For The Sake of Argument
Would you like to know what is going through my mind when we argue? Thought you would.
I do enjoy an argument. I love to start a squabble, a contretemps and escalate it to a quarrel through to an altercation, a fight ! By now I am sure you have realised that the reason I do this is twofold. First, I am provoking an emotional reaction from you which gives me fuel. Secondly, it enables me to put you in your place and control you by being abusive towards you. I keep it within the realms of stinging and barbed verbal abuse but there are those of my brethren who do like to let their fists do the talking. That is not my style but we cannot shy away from the truth of what is being done in the name of “a discussion”.
I know from experience and also from reading numerous comments and observations that you regard arguing with me akin to banging your head against a brick wall. You cannot understand the stance we adopt in an argument. Surely we must recognise that what we are saying makes no sense? Do we not realise that our position lacks logic? I will endeavour to enlighten you. I recognise two types of argument. The first is created by me. The second is created by you. What they both have in common is you are at fault.
In the first type I generate an argument out of nothing. You find this disorienting and confusing. In fact,I will often do this after we have just done something delightful together (throwing you from a height is all the more delicious – see Get Ready To Drop). I will invent some offence (why did you just look at that man across from us, when you did not) or I will seize on something utterly trivial (thanks for taking that last drop (and it was a drop) of the sauvignon blanc). I will level the accusation at you. You will at first be stunned because everything was going swimmingly. You will then be perplexed as my accusation is either untrue or so minor to be negligible. Why is he getting so het up over nothing? Indignance will then rise inside you as your inner self questions whether you are just going to sit and take this unjust accusation. I am shouting at you now and you either run away or fight back. It might go something like this.
“Oh thanks for taking the last of the wine, I wanted that. I have hardly had any.”
“Sorry? There was only a drop left.”
“But you didn’t ask me if I wanted it did you?”
“I didn’t think to, there was just a dribble.”
“You didn’t think? That’s the trouble with you. You never think.”
“Oh come on, besides you’ve had plenty of wine anyway.”
“Are you saying I have a drink problem?”
“Woah, where did that come from?”
“You. You are always doing this. You do something selfish and then turn it into an attack about me. Just because you cannot stand for someone to point out when you have done something wrong.”
“Good God, what are you talking about?”
“That’s it, try to dismiss me when I am making a valid point.”
“I only poured a drop of wine into my glass. It is not big deal. Here, if it troubles you so much, have what is left in my glass.”
“No, it’s too late. The damage is done. You are trying to make light of when I am pointing something out to you.”
“This is ridiculous.”
“Oh I am ridiculous am I, well that’s rich coming from someone who drinks a bottle, at least one, a day.”
“Where do you get that from? No I don’t.”
“Yes you do. I am concerned about your drinking, have you ever considered getting some help?”
And on it goes.
When I start an argument like this I am not interested in proving what I am saying is correct. I am already right in my mind. You should note that ‘right’ and ‘correct’ are not necessarily the same thing. The whole purpose of this type of argument is for me to upset you and turn an otherwise pleasant experience into a horrible one. This is about exerting control so that you become wary about upsetting me. Next time you will always ensure you offer to pour me a glass of wine before tending to yourself for fear of causing an argument. Of course,, the next time I will be arguing about how you took the last profiterole instead even though I had eaten five more than you already.
The second type of argument is where you level a complaint or accusation at me. Invariably what you say is correct and you have valid grounds for raising it. You will also do so in a calm and level-headed fashion because that is your style. When you do this I do not hear what you are actually saying to me. The validity of your argument is meaningless to me. The piece of paper that documents your point may as well be written in Sanskrit for all the notice I will take of it. All I hear is you criticising me and I hate that. I absolutely hate it. How dare someone like you, who is inferior to someone like me, have the audacity to suggest I have done something wrong. I do not hear your words, I do not see the video recording you are playing back, all I hear is an unjust and scathing attack on me. Your words are drowned out by the raging fire that surges through me. The noise of the flames renders me deaf to your cool logic. I will deflect, deny and launch my own attacks (usually predicated on inventions) in order to beat you back. I am not interested in the correctness of what is being argued about. I am only interested in stopping the burning sensation I feel from your criticism and to do that I have to extinguish you. This is when I lose control and lash out. I will hurl savage insults at you and I will smash items of property (in my mind I am smashing you, just another object in front of me when I do this) and some of my kind will engage in physical violence. You will try to make me see that I am wrong (any healthy person would do this) and you are utterly flabbergasted as to why I cannot see what you are saying to me. Now you know. I cannot see because of the fiery rage that has erupted.
How do you deal with me in these two types of argument? Well, I am saving that information for another time. In the meanwhile, see if you can piece together that ornament I just have hurled against the wall.
50 thoughts on “For The Sake of Argument”
Vent Your Spleen! (Please see the Rules in Formal Info)
This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.
Are there IP’s that a Narcissist would choose not to argue with but instead impose a silent treatment? What would be the reasons to avoid arguing altogether? Would it differ between the 3 types of narcissists?
All of our kind use silent treatments S because they are easy to use and effective. They do tend to be used by Mid Range Narcissists since of the three schools, the Mid Range engages in passive aggressive behaviours the most. The determinant of the use of a silent treatment is more about the type of narcissist than the behaviour of the victim, although it will have some bearing.
Energy draining…… you loose your life in these arguments.. loose happiness… loose everything…….
Yes. I have to break up with my bf. He is one of these. I just have to figure out how to do it with the least amount of damage.
The advantage that you have is you now know. This will allow you to plan and prepare. As a minimum I recommend you read Departure Imminent, Fuel, Fury, Escape and No Contact. Of course do feel free to ask if you have ny questions.
right in the thick of this.ty HG.
Whoa! I just took a good look at the silhouette. The man looks devil like with his nose and pointy chin. Hideous. Did anyone else catch this? HG was this deliberate?
Well spotted. I have had some reconstruction work since then.
Gosh! I hope so.
Ha ha indeed, horns keep growing back though.
I am sure. Invisible? I bet they are diamond encrusted. Lures in the victims.
I have one myself which is diamond encrusted. Unicorn like. Unusual.
Really…… facial plastic surgery ? Nose done, lips done, chin done ….
Haayyyy dont tell me……. looks fake….. I cant believe you have this….. I am sure you dont have any plastic surgeries…
No Nikita, just lots of masks.
hahahaha what is the difference ??
I think my Narc tried to argue with me and I shut him down. He just went in for the kill and devaluing me and discarding. As I said my therapist said he would cut me loose very quickly. I am a bit crazy but not in a narcissist way.
He would get frustrated when I would just say OK you’re right, I am wrong. I accept all responsibility I guess I did this as I did not care to prove I was right.
He found things to pick on like I should drop weight. Talk about things on my body he knew I could not change, a scar for example.
He had scars from acne and other issues. Peyronies………….look this one up, girls!
OMG! What was I thinking letting this POS in my life?
Really…… talk about a scar ????? how deeply void…… deeply superficial……. how sad.
This is exactly why there is no point in talking with a narc if you have become a primary or secondary source. Because these nonsense arguments spring up out of nowhere and for no apparent reason. So no amount of tip toeing or trying harder even matters. In my experience it gets worse over time because there’s never any resolution to the original argument. Plus one gets blamed for everything.
Arguing over a fucking serving fork he put on the top rack in the dishwasher! I saw it and moved it to the proper spot. Well holy shit man! He noticed and flipped out, said I was always underminding him and did not trust him and so on and so forth. All that over a fork! So many more situations just like that went on in my home. This article was sad to read. Makes me think back to the nonsense that he was.
WOW. Sorry Mary. I just put myself in your shoes for the fork incident. I would have put the fork somewhere he would not have liked.
My sister pissed me off when I was young and I threw a dart at her and hit her in the bony part to the outside of her eye. I am happy now I did not blind her, I control my anger now but he would have brought it out.
MG Mary…. you had it really hard really really hard. 🙁
When I got angry at the psychopath, he said nothing. He would just look at me. I never understood why he didn’t at least try to defend himself or turn it around on me.
He had no need to Immc you were providing fuel already by being angry so he sat and soaked it up.
So real
And more to come after a delightful day of shopping
So here is the burning million dollar question H G. Why don’t you and your kind want to be loved? I get the whole fuel thing, I think, but what about a comfortable sharing, with affectionate memories, and warmth between two human beings in this madness called life? That’s not appealing?
But we do want to be loved, but we want to be adored even more.
Memories are the past and what matters is now.
Is power more important than ‘love’? (Love surely means different things to different people).
Power is the main positive emotion I feel. Power is what I wield. Power is important. But fuel is more so.
Fm
I remember a time when the ex-Narc tried arguing with me, and when I just sat there and didn’t play into it, he asked me why I wouldn’t get pissed and tell him what I’m really thinking. I just looked at him and told him, “I learned years ago that doing so is a complete waste of my time and energy and nothing good comes from it anyway”. Looking back now, I think it’s hilarious that he actually had to ask why I wasn’t giving him his fuel … 😂
Well that was just downright mean Sharon!
Too bad, so sad, but only for him 😂😂😂
Do narcs have one night stands or does that not bring about enough fuel…too easy?
Yes we do. It brings easy fuel from the admiration of the other person and is useful for the purposes of triangulation with an IP for the provision of further fuel.
I look forward to your writing on how one should deal in these sorts of situation and if something/ anything would work to diffuse the situation .
Thank you TL105 I have made a note.
It takes a lot for me to argue with anyone and now I know it’s all about the FUEL! Banging your head against a brick wall is very accurate. Lol!!! My ex mentioned several times “angry sex” and ” make up sex”. Was that one of your goals with your IP’s? And why?
You have answered your own question SW. It is all about the fuel. Make up sex provides a fountain of fuel as a consequence of the mixture of adoration/upset/relief, hence the use of angry sex and make up sex.
Wondering if you were one of several children in your home? My guess is you were, and although I might be wrong, your arguments, the same as my narcissist, ring of someone lost among the chaos of a big family dynamic. Sifting thru all that…oh boy!
Yes there were several children in the home Rosemarie.
I’d be buying new crockery every week…lol it would be fun though. I’m thinking of coming out of retirement.
This behavior is with the intimate partner? Or do you argue with the inner and outer circle as well?
With the IP.
Intimate as in GF or Wife?
Either.
Interesting.
Poor IP.
HG! The ornament will go directly in the waste bin because you will buy me another when you come with the sweetness to give me a toothache. That is if you do not discard me.
Kidding HG, don’t toss me. 🙂
I wouldn’t do that.
Anyone. The narcissistic personality will argue with anyone. They just need to be triggered. And the trigger just needs to be something that get’s to them too close. Appealing to them as not being perfect, having failed, having done something wrong, having hurt someone. They will start arguing. Because arguing to the narcissistic personality is synonym to self defense.
The twofold motive HG describes here is both real and unreal. It is real, because it is how it actually impacts the debating opponent. It is unreal because that is not how it works inside the narcissists brain. (no offence intended here HG) The narcissistic personality just feels: Attac, hurt, wounded. And will hyperwarp into defensemode, uncontrolled, unaware, unwilling. And will start fighting like a madman to win the argument. Because winning the argument is all that counts. No matter who the opponent is.
It is a sad sad state of mind that is unfortunately way to easily triggered. When a narcissistic personality is in this ‘defense mode’ they recognize no personal, no emotional and often no moral boundaries. Which results in very hurtful behavior, people do not understand someone does not display unconsciously. The sad thing is, a narcissistic personality does. That is also the reason they often have no recollection of hurting someone, where they might have a general recollection of the event. It’s a very sad thing, a very difficult situation to handle, and an almost impossible challenge to overcome.
Well put Ruud.