Vulnerable
Do you remember those early, heady days when I first began to seduce you? Of course you do. Those moments have been branded into your memory and can never be erased, no matter how hard you try. So wonderful were those initial months of our courtship as we began our dance together that you cannot help but recall them and feel that bittersweet tinge. Many times as you have fought through your devaluation and discard you have harked back to those magical moments as you sought some kind of solace from them. Somehow, as you sat with tear-stained cheeks you would force a smile through the misery as you latched on to remembering the things that I said to you, those beautiful, loving and mesmerising words which gripped your heart and took it heavenward. It was impossible to resist the love-bombing which I unleashed upon you and similarly it is impossible for you to banish those memories as you sit amongst the debris of our relationship wondering what on earth has happened. You can easily be forgiven for seeking refuge from the misery amongst those golden thoughts. It is the obvious thing to do to try and take away the searing pain which now burns you. Naturally, this is all something which I planned and is a natural consequence of becoming entangled with me. Do not feel any shame in the fact that you keep running to those thoughts and taking hold of them as you seek to ease your agony. Keep doing it. All the others did and all the others will.
As you walk through those wonderful thoughts and memories, replaying our time together like an incessant loop of our “best of” moments do you recall what else you did during this seduction? Can you remember something else that was happening as we created these scintillating memories? Yes, I know you can remember, how could you forget? It was one of the many things that I did for you which drew you closer to me and made you fall oh so deeply in love with the illusion. What was it that I did? I made you feel safe. I created that sanctuary and opened the door and ushered you in. I showed you how this gleaming and beautiful paradise was impregnable to the wretched and woeful world beyond. I assured you that being in here with me meant that you need never worry about those things again. I would keep the wailing tormentors from your door and ensure that those things did not trouble you anymore. That was the sole condition for entry into this haven that I had constructed for you. Tell me about those things so I can shield you from them. You had never had someone make such a sacrifice for you before. The way we understood how badly those things affected you. We really seemed to grasp the impact that those things had had upon you as we listened with patience and comprehension. You were hesitant at first, the mere act of recollection being one that caused you consternation. You had no issue in confiding in us, no that was not the issue. We had banished any concerns you may have had about trusting us with these secrets within moments, such was our assured charm. No, what troubled you was bringing those dark memories, those fragile foibles to the surface once again. Yet as the words came from your mouth and the tears trickled down your cheeks you felt the cathartic effect of off-loading all of those things to us. From the minor concerns through to the deep-seated and life changing troubles you conveyed each and every one to us and it felt wonderful to do so. The burden came away from you and for the first time ever you felt freedom from those things as you passed the baton onto us and we readily took it from you. You exorcised those ghosts and stepped into our sanctuary elated and delighted to have been able to purge those things from yourself and embrace a new start with us. For too long those things had held you back. For too long you had walked a rocky road alone, stooped and bent double under the weight of your concerns. There had been others but you did not feel able to share the load as you did with me. I was different. There was something about me which made you feel like you could tell me anything and everything and I would deal with it. I would flex those angelic wings and extend them to surround and protect you. Unburdened by those things you walked taller, felt stronger and you had me to thank for this process. Your gratitude and admiration flowed incessantly and I was only too happy to wash myself in this fountain of praise although in keeping with the personae I had created I accepted your compliments with humble acknowledgement. You entered my sanctuary and told me all your weaknesses.
This was achieved in such a way that you felt no shame in telling me them. That was another difference. You knew I would not judge you for them. You knew I would not regard you as silly or stupid for having certain concerns.
“It is how you regard them that matters, not how everyone else views them.”
You remember that sentence and how you seized it with great gladness, thankful that at last somebody understood and recognised how to deal with your concerns. Your confidence in me was absolute and I even made it seem as if actually liked your weaknesses and that gave you great comfort.
All I was doing as you sat there on those many occasions where you shared your concerns, your vulnerabilities and weaknesses with me (for they did not all come out in one session, no, it took weeks of careful extraction on many different occasions to amass them all) was stockpiling my armoury. Your admission that you cannot swim and thus are terrified of deep water was moulded into a missile. Your explanation that you were bullied at school because you had short hair arising from having to have it shorn because your brother poured glue over your head one time became a hand grenade. The fact you suffer a noticeable red flush across your chest and neck when you feel agitated created a bullet. Your confession that you suffer excessive wind formed another bullet. The abuse you suffered at the hands of a family member when you were eight became a thermonuclear device ready to detonate at a later date. Each and every weakness, from your inability to resist eating a packet of biscuits in one sitting through to your fear of public speaking was noted, recorded and fashioned into a weapon. You thought you were safe in the sanctuary. That was just an illusion. You were actually sat in my armoury and I was there with you creating these weapons to use against you at a later date. Each weakness you admitted to me you thought you were handing to me for me to carry on your behalf. The reality was you were giving me the material from which I could create a weapon – be it a sharp stick with which to prod you or a nuclear missile to obliterate you. You thought it was some form of absolution but all you were doing was arming me.
I always want to know about your weaknesses. Your weaknesses become forged into my strengths in readiness for the war of devaluation that I shall wage against you. Keep talking, there is an arsenal to be created.
86 thoughts on “Vulnerable”
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“Keep talking, there is an arsenal to be created.” This is the reason I hate to share my life stories and experiences with others. They will be used against me even if I had done nothing wrong.
HG can you explain the difference between malignant and covert is that the 2 types . I know there’s somatic and all of that . But is malignant worse than covert and how can you tell the difference ?
Hi Lisa, I do not talk in terms of malignant and covert. I refer to Lesser, Mid-Range (where something akin to the covert can be found) and Greater (the greater is malign) and then the cadres Victim, Somatic, Cerebral and Elite. The content of various blog articles will give you further insight as to the differences between the schools. Have you read Sitting Target at all?If you haven’t, this will shed more light on the cadres for you as well.
HG are you still digesting my questions as well? I suppose I’m impatient. My N always said I was. I know you have a life to live as well. I’m just highly interested and value your opinion.
I am.
To answer the question no I have not recently left him… It is in the works. Need to get the housing situations buttoned up. I have a Therapist that I will be seeing this week. HG thank you for the post of walking through hell. The toughest part lies a head of me. Neither of them want me to leave but I can not stay. This is mentally killing me.
This is one of the many emails he sent following his exit. Thank you for taking the time to read it.
C,
sending me those pictures of “2 men” must show how hurt and angry you are. they don’t bother me now because it shows what you feel and think, not what is real. how do I know this? because it is the only reason that can make sense to you of why you felt rejected by me. I loved you and still do with all my heart but sadly have been forced to let go. I had my issues with you about intimacy, trust, acceptance as you became emotionally withdrawn and replaced it with anger, resentment. even as I read what I’m writing I still love you but must find the strength of letting go and the pain and feeling of a deep loss. someday I hope you can find that right person if it is meant to be. I know I wasn’t. if I was we would have found the courage faith & commitment to have a relationship so rich in love passion and desire. In the end when your mind was made up that I’m a repressed gay, you must feel so much pain and terror. if only you had the courage to look within rather than make up something on the outside to “cut the problem” I am now coming to terms with feeling discarded by you. i wish i could say our marriage broke down, or we were not compatible or too different or we jumped into marriage too soon. but those reasons don’t work. you wanted out once yor mind was made up by your own reasoning. nothing or no one can break down those walls of yors. i will always love you C, i do and still do. I got to love you for a brief time and maybe that was all you could give before other feelings began to take hold of you. I have my fears and insecurities that you have already found another man to give you what you felt i refused you. that’s ok. When i am feeling confident and good about myself i will attract a woman who trusts me, desires me, respects me and in return she will never feel rejection or fear of abandonment. i will feel the same from her. no rejection or disrespect. If ever you want to talk and open up i will be waiting. i will open up too. i have a terrible fear of abandonment. it is so terrifying to me. i am going to conquer that by living in my own home and be independent now. i am actually grateful now to have my own place and choices. i will say this again. C, I still love you, and maybe some day you might be willing to feel the same. as for now i know you don’t. that’s ok. if you have moved on already with another man, i understand. i don’t want to know, too painful and raw right now. good bye and God bless you C. “always & forever”
Hello Mary,
The reference to feeling hurt and angry is projection on his part but there follows denial when he states that the pictures no longer bother him, although they will do.
By referring to “the only reason that can make sense” is suggesting that your approach defies logic.
“I loved you” read I loved your fuel.
When he makes reference to the issues it is further projection.
“even as I read what I’m writing I still love you but must find the strength of letting go and the pain and feeling of a deep loss” – please feel sorry for me and by the way you are a bitch for making me feel weakened.
” In the end when your mind was made up that I’m a repressed gay, you must feel so much pain and terror. if only you had the courage to look within rather than make up something on the outside to “cut the problem” – for you to come up with something as ridiculous of that, there is something seriously wrong with you. You are weak but I am brilliant because hey, I understand you are weak, why else would you make things up.
” I am now coming to terms with feeling discarded by you. i wish i could say our marriage broke down, or we were not compatible or too different or we jumped into marriage too soon. but those reasons don’t work. you wanted out once yor mind was made up by your own reasoning. nothing or no one can break down those walls of yors” – I am really pissed off that you have brought this about and I am telling you what I will now be telling anybody else who will listen about how crazy your decision making is and that you are hard work, but you know what I tried and she (you) didn’t.
” i will always love you C, i do and still do. I got to love you for a brief time and maybe that was all you could give before other feelings began to take hold of you. ” – I loved your fuel. I will hoover you.
“When i am feeling confident and good about myself i will attract a woman who trusts me, desires me, respects me and in return she will never feel rejection or fear of abandonment. i will feel the same from her. no rejection or disrespect” – I am a good catch baby and you fucked up. Well too bad because someone else will appreciate me and I will triangulate you in the future, you can bet on that.
“If ever you want to talk and open up i will be waiting. i will open up too. i have a terrible fear of abandonment. it is so terrifying to me” = here’s a wedge to keep the door open for a hoover and I also want you to feel sorry for me.
“. i will say this again. C, I still love you, and maybe some day you might be willing to feel the same. as for now i know you don’t. that’s ok. if you have moved on already with another man, i understand” – I still want you fuel, so I will hoover you but I want you to come crawling back first. Oh and do tell me if there is someone else I want to know.
” i don’t want to know, too painful and raw right now. good bye and God bless you C. “”” – I do want to know but again I want you to feel sorry for me. I hate you for what you have done.
“always & forever” – you belong to me forever.
Mary, thank you for sharing that personal message. I love when we get real life scenarios for H.G. to disect and for us to sink our teeth in to learn from. When you remove his commentary, the message gives an overall tone that there is just this tragic love gone awry and if only, if only, if only, of course all things you would have to fix to mend his rawness and broken heart. It would completely keep me frozen and holding on.
I love H.G.’s one interpretation beginning with “you bitch”. There’s a reality check.
Thank you Clarece, I am always content to decipher such messages for people.
Thank you for taking the time to pick that email apart. I wrote some crap the other night to you. I was drinking and upset because I ran into his new victim and I was shocked by how unattractive she was! I mean she had chins man! LOL!!! I have had to fight the urge not to text him and laugh at him! More cushin for the pushin! LOL!!! Thank you again HG. You never said if you pegged him for a lesser or mid range, he is certainly not an elite.
You are welcome. I would gauge him to be Mid Range. Don’t be surprised by Chin Lady, have another read of Have You Seen Who He is With?
I will read it again, and thanks! My friends believe he chose chin lady because she will be easier to control and she’ll just be greatful to have him or she has money. I know him and he will be calling her a fat pig before long, Sad scene it will be. I just have to find a way to move on, your books have helped so much. I have decided to buy Fuel next.
Hahahaha. I have been reading the comments on here but not responded to any but I had to do so with this letter. This is EXACTLY the email I got from my narc ex with a few words removed. Honestly it reads like a script. I wonder if there’s a school that they all go to because they all seem to exhibit exactly the same behaviour, say the same things, act the same way..
Is Tubby evil?
I am not sure that someone running around with a big mac down his pants could be considered evil (that comment will be posted in due course). He gives me the impression of being a Lesser with his frequent tantrums and he is certainly nasty, but I wouldn’t consider him to be evil.
Twinkletoes, u always make me laugh. Thank you. I know it’s terrible to be involved in a bad relationship, but the things u call your N…..lol is your Narcs name Ronald McDonald or Grimace or just Tubbys?
HG,
I’m having a lot of pain, physical pain today. MY view herein everyone…… Upon reading this I really had a hard time emotionally. Idk if it’s because I can usually disassociate feelings and just view what you write as informative, just words not real feelings. I look at you as never really feeling anything deep but yet you feel so much and so deep that you compile the Arsenal. Its confusing. I guess it’s no wonder pain in any format is horrid. And I too have done as u do. With no remorse. I know I can’t know why u feel as u do. I know that I suffered so much hurt and that I felt too deep so i waged war. I didn’t know the difference between anger and hurt. I learned that the hurt is fueled, as is the kindness fueled, by others emotional reactions to me. This process of emotional ping pong is unhealthy and all I was ever doing was giving control to everyone I was involved with by playing with their emotions and reactions. I allowed their behavior to control. I thought I was in control of them. I’d punished or rewarded the responses. Didn’t i become just like Narc Parents? They thought they controlled me. I got free of this behavior. I have a healthy marriage. I don’t want healthy all the time, sometimes. I will let u file the fact that I literally cried when I read this post. I’m going to say again it’s because I’m in physical pain today because I don’t feel anything and yet I feel everything. I wish I could trust, I wish you could too. Let’s just be and not try to worry about thinking 10 steps ahead. Let’s take the leap of faith. If we die, didn’t we have fun?
Thank you ABB, the thing is I am programmed to think ten steps ahead. That is how I defended myself and now it is how I attack in order to defend myself. It is all I know.
For now.
HG,
I got a 10 step program for u…lol! Oh and have I grown past u? Naw can’t be. Can it? 👏💙
H G, I would love to post a letter he wrote me shortly after I removed him from my life. It is classic projection, blame shifting lunacy. I would be interested to hear what you think of it. If it is not too much trouble.
By all means.
Guess it was not overly interesting but thanks for your time.
It is in moderation Mary, it will be tomorrow before I can digest it.
The most famous words I ever heard was that I will never ask you to leave… Those words haunt me as I continue down this very dark Path which has become even darker. I long for The golden period and my heart hurts so much. Constant battle of depression and the will to keep going…. I take it minute by minute most days……
As Winston Churchill declared, “if you are going through hell, keep going.” Keep reading Jessica as this will bring understanding and from that comes freedom.
Hi Jessica,
Have you just recently parted from him? The early days of recovery are the hardest but in time yiu will get better and start ️Healing bit by bit. Self care is the best thing you can give yourself now. Are you able to see a good therapist? Also, good nutrition and sleep and walks in nature as well as journaling and self forgiveness. It’s not your fault. You will feel like it is for a while but that’s the nature of being with a disordered person. Please take good care and KNOW you can and will move past this ordeal.
What an …..
This is E.X.A.C.T.L.Y. what happened to me.. I can remember sitting for hours and hours on end… crying my eyes out and telling him all the things that I had dealt with in my life.. and he acted as if he really understood and that he was on my side and that I was perfect even though all of this had happened….. and looking back I see it was completely one sided…. The only thing I knew about him was that his ‘crazy’ ex wife had abused him and controlled him and finally kicked him out and he was in so much pain. But he was trying to forgive her and move on.. A 26 year old marriage took him exactly 6 months to get over… What a bunch of lies he was telling.. she’s not crazy and neither am I 16 years later… H.G. you are such a gift for us as we heal from these abusers..
Thank you Maria, I appreciate you letting me know.
I’ll provide You with weapons to create Your arsenal… but You will have no need to use them….
HG I noticed Foolme1time mentions her Narc also helped provide her with an arsenal as well. I believe mine did too. He is married 2 another so those dark secrets and vulnerabilities (or so I thought) could be used against him. Is it your understanding that a mid-range Narc would make his vulnerabilities known or would they have been lies for the seduction? Vulnerabilities included how many other women he’d been with, etc. (which was an astronomical number and seemed way far off to believe). I received his rage and fury at ‘poking the bear’ on this very thing at one time. Was that rage just to get fuel or was I treading to close to exposure and received his just punishment?
The Mid-Range would do it for sympathy however any actual vulnerabilities would appear during moments of the loss of control such as being drunk or weak through a lack of fuel. The comment about the number of women he had been with being a weakness was a boast designed to test your reaction to knowing how many partners he had had. If you suggested his boast was lie, then you criticised him and ignited his fury, hence the response.
Spot on . Amazing writing . I lived these words – shattering my very core . Hg your words will hopefully help me recover .
Thank you Christine and yes through reading my works you will achieve understanding which will set you on the path to freedom.
Huh, the only man who has made me feel safe has been my father. I, Me, Moi, has been the one who has let the men I’ve let in my inner sanctum feel safe. Must be why I heard from not one but two of them this past weekend. Again. I must do it extremely well. Beloved (lol) JN but also the one previously who’s off in Cali with the purse dog millennial.
All of the “weaknesses” as you refer to them, I would simply call obstacles I’ve overcome, making them strengths.
This “arsenal” you speak of? Let’s explore this.
Hypothetically, let’s say I had to go for a double core and stereotactic breast cancer biopsy a few months ago. And let’s say hypothetically that there’s some minimal scarring I’m now self-conscious about. I share that with you. Are you telling me I can expect to have that somehow thrown in my face as some kind of weakness? Are you freaking kidding me? Newsflash, it’s a strength and brave that I allow that open honesty to exist between us. It was a painful obstacle leading to a successful cancer-free result. It would make you the biggest D-bag on the planet if you do in fact twist those kinds of things into your arsenal. Hypothetically speaking.
Hmmm, no comment to this one HG? Interesting.
Hi clarence
You are growing silent. You used to comment alot before. Why no comment to this one if I may ask?
She has posts in moderation Nikita and is busy saving North America today.
Hahaha really?because of the pictures of Donals trump wife
Hello Nikita! Very sweet of you to reach out. I was actually questioning HG why he had no comment to mine above that he chose to leave unanswered this time. lol
As far as not commenting as much…I’m healing and crossing over. Over the last year, H.G. has provided so much insight and answered every single one of my questions, much of what I could ask now would just be a variance on something he has posted earlier and answered for me already.
I am mainly curious on future writings specific to him now, like Lost Boy, The Creature, MatriNarc (especially that one). I just don’t want to be redundant and repeat myself if he’s already answered my question directly to me or through someone else’s question. I’m not feeling nearly as agonizing lost as I was a year ago, or even 6 months ago. I am still hearing from JN but HG has me 99% convinced it is malign hoover attempts and he really has no intention to ever reignite the relationship nor was it ever based on his side for caring about me. So I’m not getting that rush of emotion when I hear from him. Plus I now know a pillar I can go for if he pushes me too hard. Plus reading some blogs trigger the old feelings which are not that far under the surface yet and my old fun self is returning and getting out more again with friends. All is well! I appreciate you thinking of me.
Good to hear from you Clarence. Good to hear its getting better also with your emotions. Slowly almost everyone here recovers and that is good 🙂
My narc was a cop and he always told me that if I get interrogated, to deny, deny, deny. So when he started pressuring me to admit to certain things, no doubt to use it against me at a later time, my instinct kicked in and took his advice and denied, denied, denied.
And in the aftermath, with regard to the recipient of this relational emotional destruction; if we have truly learned from it, we discover that by deliberately and intentionally lending “more ear-time” listening during the countless hours of early relational dialogue in a new relationship verses facilitating “spilling my guts ALL about me” in which; for some (like me), find it very easy to do, we are creating healthy boundaries that will allow many of the “Red-Flags” of our beautiful toxic relational counterpart to begin to reveal themselves. In this early premeditated and deliberate offense of discernment we may discover the “toxic” person, earlier rather than later, in lieu of a “healthy” relational potential. And if the latter prevails, then maybe further discern forward and pursue “with caution” always applying your “new relational tools” ahead of you like sonar.
Listen and acknowledge and identify it as toxic. ?? If you have not read TOOL KIT… But I learned here the gut feeling.
Learn by doing. There was once a reader here who sent me a nice message and within this nice message there was a very painful sentence.. At firsf I was so confused. Is this meant really nice ?? Or not?
Then I really decided to listen to me and felt .. Its not nice at all, in fact really really mean.. And funny enough it was my main vulnerability at the moment…
Its not so easy Roger. i would say listen to your instincts when there is the suspicion if its nice or not.
Can I ask you a favor please. English is not my mother toungue so can you simplify your English a little bit 😃😃😃
Thank you Nikita. You are absolutely correct about it NOT being easy for sure. I am 59yrs old and just recently discovered all this in retrospect over 51yrs of relational disorder. For my original emotional childhood core trauma begat itself around age 8, hated my Nfather for the next 30yrs finally releasing that bondage, then lost my marriage of 32yrs choosing a NWife, then choosing a Ngirlfriend for the last 6yrs. In these last 6yrs has came my revelation of “my” disorder as a codependent “choosing” to serve a NPerson. For I am a “Fixer/Rescuer.” NOW, I have finally rescued myself and intrinsically created a “tool kit” of knowledge, building it through my history of mistakes and godsent persons such as HG, +2500hrs of clinical research of Toxic Persons and ALL of you. And I thank you from the bottom of my heart for this endearing community of people have helped me to identify, heal and recover. For you are truly a sincere blessing to me.
Thanks for your answer and all the best in your recovery :-). Believe in love and have faith that good things will come to you. 🙂
So true Roger. I practice this more and more in the dating world, it’s amazing how useful active listening proves to be in dodging those cyanide laced bullets. I also tended to talk a lot (trying to put the other at ease) and over share in the beginning but I’m wiser now. One such bullet recently flew past me when I let him lead the conversation by telling me all about his “hateful, selfish and spooked brat SOON TO BE ex wife” and all the dynamics between her, him and her hateful family – especially her Mother in law who simply was a selfish controlling bitch because her son “Joe” had died and objected to his naming his first child Joe against her wishes and so just to teach her a lesson he named his daughter Josephine! As I listened to this over the phone I was standing in front of the mirror mouth agape and eyes wide open and literally put my hand over my mouth so he woukdnt hear me chuckle at his own burial!!! The icing on the cake was when he shared his ex had the nerve to tell him he had an anger problem…he said he’s just a “passionate man” LOL. After the 20 minute diatribe he says “now I’ve gone on enough- tell me about you”. I had to go. LOL.
Thank you Bethany. This is such a perfectly refined example of our liberation from relational NTyranny and a turn toward our newly acquired “Gladiator-Self!” I could not be more enthused with your beautiful Independence of Defense.
This was creepy, HG. But true, sadly.
Cruel, there is no other word to describe this abuse of trust.
How would it feel to you HG, if we were to take what we know about the injuries you have suffered in your past and use it in the same.way against you?
The fact is CR12 that I would ensure that you would not dare to do so and if you were indeed foolhardy your behaviour would result in you being smeared for your treachery and the ignition of my fury from your traitorous behaviour would bring a most malicious and devastating response against whoever the transgressor was. I would not be the one who would be left broken by this seditious action. I understand however why you might suggest a step in light of what I have written.
Oh HG your reply did make me laugh. I was doing to you what I do to my son when he has been abusive to someone and ask him to try to stand in the other person’s shoes.
I know neither of you are capable of empathy but you are capable of understanding the Fury you would feel should someone dare to use your own tactics on you.
I would not of course use your past to try and wound you but that is because it is not my way not because I’m feared of the repercussions you would inflict.
This was extremely painful to read. I cant imagine tje pain inflicted in somebody when all those very intimate details are being used to hurt.
In this case I have to say it pure malignancy. This is something premeditTed and cruel… 😢😢😢😢
It’s evil but you know he hurts because he was so hurt when young. Not that it’s an excuse for being so cruel. But it’s not personal. It’s like that story about the scorpion and the frog that someone posted the other day. The scorpion stung the frog because it was in its nature, he couldn’t help himself. This is a terrible mental illness. I’m glad I never became N. I could have!
Was me LO 😃😃. Yes whomever has so much pain will give away only pain. Its very sad. This is why healing is necessary. To the Ns that are tired spreading only hurt. Like the ones in your blog.
Well, only one like that right now. But yes, those remorseful Ns do exist. They’re probably low on the spectrum though. Maybe HG will get to that point too. I don’t think he’s malignant anymore.
He is not malignant and he never was. Maybe circumstances in his life took him to act like that but not malignant in the core. I told that last year already.
Before I thought all Ns could cure if they wanted, but the real malignant ones I believe they cant. The ones that are onlt manipulation and get through life manipulatinf people, even if they would want they cant. They dont know better and they get through life more or less okay like this. They dont feel much so people coming and going is okay.. But I think as they grow old and supply gets lower and lower.. The feelings start coming up plus the effects of loss of N supply which could be correlated..
As I advance in inderstanding I convinve myself of this. I believe this N also has part of ASPD.
I heard some (non malignant) Ns do spontaneously lose their narcissism in old age–probably because of massive loss of supply (loss of looks, youth, job, spouse, friends, sometimes financial) and the nearness of their own death. I’ve also heard some get worse–probably the malignant ones.
You could be right about HG never being malignant. There’s no way to know really. But the way he describes his behavior toward women sounds pretty malignant to me!
Oh I am. Just not here.
Yes LO sounds extremely malignant, in the beginning it was so malignant that I thought I would not stay at the blog
(but the writing and something else told me differently) .. anyway that is about me and its not the point. what I mean was that if he did act very malignant was maybe because of the circumstances ( e.g Caroline was not such a saint after all 😉 ….) and once ended then slowly the person can shift back to his true self..
If you understand me…… dont know how else to explain.
I didn’t think Caroline was such a saint either. She might have even been a little narc-y herself.
I wasn’t sure I’d stay on this blog at first either, but it’s so addictive I couldn’t stay away…and then something changed in HG’s posts that made him seem much more human.
What makes you say that about Caroline LO?
I’m not sure why. Let me think about it some more so I can come up with something that sounds like it came from the left side of my brain.
i discovered The Beauty of him already before the writing changed 😃 Then it only became more and more everyday 😍
ah yes I heard that some get worse and worse with age. I only have the examples of members of my family who are now in some age but I am wondering if they were BPD instead of N..
Would you know if Bipolars also act like N’s ? are there some similarities. ?
Yes, they can act a lot like Ns. I even wrote about this once. I don’t want to post the link on HG’s blog and take away his fuel (lol) but DM me on Twitter and I’ll send you the link (I have to look for it though)
Thanks alot LO because of the 4 people of my family I believed to be Ns when I joined the blog I now believe 2 are BPD 1 is BP and 1 is for sure an N . I will PM you later but Ill first make a search to try to find it alone. Thanks 🌷
Hey lucky otter! Hurt? I was BORN into a WORLD of hurt! Tortured by this for 48 years by a myriad of them ! I don’t take it out on others. No excuse! In the same way, i’ve been sick for 22 years and that’s no excuse to hurt other people because I don’t feel well! Narcissism is the CHOICE of cowards! That is why they are mean bullies! Little children who never grew up and out of it due to fear of the dark.. Also pride, selfish ambitions, and a driving need to punish others. To consume them! So yes. That IS SICK! I have been EQUALLY SICK by allowing it to go on in my life another minute longer! We all have disabilities of some sort to deal with. Right? We all have to make adjustments. It’s called being an adult ! The Narcissist knows right from wrong. He CHOOSES to hurt people for his selfish kicks! I feel sorry for everyone of us who are blinded by denial! I’ve been peeling the layers off for 27 years! I will never excuse their BEHAVIOR AGAIN as long as I live! It’s all I’ve ever done! It’s best to put them in the dark and alone as soon as you recognize it! it’s their only chance of hope for redemption! Narcissist need to suffer the consequences of their behavior . Not us! Thank you for your compassionate heart! The world needs A lot more of that! Boundaries on the narcissists evil ways is the most loving thing we can do for all of us! Thank you
My ex jhm is enjoying his narcissistic games -just like his golf ☹️ he’s nearly 58!!!! He used all my fears cruelty against me . I’m trying to understand it’s his nature luckyotter but it’s shattering. . This site is invaluable – a learning tool
Indeed it is and thank you.
Thank you, Christine. I’m sorry your ex is like that. Remember Ns are children who never grew up, and are just big bullies! You have to pity them.
I had forgotten this part. I recall feeling safer than ever with N at the beginning. I connected with N during a crisis in which I was fearful and he was my protector….went to being more fearful than I ever could have imagined. ALWAYS anxious. Never feeling in control. For months on end. Very bad memories. Finally over I think. I will never allow it to get that bad ever again. truly.
Thank you for letting me share.
Being connected to an N during a crisis, especially during seduction makes the trauma/betrayal bond so much tighter. I experienced this too.
When my exN asked me why we couldn’t be friends “after all we have been through together”- I said because friends don’t eat their friends.
The difference though is this…I already know my weaknesses and have accepted them. If I was ashamed of them I would not share them. So, “your” knowledge has no power or fear over me.
CN did accept my flaws, weaknesses and he shared his own…which I would never use against him, nor will he ever use mine against me. Some people, just are not that nefarious. He will simply move on, perhaps hoovering me again. But, that will be the extent of it. The idea that In the beginning of your relationships, when you admit to feeling adored and fueled… you still amass an armament against this person, is very curious. Your Intention then is sabotage from the onset. Your adage is, all’s fair in love and war….with love being war.
Curiouser and curiouser.
I have to disagree with you Miss S. I do not believe that you would fail to share them. Your desire to detail so much of your experiences through detailed and voluminous posts which are evident in their multiplicity tell me of someone who cannot help but share them. You open up, a faucet, a broken pipeline spilling your thoughts, weaknesses and vulnerabilities all around. I think you are ashamed of some of them and notwithstanding this shame, you will still state them to that other person. I anticipate you will deny this but I do not regard that as an honest denial.
I amass an armament against this person at the outset but this does not mean it necessarily has to be used. It is eminently sensible to ensure that such a stockpile is available however should it need to be used and especially since experience has demonstrated that in the past this has always come to pass.
I did not state I fail to share. I stated I do share when asked and I am open and honest about myself. I concur, my willingness to share, ie, having no shame to express, is not related to the feeling of shame I have internalized over past occurrences. Expression of such is a means to reduce shame. If that makes sense to you. HG.
I will as well, attempt to curb my multiplicitous and voluminous postings which convey honest accounts of self, for expedition of your own moderation purposes. I agree I do tend to write too much useless information. I have been reducing after you told me I write too much and ask too many questions. Thank you for Informing me HG.
Annnnddd…Sh*t just got real here in a hurry!
H.G., with regard to your comments about only harboring weaknesses in the event you may have to use them, I want to believe that is the case. What tends to be self-sabotaging is the chemical and energy driving force of these relationships. You get a subconscious release of endorphins when you exhibit hurtful behavior towards your intimate partner. Your body is fixated on feeling that rush and can only hold out so long. Learn to control that, the relationships may improve.
An interesting book my ex-husband shared with me during his years of being a high school teacher, was “Queen Bees & Wannabes” by Rosalind Wiseman. In it she breaks down the hierarchy of a typical teenage girl clique (granted the edition I read in the ’90’s was pre-social media). You have your leader of the pack (popular, beautiful and gatekeeper to who enters or leaves the group – the Queen Bee. Then there is her right hand sidekick, plus all the little sheep following them. Then, there is another presence. The Banker. This is not the prettiest in the group, but typically the go to for everyone with their problems. She serves as the confidante and voice of reason. However, by being the one that everyone trusts and making people feel at ease, she learns all the dirty secrets or weaknesses. She doesn’t have the intent to hurt back, however if a sheep makes Queen Bee upset, the Banker has the ammo to determine this girl’s fate with the group. In essence, don’t mess with the Banker. She can wield more influence than the Queen Bee at times. And I have a vivid real life story of this with my high school’s cheerleading squad that backs this data up.
In school, college and when I worked in larger offices in my past, I’ve always been the Banker.
Thanks you Clarece, I like that and it makes perfect sense. I was always the banker. At monopoly. The only time I want to hear your problems is when I can use them against you.
The Banker in Monopoly is controlling play money. The Banker I was referring to controls real emotions. However the Banker can really be anything – empath, Narc, even keel, but they are great at keeping secrets and great at influencing people on a one-to-one level.
I understood that Clarece. I was referencing one of my earlier blog posts where I played the banker at Monopoly so I could cheat and win.
Mhmm… So what about you, pouring out three blog posts a day about yourself and your victim’s?
That’s called education and it would be a bit dull if I wrote nothing wouldn’t it?!
HG, the words you wrote are so true! But he also provided me with an arsenal to use against him! He was not as smart as you and he left himself vulnerable many times, vulnerability I would of not realized with out you, your posts and books! So for all he thinks he may do to me will come back on him twofold!! Thank you HG for arming me! Xxx
I must say…the purest of pure evil. Bravo….and I needn’t add “encore”..for it is what you are forced to do…over and over and over again….until you old and hideous….Bravo…I leave when the curtain closes….I go back to a real life…real feelings, real love….I grow…as you stagnate in your costume….doomed to an empty life of acting your part…of soulless devil….BRAVO!
u will go back to your own utopia…everyone has one lol