That’s the End Isn’t It?
“I have not heard from him in a month, he has moved on hasn’t he?”
“I exposed what she is like to all of her family, she won’t be contacting me again that’s for sure.”
“I told him I know what he is and he disappeared so I doubt I will hear from him again.”
“He is with somebody else already so I guess he won’t want me again will he?”
“I told him what I thought of him and he just backed off. He won’t hoover me will he?”
“He came crying back to me and I gave him short shrift. I doubt he will bother again.”
Wrong.
There are many different scenarios and outcomes involving our kind where the victim considers that our kind will not bother with them again post discard or post escape. The victim thinks that a period of total silence, the involvement of the narcissist with a new victim, the manner in which the relationship ended will all mean that the narcissist will not come sniffing around the victim ever again.
We will.
Why is this the case?
Firstly, you must understand our perspective. You belong to us. You are our appliance. You are our property. The Formal Relationship between us may have ended but the Narcissistic Relationship is forever. It only ends when either you or I cease to draw breath. It does not matter that we enter into a new Formal Relationship with somebody else. It does not matter if you do. It does not matter that world war three erupted when we parted company. It does not matter if there has been complete silence for two years. None of these factors alter the fact that in our minds the connection between you and I because of the Narcissistic Relationship lasts until one of us dies.
Secondly, the attraction of gathering fuel from you is substantial and this is the prime driver for never letting go. Fuel is so important to us that it drives everything about behaviour and the link between you and I is no exception to the all-pervasive power of fuel.
Thirdly, factors such as new partners, the effluxion of time and the manner in which the Formal Relationship has ended are immaterial.
I am repeatedly asked by people whether a hoover will happen. I always answer the same; the risk always remains, but you can manage that risk. People set out the circumstances of the end of the Formal Relationship to me and what has happened since (if anything) and ask whether a hoover will happen, or express their view that they do not think it will happen because of a, b or c. My answer again is the same; the risk of us returning always remains, but you can manage that risk.
It is never the end. There is always a risk, a chance, a probability (or a possibility) that we will return to you and apply a hoover. You cannot assume that it is over. No matter how much it may seem that it is over, no matter how much it may appear to you that we will not come back, that we apparently have no reason to do so, such assumptions are dangerous. There are only two factors which are material to the issue of whether you will be hoovered again.
The first factor is the Hoover Trigger. For a hoover to happen potentially, it must first be triggered. This means that you must come into our sights, that we sniff the prospective fuel that leaks from you, that something happens to cause you to come up on our radar. Whether this happens depends on whether you enter one of the six spheres of influence. I have written separately about them in The Spheres of Influence (And What You Can Do About Them) in another article. I will not repeat its content other than to state that
- You have control over whether you enter any of the first five spheres of influence; and
- You have no control over whether you enter the sixth sphere of influence.
By staying away from us through no contact you will not enter the first five spheres. The sixth sphere is when we happen to think of you. Thus, if you have successfully implemented no contact the only risk of a trigger being activated is if we happen to think of you. You cannot influence that. Our preoccupation with your replacement means we are far less likely to think of you and hoovers are triggered by you doing something to enter the first five spheres, such as messaging us or passing where we live.
If you maintain no contact the first five spheres will not be entered. It then just depends on whether we happen to think of you. This may not happen for weeks or months. You can therefore see that by staying out of the first five spheres you will vastly reduce the risk of a Hoover Trigger being activated but you cannot state that it will never happen as it is reliant on if we happen to think of you. That may just be a random occurrence or it might be because we see something that reminds us of you.
The second factor is only applicable if the Hoover Trigger has been activated. The second factor is concerns the Hoover Criteria. These criteria include such matters as: –
– Whether you are a potent source of fuel;
– Whether you can easily be located;
– Whether you can easily be contacted;
– Whether you have your defences maintained concerning us;
– Whether you remain mired in the emotional sea;
– What support networks you have in place;
– How well fuelled we are;
– The nature of the narcissist who you entangled with (Lesser, Mid-Range or Greater); and
– Potential obstacles
All of these matters combine to determine whether it is worthwhile us expending our energy to act on the Hoover Trigger. If we are presented with a sitting target, flowing with fuel, caught in the emotional sea, isolated and exposed then the criteria point heavily to the fact that a hoover will now take place. If on the other hand it is very hard to contact you, we know you have stopped flowing with fuel when dealing with us, you have people who will stop us trying to reach you and so forth, you become a Flawed Reason to Extract Emotion (F.R.E.E.).
For a worked example of how this can happen if someone enters the first sphere of influence I recommend that you read the article Hoover Time! Sphere One.
Accordingly, if you can do everything possible to become a F.R.E.E. then even if Hoover Trigger is activated then the chances of us executing that hoover will be considerably reduced. By contrast, if you fail to attain becoming a F.R.E.E. then you run the risk of a hoover being executed.
You will note that in the hoover criteria above there is no mention of the gap between when we last contacted you and the current time. There is no mention of the circumstances in which we parted company as the Formal Relationship. There is no mention of you knowing what we are, whether you told us, whether you exposed our abuses to others. Those are not factors which concern us. The existence of a new partner is not relevant either in isolation, but is only a partial consideration in terms of whether that person might stop us. Of course even if they might do so and all the other factors point to the execution of a hoover, this one criterion has diminished relevance.
Accordingly, when you are asking yourself whether a hoover may happen. Remember this.
- You can never say never.
- There needs to be a Hoover Trigger. You can significantly influence whether there is one and reduce the risk but you cannot remove it.
- The Hoover Criteria need to be met. Again, you can significantly influence whether the criteria are met by becoming a F.R.E.E. and reduce the risk, but you cannot remove it.
The issue of whether you will experience a hoover is not completely in your hands, but is far more within your control than you might at first have thought.
It is never the end but you are not helpless.
72 thoughts on “That’s the End Isn’t It?”
Vent Your Spleen! (Please see the Rules in Formal Info)
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Estaba con una narcisista pase por todas las etapas me dijo que la cosa se habia enfriado me daba esperanza y luego no cumplía nos fuimos de viaje con amigos en común y me marche a los días de allí aplique contacto cero y a los días volví a mantener contacto quiere ser amiga mía y me escribe a veces para ver que tal estoy?que quiere de mi?
HG, this site has been fascinating, horrifying and a lifesaver the past few weeks.
I’m currently in the second discard (both initiated by N). No contact from him during the first discard which lasted four months (this was before I knew what I was dealing with), despite reaching out during the first week, devastated and wanting closure. During this time I moved to the same neighborhood, we live in a small town and I was excited to land this perfect little house – how (un)fortunate? At this time I was thinking we would never be involved again because of his absolute silence, I was moving on with my life, would have been okay with the occasional interaction in public – still not knowing I had a narcissist on my hands. He saw me working on my house and BOOM commence apologies/love bombing and longer second relationship. The difference with this discard, is he wants to be “friends”. A complete 180 from his behavior during the first discard. I have since come to the realization of what I’m dealing with, and would never go back. Except I’m constantly in the second sphere now. He drives by my house to go to work. Is there ANY hope that there will not be another hoover? Is his strategy of wanting to be “friends” his way of putting me on the shelf until he’s ready to come back for another hoover? Is it ever possible that they can only be friends?
Hi,
I was NC for 6 weeks or so post discard. Last week, I ran into him at the plaza I was having lunch at. He saw me and pulled in beside my truck. He told me he sees me everywhere, to which I responded that it doesn’t help that I work near his house. He asked me how I was doing, I said fine. Did not reciprocate. He asked if I still hated him, I said ‘No, I don’t hate anyone, it’s a waste of my time and energy”. He said that he hates everyone with a passion. I jut reiterated that it was not worth it. He asked what was new, I just said work, eat, sleep. He told me he had to get back and I said take care.
A couple of days later, I get a text about my stuff that was left at his place. He tells me that he kept it even though I told him to burn it and asks if I still want it (am I supposed to be profusely grateful about this?). I thank him and ask how he wants to do this – me pick it up, him drop it off or meet somewhere. He says it’s up to me and then follows it up with me picking it up from him. I say ok, when and he suggests that same day. This is a Saturday when I know he will be drinking. I tell him I am not around that day but is he free tomorrow to which he says sure and I say ok, thanks. He responds with ‘no thanks’. I’m sure I was supposed to go back to clarify what he meant but I did not. Next day he texts me to say he won’t be around so he’ll keep my stuff in his car and maybe drop it off when he’s done work.
The following Monday he texts me to say he has my stuff in his car and asks if I’m going for my walk at 2:00. I said I could delay my walk, thinking he would be dropping my stuff off at my work. He said we could also meet at Tim Horton’s – meaning I could still go for my walk. So I walk up to the Timmies and meet him at his car. The bag is much larger than I anticipated (which, of course he knew) and a little too big to walk with. So, he offers me a ride back to work, which I accept. In hind sight I realize this is another of his games – he knew that the bag was too large and he could have just dropped it to me at my work, since he ended up there anyways, but he suggested Timmies knowing I was walking. During the drive, he asks how I am to which I vaguely respond “living the dream” and he repeats back to me when I ask the same of him. He tells me about his Nan having a bad seizure and how she’s been lying about taking her pills and how upset he is about that. He then tells me he was going to run me over one day. I asked why he would want to do that considering I hadn’t done anything to deserve being run over. He said he was having a bad day but then he realized his car would be damaged, his insurance would go up and there would be too many witnesses. Ha ha ha – he was “just kidding”. I went along with it and said if you do run me over, make sure you kill me and don’t just leave me crippled ha ha ha. He then told me “I read that one text message every day, it makes me smile”. I said what text. “He said the one where you say I’m up on my pedestal, I read it everyday and it makes me laugh”. I did not ask him to clarify. I told him I don’t remember what the text says and that I don’t have it anymore, and my phone is at the bottom of a lake. I got out of the car, told him to take care, wished him good luck with his Nan and said “stay out of trouble and all that stuff ha ha”.
Long story short, I guess I am just wondering what the purpose of telling me he thought about running me over was and what the purpose of the comment regarding the pedestal text message was?
1. You are not no contact if he can text you so easily.
2. Comment about running you over was provocation to gain fuel and also to test your response to see if it bothered you.
3. The pedestal comment was also designed to gain fuel by referring to a past interaction and also to see in what manner your responded so he could assess whether there was further potential to draw fuel from you and/or bring you under control.
Hi,
I have been No Contact for over 18 months with Mid-Range Narc. He then texted me “Out of the Blue” as someone in his family passed away. Am sorry about the loss, but I believe that is indeed an excellent excuse for a Hoover, isn’t it. His game lasted 30 days. I told him my opinion and there he goes again, blaming ME for what HE did. Sent me a “dis-engagement” e-mail (which I left unanswered – it landed in the Spam folder anyway, so officially I did not receive anything).His last sentence without full stop (ha ha). Now giving me the silent treatment. His soul is so dark it makes me sad. Sending him pictures of candle-light, I would be interested what could be going on in his mind? Thanks Mr Tudor, excellent tuition! Glad I stumbled upon this blog.
You are welcome.
HG, Hello. I am not sure how to say this or put it all in one paragraph so here goes. I met a homeless veteran sitting out at Walmart when I first moved here. I remember giving him money and then crying at home asking God to help me help him. I started seeing him every chance I got: took him to eat, bought him clothing, gave him hotel stays. I started to fall in love with him. He was a very very angry man, and he would often change his moods like a light switch: he would be very kind and so much fun to talk to and be around, then he would be very abusive, nearly physical grabbing my hands and hurting me, screaming out obscenities and making me scared. There was a time I took him to eat at McDonalds and he blew up at me. He left the car while I went to the drive through window and the employees asked if I needed help. He was telling me to leave, so I tried. Then he walked to the car as I was leaving and opened doors, got in front of the car. Then there were times he held me very sweetly, although it was rare, and made love to me. He told me I was an amazing “friend”. He has been told how much I love him, and how much I would like to be with him. He would get very very angry with me and tell me NO! It is never going to happen. Today, fast forward three years of knowing him. Throughout those three years HG, we had some crazy arguments. He often came to me and asked for help and I came running. I always told him I would be there for him. And I was. But he is very obviously using me. Now what I don’t understand HG is this: He now has a job, still lives in his car but can purchase hotel stays once in a while. Now that he has all of this, I am finding he is less interested in seeing and talking to me. This is why I believe he may have Narcissism. I also have a strange situation that happened before he did all of this: He bought me a 400 dollar swarovski crystal, stating he didnt know where he would be or where I would be christmas, so he bought that. My thought was he wanted to keep me where he wanted me. I don’t know. Not sure what all of this means, but I have told him goodbye through an email, and I destroyed the account. I am sure he will not be back, and I know I will not be looking either. Nobody else has mentioned this, so I will be the first: I am devastated. I am heartbroken. I love him with all my heart and to know he is this way, and I have to erase all that I thought he was. It is painful. It is disgusting and I don’t want to believe it, however it is real. I really thought with everything maybe there would be a reason to be a little better for maybe, me? Thanks HG any feedback would be helpful.
Hi HG,
I need to ask you questions that I am not getting answers to, from the person that should answer them.
He left me 2 months ago, like if I was a piece of trash, of no worth at all.
I was pathetically begging him, crying on the doorstep, not to leave me.
I am aware of the constant abuse.
I love him.
From “I want to marry you and have a family with you. Your a gift to me.” he went to “We have nothing in common and you don’t get me. I don’t want you to be my partner.” in a split second and shut the door on me.
I don’t know what I did or what I did not do.
He has stuff at my place that he is not picking up and has keys to my apartment that he is not returning.
None of my former texts, I sent him, got answered, he went completely mute on me and now Aim just pathetically waiting.
He texted me 2 weeks ago, out of the blue, in an odd morning hour, saying that he would give my stuff back in a given timeframe that he himself picked.
No cute stuff, not even a “Hi, what’s up”.
But, he has never showed up, nor said a word.
Since then, I am silently waiting and waiting.
I am desperate. I am not telling him that, but I am. I am trying to act as if I wasn’t, but I am.
I am not a commenter who is happy that her abuser has gone.
I love him, truly, for the person that I see beyond the lies.
I see the wounds, I see he is hurt while he is being evil to me.
I want to show him that he can get the acceptance that he has been longing for.
I wish I had realized the “rules” while I was still with him.
So here come the questions:
-Why am I not good enough to be any kind of a fuel source anymore?
A real one, I mean. He could torture me on and on in real life, as he pleases.He could walk all over me each week, just like he did before to feel powerful.
So why wont he take his chance?
-Why would he trash me instead of training me in?
He broke me just enough so that I would happily do anything on Earth and play along and jump up and down. Why does he not want to practise his power on me in 3 dimensions, when I would be happy to “serve” him?
(I am aware that I myself need therapy…But I want to help him and show him I am there for him.)
-Should I keep on waiting for him to cool off or is he expecting me to contact him regardless of his earlier rejections?
Trying to contact him from time to time would cause him more frustration and fury or would rather please him? What kind of a fuel source would that be?
Even though he is seemingly rejecting my fuel, does he latently still want it? Would my role be to keep trying on and on, or should I leave him (more) space as he requested?
-Does he care about leaving his belongings behind?
-If I am persistent enough, can I ever make him feel accepted? Can he learn to trust?
Thank you very much!
Hello Szaffi, welcome on board. I daresay you mean you hope to get the answers from the person you are involved with and of course you will not because that is all part of the dynamic and the manipulation to keep you in place, confused and pumping with fuel. With regard to your various questions, I can certainly address the for you and in order to do so fully and effectively, the most appropriate way is through a consultation, details of which you can find in the menu bar of the blog.
Your story sounds exactly like mine…only in april 2018… he wasnt a pharmacist was he?
Hi HG. Recently went through my first discard with a narc. I’m an empath, so I suppose an easy target. That being said, I also recognized what he was doing, play by play, and I called him out on every move. It was very short lived, so I’m fairly certain I was a secondary. I’ve applied the NC rule, but there’s no question our paths will cross again due to our intersecting circles. Two part question for you…I’ve been reading about the theory that empaths and narcs start out the same but evolve differently. The narc can’t stand feeling deeply, so they go to the opposite extreme of the spectrum and inflict chaos and pain to eleviate what their true self feels. If that theory is true, and empathy CAN be learned, then couldn’t the empath armed with the knowledge of NPD potentially be the teacher? Second part of the question…if you are a Narc, and Narcs lack empathy, then how are you so good at helping all the people on this blog navigate through some of the darkest challenges they will face? That act alone, in my opinion, shows a great deal of empathy! Thank you for putting into words all the things we suspect and confirming we aren’t the crazy ones!!!
I really do hope this guy in the picture is not you, HG. This image is so freaky.
No it’s not.
Can I ask why given the fact my ex narc has a new supply when he visits to come and collect our son he says things like… we couldn’t get Back together cause u have anger issues or reasons to why we couldn’t get back together are these hoovers? It’s hard to understand why he would mention about reasons of us getting back together whether they are positive or negative, same as he still questions and acts almost jealous if I am seeing anyone etc… sometimes he will gaslight me in a way as it’s a joke and it’s back and fourth digs between us, other time’s he is really angry and nasty towards me, he said the other week maybe he wants to be single and on his own he has no time for anyone else to me and then he was back with his supply which doesn’t look as much as he is making it out to be… now he is giving me the silent treatment when I message him, it’s strange sometomes he states he wants me to move away and other times he is giving hints about coming back but I’m a negative way as to why he couldn’t, and questions me about my life. It’s very confusing and it’s hard to move forward. I ended our relationship 3 months ago after being together 7 years with a child. When I first broke it off the first 2 weeks he was feigning illnesses. Just wondered if you could tell me what this all means as sometimes he is making threats and acts like i am nothing and othertimes he is making hints about if he cane back why he couldn’t or says I have anger issues. I don’t know what he is playing at really. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks
Hello LH2016 thanks for your post,
1. “Can I ask why given the fact my ex narc has a new supply when he visits to come and collect our son he says things like… we couldn’t get Back together cause u have anger issues or reasons to why we couldn’t get back together are these hoovers?”
This is projection and also hoovers designed to upset you, cause you to explain why you might get back together, make you angry etc. He does this not because he care about being with you or not, but he does this because he wants the fuel.
2. “It’s hard to understand why he would mention about reasons of us getting back together whether they are positive or negative, same as he still questions and acts almost jealous if I am seeing anyone etc…” – again he does this for fuel and his jealousy is based on the fact that if you are seeing someone you are both giving them fuel (and not him) but it is also an inherent criticism to him, because you are focused on somebody else. He may not want you but he does not want somebody else to have you.
3. ‘ sometimes he will gaslight me in a way as it’s a joke and it’s back and fourth digs between us, other time’s he is really angry and nasty towards me, ‘ – this is designed to both gain fuel and confuse you so you are wondering why is he okay with me one moment and not the next. It is to keep you emotional and bewildered.
4. ” he said the other week maybe he wants to be single and on his own he has no time for anyone else to me and then he was back with his supply which doesn’t look as much as he is making it out to be…” – we are renowned for our contradictory words and behaviour. This is again to draw a reaction from you to see how you respond to the suggestion that he might be available again. He is probing you for information to ascertain whether further hoovers should take place.
5. “now he is giving me the silent treatment when I message him,” – a common manipulation
6. ” it’s strange sometomes he states he wants me to move away and other times he is giving hints about coming back but I’m a negative way as to why he couldn’t, and questions me about my life. It’s very confusing and it’s hard to move forward.” – again this is all about control, he wants you confused, not sure what to think so you will be weakened and emotional thus he can control you and gain fuel.
You should read Manipulated, Black Flag, Black Hole, Devil’s Toolkit and Escape so you understand what he is doing and why, plus how you counter the behaviour.
HG,
You’re so right! It’s been nearly 2 years with no contact and out of the blues, he calls, leaving me no voice message. I don’t respond. Then, he emails me that he’s messaging me although I told him I closed my email account way back then. He tells me I hurt him and got him mad when I packed up and left while he wasnt home. (He’s the one that told me “I want you out and you won’t leave” and gave me the silent treatment for 2 months. He told me then that he stopped loving me 4 years ago.) In his email, he says he doesn’t hate me and wants to pay me half of what I spent for his birthday party (It was 12 years ago and it cost me $8,000) and to send him my work address and he will pay me over the course of a year. and theres no obligation. He mentioned because we were together for so long, he can’t bear the thought of me hating him. And twice, he says he knows I am happier and better off than staying with him. I don’t get it; why after 2 years?
Alison
Thank you Alison. Essentially you entered a sphere of influence and he saw an opportunity to gain fuel. There was a Hoover Trigger and the Hoover Execution Criteria were met (see It’s the End Isn’t it? for more along with the Spheres of Influence and Hoover Time- Sphere One). Thus even though two years has elapsed a hoover will follow because of the trigger and the criteria.
One narcissist I know stopped his victim from commiting suicide because he’d loose her fuel… funny how she didn’t know about it and she thought he cared about actually her. .
Exactly right Maddie.
Is that really all in that scenario? You, yourself have said you would not want to see someone take it to that extreme. I know the fuel is the main motivator, but you are also not wired as a psychopath killer. As many tools are in your toolkit, driving a person to that brink of madness and hopelessness does not seem the goal.
It looks like this never received a reply. Is that because Tudor is worried about legal implications (I’m not a lawyer but I highly doubt there would be any repercussions — at least of the legal variety). I’m almost certain a Narcissistic Personality Disordered individual would gain a sickening amount of pleasure from a previous partner’s suicide attempt or completed suicide.
No.
1. There is no obligation on me to answer – people tend to forget that!
2. If I do not answer it is because
a. I may have missed the question;
b. I have explained the answer previously and I am saving time not answering it again;
c. The answer can be obtained from reading my work;
d. I do not have time to do so.
Very occasionally I choose not to answer certain questions, but 99% of the time I do so, save where a-d apply. Applying those exclusions still results in around 95% of all questions asked being answered.
Yes HG, I love the part in wedding vows “to obey” , do love that yet in the right setting 😉
Staying confident + neutral, unemotional, not caring, is indeed the only thing that worked.
Frankly just got bored w/ the drama, no time or energy for it — ♡
Set my world to avoid the Narc, first 5 steps, it works
Narc still tries to reach me thru my pro kiteboard coach (secondary or tertiary), but coach knows to protect me 😉
It’s good being F.R.E.E….thank you, H.G. 😉
You’ve helped more than any therapist. Seriously ♡
Thank you ICGB, high praise indeed.
Till death do us part, gives it a whole new meaning now.
Doesn’t it just RMG?
I agree, the pictures are hilarious! 🙂
Until me or You dies…
Hahahah I hope so !!
Love the pic HG, I wonder where that idea came from ?
This reminded me so much of a scene from ‘human traffic’. You need to watch from 20s to 50s as the rest is completely irrelevant.
This is literally what I see every time the N tries to hoover me or anyone else.
https://youtu.be/i3aPqrFOCvc
What criteria influence you returning to someone who sees who you are…demands the accountability you refuse to provide..will not allow you to tell the lies and garner the reaction your deceit once provided..
One who shows you the contempt that you have made obvious in your interaction with them?
Once the game is up..wouldn’t any innocent provide what you crave..do much more easily and comfortably..
Is that an attraction to one who realizes your true nature..when most of the world does not?
If so, what is the motivation..
?
The fact that somebody demands accountability from us provides us with an angle by which we can extract more fuel. This person wants us to be responsible for what we have done and accordingly we might engage in false contrition to give them this and then frustrate them all the more by engaging in a denial of accountability.
I note you state that you will not allow us to tell the lies but we can and will tell the lies. You may not react to them as you once did, but you cannot stop us telling those lies.
The game is never up. Even if a person realises our true nature, they may still not be aware of HOW to deal with that true nature. Instead, it is far more common to find the victim engaging in trying to persuade us to see what they see, to change, to make amends and be accountable – all of those desires and wants on the part of the victim are apt for exploitation.
Hoover Henry needs a shower. The picture popped up in my phone and my thumbs were like no way are we going near THAT. They edged around the border.
As you said, in the end it is up to us to how we manage this. All of us.
I am seriously disturbed by this picture. I am sure you are enjoying knowing you have caused a discomfort.
I’m finished for the night.
Gross. I didn’t post the pic, so that discomfort I didnt cause. It is discomforting.
He needs a bug bomb or fumigation or something.
Psst..that means you too.
I know you did not post it. I agree with you, Henry needs more then a shower.
Not sure if it posted so I will write it again. This creepy guy looks like he hangs in the basement too much. Please do not use this again, it is disturbing. How did you get someone to dress up like this?
I do wonder is that you HG, yet kinda looks familiar, wonder is that the same guy that was in mudd…..
Yet it’s never the end, at least not until one is dead.
Excellent as always, HG!
Proximity, not being able to move and not having a support network increase my exposure to group attacks. Although I am easy to contact, I do not respond and do not provide any fuel. Smear campaigns have been 100% effective. Unless the bullies move, which is very unlikely, there will be no end. I wish I were able to build a support network. Being an introvert and lacking social skills is not easy.
HG, are you Henry?? I hope you do not indulge yourself in those experiments. 🙂
No I am not Henry.
Really? Not what I heard.
Great post! Is a F.R.E.E. highly disliked/found annoying by a Narcissist or how does that Narcissist view a F.R.E.E?
Thank you Sarah. A F.R.E.E. is infuriating to us because that person is not giving us what we need. We therefore need to find someone else to provide us with the fuel instead.
Thank you, as always for your response 😉 I have one more question if you do have the time…does a Narcissist ever experience the opposite of a F.R.E.E.like a stalker who just won’t let the Narcissist go? For the sake of discussion, let’s call such a person Crazy Bitch (CB). Would a Narcissist view a CB as a threat or a delight based on the fact they stalk the Narcissist and like come to the Narcissist’s house uninvited and refuses to leave them alone?
The CB would be welcomed so long as said CB is providing fuel and not buggering up any other plans and machinations. Two of my former primary source appliances have gone that way. It was an entertaining time.
Hi HG, in regards to your above comment: Is it welcomed even though they are irritated/pissed off/hateful about the CB “bothering” them? I did some experimenting of my own, just trying this and that, like contacting him with apologies for my behavior only, asking him about his band, giving him info that I thought might be useful for some things he’d asked me about when we were still on speaking terms, etc, all the while I was very aware of what he is and what I was doing. Basically, hoovering him. He never responded once directly anyway but he did follow up on social media calling me names (including stalker–lol) and made up some nastiness about my character to which not a single person commented or liked his post about me. Is what I did considered welcome or was he ready to come strangle me? I have since gone NC, but 2 weeks ago, I was driving and saw his work van. We were both stopped at a red light so I pretended to not see him, turned up my stereo and cracked my window. He was a car length behind me and in the other lane. When the light turned green, he hung back and waited to see if I went straight or turned (he was turning). He was worried that I might see him–lol. I was also wearing a blue wig and didn’t know if he’d seen or recognized me, until he hung back. I’m pretty sure he’s afraid of me since he saw my aggressive side and how I don’t back down, even though he was doing his best to scare me. Thanks HG!
First let me say that the picture you used is VERY disturbing and reminds me of some guy from the Jerry Springer show right out of some trailer park, smelling of beer that makes up 80% of his blood.
I am safe from the 1st five spheres. I am F.R.E.E.
I am not an excellent fuel source.
Over one month of no contact, although he does cross my mind, there is no hurt feelings or desire to reach out to him.
A very thought out piece. I like it. Except the creepy guy sniffing exhaust. Please don’t use that one again.
Wait!!! Is this you HG? Slipping in a selfie on us.
That picture is sort of scary.
First time commenter, here. Great blog. I love how categorical and methodical you are in how you break down and explain things. This appeals greatly to the way I think. I’m coming to terms with the theory that the so-called Great Love of my last six years is a narcissist. No need to elaborate more. Let’s just presume that he is. I’ve been many times through a push/pull cycle with him. When we take space from each other, it is triggered by discard, but it doesn’t take long for me to feel more like I have escaped. After the initial hurt, I begin to enjoy the peace and quiet, I feel better about myself, my confidence comes back, and I am better able to see this relationship for what it really is, and invoke a detached compassion both for myself and for him. For me, its my own confidence that can trigger a return to “pull” to “engage” to be available for fuel. Not only must my confidence appeal to him, but I feel each time like, “ok, this time, I really learned some things on my own, and I will have the ability to keep my head above water, and pull out when he starts using me up again.” This confidence opens me up each and every time to get eaten up and spit through the cycle once again. For whatever reason, the confidence doesn’t translate into a state of F.R.E.E.dom. I’m telling you, this guy is “good”.
Hello Nichtisobel, good to have you here and thank you for your kind comments. You post a good analysis of your situation. Having the confidence in yourself does not equate to becoming a F.R.E.E. because you are still evidently pumping out fuel which is of attraction to him. You are clearly giving him fuel when he re-engages with you and probably of a positive nature. Even though you may be wary of his manipulations as to when he is using you up, at the outset you are still giving him fuel, hence why he keeps coming back.
To be a F.R.E.E. you need to utilise your confidence to ensure you are not giving him fuel by either not engaging at all, or if you do, to do so in a neutral and unemotional manner so that he does not get any fuel.
I 100% believe you when you say “it lasts until one of us dies”
It becomes clearer and clearer to me.
A few days before I discovered the word narcissist I was adamant that my ex hated me and I would never see or hear from her again. Now I can laugh at that. She keeps coming back and she will continue. You have taught me well but I still admit to being in the emotional sea some days. Not as many though and you HG will be the first one I come to for advice. Thanks 🍎
No it’s never really the end. You SAY it’s the end many times, and you always mean it.
With all the exes out there (ex girlfriends, wives, fiancees, etc ), that’s a long list for a narcissist to hover. My goodness, that in itself is a full time job, tracking all the spheres of influence. It reminds me of a airport control tower: monitoring the coming and goings of primary, secondary, tertiary, along with formers, and future potentials. Perhaps that’s what you mean about that isolated tower of yours. What a grueling job you have. 🙁
I remember the majority of the relationship he would complain about how much he hated the city we lived in yet he found his own place to live there now, I assume that is because I have not left… I also told him that I will be disappearing where no one can find me and he assures me that he will find me, he will always find me. NC doesn’t completely work, it is almost like you have to be relocated into a witness protection program of some sort and even then I cannot change the way I look…
I cannot imagine, after all of this time, that he still hasn’t found a great fuel source. Do y’all tend to make comparisons to those that have left y’all to potential new sources? I think you said that one has never left you, so this question may be out of your reach however, maybe you have compared a past to the present and decided she wasn’t sufficient enough?
There are occasions where a comparison will be made, it is a natural response and there are times where a primary source has been considered less effective than the one that has been replaced (although this rarely happens straight away) and therefore the discard will happen sooner because of this comparison.
Can your kind become obsessed with one fuel source? I do not question what he is in anyway but I just don’t understand the obsession… and it is an obsession, at least publicly that is what he is showing. Could it be possible that is his way of gaining fuel from everyone including strangers? Do you know, or have you heard of a narcissist having multiple mental illnesses on top of NPD?
There are other mental health conditions which can be co-morbid with NPD.
One may indeed become obsessed with a particular appliance if it provides spectacular levels of fuel.
*it is almost like you have to be relocated into a witness protection program of some sort and even then I cannot change the way I look…
I HAVE HAD EXACTLY THIS THOUGHT
Thats because it’s true…
No contact on my end for an entire year. He’s still driving by, watching my social media… texts when he doesn’t like what I’ve posted or just to tell me he loves and misses me. He’s still stopping at the gas station by my work and inquiring about me… who knows if there is someone in my distant circle who gives him updates…
All of this and I do not reply or acknowledge…
I’m just glad that his intentions are at a distance…
Do NOT think that any kind gestures on his/her behalf or “understanding” means he’ll/she’ll leave you alone… it’s all verbal vomit!
I won’t stop living my life, I refuse to hide…. he can’t keep me prisoner but I know I’ll always be watching my back!
Ok I understand that you feel there is always going to be a narcissistic relationship but if I become a F.R.E.E by way of not engaging when he’s around will the hoovers become less and less? Of course since the next year will be visits to our son in my home I am obviously going to fall into the first 5 spheres. So it’s not possible to stop that at this moment. But if I become essentially a “gray rock” will he stop saying we might have a chance of reviving our marriage? Your previous advice was to just say that’s not going to happen. So if I stick with that will it stop?
I’m going to attempt to stay strong next visit. To not engage in “us” talk whether it be past, present or future. But I’m pretty sure just being the nice person I am will give him fuel when he’s here. He’ll walk away thinking I was nice because of him. That I didn’t lash out because he’s superior.
In reference to the previous article: Can’t I decide just to get off the damn see saw I was put on?
1. Yes the hoovers will lessen.
2. You are correct, you will enter the spheres of influence.
3. By making yourself a F.R.E.E. he will stop suggesting there is a chance of reviving the marriage as there will be no point.
You can try and get off the see saw but it can be a rather hard return to earth!
The return to earth will be painful. Brace yourself for the last landing. You can do it.
He always told me he owned me and no matter what I did or where I went or who I was with, he owned me. I’ve always been nervous of him popping back up. Thanks for writing this.
😖😖😖 Hoovers are not succesful when the other hoovered person does not allow it..
Hello? Am I doing this right ?? Lol
Hello HF….came across a you tube video that was an interview with you and now I find myself here trying to get a hold of you ! Lol….I’ve never commented on a blog before but after my “epiphany” I am so desperate for answers ! I commented twice earlier today but I only see the one above asking if I’m doing this right
Hello ES, you have got hold of me and this is the place where you will find the answers to the many questions that you have. There are a number of comments currently in moderation and that is where your other comments will be. I read everything that is posted and answer all questions, accordingly there is sometimes a delay before I do so.
Guess I read this a bit late, I just told him earlier that he will never be allowed to touch me again.
Just when I was like, it’s been 5 weeks yea!!! I now understand what he meant by tell me years ago I will never leave you….
Interesting that you say this… the first night I met my ex narcissist he said (as he wrapped his arms around me lovingly) “Now that I have you, I’ll never let you go.” Fell for it, hook, line and sinker. Now the thought of this creeps me out- he actually meant it lol.