Surely That’s The End, Yes?
“I have not heard from him in a month, he has moved on hasn’t he?”
“I exposed what she is like to all of her family, she won’t be contacting me again that’s for sure.”
“I told him I know what he is and he disappeared so I doubt I will hear from him again.”
“He is with somebody else already so I guess he won’t want me again will he?”
“I told him what I thought of him and he just backed off. He won’t hoover me will he?”
“He came crying back to me and I gave him short shrift. I doubt he will bother again.”
Wrong.
There are many different scenarios and outcomes involving our kind where the victim considers that our kind will not bother with them again post discard or post escape. The victim thinks that a period of total silence, the involvement of the narcissist with a new victim, the manner in which the relationship ended will all mean that the narcissist will not come sniffing around the victim ever again.
We will.
Why is this the case?
Firstly, you must understand our perspective. You belong to us. You are our appliance. You are our property. The Formal Relationship between us may have ended but the Narcissistic Relationship is forever. It only ends when either you or I cease to draw breath. It does not matter that we enter into a new Formal Relationship with somebody else. It does not matter if you do. It does not matter that world war three erupted when we parted company. It does not matter if there has been complete silence for two years. None of these factors alter the fact that in our minds the connection between you and I because of the Narcissistic Relationship lasts until one of us dies.
Secondly, the attraction of gathering fuel from you is substantial and this is the prime driver for never letting go. Fuel is so important to us that it drives everything about behaviour and the link between you and I is no exception to the all-pervasive power of fuel.
Thirdly, factors such as new partners, the effluxion of time and the manner in which the Formal Relationship has ended are immaterial.
I am repeatedly asked by people whether a hoover will happen. I always answer the same; the risk always remains, but you can manage that risk. People set out the circumstances of the end of the Formal Relationship to me and what has happened since (if anything) and ask whether a hoover will happen, or express their view that they do not think it will happen because of a, b or c. My answer again is the same; the risk of us returning always remains, but you can manage that risk.
It is never the end. There is always a risk, a chance, a probability (or a possibility) that we will return to you and apply a hoover. You cannot assume that it is over. No matter how much it may seem that it is over, no matter how much it may appear to you that we will not come back, that we apparently have no reason to do so, such assumptions are dangerous. There are only two factors which are material to the issue of whether you will be hoovered again.
The first factor is the Hoover Trigger. For a hoover to happen potentially, it must first be triggered. This means that you must come into our sights, that we sniff the prospective fuel that leaks from you, that something happens to cause you to come up on our radar. Whether this happens depends on whether you enter one of the six spheres of influence. I have written separately about them in The Spheres of Influence (And What You Can Do About Them) in another article. I will not repeat its content other than to state that
- You have control over whether you enter any of the first five spheres of influence; and
- You have no control over whether you enter the sixth sphere of influence.
By staying away from us through no contact you will not enter the first five spheres. The sixth sphere is when we happen to think of you. Thus, if you have successfully implemented no contact the only risk of a trigger being activated is if we happen to think of you. You cannot influence that. Our preoccupation with your replacement means we are far less likely to think of you and hoovers are triggered by you doing something to enter the first five spheres, such as messaging us or passing where we live.
If you maintain no contact the first five spheres will not be entered. It then just depends on whether we happen to think of you. This may not happen for weeks or months. You can therefore see that by staying out of the first five spheres you will vastly reduce the risk of a Hoover Trigger being activated but you cannot state that it will never happen as it is reliant on if we happen to think of you. That may just be a random occurrence or it might be because we see something that reminds us of you.
The second factor is only applicable if the Hoover Trigger has been activated. The second factor is concerns the Hoover Criteria. These criteria include such matters as: –
– Whether you are a potent source of fuel;
– Whether you can easily be located;
– Whether you can easily be contacted;
– Whether you have your defences maintained concerning us;
– Whether you remain mired in the emotional sea;
– What support networks you have in place;
– How well fuelled we are;
– The nature of the narcissist who you entangled with (Lesser, Mid-Range or Greater); and
– Potential obstacles
All of these matters combine to determine whether it is worthwhile us expending our energy to act on the Hoover Trigger. If we are presented with a sitting target, flowing with fuel, caught in the emotional sea, isolated and exposed then the criteria point heavily to the fact that a hoover will now take place. If on the other hand it is very hard to contact you, we know you have stopped flowing with fuel when dealing with us, you have people who will stop us trying to reach you and so forth, you become a Flawed Reason to Extract Emotion (F.R.E.E.).
For a worked example of how this can happen if someone enters the first sphere of influence I recommend that you read the article Hoover Time! Sphere One.
Accordingly, if you can do everything possible to become a F.R.E.E. then even if Hoover Trigger is activated then the chances of us executing that hoover will be considerably reduced. By contrast, if you fail to attain becoming a F.R.E.E. then you run the risk of a hoover being executed.
You will note that in the hoover criteria above there is no mention of the gap between when we last contacted you and the current time. There is no mention of the circumstances in which we parted company as the Formal Relationship. There is no mention of you knowing what we are, whether you told us, whether you exposed our abuses to others. Those are not factors which concern us. The existence of a new partner is not relevant either in isolation, but is only a partial consideration in terms of whether that person might stop us. Of course even if they might do so and all the other factors point to the execution of a hoover, this one criterion has diminished relevance.
Accordingly, when you are asking yourself whether a hoover may happen. Remember this.
- You can never say never.
- There needs to be a Hoover Trigger. You can significantly influence whether there is one and reduce the risk but you cannot remove it.
- The Hoover Criteria need to be met. Again, you can significantly influence whether the criteria are met by becoming a F.R.E.E. and reduce the risk, but you cannot remove it.
The issue of whether you will experience a hoover is not completely in your hands, but is far more within your control than you might at first have thought.
It is never the end but you are not helpless.
73 thoughts on “Surely That’s The End, Yes?”
Vent Your Spleen! (Please see the Rules in Formal Info)
This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.
If you were an IPSS and become a F.R.E.E. and you are dealing with a Greater/Sociopath (wondering what the difference is), should you be worried for him ruining your life/smear campaigns? Is his fury ignited when you become a F.R.E.E.?
Thank you in advance for your reply.
It is unusual for an IPSS to be smeared extensively. It would generally be if you have attempted some kind of exposure of the Greater as opposed to becoming a FREE.
7 months post discard. I went complete NC as soon as I sent my “closure text” two days after the breakup. He lives 5 mins away from my business. He began testing the waters 4 days after he broke up with me over the phone. He drove up to the street a block away from my building. I didn’t acknowledge him parked at the stop sign staring, waiting to see if I’d look his way or motion him over. I froze on the sidewalk and looked in the opposite direction and then went about my business.
Since then, we’ve passed occasionally at a 4 way stop. I continue to ignore his existence. Over the past couple of months he’d bike nearby as well.
Very recently he has gotten the courage to run to my corner and on Valentine’s night ran right past my front windows while I was teaching my class. I couldn’t help but look up that time. So he knows for sure I saw him.
This has gone on each week or two around Monday or Tuesday. Not sure of the significance of those days. And it seems he’s getting closer and closer.
He hasn’t made any other attempts at contacting me. I’m wanting to know if he’s going to stop now that I’m not reaching out and he’s not getting any response from me at all. I truly can’t see why he is doing this and what I should be prepared for next. Any ideas?
Ive started seeing someone else. This crazy person started harrasing the narcissist and his family anonymously on social media using fowl language to leave me alone. Can i expect some kind of retaliation from the narcissist? We are currently not talking to each other. Also will he still hoover after all of this depending on the hoover trigger and hoover bar?
The abuse is fuel. However, the narcissist may well use this as pretext to gain more fuel from you.
The hoover will happen subject to the Hoover Trigger being activated and the Hoover Execution Criteria being met.
7 months post discard. I went complete NC as soon as I sent my “closure text” two days after the breakup. He lives 5 mins away from my business. He began testing the waters 4 days after he broke up with me over the phone. He drove up to the street a block away from my building. I didn’t acknowledge him parked at the stop sign staring, waiting to see if I’d look his way or motion him over. I froze on the sidewalk and looked in the opposite direction and then went about my business.
Since then, we’ve passed occasionally at a 4 way stop. I continue to ignore his existence. Over the past couple of months he’d bike nearby as well.
Very recently he has gotten the courage to run to my corner and on Valentine’s night ran right past my front windows while I was teaching my class. I couldn’t help but look up that time. So he knows for sure I saw him.
This has gone on each week or two around Monday or Tuesday. Not sure of the significance of those days. And it seems he’s getting closer and closer.
He hasn’t made any other attempts at contacting me. I’m wanting to know if he’s going to stop now that I’m not reaching out and he’s not getting any response from me at all. I truly can’t see why he is doing this and what I should be prepared for next. Any ideas?
Hello Ash. These are hoovers and they will happen subject to the Hoover Trigger and the Hoover Execution Criteria.
Brilliant post. I enjoyed it a lot.
I quote from it: “You belong to us. … It only ends when either you or I cease to draw breath. … the Narcissistic Relationship lasts until one of us dies.”
Does a narcissist really think so?
I’m probably lost in translation. In Castilian, perhaps not in English, it sounds er, how would I put it? er, decimonónico (nineteenth-century).
I mean, I can clearly imagine Heathcliff saying those words to Catherine, looking straight into her eyes. Intensely…
Beautiful scene!
But.
If a man told me that (no man ever has, I suppose I’m not attractive enough), I’d run like hell.
Except for Daniel Day-Lewis, of course.
Hello Elena, yes that is the mind set that we apply to your ensnarement.
Hola, Elena!
Sí, eso es peor que decimonónico, es casi medieval. Los narcisistas piensan en sus víctimas como “cosas”, no como “personas”. Si les sirven de algo, son buenos; si no, se nos echan fuera igual que basura. Es como un espejo – si reflejan exactamente como quieren mostrarse al mundo, el espejo está bueno pero si el reflejo está roto ya salen buscando a uno mejor.
No sé si sabes que hay traducción de por lo menos un libro de HG Tudor en Español, te lo recomiendo, es muy didáctico.
Saludos!
Dear HG, my apologies for submitting another question after I had submitted one a few minutes ago. I am patient, so if you could please answer at your convenience, I would be most grateful. You wrote about when IPSS or dirty secret get dumped when they fail to do what the narc wants or if they wound. Is it enough if any disagreement arises or do these transgressions have to happen repeatedly and intentionally? I would expect the latter and as long as the IPSS or dirty secret is quick to straight out, fall back in line, and continue being a reliable provider of fuel, they should remain of use to the narc. But then I am not a narc. Your thoughts HG? Thank you ever so much!
A disagreement would be a challenge to the narcissist but probably fuel-filled so it would not cause an issue. If the IPSS or DS keeps failing to do what the narcissist wants, such defiance is a criticism and wounds and naturally frustrates the reason the appliance was installed in the first place and therefore in such circumstances they will be devalued or hurled to one side.
So we must take ourselves out of this sick “rotation”. I found a pair of black shoes I had completely forgotten the other day. Obviously not one of my “favorites’. Yes, I tried them on to see if they still fit. They did! So I put them back on the shelf…one day. Maybe one day.
Dear HG, thank you for answering my question. As busy as you are, I really appreciate you getting to all our inquiries. Please be assured we are very much obliged to you. My apologies for not making myself clear. I was asking about the narcissist’ thought process for when and how he decides to take IPSS or Dirty secret off the shelf. You may recall in your “silent treatment or discard” article you indicated these would be put on the shelf while the narc is busy with the new primary source, etc. Thank you!
Thank you IL, i appreciate your politeness.
The IPSS will be taken off the shelf when it is time to consider finding a new primary source, thus they will be brought back into play. Further, if we have a fuel issue, they will be turned to and brought back into play.
The DS is taken off the shelf once devaluation of the primary source occurs.
How long does it take to devalue the other and what if it’s not the primary but another dls?
There is no set time on the period of devaluation.
I don’t think he’s ever coming back … his remarks last nite …. not messing with you ever again …
He will – subject to Hoover Trigger and the Hoover Execution Criteria being met. We are never bound by our words.
Indy it is hard especially when kids are used, you have come so far. You are stronger then you know.
Lol flowers would have been a nice touch thou
Thank you Snow, it’s hard not to respond. I felt the guilt trip….for about a minute. Ok, maybe 30 minutes… I reread the message and realized that it was all about him. He didn’t ask about my recent loss, he didn’t ask how I’ve been doing, how my relatives are doing? It was all updates about himself, painting a picture that I’m sure is far more positive than what is real. Claiming he thinks about me every day and the mistakes he’s made. Really? I don’t think so. I simply entered his sixth sphere due to first xmas holiday since break up.
Dont do it INDY. Think what you would tell a daughter or one of us. He has others and its not your concern if he doesnt.
Oh NA, I’m not gonna break NC, dont worry! Im strong. Just sharing my frustration and true feeling about his attempt. Thank you for your support, though 😊😘
Hoover attempt today, new phone number. It was text, beneign hoover. Wishing me well for holidays, apology, missing me. I have to say it’s my old nature to wish well back. I reminded myself, it was all about him. Not really me. Plus, where are my damned flowers lol It was something that touched my heart, flowers. He knew this and he’d never give, out of spite because he knew I loved them,particularly a specific kind. Not that it would work now. But seriously, step it up!!! Hahaha…thank god he’s not a greater!!!!
I’m ignoring. NC is good.
Oh yes Indy. I wish they would step up their hoover game. Good for you for NC!
I spoke too fast. He just sent a video message of his lieutenant’s kids saying hi to me. He knows how much I love those kids. Going straight for the jugular. How do you not respond to that??? 😪
I sorry Love,a video would definitely break my heart too. Mine mentioned how he and his daughter missed me this Christmas and that he will “always love me” and “if you find it in your heart” to please call…***ehem, guilt trip*** ** pity play**
Well, where’s my freaken flowers, love poems, love song dedications, pleading letters on my car, his body laid out prostrate on my doorstep in utter devastation and guilt saying Queen Indy? Oh yeah, you’re a freaken mid range…🙄
Indy you deserve all of that and then some. It is not too much to expect them to seranade under your balcony, enter into a tournament to win your favour, duel with swords (or pistols) for your honor.
Hi Love,
You are so sweet. We deserve real love! Not fake lines or emotions. I’m learning still. Here’s to us, Love and all us out here, on our own and finding ourselves and having higher standards, HG style 😍
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r-FUquLYdxQ
Ooooh that’s my jam!!! Thanks Indy!
Get it Girl!!! Check that walk and attitude she exudes. Yep, owning some of that right here 😊
Hi Indy,
Look how strong you are now!!!
Great job at not replying back.
I worried all day that I was going to hear from her with some kind of Christmas wish and I didn’t. But it’s like you said it’s all about them. HG is sooo right when he says it’s how fueled they are and the spheres. My ex is busy. And just like you I would have wanted to say the same back. Glad I didn’t hear from her.
Hello Mr. Tudor,
i went no contact after he hoovered me 10 weeks ago. I carefully tried to explain to him, that he has many narcissistic traits. (In fact he has a full fledged NPD I’m sure) His eyes darkened, but he said nothing at all. I figured out, that he has interest in a working colleague. He sents her text messages everyday. I became jealous because he went to the bathroom with his smartphone and kept staring at it all the time. Sometimes he even hid it from me. He denied it and became very angry. He told me that I’m a liar, that I needed help. I should go to a Psychotherapist.
I had enough and brought him his personal things after three days of silence. Then I got a text message from him that it makes absolutely no sense to stay in contact with me. We can’t be friends, or lovers. My behaviour was terrible and everytime he talked with me he had inner anxiety.
He don’t like this feeling so it is better for him to stay away from me. He wished me good luck and blocked me from a messanger. I answered in a mail that I wish that he never contact me again. His response was that he does not want to have contact with somebody who have a disturbed perception.
What about his feeling of inner anxiety? Have I wounded him, when I told him that I know he is interested in another woman?
Why he said I need help? Is it his projection? Is it because I explained to him, that something is wrong with him?
Is there a great opportunity that I never hear anything from him again?
Many questions…
Greetings from Germany
I live 10 hours away. So I won’t see him to make him hoover.
He is not on FB.
It’s been nearly 9 solid months since he discarded me.
The exchange during discard was UGLY I sent multiple ANGRY emails and told him to never contact me again.
I think this might be the true end in this case right?
He isn’t a master narcissist to my knowledge, always covert and playing the good, nice guy. Never hit or abused. Very needy and demanding of my attention.
Used Me for that. We were best friends for 15 years. Several smaller discards over the years but never 9 months.
I’m kinda shocked he hadn’t hovered.
I don’t know whether to think he will or not?
So true. I had an ex before that hoovered very differently. Hed let months go by before contacting me. Well for me time heals and i no longer had any interest in him. I still get emails and dont even have the interest to look. When im turned off theres no going back.
Present narc is a totally different story. He hoovers within a day. The longest weve been apart no contact was a week and that was after a serious blowout. Interestingly i started to feel a tiny bit optimistic by day 7. I noticed when u dont get any forms of contact and keep looking for those emails or phone calls its crushing at first. Over the span of days it gets easier and i felt my sense of self returning. When he contacted me day 7 it was his birthday and i broke down and replied. Its so so so important if you truely want no contact you close all areas of contact like emails, facebook, your phone numbers and even move in some cases. Leave no portholes open. Looking back i didnt bc i wanted that hoover. We do it to oureselves by being acessible
Excellent explanation!! I look forward to reading the other two articles you mentioned. Very helpful. 😊
Reblogged this on Speak Out 4 Others .
I have made myself a F.R.E.E. Two states away, different cell phone, blocked social media and email, different passwords, protection of family and friends, concealed carry and a really bad attitude.
“I always come back”, he’d say. He meant it. Repeated hoovers, it never puts him off for long as he just thinks of an alternative method, something new to try. Wish he’d fuck off for good. How different I am now to how I was two years ago, when I wish he would come back (after each discard). Lo and behold, 2-4 months later he’d reappear each time, and I’d feel that ‘high’ of trying again…not any more.
Great post btw. Hands down, you are the go to person on this subject. Vankin doesn’t even come close
You just made my Christmas
At least someone did.
Ho ho ho
Can mid’s, when in denial of what they really are, THINK they love a person. Obviously I know the way Dickula treated me was not “love” but sometimes I think he thinks he loves me. Confusing his perceived “need” of my fuel as love? Maybe it’s like a bratty 5 year old “loving” the brand new PlayStation he can’t have. Who knows. I’m really sick of this stupid shit consuming my life. We waste years subjecting ourselves to their shit show, then when we finally realize what’s going on and get out, we spend even more time trying to figure them out. It makes me angry with myself that I’m giving it more of my time.
Apparently he thinks of me, a lot lately.
SMH
Thank you HG, you have brought a different perspective to many things and answers to many why’s.
You are most welcome
I’m so sorry about gm I’m here alone devastated and my nervous system is out of control, can’t stop crying he’s like father to me, when most of us lived a fatherless life many people like him were our role models, I grew up in a very gay family and this is a terrible loss to all gay children who ate gay and had homosexual parents, our father has died and Michael Jackson died all over again, irreplaceable
Clary
Its ok he just wanted your sex.
Laugh dammit!
Never say never…never say always…I very rarely use the word never…I always use the word always thought when I sign my cards to my spouse. <3
That’s great advice Elaine!
I’ve learned not to use that word like I used too.
This is another thing I find incredibly puzzling. The fact that you approach us after the discard/escape like no time has passed, like nothing awful went down between us, like there’s nothing to talk about after such dysfunction, etc. You just behave and assume like the relationship will continue on as it is did in the good times. It’s an aspect of cuh-ray-zy that totally outs you as narcs. What exactly is going on in your mind when you do this? How and why do you not address anything or think that you can get away with sweeping everything under the carpet like this? Do you think we are stupid? Or are you just seeing if you can get away with not being held accountable? Do you consider what you are doing to be adult behavior? Because the behavior serves to make a fool of you and serves up your diseased minds on a platter to us. If we had any doubts before that there is something deeply wrong with you, they all disappear in an instant when you hoover like this.
He once told me…before Discard… his favorite quote is “Never say never”. Interesting.
Your writing is very addictive, HG. Every day I look forward to a new installment of articles, and I am never disappointed. A quick question for you if you would kindly consider answering it. So I presume this article covers hoovers of discarded or escaped intimate partners primary sources. What about shelved IPSS and DSIPSS? When and how does the narcissist decide to take them off the shelf? Any triggers and criteria at play? Thank you very much!
Thank you IL, as you will have read in What Am I To Him and Dirty Little Secret, the golden period lasts for a far longer time. The removal for an IPSS or DSIPSS will be the failure to provide fuel at all, wounding of the narcissist through fuel free criticism, failure to do what the narcissist wants and threatening or actually exposing.
Well that should make some very happy. Now we will be assured that “theirs” wont and why ( not sure if hes not going to, why youd have to state that), and the new incessant question will be: when? How long before he contacts?
Indeed NA, indeed.
HG
Do you tend to Hoover close to holidays?
I blocked or left every avenue I could have been reached or had games played. Could he just walk away thinking I am going to contact him, I escaped. His thought that he is so great I want him back. Not even thinking, no I do not want you back? I got all I needed from him and won’t be revisiting the relationship!
Hi SII, yes, anniversaries of any kind tend to cause people to enter the sixth sphere (or they blunder into another sphere themselves) and if the HEC is met then a hoover occurs.
Excellent explanation of how that works.
It took several of your articles to understand how all of that works but now I am the one who explained it to to my therapist.
I know you say that you own us forever but what about what is ours. I’m talking about my son who she always took credit for. I thought at the time that she had a special connection with him but now I know he was just an appliance too. It made her look good. It really is a shame because once someone is out of his life he doesn’t care to remember but he still says her name and remembers her.
I was just informed that she just got an autism bracelet and that she is bragging about being in an autistic child’s life. She might even be lying about still being in his life.
When the relationship ends would you still consider a child something that you own?
Ive worked with children with aspergers and autism and they are unique sweet souls! Theres a misconception they dont feel emotion but ive only seen the opposite. They are very loving individuals and feel deeply. Socially they can struggle but it can be overcome
https://youtu.be/aQmhzCrDC0k?list=PLdCCAGQmmKBZZgWpaUELdKBnzoLBwVleD
He is my new favorite. I love his lyrics. A very good ballad.
This link has his all his songs. He is talented.
Oh he’s a lovely musician!! Thanks for sharing him 😊
I have dallied with negative fuel, I think it is like alcohol.
Most people can drink alcohol for fun but are not obsessed.
When I listen to a prank call they are only good if the victim gets angry. So I must be getting negative fuel from this.
The people who make the calls seem to be narcs because they harass good victims until they die.
The issue with him is mute. When I am done, I am done. It is not up to him. He can reach out via phone, text, email but he will not get what he needs regarding fuel, He tried two days ago.
Monotone.
This is how it works for me. Done is done. No going back. Shut down, discard.
So in his mind, he might think he still owns me, but he is taking a big risk reaching out. I will attack his ego, not with calling him names but with issues he can’t fix. He knows I come with a cannon. This one only ha a bat.
Wtg ah oh!! 👍👍👍
Adele, Thank you! It felt very good to feel nothing.
Yes, excellent job Oh Ah!!!! 👍🏻🙌🏻
HG…. given that you have so many “ex’s”….. how do u find the time to hoover them all and maintain all the other current relationships ….. ip, dls, etc.
and get normal stuff done in life? 🙂
Well, I am not hovering all of the exes repeatedly, that would be impossible, thus they are hoovered in accordance with the Hoover Trigger and the fulfilment of the HEC amongst which is what my fuel needs are.
yeah… that makes sense and i kinda answered my own question after i wrote it…..that happens sometimes
Indeed it does but also evidences you seizing the power.
Wow. This article was most insightful! Awesome and alarming. Well, yes I was destroyed after a covert narcissist beauty worked her evil and then discarded me. I rose from the ashes, stronger, better, and filled with “fuel”. I have great family and friends to thank for that. Oh, I almost forgot- that fuel is for me now. I will use it to heal and help others that were destroyed by narc vampires. I am now an equalizer to the destruction that they make. My gas station is CLOSED. Great article though.