What Do You Need To Know?
Naturally everything has to be about me but in order to reinforce the fact that I am such a generous and magnanimous chap, I do like to let you join in as well. I still have much to share with you about the manipulations and machinations of my brethren and I. There is plenty to tell you about my ongoing interaction with the good doctors, the origins of what I am and the conflict that is to come with MatriNarc. The articles that await publication and which wait to be written are burgeoning. Nevertheless, if there is any particular aspect of the narcissistic dynamic that you would like me to expand on I would be grateful to receive your suggestions. Have I touched on something you would welcome some expansion on? Is there an unfulfilled part of your questioning mind that keeps gnawing away? Is something still not making sense to you and you want to know more? Perhaps there are further revelations you have unearthed about your own experiences and you would like my observations? Maybe you want to hear more of a particular type of behaviour? Whatever it is do let me know and I will give careful consideration to writing about the topic for you. I look forward to your suggestions.
Thank you
HG
317 thoughts on “What Do You Need To Know?”
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Hi HG, thanks for your excellent material on your blog and on youtube. I feel more validated and grounded than ever before and can also see the intimate connection between narcs and empaths in a very nuanced way.
But most of all – this material has given much more substance, than any so called professional (psychologist/therapist) has ever managed to do.
I have three questions:
Why are so many psychologists/therapists so incredibly clueless or downright stupid when it comes to narcissism? Its as if they really cant connect the dots. Ive met 4 simpletons who claimed they knew but definitely did not and one who I in retrospect actually think was a narc. They should be experts, but I know many laymen who know extensively more on this topic than they do.
What is the real percentage of narcs in the world?
Is narcissism nature or nurture or both?
Thank you Vixen.
1. I suspect it is because there is a wide range of matters that psychologists/therapists have to address so they cannot be an expert in everything. I think with some it arises from the behaviour being euphemised (see No Good Advice) but I must admit I do find it staggering just how many stories I have heard from readers and have witnessed on certain websites etc, where it is missed and not even considered.
2. Nobody will know because there is no empirical evidence. I would suggest anecdotally it is 1 in 6.
3. I form the view it is a combination of the two.
Hi HG !
I live asking questions! I probably don’t always ask the right ones but oh well..
Do you still Hoover your Ex wife? If so, how does she react?
What if 10 women who you were in prior relationships with all came into your spheres of influence within a month.
Would you Hoover all of them?
Do you have a best friend?
I do, subject to Hoover Trigger and the Hoover Execution Criteria being met.
She provides positive fuel.
It would depend on the Hoover Execution Criteria being met as to how many would be hovered.
Not any longer.
If all the criteria was met for all 10 you would Hoover all of them?
Yes.
Would it be a narcissistic tactic to deliberately infect someone with illness? Such as making themselves ill through not sleeping and going out, and then using someone else’s toothbrush to give them bacterial infections?
I just remembered how my chronic throat and viral infections cleared up instantly after leaving home where my matrinarc was constantly ill.
I also had an experience with a romantic partner narcissist where I had repeated genital infections (not STDs that were picked up on a doctor’s test) but skin irritation which lasted the length of our relationship. I’m wondering if he had researched how to give me an infection.
Both of these people are possibility comorbid with sociopaths and I’m wondering whether these were deliberate and might fall under narcissism or sociopathy.
Yes it would.
I’m furious. I spent my teens thinking I was dying.
But how do you give someone an infection in their genital skin area?
There are many different ways.
Narcissists or sociopaths?
I feel you do not want to give information for information’s sake.
But continue toying with people.
I literally feel as though a narcissist’s experience of other people in life is masturbating off their lives and raping everything they have. It looks disgusting, it feels totally violating and now reflecting I wish I had never spent time with any of the sickos I know. They are gluttonous, fucking gross slugs.
Man candies?
Thanks very much. Your information is helping me in reading situations with my narc friend. Hope your holidays and stockings are filled with all the fuel you want and need. Have a holly jolly Christmas.
Same to you and thank you.
Good Day HG. Do you get overwhelmed? If so does it cause depression, anger, or anxiety or perhaps the need for more fuel? Thanks very much.
There are times when one might feel overwhelmed in the sense that the world is coming crashing in as a consequence of low fuel levels.
As accomplished as you are, (and I believe you about that, though by the means of wickedness), do you understand that the cause of your evil actions and thirst for fuel is because you have a very very low self esteem ? That is all that there is to it.
Hello Vashti, would you explain to me why you believe my self esteem is very very low. I am interested to learn why you state this before I respond.
Confident people are way too into themselves to go out of of their way to seek fuel (reaction = in the narcs’ mind validation) from other people. If you were happy with yourself, that would as it should, enough fuel for you and you would not posses so much jealously. It is one thing to play the game, it is a whole ‘nother to play it unecessarily.
Have you noticed the disgusting way narcissists twiddle their fingers in the air? Some of them literally look like a paedophile ready to molest someone. Usually it happens when they are talking about something they feel powerful about or food. They make disgusting hand movements like “snatch and grab” when there is something they want. All I see is creepy invasive greed.
Dear HG, what do you recommend for identifying how we are carrying the narcissist’s disowned traits afterwards?
This is a catch for the empath, we do this out of love and then find afterwards they have stolen our coping mechanisms to forge ahead and we are left with implanted problems.
Do you think we’ve stolen those mechanisms or eroded them?
That is not my question.
:p
I don’t think you can erode someone’s coping mechanisms. They are formed to survive and so will be ingrained in the target. You may however prove to them using and displaying those coping mechanisms around narcissists is not a good idea, and that the relationship with you isn’t possible.
I’m interested in your views on understanding what we are carrying that has been implanted during association with love and caring such as fabricated weaknesses.
Thanks much for responding HG. I mean intimate relationships. Once they begin approx how long is honeymoon phase. Does this depend on behavior of empath as to when you begin abuse or do you have a general routine.
Your writings today are so helpful. Am giving myself your books for Christmas and I considered them an amazing gift to myself.
Again thanks much.
Hi Janie, the golden period varies, usually between 6-18 months, can be shorter, can be longer, but it usually about that. No I do not have a general routine (although I suppose viewed objectively some will say that I do) but it when the fuel becomes stale that devaluation commences and that is not set in time, but does tend to happen within the time period I have just mentioned. Thank you for obtaining the books, you will find them of us and you are most welcome.
So “fuel” is really your identity construct. Not so much confidence or self esteem but facade..
Fuel is what powers the construct and yes the façade.
Oh OK… finally this makes sense to me! I had interpreted fuel as a kind of ego boost or sense of satisfaction but it is much more than that, much more outside of what I can imagine. So THAT’s why they are peddling so hard! I always admired just how much they managed to secure and achieve in life. And it wasn’t low self esteem driving them, it’s bloody well constant manufacturing. That would exhaust me!
And did I read correctly that without any fuel sources, you would experience psychosis or long-lasting depression?
You did read correctly.
All of us have been dating oblivion.
Good lord.
Dear HG, I’ve just had a job interview that is of a wonderful salary and great opportunity for career growth. However the team is very small and the interviewer and future boss (I’m quite sure) is a greater narcissist.
They are keen for me to take the position however I’m unsure of what to do.
In the interview he seemed jealous of my professional background and tested me a little, putting me in hypotheticals and demanding information it was impossible to have.
I’m wondering whether to proceed and try it or just escape now.
Is it best to leave it?
Hello AVS, you were there and I was not, but I would exercise some caution before reaching a determination about what he is because
1. You were with him for a short period of time; and
2. Interviews are meant to be challenging (at least the ones I conduct are)
I am not saying you are wrong, but it might be a little early to make a determination. That stated, if you are correct you have the tools to manage such an individual and there are rewards to be reaped in terms of salary and career growth. I know you operate in an industry full of them so who is to say you might pass this up and then find the next one has a boss narcissist and is less appealing salary/growth wise? Furthermore, strike back and do what suits you. On balance I would suggest you proceed.
Dear HG, thank you for responding so promptly as I have to give an answer tomorrow.
In response, I agree that it was short however as I have only ever known them, I am quite sure from the way he spoke and changed things constantly that he is one. He even has a lovely voice such as yours that despite my best efforts found dangerously hypnotic.
My concern is my post traumatic stress which after so many had me near psychosis after last ex and so I fear being in an isolated situation with only him directing the show, and he will likely violate my human rights without surveillance and I loathe repeating the situation.
Either I am unlucky or most bosses are likely to be narcissists having lacked the morals in order to win any shoot out and dominate the hierarchy. I suppose, one can only sense an impending loss by investing a little first (probation period.)
Thanks again.
You are welcome. Your analysis may well be right, but a stated by another commenter, you will keep bumping into our kind and withdrawing and evading is not always an option, so now you have the tools you can spot and address in the right way which suits you.
Great advice HG and I agree. We can’t go through life in fear of every narcissist we might encounter or base our life decisions around them, as they are everywhere. Like HG said you have the tools to handle them. Just don’t date or marry one lol. Take the job! You got this!
HG Thanks for sharing with us . What has been the shortest time in a relationship before abuse began and the longest period before abuse. Again Thank You.
Hello Janie, do you mean an intimate relationship or any relationship that I have engaged in?
Unless of course, HG wants me back on here in crying hysterics for his amusement later….
Are you sure you’re not a politician I’ve interviewed? You’d be a star?
That would be telling AVS
Please dear HG, do share your godly expertise… 😀
I am doing, every day AVS.
And now HG is withholding information because he knows of the anticipation of the answer and it gives him power. And he may then deny this accusation and say he is very busy, and act nonchalant. And now I have pointed this out he may think “what do I owe empath plebs anyway?”
I know this game so well.
Withholding information about what?
Gotcha :p
I dont know what the rest of you think but I appreciate HG and the time and afford he put on this blog. To help us. Yes he Is a narcissist to but I am grateful. So to make a mockery of this blog piss me off. Ok??!! I get no fucking answer from my narc…Do you? So please act a bit mature and dont act stupid. Ok…
Good point Chilliy and I agree 100 percent. Answers will never be given by the narc involved in your life. I know for me and the way that I am that I will never be satisfied with the answers others try to give me. I need to hear the answers from a narcissist, one of his kind as they are the only one’s who know how they think, how their mind works, and why they say and do the things they do. HG was the only real one I could find willing to offer such answers. Trust me I did my research before I opened up with my questions.
So here are your only two choices;
1.) Ask HG what you would like to know then patiently wait for your answer from the Narcissist you are asking. You have to remember that he is indeed a narcissist. He has not claimed to be anything other than what he is with his readers. So if you expect him to be any different than you are not in the right place.
2.) Seek your answers from an outsider such as a family member, friend, therapist, or even the answers you try to come up with on your own. Just keep in mind that these quick answers are coming from one who thinks differently from a narc. These answers are based on speculation only.
Everyone is diffrent in how they find healing. You just have find what works best for you. Choice #2 may work for some, but it is not an option for me. I need real answers with out a doubt. The hard brutal truth that can only come from the narcissist himself. These other answers that come from an outside source I simply will not believe. So I pick my battles and I wait for my answers on narc terms because it is worth it to me not to beat myself up thinking I could have done something differently.
May I suggest while you wait for your answers maybe read some of HG’s pervious posts and comments. You might find the answers you are waiting for. More than likely he has already gone over it at some point in time. For a narc to constantly repeat himself is pretty amazing in itself.
Well put B, thank you.
You are most welcome. As a reader and student of your work I am obligated.
Now I know your facts, I can’t help but analyse faces and memories. It was always there. It’s in the body language. I can’t stop looking.
As for computers perhaps you can email me.
Those darn memories will get you every time. Sometimes I wish I could be hypnotized so that all memories of him could be erase, but then I wouldn’t have learned anything.
Hi B
I totally agree with all you say. Yes indeed he Is a narc but at the time the only narc that give me any anwers😉 I learn so much from his blog. Learn how my low lesser narc think’s. HG know what he talks about and Its very intresting to read. And you seem like a very intelligent person to 😀
B…Today I really hate my ex narc. I hate all he done to me…The lies…the abuse….The fury inside him for no reason at all…His mind games..His smile…Oh he can really smile and look so proud every time he hurted me..Every time he scared me…His was so proud of him self…His friends ask my friends about me…We decided my friends say that them and me don’t talk anymore. This Is not just hard on me..My sweet friend’s suffer two…And that breaks my heart even more. At the time my narc dont speak to me..I am at this time discarded..First time…I know he can come back but I pray to God that his new supply,girl’s or drugs are something he will never abandon and keep see me as nothing to have ever again…That he forget me…For good…I am tierd of being scared. Tierd of jumping every time someone comes to my door. Maybe he come today?? And the next day the same thoughts are on my mind. Maybe today..Nightmares..Every night….Not knowing when or If drives me insane…When…when…If I am lucky…When will be never B 😔
I am so sorry dear Chilliy. I do understand how hurtful it is. I do not fear the narc in my life so I can only imagine how that must feel. It is very helpful to understand how they think and why they do the things they do. HG gives us the knowledge and tools we need to protect ourselves we just have to use them. Keep reading even if you don’t think a particular blog applies to your situation because what I have learned is just because your narc doesn’t present a particular trait now doesn’t mean they will not show it later down the road. There have been times when I thought I was lucky because my narc doesn’t do that… wrong he does, has, or will. I just didn’t know he was doing it at the time because I didnt know what to look for. They can pretty sneaky like that. Or maybe they haven’t done it yet, but when they do you will already be prepared to see it and know how to handle it. I don’t know about you, but I never realized before how complex they really are. So much to learn! It sounds like you do want him out of your life and ready for no contact. I believe I would too if I had that fear in me. I do not worry about mine ever becoming a stalker type because his drinking takes priority over being sober enough to show up at my door. I say I’m lucky now…
I will add to my other post in some other page I can’t find now that I’m not sure if you are aware, and it will be to your annoyance that although you are trying to hide the ‘creature’ – an empath like me sees it immediately. It’s in the intonation of the voice, the posture, what’s left out when you talk about yourself. Having been born into that and looking for only love in that, the creature was my early point of reference for love and why I tend to see it and minimise it these days.
I had no idea how hard-wired it was. I only know I see it immediately when I meet a narcissist and tend to earn their trust by treating them well from a distance. “You don’t have to be here you know, spread yourself around.” And I’d say, “I’m enjoying your company” and then they would stare and reflect and try to squeeze out a thought of something in my life that might be important to me. I never knew. I was just having a good time and felt I could be myself with them because we both have the curiosity, observing nature and the mischief.
So responding to your worst nightmare mentioned in the interview, I think sometimes narcissists don’t realise how much we pick up. You can read the story of the mother in the tightening of the throat and raising of the pitch, you can see the father that ignored them in the slumped shoulders and downcast eyes, you can see the golden child in the pidgeon chest and cheesy grin.
AVS, I agree with a lot of what you say, however there is no one narc alike. Just like anyone else they are their own person with their own personality and they use their traits differently in a way that suits them. Then of course they fall into a category, the lesser, mid-range,and greater. Like you I thought I could see it immediately, although I didn’t know what a Narcissist was until my last relationship because he is the one who fooled me. He fooled me because he wasn’t a Greater. I can spot them right away and I stay clear of them. Like you said it is the way they carry themselves, speak, etc. The Lesser are the ones I have been drawn to. Mostly out of pitty or wanting to save them. So you think you can spot the “creature” they keep hidden from you, but what if they don’t hide the creature from you? Your first date is with the actual creature himself? You see that is were I was fooled. No I didn’t know what a Narcissist was, but did know how to spot anything that was fake (narcissist) and I knew to stay away. He was upfront with who he is. He told me of all the narcissist traits he had shown to his ex. All the horrible things he did. He did not sugar coat anything. Being lied to my entire life, my thoughts at the time were “finally something not fake. Someone who is real with who they are” so I did not run like most would. Of course I was lead to believe that was in the past and what he thought was fun or important in a relationship at that time changed as he got older. I’m not as crazy to stick around if I had thought he would do that to me. It is like he pulled a reverse card on me if that makes sense. Very clever of him if this is true. Because he did not hide the “beast” it makes it hard for me to believe that what we have is fake. How could it be fake if he was so real? He surely is not a narcissist he just needs love in his life and I’m going to give that to him. I will not let him go. See where I’m going with this? I would think it would be very risky for a narcissist to pull off his mask on the first date, but what I have learned from HG is that they research their targets before they make their move (still so hard to believe). I am sure it was not hard for him to figure me out and took that risk. Or I could be completely wrong with that theory, but that is why I keep reading. If only I had the knowledge I have now I would have known that what he was telling me from his past were all traits of a narcissist and if I had known what a narcissist was I would have known that those traits belong to him forever. Yes we like to believe that our strong intuition can guard us from all the narcs out there, but I guarantee that there will always be that one out there who is able to slip through the cracks.
Hi B,
I’d be the same pattern as you although tend to relate to them as friends with only a short romantic period. I would be near mid range or greater. I see the deflated fuel levels and the creature although they would tend to project the worst of the creature to the world or another person or “the media”. I previously understood these projections to mean a sense of helplessness they felt in the world and irritation about that. I never thought they were confessing!
My last ex involved a former “friend who turned out to be a leuitenant and that I can never forgive. I trusted them with my dreams and they very nearly broke them. The boyfriend showed his creature as I was in hysterical tears (I never get hysterical, ever) and he had locked me behind a door and said he’d leave me there. His voice was out of a horror movie. I’ve never heard a thing like it. I am still in a bit of denial that it happened!
The initial bond really grows from them giving advice about previous narcissists and encouraging me to disregard the experience.
I think perhaps we often all need that strength or calming nature about them? Someone who doesn’t care isn’t going to be anxious like us, right? But for all the wrong reasons.
My biggest lesson is my poor judgment comes from my narcissistic mother’s tactics. Each day I think of a new tactic I had thought to be her own random character. I’m trying to get used to acknowledging this creature without obsessing and trying to control it. I think I did well considering I haven’t seen love before. I’d like to get back to living and being carefree
That’s how most of us empaths are “gotten”. We are so embarrassed for them that we pretend to like them more than we do to relieve them of humiliation, because they are sad. Then they say “see you’re in love” or “you need me” when it was completely false. I wish I never pitied any of them.
You have a good point there Africanvioletiste as I lost total respect for them and their behavior along the way, but stayed because all the reasons known to us and stated by HG, like being in ‘”love”‘, never giving up and just trying eveything to make it work and hang in there… especially when there’s kids involved.
I can relate, but will not make the same mistake twice
**Chronic narcissist fault of overestimating their place in other’s lives and then being shocked they’re short of that status because they cannot stand being irrelevant
They activated a video on eradicating hope of the narcissist changing. I thought that was weird. Somehow they have come to the conclusion of my hope. I don’t have hope, but am watching and learning everything I can to understand. And laughing over how stupid and sad ways they spend their lives.
How do you do that (with the laptop) so I know what they have access to?
I could not say in a public forum.
You won’t say.
Hey there,
Do you want to be cured? Do you want to feel and actually give love? Do you know what past trauma happened to make you the way you are? Lastly, would you ever travel to South America to take part in ayahuasca ceremonies? I’m curious if drinking ayahuasca over a prolonged period with a proper currandero could vanish the false self you’ve created, heal wounds, remind you your true nature.
Hello Katie, I do not want to be “cured” but I am willing to see where this treatment leads to.
Yes I do.
I do not know what ayahuasasca and currandero are, so I shall have to look them up, but I am guessing that they are mind bending in some way.
The New Yorker refers to it as the “drug of choice” for the “age of kale” LOL . Be careful of spiritual tourism and make sure it’s legit. As Katie said, a proper shaman for sure. Hard to find without a good connect as many are tied with tourism.
Besides, they will see your silk suit and say, hmmmmmmm…give me your wallet and I’ll show you “love”
That type of spiritual experience really depends on your intent, the meaning you put in it and the intent of the shaman. I’d love to do it myself though too scared I’d get conned. It’s an interesting idea though, Katie! You perked my ears! Maybe some shrooms or cacti, HG? 😂
Don’t do drugs kids and stay in school.
Lol of course😂 Like I said earlier in another blog, I really don’t play with them and smoked the first time at 36 and only a few times after.
But did you inhale?
lol 😂 my name is Indy not Billy
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Bktd_Pi4YJw
Are you sure it is not Cindy?
This is a huge lesson for all of us that how a person makes us feel is not necessarily who they are. That goes for everybody.
My matriarch could make you feel as toasty and safe as on Christmas Eve, after a few seconds with her. I wonder what else she was doing.
It’s a brain conundrum for us, to imagine such a foreign experience while in front of them with our feelings. I find reading HG and putting myself in their shoes without my ego and emotional judgments is the only way to imagine it.
I definitely think it is genetic. If you take my family as a case study, you have two narc grandparents with eight narc children. Collectively they had 35 children who were all narcissistic except me.
I was later in school and had a group of 15 narcissist girlfriends and all of their families had the condition.
Unless everybody has a trauma they are running from, to me environment doesn’t make sense. It would be there from birth.
In which case both of these ideas should stop you empaths viewing them as a) able to mean what they are saying to you and b) able to be healed. I have spent so long watching, listening to various degrees of narcissistic people and I always grasped I was completely foreign. Your experience is always done distant idea in another universe, talented they may be at describing it and getting that correct.
It is interesting you do recognise tactics. I think I succeeded in playing my family back to a large degree, by being unpredictable and reverse-role playing. I used fact to degrade them, as proof of their low status in a situation, and this seemed most effective in causing narcissistic injury and me gaining more respect.
Or, being secretive, or, denying access to something.
My hero.
Does the narcissist keeps tabs on their ex once they have escaped? Or do they forget you are there? I know there are other sources of supply, but he deleted Facebook after he read my final don’t go away mad, just go away message. Then I heard from his dirty little secret. She said he told her he wanted no one and nothing after his primary source caused an uproar. (He lied and told me he was single.) I know the DLS is keeping tabs on me through social media, even though I live abroad and am no direct threat. Still, I can’t shake the feeling he may be doing the same through fake accounts. When we were in high school, he would pretend I didn’t exist, but when he came back he knew everything I was doing ( from what I wore, to wear I stood, to who I was with.) I knew it then, but recently, 27 years later, he can tell me word for word what was said, what I wore. I don’t know. Maybe I am paranoid. I just feel like he keeps tabs. Thank you for your thoughts and guidance. You are my dark guru.
Is there an instance where you just know there is juicy fuel simmering beneath, waiting to explode, yet, is more challenging to extract…but you stick around for it to come forth?
Hello My Arcanum, I would yes absolutely. Not all of my kind would do though, especially if fuel levels were running low.
Good day HG! You’re a busy man today. You are on all my mobile alerts. 🙂 Thanks for finding the time to respond.
Although I’m clearly an IPSS, and receive alternating months of highly positive attention, my question derives from the days my Narc clearly wants to see me upset. (He’s being neutral this week because I hit him in the mouth while playing). What he’ll do is call my name, gain my eye contact, and it is as if it is a staring contest for a brief 20 to 30 second. Of course, I’m sure he can sense, through my eyes, it is much more hurt emotions brewing beneath. And then there is silence, which I’m sure he is giving someone else the golden period, but I’m silent during this time as well. But then after a few month, usually three, he returns (benign) asking for an apology for cutting him off and ignoring him. And when I cave in to him (still addicted to him) he is like a baby sucking up all the loving attention.
Would he just be waiting for the negative fuel to blow or just really addicted to my positive hoover fuel?
Good day to you My Arcanum and thank you for your politeness.
He knows you will cave. He wants your delicious positive hoover fuel edged with relief and laced with joy.
Yes…I’m still that sucker.
Thank you.
Pleasure.
Hi HG 🙂 I was just reading a conversation between two of your posters; an Empath, and a Narc. As I read each of their opinions regarding one of your “Narcissistic Truths”, I kept finding that I agreed completely with both sides, especially the Narc’s side. I know I’m considered to be a Super Empath, and that’s why I will never go out of my way to hurt anyone, EVER, but why is it that I would completely agree with the Narc’s logic?
Hello BH, do you mean that you understand the narc’s point of view or is it that you both understand it and think it to be right?
I really needed to read that. Thank you.
You are welcome TP.
Just so you are aware your other request has been actioned.
Thank you, HG. I hadn’t seen. My head is all over the place and I have much work to do thanks to your educating me. So many revelations due to what you have shared. Words will never be enough to explain.
Understood.
I’m drawn to you for a very big reason, H.
Feel free to expand TP.
I’m currently not at liberty to explain. Perhaps we will discuss it one day. I hope we do.
Understood. By the way, that’s my tactic, give it back!
lol Anything and everything for you, H.
In the particular situation I read, I understood the logic and thought it to be right. I’ve also found myself thinking that way, in other postings I’ve read, as well.
I would add – and I’m interested to know whether you agree HG – revenge is pointless as the wins and losses don’t mean anything to them in the end. They haven’t had the experience so it has no value.
I find it so difficult that all my relationships involved machinating to get reactions from me. Lies, abuse and then abandonment.
Revenge for me would be forgetting, which I cannot do. To “unstick” myself from my pain, I try to expect less of life, and deploy some of their ways of living. Free, bold, open (with wisdom) and the decision to leave any situation that doesn’t work, without guilt.
Revenge comes in different forms.
My definition is as per my book of the same name.
For others it is going no contact and moving on.
You have devised your own method and if that works for you, then it is entirely valid.
I am in agreement with your definition, H.
Good.
Very good.
Hi HG, I think my response to your question got lost in the mix. It’s not a big deal because I know you’re extremely busy answering so many questions, but I’d still like to know what you think. In the particular situation I read, between the Empath and the Narc, I understood the Narc’s logic and thought it to be right. I’ve also found myself thinking that way, in other postings I’ve read, as well.
If you do a movie, may I please be the one who runs away and escapes? Oh wait, I’ve done that.
Is it going to be Clash of Narcs?
Hello HG. Since I also grew up under a matrinarchy and I spent many years trying to overthrow the despotic matrinarch (silly me, she seems to be more popular amongst her subjects/objects than ever), I am really interested in reading about this upcoming conflict with your MatriNarc.
ME! I need to know who the hell I am. I understand him, but I don’t understand myself! There is something not right with me. Why do I like the abuse? Why do I like the controlling? Why do I like being submissive? Why do I want to be bonded to him. Why do I want him to never let me go? It’s not that I have a low self esteem or that I don’t think I can do better, I actually want this, but I don’t want the full package. I don’t want the long silent treatments and I do want trust. I know him inside and out and I feel there is much more to him than just being a narcissist. He has told me every dark secret within him. I really dont think there is anything I don’t know about his past. He has never hidden any of it from me. Is this because he doesn’t see anything wrong with it so he can talk about it so freely? Even on our first date he told me things that would have most women running and never looking back. But I see more than that. When I look in his eyes I feel the pain he hides. When he tells me stories I feel like I’m there. Why am I so happy when I am physically with him, but in misery when I’m without him? I know I need to let him go and I keep telling myself that. I try to convince myself that I’m normal and that I really don’t want him. I imagine what a normal relationship would look like and I just see myself bored and unsatisfied. What is wrong with me?? I’m really no better than him. We both have serious issues, they are just different is all.
I feel your pain B 😔 Its totally crazy..The fuck so much with our brain that I wish they could feel some damn pain themselves..It’s no fare..NOT FARE!!! I wish they where normal. My good this Is a fucking bad day…Many hugs sweetie
HG you said you resent the empath due to being chained, being chained is a perspective and seen as a weakness.
What if you decided to see it as a strength instead?
The attraction between the two is a connection, in a sense both are chained to one another.
I am going to jump to something you wrote in one of your books.
I believe it was Lelise, it girl, was that revenge?
Sorry it is something i have wonder and my thoughts jumped.
How about a movie HG. ‘Beware the Narcissist’….or something. Would be a great feature film, if you could write the script…and I believe you could do it with your eyes closed. How fascinating it would be to watch….not having to live it, but watch. Just a thought..
I am dabbling in something alone those lines but it is not something which I can commit a lot of time to at present. Do you see a role in the film for yourself?
Hi HG. Yeah maybe. Just put me down as the gullilble girl at the bar. You know the sort. Then change my charactor into the one to get her revenge…..right at the end!!
So thats an easy beginning and ending…..now for the middle part…hmmm ohhhh the dramas!!
I do. When are auditions? What role would you like me to play?
movie is such a great idea! but would have to be a trilogy at least to give the audience a real taste of the life with a narcissist. … and it would have to be brutal like the blog. ..books…and life. .. I wouldn’t need to even pretend…
Perhaps a mini series..In the US we love a good British, high drama serial.
Excellent idea!! I’d watch!!! I’d be in it too! Lol
Good greetings, HG. I am interested in why you emphasize your narcissist side more than your sociopath side. Is this because of the terms for the therapy you are having to undergo have mandated a focus on your narcissist aspect only, or is it something that has to do with your own preferences?
Thank you in advance for your answer, and for your other one-of-a-kind brilliant insights displayed in all your fascinating articles about our kind, which I keep coming back here to enjoy.
Thank you Triad. It is because the need for information on narcissism is more widespread, more prevalent in society and I have a wider exposure to narcissists (family and work) and thus share more of this element. Of course the sociopathic elements appear in all writings about me personally and also work about the Greaters.
You’re right (always), that’s so true! It seems that narcissism, comparatively speaking, is is a lot more prevalent. Before your appearance there was hardly anything on the Internet about narcissists, nothing valuable, as you wrote in your No Good Advice article. There were only judgements from people who are not even remotely qualified to judge us.
Whereas there are several decent sites on the sociopath side, especially sociopathworld, and a couple of sites written by psychopaths that are also quite good. Even then, not as good as this site in parallel comparison, and hardly ever updated. You and your writings, and the dynamic way you engage with your readers, are very much appreciated here.
Thank you Triad.
I like your new picture Triad.
Thank you The Punisher!
thank you H.G. for the opportunity to ask more questions. and so it goes…
do ALL narcissists seek/require the same level of fuel to sustain themselves and thus feel whatever constitutes a normal day in the life of a narcissist?
for example, would the lesser narcissist strive to acquire and/or maintain fuel N the same way a greater does?
since the lesser is unaware of what he is and what’s driving him, will he be content with no supply for longer periods of time?
Hello Traci,
1. No the fuel levels differ dependent on the nature of the narcissist.
2. We also obtain fuel in different ways. The Lesser relies more on “brute force” and has fewer tools in his Devil’s Toolkit, we Greaters are far more considered, subtle and Machiavellian in our approach.
3. No narcissist will be content with no fuel at all. A Greater will have been able to gather larger amounts of fuel and therefore where he is fuelled he can endure a longer period without fuel, compared to say a Lesser.
H.G.,
thank you for your answer; it provided clarity. I have another request for you.
could you elaborate more on the inner workings of how the narcissist sees us (his intimate partner(s)) as an extension of himself? and if you don’t mind, could you also delve into the sexual aspect of a somatic narcissist using his intimate partner’s body as masturbation tool??for whatever reason i haven’t been able to completely wrap my head around these behavioral traits.
thank you 🙂
Hi Traci, you are extension of us because we must control everything around us, the environment and other people and the easiest way to do so is to subsume you into us. This is also because we have such a sense of entitlement and the fact that we do not recognise nor respect boundaries. You are an appliance to be bolted on to us, for our use and thus we draw your fuel into us, acquire your resources for our benefit and in addition acquire some of your traits to pass of as your own. To achieve such assimilation we cannot regard you as something separate to us. As for your second question and to save my fingers I direct you to my book Sex and the Narcissist.
So, with that said, HG, in regard to answer #3, can a Greater become lazier, especially with age, at acquiring his fuel because he’s gathered larger amounts?
I’m speaking in terms of; if the wife is the Primary Source and I was the Secondary Source and he discarded me, could there be a likelihood that he didn’t have (or wouldn’t go find) another source, and instead, chooses to be lazy and rely on the mostly positive fuel he had gathered from me? Is there a chance that he’d be too lazy to do much in the way of acquiring fuel, even if just for a few weeks or months?
I think a Greater may find he needs to do less to gain fuel because he has established channels in place and relies on gravitas, status etc which has been afforded with the advancement of age and also the trappings of a lifetime of success.
Also, were it a trauma, it would not be so specially replicated. For instance, somebody who missed out on getting affection wouldn’t hide one of a pair of somebody’s shoes in the same way thousands of your kind do. It is a very specific set of behaviours that doesn’t seem to deviate much.
Our character influences the impacts of what happens. If there isn’t one to begin with then my theory is the disorder is genetic and set and expresses itself among narcissists in almost identical ways. I do believe abuse is caused by gene/carrying parents.
You just described the ex-MN in your response to me. Thank you!
You are welcome BH.
Have i missed a book coming out HG?
There hasn’t been a recent release if that is what you mean.
Also, will Revenge be made available in paperback? I’d like to keep it in my night table like it’s my bible.
It already is TP.
Perfect, thank you.
Have you already written about the parental hoover?
No but I will be doing as part of the Keeping It In The Family articles.
Thank you. I’ll be needing it.
HG, now I’m having time to read all comments on other articles and I got my answers! 😀 Thanks!
HG let me clarify my question about humour. You are very witty etc. but my narc doesn’t laugh during comedy movies, even at very hillarious scenes. Rather, he laughs at videos of people pranking others, literally laughing out loud. I don’t find those as funny as he does. Can you explain the narc sense of humour please? Thank you.
First of all thank you for the compliment. It is likely during the comedy movies he is actually jealous of who has written the film, who is delivering the lines etc because it is not about him and therefore he does not find them funny. With the pranking, because some kind of humiliation has befallen another, that appeals to his sense of superiority and he will find that far funnier.
What a great question, Ptsdafternarcabuse and such a clarifying response for my understanding HG. You see, it was my ex’s humor that got me hooked. I loved the banter and wit. However, I too, noticed this difference when he observed humor in others. For example, when watching a comedy of some sort, he seemed to always be one second behind my laugh. He laughed, but it felt like it was because I was laughing that he laughed or keeping a cover. He, too, liked to watch others fooled in pranks (Impractical Jokers) and fooling the public with magic tricks the best(Carbonaro Effect). He actually used it to justify lying for sport, he actually said this.
Well observed Indy, his delayed laugh is a manifestation of the Mask Carousel.
The Mask Carousel, wow. Yes, that makes sense. Letting that concept sink in a bit as this kind of hurts to know. Not sure why. I guess it reiterates what I wish wasn’t so. So, are the vacant eyes that look cold part of the shift in masks too? A slip, a delay in shift? Where do I find more information on this process?
Correct. You can read some more about it in A Grimoire of Narcissism.
Thank you, I will get it tonight. 🙂
Marvellous.
Hey, So, I had some down time and I got the book 🙂 This is definitely a great primer for those not familiar with your various terminology. An amazing collection of terms, I am impressed. And your definition of the Mask Carousel is exactly what I saw. Can’t believe this has been observed and described as something specific. Amazing.
So, I want more details on this phenomenon. Do you have more on this or a resource of literature on this (like research on this? Gonna explore this for sure)….I ask because I often perceive micro-expressions (though did not know exactly what they meant at times and that is my learning process). I also work with various populations and this stuff is key to understanding certain things (outside of narcissism).
My you don’t mess about do you Indy?! I have a few articles on the pipeline on this subject.
Wonderful! I will look forward to them. And, hey, your book was only $2.99, I had a break and an itch to scratch 🙂
My generosity knows no bounds!
***waves banana palms while bowing***
PTSD, maybe he does not laugh just to spoil the good moment you are having watching the comedy. My sister’s ex narc husband used to do it. I think he was jealous and envious of my sister having a good time. It was also control and devaluation. I saw it and felt it when I was visiting them and we would be having a good laugh with a film. He did not have to say anithing, his attitude said it all: you are stupid and inferior for finding that funny.
Do you have think that narcissists make up a good portion of people in polyamorous relationships? I see from my ex’s involvement in this lifestyle and eventual marriage to one partner who revealed themself to be a narc, as a perfect setup to control without commitment and the partner isn’t even aware! They think it’s a just a successful poly relationship. My ex’s constant cheating now appears to me that there is no way he could commit.
Hello Laura, whilst one cannot state that all polyamorous relationships are made up of narcissists I suspect that we are over-represented in that regard.
His constant cheating will clear evidence of being unable to commit, was not because he could not commit, but rather the infidelity is symptomatic of the need for alternative fuel, the need for further validation and reinforcement of his perceived omnipotence, lack of accountability and to emphasise his superiority.
Mr Tudor
I have just recently started reading some of your books on this issue. As a women who has, for too long, suffered under this disorder from my husband.
It is liberating to read about “your kinds” thinking and behaviour patterns and especially now, that I can get some clarity on how to respond if any. We do have 2 daughters who had to endure the viciousness and violence if their father and are quite afraid of him mostly.
Now what I would like to know from the master himself, why did you decide to go to therapy and stick with it? And what happened to make you realize you wanted to go. I am in the process of reading all about my great escape.
Regards
Beverley Fourie
Hello Beverley, thank you for reading and I hope that you continue to do so.
I attended therapy as a consequence of an accommodation between my insistent family and my desires to achieve some of my own aims (namely secure my inheritance and avoid certain criminal and regulatory investigations (which will be achieved if I continue with it). I stick with it for the same reason but also because I do find it interesting as I learn more about my self. Furthermore, I enjoy the sparring with the good doctors.
i think I noticed something actually very evident, HG.
When devaluing/discarding me, the narcissist told me who the new supply was, by the phrasing of the putdowns.
“You are so skinny; you really should eat more” (She is more curvy)
“You are such an immigrant!” (She is a native)
“Why is your hairdo so flat?” (She has almost frizzy hair)
Is this common, that the putdowns sort of indicate who the new supply is?
Hello CB, indeed it is. It is all part of the split thinking. She is curvy therefore she is good, you are skinny therefore you are bad, thus for the purposes of devaluation it makes perfect sense to criticise you for not being like your prospective replacement.
Ah, the black and white thinking. Thank you!
Hello HG,
It is so nice that you wish to write about what we would like to know! Thank you. I would like to know about:
1. The creature
2. The precipice
3. A narc’s sense of humour. Why is it so different?
4. Identity- why is it that you borrow character traits from others when you clearly have your own? You have written about doing so in order to gain approval, but why do you do this when you have your own brilliant character traits?
5. How did you realize you don’t have emotions? Do you recall having them at some point and this led you to realize that you no longer have them?
6. Narcs and memory- my narc has a poor memory. I read on psycforums from other narcissists that they have trouble remembering things because there is no emotion attached. Sam vaknin also has trouble with memory. Yet you say your menory is excellent. Does it depend on the narc? Is there any pattern with memory?
Being on your blog feels so comforting to me. Sometimes when i miss him, i come here instead of texting him, and feel closer to him as a result. If i am not with him, at least i am learning about him. Thanks again HG.
Hello PTSD, first of all it is a useful device to use me as a substitute so you do not contact him and suffer the various drawbacks associated with doing so. Secondly, thank you for the various suggestions
1. The book of the same name is in hand.
2. This will be dealt with in The Creature.
3. I have made a note to write an article.
4. As above.
5. We do have emotions. Not as many as you, but we do have them.
6. I have made a note to write an article on this subject.
HG, I have a couple of questions. Did you ever have a gf who escaped you and you thought “game over”, there’s no way to manipulate or seduce her anymore? And if so, did you simply back off or did you try to hoover her again? I’m asking these questions because I’m convinced my ex was a greater (based on what I learned from you) and I truly hope I will never hear from him again.
Yes. I did not back off but hoovering her was impossible. I would only ordinarily back off for a time if there was no prospect of gaining fuel and this would invariably be with me because I have no way of contacting that person. Thereafter it is dependent on the Hoover Trigger and the Hoover Execution Criteria.
HG~ Surely there’s a place in your heart that does not want to go through life from beginning to end without having at least one significant other journey with you~ even if in a non-traditional way? I’ve been off and on with my Elite/BPD for 8 years now (including marriage and divorce) and once again, he’s trying to Hoover after I have been able to remain one year of no contact. My Elite is without a doubt the most handsome, successful and well to do Narc there is… however I think you have him beat… your articles are AMAZING and I think you just might be the one who could go toe to toe with him and win. You are BRILLIANT! Please tell me your opinion~ Do I (A) refuse a (once again failed) promise of commitment but instead suggest to meet him for a weekend every few months out of town to satisfy the naughtiest of naughty pleasures (B) refuse sex of any kind but be the one to accept him for who he is, offer him unconditional love and be his safe place since he’s never had that~as well as be the one to bury him since he can’t sustain a stable relationship and will probably be alone or (C) Continue to keep it no contact and think of myself as his supernova. Please do tell!
Hello Lolo, thank you for your compliments and of course I would win! When you mean in a non-traditional way, what do you mean?
In terms of your suggested ways of handling him, it is difficult to state because I do not know enough about your dynamic together. Is he a Greater Elite and if not, what is he, as this has a bearing on how he will respond. How do you feel in terms of being able to handle him and moreover the impact it has had and may continue to have on you. I need to understand more about you in terms of your capacity to deal with him and what might happen if you choose the particular option.
Hi Tudor how are you?
Hello Clary, I am excellent well thank you for your kind enquiry.
I was discarded and never hoovered? Why?
Hello Anna, probably because there has been no Hoover Trigger and the Hoover Execution Criteria has not been met. Yet.
Thank you for your answer, but could you specify more on the hoover execution criteria?
I have written about this in Hoover Time, Anna, so is there something specific about the criteria that you would like to know? You will also be interested in the book “Will He Hoover Me?” which goes into more detail about this important and key area.
HG do you think you could remotely activate someone’s laptop using your mobile phone and play a video via youtube?
Yes.
I’ve def got some questions for you. Wanted to check 1st to see if you receive this email or if I need to submit through your website. Thx.
Sent from my iPhone
Hello Laura,
If you have a lot of questions for me the best thing to do is to book a private consultation (see menu bar of main page of blog) and if a sprinkling, do ask them here.
1. The last article you wrote about how we are just in love with an illusion, I stated that I have a hard time with that because I still see parts of “you”/ “my ex” in the relationship. Parts of you are there. I know you can pretend to be what we want and to like the same things but I can’t admit I fell in love with an illusion if I don’t believe it. I said I wanted a book about it. Your analogies are the best out there and speak to my brain. I have read many of your books. Is there an analogy out there similar to the one like the emotional sea or can you work on one?
How are you ever “you”?
Is that why the doctors ask “who are you”
2. Are we going to get the doctors perspective on your progress? A note from the doctors? Lol
3. My therapist has a question. What’s your lieutenants work load like and how and what are they rewarded with.
4. If you know what you are and that makes you a Greater, is that it? I know you can then fall in the other categories, but I kept looking to place my ex in your articles and she overlaps some but since she knows,is that the final answer? On Pinterest you can see the boards that people search on and I did see some that were headed “Narcissist/Sociopath”. I believe she know a lot about it.
Looking forward to 24 hours in your brain and the rest of the empaths and codependent series.
I’m still interested in that hand.
Thank HG
I’d like to learn more about the covert narcissist.
Hello Ana, I don’t use the term covert narcissist but this is mainly the Mid-Range Narcissist. There are various articles concerning the MRN and his or her responses, there will also be a book in the fullness of time dedicated to this particular school of narcissism.
These are a few questions that have come to mind during my time reading your books and blog:
*How does the Greater N know what they are? Is it innate awareness or is it learned?
*Aside from becoming an author and an expert on narcissism, has anything significantly changed in your life since your treatment? Has your relationship with your mother changed?
*I have a friend whom I thought was a N, but as I’ve come to know her better through a working relationship, she shows many traits of an empath and even a co-dependent, as she sometimes seems overly concerned with the well being of others. She has accepted constructive criticism and has been open to having calm discussions. I’m confused. Do u think that is the point, and she is a N wearing many masks? My Nardar is sounding off.
Thanks for your input
Hello NN and thank you for the suggestions. By way of response
1. I have made a note to write about this.
2. I have become much more aware and have also had the pleasure of interacting with thousands of interesting people through this work. No, my relationship with MatriNarc has not changed.
3. I would need more information. The brief description has me leaning more towards empath save that a Greater could exert enough control to accept constructive criticism and feign empathy in order to gain fuel.
Thank you for your reply. Could you tell me the best place to read about the characteristics of the Greater N?
There is material in Sitting Target, No Contact and Smeared and then in various articles throughout the blog.
Fascinating HG.
Hello HG, thank you for extending us this opportunity. I know, I know, I was really skeptical when I came here. Coming to a site like this one vulnerable wasn’t an option for me, but I think you probably understood that. I see this value now that everyone speaks of.
I would love to know more about marriage between two narcs. I started wondering about my parents when I noticed borderline traits in myself, but I couldn’t accept it until I came here and saw examples outside of the research I’d been reading. I couldn’t stop making excuses and writing it off as me overreacting. I can’t understand the dynamic between my parents and I’m also having a hard time classifying them. They’ve been married over 30 years and I only heard them fight once (my fault). Everything was so subtle it almost didn’t exist. I don’t feel as negatively towards my father as I do my mother. He was better at seeming like he cared. I’d love to hear your thoughts on this type of relationship.
Thanks to your site I’ve also recently allowed myself to admit that I was ensnared last year as well. This is the second greater I have been with and both admitted sexually desiring another man, though it was never acted on. It was completely random both times and I can’t really see how it benefitted either of them. I’d love to hear your thoughts on this as well.
Can I have one more? Love and I have both suggested that there is some type of attraction to an IP treating the narc in an abusive way similar to that of their mother. If I haven’t already asked too much your opinion on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for everything, H.
Hello TP, thank you for your kind words and I have made notes of your suggestions for the basis of future articles. Could you expand on your final point however? Do you mean that the IP is abusive to the narc because the IP’s mother was abusive to the IP?
Thanks Punisher for mentioning that! Mr. Tudor, you state narcs are drawn to empaths for their loving, nurturing, caring, and honest personality…. Basically the complete opposite of the cold calculating character of a narc. It is said a mother is the first love of a child. If your mother is a narcissist, then she has shown you no empathic traits. Do you think that deep down you resent empaths and truly desire narcissist abuse from your IP?
Your mother set the mold on how a woman is to be.
Hello Love, interesting question. We are drawn to your loving, nurturing caring and honest (amongst other traits) personalities not for those items per se but because they are indicative that you will provide excellent fuel, you will hang in there, you will not give up easily, you will try to fix us and thus stay and so on and so forth as explain in Sitting Target. Thus, the desire for those traits is not borne out of wanting to experience them as traits in themselves but rather for what they mean in terms of the provision of fuel and ‘stickability’.
I resent empaths because I am chained to them and I would rather not be, because of my need for fuel and they are the best fuel providers.
I do not desire narcissistic abuse from an IPPS as this would not provide me with the right level of fuel for long enough. I understand your logic though and thank you for raising it.
“I resent empaths because I am chained to them and I would rather not be, because of my need for fuel and they are the best fuel providers.”
Whelp, looks like you need to do the experiment! Perhaps Tude Crude is the highest octane of fuel!!!
Tude Crude sounds right yet so wrong indy!
LOL it does….we all know you are a more refined grade of fuel than crude, highest of octanes.