The Narcissistic Truths No. 13
54 thoughts on “The Narcissistic Truths No. 13”
Vent Your Spleen! (Please see the Rules in Formal Info)
This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.
This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.
Wow. That image is really dramatic. It is instant ‘understanding’. A picture speaks a thousand words without actually saying anything apart from the meme “This is how it started”.
A Lot of ppl havepain in the world, and more will, since deprivation and cruelty increase in abundance. Just think of the children in |Africa and the traficqued girls. Of course, they may not have the emotional sophistication and intelligence to realize that one day in Geneve ppl signed the rights of the children and these include protection from all kinds of abuse. But were saved, comparatively and randomly, surely. We could have been one of those children soldiers or prostitutes. It’ so hard not to think of one, but there s got to be a way not to whine so much and do something to practice empathy, even if its fake. The lack of empathy is abenefit that went awry. Anyway good luck to everyone in this journey to become whole before the end. No, I don’t like monsters. I was dark phobic as a child.
That picture is how I see children now. The never ending need. Clutching and grabbing at me, but I have no idea how to quell them. My mother was consumed with the needs of her N ( my stepfather from age 5), so I stood in her place for the orher children. I provided necessities in their care ( feeding, clothing), but recall no real affection or emotion except that I must keep them safe and protect them. I made sure i would have no children of my own. I don’t regret it. Even now around children I see them as in that picture-wanting whatever is left of me. To consume me. I remember thinking at a very young age: you see what hes like. Stop having his babies you stupid cow! I hated him but I saw his power. It was hard to ignore. Thus the years of confusion to follow. I have some empathy but it is often interrupted by thoughts of: people can only treat you bad if you allow. I choose when I allow it.
Children are innocent and are the only good thing in this planet, along with nature, wild nature. But I decided not to have them myself. I have taught first grade and it was the best time of my life, but I cant give a child an unfair childhood, as I was given.
NA,
Yes! My children who have Narcisisst Fathers are like this. They even recognize it. I try to arrange atleast one day a week were each child is alone with me, not even with their other sibling, so that they can get one on one time with me. It can be difficult to arrange, and it is draining, but I feel like they need real one to one time with someone who cares about them. With my 10 year old son, he always wants me to cook for him. I dont always like that. I feel like its setting him up to think women cook, but he has become obsessed with it because his midranger father does a lot of food deprevation with him. So I do it, but try to make it a healthy meal and keep the food rewards in moderation because he will yell at his sister over something like her taking one of his yogurts from the fridge. There is always plenty of food in the house, but the says my house is the only place he can relax and eat. I can feel the intensity sometimes.
On my daughters day with me, she needs lots of validations, positive words “you are smart” “I will always be here for you” “when you are away, I am always preparing for your return to me”, and I make a lot of eye contact with her. She is extremely independent, but still sucks on a pacifier at the age of 4, because that’s how she self soothes with her narc father.
Anm
You’re a great mom. Spending time individually and affirming that you see and hear them is what is absolutely needed. In my home you were just a never ending legal responsibility, so that helped to form the view that I was expressing in that comment (although I will say it has softened a bit over time). I was so busy running around tending to need that I was not able to actually be a child, see any enjoyment in having children, and did not form proper sibling bonds. They still see me as an authoritative figure and not how I understand a sister is viewed in other families. After my second brother was born, and not having the proper words to convey that I was feeling neglected, I said to my mother that I loved him but sometimes wished he hadn’t been born. Before I could clumsily add because it meant I never got time with her she angrily told me I was hateful and awful for saying such a thing. She didn’t spend any time with me so she never understood what I was trying to get across. People often cite staying together for the children or feel guilt over them only living with one. I can tell you that having one good parent or even someone outside of your family that validates your worth by hearing and seeing you means the world. The rest is just bonus. Food deprivation and control or shaming is horrible and my brother who was a chubby kid endured that. He obsessed about food. Became a chef so that was good, but is at a life threatening weight and has two small children. I think about that a lot.
NA, thank you for responding. Sorry for my delay gratitude. I have been busy, but i so wanted to get back with you on this. How do you feel about children of narcissist attending therapy? You sound like a self made successful person. When I say successful, I mean you seem resilient, you are emotionally and financially stable, and you didn’t go on to marry or reproduce with narcissist, even though you were raised by them. For this I applaud you, and is everything I wish for my children. I have two different approaches I am doing with my children regarding their narcissist fathers. Do you think if your brother had therapy as a child, it would have helped the food issues? Son’s father actually runs an upscale restaurant as well, and is a midrange narcissist. My son calls him Gorden Ramsey because that is his personality and the intensity of his perfectionism, especially around food and appearances. His fathers family does bring some positive aspects to my sons life, even though his father can be a negative nancy. I have been thinking about putting my son into therapy, but i wonder if that will even help since his father is a narcissist who may not be supportive of therapy anyways.
Hi Anm
I have no experience with therapy, but will offer a few thoughts of my younger self:
As a child I had a very deep distrust of most people, and especially adults. I witnessed that adults didn’t keep your secrets. Even kind and well meaning adults felt that they must divulge what they saw or were told believing there to be a misunderstanding or feeling they could appeal to the abuser on your behalf and effect some change. This would only be trouble for you as the abuser would talk their way out of it (“it didn’t happen like that” or “she embellishes stories for attention”) and you would be threatened or punished for your “betrayal”. Things were not to be discussed, so I would have instantly viewed the therapist as an adult “do gooder” and offered nothing (at the very least in the beginning). I would however have been interested to see what this person had to say (let them do all the talking) and to have validated what I was experiencing and feeling was not normal. That paired with being acknowledged as a person with feelings and not “just a kid” would have helped even though I might not offer up much (if anything). I know this because there were teachers that showed me this and it had a positive effect.
I’m giving you a worse case scenario of course. A lot of children may not have this level of distrust and it could be helpful. I’m just saying there could be resistance initially and don’t expect much right away. Give it time and tell them they can participate as much or as little as they want. That it’s their time and they do not have to share what is discussed there with anyone. It’s tricky because children are taught to divulge everything to their parents and possibly grandparents, so if they (in your case your son) is questioned by his father or father’s family (which is likely if they know he goes to therapy), he may feel conflicted even though you don’t question him in your home about the sessions. That has to be handled delicately and I’m sure HG can offer some help there in how best to address if that occurs (questioning of the child by narcissist parent).
I believe that being offered the opportunity (never mind the time away from my environment ) would have given me some sense of control, even if it was only validation by another adult that I was considered to have input and authorization to share or not. Recognized choice.
Thank you so much, Narc Angel. That information answers my questions, and a few more that I forgot to mention. ugh, thank you so much! great insight of children of narcissist. I will use this information you just provided to think about the best approach for him.
NA & Anm, Adding to your thoughts, NA, in my family, we are absolutely expected to uphold the facade. There would be very unpleasant consequences for breaching the facade. To this day I still feel guilty sharing the my true perspective. So I can assure you, if I had seen a therapist as a child, it would not have helped and I would not have felt safe. I did seek therapy as an adult and also found it unhelpful because the therapist was of the mindset that parents are just “doing their best” and “want the best for the child” and as a result, the parents deserve more empathy and more understanding (the therapist was only able to their own perspective as non N). The problem was, I paid a significant price for my empathy and nothing changed (actually became worse over time). This is one reason why I am so grateful for finding HG and his accurate, unvarnished descriptions and exceptional, actionable advice that genuine works and opens up the space for healing to begin.
I know of others (I have no children) that have sent their children to therapy. The N parent used it to blame the child for being a “problem” (of course the N parent is not to blame for the child’s difficulties). The N parent also refused to participate in therapy though it was requested. Even if they had, no good would’ve come of it as this person is blind to their narcissism and the therapist would be painted black after one session or would have been used to further manipulate the child. No good came from that therapy. One child I know that was sent to therapy did not feel free to express themselves, but liked the art session portion of therapy. That child talked to me frequently and candidly (I was a neighbor) and I never shared any secrets. We are friends to this day years later.
Anm, With regard to a perfectionist N, this describes my MRN parent. I would suggest you ask your son how he feels and how he would like to be accepted by others. I bet he wants to have a bit of breathing room and to be accepted and liked for who he is at his own pace. I find asking children how they feel and what they think very helpful because a N parent NEVER asks questions, they tell the child what to think, what to feel and how to be, because they see the child as a reflection of themselves. This is an awful experience for the child and results in either adherence or defiance. Perfectionism is really a means of control and manipulation. Aiming for excellence is good in terms of a best effort because it is an expression of what you care about and how you conduct yourself (by your own standards), but it becomes unhealthy when it must be according to someone else’s imposed standards of perfection. The learning and giving of yourself and developing your own style is more important than perfection. If your son feels seen and heard and accepted by you, he will be more likely to accept himself and feel good about his efforts, and as a result he will be better armed against narcissism’s influence. It’s always a good thing when a child starts to consider, does this feel right for me? So that N demands cannot be imposed without question.
I do suppose a good therapist might offer a level of acceptance of all things, instead of perfectionism, but this would need to be demonstrated by interviewing the therapists in advance. Lastly I would say there are N therapists too. So I would be cautious regarding therapy. I hope you did not mind another opinion from an ACoN empath.
FYC, Thank you! I appreciate all input from adult children of narcissist. I originally joined this blog to help cope with leaving a narcissist. Now I feel I am gravitated to read about the experiences and advice from the adult children of narcissist who are on this site, so I can help navigate my children through some of their obstacles, in a non-codependent manner on my behalf. Yes, I have seen and know about Narcissist using therapy as a weapon against their children. A dear friend of mine, who is a bit older lost custody of her children due to the children refusing court ordered Reunification Therapy, aka the children failed to bond with their abusive parent in therapy, so the blame was put on the healthy mother. I have even had my own therapy documents subpoenaed by a narcissist for court. So I agree, proceed with caution for dealing with counseling being used as a weapon. For the remaining of time while I am dealing with custody battles for my daughter, I am actually utilizing services from a domestic violence shelter to help prevent the weaponizing of counseling. They are aware of abusers using counseling to hurt their victims, so they use labels like “case update sessions”, “parenting group”, “Playtime for kids”. A lot of it is organized in a way to keep abusers from getting a hold of the records. All of that is to protect against a malignant narcissist though.
I think what i may do for my son, who’s father isn’t malignant, but still intense, after reading yours and NA’s comments, I may look into services through his school to see if there is any extra curricular activities to help him with resilience and self-esteem. He thrives at school, so maybe that is the place to start. Thank you again for your input as well.
Anm, Absolutely my pleasure. If my experience can help other children it would be a great honor. It sounds like you are well informed and understand your challenges well and have good support. I would just add that you are the greatest counter balance to your N ex. Your love and interest and caring and validation and acceptance is the antidote to the opposite from your husband. If the school group or other support reinforces or accentuates those nurturing and affirming qualities, all the better, if not you can quit. I think you are wise to be cautious about therapy. I know too well it does not take a malignant N to use something against someone. All Ns want control all the time and will do what they must to have that control.
The last bit of observation I would like to offer is that of a friend of mine. She left her abusive (diagnosed) N husband with her two children. They were 7 and 11 at the time. She often spoke poorly of their father (understandably). Conversely, their father and his supporters spoke ill of their mother. This dynamic was very hard on the children (I know because I have known them since birth). The problem is, it is not lost on the child that they are a part of BOTH parents. If they reject (or are expected to reject) the N, this brings guilt and stress for the child even if they do not like the N parent. It is important to listen to their experience from their point of view and help them navigate their feelings and thoughts (and protect them from manipulation). I think employing logical thinking is crucial in this situation (since manipulation is so provoking of everyone involved). I hope you have a separate support system to vent your frustrations with or the blog is a great place for that as well. We all care and understand. I would imagine HG’s Child Defender would be a great package for you to consider too.
Anm, I also want to add that it is so commendable the you are thinking about all the influences that a N parent can have on the child, and are taking a proactive approach to set your child up to succeed. Very well done.
Thank you, FYC. you are absolutely correct with everything you mentioned. thank you
I see an overwhelming feeling of longing and the unmet human need of true connection. As children, our tender little nervous systems are programmed to receive empathic attunement and when not met with the eyes and ears of a healthy parent, our psyche is brilliant in its protection.
Very few people seem to discover that it’s the thought of doing the work to free oneself, rather than the actual work, that is terrifying. As new neural pathways are forged while we attune to our own unmet needs and the rage and despair are allowed, we learn to live with our demons while acting from our Higher knowing. The esteem one experiences while finding such courage and bravery is the anecdote to shattering the false illusions of anything less than our greatness at simply being alive. Our broken parent was a victim too. Transcending enables forgiveness which becomes surprisingly easy once you see them through conscience eyes. Very few people were adequately loved as children. It is the human condition and perhaps our reason for being here is to discover that love is already within. Once that is, you discover you are completely OK without “the other”.
Homo sapies is a piece of s…t. We certainly don’t love when we send our own flesh to be killed in foreign lands, after all the drama of the delivery, etc. Narcissism will be necessary, as long as we continue creating suffering for the sake of greed. It is a phenomenon which probably has paleo origins. I cant wait until the earth is free of us and starts recovery, by us I mean ppl. I am going to read your beginning. But remember that we have only one illness, lack of love. From there our brains starting having to save us and created symptoms that we call illnesses. It’s just atteps to regulate ourselves, but it may not happen before you die. But I want to know what happened to my mom that turned into a narc. I want to love her for her lack in childhood, but she discarded me. Oh well.
lack of unconditional love from a parent created my beloved Narcissist. …
This is how it started? I’d say, this, is how its always been….
I remember before my relationship began with the ex-N, he said, “I see dead people”. We were just goofing around as friends do and I asked him if he really did. I told him I’d understand if so and that I wouldn’t judge. He just laughed and never said anything about it again. I know he never really saw dead people in the sense that we think about, but this pic is an illustration of what I believe he has seen in his life and still sees today at 54 years of age. It’s a picture of complete sorrow and emptiness to me.
I see her, him, them…..
HG. I truly hope you heal. As you might be able to tell, this is haunting. Does this come up in your therapy sessions? How do the doctors address it?
Thank you 1jaded, I appreciate your kind sentiment. It does and I shall be writing about it in due course.
I see emptiness. Grasping at air. The abyss.
I like the pic.
This picture reminded me of “hungry ghosts” from Buddhism
Like many others here, I hope you are able to recover from having your safety and original spirit stolen. Indeed, it was wrongfully taken, though not completely and not obliterated. Yes, you survived and found a highly effective coping mechanism, a tribute to the human capacity to survive, at the expense of certain things, as you well know. I’m glad you survived and now is the time to collect your rightful belongings and “come home” (your original spirit). Home exists in the heart, not a person or place and you can find this, I have faith. Not common, no. Not easy. And doable. I believe, if you wish it. Only then.
Indy, I love your way of putting things. You have such a calming way about you. I just spew bluntly.
Hi Jaded1, Thank you for your sweet words. I love it when you post in depth responses. It shows your deeper understanding and strong empathy. ❤️
HG. Few things creep me out. This picture does. Did you see/feel this when you were little? Has it changed since? I just want to protect you from that, even though you will run away. Possibly more to come. I just want you to know these thoughts for now. Thank you for sharing what must be an uncomfortable share.
When you look at this picture do you see the sense of despair, that sensation of feeling lost, the overwhelming desperation? That is how it was and I found a way to alleviate all of that. I found my way.
I see all of those things HG! I went a different way then you however. But it seems we still end up lonely and lost!!! Xxx
Indeed FM but I am not lonely.
Oh yeah, the sense of feeling lost, overwhelming desperation. That’s how it is growing up with a mother who’s a Narcissistic Borderline Personality. You never know what will set her off/trigger her rage.
My nurturing instincts come out when I hear such things Mr. Tudor. But I have to accept that no matter what I do, I can never alleviate the pain of your past… Just the same as you cannot, nor will you ever try to alleviate mine.
I FELT all of that from this picture. I can finally put a face (shiver) to what happens in my thoughts of darkness, too. I could never do that before, so thank you.
You found a way. This may make you angry but here goes anyway. It reminds me of The Green Mile when the one they call JC spews the ick out, particularly when he transferred it to the prison guard. It feels like you are cupping your mouth against ours and transferring these things. Probably not a good analogy but that’s what comes to mind. The scene from the movie Ghost kind of comes to mind as well, though for some reason I found that hokey.
I hope you find another path, a true healing path…along with peace.
It has to be excruciating for a child, as young as 8 and under to process understanding experiencing terror and panic (and pain) at the hands of one of your parents.
It makes a powerless child comply with whatever is asked in order to survive. Therein lies what became encoded in the emotional side of your brain. It’s really a matter if you’re open, at this stage in your adulthood, now that you yourself protected little HG inside of you so young by shutting off “feeling”, if now, you choose for yourself to experience real intimacy and what paths that can open for you as a new positive experience.
Truth, like love and sleep, resents
Approaches that are too intense.
W.H. Auden, poet
I’m guessing the method of coping and surviving modified your young brain into accepting an existence with the conflicts your mother presented as completely normal. Your brain wants to return to what it knows after you’ve been in a relationship for awhile. Probably causes the boredom and restlessness to kick in.
Beautifully put, MLA
H.G. you made me laugh when you said ” When you look at this picture do you see the sense of despair, that sensation of feeling lost, the overwhelming desperation?”
H.G. it is quite apparent that you are on the prowl and trying to reel more victims in with another one of your pity plays by shifting the blame to your childhood.
With my extensive background and training in child psychology and working with delinquents, I have seen this evil side emerge from the moment your type are born. You are dark entities, constantly seeking attention, and needling and manipulating everyone you encounter. Most of your type are just born that way! Yes, some are certainly shaped for better or worse by childhood experiences. James Fallon is a classic example.
This site just enables you to troll for empath victims on the site. Tell me are you serving time in prison or have you ever served time?
Hello Rosemary, no I have never been incarcerated and I am not currently incarcerated. Stupid, guilty people and some stupid innocent people go to prison. I am neither stupid nor guilty, since there is always the presumption of innocence and there has been no proof to the contrary, thus this presumption is the golden thread which weaves through criminal justice systems around the world.
Wow Rosemary. Im a bitch but I maintain that Im not mean. Did your childhood shape you to be rude and dismissive of things that you may study yet never fully understand?
I realize this comment is four years too late, but I feel it would be a greater injustice to let this stand. Rosemary is incorrect. The greater body of research does not support her view in the least. James Fallon was not raised in a lack of control environment and he attributes this to the reason he did not develop classic APD behaviors. Comments like these from people who received a degree, but do not become educated and who feign to “help” others, yet in reality do no such thing (by way of this example) are very revealing. I can only imagine the damage done to her clients. She might want to examine her own lack of empathy and need for control. Her comment actually spotlights the greater need for HG’s *accurate* information.
FYC
Rosemary was pissed off. She had a baby and found out there was no mat leave or child support for having the Devil’s spawn.
And she drank all that Tannis root, which was totally gross.
NA, Hahaha. That explains it.
Scary picture…. I am wondering if this has something to do with the beast inside… looks like inner demons to me! 😨
Today is very hot and beach weather and since the narcissist? sociopath? psychopath has been on a three day mission to devalue and destroy the victim, his frustration and threats are becoming laughable. We have everything in the past three days of his mania that if were not delivered so seriously and with such vengeance could feature in a comedy!
Without going into much detail, this mornings into this afternoons threats have come from left, right and midfield. His matey mate (not that matey mate ever invites him around) has a new job in the hospital removing body parts, yes body parts and even heads included according to the ? narcissist or whatever he is. Wow, like I really believe that a hospital provides employment for eight hours per day @ five days per week for an employee to remove the parts of people of what he believes to be true, does. Furthermore let’s be realistic here: Preservation of life is key to medicine although yeah, there are exceptions. Preservation of limbs or those extremities dependent on for activities of daily living surely are not expended so thoughtlessly. When calculating the hours x days that is a hell of a lot of body parts and enough to warrant further investigation or a royal commission! Wow, as for removal of heads in theatre I guess Mr.? was stumped (lol) when I quickly replied with a quirky: What kind of surgery involves removal of someone’s head! Oh dear the lack of self-awareness is chronic around here, I mean can you imagine all of these heads being discarded in yellow plastic bags for removal as realistic? I sure as hell don’t think so!
Unleashed fury came at me like a nail gun fully loaded for my apparent stupidity, lack of intelligence and to verify the claims I was told in such profanity how if I don’t believe him, then his mate can prove it! I politely said, “Well he is a bigger bulls**t artist than you!” He is not about to let this one drop so has turned purple with inner rage, spilled it out including removing the television where he broke the aerial (lol) as punishment is the call of the day for my stupidity! I am not to eat anything, then further to back up his fury and deliver more punishment he has announced that his matey mate will give him what he needs from the body parts and that I best be careful if I eat anything in the house because I won’t know what is being placed or ground up into my food (lmao).
He has stuffed himself over again, as I have recorded his outbursts and will make a note of calling environmental services dept of the hospital to inform of the way that body parts are being used and offered around according to him and I dare say that there are many limitations as to what can be disposed of and unless there is an underground belly of black market frankensteinian body services operating I fear he has completely lost his head (oops, lol). I told him his story will make heads roll (lol) and oh boy looks like I am in the bad books for the rest of the weekend!
Looks like a depiction of face blindness’ where according to latest figures, 1 in 50 people have.
Prosopagnosia
“Thanks for the crumbs from your table, Mrs. Dives.”
Margaret Mitchell, GWTW
“Never love anyone who treats you as ordinary.”
Oscar Wilde
Now that we know…we can make it all so much better ♡
I did not understand this one!
Do you think as a child you could feel love and happiness ? Do you remember ?
I do not recall love. There was something else but it is just a fog now.
If it was there before it can be brought back . What age do you believe it became a fog?
Around 8.