The Mind Games – Part Two
Having detailed some of the mind games that we deploy against you, this leads to the inevitable question of why do we do this? I daresay that some of you will be tempted to answer
“Because you are all arseholes.”
Whilst this is understandable and potentially accurate (when viewed from your perspective) it is not going to provide you with any insight into the workings of our minds and behaviours. Accordingly, I will expand on why it is we use mind games to comprehensively.
- Fuel. An obvious one and rightly the first one that is considered. The application of mind games to the dynamic between you and us is done in order to prompt an emotional reaction from you and thus garner fuel from you. Whether you become upset, distraught, frustrated, annoyed or angry as a consequence of the games being played, it is all fuel which we will readily drink up.
- Control. We are obsessed with control. Our environment must be beholden to us. We have to control everything around us in order to ensure that we continue to exist, receive fuel, minimise and remove risks and so forth. By subjecting you to mind games, we are able to achieve this need for control, since you become trapped by them, you remain paralysed by their effects as you try to establish what is happening, rather than knowing them for what they are and moving away from them.
- Future planning. It is a common outcome from entangling with our kind that you will be labelled as The Crazy One once you have been discarded or escaped, as part of the smear campaign. The mind games bring about such a state of mind in you that it becomes easy enough for us to point to your behaviour during devaluation, your behaviour post discard/escape and demonstrate that you are indeed unhinged. There are very few people who can actually resist the proliferation of mind games and not be affected by them in some way and many people are left at the end of their tether creating an appearance of being “crazy”.
- Façade management. By engaging in games where we are I control, you are seen as histrionic and volatile, where we are calm and pleasant to everybody but you and causing people to form an adverse view about you, this allows us to manage and maintain the façade. We have an array of lieutenants and members of our coterie who all regard us as decent and kind, which then makes your life even harder in terms of trying to persuade people about what we really are.
- Superiority reinforcement. We operate from the perspective that we are superior to everybody around us and especially you. By engaging in games where we are able to pull the string, make you upset and angry and exert control, this allows us to emphasise that we are indeed superior to you.
- Self-defence. Many of the mind games that we engage in are because we need to defend ourselves from being challenged or criticised. Hence when we project, deny, deflect and blame-shift, although there may be a collateral benefit in terms of how it affects you, the primary reason for engaging in these behaviour is to protect ourselves by rejecting blame, preventing your challenge and addressing criticism.
- Exhaustion. With any situation, you respond to it more effectively when you are rested and able to think in a clear manner. The deployment of mind games causes you to become exhausted which results in your lacking clarity, experiencing a reduced resistance and diminished will-power. This means that you are far less likely to try to escape what we are doing and far more likely to accept doing what we want.
- Plausible deniability. By operating within the vestiges of the spoken, gestures and actions, we are often able to maintain being vague and amorphous. This allows us to manipulate you to a further degree but also serves an incredibly useful purpose in denying that we have engaged in such behaviours to begin with, especially with a third party. If we are challenged by, for example, someone in authority, we can point to the absence of proof or turn it into the word of someone calm and reasonable against some frazzled, ranting Crazy Person.
- Impact. The impact of emotional and psychological abuse is invariably more difficult for the victim to handle that physical abuse. Whilst physical abuse is understandably unpleasant, the insidious nature of mind games means that the victim cannot grasp what is happening, cannot ascertain if they are being subjected to a mind game (being punched is obvious and unequivocal) and cannot fathom why they are being treated in this manner. You no doubt will have heard victims state,
“I would have preferred to have been physically assaulted than be put through the mental torture.”
For someone to choose physical injury over this underlines just how devastating the impact is.
- Lack of detectability. Alongside plausible deniability is the fact that a bruise is a bruise and therefore raises questions. It is far harder to determination the effect of the mind games. Yes, someone may present as exhausted, anxious, hypervigilant, terrified and so on, but there is always the potential for us to suggest that it is put on and/or is related to something else. It is harder to do this with physical abuse (although not impossible). Indeed, some people do not allow the effect of the mind games to be seen, preferring to keep it hidden from other parties.
- Erosion. If you suffer a broken arm, you can still function. You can use your other arm, you can walk places, talk, you can hear and see and so forth. The mind games naturally affect that which controls and governs everything you do. By wearing down your mind, we are able to grind you down, causing your resistance to weaken and preventing you from functioning in a manner which might aid your escape from us.
- Tenderising. The application of mind games through achieving erosion and exhaustion as described above means that in effect you are being “tenderised” for further manipulations to be applied against you with maximum effect.
- Empathic vulnerability. As a person who has empathic traits and thus the reason why you were targeted by us, you are more susceptible to these kind of behaviours. Mind games work especially well against you as a consequence of your traits such as honesty, decency, telling the truth, needing to understand, wanting to help and your emotional responses.
- Endeavour. Some of the mind games end up making you try harder to please and do things for us with the additional benefit which naturally arises from this.
- Power. This is applicable to the Greater Narcissist only as the Lesser and Mid-Range are not aware of the true extent of the application of mind games. The Greater Narcissist revels in being apply to treat somebody in this manner, distort their world, have them jumping and moving at their say so, causing them to fountain with fuel and have no idea how or why this is being done to them. The various manipulations and their outcomes means this appeals to the omnipotence which Greaters believe that they have.
114 thoughts on “The Mind Games – Part Two”
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HG, what is one supposed to do when they are in your face constantly?
I have told him to leave me alone so many times I look foolish now. He either contacts me and I cave in, or he makes sure he’s everywhere I am so I break NC. Then he acts like an arse again. So I can not tell him to leave me alone. His response would be ‘how many times is it now, I count 50, 60…whatever’. So I refuse to do that. When I go NC without announcing it I feel as bad as him doing the ST. And within two weeks I feel so guilt ridden I contact him because I convince myself I’m the abuser.
How do I do this? He’s been away for the past week and I have been so happy. But he must be back now, so he will make sure he’s in my face so that I contact him. If I don’t contact him, he will contact me. It will be a simple stupid line like ‘how was your weekend’. We will have two days of talking and he’ll do the vanish again and I’ll be stressed out.
Hello Watermelon, remember NC is not always successfully implemented the first time of trying. Indeed, it takes many attempts to succeed. It might be that you need to measure your progress in stages. So if the first NC lasted two weeks, aim for three weeks or more the second time and if you cave in, don’t beat yourself up, start again but then make it say five weeks at least for the third time. Little by little your inherent resistance will build so it becomes easier to maintain, you just need to get yourself over that emotional “hump” which is hindering you. Make sure you remove as many ways a possible for him to contact you, get some other distractions, stay out of the spheres of influence, make yourself a f.r.e.e. and if you haven’t done so already ready, Escape, Black Hole, No Contact and Exorcism as a minimum. You need to alter your method of thinking and build your defences. It is achievable. He is only in your face if you let him and give him reason to be in your face. Minimise the opportunities and make yourself an unattractive fuel proposition and he will go elsewhere.
Thanks, HG Tudor, I am sure I speak for many people when I say that we appreciate your time in replying to us.
I have a few of your books to get through on my phone. I keep trying to come here and read anytime I’m tempted to get in touch. Better to talk to you (and others) than feed that man’s ego.
The NC always fails because I feel so guilty about doing it to him. He clearly doesn’t feel guilty ignoring me, whatever the reason he’s currently ignoring me is (as usual, I am in the dark).
You are welcome Watermelon.
Yes you will be in the dark viz a viz him, but you will find plenty of illumination here. It is a good policy to come here instead of contacting him.
“Better to talk to you (and others) than feed that man’s ego.”
Smart! This site is Narc methadone. Most of us have had to struggle to break the addiction(s), plus when you’re not feeding your ex’s ego, he runs low on fuel and eventually starts to look for another fuel source.
Hi HG Tudor, I really have no idea where to start here, all I know is I have been referred by some really lovely women from another site called SheBlossoms.. basically I have just copied and pasted exactly my opening letter on their site and would like your opinion and views please, thanks very much Anne..
I’m at a loss as to where to start here, I’ve been reading this thread for a few days now and it has given me some comfort.. I find myself with a very heavy heart right now and very upset.. ok so I was pursued by a friend of my sibling for months but only thru online social media and not in person as such, met once at family gathering but that was it.. I never really took much notice to him and even thought him a bit odd really as he used to send me all the fashionable pics of himself but I did exchange some too of my sense of fashion.. my failing relationship ended, I ended it on new years eve after 16 yrs as I didn’t want to go thru another year of torture.. best decision Ive ever made, but was hard on our teens and still is.. he rarely sees them. Anyway this man that was pursuing me I finally gave in around May of this year and I’m embarrassed and ashamed to say we had online sex.. something Ive never in my life done before as I’m in my 40’s. This led to me developing huge feelings for him and he me, only problem is he is married with a new baby too.. but I did not let that stop me from a quick fumble and a kiss at yet another family function.. that was two months ago and I well got my karma for that one.. I put a stop to it, plus we got caught with the kiss by a family member, so embarrassing. I have tried and tried to stop the contact as it is only ever online but once I stop he seems to reel me back in again and I just feel like we are going around and around and around in circles here, with the same conversations of him saying I cant not contact you what do you expect me to do? Ive never brought up his wife he says I’m sorry I cant walk, I said I never would expect you to.. he is not one of these men that talks bad of his Wife, on the contrary, he still loves her, fancies her and nothing bad between them as I have asked. I’m so confused as to why he insists on persuing me as I’m also about four or five years older than him too.. he said that I have just turned his head and he does not know what to do as this has never happened to him in his life before, my sisters told me to stay away from him and also my brother as I am not that type of person.. believe me I have tried and tried and still trying.. My final mail was sent to him this morning and he has been online constantly but never even responded, I have been such a fool.. I feel like my heart is broken, perhaps I am still at a very vunerable stage here? please God somebody please help me break the ties here.. for once and for all.. I cannot get him out of my head, my mind and I am back in college and trying to focus to get my degree so I can get a job again, I cannot concentrate as I constantly check my phone and texts etc, to see if he is online, then the texting starts but mainly at the weekend and I feel so happy to be talking to him then nothing.. feel so used.. any and all advice is very welcome now as this is beginning to seriously interfere with my life now.. I was not aware just how involved and how much you could emotionally attach yourself to someone online.. only saw him twice in a year and both at family functions.. please somebody help, Anne..
I will certainly look into this book you suggest, but for now my head is in such a whiz its hard to concentrate.. and yes this pain is not nice at all.. feel like my heart is broken, feel foolish really as most of it was online between us the majority really.. and yes I did begin to think that he caught me at my most vunerable.. but what really and truelly puzzles me the absolute most is that he has never ever promised me any sort of commitment and neither have I vice versa.. instead it has purely really been verbal through text, a very odd phone call only actually once as its always the wrong time to call yet Ive only asked twice.. again we have only ever had one very brief pyshical encounter and most just kissing as the rest not worth talking about really a bit of a disaster really when I think of it.. I’m not a stupid person, far from it really actually very intelligent and I actually find he is kind of dumb in many ways and he would not be the type of man I would ever usually go or fall for.. so perhaps you have a very valid point there on him catching me at my lowest ebb, and if he has well shame on him even more so..
I was doing so well for a month and not contacting him and he then began again with the weekend one liners, I miss you, Hi how are you, Can I say hi to you, I cant believe its come to this, Gorgious babe, etc etc etc.. I was strong again not to reply to those and deleted him from any social media etc.. yet in the last couple of weeks I have been reeled straight back in again with the nonsense talk of how much he loves me and doesn’t know how to get rid of these feelings for me so when I ask him straight out what I was to him? he never even responded and left me heart broken all night long thinking about it.. I then sent him the final text yesterday saying enough is enough now I have my self respect and morals and what he is doing is so wrong and also me too.. even if it is mostly only talking.. I said that if he was truly happy in his marriage he would not have feelings for anyone else and so on etc.. needless to say I have not heard back from him, but rest assured I will as there is a pattern developing here where I will begin to somehow get the good owl one liners and appologies again.. he is married and is happy so why the hell does he want to torture me like this? as I tell him hes married and his reply is I know but what can I do, I answer I cant tell you what to do you have your own mind then the conversation ends.. I’m just so sick of it all now at this stage and truelly want freedom from all this mental torture.. thanks again for the reply I will in my own time look into the Narc side of things too as it makes sense.. Anne.
Hello Anne and welcome on board.
1. This behaviour is narcissistic. This man wants fuel from you (see my book Fuel for greater detail about this) but put simply we need fuel from people. This fuel is an emotional response caused by us. It might be what we say, do, how we look and so forth. Fuel comes in many, many forms. It might be you saying “I love you”, it might be a colleague praising me for a deal done well, it might be someone shouting at me and telling me that they hate me, it might be someone crying because I hurt them, it might me someone giving me an admiring look as I walk past. He is gaining fuel from you everytime through these interactions with you.
2. He is triangulating you with his wife. He says he cannot leave, again to provoke a response from you, this gives him fuel. He is gaining fuel from her as well. He may be pleasant to her, he may be nasty to her, but he will be gaining fuel and it is common for our kind to triangulate (see Manipulated).
3. He has done this before (he will not admit it to you in order to make you feel special). His pursuit of you and your ensnarement are entirely typical.
4. He does not love you. He does not know what it is.
5. He is creating an illusion to keep drawing you in.
6. No Contact is rarely achieved the first time of asking, it can take many different attempts to get it right.
7. He wants you to be emotional so you will give him fuel but also because this will keep you from moving forward so he can engage in the push and pull.
8. None of this is your fault. You are not stupid. This is typical behaviour of a narcissist and it is very effective, this is why we behave this way; it works.
You are in an emotional sea. You need to build a boat from logic and understanding so you can get across this sea. The way to do this is to understand what he is, what he is doing, why he does and why he chose you. To gain that understanding you have come to the right place because I will answer all those questions in an honest and straightforward way. Once you understand you can then sail towards freedom by implementing no contact and sticking by it.
Read the material on this blog, fill your boots, ask questions of me and the other posters they are intelligent and sensible, they also know what you are going through. Read my books – I recommend you start with Fuel, Sitting Target, Manipulated and Red Flag, as building your understanding is the first step before implementing techniques to counter him.
Do pass my thanks on to She Blossoms for the referral.
Hi HG, I firstly wanted to say a big thanks for your reply to which I do appreciate, my head however is still very much in a whiz about this man, as perhaps I did not want to see him in this light and I am still in fact in a state of denial over the whole situation too.. when you say he never loved me, that also really gets to me as in annoyance and feel rather belittled too..
So basically, all this talk of him telling me that he should have met me years ago and that he loves me so much and how lucky he is to have a gorgous babe like me, even though I don’t even see him.. and how great I make him feel and that his gut instinct tells him it should be me with him.. all this it will be very hard if we don’t stay in contact but even though I have now since deleted him twice on social media he wont let me add him again, says his wife will notice as she asked previous why I was back on and was I not already a friend and he lied and said oh I must have deleted her by accident.. why oh why have I got myself tangled up in this emotionall mess of a nightmare.. it has literally made me dizzy with the stress of it all.. and whilst I’m strong enough to cut off all ties once more, I do feel that this is going to be a repeating pattern over and over until I just finally just STOP full to a halt..
You know sometimes, I even think to myself, what the hell do I even see in him? we don’t even have a single thing in common, plus I don’t think his IQ is very high up there either.. perhaps I also loved the fuel of it all in some shape or form too, especially been at a low ebb having just left a 16 year relationship myself and didn’t know that I could not only fall for someone else so easily but to also have all the loving feelings to go with it.. I cant even listen to certain songs now as it twists my stomach with the pangs and thoughts of him..
I know I am strong and I know I will and actually have laugh about this again soon some day, but for now.. I’m kicking myself for being such a fool all along.. he wanted to come over to see me but for nobody else to be there, he doesn’t want to do anything out in public with me, not even a phone call or the wife will hear.. what part of that do I NOT get at all? I do get it but I still go back for more.. he then begins with his late night texts ALWAYS on either a Friday, Saturday or a sunday night but mostly fri or sat with hey there, I miss you, etc.. then if I’m feeling at a low I will reply.. I was doing quite well though and actually let four or five weeks go by but felt both insulted really and angry at him for continuing this garbage.. I will get your book on Fuel and start from there. and as for these merry go round conversations we keep on having as in I say but youre married he says I know babe, he says what can I do, I say I don’t know you have to decide, then nothing and the silent treatment for days on end…???
Any other advice for me would be invaluable to me at this stage of the game and any answers for above too..
for now, Anne..
Hello Anne, you are most welcome. Your state of mind and emotional state is entirely typical form such an entanglement with our kind, but you are in the best place to gain knowledge to assist you in understanding which will then allow you to move forward. So much will go round and round in your head. So often you will feel foolish, you will miss him, you will want him, you will get angry at how you have been treated. This is common and is engineered so you keep going back, so you remain emotional and thus you do not escape. It is called addiction. We make you addicted to us. The effective way to deal with this is to understand what you are dealing with and why it is happening (part of which includes understanding things about yourself too) and as your understanding grows, you will purge the addiction. You ought to read as much of you can of my work so you not only understand why, but you are reminded of why you need to get away and stay away. A daily dose of HG is a tart reminder of what we are capable of and what you need to avoid in the entanglement you experienced. Start with Fuel, Manipulated, Black Flag and Devil’s Toolkit, then move on to Escape and No Contact. Keep reading the books and the blog and keep asking questions here.
I wonder what happened to Anne.
HG, perhaps success was the wrong word to use? I just meant with your determination to always be in control and come out on top, I believe that this is something you would be able to do if you have your mind set on doing it! Part of it was that I was concerned for your safety also but didn’t want to sound like the empath I am so I went about it in a different way. Xxx
So, in a typical day how many drops of fuel do you receive on average and who from and by what means? Have you ever logged the frequency?
A graph of this would be so interesting plotting the primary and secondary and type/method.
Or is it just me being my usual geeky self?!?!
Hello Tray, if you read Fuel there is a worked example in there with reference to the relevant Proximity of Supply and Method of Delivery which are the key ingredients in determining the potency of the fuel as per the Fuel Index.
Already ordered and should land before the weekend. Can’t wait. Thanks.
Thank you.
Recently I encountered what looked like a mind game and what shocked me was the honesty of point blank calling their own actions as both “I was insinuating, and that was passive aggressive.” After I read back word for word what was told to me. I pointed out you need to say what you mean and mean what you say, and I can’t read your mind. The other comment that was said to me was “If you cared you would of (done what I think you should of done even though I was not clear at what it was I wanted you to do and also told you it was okay for you to do what you wanted) so it is clear to me you don’t care.”
Wow! I didn’t flinch, I mean it didn’t put me in a knot, it didn’t make me feel bad or that I had done anything wrong. That alone was HUGE for me, there once was a time, when this would have had me crying and begging for forgiveness or worrying and obsessing over it for days and trying to fix the other person’s disappointment, not anymore! I feel so strong and the moment passed and everything is fine. However, does this sound like Narcissistic behavior? Or just an insecure moment from the other person?
I dislike mind-games. But, I do like games, mind you.
HG, wouldn’t it be safer for you too start a with a day or two and build up from there? As much as I know you would like to accomplish this perhaps it is better in shorter amounts of time at first? Remember one step at a time! Xxx
More thank likely FM, but then I never do the vanilla do I?
I will be so worried about You if You decide to do so !!!!! And no phone for a week? OMG :((( I’ll make sure You have a waterfall of delicious fuel afterwards!
Thank you Maddie, that is most edifying to know.
No you do not!!!😉 You’ll succeed!! You always do!!! Xxx
Yes I do FM, thank you.
I would think the doctors would have to involved in the event you actually start to have a physical reaction such as an anxiety attack. I’m not sure if you are intending to hide your phone(s) but I would think if you are putting yourself in true solitary confinement for an experiment, someone else has to be involved just to observe for your well being whether it lasts for 2 days, 2 weeks, 2 months (really ambitious – lol).
I don’t look at something like this producing any kind of success or failure. It’s an experiment to determine what will play out with your behavior and the range of any emotions, the appearance of The Creature, etc. Will be interesting to hear the results.
As mentioned Clarece, the actual preparation has not been looked at since finding a slot is the first step but thank you for your observations.
Basically you don’t care who the fuel is from as long as it’s somebody . Have you ever preferred on persons type of fuel over the other ? Or as long as you are getting attention and emotional responses you don’t care who the girl is ?
That isn’t quite accurate Starr. We prefer the fuel to come from empaths, super empaths and co-dependents. We prefer our fuel to come from an intimate partner who is the primary source. We will take fuel from all available sources but we certainly have our preferences.
Yes, I regularly prefer one person’s fuel over that supplied by somebody else. This is applicable when comparing one primary source with a previous one as it is with comparing a secondary source with another secondary source.
I don’t care if the intimate partner has red hair, blonde hair or blue hair – it is the fuel that matters.
But inevitably and eventually you will get tired of your primary source and for some reason you will not want them anymore . Even if you had someone who stayed with you no matter what and never would leave you or break up with you no matter what you did would you still eventually discard that person if they lived with you and it was obvious they weren’t going to leave on their own ?
Only if they malfunctioned in the provision of fuel.
How does a person “malfunction” as to the point where you to discard of them and force them out of your life? If they do everything you say and ask and do not betray you or lie to you then it simply isn’t possible to find a reason to discard them . If I’m in a relationship with you and I’m not leaving you and I’m trying to help and support you no matter what then why would you discard of me ? What would it be about the fuel that goes bad ?
It is when the fuel no longer meets our needs, it becomes stale, it does not make us feel as powerful as it once did. In terms of why we discard this is one of the reasons but there are others and you may wish to read the article 5 Reasons Why We Discard
Right.. aka stirring the shit. One of N2 fsvorites…horrendous.
Eventually just got bored w/ his drama & nonsense.
My life is huge so had noo time for it — a BWOT (big waste of time) !
More fun’s out there, let these black holes of energy go & suck themselves into anti-matter 😉
Find someone juicy & normal; you can adjust to it.
& keep reading this cool blog, the more you understand, the better you get 😉 ♡
HG I would imgaine going with out your fuel would be like the co dependent going with out the narcissist wouldn’t it? Or maybe worse?
It would be similar but worse for me.
HG I have a question my Xnarc abused alcohol and any drug he could get for 40 + yrs. after the discard he moved out of state next door to his one son daughter in law and 3 granddaughters ages 1, 5 and 7. Because their mom didnt want drinking & drugs around them, he swears he quit cold turkey. Is this possible and will he stay clean. A mutual friends says he is bored
It is possible but highly unlikely. He will say one thing and do another.
Hello! I am still in the phase of trying to determine if my ex is actually a narc, or an ass-hole who grew tired of me and didn’t have the emotional courage to communicate that. We both are married, I am separated and going through a divorce; he’s married with marital problems, and we work together, closely. We started dating last August. I was new to the department and almost instantly started to live bomb me. I resisted for a while, and due to being lonely and vulnerable, I decided to give it a go, thinking we were both mature individuals who could manage an affair. I’m not proud of having an affair, but it was a choice I made because I knew my marriage was over from who I now know is a true narcassist in every meaning of the word. Anyway, we carried on until June of this year and he all of a sudden started lying, stopped calling and texting, stopped coming over, stopped giving me any attention at work, refusing to talk me about how I was feeling/thinking. Refusing tone clear about his distancing, but still affirming he wanted to be with, negative and rude facial expressions and body language, sprinkled with days he could not stop looking at me, talking to me or managing to interact with me and even touching me. He touched just yesterday. I went full no contact as best I could, as we work together, but through the corners of my eyes, I still see him looking at me when he passes my desk, or touching me on my neck and so forth when he walks by. There have also be office incidents where he shown no integrity as it relates to money and/or being a person of his word. I’m just wondering, is he an ass whole, or is he a narc. He has said things in the past to implicate he thinks I’m needy or over reacting. And when he gives the silent treatment, until now, it drove me crazy, causing me to break no contact many times. However, I’ve been strictly no contact, out side of only responding to him regarding work, but from time to time, he still manages to say something to me. Is me? Is he an asshole? Is he a narc? I know I may not have provided enough details, so ask me any clarifying questions if you’d like. I honestly want to hear it from a narc. Thank you
Hello BB and welcome on board. The behaviours that you describe certainly strongly suggest that he is a narcissist.
1. He was in a relationship already and sought a source outside of that marriage;
2. You have been with a narcissist before and therefore you remained at risk of another one ensnaring you;
3. You identified love-bombing during the seduction;
4. The sudden switch in his behaviour;
5. Devaluation manipulations manifested – lying, withdrawal of attention and time, silent treatments, sending mixed messages
6. Respite behaviour – the looking at you, touching you, talking with you
7. He has not respected your boundaries – touching etc
8/ He has not been dissuaded yet by No Contact – he keeps hoovering
There is plenty there that confirms he is a narcissist.
HG, thank you. You were able to break it down with the little information I provided. Trust me, there’s much more, but I appreciate the confirmation. I can now fully move on, knowing it’s not me, or validating his reasoning.
You are welcome BB and knowledge is indeed truly liberating.
All of these things ring true.
I have often said I would have preferred it if he’d hit me because I have such strong boundaries when it comes to physical abuse that he’d have only done that once. But the emotional abuse is so much harder because your mind starts to play tricks with you.
Mine would do something douchey, I’d try to ignore it, he’d keep being douchey until I finally snapped, and then he’d tell me I had problems with anger and/or aggression. And you end up questioning yourself…’well maybe I was out of line’ or ‘maybe I did over-react’ etc etc. Then you feel awful for being abusive to THEM. It happened every single time. Then when they come back you are so grateful to be given another chance…and it all starts over again.
Every. Single. Time.
I’m into my 3rd week of me maintaining no contact. And 3 months since the split. To cut a long story short I traded a 23 year narc psychopath for an 18 month NS (claiming he had depression, hence why it took me a while to spot the Narc signs). Anyhow, as a confident person who managed to leave the 23 year NP and come out on top (I planned my escape for years). I’m awaiting the next attempt at a Hoover from my 18 month NS. As I know his MO it’s likely he will msg saying he misses me or asking how I’m doing or my son etc. Now, as I’m stable and have a vengeful streak. What is the best reply that I can give? Am I best going for the no emotion ‘I know’ if he states he’s missing me or ‘I’m doing great thanks’ if he asks how I am? The second reply doesn’t sit well with me as it comes across as false, even though it’s the truth. I’m also pondering if I should play the game back. And I have read revenge, and no contact and more books on order. All amazing reads might I add and damn you for not writing these 10 years ago!!!!
Apologise btw for this msg being totally out of context for the above thread. But my inner urge for having a play with my ex NS’s head is kicking in.
Hello Tray,
First of all, thank you for reading my books, I appreciate that, I hope you can leave some reviews.
In terms of your scenario
1. The best approach would be not to reply. This maintains NC and it will infuriate him. He will try again and again.
2. Why have you decided against blocking him so he cannot contact you? I assume this is because you feel more in control, strong enough to resist the inevitable hoovers and because you want to strike back at him.
3. If it is as I suggest above and you want to reply, I suggest you do so as follows
HIM YOU
“I miss you” “I know”
“How are you?” “Strong.” (don’t thank him for asking)
“How is your son?” “Happy with me.”
“I want you back.” “I know”
“Can we talk” “No”
“I still love you.” “I know”
Don’t be tempted to say I don’t love you or I am better off without you etc as this will provide a dollop of fuel. By straight-batting his responses as above this will not provide fuel and will infuriate him.
Thank you for your reply. Will definitely use those responses. when the need arises.
I have bloked him but keep doing so after each Hoover attempt. So whatsapp was first and I was begged to reinstate him, which I didn’t. Text msgs were next, so he was then blocked. And I’m anticipating email will be his next choice of communication. Besides, I also like the challenge of annoying him. It amuses me.
Reviews of books – most certainly will.
Any chance they can all go to print instead of just being available on kindle?
And really intrigued by the prospect of you going ‘no fuel’. Will miss the blogs updates, but the conclusion from your ‘time out’ will be worth the wait.
I note your situation and that is fair enough. You do not have any expectation of the resumption of the relationship, curing him or gaining further understanding from him, therefore any contact is unlikely to have a detrimental impact on you.
Thank you for confirming that you will post reviews.
Manipulated and Exorcism will be available as paperbacks late this week. I am working on the others but by bit.
There will still be blog updates whilst(if) I am absent, I can schedule them you see. I may be without you all, but you will not be without HG, see how generous I am!?
So many more people are discovering this blog and your books. Although the majority of readers are anonymous, depending on the length of time they have spent here and depending how much of their stories and details they have shared, what if their Narc discovered this too and recognized “their situation” being written about and analyzed by you and other readers and tried to “smear” here with you and everyone? It would most likely cause a wounding and lashing out. Hypothetically, how would you respond if someone contacted you and said the reader you were interacting with is delusional and say, demanded all of their comments be removed?
They would get short shrift. I do not respond well to people making demands of me.
I think if I needed control and fuel and that desire controlled my life I would be exhausted and stressed out . It’s just to much work controlling your environment . I have no desire to control others or provoke hurt or tears . No matter how hard you try there will ALWAYS be things you cannot control and there is nothing you can do about it . Death and heartbreak and mishaps in everyday life will happen no matter what . There is no point in trying to fight it . Just let life run its course and enjoy what you can because the reality and the ultimate facts are we are all going to die one day and all we are going to leave is our legacy and love and at the end of our lives all that matters is the good we did in the world and the love we gave . Mr Tudor I want good things for you and most of all I want you to feel love . It is real I promise
That is most kind of you. Your sentiments concerning the way I operate are understandable but of course I am built differently to you, hence it does not stress me or exhaust me and naturally I am highly effective at what I do.
When you are around people who do not know the real you and who do not know you are abusive and really don’t care if they live or die , instead of getting tired and exhausted trying to hide your true colors and wearing the mask it’s the opposite ? In other words you must gain energy and adrenaline from being around others who do not know you are an extreme narcissists . Wow you and are so different I get tired and lose fuel if I’m around people and I’m forced to be sociable for to long and I gain fuel from alone time with books and movies or naps and food . That is what gives me fuel mostly though are naps and food 😁
I hate to be the odd ball but since I have been physically abused by a narcissist I am going to tell everyone here that I would rather eat all of the verbal and mental abuse than the physical. I can handle every nasty thing that has been thrown my way… that doesn’t bother me but when someone is beating the crap out of you because you said something wrong, because you can’t get back up or over power them to get up, because you have to listen to everyone ask you what happened and cover it up because you love that person…because you think everything is fine and then they do it again, and again and again until you are so tired of it you finally fight back… sorry I will take the verbal abuse any day. I know who I am, those words never meant anything to me but the physical part… NO. Unless I am getting bruised up in the bedroom for pleasure, physical abuse is hurts more. It hurts your heart, it boggles your mind.
Hi DC,
It’s nice to see you are back. I am sorry to hear about the physical abuse that you suffered. I would have not survived any physical abuse. That would have destroyed me. The mental abuse was enough and then having to deal with the PTSD and all of the aftermaths from the relationship is overwhelming. Thank goodness I didn’t have the physical to go with it.
Glad you got that restraining order!!! Good for u❤️❤️❤️
Thank you Snow White :), I am not saying that verbal abuse isn’t worse than physical… I think we are all different in what we can handle… but I’ll take verbal abuse any day…and I am a physically tough cookie! Ha ha ha..
Hi DC, I understand. I’m sure it’s different for everyone. I am not physically strong. Lol…And you are most certainly a tough cookie. Lol
And a survivor!!! 🍎❤️
Have a good night!
Hi DC .
I’m very sad to read about your physical abuse , you’re certainly not an odd ball.
Ex N was physically abusive with me too but was emotionally abusive also . I agree when you say you take the abuse again & again until you finally fight back . I swear I’d never laid a finger on anyone before that . but he just carried on, towards the end I was hitting him back not that it had any effect other than to get me another punch .. but I didn’t care anymore.
As for the emotional abuse… I’m slowly coming to terms with it but for me it’s had a greater impact than the physical . I’m by no means saying it’s one or the other, but in my case I’m finding it harder to recover from .
Take care DC . xx
Hi So Sad, it’s so crazy how we cope with everything in life…even narcissists are who they are because of the way they have handled their situation AND theirs stems from youth. 🙁
I understand verbal abuse is difficult for many…. At one point it was difficult for me too but I’ve come out on top this time. 🙂
Hello again DC .
Thanks for replying .
It’s nice to read you’ve come out on top this time !!! 🙂
My physical abuse didn’t result in any major injuries as in life changing . I consider myself very lucky there but some aren’t so lucky . So when you said you’d swap it I get that completely .
More often than not it was knowing it was about to happen . There was always a pattern .
No matter how I tried to calm the situation down he throw the punches anyway ..
. Did you find that DC ?
So glad your out of it all now .
So Sad x
Thank goodness mine did not have any life threatening injuries either…although how long do you stay before they do? Over time they became less frequent and even less intense but in the end… it started picking up again. In the end I was already tired of it and I fought back.
I think that there is definitely a pattern but not a typical pattern. Mine would tell me that he had a dream I was cheating on him and it would put him in a sour mood as soon as he woke BUT I saw it in his actions. He would be mad at me and not say why, it wasn’t even my fault! I usually allowed him to have his little fit, silent treatment, whatever anger came from it was fine but the moment I pushed back he’d get violent so I learned not to, in fact that is how I learned to get over the nonsense that spewed from his lips. I heard the nonsense more than anything else….it becomes old repetitive, mundane crap that becomes meaningless.
HG, if you took yourself away from all fuel to further you knowledge wouldn’t that mean you would have to stop the blog also???
For a week, yes.
A whole week???????
That sounds yucky HG. I don’t approve even though I know it doesn’t matter if I do or not.
I promise I will maintain my high standard of hygiene.
Oh. Well in that case.
HG,
Don’t know if you’ll see this, but how did the no fuel experiment go?? What happened?? Immensely curious to know, pretty please???
😱😱 no reading for a week
Worry not Nikita, I shall leave you with plenty to read when I do do this so I wont be leaving you with nothing to do.
COOL HG
You will let us know when this would take place wouldn’t you??
Yes.
i think the main reason is control isnt it?
That and fuel Nikita.
yes .. how could I forget fuel!! i think these two make up for 70% of the pie and the othef 30% distributed maybe equally amont the other reasons.
Also I want to make sure I completely understand the definition of fuel . Basically it is emotions and reactions from others that you must be the cause of not only positive but negative as well .
It is the emotional response of others based on something we say or do or our presence and can be negative and positive.
HG I have a question for u. What do u think the outcome would be if a narc was given truth serum? Like Versed used for a colonoscopy procedure. Im curious of ur answer?
There are no reliable truth serums C2. Nor are there any reliable studies concerning their use.
Even if they were they would not be able to overcome the fact that what you regard as a lie is our truth (to us) and therefore because of the altered perspective we would maintain the artifice.
Thank u for ur input
You are welcome.
Should have asked this in Lying but do you guys realize your lies or actually convince yourself that they are truth? Felt like so many times DN actually convinced himself that what he was saying was the truth even when I was 100% false. Was he trying to manipulate me or himself?
Hello Alex,
Lessers believe their own lies. Mid-Range say them often enough that they do as well. The Greater knows some are lies, but much of it turns on perspective.
He will have been manipulating you.
I am reading your posts one after another and the question, which is out of the context of this post, arose: have you ever wondered what would happen to you if you isolated yourself from your victims, people and the world for a year or even more?
Hello J,
I intend to, as part of my ongoing work, to isolate myself from all sources of fuel and then write about it. I have not decided when this will happen, but it will. If it was to happen for a year, I doubt the outcome would be pretty.
Really though what is the worst that can happen ? You will not perish you will not hurt . Maybe this is what you need in order to have a wonderful and beautiful fulfilling life .
Hmmmm I liked that HG but I’m but I’m not actually sure I do like that ? Well not from a personal perspective anyway.
What will we all do without your daily posts ?
You will still get the daily posts. It won’t be happening in the near future, my diary is too full.
Don’t do it too soon hey !
The world will benefit greatly from your experiences ..
Why does the thought of that put my stomach in the same knots my DN used to? The ultimate discard….so many at once and I bet without warning!
You are goimg to isolate yourself? How are you preparing yourself for that? Who will be observing to see that you are okay? If it heals you, that is only good.
It is a proposal only at present 1jaded. It is very much dependent on whether I can spare the time to do so. I believe it will make for a fascinating experience (albeit not pleasant for me) in order to convey this to my readers as part of everybody’s understanding, but it is very much dependent on whether I can find a slot to do it. It may have to be just a couple of days instead, we shall see. In terms of preparation, once I have allocated the time (and it will be some way in the future so I will have plenty of preparatory time available) I will turn my mind to the preparation required, arrangements to “get out” if you will, the input of the good doctors etc.
Wow HG . I seriously doubt if it’ll be pretty even it’s a week.
I mean, to withdraw yourself from the very thing that in essence you need as much as the air you breath must take a heck of a lot of courage, akin to a heroin addict going cold turkey I would imagine. ..
Can I ask you a question please ? If you don’t manage a week , will you admit it here ? I know your brutally honest but neither do you like to be seen as a failure, not that any of us would judge you as that because we understand you need fuel to survive.
Personally I don’t think you’ll last but I hope you do . I admire you for it though ..
No I do not think it will be pretty either. It is easy enough for me to say it at this juncture as there is yet to be a time slot identified for when this might take place, it may be that I have to do it for a shorter time period.
If I intended to do a week but ended up doing less yes I would admit it for the purposes of the disclosure I already provide here. I would also not regard it as a failure since by even embracing the concept I would regard it as a success. Thank you for your kind comment.
You’re welcome HG .
And thanks again for your honesty as always .
I’m not aware of anything published by a narc who’s actually chosen to do what you intend to do at some point in the future ..
All I can say is that part of me wants to tell you not to ( opps there goes the empath ) because i know the impact it will have on you & yet your idea is beyond brilliant .
Not sure if that’s good or bad . All I would say is ..
Make sure you have plenty of safe guards in place as I know you will .
So Sad .
Thank you So Sad, your empathic nature washes over me.
What’s the difference then between A Greater and a Pschycopath?
A Greater is a narcissistic sociopath. The NS knows the difference between right and wrong but does not care. A Psychopath does not know the difference.
I wonder though are you tempted to physically harm your victims ? If you knew for a fact you would not face any repercussions to physical abuse would you be able to punch one of your girlfriends in the face without feeling remorse ? Maybe the fact you have not physically abused someone shows that you have suppressed humanity and empathy but your conscious being will not allow it to manifest . Maybe there is a good person within you you just have to breathe and let go of your need to control and harm . Let the people who love you love you and enjoy their company and cherish the love . In the long run I do believe you will be happier and have a more fulfilling life . You have people who care about your well being and that is something to be thankful for .
Yes of course I could do that. Whether I would is a different matter. I am physically capable, very much so, but I regard using physical violence as beneath me. If I had to, to ensure my aims are met I would use it, but I prefer to utilise my other skill sets as I regard them as having more finesse about them and more in keeping with the level of functioning and sophistication that I possess.
My ex would tell me he has bad thoughts about hurting people who stand in his way . He wanted to be a dictator exterminate “inferiors” whenever he was angry or upset he would turn to sex to alleviate the frustration . I’m still attempting to determine if he was a sociopath or a psychopath . I was also told he was sitting next to a girl at a friends house and he literally put his finger into her anus and when she told him to stop he kept doing it . I wouldn’t think a sociopath would do anything that bizarre so maybe a psychopath would and not fully understand how socially bizarre and rude and weird that is . I don’t know his exact diagnosis I’m still trying to figure it out .
Do you think people in a physically and emotionally abusive relationship find it easier to break free ?
Only because it is more obvious to them and their loved ones that the relationship is very wrong.
Or do you think as long as emotional abuse is entwined with the physical it is equally as hard for someone to leave if it’s solely emotional ?
I think it depends on the extent of those types of abuse and also the nature of the victim, some people can endure more than others, some people are more isolated, some people have other people looking out for them. There are a number of variables and I think ultimately they are all difficult to deal with.
Thsbks HG. What do you think makes a person able to endure more than others ?
I know I’ve said it before, my experience with the N was short lived, I could not last. I did not know what he was at the time nor my sister.
But having suffered years of cruelty at the hands of my mother and my sister and gone NC about 6 years prior with my sister and immediately going from no self confidence to brimming with it. I knew that somehow, he made me feel the same way she did and that I had to go NC. I did his very quickly. No way could I stand to be treated like this.
I admire and have utmost respect and sympathy for anyone who can withstand such cruel treatment for any kength of time. But pity them also as they are worth so much more than that.
With the MN, I always wanted the Hoover, I wanted that validation as you say HG.
But with my sister, I never wanted a single Hoover and each time I change my number. She manages to get it again. And I truly despise any Hoover attempt from her at all it’s been over 8 years now and not once have I responded or regretted my decision. I rarely unless prompted to, think about her. It’s the best thing I ever did.
I can’t even remember what my question was now ?
Usually a co-dependent and a super empath can endure more, for different reasons as explained in Chained and in Super Empath.
You certainly have become attuned to addressing the narcissists that you encounter Alexis. I may be mistaken but I think this is the first time that you have mentioned your sister?
Thanks HG. Yes, I do remember in chained now. Thanks for the reminder. Ooh I must have missed super empath. I need to purchase that one.
I have become attuned. Before though it was based on how it made me feel emotionally. Now though, from all your teachings anything I do is completely without emotion when I suspect someone has a PD. I’m not trying to feel no emotion for them, I just don’t and can’t anymore ? It’s really strange. Almost like I can completely switch it on and off as I please. I think perhaps this is because you explain things so well HG. So when people behave a certain way I completely understand why. It’s no longer a mystery. Therefore it has no affect on me.
I’ve never mentioned my sister in great detail, just the odd comment here and there. She’s a mid range N. My mother a borderline waif. Obviously I have to diagnose everyone now hahaha
Super Empath is an article, I ought to have been clearer.
Yes you do have to diagnose everybody but that is how you survive once you have been entangled the once.
Absolutely spot on. Every single word. It is exactly why and how he tortured me the way he did. So obvious now that I am away from his influence and my head is on straight. In a desperate attempt to regain control, my ex added high doses of prescription opiates & amphetamines (for both of us), along with major sleep deprivation to his tactics. Ultimately, these tactics brought the extremity of his disorder to light and he eventually lost all control, however, Not before instilling complete insanity and utter hell into our lives (and allowing him to gather evidence against me b/c I think he knew deep down that I would escape him). It eventually led to my escape, 2+ years ago. I have come out the other side and have begun to rebuild, however, He is still torturing me with a highly contested divorce and custody battle…I filed 2 years ago, have spent $50k, and the divorce is still not finalized. Can you speak to this level of game playing and punishment? He is obsessed with punishing me (and my family) for escaping him.
I can and the full extent of my manipulations and machinations will appear in Dark Cupid as well as The Asylum of the Grotesque.
Are these posts or books? When can I read them?
Both books OS which are currently being written.
Well I’m proud what I went through snd I won’t here like other vent or confess but it made me stronger and I found myself finally by understanding narcissists thanks to You. Because NEVER EVER would that happen without You dear G. !! Apart from few things greater narcissists do and I haven’t experience throughout my life I can give myself a medal. I’m not scared anymore despite knowing how powerful and clever You are. Why I’m not scared? I lived in fear for so long that I think I don’t feel it anymore. Leftovers are few PTSD traces…
Seems to me like you have seized the power Maddie.
I’d feel as I seized the peace within myself. But thank You 🙂 peace is powerfull too 🙂 and makes me feel free living without fear knowing what’s out there and not needing to avoid it or to be afraid of.