How No Contact Feels Part – Two



The response of the Lesser Narcissist to the implementation of No Contact has been described, what then of the Mid-Range Narcissist? Let us begin with the scenario where you have decided to escape him and you convey this news to him in person.

The declaration that you are ending the Formal Relationship will naturally result in the Mid Ranger experiencing criticism and thus his fury will be ignited. Unlike the Lesser, The Mid Ranger will be able to exert some control over this ignited fury. He also tends to have it manifest as cold fury, rather than heated fury. The initial response will be for the Mid Ranger to keep the ignited fury under control. Instead, he will focus his energies on a Preventative Hoover as he tries to stop you from moving forward with your stated intention. The Mid Ranger will rarely utilise charm in the Preventative Hoover (unlike the Greater) but instead will opt for deploying a Pity Play and appealing to your empathic traits such as compassion, pity and guilt. The Mid Ranger, will not, at least at first, lash out like a Lesser. He can maintain some control for a short period of time. He is also predisposed to acting in a passive aggressive manner along with having the benefit of having some calculating ability. He will realise that you are naturally dissatisfied with his behaviour and performance in the Formal Relationship and this is what he will seize on. Whilst he is able to maintain control, he will opt for apologising and showing apparent recognition of the faults you may well have described in your parting shot. When telling a Mid Ranger that the Formal Relationship is at an end, you should expect to hear the following comments: –

“I realise now that things are not as good as they should be, I am sorry.”

“You are right; I have not been thinking about you as much as I should have.”

“I have been busy with work and I have neglected you. I guess I have been trying to do the right thing for us by working hard, but I got it wrong.”

“I won’t be able to manage without you.”

“You cannot leave me; I won’t know what to do.”

“I will be lost without you.”

“I should have realised sooner but I have been distracted, I have not treated you as well as I should have.”

“Please give me a chance to put things right.”

“You are right in what you say, I need to change. I can. Please will you help me?”

“I just need another chance and you will see that I can makes things right again.”

You can expect earnest looks, tears and apparent remorse and contrition. None of it is real in terms of being meant for you. Instead this is the manifestation of the Mid-Ranger’s growing fear at the looming loss of his primary source. He is fearful for himself, feels sorry for himself and appears to be contrite and remorseful purely as a device to stop you from leaving.

If this Preventative Hoover fails, then the Mid-Range suffers a further criticism and now his ignited fury can no longer be kept under control. He lacks the ability to continue this control and furthermore the increased criticism has wounded him considerably meaning the wound needs to be healed. The ignited fury causes him to seek fuel and since you are proximate to him, that fuel will be sought from you.

The immediate manifestation of this ignited fury will be through cold fury. The Mid Ranger will sulkily seek to apply emotional blackmail against you in order to provoke a reaction from you and thus gain fuel. Expect to hear comments such as: –

“I cannot believe you are doing this after everything that I have done for you.”

“So, this is how you treat someone who has loved you like nobody else?”

“How can you do this to me? Don’t I mean anything to you?”

“I was right. You are just selfish aren’t you? I have done so much for you and you treat me like dirt.”

“You are a selfish bitch, all my friends said you would do this, but oh no, I defended you. Looks like I wasted my time.”

Note how in the Preventative Hoover there was apparently some recognition of being at fault, some sense of culpability and blame? That was false and this is demonstrated by the sudden switch to blaming you instead. It was never the fault of the Mid Ranger; it was your fault all along. He is hard done to and you are the horrible, awful person who has been so beastly to him.

If you react and provide fuel, the Mid Ranger will keep going, laying the guilt on thick in order to heal his wound with the fuel that you have provided. If you supply sufficient fuel for this to happen and his ignited fury is extinguished, he will then withdraw. He will not risk attempting a further Preventative Hoover. He has enough awareness to realise that his shift to blaming you, insulting you and accusing you of being the one at fault will not bring you back. However, with fury extinguished he will instead withdraw and turn his attention to seeking a new primary source. You will be let go and in his mind the Mid-Ranger will be the one who has ended it.

If you fail to provide any fuel at this additional criticism, if you are dealing with a Lower Mid-Ranger you may find yourself subjected to some property destruction and/or low level violence (slapping, pushing, spitting) in order to try again to draw fuel. If it is provided, the behaviour will continue until the fury is extinguished and then he will withdraw.

If you fail to provide any fuel, then the Mid Ranger will effectively flounce off and walk away from you. This happens for two reasons. Firstly, this enables him to maintain that he ended the relationship with you. Secondly, this is because he will now seek out sympathetic secondary and even tertiary sources to regale them with his tale of woe at how horrible you have been and to smear you. This will garner him the fuel he needs (since you failed to provide it) and his wound will be addressed. He will then focus on acquiring the new primary source to replace you, leaving you alone. The Mid Ranger will be extensive in his smearing of you and the sucking up of sympathy from anybody and everybody. He will play the victim to a considerable degree and is therefore likely to obtain the fuel he needs to heal his wound and then provide him with the energy to seek out the new primary source. He will play the hard done to spouse, the cuckolded boyfriend as he invents all manner of tales about your reprehensible behaviour in order to milk the situation he is in for all it is worth.

If you do not tell the Mid Ranger that the Formal Relationship has ended in person and instead you send a message, leave a note and let him work it out for himself, he will attempt to prevent the implementation of No Contact through a Preventative Hoover before it is too late. You will be bombarded with messages, telephone calls and personal appearances for the purpose of pleading with you and begging you. Expect stones thrown at your window and begging displays from underneath your bedroom window. His remorse will be extensive and the desire to change significant but it is all part of the Preventative Hoover. If this fails, he will switch to lashing out at you as described above in order to try and gain fuel.

If the Mid Ranger is unable to effect any kind of contact with you since your implementation of No Contact has been so total, he will be forced to seek fuel from secondary and tertiary sources. He will do so on the basis of self-pity, misery and wanting sympathy from those sources. The Mid Ranger is apt to using this sympathy milking to promote an inner circle friend who is comforting him during this terrible period to a new primary source so that he gains fuel quickly and is then able to focus on this person and forget about you. If there is no promotion, even whilst drawing the sympathy fuel form secondary and tertiary sources the Mid Ranger will be looking for a new primary source in order to re-instate the appropriate fuel level which has been removed by your commencing No Contact.

If the Mid Ranger should find himself in the position of not being able to draw fuel from secondary or tertiary sources or he uses up those reserves before he is able to secure a new primary source, then he will slip into isolation and depression. This is rare for the Mid Ranger. This is because invariably he has enough cognitive function to draw the fuel from secondary and tertiary sources to sustain him whilst he secures a primary source. He has enough ability to know how to portray his situation to maximise his position.

The Mid Ranger, of the three schools of narcissism behaves the most pathetically when there is the threat of and the subsequent implementation of No Contact. He first begs and pleads. If that does not work, he blames and lashes out verbally, but it is petulant and sulky. There is no terrible fury like that of the Lesser. He is not even able to launch into strong violence, opting instead for milder forms as described above. Eventually he withdraws and seeks the solace of others by doling out pity plays to anybody who will listen and leaving you well alone for fear of further criticism.

Of course hoovers may follow in the future, dependent on the relevant criteria, but for the Mid Ranger, the threat of No Contact brings a desperate plea to prevent it and in the event that fails, expect petulant insults, self-pity and withdrawal, with the attendant smearing and need to draw sympathy from others.


89 thoughts on “How No Contact Feels Part – Two”

  1. Dear HG Tudor,

    Thank you so very much for creating this site. Your writing is eloquent and beautiful to read, but also overflowing with powerful knowledge and insight not found elsewhere.

    From you, I have learned the reason for my pain and inability to work out what was wrong in my hot/cold on/off adoring/avoidant consistently inconsistent relationship.

    When I realised, through reading here, I did laugh out loud. Joyfulness
    Is found in knowledge as is power. I’ve done not contact for over a year. I used to think we had struggles due to the long distance factor but the ghosting and ups and downs had me in a mess, I knew I had to cut loose.

    So much I have discovered and uncovered in this journey. So many lies, multiple women, addiction to sex, I have been blessed with the distance factor as it has kept me safe in many ways, although I was definitely the ‘dirty little secret’.

    I’m grateful to be out of it, but I know he will contact me again. He recently did, even though he was with someone new. I had worked out I was discarded over her, but I never divulged this to him. Power in knowledge. I had nothing to prove.

    I’ve changed my email and deleted social media. He will struggle to find me and even if he does, I’ll not reply.

    Again, the biggest thank you to you. I am feeling relief, happiness and blessed to have found your site. It’s allowed me to let go and see it for what it really was. I’m stronger, grateful and free.

    Your writing style is truly awesome.



  2. Hello. I’m new here but already so empowered and encouraged.

    I have just this week escaped from the biggest mistake of my life A mid-range married man I met online completely suckered and then drained me for five years. I knew it was wrong to begin with and I began to see my mistake in compromising my ethics early on. I tried to extricate myself for the sake of his marriage, but he only saw loss of control and abandonment, so he lined up his next fuel source.

    By educating and arming myself with practical knowledge, I was able to quietly prepare for the inevitable next betrayal and recognize my chance for a flawless NC.

    Since I’m so gullible and compliant, he got confident enough to give me access to his computer while he went on vacation with his family. I found a buried email written the day before he left to his next-in-line. So I readdressed it back to him knowing he’d get it on his phone while at the airport with his wife and kids, bound for an island with minimal internet access. Then I severed all methods of contact including social media. I was his Holy Grail of supply and no way does he want to lose me…but he is bored, threatened and needs fresher supply. And now he has to wait 7 days with no control before his return.

    In bracing myself for the inevitable hoover attempt, I will keep the words: “This ends now. I do not know you. I do not recognize you. You do not exist.” handy to shut it down.

    Interestingly, he has a career in substance abuse counselling. He is a falsely-perceived inspiration to a bunch of vulnerable human beings. I could ruin that career with exposure if he attempts to get negative fuel from me (if he can even see that possibility over his massive hubris).

    I swear I am sorry for my transgressions, and I will not falter on the NC promise to myself. My God, did I learn.

    Thank you for this blog and for the comments that unequivocally endorse NC. I’m going to heal and forgive myself.

    1. Hello Sandra and welcome on board. That is a good move re the e-mail, now raise the drawbridge and build your no contact as he will look to lash out at you. You would be better placed ignoring any attempt to ruin his career, tempting as it is, it will not be a swift and clean strike and he will look to turn it against you through smearing and attacking you. You have wounded him with your e-mail, use the start you have to secure your no contact and avoid the hoovers that will come.

  3. Wow..thanks for the info HG. I suspect my ex-fiance was a mid-ranger. I fell pregnant , he proposed marriage then 2 weeks after triangulated me with his baby mom. Told us he loved us both equally and wishes we would just get along. A week after that he ghosted me. I endured the pain a little , then I reached out again after 2 weeks of being ghosted. He explained that I was the one that had dumped him which is why he did not speak to me. The real version of the event is that I told him I had left him alone and that i accept the end of our relationship after 2 days of calls and messages being ignored. Anyway I had to explain that he ignored me so that’s why i concluded thst we were over. We reconciled for a week then he dumped me over the phone at exactly 7 days. I asked him what of the pregnancy and the baby, he said I know where to find him if the baby ever needs anything from him. After that I delete all his things from my phone, returned his things to his home where they were received by the other lady. I blocked him. A week after he started with the calls and messages which ascalated after he realised he was blocked. He started using different numbers that i would pick but drop at the sound of his voice. 2 months down the line he showed up at my place and told me he had dumped his baby mom, he is sorry, he realises what he had done and that he understand why i should hate him. I made it clear that I had forgiven him and myself that very first day he dumped me andthat he mustn’t worry about it, that everuthing was on track. Even the pregnancy. He begged thst i let him back into my life but i told him its impossible as i no longer have feelings for him. He begged and cried and said all sorts of things until i politely asked to leave him and go back into the house…he followed me, begged some more…i finally decided to shut the door on him and that was the end of it.Until now.

  4. After wounding him several times, the upper mid range narc put me (DLS) on the shelf for a couple of months before hoovering me back. I asked him if he has replaced me during his absence which he vehemently denies. Which is more likely that he only had his IPPS or he did have another DLS? If so why would he deny her existence? Any reason behind it?

    1. It is difficult for me to comment without more facts as to the interaction between you and him, the interaction between him and the IPPS and additional information.

  5. I have come back to this article and thread today.
    It is really brilliant.
    And the commenters particularly Sarabella…wow.
    A bigger wow than before as time as shown all comments of advice to have been so accurate.

    Its been some time since I first read this particular article and thread….which I firstly read through my emotional fog !!
    I stumbled through literally hanging onto every word…it helped me so much at the time.

    The fog lifted a bit and I forged forward with HGs help and all of the commenters encouragement too.

    Time passes and the repeated shannanigans of the mid ranger as described above continued..

    This last week i got sucked into contact by bumping into him outside and everything came crashing round my ears … things escalated over the next few days until I let him have both barrells of negative fuel!! On no.🙊🙈

    Back to the drawing board.

    I dont follow this blog via email but do so manually and randomly…Yet I was led back to this thread today…It is supportive and encouraging. Validating and even more enlightening as time has passed by.

    It is wise..(HG) and there is kindness and further wisdom here amongst the commenters. Practical advice. Logical. Caring and understanding is here on this blog.

    And thats why I call you all
    “dear ones” because your words are precious balms and practical help.

    Thank you HG.
    Thank you ‘all’. xx💌

  6. I just read your book on No Contact and wanted to tell you how it healed me immensely. I am so grateful you mentioned the APB as that had been one of the final pieces of closure I needed. Thank you!

  7. “Of course hoovers may follow in the future, dependent on the relevant criteria, but for the Mid Ranger, the threat of No Contact brings a desperate plea to prevent it and in the event that fails, expect petulant insults, self-pity and withdrawal, with the attendant smearing and need to draw sympathy from others.”

    HG, I have noticed most of your articles are directed to the primary, still very helpful to me as I have experienced that also, but as you know my recent narc kept me as a shelf IPSS. I escaped this formal relationship and have been no contact for about a month now- changed number, deleted social media, etc. So far no hoover attempts. Would you say that since I had such a small role in his fuel matrix that it is unlikely he will attempt to hoover me? Also I do believe I may have wounded him by contacting a woman who may have been an IPSS, and sending back is gifts.

    1. There is always a risk of a hoover no matter what role you played in the fuel matrix. It depends on the Hoover Trigger and the Hoover Execution Criteria. Of course some sources are more at risk of hoovers than others.
      I would not say it is unlikely he will hoover you.

  8. Hi HG,

    Enlightening article…. I have been NC with my ex-manager for 6 months. I suddenly resigned. She wanted to know why. I was very firm and then walked out. This was before i realised she was a mid range narc, so i am pleased i did the right thing.

    She has recently tried to hoover me, and i am thinking of reporting her to her boss for this (as she sent some documents to my house which she should not have done).

    I am just wondering if i do it, would that provide fuel for her? Is attempting to expose someone, providing fuel?

    Also, i bumped into her recently and she tried to hide herself and ran away. This has confused me as i thought a narc would enjoy the interaction. It was strange as she seemed scared of me. Why would a narc react in this way? Is it because i was so firm with her when i left?

  9. HG

    This article is so spot on.
    Very validating to see the typical behaviour in print.
    That it exists!
    That I’m not delusional or whatever else was thrown at me for fighting back.

  10. Sarabella

    Thank you for the post you dad to Smoke.
    I just wanted to say its fabulous. So helpful. Spot on.
    …no reply link there..

  11. Thank you HG. This student must be learning well….. this is almost verbatim as to what I was thinking. 🙂 I may bring you an apple to class 😉

  12. Can I please ask a specific question HG?

    I am in the process of sorting out logistics of moving out of the mid range-victim narc’s house (formal relationship ended at Christmas but I’m still stuck in this limbo, trying to not rock the boat and keep out of the way as much as possible. I suspect he’s getting some fuel from the fact that in a sense he still has ‘control’, and of course there’s residual benefits to me being around still, but other than that, no emotional output from me at all). He still has ‘friendly’ relations with exes (of course, they’re all crazy and/or wicked, but ”he doesn’t bear grudges”), and I reckon he thinks I’m going to slot neatly into that position too, becoming another handy ‘secondary’ source. Not likely pal, why on earth would I want a ‘friend’ like you!!

    On the day I leave, I think his parting shots will be bullshit along the lines of ”I’m so sorry it didn’t work out, we were so good together once” and ”if you need anything, call, you know I will do anything to help”, ”give my regards to everyone, I will really miss them” or ”keep in touch” etc.

    I would like *my* parting shot to leave him under no illusions, and if it happened to wound him that would be an added bonus!! 😉 What can I say to him? How can I put it succinctly (maybe a one-sentence parting shot) that I think he’s a pathetic loser and that this utter nonsense stops right here, without it giving him fuel?

    1. Well HG I did it. It was done through an anonymous number. However, he engaged in texting that number with this other supply around. They were both texting me at the same time. What do you think of that? Why would he bother? You think he suspects me? I told the supply I was his girlfriend. We have been NC for a month.

  13. Mine told me if I cannot change my formula then I need to move on. I can no longer make him happy. He told me he is moving on. Was this the discard? I never responded. Should I expect him back anytime soon? That was 3 weeks ago. I suspect my new supply was in tact as he has not been on his usual online dating sites since that conversation took place. Thank you HG you have kept me sane through all of this 🙂

    1. Hello Smoke, that was a discard. He will hoover subject to the usual considerations but it will not be for a while UNLESS he has made a mistake with the new primary source who malfunctions at an early stage.

      1. Thank you. If I were to break NC ….I would most likely be ignored because he is focusing on my replacement and is in the middle of the seduction phase. I would love to mess that up for him but I don’t think that is an option.

      2. Smoke:
        I think you can mess it up for him if only in an indirect way. If you disappear, you are eroding any carry over fuel he has that is helping him to target someone else. If you remove yourself, he is more vulnerable to experiencing the ‘malfunctions’ of the new appliance. He is left with only one choice, the new appliance (although there might be others). If you utter a peep, that will be fuel. He will take that energy and use it to embolden himself. It will prevent him from seeing that he only has the new source, and no longer you. His new source is IT. And its likely, to make him become more critical of the new source faster..after all, he doesn’t want to get stuck with her, either.

        It’s very infantile like, like a child who moves further from mom. Even as he wants his independence to explore, in his mind, mom is always there to run back to. This unconscious and natural reality gives a child courage and boldness to explore their environment to try new things. You would be acting as “mom” by letting him know you think of him, are there for him or any such subtle or direct message. Even a negative reaction shows him that you are still there for him. You are demonstrating, too, that you are not expecting anything in return, any reciprocity, just that you are there for him, as mom. And that is what will give him courage to ‘explore’ his new world.

        DEPRIVE him of ever taking anything from you that gives him any courage to target someone new. Disappear. But you also have to face that this person will never, ever love you. Once you accept that, and grieve that, tolerate how betrayed you felt, how imbalanced it all was, what a waste of time and life, and you accept it, even if it hurts, you will find the courage to EVAPORATE and leave him cast adrift. After all, he left you that way. But if he even senses you are there for him, in any way, you are feeding him.

        Pretty sure this is how it works? But it’s very hard to accept its over and was never or will never be what you wanted. But if you can, and you erase him from life, you will leave your mark. Not the one you wanted, but it is at least some mark.

        So… Go. Disappear. Consider that EVERYTHING you were doing with him was not love but one power game after another. Nothing else. Just deprive him of any power. You can try to find power by going after him. Depending on where he is on the scale, you might launch a rage attack so fierce, you can cause a few narc injuries. But that is also what we do when we think the person might have a bit of love in them and want to make it right with us. You have to accept there was never any love. You were disposable, like yesterday’s trash. So don’t offer him a thing and you will find far more power. You have to accept the loss though, and that takes time…..

      3. Or if someone offers his supply information on his intentions 😉 will he be upset? Will this cause him injury?

  14. The final Hoover phone call was 36 minutes long. I was six months pregnant and I’d just told his wife he was narc and he was conning both of us. She texted back in his defence. So I sent her photo proof.

    The last phone call wasn’t in the order above but someone like it.

    It went:

    Are you happy now? She’s kicked me out (no doubt she hadn’t), don’t ever contact me again!

    No response.

    What do you want me to do? Come all the way up there (1400k)? You want me to get on the road? Right now?

    You’re not going to do that.

    Don’t contact me again! I gave you $1,000 and this is what you do to me? You’re a vindictive bitch! (I don’t feel any real anger, I feel like it’s a show). Why did you do it?

    Because you didn’t call me on my birthday after telling me you would and you lied about the money you gave me.

    That’s it? Because I didn’t call you for your birthday?

    It was also Friday and you told me you would call me Fridays to ask me how I was doing.

    I was in another town with my son at a sport event!

    I don’t care.

    Don’t contact me again! Or.. Just wait til I calm down. I need to calm down and then we can talk about it.

    No response from me.

    How could you do this? She looked at the photo (of him in hotel room with a date stamp) and she just looked at me and screamed ‘get out!’

    No response (neither did I believe him).

    I still love you! After everything you’ve put me through!

    No response.

    You’d better hope she hasn’t kept any of your text messages because she’s got a big lawyer in X and she’ll sue you for your flat!’

    Me laughing – sue me for my flat? Haha – no she won’t.

    I can’t remember anything else that was said. But he hung up at some point. Then he texted within 2 minutes that it was over, and please do not contact him again. Then he blocked me on an app where I could see that I was blocked.

    I didn’t believe him. And I never contacted him again. And he’s never met his son (19 months now).

    I took him to court. He has been held financially accountable. He used to pay every week (what a lovely reminder for him), but now he pays every month and for some reason, double.

    I win. And after reading your blog, HG, he’ll be back.

    But I’ll have read ALL your books by then. 🙂

      1. Why is it always this?! “Don’t contact me again! Or.. Just wait til I calm down. I need to calm down and then we can talk about it.”

        I can’t tell you how many times I got massive dramatic “Leave me alone you bipolar, crazy, psychotic, fatal attraction bitch” and then the grand, “Just give me time, take a break from me, give us time, we will meet again….”

        So I get now that it was always ‘leaving the door open for themselves’. When it first started happening, it was crazy making. If I was in fact SOOO horrid, why didn’t he block me, or even talk about ‘time’. I know now why the game, just at the time, wow, mind boggling confusing.

        This time, I said, “yes, I agree we say good-bye forever. Good luck with your life. ” And I blocked him everywhere. I left one of my messages to him, which he left unread for 10 days (longest he went, but it was over christmas so I think he had alot of party fuel but I am sure that wore off as normal life resumed) and I never looked to see if he ever finally clicked it (he always does usually after exactly 5 days) AND I left a long cold, dismissal of him on a post on IG. I suspect he is going to leave it there. I never tagged him but I am sure, from all I am learning, that he knows its there. But he cannot delete it now, as that would show he looked. And ‘cared’. It was where he and I had a fight and he deleted all of my comments but left his rage, triggered insane projection rant of me.
        How could he delete it now, after all this time?

        he can’t can he? On some level? It would show me that I was on his mind and even if I am only for having become his enemy, he is never going to show me that, is he?

        So I much, too later, have gone for option 3. Wish I had really faced and accepted who he was and my empathy wasn’t always the thing that kept me stuck in my own mental loop….. I am assuming, 2 years from now, it will hit him that I never contacted him again. I hope so. And I will watch that IG post to see if he ever deletes it.

        And if he does, I do win in a way…. cause it meant he went looking for massive negative fuel? right?

  15. I need to go NC again HG. I am determined to be successful this time. In the past I have taken the blame upon myself (“this makes me feel torn”) to avoid injuring him and causing narcissistic rage. He is a mid range. But is it best to say “You have lied. You have called me names. I don’t trust you. Goodbye.” ?

    Thank you for all your wonderful posts. I dare say you are getting more and more articulate. 🙂

  16. Freaking-A! I just went through all this. I’m just now realizing it. This is exactly what he does. A couple veiled verbal threats but mostly pity play and BEGGING profusely for me to return after 2 months NC. Dammit. It is pathetic. I wish I could separate my heart and my head and keep that in mind.

    Thank you again HG.

      1. In what way do you recommend going NC with a Mid-Range:

        1. Being a neutral/poor source of fuel until he discards then go NC.
        2. Text him “it’s over” then go NC.
        3. Ghost him completely and go NC.

      2. Option 1 has the attraction that when he discards he will have a new primary source and therefore is going to leave you be. However, the downside is you do not know how long it will take before you reach that point and what will you have to endure in the meanwhile?

        Option 2 has immediacy but you are tipping him off, so he will deploy a Preventative Hoover and then launch into an Initial Grand Hoover.

        Option 3 avoid the Preventative Hoover, allows you to prepare and obtain some degree of head start before the IGH starts.

        Option 3.

      3. SA,
        It is for your safety and ease. Option 3 is the best if he is abusive to you. Your safety (emotionally and physically comes first!). I used option 2 when my ex n was partially incapacitated (he relapsed bad on booze and I hit him hardcore when I discovered him with the–“I’m done, do not contact me” and walked out the door). I knew he couldn’t chase me, he was too inebriated. He spent two months licking his drunk azz wounds and then came back with some intense hoovering. However, finding a moment like that (which fell in my lap at the right time) can be a long wait. I had the same feeling as you. I totally understand.

        Trust HG on this one.

      4. Oh I know and I wholly trust HG.

        I actually managed to get away and remain NC for 2 months and then got sucked back in via Hoover.


      5. Good, good!

        I didn’t do option 2, I did option 1. whoops on my typo.

        Yeah, those pesky hoovers!!! Hang in there 🙂

    1. You’re so right. And he said terrible things that drove me to NC despite my love for him. Thanks for your encouragement. HG’s work and the comments have been invaluable to my understanding.

  17. Question HG-So I love reading these posts because it provides validation for me that my ex is crazy but is there any way I can avoid being triggered by reading them? Like, is there ever gonna a point where this awful feeling will disappear?

  18. I think every Empath should study and become proficient in neurolinguistics knowledge. Language seems to be everything to a Narc, in my experiences. It’s been a while. I widened up a few years back. I know the guilt that happens when this tactic is used by the Narc. We victims go into “Shit, did I make the right decisions? Now I feel bad because he/she is hurting.” That moment of guilt has to be pushed through with a really touch “fuck you” energy. Excellently written.

    1. Thank you Vennie. I think you mentioned this once before and it caught my attention but then I lost track of the blog. I looked it up now, and found Neuro-linguistic programming. NLP. Is this what you are referring to? Very interesting stuff!!

  19. The picture is hilarious. Typical narc. He’s not even looking at her. Probably trying to catch the eye of a new target by playing the role of the romantic man begging the cruel woman not to shatter his heart.

  20. HG can you easily recognise another narcissistic person and can you easily categorise them? And finally have you ever crossed paths with another elite sociopathic narcissistic person? How would that go… would you connect or compete?

  21. HG

    Another wonderful post. I love this insight into your mind.

    As I’ve mentioned, I’ve been No Contact for about 7 weeks. I really need to get back on social media for work. If I block him this will enrage him and provoke a hoover I assume. If I don’t and he sees me there this will no doubt eventually provoke some kind of hoover (maybe benign?).

    Can’t I just ignore both? What is the worst that could happen?

    Or, what if I on occasion interacted with him per normal as if all were well but didn’t message with him privately?

    1. Thank you Sail Away. It depends on whether he is focusing on his new primary source. After seven weeks he will have had to turn to a new primary source and therefore is unlikely to notice that he is blocked. If he does, he may do nothing about it because he is preoccupied with the new primary source. The hoover is more likely to occur when he is engaged in the devaluation down the line.
      If you interacted with him normally now, he will probably be irritated by it eventually and malign hoover you. This is because you are now the enemy, he has a new prize and he does not want you.

      1. His last Hoover about 10 days ago included a nickname. He wanted something, ugh. But yes, I would assume he is busy elsewhere.

        I still don’t know what to do but will take your advice not to engage.

        You would suggest blocking then I assume?

        Thank you so much for your steady advice. 😘

      2. I still really miss my Narc–he is behaving normally, as I always have seen him behave, at least according to social media. Even if I committed to being good supply, even better than last time, would he still eventually devalue and discard? Our “golden period” was about 6 months long distance with a small devaluation period before I left.

        I hate the thought of the holidays without him. But another friend mentioned if I took up with him again now he’d probably discard me in time for Christmas or New Years, just to make it hurt.

        Do you suggest maintaining NC, even if I’m great fuel?

      3. Yes he would eventually.

        NC is the answer, otherwise you will be at the whim of the call of fuel and the manipulations that go hand in hand with them.

  22. Scary accurate…
    And when no contact is not an option due to children …just repeat steps …I was wrong, how could you, poor me, disappear..aka I’m getting pity attention, I’ll get back to you later, repeat repeat repeat…

  23. Yep! 1000% accurate!
    1.) Begs and calls incessantly
    2.) gets petulant and sulky
    3.) and “If you do not call me back, I will come get your cat. I have no choice”

    1. Haha Indy! So accurate. This is why mid range is my favorite. When he gets angry it makes me laugh and his insults are usually related to him instead of me 😂 And then he just goes away. He doesn’t want me back but for some reason he can’t resist when I enter that sphere. I do give him a little fuel, but I always take it back and then some. Hide your cat!!

      1. LOL Punisher! Mine did scare me back in late August. He called and texted me everyday on my vacation many times (40 calls, 70 texts a day approx for 5-6 days). It was insane, from begging me to call to threats to break in my apartment to showing up at the job, calling my job, saying he will steal back the cat he left with me (pure bred of course, he couldn’t adopt from a pound, he had to go pure bred, he was such a snob). I ignored all of it but it scared me because I thought it was going to continue to escalate into damage of my property and to my safety. He still seems to snoop on me but for some reason I’m more comforted that I haven’t heard from him to this extreme since I shut him down and threatened the police and charges of harassment.

        Btw, my kitty would kick his ass if he tried to catnap him. This cat is not friendly to strangers and will bite claw and go crazy. Something I’m not fond of about him, though I love this little kitty very much and this kitty is affectionate with me . You wouldn’t expect a Himalayan cat to be so vicious and feisty. And I treat this kitty very well. Well, I have a watch cat. LOL

      2. That’s intense Indy! This one never did anything like that and I’ve never felt scared (he also lives really really far) I feel much better knowing you have a watch cat!

      3. Thanks Punisher😊 Me too lol! I didn’t ask for the cat but I’m glad I have the sweet killer kitty. I’m glad you do not have to endure this intense level. I seem to attract long term stalkers or intense stalker types. I’ve been maliciously stalked(first boyfriend, a lesser, of 5 years when I was a teen which led to me fleeing the state at 19), obsessively stalked (x husband, possible PD of mixed type, of 6 years) and pathetically stalked by a mid ranger (recent ex fiancé of 2 years). I’m now single since July and working on me.

      4. Well, my sister made a joke about it. You see, two of them I had hospitalized (one due to fake suicide attempt to stop divorce, the other to rehab for addiction). My sis said I should put on my dating profile, into “committed” relationships lol.

        Yeah, I wonder what I’m doing too….lol….thus my self work. 😂

      5. I probably should clarify, I did not professionally hospitalize them. That would not be ethical on my part. I also wasn’t a professional counselor then. I was trying to save the life of the addict (who died recently last month of addiction). The faked suicide of ex husband just pissed me off(my son witnessed my finding him with empty pill bottles around). I was scared and then pissed. When the hospital told me it was faked, I said keep him. I’m an empath you don’t f$ck with 😂

      6. Hahaha Indy 😂😂😂 if you were the narcissist you’d be I your element hearing about them…. that’s kinda ironic 😏

      7. Hi Em!
        Sadly, there are some out there. I really feel for clients that have had experience with therapists that are also narcicists. I know someone here said she went through it, I think Violet. It saddens me to think that someone was brave enough to go to therapy to feel harmed in the end from it. We take similar oaths as medical doctors “do no harm”, we have a very detailed ethics code and sadly some really relish the power more than the care. And, it happens. Perhaps more than realized. That’s why it’s sooo important to interview therapists first, if you can.

        Now, we could make the argument (just for an interesting debate here) that if this narcicist-therapist became an expert in narcicism treatment (what ever this is, as it is indeed very difficult to treat when those with NPD do not see the issue)that things could get interesting. Say a greater with a greater? Would it be better, bc they get each other? Would it end in flames? Or malpractice lawsuits? Would it push research further into in the field? Would make a great movie! Does it already exist as a movie? A lot of great minds and researchers definitely have qualities that could fall on the narcicist spectrum.

        Thoughts anyone?

      8. Punisher: I need to go NC with my MidRange Narc. I lasted 2 months NC and got sucked back in. He just kept bombarding me and of course pleading and promising change. I know he has not. Do you think he would ever blackmail me if I do a second time? He did not before nor did he even threaten it. I just wonder if they get “worse” every time you return. (He is being nice now I’m just preparing.) We are both married. That’s the reason I ask. Thank you.

      1. Yes, 1Jaded1,
        He tries through different ways. He tried to friend me on Facebook November 4. That was the last time he reached out. I Ignorred him. Shortly before that has mother texted me, telling me all about how he’s doing. I ignored it. And shortly before that I had tried to Hoover made during a funeral through texts and calls. All ignored.

        How bout your?

      1. I’m struggling to ignore. I’ve received 7 texts in the last week. Most kind and loving (they made me cry). A couple where I could tell he was getting frustrated I wasn’t responding.

        I have no idea why he continues, when I’ve ignored him for nearly 2 months.

      2. Hang strong, it’s worth it! The addictive pull subsides eventually, usually significantly after 30 days of no contact. Mine started texting me after two months of nothing. He got both threatening and pitiful in his texts when I ignored. It showed me he wanted control over me, not love. He texted and called over 300 times total in a weeks span. It’s confusing, scary and brings back memories of what we wanted and wished for….hold tight.

        I used HG as support along with trustworthy close family and friends. We are here. HG is great support! Folks here are awesome encouragement too!!

      3. Sail Away, keep note of the frustrating ones bc that’s what youre eventually going to be on the receiving end in person as well. He wants your fuel…nothing more or less.

      4. Awww, we are each other’s support here, 1Jaded1! I remember your words of encouragement for me when I was hoovered this past fall! HG got our backs here😊Plus, when we use our weapons against those ex narcissists out there successfully, HG can also get a chuckle out of it too. 😉

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