The Immediate Aftermath


You have been discarded. The all too inevitable entanglement with out kind. Whether we disappeared without a word, told you we needed space for ourselves or hurled insults at you as to why we hated you and wanted you to drop dead, the fact remains you have been discarded. Your emotions are raw as the discard was only a couple of weeks ago.

To exacerbate this unpleasant, bewildering and upsetting situation you know that we have a new love interest. With what seemed to you to be unnatural haste, we have been seen with a new lady on our arm, your stalking of our Facebook profile reveals we have a new boyfriend from the plethora of loved-up comments and repeated pictures of us arm in arm, grinning out at you as if we are revelling in your misery. You have not yet ascertained that as we devalued you, your replacement was being seduced and to all intents and purposes we appear to have dumped you and secured another partner in the blink of an eye. How could we do this? After all the things we said to you and all the deep and unwavering love that you have showed us, how could we be so uncaring, so nasty, such a downright bastard?

Your head is a whirlwind of questions? Why did he end things? Why did she do it that way? Who is the new person? What if they are happy together forever? What did you do wrong? What about sorting out those joint financial commitments? Could you have done something differently? Is there a chance of working things out? How can someone change like that? These questions and hundreds more torment you and it becomes unbearable. You need to talk to us. You alternate between hurt and angry, shifting between wanting to plead with us for another chance and then wanting to kick us in the balls. Most of all however, you want answers.

What then will happen if you decide to approach us during the aftermath? What reaction will you be met with if you send a message asking for answers to your questions or if you turn up somewhere to meet us in person for the purpose of obtaining some explanations? Naturally, at this juncture, undoubtedly unaware of who you have been entangled with, you do not know that you will not be given those answers. In part this is because there are no answers to give – why should we deign to answer you and do something that you want? Furthermore, many times we just do not have an answer because of the different perspective form which we operate. Add to that we will purposefully avoid giving you answers in order to keep you primed for a later hoover, to draw fuel from you and to frustrate you also.

As you may imagine, the reaction of our kind to being contacted during the initial aftermath of the discard will vary dependent on the school of narcissist that you have been dealing with. Before that is addressed, you should be aware of our general mind set at this time. You failed us. You may not have done anything wrong from your perspective but we regard you as having failed us and this led to our fuel needs being sought elsewhere and once they were secured, you were discarded. This is the most common reason for being discarded; we found a new primary source and once we were satisfied that this person was embedded, then we tossed you to one side. There are other reasons why you are discarded (see  5 Reasons We Discard You ) but the fact we have a new primary source embedded is the most common one.

When that happens we are infatuated with the new primary source. You are effectively forgotten about. You were once idealised, then you were demonised and now it is as if you do not exist because we have someone new and exciting to focus on. We do not want anything spoiling this golden period least of all the last appliance which failed us and malfunctioned and had to be placed on the scrap heap. Accordingly, if you make an appearance in some way by entering a sphere of influence  (The Spheres of Influence) then our reaction will be based on you being persona non grata and if you persist our view of you is one of antipathy, dislike and you are painted black.

Turning to the three schools of narcissism for their nuanced response to your appearance.

The Lesser

There is a good chance that the Lesser will have blocked you from social media and contacting him as part of him considering you effectively dead to him. If he has not done so and you send a message it will be ignored. He has no interest in drawing fuel from you at this point, someone else is servicing his fuel needs and you are just an irritant. If you persist in ringing or sending messages you can expect the following responses:-

“Stop ringing me I hate you.”

“Stop sending me messages, I don’t want anything to do with you.”

“Fuck off.”

“Keep contacting me and I will come down there and give you a kicking.”

The message is clear; you are unwelcome and the Lesser Narcissist wants nothing to do with you.

If you see the Lesser Narcissist and try to talk to him, he will evade you, tell you where to go and make a hasty retreat. He is not interested in you and if you try to stop him you can expect a savage verbal assault or even a physical assault as he wants you to leave him alone so he can concentrate on his new primary source. He has nothing to discuss with you, has not interest in fuel from you at this point and would prefer you to be dead.

The Mid-Ranger

If you are attempting to contact the Mid-Ranger through messages and telephoning you will also be ignored initially. If you persist in trying to make contact with him or her for the purposes of getting some answers, you can expect the following responses:-

“Leave me alone, I have nothing to say to you.”

“Stop stalking me.”

“Keep this up and I am informing the police.”

“Just stop, it is over, you have to accept it.”

The paranoia of the Mid-Ranger will mean that he is concerned you will wreck things with his new primary source by telling lies (the truth) about him. Whilst you re contacting him, he will be showing the new primary source that you are pestering him to accord with the smearing you will have already received. This smearing will continue was you are painted as an obsessive who will not let go, a stalker with mental health issues and a bunny boiler who cannot accept the relationship is over. The new primary source, the façade, the coterie and the Lieutenants will all be told about this ongoing behaviour (suitably embellished) so you are regarded as crazy and out of order. The Mid-Ranger thus preserves the façade and creates a toxic environment so if you do manage to see him or her face to face, you will not be believed and seen as trouble maker.

If an in person encounter takes place, you can expect the Mid-Ranger to want to get the hell out of there. He is preoccupied with the new primary source, he does not want you spoiling that arrangement and wants you to disappear. Lacking the aggression of the Lesser, he will wheel out Lieutenants to make you go away, threaten the use of law enforcement and appeal to others to see exactly why he needed to get rid of you in the first place. He also does not want fuel from you, he just wants you to clear off and leave him to get on with his new play thing unhindered.

The Greater

It is the Greater who welcomes you foolishly getting in touch during his new golden period with the replacement primary source. Suitably confident of his abilities and this new entranced primary source, if you begin to message him, he will seize on this chance to triangulate you with the new primary source, to punish you for failing him and to manipulate you further.

Your text messages and calls will be met with a friendly and amenable response. All the while, the Greater, already having smeared you left, right and centre, will be revelling in you trying to broker a meet-up in order to talk. He will be telling the façade and coterie that he feels sorry for you, that he needs to humour you so you don’t do anything crazy and thus paints himself as the good guy to all those watching. His responses will be along the lines of:-

“Good to hear from you, I hope you are well, what do you want to talk about?”

(What he really means is, good to hear from you because I can manipulate you, I know you aren’t well but what do I care, make me feel special by telling me what you want to talk about.)

“Well, yes we can meet-up but you do know I am with someone else now don’t you, so don’t get any ideas okay?”

“I don’t really see what there is to talk about, but I am willing to listen, I am reasonable.”

“Yes okay we can meet up if it will help you deal with what has happened.”

This apparent caring attitude and pleasantness is all fake. You are being strung along.

When you do meet the Greater, you can expect the new primary source to be there to add to your humiliation as the Greater looks lovingly at her, says good things about her and then when she goes to get a drink, the Greater will lean across the table and snarl at you for having the audacity to get in touch.

If the new primary source is not brought along, the Greater will toy with you, like a cat with a mouse. Letting you speak, enjoying the fuel as you plead, cry and become angry with him or her. He will feign dismay at your behaviour whilst inside he is laughing at you, pleased with this further boost of fuel, supremely confidant that you cannot wreck his new golden period because you have been smeared and character assassinated to a figurative death. Nobody is going to believe you and therefore he is not going to pass up the chance to draw fuel from you, both positive and negative once again. He of the three is the one who is content to respond and meet with you, not that it will get you anywhere at all.

Tempting as it is to want to contact the narcissist when you have been discarded and he is in a new golden period, you will get nowhere. He has someone new now and wants to focus on her. You are an irritant, an annoyance, a reminder of failure or in the case of the Greater something to toy with further for the purpose of gaining fuel. Instead, use the period whilst the narcissist is distracted with his new plaything to build your defences, gain understanding and prepare for the hoovers which will be following down the line.


107 thoughts on “The Immediate Aftermath

  1. NarcAngel says:


    I am not insulted and I never expect support of my comments so it’s all good on my end. I was just curious about your initial response. Thank you for understanding and responding.

    1. Empath007 says:

      Thanks NA I appreciate your response too. And I admire how you are such a confident speaker who has engaging conversations.

  2. NarcAngel says:

    No reaction is advised in the case of a narcissist (and that is not always followed here either in the case of interlopers and antagonists), but that does not mean we cannot address the temporary bad behaviour of say a misguided normal. The door was left open. The person could apologize for the way they introduced themselves and enter into discussion as I pointed out. If their concern is for those here they believe to be in danger they would want to clarify that rather than leave insult.

    1. Violetta says:

      I actually think it’s interesting that HG does post comments like that, instead of weeding out all things not adulatory. Alright, here’s a criticism. Is it valid? Is it expressed as a sincere warning, or is someone trying to get a reaction? If they’re trying to get a reaction, are they just nasty trolls, or are some of them hurting from recent narc abuse and lashing out in all directions?

      Maybe Tudorites can’t figure it out from the first post, but the follow-up–or lack thereof–usually settles the question.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Indeed. All part of the education provided here.

      2. NarcAngel says:

        Exactly. HG puts it all out there for us to examine. I find the different empath reactions and responses just as interesting if not more so. Also – not everyone who makes such an entrance is a narcissist or troll.

      3. truthseeker6157 says:

        Agree Violetta, I was surprised when I first saw Star’s comment. I suppose I expected HG to moderate it out. It says a lot that he doesn’t. I’ve not been here that long. Maybe when I have, and have seen more comments along a similar vein, my attitude will change. I call it as I see it but if this is a regular thing, I’m likely to see things differently.
        That’s why having a mix of readers with varying lengths of time on the blog is such a good thing. It also adds credibility to the effectiveness of the material available here. It isn’t just HG alone that works, it’s the support of the others that have already utilised the material that makes a difference too. I thank HG when I take a step forward, I should thank those already recovered for staying to comment too.
        As I’ve said, it’s just a nice place to be. I had a rough week last week, wasn’t doing too well at all. Readers really tried to support me. NA cracked the whip ha ha. I need that occasionally. All bases covered here.
        The city of Leicester and surrounding areas was locked down fully for the second time today due to rising covid infections. My narc lives just outside the area but works within it. I am struggling to stay no contact. Have been on and off the blog all day. My email is messed up so I can’t even subscribe to comments and new articles at the moment. That’s bugging me too. Think that’s it, moan over.

        1. NarcAngel says:

          It’s a silk whip.

          1. truthseeker6157 says:



      4. Kim e says:

        I agree. If the reply/remark is completely off board I figure it is a newbie who’s ET is skyrocketing and they are just plain old pissed off OR it is a “Pam”. Usually after another 2 or 3 posts/replies from this person you can tell the difference/
        If it is a Pam I read the reply, laugh, shake my head, refill the wine glass and move on. IT is like NC on line!!!!!!

  3. NarcAngel says:

    I’m sick and fucking tired of people coming here and assuming that people here on the blog lack the intelligence and insight of those who have arrived to “save” us all from manipulation with their superior assessment skills. That only “they” can see the intention and that it’s not in our best interest. We are clear on HG’s Intention and we are here because we have been elsewhere and determined that there IS NO WHERE else that we have consistently had our experiences validated with such accuracy and have benefited from the information provided to move forward, and to even be able to pay it forward to others in our exchanges with one another here. There are MANY testimonials to the successes if one cared to look.

    It’s good to have some skepticism coming in and most of us had it too, but trouncing in to tell us all what a bunch of lambs we are to slaughter when we are actually strong intelligent people who have recognized a problem and found a viable solution here that works for us Is just insulting.

    Thank you oh Angels of the order of Higher Intelligence and Assumption but we got this. Enjoy your free and erroneous information elsewhere.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Ka-boom, bravo!

      1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

        Dear Mr Tudor,
        I want to know “many others better then you”
        Who are these many others and what are their names ?
        Luv Bubbles xx 😘

        1. HG Tudor says:

          They do not exist, as you know!

    2. Witch says:

      But what if they are right and we are being manipulated?…. I’m starting to think “HG” is not even his real name!

      1. casleighmay says:

        Personally, if HG wasn’t entirely who says he is it wouldn’t matter to me. He has helped me and is helping me get over decades of family abuse from narcissists and I am learning to become the person I was always meant to be. Right now (and I don’t believe this for a minute), if HG was a student sitting in a basement doing this for fun it wouldn’t matter at all to me and I would want to shake that students hand. Why? Because I have followed his advice and seen massive improvements in my life, I am not the same trapped person I was before HG advised me. HG’s work is incredible no matter who he might be and I would be enormously grateful no matter who he was or whatever his motivations were.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thank you CM.

          1. Kris King says:

            I just found this website today and can’t stop reading what he\she is writing about that I am going thru right now in my life. I am finally escaping a narcissistic after 30 years. It’s one of the hardest things I have ever done.

          2. NarcAngel says:

            Kris King
            Welcome. I had the same reaction in that I sat straight up and could not stop reading. Disgust but also relief that it finally had a name and the confirmation of my experiences. There is a lot to read but as you do things will become clearer and clearer. You are in the right place for help in escaping successfully.

        2. Witch says:

          It was a joke btw. I already know HG Tudor is a pseudonym. I continue to be here for all the reasons already mentioned.
          But now I know the truth… people here really think I’m that dumb LOL!! 😭

          1. Renarde says:


            We didnt. I got it. And I know you’re not dumb!

      2. NarcAngel says:


        They can only be right for themselves. It would be more productive if the approach was something along the lines of: I have (or does anyone) have concerns about the effects of being here, and invite discussion (and we have had those discussions amongst ourselves) instead of swoopIng in to assume we have not, and insinuate that we’re a bunch of half wits who haven’t investigated these other avenues that are touted as “better” for us and found them not to be. As it stands, the way they approach it just makes me question their motives and discount their input as self-aggrandizing rhetoric. Not really a smart approach so why would I take their counsel?

        Btw- this is not one off behaviour so not directed at this person in particular. It is a comment about the intention and effect of the approach of those like minded.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Correct. The manner of the arrival and comment speaks volumes.

          1. Empath007 says:

            Bit isn’t a large part of what we learn through your work is to try not to react to people who want reactions ?

            I can definitely understand the urge to correct someone who is just … wrong. It’s natural and human to defend ones position. I do that all the time. It’s one of the reasons I am here… to learn when to leave things alone.

            However, I really am just trying to understand the logic behind getting upset over some faceless person swooping in and saying a negative comment and it being upsetting ? I’m just not understanding what’s so upsetting. The internet is full of trolls and they aren’t going anywhere.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            E007, in essence you are correct although it bears expansion.

            I do not regard people as getting upset by the comment but rather they are responding in order to correct the individual because

            1. They object the inaccuracy
            2. They wish to exercise their own voice (having often been denied the opportunity to do so) , and
            3. They want to ensure that new visitors see such a comment is inaccurate and are not put off.

            An individual responding once and each individual doing so once is fine. It is getting involved in a “war of words” (if that occurs and sometimes it may not) with an individual who soon demonstrates they cannot see the inaccuracy of what they are writing (witness Star´s behaviour a few weeks ago) that becomes futile.

            I do explain to people that the counsel of perfection is no reaction, however, if you must, state your truth once and then walk away (the book Escape explains why some people need to do this and find it effective so I will not repeat the reasons here).

          3. Empath007 says:

            Thanks HG. I understand. I’m not trying to take anyone’s voice away. Just as I said to NA there is actually a term for it.. it’s called trolling and I just think it would be beneficial for people to recognize what it is.

            Also her sentence started with “I’m sick and fucking tired…” my own interpretation of that phrase is that the individual is upset. That may not be how it was meant but it’s hard to decipher tone over a written message.
            Interpreting it the way I did just made me want to add my two cents about trolls. And about practicing what we learn here which is to not react.

          4. HG Tudor says:

            As always, you are naturally welcome to articulate your observations in your usual constructive manner which of course contrasts with the manner in which the OP did.

          5. Empath007 says:

            Thanks HG.

            I also don’t see the original comment that sparked this conversation ? Is it in this feed ?

            I’m not sure who OP is… as I see people referring to original comment said by a Jacequline.

          6. HG Tudor says:

            Yes, Jacqueline.

        2. Witch says:

          I agree with you completely I was being facetious, just in case anyone takes my previous comment seriously

          1. NarcAngel says:

            I thought that to be the case as I note your sense of humour.

        3. truthseeker6157 says:

          I see your point NA. You all know how much I value this place and the time that goes in to it.
          Would I announce my arrival on this site in the same way as Jaqueline? No I wouldn’t. However, we do not know the back story here. People get severely messed up by narcissists, this we know. They react in different ways. They are confused, hurt, angry and no longer know where to go or who to trust. I don’t know which way is up some days.
          People will lash out in that frame of mind. They will behave in ways that are out of character. If you can’t lash out at your own narcissist why not lash out at the most prolific narcissist on the internet?
          I’m not condoning it, at all. I hope you know that HG. I’m just saying sometimes there is more to things than first meets the eye. The post by Jacqueline feels different to that one a while back where that nut job came in claiming to want to buy shed loads of books. Can we just leave the door open here please and see how we go?
          If Jaqueline is willing to discuss and learn more, then great. If not and I’m wrong, then I’m sure we are all big enough to deal with it.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Indeed TS6157, hence my observation about waiting to see what the reaction will be. I recognise that some people turn up raw and throw some weight around and when they realise how useful this place is, they in effect calm down and apologise. She is entitled to express her view and others are entitled to express their views and similarly that they are fed up of people arriving and behaving in such a manner. Let us see the response, if any.

      3. Kris King says:

        He is right.

    3. Empath007 says:

      My basic attitude towards this is : who cares what random people on the internet think🤷🏼‍♀️ It’s nothing to take personally. Especially when the individual hasn’t developed “relationships” with other commenters.

      1. Empath007 says:

        To add… I don’t know if you have an Instagram account NA … but the trolls are out there 😂 it’s the Internet… they target anywhere they feel
        They can. Best thing to do is just ignore them. You don’t teally need to come to your own defence. There’s a community of people here who really appreciate you and your contributions. They are the ones that matter. There’s never not going to be trolls on the internet blowing their smoke. You’re only feeding the wolves by reacting to it. Just my opinion.

        1. Leigh says:

          Empath007, her original comment is down a little bit in this feed. She was responding to a comment from 2016.

          1. Empath007 says:

            Hi Leigh! Thank you I just found it :). I don’t find the comment upsetting.

            I think if that person is intelligent they will see past their anger. Sometimes you have to interact with the “enemy”
            In order to get ahead in life and to develop an understanding. Kind of like when the police will pick a criminals brain… the more knowledge they have the more they can predict moves… be better at their job. And if Jacequline doesn’t want to ask HG questions she’s missing out on an opportunity for learning !

            But I doubt she’ll comment again. Lol.

          2. Leigh says:

            Hi Empath007, I agree with you that most of the time its best not to react to these comments. In this case though, I agree with NA. I think it needed to be addressed. Not even so much to address Jacqueline but for other people that are new to the blog so they know that what she was saying was inaccurate. If someone new came to this blog and saw her comment and there was no reaction from anyone, they may have left and not returned. Then they would never get the help they need.

            With all of that said, I agree with you that she was probably just looking for a reaction. She certainly got a ton of them!

          3. HG Tudor says:

            So far, so predictable with regard to the failure by JL to accept accountability for her comments.

      2. NarcAngel says:


        If you don’t care what people on the internet think, then why did you feel the need to address me about my responding? They said what they wanted to say, I said what I wanted to say. You apparently felt only the need to address my opinion.
        No reply needed. I just thought you might investigate your own action/intention.

        1. Empath007 says:

          I suppose I see a difference between people whom I would interact with on a regular basis and then those that are one off interactions. I recognize “trolling” as it’s been termed for what it is. And (for me personally) it generally doesn’t make me react. Only because I see it as trolling. Where as – if someone I react with regularly or who is in my life – in those circumstances I feel the need to come to my defence. Or I take it perosnally and feel hurt etc.

          I wasn’t trying to be rude to your comment. Just simply pointing out that people who blow smoke like that are generally trying to gage a reaction and it may not be best to give them one. That trolls are common place on the internet these days, it should be recognized for what it is and ignored.

          It’s just my personal opinion. You don’t need to subscribe to it.

          1. Empath007 says:

            Agreed NA. You do you and I’ll do me. It’s easy to interpret “sick and fucking tired” as a person who is upset or distraught by a comment. I appreciate the clarification as it’s difficult to interpret tone on a written message.

          2. NarcAngel says:

            It was more of a “wait a cotton pickin minute…” response for future reference.

          3. NarcAngel says:

            I do have a question for Empath007 if she is willing to discuss it and under the understanding that I am not angry or trying to be combative but rather learn from it. If not – I understand and the matter is closed.

            It’s this:

            Do you see any correlation in your response to question my reaction rather than that of the person who entered being offensive, to the type of empath you are, or as being indicative of how you may react in a relationship with a narcissist over other types of empaths?

            Meaning that you decided the person was a troll and so what, that’s what they do. You let it roll. But you wanted to address my reaction to it. It reminded me of all the times people give a pass to the narcissist and put it down to something else going on with them but will address the friend who brings it to your attention.

            Some empaths are endlessly patient and thats what keeps them attached so long to the narcissists. Others will take a fair bit and then enough us enough. Different empath types different fuse lengths, and/or responses. A Super for instance may not take as much devaluation as a C.D before acting or escaping. Neither better or wrong – just a difference.

            Remember – some of us have been here a very long time and are on a lot more threads than others so we will see this more often. It is not the case that I am offended by everyone or every little thing and have said nothing in other cases. In this case I chose to.

            I just found it interesting that you were more concerned about my response.

          4. HG Tudor says:

            Fair observation.

          5. Empath007 says:

            Hi NA,

            In all honesty I was just trying to offer a different perspective on the situation because as I said… the way I interpreted your tone, I thought you were angry/upset. And I was trying to point out sometimes certain situations it’s OK to recognize what’s happening (in this case the trolling and not an effort to open an engaging discussion) and ignore it.

            It’s not that I think it’s bad or strange you responded. As I said. I am the kind of person in my own relationships who also responds… but part of why I’m here is to get better at not being so reactive. Recognizing narcissistim for what it is… and doing my hardest to avoid another relationship with one.

            I’m a co dependant. So I can actually easily react quickly. I was also with my narc for a short time ( 1 year) so I’m not really the put up and shut up type.

            I was t trying to insult you by reacting to your comment. If I did… or you felt not supported in your cause I apologize. That wasn’t my intent. It’s just I truly don’t believe that individual will be the type open to conversation or the kind of person who’s worth engaging with or trying to change their mind. Perhaps I’m wrong…. but I was just trying to offer a different perspective.

      3. NarcAngel says:

        No one is upset as in frothing at the mouth or ruining their day. You are projecting a voice or tone onto my comment. I’m seldom ever angry but people assert that I am because I am direct. I said sick and fucking tired as in disgusted that they feel entitled to say what they like and believe poor little weak us don’t have a thought in our heads to respond with. Well we do and occasionally I like to remind them. If you don’t mind then you do you and don’t respond. We are very different empaths and respond differently. Neither is wrong.

        1. Mercy says:

          Sometimes it just feels good to express that your sick and fucking tired when your sick and fucking tired.

    4. Bibi says:

      Good points, NA. I often come here and discuss my low feelings (as I have lately) b/c there is no where else I can ‘get it out’ so to speak, unless I depress the shit out of my friends. Even they don’t want to hear about narcissism or narcissists.

      One is safe interacting with HG, as opposed to contacting some past narcissist for reassurance. I think we have all told one another to come on here when you feel like you need to go in that direction.

    5. Anm says:

      People are experiencing cognitive dissonance right now in the world. To sooth the discomfort, people have gotten so riggid with their thinking to push back.

    6. blackcoffee30 says:

      I agree with NA and what others have said. Even if the detectors are for “entertainment,” they are of value in assessing my motivations.

      This is also the only place I can come where others understand what I have been through and focus on real, logical solutions.

      I will also say this again: NOWHERE else have I found support for IPSSs. I suffered too, but only found judgment and shaming elsewhere.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Indeed BC30, I have repeatedly received emails and comments in consultation from those who are IPSS and DLS explaining that

        1. Nobody else has addressed the position
        2. Nobody else has explained the dynamic in such detail
        3. They have often been judged and attacked elsewhere for holding such status (I will wager those judging will be MRNs)

      2. Empath007 says:

        Such a good point BC30. It feels like there’s no winning as a IPSS because the general public just refers to us as “whores who had it coming”. It’s an extremely misunderstood difficult position to be in.

        My narc has not had a proper IPPS since 2014. He operates only with IPSS’s and makes them feel like they are his girlfriend whilst juggling 2 or 3 at a time. I think it works becAuse for my generation being “casual” is just accepted as normal. And the whole concept of a relationship has changed. No one wants “labels”. So we’re left an IPSS and ain’t no one feeling sorry for us.

      3. K says:

        You deserve all the support and understanding that you can get. I was an IPSS before I became IPPS and most of the commenters are very understanding which fosters a safe environment. This place is a game changer and I am very happy that you found narcsite.

    7. Unbothered says:

      *munches popcorn*

      1. Seriously. Pass the popcorn. Once we are at tit for tat amongst ourselves, it gets most interesting.

    8. Violetta says:

      That’s just you, NA. I’m here because of the Creed Viking and the pale blue cashmere socks and that lovely baritone which is produced by the voice-altering equipment purchased by the first profits so the rest of the proceeds could go to the Health Department-violating collection of cats.

    9. SoldierOfLuv says:

      Well put 👏

      We got this .

    10. Leea says:

      Narc Angel,

      I have been everywhere searching for help; HG has provided me with a clear understanding of what I was dealing with for the past two years. He has been the only one who has given me insight and a true understanding of HOW to escape this madness. It’s like the difference in a pastor—some pastors can preach you happy (It will all be okay!) while some preachers will preach for you to get up and be responsible for your OWN salvation! HG holds us accountable..we are the only ones who can save ourselves from his kind!

      The comments against HG are “so frivolous “!

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Thank you Leea.

  4. Why? says:


    What does it mean when the narcissist breaks up with the IPPS without a new IPPS embedded but they have a shelf IPSS in the fuel matrix? Do they always only break up with the IPPS unless they have a new IPPS?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      See the 5 Disengagement Triggers (by the way, you may as well keep the same name, rather than keep changing it, I know it is you asking the questions under different names!You are always welcome to ask questions, understand the basis of the response is governed by what is explained in the rules.)

      1. Why? says:

        Yeah, it’s just that the biggest reason of all is that the narcissist knows that I look at your work, consulted, and etc. So, if i were to explain a situation between the narc and I, I don’t know if he would seek revenge or something if he would look at your website and the comments. But even if I just ask a question just out of curiosity/education purposes, I still get afraid that he will think something and seek revenge. And sure, I don’t want to be annoying to you either with my questions. And there is indecision of what name to keep. I find narcissism very interesting though. I majored in psychology as an undergrad, but I couldn’t work in that field everyday though.

        I guess I will pick one name but I don’t feel comfortable putting my real name for the reasons I just said. Would a narcissist seek revenge on their victim if he saw that she was asking you questions in the comments section?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          1. If you consult with me there is no way he will know what you are saying to me and what I am saying to you.
          2. He is more likely to pick up on your questions posted to the blog than through consultation.
          3. I understand now your reason for different names, on that basis feel free to keep using different ones if you wish.

          1. Why? says:

            1. Yeah, I always thought that.
            2. This is what I worried about.
            3. Good. Idk, maybe you’re right. I’ll stick with Why? and see how it goes.

  5. Bridget Stewart says:

    Hello again HG, its almost like your my ex except your giving all the answers honestly, its like a dream come true really. is it possible for Mid Range types to derive any type of fuel from inanimate object associated to grandiosity attained through say, projected success in sport through dedication and practice? And I suppose you have noticed that I am playing the game too by giving a droplet of fuel for the answer…wink wink. You have these disorders downpat dont you haha thats why its easy to like you, you are honest from your perspective. I get that

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello Bridget, indeed I do. Yes we will derive fuel from using an inanimate object as part of a triangulation with a person, a trophy or a medal is apt to be used in that way.

  6. c2gemineyes says:

    HG I have a question that maybe u can answer for me. My husband (we’ve been together 3.5 yrs) shows characteristics of all 3 schools u describe. At different times and situations. Even if the situation is similar and has repeated itself, he has acted in a way of each kind of way of the 3 different school types. So is that common or is there a way to differentiate which of the 3 he may be? Also, Ive asked u b4 & not received any answer about if uve released a book describing the 3 different kinds of NPDs. Thnx

  7. noah80 says:

    About this topic my narc acted as a Mid-Range. Is it possible that for some aspects a person can be Greater and for some other aspects he/she can be Mid-Range?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello Noah80, yes, some of the traits of a Greater may manifest in a Mid-Ranger but never the awareness. That is always the preserve of the Greater.

    2. Melinda says:

      My question is does a Lesser graduate to a Mid-, and then a Greater as they hone their skills?

      1. HG Tudor says:


  8. Hi HG. I’m new to your site, and am blown away by your writings. My off and on again love all through high school hovered me back after 27 years. I just recently realized what he truly is. What happens if you have discarded him and are only met with the silent treatment? Also, is there any point when there may be true and unexpected guilt? I found out there were/are two other women, but he wasn’t fully able to function sexually with me. He was my first lover when we were in high school. It was three years before I slept with him, and he cried when we did rhen. This time, we started to but he physically couldn’t. Also, his daughter told me he had bought new sheets for me. She said it was the first time he bought new sheets in 20 years. Given how many women were being rotated through his bed, I’m glad he got new sheets. I guess I’m just wondering if there is ever anyone who might in some way hold a form of respect to the narcissist? Thank you so much. I appreciate your thoughts, and am so happy I found your site!

    1. Melinda says:

      I respect my ex in a couple areas. No one is all bad or all good. Isn’t that the narcs world–either white or black? What attracted me to my ex is his brillance, Mensa status. He has incredible an incredible, interesting mind. We would talk for hours. I’ve always been fortunate to be able to interact with famous, brilliant minds, but he blew me away. But I didn’t know he had other plans for me. Once the conversations became boring to him, he had other diabolical plans for me . . . . I love him and it saddens me that he is so damaged. What he’s done after his damage occurred is his responsibilty, but as a child he had nowhere to go.

  9. HG,
    Since this is now cyber sale week are you giving discounts on consults? Or throwing in a free gift with purchase?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      No discounts. Those who’ve had them will confirm I’ve read extra material ahead of the consults without deducting reading time from the consult time and allowed extra time where applicable without additional charge, but I tell you what how about a No Discard Guarantee with every purchase?

      1. Whoa…fury? No Discard Guarantee seems legit. Is it written in invisible ink?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Nope, you just read it!

          1. I want it on paper, in my hot little hands, signed by you, notarized, delivered to me, tertiary source #001, in person, by yourself. 💙

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Make the purchase you get your guarantee.

      2. Love says:

        I’d like to use your services Mr. Tudor. But I’m afraid I’m already over my last narc. So we might not have much to talk about… Unless you provide other consulting services.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Maybe the discussion could ascertain if you are actually over him – a degree of stress-testing if you will, not aimed at troubling you but rather ascertaining the parameters.

      3. Love says:

        Mmmmm, stress testing. I like.
        I want you to trouble me 😉

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Easily done, you know what to do.

        2. Unbothered says:

          Are you married or single? Just curious.

      4. Love says:

        I did just stop seeing my last therapist.
        It is an interesting challenge to see if you can break me. Do you think you can?
        I’m sure she’d appreciate me going back to her.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I am not in the business of breaking people on this blog, that is not its purpose.
          I am able to do that outside of the blog.

          1. Jacqueline leigh says:

            You help the ” broken” while you purposely “break” others in your life.
            You know this about yourself and refuse to change this behavior HG or other narcs ….
            And you make your money on those you break, hurt- with your consutations….
            One big fat manipulation hg

            Your only helping your self…your only intention…

            Many others BETTER then you out there to help heal those effected.

            You are not the best
            Not sorry for your ego

          2. HG Tudor says:


            1. Nobody who gains assistance from me has been hurt by me.
            2. I am entirely clear about why I provide this assistance. Unlike many others.
            3. My work is the most effective, the emails and testimonials demonstrate this, repeatedly.

            Nobody is being manipulated. Nobody is forced to use my work.

            Not sorry for your inaccuracy.

          3. K says:

            Jacqueline leigh
            You couldn’t be more wrong.

          4. truthseeker6157 says:

            Hi Jacqueline,

            I see your point. HG freely admits to being a narcissist and readily communicates from personal experience. This can be tough to reconcile. There is a distinct split however between the behaviours HG might manifest in real life And the way he conducts himself here on the blog.

            People usually come here first to ask questions, things don’t make sense, their experiences just don’t fit into the normal relationship mould. These questions are answered honestly by other readers or by HG himself. All comments are moderated so if incorrect information is given then HG will correct it. Therefore the information you receive here will always be accurate.

            If your own personal situation is very involved then it is logically Going to be difficult to get to the bottom of it just by being on the blog. That said, if you stick around a while and read the articles you will likely get a degree of clarity to your own situation. At this point you might decide to take a consult with HG. It is simply an option. You could stay on here for months and benefit from a wide range of information, have questions answered and not pay a penny. How many hours work does it take to read and moderate the comments on here do you think?

            In many ways the private consultations or the Detector Consults simply speed up your understanding. A definitive answer to your own personal dealings with a narcissist (or not) through to a greater understanding of your own personality make up. Why is it for example that you have been so damaged by this relationship as compared to others you have had? How can you avoid finding yourself in a similar situation going forward?

            I have used the Narc Detector, Empath Detector and Trait Detector consults. I can testify to their accuracy, the time that has gone in to their creation and application, together with the positive impact all three have had on me. All therapists charge for their time. I am struggling to see why HG should be any different. Furthermore, it is very likely you would have to undertake numerous therapy sessions to gain the same insight you would get here in just one consult. These consults are entirely professional, businesslike and safe. If they hadn’t been, trust me, I would have no issue calling HG out on his own blog.

            It is a strange concept, I see your point. Communicating with a narcissist to escape your own narcissist. Think about it this way, who better to answer your questions about a narcissist than another narcissist who has no skin in the game?

            HG is what he is and makes no apologies for it. There is no denying that he has created a safe place for people here on this blog. Safe to vent, safe to be upset, safe to discuss, challenge and to debate. Many of us have drawn a lot of strength from being here. You think this is how HG gets his kicks? Doubtful. He would get better quality fuel from a ten minute chat with his mother.

            I know it seems strange Jacqueline, stay a while. Read the free articles and accompanying posts, then maybe see how you feel then. You might be pleasantly surprised by what you see.

            Either way, good luck to you.

          5. Leigh says:

            Jacqueline Leigh,
            Who cares if he’s a narcissist and makes money on his services. Doesn’t a therapist make money when we go to them for help and more often than not, the therapist doesn’t actually help because they don’t understand. Mr. Tudor understands, because he is a narcissist and that’s why he is actually able to help. He has helped so many survive from the narcissistic abuse, including myself. I came to this blog 14 months ago while I was in the middle of yet another silent treatment from my narc. This blog saved me. Reading the articles, comments, logic bulletins and books helped me to never go back into that formal relationship. To say he is only helping himself is a bold face lie. I don’t know where I would be without him.

            For the record, I’ve never done a consultation because I don’t have the money and not once has he ever said that I can’t use the free information on here. This blog, his articles & all the comments are accessible to anyone, all the time, FOR FREE.

            Mr. Tudor, I will forever be grateful for the work you’ve done on this blog. Thank you!

          6. HG Tudor says:

            You are welcome Leigh and thank you for your constructive observations. Now, do you think Jennifer Leigh will

            1. Remain silent
            2. Revisit the observations and evidence and recognise hers was an incorrect knee jerk response and respond accordingly , or
            3. Respond with a further attack.

          7. Violetta says:


            I’m guessing she won’t choose #2.

          8. Leigh says:

            Mr. Tudor, so far she has remained silent. I’d like to give her the benefit of the doubt though and hope she sees that her original observation was incorrect and that this place truly is a place of sanctuary for many of us. I fear that won’t be the case though. She’ll probably either remain silent or go on the attack.

            I think Empath007 may be right. It may be better not to react.

            There’s a lesson to be learned here. That’s what’s so wonderful about your blog.

          9. Renarde says:


            A very well thought out and empathic response.

            You are tinker than I would be been.

          10. Renarde says:

            Kinder! #Truth

          11. Renarde says:


            Correction is necessary.

            *You know this about yourself and refuse to change this behavior HG or other narcs *

            Putting aside Hgs own behaviour, the second part of your sentence is woefully inaccurate. This displays, a complete lack of understanding about NPD.

            Which begs even more questions, have you read ANYTHING on here? Suspect not otherwise, you wouldn’t have made such a basic howler.

            So why are you here and where have you come from? If its evangelicalicise.

            Very intriguing.

          12. truthseeker6157 says:

            Thank you Renarde.

          13. Violetta says:


            If you’re lurking, read Fuel.
            You don’t want to spring for it, ask your local library if they will order it. I’ve been on this site for months, and I really didn’t get it until I read Fuel.

      5. Love says:

        And there is no loophole around that rule?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          It’s not a rule but rather an outcome of the rules.

      6. Love says:

        Well that’s too bad. I was looking forward to it 😔

      7. B says:

        Re the consults, I had scheduled one initially in part as a way to contribute for all the content Ive enjoyed reading, but I really found talking to someone so sharp offered great perspective so I booked a few more. I don’t normally comment much on blogs, but wanted to add my recommendation – v insightful, professional, speaks from lots of experience 🙂

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thank you B.

      8. Melinda says:

        LOL No Discard Guarantee . . . I like your sense of humor. This morning you caused me to laugh . . . I now have hope I will laugh about this entire experience someday . . . the drama will fade and someone else in this shitty little town will be in the forefront. I will hold my head high once again. And tease the up and coming Greaters, as this town has more narcissists per capita than any other place I’ve lived! I learned how to get fuel from narcs . . . and now I’m learning to walk away from my ex . . . seems my replacement didn’t work out . . . lucky girl dodged a bullet. Fool me once . . . . Good day my brilliant Mentor. To take what some would coin unfortunate into an asset is admirable.
        I do Human Design readings for $200.00 an hour. Because I am a perfectionist and very good at what I do, I spend approximately 8 hours in preparation, plus their foundation reading, often going over an hour, remain open to questions, I understand I’m never going to get rich doing this. In fact, comparatively am in t yhe hole moneywise!

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