I Don’t Know Anymore
“I don’t know what you want, heaven knows I have tried. Every day I have spent my time in the pursuit of your happiness. It was easy at first because you seemed so happy. I don’t think I had seen anybody who acted in such a care free manner. Nothing seemed to bother you, hold you back or distract you. You moved with such intent, acted with defined purpose and I must confess I found that attractive. The singularity of your aim was evident to even the casual observer. You shrugged off mishaps, shirked disaster and dodged catastrophe as if you had once pledged that you would never countenance anything that could hinder or hold you back. It is admirable and impressive. With that ability to glide effortlessly through life you always seemed happy, or at least that is what I thought. You made me happy too. Goodness knows you did. You did it better than anybody else and with such conviction. I can place my hand on my heart and confirm that I have never experienced anybody like you. Your capacity for love exceeded anything I had witnessed before. Everything else paled next to you and your blazing golden sunshine. You chased away the gloom, you lit up the darkest of days and you always did so with such confidence and fortitude. It was easy to love you, you made it easy. Who wouldn’t love a god who had deigned to walk on the earth in such a manner? Of all of the billions making their way across this planet you came and you chose me. Me. Two small letters yet you made those letters fill your life and there was no room for anything else. I had never been the focus of such love, attention and affection and do you know, I doubt I ever will again. There is nobody like you. I mean that as a compliment, I honestly do, nobody loved me the way you did. If I had not seen it happening and felt it envelope me I would never have believed it and believe in it I did, with every ounce of my being. You know I almost felt obliged to love you. How could I not after all the things you did for me and everything you said? I would surely be a cold-hearted harridan to have denied you the most perfect love after what you showed me. I could no less reciprocate what you gave me than walk away and I feel hard and deep for you so that it made loving you easy. I gave everything for you but if I am honest, at least at first, it was no chore, no arduous exercise or thorny path. It was bliss. You invigorated me, you elated me and you inspired me. You became the centre of my world and thus I loved you in every conceivable way that I could, with my eyes, my mouth, my fingers, my breath and my heart. I woke and the first thing I thought of was you. I found you filling my thoughts often and repeatedly as I considered how best I could return your wonderful love. I sculpted my life around yours as I cooked for you, I shopped for you, I listened to you and I counselled you. I soothed your fevered brow and held your clammy hand as you slipped into a chaotic slumber. I laundered your clothes, I searched for your keys, I supported your endeavours and I lauded your achievements. I made myself the best person you could ever want by your side and I strove each and every day to maintain our happiness for our perfect union. I invested everything I had in our partnership as I wanted to be Robin to your Batman, Hutch to your Starsky and the Sundance kid to your Butch Cassidy. I portrayed nothing less than the perfect visage to all of those who admire you. The bended knee people, the hand-kissers, the bowing people and those at your elbow and over your shoulders. I gave them no reason to doubt us, to doubt you. I smiled when the pain tried to prevent me from doing so. I blinked back the tears when they wanted to pour. I searched for answers even when I began to realise that none would be forthcoming. You made me twist, turn and dangle as you had me like Don Quixote, tilting at those windmills because they might be giants. You made me think that enemies lurked behind every corner, their long-fingered jealousy ready to steal what we had. I searched for them, ready to strike them down in furtherance of what we have, because I believed in you and I. I gave every minute of every day to you, I cancelled my plans, I let friends loose and irked my family in order to give you what I thought you wanted. I cleaned, I worked, I bathed, I trimmed, I cut, I dieted, I measured, I washed and I did so all because of you. I had come so far along the road with you that I was not going to stop because somehow I knew that we would succeed, all I had to do was find what it was that you wanted. That is me, you see, I am a giver and you are a receiver. That does not pain me because I have spent most of my life being a provider and a giver, that is why I was put on the earth, to care, to worry, to look after and to cherish. That is my role and I have discharged myself in this role with utter dedication and distinction. I know I can lie straight in the bed, even more so because you no longer frequent it with me and do so in the knowledge that I have done everything I could for you. You could not want for more. You could not want for a better person than. You were the best for me and I wanted to be the best for you too. They say that when you are going through hell you should keep on going, but I cannot. These shaking hands, my scarred forearms and thinning hair tell me otherwise. The incessant dull ache in my brown, the stoop that I have acquired and the ever present sense of dread threaten to consign me to oblivion. I thought that if I knew what you wanted, if I worked and tried, I could ascertain what it was that you wanted and then I could give it to you and we would be one again. We would be us. We would be happy.
I don’t know what you want.
But I cannot give it anymore.”
93 thoughts on “I Don’t Know Anymore”
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Reblogged this on Speak Out 4 Others (Healing from Narcissistic Abuse, Domestic Violence, and Sexual Assault) and commented:
Told from a narcissist himself. This is so sickening. #Stuff I Went Through
As I was reading the heart-wrenching words of this lady’s letter, I realized though she was truly a devoted soul, and you were the center of her universe, she was not a codependent. She was able to leave you.
I just read this again. Deep in thought. Painful to say the least, and this time I felt it.
I have only one thing to say IF, and this is a big one. I WOULD NEVER HAVE SHARED THE APPLE.
But I would share it with you HG. Then sit back and watch the show.
There are many good debates on YouTube about religion. Hitchens was such a fantastic orator.
I would expect nothing less.
That’s my CyberBuddy, got my back.
I would title it SHITSHOW> I like this word.
Omg dear G. What’s going on here? Don’t let anyone disrespect You! No matter who You are and what’s the purpose of Your blog , You are doing everyone here a massive favour. No therapists can replace You and Your knowledge! People can get angry but still show respect!
OMG – I JUST figured out that this post was written by someone TO HG…now, that is WICKED!! She writes: “I don’t know what you want.” As a good pupil of HG I would opine the answer is: FUEL. Riddle solved 😉 Sigh…seeing what is wanted verses what is. Good lesson and reminder to us all…
Love HG people want LOVE .
Sarah,
I have a couple of questions.
In Genesis chapter one we are told that we are made in God’s image, it says at verse 27 male and female he created them. Now in Genesis chapter 2 verse 18, it states that the woman would be a helper and a compliment to the man. So she is made to go with the man and they compliment each other or work together. My question lies in your statement that the woman went to the snake, that she wanted something Adam couldn’t give her. Now how is this possible when they were both created by God, perfect? They both would perfectly compliment each other because they were made by a perfect God in his image. The second question is when did Eve go to the snake? Genesis chapter 3 clearly shows the snake came to her and asked her if it was really so that she could not eat of the one tree. She said yes and he implied that God was holding her back from being like him, able to discern right and wrong and thus being able to rule yourself without God’s laws and principles. This called into question whether God as the creator has the right to rule over mankind as the creator of them. Kinda like does a parent have the right to set rules for their children or can the children just set their own rules with no guidance. With that said she then went to Adam and yes he decided to eat the fruit too. The bible does not say why he did this. We can assume that it was because she now got the sentence of Imperfection and death as that was the consequences of eating from the tree. The penalty was stated by God in verses 16 -19. There it says man will dominate woman and woman will crave her husband. Thus throwing off the perfect balance of the marital union. Adam and Eve had children after they lost perfection. This means all of us are born with inherited Imperfection from our first parents. We are all imperfect and cannot be perfect. The relationships between all of us are imperfect. Only by buying back what Adam lost will God’s purpose of a perfect couple making perfect people on a perfect earth be realised. Until this earth and people are restored to the original purpose, and it will go back to the original purpose because God cannot lie, we have to suffer from Adam and Eves selfishness.
It was interesting you refer to the ouroboros. The eternal return. Cyclical. The earth will be what it was originally purposed. It was made to be a paradise as a home for perfect mankind to live and work in. The task given to man was to fill the the earth with people and cultivate it and take care of it. (Genesis 1:28.) If this doesn’t happen then God is a liar. It must come to fruition. The bible says it will. (Psalm 37:10, 11 and 29). In the meantime it is Amor Fati or love of fate…
” I want to learn more and more to see as beautiful what is necessary in things; then I shall be one of those who makes things beautiful. Amor fati: let that be my love henceforth! I do not want to wage war against what is ugly. I do not want to accuse; I do not even want to accuse those who accuse. Looking away shall be my only negation. And all in all and on the whole: some day I wish to be only a Yes-sayer.” – F. Nietzsche.
First and foremost, Foxy Lady, you bring up excellent points. God has had a rough one with Planet Earth, but here is my interpretation (for what it is worth).
For me, I must begin in what “God’s Image” means. I will cite Exodus 3:13-14: “Then Moses said to God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?” God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.”
I cite this as it relates to your question regarding how the perfect man could have sinned – which is a keen observation that most people do not even regard. For me, I can find no evidence in the Torah that God attests that He is perfect – therefore, if Adam and Eve were created in His likeness, then they too were not perfect but meant to evolve in the set of circumstances to be who they will be. I was actually reprimanded in Sunday School about this point, but yet to date have not been able to receive an answer that refutes this other than the idea of “perfection” that Christian theologians assume because God is God. Yet, God Himself states, “I AM WHO I AM” so I simply still do not see where perfection correlates and welcome any insight so I can put an old issue to rest…I’ve been arguing this since I was ten. LOL.
But let us not lose track: So the first answer to your question is that I do not find evidence to where God says He is perfect at the point when Adam and Eve were created – therefore, Adam and Eve were not perfect – they were human and had no sense of good and evil, but were aware of right and wrong.
“The second question is when did Eve go to the snake?”
I am applying my own independent thought here, but am basing it on what I perceive as normal female behavior. It is highly doubtful to me that Eve’s first conversation with the snake was the one in which she ate the forbidden fruit. Now mind you, there is no Biblical evidence for this assumption…I am relying on common sense. I imagine there was a perceived friendship between Eve and the snake. She regarded him (or her) as a friend. My question is: Where the hell was Adam? The typical female response, right?! But it does not seem men fall for the trickery as much as woman, even to this day.
But I imagine the snake was trying to ensnare Eve for fuel to keep his days longer on the earth. His destiny in being separated from God was outside of His nature (i.e. created for good) and he was not granted the opportunity for change (or did not want to accept it – that I cannot answer as I have not mediated on it, but thoughts?).
However, since his choice to be what he chose to be was manifested, his only source of supply was to delay time and get fuel from the good.
Both Adam and the snake can probably attest that the process of “wooing” a female is exhausting. The age old battle of the sexes, if you will. More specifically, Adam went off pursuing his own agenda, naming animals and doing things without his wife present (again my own interpretation) whereas the snake sat there, talked to her, got to know her, and pretended to do so for her own accord when the motive was for her to fall for his personal gain. In short, she was lonely and the snake took advantage of this. Adam, who was not maliciously trying to deter her, was absent doing his own thing and neglecting her. I believe this is why the Narcissist has the amazing ability to ensnare because for once, a woman feels as if she is understood…an act but nonetheless, it is something that only the snake can even understand how to contemplate…Adam…well I don’t know if he could have gotten it right if his life depended on it…(not trying to controversial but stating what I perceive from the facts at hand).
Both Adam and the snake acknowledged the same “sigh” when it pertains to the emotional needs of a woman…both choice their own agenda’s and the result, well, welcome to planet Earth! (again my own interpretation).
I do agree with you that Adam and Eve’s choice did call into question God’s rules, but God loved them enough to let them choose and paradoxically had planned this from the beginning with the return of Christ as stated in Peter 1:20 “He was known before the foundation of the world, but was revealed in the last time for your sake.” Permissive parenting does not give children consequences for actions…here, I see God as being clear of the rules, but also allowing them to choose. Unfortunately, the consequences for the choices were dire, but to learn one’s lesson God had to be strong enough to let them choose. I often wonder if the Devil was the spoiled first son of some sorts – the golden child – but that is going beyond the scope, but it could be that permissive parenting turned to authoritative – the ability to choose with the benefit or consequence of the choice being evident by God. Thoughts?
The Bible does not state why Adam ate the fruit, but I believe in truth, it was one of three possible reasons (or a combination thereof): 1) Eve lied to him about what he was eating; 2) he knew that he would be separated from her; 3) guilt. All men I have asked this question to related rationale as number 2…however, to me, it does not completely fit with his blame of Eve to God when questioned. However, I am a female and can’t speak in that regard. I would like to think I suppose that he would rather be with her than without her, but then again, where was he while she was dancing with disaster? Adam did not make her intimate part of his life so she put her emotional energy elsewhere…and the snake certainly had his own motives and wasn’t doing this for any benefit of her whatsoever. Not much has changed today now has it?
I also agree with you that the marital union was thrown off balance…but in truth, it was already unbalanced from the beginning. It is part of the reason I believe this planet exists – to learn balance into partnerships that contrary by their very nature. More specifically, if Adam and Eve had been true helpmates and in sync while in their best stance, they would have communicated to one another before they engaged in doing the ONE thing they were NOT SUPPOSED TO DO. There was obviously none of that ad lib at the dinner table:
EVE: ‘Hey sugar plum, I talked to the snake and he said we would be like God eating from the tree of good and evil…thoughts?
or from Adam: “Hey my love of whom I was lonely without before God gave me – how was your day?”
The two were totally clueless on intimacy. That is the bridge I believe that is to be achieved in this world as husband and wife are inextricably to be one flesh…in truth, it was what Eve always wanted…both Adam and the snake, well, I can’t speak on their enthusiasm, but that seems evident by their actions.
Another point that I humbly make is that if I was to be Eve right here and now, even with the knowledge, I do not even assume I would pass the test. I don’t blame her or Adam for their mistakes. I hope, but do not judge myself as any more evolved even now. In fact, as I sit here and type this, I know that would be VERY foolish of me personally.
I have never met anyone who has understood what ouroboros is. However, that is the only outcome as the snake fuels off the energy of good, but eventually when every atom (Adam) has returned to God’s energy – He will depart – that is the void and the abyss and the fear that the Narcissist feels (how they see it so clearly I do not understand per say but I feel their fear on it and it’s intense – but that is not a normal fear – it is true terror in my opinion of regular emotion sensing).
It appears God does not deny Satan who he is, but refuses to be around the energy forever (who would want to share eternity with others that oppose their ways of doing things?) I cite Revelation 21:1 “Then I saw ‘a new heaven and a new earth,’ for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.” I believe the end of the world will be when God pulls His followers (soul energy) out to create a new world – Sheol or hell will be the remainder of energy that God Himself purged of Himself by their own choice (quintessence). Again, my own theology here and should be regarded as such.
Therefore, the key is to get out of this world before the end comes where God will remove His light. Being created in His image, we are not creatures meant to live without His light…I do believe that some are – but not man – not us. It will not be fun. However, we are given the choice. The snake presented it and God granted the divide…God doesn’t want slaves to love him – He wants to be loved for who He is. That is what I believe.
Oh my gosh I have rambled, but in short, this is what I believe, which is supported in part by theology and in part by own supplementation and should be regarded as such.
Respectfully, I would counter Nietzsche with “Duc iter voluntate” (relying on Google translate which is often not accurate) to say: “choose your own fate.” If, in fact you have chosen, then I agree with Amor fati as the choice is made…but remember, there is always a choice to change. It is there. But if you choose not to and are happy as is, that is your choice. It is what I believe, but I am always open to evolving my own understanding. I want to get know God and look to many religions to know Him more. I merely offer insight into my theology here for the sake of discussion – nothing more, nothing less. We will all be held accountable to what we believe, and I am am aware that my beliefs differ from pragmatical theology.
Hi Sarah. I enjoyed reading your reply. I will start by providing you with proof that God is perfect.
Deuteronomy 32:4
2 Samuel 22:31
Psalms 18:30
Matthew 5:48
James 1:17
These are but a few scriptures that refer to God’s perfect State and His creating everything perfect. Since this is proven, then the idea that mankind was created perfect stands.
1. All scriptures are inspired by God(2 Timothy 3:16).
2. Bible says God cannot lie (Titus 1:2).
Based on that information we see God is perfect and Cannot Lie. So if we were to evolve, depending on what your definition of that is, we started at perfection and devolved from it. The promise that the bible holds is to return to that perfection which was there at the beginning in the garden of Eden.
Anna Belle Black.
I’ve no issue batting the conversation back and forth. I do enjoy reading a theological discussion. I will wait for SA to join in too.
Anna,
I am impressed and whole-heartedly must admit that your explanation is the best I have ever received on this topic. I am literally going to copy this and send it to my former teachers and refer them on how they should have properly responded! Your time in so doing is duly noted and appreciated.
I actually agree with you- Adam and Eve were created “perfect”…
And it also got me thinking…and I like to think and like people who make me think ☺…maybe what has confused me all these years: What is the definition of perfect?
The Bible’s answer would be God, of course, and a study would be related to Adam and Eve before the fall. But if the Bible was written by man after the fall, how do you describe something in which you no longer relate to?
And of course, the question how could the perfect man/woman sin (the imperfect action/sin i.e. missing the mark)?
The only way out of this fallacy that I can fathom at the moment (and mind you my brain is not the fastest especially when excited with new ideas) would be: choice: to achieve perfection, one must choose it.
Sarah,
I am truly happy for you. I really do enjoy conversing with you as I love to talk about theology.
They could sin because they chose to. They had free will. They received the warning, do not eat from that one tree. They did it anyway. Eve because she was deceived, Adam because he chose. We being under the death sentence now because of their choice is unfair. God seen this injustice and at Genesis 3:15 set into motion a fix for us. That speaks of a promised seed who would crush Satan. This of course was Jesus Christ.
Jesus would buy back for mankind what Adam lost, life everlasting on a paradise earth. And again, this was Gods original purpose for the earth.
If Adam and Eve would have not eaten from the tree, where would they be right now?
Jesus was born perfect and remained perfect and loyal to God and his laws and principles until death. Proving that in spite of temptations (Luke 4:1-13) a perfect man could stay loyal and uphold God’s sovereignty if he chose to.
His death paid the ransom for us. We were under the death sentence because of Adam. Jesus sacrificial death paid the ransom because death and sin are holding us hostage. Like when someone is kidnapped, ransom is paid and victim is set free. We are victims because we didn’t get to choose. We had inherited death and sin because of someone else’s poor choice. (Romans 5:12) God seen the injustice in this.
It was not fair for all of the offspring to suffer death because first parents made poor choice. What if their children chose to be obedient to God’s right to rule? This is why people say, Christ died for your sins. Alot of the time people say, so what?This is because they don’t understand the ransom.
A perfect man lost our opportunity for everlasting life, a perfect man bought back what was lost. It is a gift from God to allow us the chance to get to live forever. (Romans 3:23, 24). (John 17:3).
The lords prayer or the our father pray is cited at Matthew 6:9-15. In this model prayer Jesus prays for God’s name to be sanctified, or be made holy, and prays for God’s Kingdom to come. Come where? On EARTH, as it is in heaven. God’s Kingdom is already ruling in the heavens. But in order to gain the benefits from the ransom (perfection & everlasting life) that Kingdom has to be established on earth. Why? Because Adam and Eve were ruled by God and his heavenly Kingdom so in order to go back to the original purpose for man and the earth we have to go back to a theocracy or a God ruled earth.
Every book has a theme. The theme of the bible is God’s Kingdom. How it was lost and How it will be restored. If this does not take place, then God’s plans for mankind were thwarted by Satan and Satan wins. God is Almighty in power and doesn’t lie. He will crush Satan. He will reestablish his original purpose for man and earth. Mankind will regain perfection and live in paradise on earth. Happy ending which gives all of us hope for the future not doom and gloom. This is all based on what the Bible teaches.
Anna,
I agree with you: sin was a choice that both Adam and Eve had the free will to choose it. I have studied Eve to try to assess her motives. As you stated, she certainly was deceived by the snake who was rather crafty…but I believe she also was guilty of desire.
“The woman saw that the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eyes, and the tree was desirable for gaining wisdom. So she took some of its fruit and ate it; and she also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.” Genesis 3:6
Her being deceived was also related to her desire for wisdom…it makes me wonder if wisdom is achieved through the experience of knowledge of good and evil? I think that deception and desire for Eve may be more of a cause and effect than different variables. I envision a child that is told not to touch a hot burner. Some children listen to their parents and don’t question (Adam)…and then there is Eve…she understand it’s a bad thing but then doesn’t understand why so she touches the burner and gets burned.
But what was the snake’s motive? Jealousy perhaps? Needing of fuel? I remember HG writing in a blog post that he compared narcissist’s to the snake, which is why I correlate the snake’s motive to possibly fuel for discussion snake. But the snake’s motive is a little less unclear. Before, the snake was a beautiful creature, but then was cursed to crawl on its belly. Do you think this is the image of the snake we see today or is it more related to something in symbolism?
I agree that Jesus was the fulfillment of Adam. 1 Corinthians 15:45: “The Scriptures tell us, “The first man, Adam, became a living person.” But the last Adam–that is, Christ–is a life-giving Spirit.” Since one man sinned, one man could redeem (which you noted) which I agree with you. However, we have to choose to remain fallen or choose to remain liberated. But how is exactly is this choice correlated?
One of my favorite Bible verses is James 2:19 “You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that–and shudder.” It takes more than belief. I believe it is one’s actions. Since we all fall short of the glory of God, Jesus’s takes away that burden if we believe in Him…but would believing is an action (as is love) – a verb – doing. For me, I consider that to be living as best we can under what is told to us in the Bible…as the mere belief and promise is only established by the action of choice? What are your thoughts?
Sarah,
I am leaving in about 4 hours. I will answer you in between travel and work. I find your intelligence with the scriptures refreshing. I will answer. Ttyl. ABB.
Safe trip!!! Look forward to response 🙂
Hi HG, which post was about asking them questions to see what the response would be , I remember one question was about their favourite toy ? And you mentioned how each type would answer ? I’ve forgotten the title of that post , thank you
Hi Lisa, the articles were called Exposed – Parts One and Two. Therein you will find the questions.
Wow! Used to be me. Glad its over. Fiiuuuu!!!
HG i know you are very smart. Since you dont feel emotions like Emphats do, do you write these things out of all the things you hear us say (read)? Or you just watch what your victims do, really observe them? Or a compliment of both? Or perhaps read articles…. Learn from us just the way we learn from you?
Hello PK, I write them based on all the things which I have had said to me and about me. I have referred to the text messages, the e-mails and the letters. Naturally I also observe my victims because as you state I learn from you as you learn from me. I am always looking to improve my craft.
Improve your craft!? WTF HG!
My therapist did say you are going to make a living out of being a Narc. She said you have no plans at all to managing your behaviour, in her opinion.
I am not sure if you get anything from my posts (fuel) but I clearly love being here, in YOUR cyber world. This will be until I am not. Perhaps when my attention is drawn away or I become bored. So we get something from each other. Fuel for you, although minimal) and entertainment for me from the blog.
Do not think the label Narc is a badge of honour. (queens English for you)
Crazy Mf’er and I still play along.
interestingly I do manage my behaviour though because I manage it here, in this arena.
I derive plenty from your posts. Some fuel but mainly I find you interesting in terms of what you post and comment.
Again the Minion pleases the Master. Apple? It is freshly picked. Ripe and perfect. It is an amazing color red. >
Make sure it is polished.
You will accept it? Will you bite?
It needs some more polishing.
Then get the towel and do so, I washed it off for you.
After you have it polished, may I have a bite?
Since you asked politely and correctly, you may.
Why Thank you Mr. Tudor. May I share with my fellow bloggers? Sharing is caring.
there was only enough left for one bite.
All kidding aside, I am looking forward to the new books on your childhood.
thank you SA you will find them very interesting, I know that much.
Thank you this helped me say what I wanted to say gbu
Brings tears to my eyes….accurately described HG.
I escaped he hoovered everyday for almost a year emailing me at work mostly cuz personal stuff was blocked. He hoovered me until he received a lawsuit from me demanding payment for rennovating a house together… He lost I won n he was married a week later. Lol. Court date was fun for me I sat right next to him questioned him about his family health n his career n the Narc could not look me in the eye… It was most crazy thing I’ve ever seen him do? Anyway. Happy now with a new fella…. However I think he may be a empath to a great degree but a good solid human being for sure!
and as far as your mother, forgive but do not re-live her if it can be avoided…if in hell, get out…quickly! Your burden is not to fight and die. It is to live.
What a woman wants it true intimacy…true intimacy requires knowing one self…she wants to be loved for who she is and seeks to give love for who you are – your true self – that brilliant creature you so desperately hide (the essence of who you are) that she loves…that is what she wants…that is who she loves…she wants you – not the version of you that you found acceptable to expectations – the real you. She wants truth. Until she gets to know you, she will never be able to give love, which for a woman, is an inordinate mission of life (it just is). I didn’t create the parameters or the emotional rules – they just simply are what they are – after all, Eve wanted more from Adam – she didn’t get it and put her trust in the wrong species — oops. The Garden Adam so loved, he failed to protect…but yet, when he was asked by her to take a bite of what he knew was his own condemnation, he rationalized that he would rather be with her in non-paradise than without her. “Wheresoever she goeth, there was Eden” – Mark Twain. True…Love? I swear it not so!?! Or is it? She wanted it then…she wants it know. No different.
In the end, Eve wanted to be a part of Adam, but she was excluded. The snake let her in, and she was excluded after letting Adam down completely. So woman now want to know their Adam and his snake…you fear jealousy because you have split what should have always been one…you are an old soul…but so is she. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over again for different results…the snake that eats its own tail is the ultimate demise. That happens regardless. It’s just if you choose to get out of it.
In simpler terms, HG, women are vulnerable, sensitive nurturers (ESPECIALLY the ones you seem the most drawn to) – if they could not give love, they cannot receive love–it’s just who we are. Until you love you for who you actually are – she cannot love you for who you are, and that is her job – yes, I know that didn’t quite happen in the domestic sense, but it’s what all women want – sensitivity that you do have (false self is wanting to punch me right now but alas, my mission is to give what is needed – not what per say you want although sometimes it is much easier).
So if you want her…show yourself to her. If you don’t want her (by golly that is a lot of work on your part because that is what you want the least) then don’t. Choose for yourself. Stand up for who you want to be. “It was easy to love you, you made it easy. Who wouldn’t love a god who had deigned to walk on the earth in such a manner?”
She wants to the know god…the true self. That is what she wants…and she will love you but you cannot receive love if you cannot accept love for being who you are. You have the control. No one else. I respect you regardless. Your work is helping many others. Maybe my words can offer a slim stepping stone of the same. If not, I apologize as my intent is never meant to offend…but if anyone can do it, it would be you…the power of free will: the power of choice…the power of one who chooses to speak against itself for itself to spread awareness to the world.
Are you familar with Sam Harris? He is a neuroscientist. Study him. There is no such thing as FREE WILL.
Just because he’s a neuro-scientist does not make his theory right.
Definition of Science:the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic STUDY of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through OBSERVATION and EXPERIMENT.
Free will is a touchy subject indeed, you have those who don’t believe in accountability and those that do.
Calling Free Will an illusion is a Codependent’s heroin, an abuser’s greatest delight, this theory in my opinion is a dangerous one to keep chains locked and cycles spinning. Free will in my humble opinion is the key to freedom.
I’m sticking with science.
HG can choose to manage his actions but his condition is always there. Like an alcoholic.
Thank you for the definition of science, I had no idea what it meant. :-\
It is a very difficult concept to think we have no free will. It is very difficult to think there is not one reason you are here reading this. No greater purpose for your existence.
Definition of science was for me, to clarify I knew what I was referencing to.
I am not at all interested in changing your point of view, morals, or values SA. I do like to share my own thoughts to subjects I find important even if they differ,
You go CC! I did not think you were trying to change my views at all. Nor am I trying to changes anyones. Not my place.
SA -thanks for reaching out…you are a deep thinker and I spent a day researching Sam Harris and his works (not far enough time to fully grasp his total understanding, but was able to locate where our paths diverge from my limited research which should be taken for what it is). More specifically, he states in his book ‘Free Will’: “As sickening as I find their behavior, I have to admit that if I were to trade places with one of these men, atom for atom, I would be him: There is no extra part of me that could decide to see the world differently or to resist the impulse to victimize other people. Even if you believe that ever human harbors an immortal soul, the problem of responsibility remains: I cannot take credit for the fact that I do not have the soul of a psycho-path. If I had truly been in Komisarjevsky’s shoes on July 34, 2007 — that is, if I had his genes and life experience and an identical brain (or soul) in an identical state – I would have acted exactly as he did. There is simply no intellectually respectable position from which to deny this. The role of luck, therefore, appears decisive” (4).
A respectable and noteworthy position; however, here is where I personally fundamentally differ in stance:
Harris assumes that the brain is equivalent to the soul. I personally view the brain as a network that connects the body with the soul but is distinctly different: the soul is the energy inserted in the body and the brain is the translator between the soul’s energy and the physical body. More specifically, the body and its instincts through DNA (which the brain controls) is the parameters of the soul – it’s a confine – but the soul is more powerful if it so chooses to break free from what feels ever so right in the comfort of genetic confines.
In support of such: I believe that the soul enters Earth to specific bodies with the DNA that is genetically bound (basic instinct) with the sole purpose of whether the soul’s choices can breach the barrier of the strict confines of DNA. Not many people can, as mind over matter is often lost to matter…i.e. “might makes right”. However, there is a choice to transgress the strict rules of DNA by souls if they are willing to choose it and strong enough to do it. Sadly, most fail.
I believe HG is one of the few that has the potential to be successful in proving that the genetic code is one in which the soul can prevail. I have never personally seen anyone get this close…but if anyone could do it, it would be HG. But it is a battle – it is a denial of EVERYTHING the DNA structure and genetics commands (which is how the soul relates to the outside world – through atoms) – but if you think about it…it would take the most resilient of all souls to be able to break it…and HG, well, he is the epitome of resilient.
From what I understand the condition of NPD can only be managed. So this could be a choice for HG. But he clearly states that he likes who he is and why change? It works for him.
There are many HG’s out there or his kind, and this is why we are here reading his blog What makes HG different is the way he delivers the truth on this disorder. Make no mistake; he is a Narcissistic Sociopath. I have a respectable fear of him from afar. I Do not lose sight of this.
I am not so sure on your take of souls entering bodies. Do you equate soul with the conscience?
I believe in science. I am a logical thinker. Not much gray there for me.
I follow Richard Dawkins, Neil deGrass Tyson. The late Christopher Hitchens. Hawkins is another. Past and present. (at 13 I had a crush on Carl Sagan :-))
I am turned on by intellect and brilliant minds.
I am an Atheist. (I rejected Dogma at the tender age of 5) I also believe there is no purpose for our existence. Yes, while we are here, we should do good deeds to better society as I like to live in peace and order. But I do not believe there is anything after death.
My humble opinion.
SA – Hi!!!!
Until a year ago, I had never opened Pandora’s box and tried to tune into the NPD energy because I didn’t know how I would react to it…my natural reaction is to heal but I was engaged in an emotional war which is not my nature – and just finally stopped and said to myself: He wins. I am going there. But just like Pandora, when she closed the lid of the box, the only thing that remained inside was hope…which leads me to your question: “But he clearly states that he likes who he is and why change? It works for him.” Such a good question! For me, I suppose the question I want answered is to know if he could change and if he did, which way he preferred. But more importantly, can HG control the choice or is it not possible?
“Make no mistake; he is a Narcissistic Sociopath. I have a respectable fear of him from afar. I Do not lose sight of this.” I guess I don’t want to judge unless he was to say it and provide his definition of what that means? Change and time are insidious…in one of his blogs he wrote about shifting sands where things change but I am not sure what that person is or isn’t to him? But I think for me to learn how to co-exist in my situation, I practice acceptance and love but I wish there was a manual on how to co-exist as I seem to provoke him when I am not anything…but clearly I am doing something but I don’t know what?
I guess too maybe I would define it as arrogant to think that HG would dedicate any energy to me really so that never crossed my mind to be afraid? He is pretty popular with tons of admirers so I guess I never thought about it like that? Should I? I just never even went there thinking it wsa a mute point and still think it is but I don’t know? But for me, I view people separate from choices, but I don’t define a choice as who a person is… I don’t think I can view it any other way now but I am not sure if I EVEN understand 🙁 – but I know HG mentions control and that is a big thing so I assume choice is within the control but it’s not easy but does it exist is the question ultimately? The only way to know would be if he controlled to initiate the change – but I have always been told I think differently so maybe there is another way?
“I am not so sure on your take of souls entering bodies. Do you equate soul with the conscience?”
Hmmm…I would proffer that I equate conscience as an aspect of the soul’s reaction within the body and it’s genetic constraints. Like, if someone has a brain injury to the pre-frontal cortex, they are not going to experience emotions or relate with others in the same way (goes back to your original post) – there are limitations that the body dictates.
To me, the soul is energy – some energy is stronger than others. Since energy can neither be created or destroyed, I believe the soul is eternal; however, through the body it is changed as choices, actions and experiences influence that energy in different ways. However, if one has a TBI, I don’t care how strong the soul energy is – brain network is damaged like a broken router almost – the connection is just not going to connect without glitches.
I believe the soul comes to learn and the bodies we are in provide us lessons related to particular purposes we choose to explore. I think that the society needs to learn how to be sensitive and stop going on witch hunt’s like the Crucible – narcissist’s feel attacked which is why they attack sometimes. I mean, where are the Empath’s writing books about helping one another or alternatively showing love and compassion for NPD? I believe society has a jaded interpretation of people – they define what is good and evil as black and white – but to understand one – how can you note understand the other? Like one day, I can be in a bad mood – does that make me a bad person? I don’t think so. I guess I think these viewpoints distort the good and bad to where both are unknown. HG has written 41 books to help people – yes, he admits to hurting people, but we assume good and evil as black and white and I don’t think that is the case per say…the Bible says that everything in this Universe is evil so that would include me so again, I REALLY don’t think most people get it…but its a narrow path. Most people don’t prefer to think – maybe they are better for it – I don’t judge.
I don’t know if there is any scientific findings on the NPD being wired different – I am going to research that but if I had to guess, I would say it probably is in some cases and not in others – have you studied that? I would be super interested in that subject…there is no doubt there is a construct of harder DNA barriers.
Was Tyson an atheist or agnostic? I have read Hawkings – Scientifically my brain works differently but for one thing, how does science know or not know? Like, if we are moving in the universe – like the Milky Way is revolving around something else – how do we know that where we are in time and space doesn’t change the scientific principles? What inspired you about these people or what points do you most agree? I can see you rejecting dogma for sure – but who ever said dogma was right?!
I always loved Carl Jung’s statement about God: “I don’t need to believe, I know” – Dawkins referred to it as blind faith as Jung really could not provide proof, but I understand what he felt because I feel it too – sometimes I wonder if science and religion were soulmates and when they divorced each other, they could only see half of the whole picture.
What is nothing? Can nothing exist without something? What color is it – black or white? I try to imagine it – I guess I see it as darker than light but maybe it is bright white – but what if nothing contained something? Can they be separated? I don’t know but I like to think of those kind of things…
Sometimes I wonder if our energy (my perception of the soul) creates by what it believes. I wonder if nothing is more peaceful than something? But can there be order without chaos? Can there be light with dark? Good without evil? But we assume the two extremes to be so different, but what if they were more of the same?
I am going to have to take these questions and try to do a lucid dream session – whenever I have questions – I try to do this – I usually get so excited when I finally remember I am dreaming that I wake up but I just like to think through I suppose and it’s quiet…lol –
Anyways! Thanks for your responding – I’d love to hear more about your beliefs. I like learning 🙂
Out to breakfast so I will address everything when I am at the laptop
NO FREE WILL> STUDY THE WORK OF SAM HARRIS>NEUROSCIENCE
SA…in your opinion, does free will include individual choice or exclude it?
Free Will, as we understand it, is the power to choose your thoughts before you think them. Understand?
Okay, that actually makes PERFECT sense… as you understand it, does thought precede action or does action precede thought?
LOL and what came first, the egg or the chicken.
I think you can answer this yourself.
Subconscious thoughts precede both.
Well, I assumed thought, but I find assumptions can be communication errors…so if one believes there is no such thing as free will, that equates to having no power to choose one’s thoughts, correct?…But if the subconscious thought becomes conscious, does having no free will mean you have no control over the action inspired by the subconscious thought?
Man is born free but everywhere he is in chains.
FYI Disclaimer – sometimes my brain is dyslexic – just prewarning you 😉 – I normally catch it in a proofread but I think backwards so when I think forwards it can come out all wrong…so is it the thought that chains the man kinda?
You could address my comment on many levels – a person’s own limitations, the desires of others impinging on your own desires, guilt, conscience, the impact of social convention, parenting, the expectation of the community, the imposition of the social mores of school, church and clubs, laws, procedures, having to think about others – so many restrictions, limitations and chains. I am fortunate to be the bolt cutter.
Sure then you can make the choice to do or not do, But the actually thought was not a choice. Understand? It is very simple in its complexity. I will listen to Sam’s podcast again on this to better explain.
I once went to movie on black holes held at the Denver Museum, I thought my brain would explode, but first it was imploding. It was so far beyond my comprehension that I walked out wide eyed and felt very insignificant that my brain could not graspe the concept.
I try everyday to feed my brain and hope that I can retain it and understand what it is I am reading. When I sit with intellectuals, I become the sponge. I love to listen.
Reflex responses bypass the brain as we do not have time to think if it is safe or not in certain situations, such as touching a flame.
I will not be toughing a flame anytime soon.
lol, you know what I mean. Touch a hot pot, and we pull our hands back before thinking about it due to human reflexes. Sorry, I rudely hopped in the discussion. My ADHD brain 😉
Perhaps stepping on a nail would be a better analogy.
I sure as hell did not decide to step on the nail and before I knew what hit my foot, I was up in the air screaming in pain. Then off for a tetanus jab.
1) your Pandoras Box, was this you Narc relationship?
2) I read it somewhere, perhaps in one of his many books. Maybe on one of his Youtube posts.
He does not hide what he is. No judgement on his admittance on what he is. I find it fascinating. A dance with darkness.
3) You are engaging with him on his blog and perhaps in private emails as he is open to both and answers to both. So he is giving you time and attention. No arrogance on anyones part. He loves fuel from all of us.
4) Again I do not have a soul, electrical impulses perhaps.
5) Showing love and compassion is what am empath does. I do not show love or compassion for a Narc, but I understand the disorder. I do not have to do anything else.
6) I do not read nor believe in the Bible old or new testament. I am a non-believer. Referencing with this literature will have no validity for me. But I respect that it works for you.
7) They become wired differently, like a drug addict. I believe this to be true. Their brain will fire differently. Respond to different stimuli then a so called NORMAL brain. Lack of empathy is detected in scans.
8)Tyson is a self-proclaimed agnostic and believes that science and religion cannot currently be reconciled.
9) You are a very curious person. Do you ask the question “WHY, What is my purpose?” I have never asked myself this.
1) Ohhhh yes…and I’m not sure if a relationship is the best word to describe it on BOTH of our accounts!
2) HG chooses to be who he is and makes no disclosure as to who is in the present. If he came out and said “I am a Narcissist sociopath” (which he may well if he reads this), then I respect his choice and will know, but I don’t want to presume as that feels wrong?
3. I have so many questions for HG, but I feel that would be wrong of me to ask because if he did respond (which he didn’t on FB already but I hadn’t been on this blog and quickly figured out that my nature of giving is foreign to his nature), he would be giving and I don’t know if what I have reciprocates a valid exchange. I have read his works and he has honestly stated that he gives to get. I am not sure how fuel is determined really (although I read the book) but when I write now, I write as myself. If I knew that was sufficient of a valid exchange, I would but I have no clue. I respect his value as he stated (although I personally give for free to help others) but I live with the understanding that nothing is for free and don’t want to take and do that understanding how a Narcissist feels about that. Does that make sense kinda?
4) Interesting – that is not so different than energy – have to think about that.
5) I feel love and compassion for the Narc. I seek to understand it which is why I admire HG and what drew me to him.
6) More than fair stance there 🙂
7) I wouldn’t know how to operate with a lack of empathy!
8) I don’t disagree but do not think that they should have divorced each other.
9) I am curious – I have always been curious. I know my purpose…to help others — when I help others, God helps me and He is much stronger than me. It is what I choose – we all have our own paths – I respect those who don’t need to think about it and just know. It is admirable 🙂
1) only you would know what it is.
2)He does not chose to be what he is. He can chose to manage his behavior. Ask him in private or on here. NOT FACE BOOK, too public.
He is what he says he is. So stop thinking you are judging. You give to him by asking and responding to him, trust me on this one. Do not be a martyr in anyway shape or form. It is unattractive and you can’t ride on my Unicorn if you do.
4)Science without the fufu
5)HG is a chick magnet. UNDERSTAND THIS> Save your compassion for someone who cares.
6)Thank you
7)I have it for some. Animals. Most people no. On here? I try but it is hard. I do not want yours and I do not want to give mine. Hey but I still love ya. You are fun. ever make it out west, give a jingle.
8)They never were married. OIL AND VINEGAR.
9) Ask GOD to help you get the Narc out of your life. He will only destroy you as you are to gentle and kind. Come hang out with me. We will have a come to JESUS (minus the Jesus) meeting.
xoxox
Also to add to 9) I never automatically knew though…it took me years 🙂
Also to add to 1) My “Little Ray of Sunshine” has just walked in the door and is demanding attention…think love…think love…lol – HG, no chances that you will write a book on how to co-exist but why do I cringe that the answer will be to the tune of: “RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!!”
I asked myself if I could co-exsist with a narcissist, but then I also asked myself why would I? Billions on this planet and I can’t find someone stable? ( referring to your response on #1)
My relationship is as a full-time custodial stepparent with the former golden child who is 12. I am trying to reverse the effects. I want him to be happy
You are a good woman to do this for a child.
Well, I used to think so, but our discussions even have reinforced that I am wanting to change what it is and even ignorantly thinking I could. I need to practice acceptance, and also better define my limits and reinforce the consequences for certain actions. More specifically, I don’t need to engage if the choices are negative. He does have a power to choose how he treats others and I have the power of choice to allow it to happen or not. Being that pillar is what is needed more wanted as I want him to see the other side, but that is beyond my control. While I feel like it is learning how to live between a tiger and bull shark, I don’t have to swim in the same waters. It is not for me to change.
I am not sure of your age but I am here to say LIFE IS SHORT.
31 going on 80…………or older!
But that is also if I choose to listen to the status quo – but a choice nonetheless – it is not my battle, but do I choose it? Ah, that is the question. It’s a long battle. I have to think if I am up to win the war.
Oh HG you really tap into our soul . Such love , hope and admiration but its never enough . Excellent piece but so very heartbreaking .
I suppose the fuel from hearing these words was great ?
I was thst woman above – so so sad
You don’t know what I want? I want everything, what’s so difficult about that.
HG,
Ya know I really don’t like to feed you information. But I have to open my mouth because, I would like to bitch slap you. Since this is impossible to physically carry out, you leave me no choice but to say my thoughts out loud……..psych….
No seriously, I read the comments when you posted this before. You replied to someone that they got what they deserved. My forever Narc hit me on one occasion. He is the only Man who ever did this to me. He and I were playing around and wrestling. He pinned me. He had both of my wrists above my head with one hand. We were laughing. I said to him let me up….he said no. I laughed, come on let me up…No. I started to fight. He was 6’2 220lbs. I am 5’3 and at the age of 19 I was 115lbs. I of course could not fight him. So I said every name in the book then said you effen pussy, you going to beat me up? I’ll kill you. Your nothing but a pathetic loser. Your own family is happy u got the eff out of their lives and moved 2500 miles away. You will never ever be good enough for them….yes. he slapped me. I said wtf? Then he backhanded me. Called me a fucking bitch and stood up. I ran after him, jumped on his back and punched bit kicked and of course he got me off of him. He got in the car and left. I took all his clothes and threw them on the front lawn. Called the police. Filed charges. I called my narc brother. I said D hit me. He said Your such a bitch, you probably deserved it.
Thank you again HG for triggering yet another lovely memory. I got to get the eff off this blog…it’s flashback city…..yet I strangely can’t look away. Oh and I’m still bitch slapping you, if we ever meet, since your kind started it and YOU deserve it.
You may try the slap but my reflexes are fast and your wrist will be caught and held.
And then?
I charm you into compliance.
HG Tudor. I once read that the feelings we (the narcissist’s targets) are experiencing are feelings the narcissist wants us to feel.
For example we emailed last week. All good. Today he drives past me and looks the opposite way when he saw me. Resulting in me thinking ‘WTF’ and very upset (he knows ignoring me upsets me). Can I assume my feeling that way is what he wants?
I could email him, but he’d just say he didn’t see me & tell me to stop being aggressive.
Hello Watermelon, yes we manipulate you to cause the control and fuel that we desire and your analysis is correct. Do not e-mail him. He is wanting you to do this and he will gain fuel from you doing this but also it will encourage him to exact further machinations against you.
HG
Can I ask you. Is this really how you feel. Do you fall deeply at first for the women you have chosen? I don’t love my washing machine it just means work, What does that feel like to you, falling deeply for someone? I no its not what normals feel. I no I hate physical contact and the thought of having to go threw that over and over makes me sick. Does it only take one time for your primary source to mess up and then the evil begins? You start the discard even if it takes awhile the trust was broke for you after one incident?
Do you ever tire of starting over again with a primary knowing the end result? It’s an incredible amount of work and energy spent. I understand the need. I just wonder why you would want to invest so much when the outcome is still the same. I try really hard not to repeat my same mistakes, I no you do as well. Don’t take this the wrong way, I am learning. Your incredibly bright, the top of the narc world but you act like the lower end when you repeat the cycle knowing the out come. You no what it is, you have told us it never works. This is not disrespecting your work HG. I am asking for help understanding. This doesn’t work in the end and I wonder why you have not tried standing on your own without a primary and draw strength from yourself. God knows you have enough strength of your own, for the world. Look what your holding here in the blog?
Hello SII, we fall for the appliance in the sense that we believe that their fuel will be the wonderful, potent and everlasting fuel that we require and therefore we will give our all in order to attach this appliance to us. How does it feel? It feels like having walked through a desert and then being offered a large jug of ice cold, pure and clean water which tastes extraordinary and the power which surges through us at the finding of such a potent source is immense. The primary source causes the diminution of the supply of positive fuel and thus the devaluation commences.
No I do not tire of starting the process again because it is exciting, interesting and there is always, there is always the prospect that this time it will be the one. I do not know that the outcome will be the same, that is the point. Bear in mind that if the new prospect falters, well there is always negative fuel to be obtained so it is not as if I am going to lose out is it? I always find a way of making it work so that I gain fuel, that is how effective I am. It would be difficult maybe impossible to stand without a primary because of the fuel demands that we have and the fact that the primary source meets so much of that demand. It is not worth risking the dangers which appear when fuel falls too low. I appreciate your observations though.
Eloquent as always.
I’d like to know more about the Andrea phenomenon. Any articles? I am still trying to wrap my head around it; is there hurt hiding beneath that “hate” ? Hate takes mental energy, I thought they forgot about you? What I did was far less than how others have screwed him…but they were eventually split white again.
Thank you TT. As for Andrea, have a look at these
https://narcsite.wordpress.com/2016/07/29/remembrance/
https://narcsite.wordpress.com/2016/05/24/the-good-the-bad-and-thats-it/
https://narcsite.wordpress.com/2016/03/20/no-spring-skips-its-turn/
There will be more about here as the campaign continues.
Perhaps you will be split white again, time will tell.
I just wanted to know the motives behind this… I have went no contact for 3 weeks-he has not tried to contact me in 2. Today I receive an index card with nothing but my house key attached, after 2 months of him not living here. Why after 2 months & why nothing else?
Hello Healing, excuse the delay in replying, I have been away. The index card was a hoover. You entered one of his spheres of influence and he determined that the conditions supported a hoover, thus he did it this way. That is why it happened when it did. How have you responded to this? Has there been any further activity on his part?
thank you for replying. I did not respond at all. & yes I found out he contacted my moms boyfriend the other day to thank him for allowing him to buy a car months ago. Why was the index card blank? So frustrating!! Everytime I start to feel like the old me its something! And thank you everything you have said he’s done the victim power play, marry me etc! Thanks for giving me the tools!
It was blank to cause your mind to whirl, to make you contact him to ask why it was blank, it was yet another move which raised more questions than provided answers. You are welcome, I am pleased you have found my work to be useful.
And then she walked out the door, standing more and more erect each day, head and chin higher. Nothing seems to bother her as much as it used to. She has intent, is more carefree, and purpose is felt in her chest. She looks in the mirror and says, “damn, girl! Where have you been all my life?” She is dedicated to self improvement, soul discovery, and living fully. She doesn’t look anymore to be completed, because she knows she is complete on her own. If love should cross her path, she will know and welcome the partnership without needing to forget her beautiful self. Giving and receiving.
No longer a puzzle piece, no longer a doormat, no longer an imbalanced masochistic rescuer, saver, pleaser. I’m ME. Yes,those two letters are mine.
~me