be curious as to how you would react if your (hypothetical) sister or daughter or female best friend found themselves entangled with a narc.
I have experienced that in fact. My daughter was recently stalked by one and had to file a restraining order. In fact I was the one who told her to do so, and she also knows about narcissism because I have educated her about it. Anger is good but it’s not meant to be a permanent condition. So, get angry, get away or take any action you must, then move on, forgive, but don’t ever forget. I have forgiven but not forgotten. I pray for them too. That’s all you can do.
Thank you mr willy( hg Tudor) thank you it’s been a rel test…. Goonies you’ve just given me my weapon of escape thank you I just deleted the carpet under his feet for he cannot no longer keep me put hahahaaaaaa deal little sucker I’ve just pronounced myself where I want you not the other way around you little bastard( him) you’re so stupid (him) how does that help you? Hahahaaaaaa the best form of revenge is the self given nothing better than to have your own little terminator ( hg Tudor) I do say it to you with all the love that I posses Tudor hahahaaaaaa
Are you saying you let him Hoover on purpose to deceive him?
In this piece you level the criticism at the empath that we try to impose our world view as the only one. I think this is unfair as how can one appreciate the narcs world view without it first being explained?
Had we not been fortunate enough to stumble across your writings HG, we would still be fumbling about in the dark for an explanation of the unexplainable. Particularly as many of your kind don’t even understand themselves what they are or why they do it.
In your world view, you are omnipotent and omniscient. You consider it your right to do as you please regardless of consequence or the impact on others. How would it be though, if we all shared your world view HG? Where would you then get your fuel?
I am not asking you to adopt it but rather to understand it. There will always be fuel, always.
Thankyou for your clarification HG. Whilst I try to understand your world view and I believe with what I have learned from your writing that I have a fairly good understanding, I will not accept that your abuse of any human being is justified.
I do not accept your superiority, I believe we are all created equal and we all have our own unique talents that we bring to this world and we all deserve to be treated with love and respect particularly by those close to us.
As I have mentioned in this forum before my son is diagnosed with ADHD, Oppositional Defiance Disorder and Atypical Autism. He frequently behaves in a very narcissistic manner. He has a huge sense of entitlement and is an opportunistic thief, he trys to control everyone around him, blame shifting, projecting and smearing and many other abusive behaviours to get what he wants.
He can also be highly charismatic, kind and generous when it suits him. I frequently have to defend him and have had to try to understand his world view to do so. It is extremely similar to your world view HG. But whilst I will always defend him and protect him and try to explain his behaviour to the world, I will never use this as an excuse for him to be abusive of exploitative.
Thank you for your input CR12 which I always find of interest. Naturally we will differ in respect of accepting that my abusive behaviour is justified. The end always justifies the means for me, you look at it differently, I understand that but likewise do not accept that. How old is your son? On what basis do you regard it as acceptable to defend his behaviour (leaving aside the fact he is your son so we can discount blind loyalty) I am interested to know.
Yo him and their kind it’s all about fuel
“Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.” Albert Einstein
Buddhist day this as well. If reality is an illusion then why does it hurt when I pinch myself? That is not an illusion
Clary,
That’s your reality, mind over matter. You pinch and feel others cut and there’s no feelings Numb.
Pinch your mind and teller what you feel. Your Buddhists and Homo comment ???
Buddhist day this as well. Is this your reality or are you delusional?
I already have contentment beyond anything I imagined was possible and my feelings can come and go as they please, I am no longer bothered by them. I could quite happily hit the cruise control and just stay here just living, just being, just being free.
I used to be like a huge wave in the ocean crashing on a bleak winter’s day and now I am a ripple of clear ocean lapping on a white, sandy, tropical beach, basking in the sunshine. It’s an awesome transformation!
But the fire within me is not content with this freedom. It’s done with waves; big ones or little ones and will continue to consume me until there is no wave left and all is ocean. This ripple is still trying to be a ripple though, mustering all its strength against the ocean, even though it knows it’s no match for its overwhelming power.
I do know, however, that everything has to be faced, whatever is deep and hidden, right up and including the biggest fear of all; fear of no more me. No more wave or ripple.
Freedom is only freedom because there is bondage. They are conditional on each other; this is how duality manifests. The greater freedom I experience, so the greater the bondage is felt.
Many (not all!) of the victim support boards are run by covert narcissists themselves who present themselves as victims and don’t even have the self awareness to see their own narcissism. They never take responsibility, are never wrong, they are poor helpless souls who never did an evil deed in their lives, and you, as an N, are the Devil. They can see only in black and white, never any shades of grey. They are quick to gaslight and triangulate anyone who disagrees with their limited worldview. They are cliquish and will freeze you out and tell lies about you. I know, because as a blogger who writes a victim support board but who ALSO sees Ns as victims too, and has some empathy for them, I have been the target of some of these said victim support bloggers. I could write a whole book about my experience. I have met self aware Ns who are nicer people than some of these covert narcissists and borderlines who wear their poor helpless victim mask and blather on about how evil all Ns are while playing every game in the narcissist’s playbook. They are hypocrites and wolves in sheeps’ clothing. At least with you, we get the wolf right in our face, but he’s not attacking and there may even be a sheep hiding underneath.
There are many shades of grey in human beings, and no one is all good or all bad. We are all on a spectrum. Some hide their true natures very well indeed. Seriously, people need to drop this stupid “us versus them” mentality and realize we have all been victimized and did the best we could to cope, whether we have NPD or C-PTSD. Of course, my conviction about this doesn’t go over too well with the narc-bashing bloggers.
Are you referring to that bpd site ? Yep the head honcho is definitely a narc.
Really? How do you know?
Yes TT, do spill.
Twinketoes–I’m sorry — I replied to your question in my notifications and didn’t notice the comment was made here and not on my site. I thought you were referring to the BPD article I just reblogged last night. So let me change my reply.
No, I am not referring to any BPD site. I can’t name the bloggers here but the ones I’m referring to are on Blogger, not WordPress. And no, these bloggers would never even admit it if they have BPD. They think borderlines are almost as evil as narcs. To admit they are BPD or NPD themselves would f*ck up their us vs. them mentality — they must always be on the “good” and “godly” side (a few of them are really religious too, quoting the Bible left and right) and therefore would never identify as having any cluster B disorder. Because that would make them one of “them,” you see. But if you’re paying attention it’s obvious they are narcs. I could give you many examples.
Go on LO, I sense I may need to be making some visits.
PLease do!
Ha ha just point me in the right direction.
I don’t know about the BPD site Twinketoes referred to but I was referring to a few of the victim boards. They’re not on WordPress but I can’t name who they are, sorry.
Oh I don’t expect you to name them. I know where they are.
🙂 I’m sure you do. There are four (maybe five) and they stick together like dogshit sticks to you shoe.
Ha ha indeed.
The advantage of quoting left and right the bible is that they can’t give revelation of it because they’re not equipped to do so someone like me is they just quote like mimicking what they see and repeat like cockatoos whet they hear and learn without any essence someone genuine and well intended will understand the bible better than anyone if the lord pleases himself to do so but they won’t no matter how much they know the bible it is the quality of the Christian that brights on true treasure if hearts bit in pigsty
I feel like I’m watching an episode of desperate housewives not the reality show but the series
Excellent LO. I love the ” Us vs them” mentality sentence.
When I started this investigation on NPD I decided to join some facebook groups and I did join many, in fact all I found but after a week or so there, I thought to myself without knowing alot about the subject that the so called victims were also narcissists… I thought. Was very confusing. They talked with such evilness about their ex N and in addition sometimes the so called victims disagreed with each other and ended up calling each other lots of names, the C word, the F word, and everything ended up getting deleted by the administrator hours after.
So ridicoulous. I agree with you. Many of the victims of N forums are covert Ns.
Yes, the narc bashing and hatred is rampant on some of those Facebook victim support groups. Those groups are like snakepits. I stay away from them.
Me too. I stayed a week or 2 and then left them all.
Very good people get “drafted” everyday. I am an empath with the devil in my DNA. If you put me on the beach of Normandy on D day I will become a more ruthless than any narcissist I have ever known, and I have know every variety. Take me into a war and you will see hell. I watched one of my narcs get loaded into a ambulance over and over with panic and chest pains. I’ve watched their heads explode with anger while I had a smirk on my face. I’ve heard them say “you’re breaking me down until there is nothing left””, sheet white in a clammy cold sweat. Sure, it wasn’t great for my health, but you know what’s worse? Being a passive “sitting target” saying why me?. I’m sorry, wait, no I’m not. I do understand your kind and oh how I wish more empaths would turn the tables. Oops, accidentally pocket dial him up then watch HIM blow your phone up for a week because this narcissist has finally met someone who can fan their fires of self loathing into an inferno. Angry? Nope. Closet narc? Nope (:I’ve been checked:). Codependency is just finding someone to hate yourself vicariously through. You want to project that on to me I’ll magnify it and mirror it back times a million…. Watch out, incoming.
Always I thank you HG, for your work. I wonder what kind of fuel is in being the KING because you KNOW you are putting a lot of your kind out of business, and that has to be wicked good fun.
Hello Amy, a fascinating response, I would relish meeting you. I am pleased that you find my work valuable. I do enjoy being the puppetmaster as I hand various weapons to the empaths out there to deploy against my kind and then standing back and watching the outcome. It is time so of our brethren raised their game.
Thank you HG. We should have tea. I’m grateful for this place of learning and healing. Perhaps a screen play about the Mr. & Mrs. Smith of narcissists and empaths would be a very fun endeavor. I own you an e-mail. You maintain a great page here, I’m so happy to have found it.
Amy
Thank you Amy, how polite and civilised. You know I have always wanted to invite a vicar for tea (I would do it on a different occasion to when you and I take tea) so I could say to him,
“More tea vicar.”
I am laughing even now as I write that line.
What type of tea do you drink?
Well said Amy! I love that empowered feeling to! Sam Vankin says it’s good to Rage back at the Narcissists! Flip the mirror!
Rage all you like at us. It is fuel.
I myself learned this mirror trick as well. Quite handy, I must say.
We get to gripe because you are the only Narc on the planet opening the lid on the big FUEL secret. All your brethren are too busy doling out silent treatments, having temper tantrums, or like mine, giving long winding monologues with some global concepts but not really looking for a real dialouge to exchange feelings or resolve conflicts with some compromise. They don’t give a world view. We could then handle it. We get nonsensical projections. You see, it’s back to being all their fault H.G. 😉
To be fair, mlclarece, HG isn’t the ONLY narcissist opening the lid on the truth, but he’s the best at it. Sam Vaknin does the same, but he’s less fun to read (and isn’t as good a writer, IMO). He also is quick to offense and will attack you like a pit viper if you offend him, even for imaginary offenses. He blocked me on Facebook for nothing at all! It makes me laugh now, but at the time I was flummoxed and upset about it. I understand he does this to a lot of people, lol! There are a few other Ns with websites but they’re not very good. HG should be THE go-to source for people who want to learn all about the inside workings of the narcissistic mind.
Thank you LO. The Five Rules are doing their job at the very least!
Very much this. Here we get to learn, work through our feelings, vent, bounce ideas and experiences around and try to find that ever elusive perspective and understanding. I appreciate the way you present how you see things and what you do.
It helps to see things in terms of fuel and energy supply, as just that much change in perspective automatically helps remove emotional impact and reduce the quality/quantity of supply i can give. I haven’t found that on any other blog or site yet.
Chastising me for doing something and then doing the very same thing…my mother loves to tell me when I’m $3,000 US dollars in credit card debt like it’s a bad thing, but somehow it’s ok for her to be $90,000 US dollars in credit card debt. It’s bad when I have credit card debt (according to her) because that could mess up my future, but she thinks it’s ok for her to rack up credit card debt because she’s redoing the basement/buying gifts for my sister’s kids/booking a trip to Atlantic City/buying ANOTHER handbag, etc.
That’s my exact same czar that’s why you should stay away from her it is a strategy and if you’re not careful and you both use same account she’s going to gut you off when you most need the cash and is not about being gold diggers is about fulfilling a need however if you don’t share accounts do separate from her as much as possible keep it to as less as possible your contact with her. Now he’ll is going to explode and theyll call you bad daughter but don’t let guilt eat you alive that’s just their shallow feelings resisting to your boundaries if dignity which “hurts their pride” but don’t feel bad they hurt us not genuine is greed and not being able to take the fact that you have s dignity which “hurts their feelings” but that had nothing to do with them so stand your ground like resistance to as the opposite make it worse for them and he’ll leave you alone. Being surrounded by too many controllers is dangerous , you’ll be constantly full of venom
Magnificent and beautiful. I did stay in this blog to understand what was going on my life. Afterwards I fell in love with you way of writing, afterwards I wanted to learn all about your kind to understand them and and to be able to have enough knowledge to get along in the best way possible.
I see how you long for understanding.
I agree that those blogs that talk about Narcissists being demons dont help.
As all there are people who understand and others not.
Sorround yourself with those who understand HG. who will see your sense of grandiosity as its is and your other characterisics that you were given by life.
💝💝💞🌷
I confess I do not like that image as I have seen those eyes long long ago. Now I dare so Will I again tonight.
I see you are determined to impregnate your self upon us in a certain form. Perhaps a more soothing image for the next one, pretty please.
“Do not Seem to to realize you do it”…is it not all carefully calculated? I rather enjoy the banter, I am used to chastisement.
Do they not impose each other’s values one another, in an attempt for some form of mediation or conciliation. I will admit. I do sometimes forget others are not of the same mindset of me. I state mine, I do not impose it upon others.
I am happy to concede, as long as I can make my point. I will give you credit HG, do always allow me to make my point, even when you disagree. So I am grateful. Am I a thorn in the Beast side?
I have never decried anyone evil, least of all someone I loved. In the same token, I know I do not behave. I am willful and defiant by nature. Which does not negate loyalty, respect or love. I don’t seek sympathy, I seek solace,
Your eyes above do not have pupils, so what again will I be seeing ? How about you see for me and guide me to where I need to go. Like a little lamb in your flock. Try to steer me from that Going Down topple, though. I could be seriously harmed.
This could have been written for me, was it? Just kidding.
If this picture would be in black and white it would look like a mad owl
I try to picture this image in black and white and I see a wolf in he night waiting for its prey expression . Whenever he looked at me like this or somewhat lie this I thought he was thinking if jumping on me and having laviroush sex or romance eating me alive sexually. Actually he never looked at me like this if it wa anything like it it was like a lion and it seemed romantic but my heart is too broken to see
Wow,
Who pissed in your cheerios? Shoot that poison arrow….into your own heart. Twist and shout, bark at the moon because u just made pretzels. if you believe that we are whiny babies not looking at it from your perspective, think again. U just put that shit on us and blame gamed it. Who’s pity party is it? U make money off of every person here. U get paid to give your view (fuel) you get and you take. U are a taker. We are the givers. Yes we get it that it boils down to u being selfish, arrogant, haughty. We don’t get why you cannot feel. Why are you damaged. U think we are damaged? Works both ways. Why can’t u see our view? U don’t care. We know. We get it. It’s all fun and games. We got bamboozled. We weren’t smart enough to figure out u were a taker. But guess what. We got smarter, we educated ourselves, we used knowledge to see through you. Now we know. Now the playing field is leveled. Yes u are not the only narcissist out there revealing your mind. We have plenty of others to choose from. We are loyal. Something u know nothing about. Is it a crime? Are you a smooth criminal? I say yes. But don’t underestimate your “fan base” we can rip u down as quickly as we built you up. Who’s your Daddy? Wow. Who pissed in my cheerios?
If you have so many to choose from, why are you here?
Legitimate question, not even trying to instigate or anything. Honest….
He pissed on his own Cheerios and blamed us everyone
Hey ABB…You are not smarter and you ought to continue educating yourself. You’ve obviously missed the best part…??? The truth.
Hahahaaaaaa are you nuts? Yes you are like you would be honest with me yeah….. Right…… A pathological compulsive liar is going to be honest with me after 14 years of lies … Suuuuuuuuuuuuuureeee
Amazing, that’s how i feel.
I know why you do it and I do understand. I’m not on these forums for sympathy or to wallow in self pity! You were born or was nurtured this way. Possibly endured some kind of abuse yourself! I’m not on here to judge! I am on here to learn your game! Your techniques. To protect myself and my family in the future. And anyone else that I might be able to help. I was not broken.
Me too