Sadistic Streak
You could be forgiven for thinking that all of our kind are sadists. From your perspective, much of our behaviour, if not all, makes no sense and therefore it could be argued that to behave in the manner that we do must mean that we are all sadists. That is an understandable proposition. After all, if one day a person is kind to you and then the next is nasty to you when you have given them no reason to behave like that, then surely such behaviour is sadistic is it not? The behaviour has no grounding in any logic, the nastiness is manifesting just for the hell of it, is it not? Are we then not deriving pleasure from your hurt and discomfort and therefore that must makes us sadists?
A true or pure sadist is one who derives pleasure from the sadistic act. This often manifests in a sexual arena in that the act of sadism is acted out in a sexual engagement or the sadist becomes sexually aroused from the sadistic act (which may not be sexual in nature). Accordingly, a sadist may derive sexual pleasure from flagellating a bound and gagged individual. Similarly, a sadist may become sexually aroused from murdering the pet kitten of someone else.
Those of you have familiarity with my works will understand that form the narcissistic perspective, what we do is not done solely for pleasure (indeed we do not experience pleasure or joy) but rather it is done for the purposes of gaining fuel. It is our need for fuel which is the driver behind all of our behaviours because the emotional response of another provides us with the validation that we desperately require to fill up the void which exists inside of us.
The acquisition of fuel occurs in many, many arenas. It might be gaining a smile from an appreciative stranger as get in a lift with them, from the tears of our partner who is crying after we have held them by the throat and described how much we hate them or from them ecstatic groans of our lover as we provide them with orgasmic relief. In each instance, fuel is what flows, fuel is the aim and fuel is what is required.
All of our kind receives fuel from the emotional response of others. We do not feel joy from inflicting pain on you because we do not feel joy. Your pained expression provides fuel. It could be tears, it could be a smile, it could be laughter. As long as there is an emotional response then we gain fuel.
When you are hurt from our manipulations this is a by product of our need to gain fuel. It is a collateral consequence. Our lack of empathy means that we do not care that you are hurt. However, it goes further than this. The reduced cognitive function of the Lesser (and to some degree the lower echelons of the Mid-Ranger) means that not only do they not care that you are being hurt, they do not know you are being hurt. They see an emotional reaction and that provides fuel (although of course they do not know the mechanics of that operation). They cannot recognise the pain. I appreciate this will be rather hard for some people to grasp – how can he not know I am hurt when I am telling him so and he sees my face twisted in pain and the tears spilling down my face? The fact is, those members of our brethren neither care nor know. Thus when you are manipulated it is done purely for the fuel, it is not done primarily to hurt you. This is cold comfort nevertheless as the outcome remains the same. You are hurt.
Where we have a sadistic streak (and this is more prevalent with the upper echelons of the Mid-Range and the Greater Narcissist) we know we are hurting you and we do not care. The knowledge of your hurt adds further fuel. Accordingly, your emotional response which we witness provides us with the fuel (in the same way as a Lesser or lower echelon Mid-Ranger would) but the knowledge you are being hurt and we are causing this, provides us with extra potent fuel.
A sadist behaves in the way that he or she does purely for the sake of pleasure. We do not do it. If we have a sadistic streak then we deploy it in our machinations for two purposes:-
- The provision of extra-potent fuel as described above; and
- For the purposes of punishment and revenge.
Our aim, through this sadism, is not solely pleasure but rather the reinforcement of our superiority. Not all of our kind wish to punish, hence, they have no sadistic streak. The Mid-Ranger who has lost his primary source will feel fury for this transgression but he is far more likely to direct his energies to applying an Initial Grand Hoover to get you back and reinstate the golden period. He has no urge to punish you. Even if that IGH fails, he will then focus on recruiting a new primary source and he will leave you alone. There may be benign follow-up hoovers when he devalues the new primary source, but there is still no desire to punish you He may be looking to ‘win you back’ or just gain positive fuel. If this fails, he may not apply a malign hoover, but instead will leave you be before returning at a later juncture with another benign hoover (if conditions are right).
If you have been discarded by a Lesser but you keep trying to find out why he has discarded you, he will apply malign hoovers. This is not done as an act of revenge, but is rather done to make you stay away so he can focus on his new primary source and so you will not spoil this golden period by telling lies (the truth0 about him to the new primary source. He wants you deleted and the malign hoovers are a response to your interference.
If you find yourself in a situation where you know that your particular narcissist has a new primary source, you are doing nothing to enter the spheres of influence but your narcissist will not leave you alone and is applying malign hoovers against you, this is evidence of the sadistic streak. It manifests as a malicious obsession which causes you to enter the sixth sphere of influence (see the relevant section in What is Making Him Come Back? ) and then the Hoover Execution Criteria are met.
The relevant narcissist may not actually receive any Proximate Fuel from you as you are treated to these malign hoovers because he cannot see your reactions, so you may wonder, why would he do this? The reasons are as follows:-
- The sadistic streak means that he is willing to sacrifice the fuel he is gaining from the new primary source to carry out this sadistic, malign campaign against you. Usually, the narcissist will want to gorge on this positive fuel from the new primary source and keep his attention on this person, but where there is a sadistic streak, he is willing to use some of this fuel to power the malicious campaign against you as the discarded or escaped former primary source.
- The sadistic behaviour allows for the provision of Thought Fuel as the sadistic narcissist contemplates your terrified reactions and it is his perception of how you feel (even though he cannot see it and thus it is not Proximate Fuel) . Ordinarily, a non-sadistic narcissist would not bother to apply the energy to gain this weaker Thought Fuel but a sadistic narcissist will do so.
- Our superiority is maintained by doling out punishment and revenge. A non-sadistic narcissist would seek that reinforcement with a new primary source (because it is easier to gain that positive fuel from them and to focus on them solely). The demands of the sadistic narcissist are such that he requires this ratification and validation from both current primary source (positive fuel) and discarded former primary source (negative Thought Fuel and the power felt from the application of revenge).
Accordingly, when you are entangled with a narcissist, so that the Formal relationship is continuing and you are being devalued, and he exhibits sadistic behaviours towards you, this is for the purposes of gaining extra potent fuel. If the sadism occurs post escape or discard, this is done to punish you. If Proximate Fuel arises, so much the better but if it does not, this is not a massive concern to the sadistic narcissist because we are willing to sacrifice the fuel gained from another source in order to power our desire to achieve revenge over you.
Since you look at matters form your perspective and not ours, you may find it difficult to truly distinguish when sadistic behaviour is being used against during the Formal Relationship. It is, however, at its most recognisable when you have escaped us or have been discarded. If you know we have a new primary source but there is a campaign of hurtful behaviour being used against you – slashing the tyres on your car, putting bricks through your windows, posting unsavoury comments about you online, handing our flyers accusing you of child abuse and such like – this is the sadism being manifested. This is not a smear because the smearing happens prior to you discard (so we have got in first) or if you have escape, the smear will happen before we get another primary source. The key determining factor in knowing that you are facing a sadistic narcissist is that we have a new primary source and instead of relishing solely in the golden period with them, we are lashing out at you again and again.
72 thoughts on “Sadistic Streak”
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I discarded my sadistic narcissist lover 3 months ago. He called me the night before we were going to see each other to tell me that he was meeting with another women that night for sex that he had been grooming online for over a year. He told me to remain calm. It was only a bit of lust and I had nothing to worry about. During a 6 year long distance relationship predominantly online /telephone daily (when I wasn’t being ghosted for lengthy periods) he groomed me to become involved with sadomasochism which I was interested in. He is married so we only met physically around 4 times a year. We had been planning our date for two weeks My question to you HG…why on earth would he phone me the night before our “hot date” to tell me that he was going to be having sex with another woman the night before? What sort of fuel was he looking for or was he planning a discard?
Triangulating you to draw negative fuel. Also to make you work harder to keep him.
When they are initiating triangulation like that for negative fuel, at the onset of a new relationship, is it to help propel them to face the intimacy required with that new person?
In their mind (or yours) does it help thinking Clarece would kill to be the one in her shoes having me to do this or take her here or receive this gift (for example).
Fuel, both positive from the target and negative from the incumbent IPPS (in devaluation) assists in overcoming the reluctance re intimacy.
I knew a long time before I dumped my narc that he didn’t see my pain – in fact it was competition for any imagined issue in his life. My husband works in a secure unit with psychopathic inmates. He says my ex’s behaviour is bordering on the psychopathic and if he wasn’t lucky enough to have access to money he’d probably be in prison or a mental institution such is the nature of his disturbed personality. He’s basically an addict – addicted to chaos, drama and sucking the life out of his victims. Like any addict he will not recover unless something awful enough happens to provide sufficient incentive to break the destructive cycle. Even then my experience suggests he has not the honesty required for such a process. I wish his new girlfriend all the best. I know she, like me, will not realise her mistake until it’s too late
And it does help to know that narcs are not saying something horrible because it’s true or even because they actually believe it. It helps a lot. <3
Mmm.
You’ve said that narcissists don’t feel pleasure or joy, but you feel power as a result of obtaining fuel, and the good feelings from that are addictive. But what’s the difference between feeling power and feeling pleasure?
Obviously most people don’t get equally good feelings from making someone miserable as they do from making them happy, so the cause of the feelings are very different. But is the actual feeling itself that much different from what most people call pleasure? Or am I just missing something major?
HG, that could be another projection. My friend works at a Kindergarten, there she observes a little boy. He is often very aggressive and then calms down after a while until the next wave of aggressiveness is there. She asked herself for the reason of that behaviour and recognised that he was always aggressive when his father was out of prison and at home…It is easy to say the little boy is an aggressive child, when you do not take a close look at it. She tries to help, but it is not really possible. The mother defends her husband…. and accuses her child….and the kindergarten … and other children… and so on.
HG
When you were gaslighted as a child, what did you think of it? What did you do? Do sociopaths get mindfucked too?
I did not accept it at first, then I learned it was wiser to accept it and not reject it, better to keep one’s head down. It caused me considerable doubt as to the reality and I wondered repeatedly why I could not remember, but it seemed plausible because of other matters, which as you know, is how it works. Ultimately it was just part of that which drove me along the road to becoming what I am by absorbing and learning from it, using it and doing so more effectively (in later life).
Do sociopaths get mind fucked too? Undoubtedly in their creation, unlikely once created because they do the fucking.
“It caused me considerable doubt as to the reality and I wondered repeatedly why I could not remember, but it seemed plausible because of other matters, which as you know, is how it works. Ultimately it was just part of that which drove me along the road to becoming what I am…”.
That is very interesting, HG, how you say this.
We only see a part of reality through our little five senses and then we interprete it. We learn from our parents what it is that we are seeing, when very very young. They teach us how to interprete and make sense of our surroundings. E. g.: what is money?
So, I can imagine (more or less) how devastating it is, when a little child who just learns about his/her environment, the people, etc., is being mindfucked and also doesn’t know what to believe in an ever-changing surrounding, people being different all the time, can’t be trusted to be always good, nothing permanent.
***
Topic 2:
My next elder sister used to pinch me, stick needles in me, drew the skin of my arms around, used me as a live doll in her doll’s pram and then let me fall out of it, let me sit forever on top of the see saw, etc…. My grandmother complained but my mother thought and told me it was all normal. She also said that my sister never lied…..
Ok, this was helpful. My mother was stupid but my father was smart, however, they were both really violent so I lumped them in with the lessers. He would put a lot of energy into getting back at my mother, especially after he divorced her, and he had a new IPPS, too. He terrorized us for years after he left. I was told he beat and raped my mother in front of my two older sisters and that seems sadistic (sick) to me. On a happy note, I am not a sadist. I just have a sick sense of humor. Phew! Today is looking up.
HG, do you believe that you have had the sadistic trait from very early on? Or do you think, that you developed it watching your family and their success with it ?
I’m told it has always been there.
By whom? Your family or the doctors?
Family, Clarece. The doctors have stated there is sadism and I accept that that is the case, but they have not stated (yet) that it has always been there.
You answered Mona below that you have engaged in many sadistic acts but they took place later than you were originally told by family? Is this time frame from your teenage years still growing up? I remember reading in one your books that your Father would try to dismiss some of your behavior dealing with anger as coming of age boy behaviors.
Can you give an example of one of these sadistic acts and looking back do you recognize if you felt that feeling of power for extracting negative fuel doing it?
Thank you for your honest answer. After all, what you have been told, maybe that is another lie. You never tortured animals or had a need for it (as far as I know you). So, I doubt, that it was there as an inherent character trait .
You are welcome. I agree, I regarded the labelling as part of the attempts to control me. The difficulty is that events are referred to which I do not remember (clearly they sought to gas light me when I was far younger) but I accept now that I have engaged in many sadistic acts but they happened later than the time period which certain individuals have referred to.
I think theres so many levels to sadism. Some are mildly sadistic. Every narcissist must be sadistic on some level to enjoy negative fuel.
Interesting observation NA and I understand why you would arise at such a conclusion. I can certainly understand that from your perspective because you take the view that if someone engages in such unpleasant behaviour that must mean a degree of sadism.
A neighbor friend of my daughter’s years ago was at our house and was pulling legs/wings off of ladybugs. I went out back and told her to stop and how wrong it was. I also told her to leave. I found it deeply upsetting. She was about 9 at the time. I do wonder if there were problems in that home. The older daughter was always in sobbing fits. Both were adopted into a mormon family. I have nothing against mormons but something didnt sit right. She would tell us how the dad would take naps in her sisters bed which i found disturbing. I think sadism in young children is akin to borderlines cutting its a way to deal with painful emotions.
It still bothers me so much to think this gi could get pleasure from hurting an animal 🙁 my brother was another child that enjoyed and found it funny to hurt animals. Hed use beebee guns on cats and dogs and had a pet turtle who when it died he shelled it and used it as an ashtray. Very sick 🙁 im so glad im no contact with him.
One troubling incident i witnessed in relation tk sadism was a neighbor friend of my daughters a few years ago. She was pulling legs off of ladybugs. I got quite upset and explained to her how wrong it was and told her she had to go home. It really bothered me why a child would do this but i suspected there were issues in her home. Who does that to an animal 🙁
So let me get this straight. Your argument is that you aren’t sadists, but rather the emotional equivalent of ticks or intestinal worms? You’re just parasites, fulfilling your needs at our expense, and that is somehow less evil or repulsive? Whatever. Same difference.
What do you think happens to an empath person who becomes victim to not only a person with NPD, but also Bipolar with MPD? Would you find it agreeable that in order to survive this darkness in learning how to manipulate the manipulator for the sake of survival until an escape was made….who do you think I am now in my present life as a survivor of all the above psychs?
Can this kind of behavior also be used on a Secondary source? Since I have started reading all of your writings, I have realize that I am a secondary source to a customer of mine. Long story, but once I confronted him about things he was doing, he stopped buying from my company, saying that business was down and he didn’t have the funds to pay his current account. (which by the way my commission gets taken back if the customer doesn’t pay in a certain time frame) I cannot help but think this was/is being done on purpose.
Yes it can Susan, since fuel is fuel and we will do what is necessary to obtain it.
It’s funny how you keep referencing yourself when I distinctly referred to “the narc” in my question and comment.
What can I say, I am our spokesperson.
I just threw a shit ton of indifference into my tool kit! Now I just have to figure out how to get rid of all that rage… Kick-boxing, that’s the ticket!
Can the narc recognize indifference in another?
Yes we can Just Me.
Thx. Just wanted to see what your thoughts were on whether the narc understands when someone else truly doesn’t care about him or her or his or her thoughts, ideas, notions, blah, blah, blah….
Glad you think the narc knows this.
Oh we do indeed, indifference slays us. We hate it.
This is my exN & I don’t believe he is finished yet… No wonder I’m laying here at 1 am unable to sleep watching Gaslight & reading this blog or maybe that’s the masochist in me.
Hello fellow masochist. Welcome to the club.
Hi Love. I enjoy your posts.
Very good.
Pardon my French. FUCKING BRILLIANT! HG …Thank you (again) for yet more clarity on all things narcissistic!
You’re most welcome.
Thank you HG
Pleasure.
.. “after we have held them by the throat and described how much we hate them.. ”
Are you trying to turn me on?
Signed,
A sadist
Trying?
Hi Jamie. You doing that to someone would turn you on? Just curious.
@jaded Yes it does.
He’s definitely doing it for me!
it’s worse when his hands around my neck..
Me …gasping for breath.tears rolling down My cheeks and he yells: ” don’t u see how much I love You??!!!”
My heads spinning who knew humans could be so complicated.
Im pretty sure the narc in my life has a sadistic streak. Im certain he has many supply and a new primary supply but still has me thinking nothings changed. Well it has changed and theres no going back. I wrack my brain trying to figure out why and the only thing i can come up with is devaluation, sadism and keeping me as back up supply. All of which sucks! I do know one thing i am no longer attracted to him which has been a huge bonus. I no longer have to struggle with that but i do still care and love him. I think more from my empathetic nature. Also i enjoy spending time with him.
I think ill “try” and talk to him about reevaluating our situation to friends. It may end up in a discard but at least itll come with a huge narcissistic injury
I understand that you still feel love for him, Adele. We cannot switch feelings on and off just like that, because our feelings are REAL!
Friendship with your narc – that might be an empathic thought but I doubt that this is possible long-term. If they want friendship, they want it for two reasons:
1: to keep us from moving on!
2: to stay part of our lives: on their terms, coming as they please and leaving as they please!
Being part of our lives is a PRIVILEGE, not a matter of course. And this privilege can be taken away if we deem it necessary and right. In the end, it is a personal decision, of course… and it might change over time 🙂
Sadistically asks, where’s my microecpressions article? 🔌⚡️
It is in the Journal of Forthcoming Articles dear Indy.
Ah yes, the well know JFA! Love that journal! Especially vol 23, 2025. Quick read. I never seem to miss pertinent details in this journal 😉
Indy with tiny attention problem 😂
What if the target strikes back in the form of exposing the narc? There would be proof, and no denying, deflecting, or smooth talking would help.
It depends how the exposure is effected Matilda, it often does not and backfires.
Hmmm…. food for thought, HG!
Excellent article HG😀Thanks! That certainly clarifies a lot from our last PVT consultation😀
HG, this explains a lot. My mistake is based on my emotional reaction to the cruelty and not the realization that his actions/words are of a very different prospective and purpose.
You are welcome Angelina.
H.G. I thought I would drop but to leave you some fuel.⛽
Funny I don’t mind it at all. I try to direct as many struggling survivors to you as possible. Because you have helped me gain so much knowledge and understanding to what had been most of my marriage. Because of you when my husband went ghost for what would be the last time I didn’t call and beg him back home.I decided from reading just about every post you’ve created to move forward and I have been no contact every since. Today I’m happy & safe.Thanks for all the great work you do.
Happy Holidays🎄🎄
Hello JE, thank you popping by and letting me know, you have indeed seized the power and thank you also for directing other people to me, I appreciate that.
I guess my gut was right when my head lights on my car were busted but one in the early winter if 2013 and the second around Feb of 2014. I couldn’t understand how glass could Crack like that did but not have a point of impact, like glass missing from the object that would have hit it like a rock or something like that. Until one day the ex narcissist ( but at the time we were still together ) he asked me why I didn’t have them replaced yet, I side when I get the money I will. Then he said there probably isn’t any reason to replace them because someone will just kick them out again. It all made perfect sense that yes someone could kick them and not have a place of impact because the sole of a shoe is soft not hard like a rock that would have glass removed from the outside of the headlight. He basically was telling on him self. And that isn’t even the worse if it. I had a break like blow on my car and to be honest there is no way this line would have blew like it did. My car is Ike brand new underneath and the type of car I drive puts a special coating on there break lines. When I texted him of what happened all he said , aren’t you glad your dad found it. I’m just lucky I was only going aprox 15 mph when it blew and not 70 mph like I would be driving on my way back home. It’s just scary is all. To scary…..
Thanks Kim, cars are repeated and easy targets – either for damage or to track you.
Dear HG,
But how long it will continue? I am facing it for last 2 years ( though I am in NC) and now he is threatening to disclose everything to public as I am a politician. What do you think? Is it possible for a narcisist? Is he a greater one?
I would need far more information to provide you an informed and accurate response and appropriate way to address this is through a consultation.
Thats so crazy! They do tell on themselves and its a smugness. They enjoy making you wonder. If you have to question if someones messing with your car lines its definitely time to get out! What a horrible experience!
There have been many things that I have found that I know now that he was full of him self then tried to lie out of what I found and said it was something else. But I looked up the number and it wasn’t what he suggested it was. It really hurt to have to believe this man is this sick, sorry HG but he has done some really bad things and said some even worse things. But always had a way of covering up what he said with a reason why he would say it. The bad thing is how could I love a man that was so evil. I guess because the person I loved was the person he was trying to be which was me. 😟
Well Gosh diggidity darn it! Sounds like I’ve been barking up the wrong tree my whole life. If narcs are not true sadists, then where can I find the real deal? Do they have a forum? You’ve just made me realize I’m not a true doormat and you’re not a sadist. 😢 This is very sad news Mr. Tudor. It means I have to leave you soon.
As with all great love affairs, there must always come an end.
Parting is such sweet sorrow…
Ah but have you considered that the mimicry we engage in can nevertheless fulfil that need?
Who am I kidding?! You and I both know I can’t leave. ❤
Music to my ears.
hmmmm