Mother Knows Best
“I love you.”
“I have heard this is a good one for getting a reaction from you because this is what you always want to hear.”
“You won’t ever amount to anything.”
“Not while I am interfering in every facet of your life, controlling you and making your childhood and your adult life one long battle.”
“I just thought I would call you and see how you are.”
“You do not give me enough fuel. You are an ungrateful son/daughter and I regret the day I gave birth to you.”
“It is my birthday next week and I just wondered if you had anything planned.”
“I expect something lavish and spectacular so I can be centre stage. If you haven’t planned such an event you are cruel and uncaring, just as I always thought.”
“I am proud of you.”
“For once you have done something I approve of and now I can take all the credit for it.”
“You were quite a challenge when you were younger.”
“I thought you might resist my cold-hearted manipulation of you, but I broke you in the end.”
“I suppose you have heard the sad news about your Uncle Paul dying?”
“A death! A funeral! Such a wonderful stage for me to dominate and all those relatives to suck fuel from.”
“I am trying to help you,you know?”
“I am trying to control you, stop resisting me.”
“I have done so much for you. All I want is some thanks.”
“I think I have done so much for you. I need some fuel.”
“It was a joke. You take yourself so seriously.”
“It was not a joke. Damn you for seeing through it. I need to back track quickly so I am not accountable.”
“You were an accident.”
“Go on cry and make me feel powerful.”
“Your father and I have discussed this as we think…”
“I have decided….”
“Your father agrees with me so there is no point running to him.”
“Your father knows better than to contradict me.”
“I had such high hopes for you.”
“You aren’t doing what I want.”
“That never happened.”
“It did but you are not allowed to hold that against me.”
“We never thought you would leave home.”
“You were not meant to move out of my control.”
“We hardly ever see you these days.”
“You should be providing me with fuel more often.”
“You weren’t like this when you were little.”
“You were so much easier to control back then.”
“I don’t love you.”
“I don’t love you. I never have.”
99 thoughts on “Mother Knows Best”
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hg you once mentioned having siblings. what were the dynamics? were you a golden child? scapegoat? and what roles did your siblings play?
I was vaunted as one that could become the golden child if I did as commanded. I have an elder half brother, a younger brother and a younger sister. Their roles are mentioned throughout my work.
my momster i figured out awhile back. but my older goldenboy older brother leaves me stumped. this prick tormented me daily. i hated going home after school unless dad was home. parents divorced, brother shipped off to the marines after an epic rage. he demolished my room after finding out i had a boyfriend.
brother comes out of the marines, finds fkn jesus! and has amnesia, can’t recall the past. we don’t go there. thirty years as a missionary, and is now postmaster after a like number of years with usps. never married, no kids. a gf from time to time but… anyway you see my question coming…
was he? or the momsters lieutenant?. he had to be sent away summers so my younger sister and i could breathe. i felt his evil.
so what happened? why such a great thoughtful brother now? who is he? what changed and why?
That is what I thought you had said in the past.
I think it’s a very daunting proposition for you to consider being empathetic for a day. When your response on what that would mean is “The compulsion to help, the exposure to harm, the vulnerability, the being taken advantage of…” you have such a negative connotation attached to being empathetic. But it’s now wonder when you had experiences like not being allowed to cry from the searing pain of burning your hand on the bbq grill.
It’s almost like you need to be asked “how would you like to not feel jealousy or hatred for a day”? Pressing you to feel empathy is like asking a new runner to try an Iron Man Race.
Have the doctors ever mentioned EMDR therapy with you? It would be a form to help you process traumatic memories thereby facilitating their place in your past and what you’ve overcome so now your body and brain can live more in the moment without feeling so on guard. So threatened that people always want to tear you down. Your mother held that position and did it with power over you as a child. But that was her and all that garbage needs to stay with her.
Hello Clarece, yes you are correct, I do associate empathetic responses in a negative fashion because I have seen what happens to those who exhibit such responses. Your analogy about the Iron Man race is a good one.
EMDR has been mentioned but the good doctors are of the view that CBT will be just as effective and I know that Dr O is sceptical about EMDR’s application generally and specifically with regard to me.
That is interesting. I have encountered two camps on EMDR. It is praised in the trauma reprocessing community (though, I do not think there is research out there with its use specifically with narcissists yet). There are other camps of cognitive behaviorists that feel it is still a bit “hokey”, so I have seen. It is all related to schooling and how one conceptualizes narcissism.
Now, is your treatment just CBT or CBT in combination with other orientations, such as psychoanalysis?
CBT with psychoanalysis Indy.
I would imagine EMDR is a bit like acupuncture in that you have to filter out the quacks from the pro’s who truly know how to administer it for it to be successful.
That is for sure, MLA! And, there are psychologists, including young ones that still are more traditional in approach. EMDR has research behind it, though I think it will still take more time. The mind-body connection, though so well documented and supported in the trauma side of psych still hasn’t reached everyone’s support. It is getting more mainstream though. Just like mindfulness and aspects of yoga have been embraced in the therapy community.
The other side of this is how does one conceptualize narcissism, as conceptualization guides treatment. If one conceptualizes it as a result of trauma, then it would be treated as such. If one thinks of it as hard wired behavioral patterns that cemented over time developmentally to cope with an aversive environment, then they may attack it from that angle…or if they are attachment focused, they would treat with this in mind. there are many different approaches depending on the orientation of the docs as well as their conceptualization of narcissism and what the literature supports (if they are good).
And, unfortunately, there is always the consideration of money in treatment planning as well. Most people cannot afford long term psychoanalysis (which appears to be part of HG’s therapy) and insurance usually does not cover it in the US. Since it appears HG does not have this limitation, they can use such techniques. I really cannot wait to see the book HG publishes on the Good Docs.
I completely see all of those very valid points. It’s tricky when even in it’s own field, ways to treat trauma and particularly different forms of PTSD seems to have to go through a lot more hurdles to get funded and researched.
And then…you forgot this one…patient participation and willingness towards accepting treatment for trauma.
I’m sure our favorite HG can be a bit stubborn as a patient. Lol
I am not stubborn, I just do not allow myself to be conquered.
Stalwart
hahaha….
Very true, MLA on the willingness piece. That is where a DBT therapist comes in…lol
BE, thank goodness! I must say, your pic is pretty sexy. Still, I need all my blood. LOL
Envisions those fangs eviscerating MatriNarc!
Licking my lips….aw come on, Indy. Just one bite? I promise….just one.
I see those perfectly manicured red fingernails crossed behind your back **blows kisses***
And, I wonder…..is that what you essentially did? You turned it off (not intentionally, necessarily) when the emotions got too abusive from MatriNarc…perhaps narcissism is a maladaptive way to turn it off. Now, it is just a matter of turning it back on…ever so slightly….like letting a faucet drip a little water in…? I don’t know.
This infuriated me.
That means someone is going to get it.
Filing my fangs as we speak.
Marvellous
BE, was it my suggestion of trying to feel empathy that infuriated you?
Indy – No. I thought it was cute.
What infuriates me is MatriNarc.
HG, you wouldn’t want the experience of being an empath? Why not? Not even for a minute and then turn it off? I sometimes envy those that have reduced empathy to a degree…other times, I am grateful I have this capacity.
But that is just it Indy, you cannot turn it off.
Say you had a magic wand, Sir Tudor! I dub you Wizard. Now, would you want to feel it?
You shall have to forgive me Indy but your comment seemed laden with innuendo.
So, can I feel it and then get rid of it as soon as I wanted to, for the purposes of this hypothetical scenario?
Hahahahha…so not intentional either. Shocking huh?
Yes, you have total power (NO INUENDO!)
In the interests of continuing my learning experience I would try it on condition I can get rid of it.
HG, How would you imagine what it would be like? Being an empath for say a day?
Hellish I should imagine.
Nope . It’s awesome. I think being what you are would be hell because I would see all these people around me feeling joy and happiness and love but I wouldn’t know what that is so it would be frustrating I would imagine .
I know what it is, Starr, I recognise it, but it just is not felt by me. I have no issue with others experiencing joy and happiness and love so long as it is directed at me.
But you see us as appliances which is hard to imagine because a microwave or a car cannot feel love or cry and people can therefore you should no we aren’t objects . We see . We feel. We touch and we cry . Those other things like TVs do not
I am hearing very black/white thinking here. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. When we move away from extreme thinking into the dialectic we find less emotional intensity into a certain view/perspective. I would think that being less empathic would be freeing in certain situations, particularly in business or as a lawyer or a scientist. However, having full access to emotions inform us of many things and motivate us to act many times as well. The passion behind a cause, the nonverbal knowing that is akin to wisdom comes from blending logic with emotion. The deep love without expectation(rare to find). The deep joy without craving for more(nonaddictive). The freedom of not needing to be recognized (I would love that freedom, I still have achievement issues, the narcissist in me). It’s all about balance.
We have a lot to learn and appreciate from one another. Is being empathic hellish AT TIMES? indeed very much so. Same for a narcicist, AT TIMES. No one in this life escapes pain and many lives on both sides also include deep suffering.
Would you care to elaborate on hellish?
The compulsion to help, the exposure to harm, the vulnerability, the being taken advantage of.
Makes sense, if your symptoms of narcissism are a result from childhood vulnerability and abuse.
So, you wear your armor and block out the vulnerability at the expense of genuine connection?
What you describe here, “the compulsion to help” is actually not a healthy disposition and would not be the goal of therapy. This is codependent.
We are all vulnerable, some more so than others.
You can still love and feel for others without being taken advantage of and run of. You can help people and still put your foot down .
You can be empathic and still disassociate because you are sociopathic. Take out the narcissism. Which frees up time and anxiety of fuel gathering. Gain empathetic traits, use sociopathic traits when necessary. Feel and not feel when necessary. Done. No taking advantage of you because u are sociopathic. As an empath you control how much you give. You already do this. You are smart enough to see if someone was trying to get over on you. You switch the emotions on and off like you already do. Just add more emotions to choose from. If you feel threatened go sociopathic.
Where is the flaw in this suggestion?
Indy,
You can turn it off to an extent if you practice. Your thoughts and feelings are just that. Only thoughts and feelings until you give them meaning. Acknowledge them gently send them away. Noting meditation will get you really good at this.
Hi Punisher,
Yes, I agree and have practiced this. Distraction skills, distress tolerance skills and mindfulness can allow someone to practice slowing, reducing and taking a temporary break from thoughts and emotions. Plus, one can also do this in an unhealthy manner too, if excessively relied on, such as dissociation, drugs, etc. Thank you for that reminder.
I think you were commenting on HGs comment if not being able to “turn it off.” And, your point is an excellent one in regards to this discussion 😊. Wish I had said it. I was more stuck in the magic wand 😂
Indy, that is indeed what I was responding to and that you thought being less empathic would be freeing (it so is). Thank you and you’re welcome 😊Also, I dug the magic wand inuendo.
This one broke my heart.
I know you have your steel walls and perhaps you do not register this pain anymore consciously, and I am sorry you experienced this and experience what appear to be symptoms of having gone through this. No child should ever feel this and question every message and shrink anytime someone wants to hold you or your hand. And, it is understandable why you do.
Wouldn’t that depend on whether you were born with empathic abilities or not? If you were then she could have broken you at a very young age. If you weren’t then she has not broken you.
HG, does your reply imply “your kind” CAN be repaired i.e. fixed?
Some believe that to be the case.
I must be a complete full for believing in such a possibility, after everything I went and am still going through. Another sin of mine, I guess.
Me Tudor do you feel as though your mother broke you ?
No.
She tried.
She failed.
What would your definition of broken be ?
Beyond function or repair.
So you don’t believe that because you cannot live without cheating or gathering fuel from others makes you broken ?
I am not broken.
Do you wish to feel like an empath one day?
No thank you.
Why ?
Have you seen what happens to them?
Oh I have seen and felt but through all of the hurt and pain we also loved . We loved and lived . The love was worth the pain . Better to have loved and lost than not love at all . You don’t love you never truly live you only exist . I promise you would be a lot happier if you felt like an empath and fell in REAL love . You should give our life and values and morals a try 🙂
One could never be in any doubt about your empathic status Starr.
Ok so you should get into a relationship and not cheat or abuse . You can do it if you really try .
Truly heartbreaking. This kind of story is exactly what makes me terribly sad and empathize with the man I loved. I was almost destroyed by him, I am struggling with depression, I shall never be the same, BUT
I cannot help thinking – “What made him that way? Who hurt him so deeply? How? Has the divorce of his parents when he was ten had such a devastating impact on him?. Maybe I could have helped him..”
I have no wish to expose him, I have no desire to retaliate, I just wish I could help him, so he stops hurting himself and others.
Try having that from your mother, father and brother on your own in an exclusively narc family, narc girlfriends at school and five broken hearts before you realise what is going on. I’ve never had an empath close to me.
I had this mother too, arrogant, conditional and self-serving. She left me for dead when I needed help and then told the world I had refused her offer of help.
She invites me back for more abuse. I haven’t seen her in five years. I’ll never be ok.
What doesn’t kill us makes us stronger, Right?
I have read this on another website, almost identical.
Where Violet? Unless it has been reblogged I may need to unleash the attacks dogs.
Hmm the woman that raised me, she could be related to you.
Now to more intoxicating thoughts to drift off to sleep with…….
How about Father knows best HG?
He probably did Leilani, but he kept what he knew as thoughts.
I’m sorry you had go to through this 🙁
1) You recognize and accept the problem within oneself. Acknowledge.
2) You recognize the source of the problem and eliminate it. Do not continue to give your power to further the negative losses for yourself.
3) Make a choice, there is no other way.
It is very logical and much work and determination. You are your own master. Be good to yourself and make a change in your actions. Always doing battle within yourself is taxing.
You have nothing to lose.
*sees red* livid.
Very good 1jaded.
HG,
Are we half brother and sister?
I never do anything by half.
Haughty Guy,
I think we share the same mother. Or maybe they were roomates at narc college.
Special roommates.
Mother-in-law knows best. Ugh! The only one more narcissistic than my x is his mother. He insisted we have dinner with his parents 3 or 4 times a week. It was so embarrassing, she treated the waiters and waitresses like crap. She sent food back over and over because it wasn’t perfect, or she changed her mind about what she wanted, or it was to spicy. If a waiter was in eye sight she was yelling because she constantly needed something. Well now my x can eat with her all the time. Yay for him!! And me.
The relationship your ex shares with his mother sounds much like the one my mother shared with her late father…you’re lucky to have gotten away from those two.
I was married to him for four years then I had a five minute argument with his mother and I was discarded. The divorce won’t be finalized till December and he still calls here and there but I am not going back. He is also a pastor. None of his followers know about his violent side. I dressed to hide bruises. I’m keeping my chin up and I’m very thankful to be out. And so glad I found this blog.
Well of course a pastor would want his congregation in the dark about his violent temper (it’s bad for business).
Oh yes…”your father and I have…” bitch, everyone knows my father hasn’t thought/decided/said/done any goddamn thing. He’s just there, YOU decide, YOU say, YOU do and he lets you because after 45 years of wedded whatever the hell you have, the man has given up.
Up until very recently, I thought this upbringing was normal.
You are not the only one WU.
Interesting… I wonder about my father now. He always said things to me like.. ” You better marry a doctor or a lawyer C because you will never amount to much.” Well… I am the one who has my shit together out of everyone in my family.
Terrible list for anyone to hear. It’s sad that someone thinks like this. Is this from your personal experience?
How pleasantly put .. the grins when something goes wrong for you and the I love you right but here’s some really bad advice or listen to more about me me me .. then you go and marry someone that hurts you just as bad saying extremely hurtful things they both get on aswell the son she never had.. his most loyal sidekick and companion .. my heart is breaking and no one to turn to
Your stories are a beacon enlightening and painful .. sometimes I can digest what your saying others I feel numb
Thank you C.
How funny Mr. Tudor, we were born in different counteries, different cultures, different continents, yet we speak the same language.
Are you watching the game?
I am always watching Love. Watching, waiting, anticipating.
Who do you want to win?
Me.
You always do.
I think you stated once you were not a fan of Manchester?
I think Manchester is a wonderful city.
LOL I should know better than going in a round-about way to get a real answer from you. I wont push further. I hope you enjoy ‘all’ the games and have a wonderful Sunday.
I am obliged Love.
Also the same as me Love. This post is incredible HG. I did the same. Recently while talking with my sister she reasoned that we “feel other’s vibe” so powerfully is because we had to pick up on our dad’s everyday to know if we needed to find somewhere else to hide out. He drank way too much.
oh my….my heart aches for You and those one suffering from parent like that