The Mind Games – Part Two
Having detailed some of the mind games that we deploy against you, this leads to the inevitable question of why do we do this? I daresay that some of you will be tempted to answer
“Because you are all arseholes.”
Whilst this is understandable and potentially accurate (when viewed from your perspective) it is not going to provide you with any insight into the workings of our minds and behaviours. Accordingly, I will expand on why it is we use mind games to comprehensively.
- Fuel. An obvious one and rightly the first one that is considered. The application of mind games to the dynamic between you and us is done in order to prompt an emotional reaction from you and thus garner fuel from you. Whether you become upset, distraught, frustrated, annoyed or angry as a consequence of the games being played, it is all fuel which we will readily drink up.
- Control. We are obsessed with control. Our environment must be beholden to us. We have to control everything around us in order to ensure that we continue to exist, receive fuel, minimise and remove risks and so forth. By subjecting you to mind games, we are able to achieve this need for control, since you become trapped by them, you remain paralysed by their effects as you try to establish what is happening, rather than knowing them for what they are and moving away from them.
- Future planning. It is a common outcome from entangling with our kind that you will be labelled as The Crazy One once you have been discarded or escaped, as part of the smear campaign. The mind games bring about such a state of mind in you that it becomes easy enough for us to point to your behaviour during devaluation, your behaviour post discard/escape and demonstrate that you are indeed unhinged. There are very few people who can actually resist the proliferation of mind games and not be affected by them in some way and many people are left at the end of their tether creating an appearance of being “crazy”.
- Façade management. By engaging in games where we are I control, you are seen as histrionic and volatile, where we are calm and pleasant to everybody but you and causing people to form an adverse view about you, this allows us to manage and maintain the façade. We have an array of lieutenants and members of our coterie who all regard us as decent and kind, which then makes your life even harder in terms of trying to persuade people about what we really are.
- Superiority reinforcement. We operate from the perspective that we are superior to everybody around us and especially you. By engaging in games where we are able to pull the string, make you upset and angry and exert control, this allows us to emphasise that we are indeed superior to you.
- Self-defence. Many of the mind games that we engage in are because we need to defend ourselves from being challenged or criticised. Hence when we project, deny, deflect and blame-shift, although there may be a collateral benefit in terms of how it affects you, the primary reason for engaging in these behaviour is to protect ourselves by rejecting blame, preventing your challenge and addressing criticism.
- Exhaustion. With any situation, you respond to it more effectively when you are rested and able to think in a clear manner. The deployment of mind games causes you to become exhausted which results in your lacking clarity, experiencing a reduced resistance and diminished will-power. This means that you are far less likely to try to escape what we are doing and far more likely to accept doing what we want.
- Plausible deniability. By operating within the vestiges of the spoken, gestures and actions, we are often able to maintain being vague and amorphous. This allows us to manipulate you to a further degree but also serves an incredibly useful purpose in denying that we have engaged in such behaviours to begin with, especially with a third party. If we are challenged by, for example, someone in authority, we can point to the absence of proof or turn it into the word of someone calm and reasonable against some frazzled, ranting Crazy Person.
- Impact. The impact of emotional and psychological abuse is invariably more difficult for the victim to handle than physical abuse. Whilst physical abuse is understandably unpleasant, the insidious nature of mind games means that the victim cannot grasp what is happening, cannot ascertain if they are being subjected to a mind game (being punched is obvious and unequivocal) and cannot fathom why they are being treated in this manner. You no doubt will have heard victims state,
“I would have preferred to have been physically assaulted than be put through the mental torture.”
For someone to choose physical injury over this underlines just how devastating the impact is.
- Lack of detectability. Alongside plausible deniability is the fact that a bruise is a bruise and therefore raises questions. It is far harder to determine the effect of the mind games. Yes, someone may present as exhausted, anxious, hypervigilant, terrified and so on, but there is always the potential for us to suggest that it is put on and/or is related to something else. It is harder to do this with physical abuse (although not impossible). Indeed, some people do not allow the effect of the mind games to be seen, preferring to keep it hidden from other parties.
- Erosion. If you suffer a broken arm, you can still function. You can use your other arm, you can walk places, talk, you can hear and see and so forth. The mind games naturally affect that which controls and governs everything you do. By wearing down your mind, we are able to grind you down, causing your resistance to weaken and preventing you from functioning in a manner which might aid your escape from us.
- Tenderising. The application of mind games through achieving erosion and exhaustion as described above means that in effect you are being “tenderised” for further manipulations to be applied against you with maximum effect.
- Empathic vulnerability. As a person who has empathic traits and thus the reason why you were targeted by us, you are more susceptible to these kind of behaviours. Mind games work especially well against you as a consequence of your traits such as honesty, decency, telling the truth, needing to understand, wanting to help and your emotional responses.
- Endeavour. Some of the mind games end up making you try harder to please and do things for us with the additional benefit which naturally arises from this.
- Power. This is applicable to the Greater Narcissist only as the Lesser and Mid-Range are not aware of the true extent of the application of mind games. The Greater Narcissist revels in being apply to treat somebody in this manner, distort their world, have them jumping and moving at their say so, causing them to fountain with fuel and have no idea how or why this is being done to them. The various manipulations and their outcomes means this appeals to the omnipotence which Greaters believe that they have.
129 thoughts on “The Mind Games – Part Two”
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Why don’t you ask HG to take you for the ride himself?
Are you serious or is this a strange sense of humour? Haven’t read all of your posts, hence the question.
I’m sorry Ava. It seems we have a different sense of humor. Best of luck to you.
Hello Love, I’m still waiting for HG to moderate my post and give his feedback on that … but I can give you the address of my ex-narc? 😉
Lol thanks Ava. I will definitely take you up on your offer when Mr. Tudor puts the stamp of “Greater” on your ex narc. I have been with a couple incredibly intelligent narcs. One was a computer programmer (3 year relationship) and the other a thoracic surgeon (2 year relationship). They exhibited all the narc traits (including narcissistic mothers) yet neither had me blindsided or utterly devastated. While they are extremely sharp and successful in their profession, they lack the “je ne sais quoi” to be crowned a Greater.
HG: Please do Love the favour and put a stamp on my ex narc? I had answered to your awareness question?
Love: I still don’t get it. You are serious?? Will gladly give you his contact information, I’m sure he will enjoy some fresh fuel, as his pregnant main energy source surely won’t be able to give 100 % to him anymore.
Sounds like a very selfish primary for not giving him 200% of herself. Pregnancy, sickness, loss of consciousness, coma??? Excuses excuses! 😉 Shirking from her duty, is what she’s doing.
Yes, Ava, give me his address. But do so in Morse code so Mr. Tudor doesnt find out!
Esclarecedor.
Hi Love and ABB,
SMH, so greaters huh? You some crazy biatches (meant with love, lol, and a “you crazy” look). So, how about finding greaters by living in Washington DC and giving doe-eyes to those at the pentagon? Hell, if you are gonna hunt, might as well be efficient about it 😂 ABB, I’m sure you met a few too! All that DEA work, I’m sure you know how to locate them!!
Lol true true Indy. I have a question in moderation about Greaters and Emotional IQ. I wonder if there is a correlation.
I’m utterly fascinated about Greaters, because they are such a rare species and science hasn’t wrapped its head around it. Naturally, I want an up close and personal look… And touch 😊. Before Mr. Tudor, I wanted to interview clinically diagnosed psychopaths. Glad I found him instead.
I think together on this forum we can crack the code… Maybe we can publish a ground breaking white paper on psychopathy/sociopathy.
Rare species? Lucky me.
Yes Ava. I’m still trying to understand what makes a narc a Greater. It goes beyond intelligence. I know plenty of cerebrals yet none get the title of Greater. As Indy has stated, it also requires internal awareness. I am stumped on what is the catalyst to evolve from Mid to Greater. Mr. Tudor, please shed light on this when you’re ready.
Hello Love, there will be further works about the Greater coming through which will answer your questions.
You’re wonderful! Thank you Mr. Tudor.
Well, … when I first found out (took me a while, simply because I wasn’t familiar with the concept of narcissm at all), I told him. He lost his balance for a milli-second and then answered calmely like he always did when I kindly corrected one of his un-truths: I’m not a narcissist. And acted toootally innocent … like an innocent lamb …
🙂
I (naively) was hoping back then that he might … read up about that topic himself and then come to me, talk to me … totally in tears and confessing everything. Looking for solutions. Something like that. No, it didn’t happen, of course.
I also sent him an e-book on intimacy-phobia, in the same manner, when I was still too dumb / blind-folded / naive, which described extremely well his behavior in that regard. Usually, he would react to criticism, but he completey ignored that one.
I kindly pointed out once or twice when exchanging e-mails that the content of his mail was unacceptable (because full of devaluation and full of emotional abuse etc.) by addressing him with “Hello, Narciss …” He didn’t like that but also didn’t get furious, he carried on as before … After that I learned to block all his attempts at contact at the first sight of devaluation. I got pretty familiar with his cycle. I’m predicting at the moment he will contact me again after my birthday.
I also helpfully suggested once that he might try to fuck his own reflection in the mirror, maybe he would prefer that to making love to women. He found that funny and deadpanned promptly “how would you know that I’m not already in the habit doing this”?
So in hindsight and given the fact how he’s carefully constructed his life … I would say: Yes.
****
BTW found it interesting that you pointed out somewhere that narcs tend not to speak about their childhood or mothers. That’s what he does, too. He also spoke of his mother (who also had another child by another man when he was just a baby, just like my father did …) only in the highest terms, stressing the fact that she went back to university now and how well she had cooked for him, etc.
After having read your articles I came to the conclusion, that the second time he REALLY got to me was a long, long time before that carefully planned out. I can’t believe it. What you wrote about creating pictures, and wishes … painting future plans. He did that really well.
Damn, I missed my opportunity to please you, HG, by teaching you new German words:
I wrote of course, “Hallo, Narziss!”.
But it’s actually Narzisst, with a “t”. But that’s illogical.
Soooo do you think he is??
My greater ex-narc:
I take it that he e.g. had total self control. That he played with my mind and me like … it was nothing. Almost as eloquent as HG (of course not reaching your level HG!), celebral, beautiful, and MALIGN. Everything planned out. I’m still learning from HG what was done.
I’m kind of amazed … e.g. I did some things right, like … ignoring him last time I saw him in front of our entire spiritual group and ignoring every remark of his then. He never ever raised his voice above his usual beautiful tone, he never lost control for a second, not on that day, not ever. He smiled. But I wasn’t aware at all that it was too late anyways, as he had before carefully planned a shared car ride to our meetings together with the 2 people out of that group, whom I trusted most and relied on most, like on a brother and sister. Turns out: they had been brain washed by him a looong time ago, in his car, while still seducing me again. He acted completely innocent, always having beautiful (and logical) sounding explanations for everything.
I had NO idea about what else was going on in his life. Oh no, wait. He showed his fury once, when he hadn’t expected me to meet my lover again immediately after his discard (I was starved for sex and carressing etc., he should have known that). 😉 That was the one and only time I experienced his fury, but so I know it is there.
All the while executing _emotional_ abuse in a way that it took him not even 2 months to have me completely in a state where I didn’t know left from right and pulling strings for several years then onwards … I couldn’t put my finger on any of this: verbal abuse I recognized after a while, but even that was really really subtle. .. Like … I had to shake my head thoroughly to return to some clear thinking to even recognize what he said that made me confused and hurt …. hardly recognizable…. as all his manipulations …. he was completely calculated, _ice cold_, whilel subtle.
I thought, he was in every single way and nuance the perfect partner for me. I believed everything he said.
All the while being cruel beyond the taking. I tore my skin open with my own hands because I couldn’t take it anymore! I was lying in bed with PTSD for a month, and still not realizing which of his machinations had done that, I was looking for the cause of my PTSD even in the wrong place!
A complete angel from the outside. Always incredible charming. Entertaining, funny, charismatic, spiritual, never drinking, smoking, …
And while smiling and while noone else suspected anything from the outside (I have exactly 3 friends left who believed me), he destroyed my life completely, in every single way. He almost managed to take away my spiritual beliefs but that was the one thing he couldn’t touch in the end.
When I told him how I couldn’t trust a single soul anymore because of him, all he said was “welcome to my world”.
***
You think that fits the greater, HG?
I forgot that my ex-narc is highly intelligent and quick-minded and does have personal insight, always keen to explore (or make up … ) his personality.
He always seems to have a large circle of secondary and tertiary sources. He always got what he wanted from anyone, even from people whom I would regard as highly developed. Rules didn’t apply to him.
Great at performing music, too.
He hated of course criticism, not being responded to, etc.
Sometimes, he seemed to me a bit like Sheldon, at other times like from a different universe. 😉
I would certainly agree it is heading in that direction. Did he ever exhibit any awareness of what he was to you, even just in passing or did it not come up because at the time you did not know what he was?
Indy: did you experience memory losses? Did it get better?
Hi Ava,
I experienced a number of symptoms related to trauma. I experienced an increased level of arousal (hypervigilence), reduced sleep, very high anxiety, the beginnings of suicidal ideation (that was my red flag to go see a psychiatrist), and doubting my gut instincts. I also started to mildly dissociate into a fog and reduced attention span beyond my natural ADD. I did not lose memories, I doubted my reality due to intense and persistent gas lighting. Because I know myself well enough, I fought for my mind hard. It was like fighting for my life. I reduced my professional caseload, sought counseling, sought psychiatry for medication and then found HG. I then began the plan to leave with HG’s books (Escape, Exorcism, Departure Immanent, etc)…and fought for my sanity. And, it took 30 days of no contact to reduce the constant high arousal and addiction to his contact. It took about 90 days to be strong enough after leaving him to know I had enough resolve to give him a “go to hell” last phone call, as he hovered me REALLY HARD, and not return. He still hovers, though I do not give him any response. Now, after about 6 months, it doesn’t send me into panics anymore. I do watch myself and my surroundings all the time when I am alone and walking to and from my car. I do watch for stalking. It is the after effects of his kind with my kind.
Hi Indy,
thank you so much for sharing.
I had the same symptoms, though not as severe, I believe.
I have sometimes trouble remembering words, and stuff like that. My brain is like cotton wool at times.
I’m glad that you’re on the right way!!!
Had anxiety, too. Didn’t even want to go outside anymore, or more like, not meet any new people.
With laughing together with you about some of the stuff, it got better. 🙂
Also that I know what to look out for.
This all could happen to me because I wouldn’t in a million years have gotten the idea / suspected that anybody could do something like that on purpose. Now I know better, it’s as if I had moved into a parallel reality. I feel like have lost my innocence, I’m grieving for the person I was before. And as you said, too, for my loss of believe in love.
But I feel more secure with having that knowledge know, I can see the signs now and know what I have to look out for or “test”.
I’m still having epiphanies about how my exnarc operated, every single bit of our interaction has been shattered, every memory I had still valued, has been demasked, so to speak … That’s hard to take in the beginning. But a lot better now, without the delusion.
Looks like I can be really thankful that I seem to have become non-functional for my ex-narc, after my last message, he hasn’t turned up anymore. I pray that it stays that way.
I hope your’s is going to vanish into thin air, too, soon!!!
I know the “looking over your shoulder” all the time. It will get better.
And you’re fully capable of keeping yourself save.
Thank you Ava 🙂 Yes, we are stronger and more knowledgeable, which is something to also be thankful of for sure. I will keep safe, no worries. You too!!
I forgot to mention, I did have memory loss…I forgot (hahahah). I actually developed what is known as abuse amnesia. Another PTSD like symptom. It is basically our minds not understanding why someone we love would do and say such things that does not make sense if they love us….so we protect our selves by forgetting them…I then started a journal. While in the relationship….so I would not forget. The abuse was in my face on the pages, so I could remind myself why I was in pain, why I was anxious, etc. It validated my emotions. I learned to self-validate again by doing this. I highly recommend it for those that are still in the trenches. Just hide it though, somewhere VERY secure. He may find it, if you live together. My memory, now that it has been 6 months, seems a lot better. I hope that helps 🙂
Thank you Indy, that’s very interesting!
When I had a “break” from my exnarc, I started with meditation, and I was very lucky with my teacher.
I felt so much better, forgiving, healing, very quickly … and kind of forgot about the abuse and thought in my “forgiving state” that it could be different in future … (I don’t have to tell you what followed).
So, yes, the journal seems a great idea!!
“The removal of opponents. The acts of flagrant self-interest. The callous disregard for the interests of others. The use of the media to propagate untruths. The diversion of funds. The mistreatment of underlings. The sequestration of assets. I cannot provide too much detail as it will identify what I do.”
Ha ha very clever HG …
HG, you said ” Yes it was a mistake as he could use that against you and it gave him fuel, however at the time it probably prevented malign hoovers from coming your way”. Does this mean that this prevented hoovers because the narc now sees her a weak, “pathetic” and beneath him?
No, it was because it provided positive fuel and thus obviated the need to draw negative fuel.
So if she’s begging and pleading, she gives a positive fuel to narc, right? Is this because this makes him feel wanted and more powerful? What happens if she begs and pleads for a while while he ignores her, and then she all of a sudden goes silent. And he never hears from her again. I assume he’d want to at least reach out just to test the waters? And what if she never responds, even if he’s sending her birthday or holidays wishes which he thinks she will respond to?
Begging and pleading can be positive or negative dependent on how it is done.
“Please don’t hurt me,” said with a fearful expression provides negative fuel.
“I love you don’t go,” said with hope and longing is positive fuel.
It is about creating a sense of power in us.
If she begs and then stops, dependent on other fuel sources available, the narcissist may hoover to try and press for the fuel subject to the Spheres of INfluence and the Hoover Execution Criteria.
If she never responds ultimately then this will raise the bar on the HEC so the likelihood of further hoovers will be reduced and the narcissist will seek fuel elsewhere.
I feel stupid/angry/sad. I wrote a long note after the discard and said I am sorry and took responsibility and acted like he was the best and me the crazy one. And now he has that. Will use that to make me look insane. Did I make a huge mistake? What was I thinking? What do I do?
Hello Miss P, you did what many people did who are of your kind. You tried to find a way to make things work by sacrificing part of yourself. Yes it was a mistake as he could use that against you and it gave him fuel, however at the time it probably prevented malign hoovers from coming your way, It is done now. Now, you know better.
I thought so.. I got a really nice hoover but then I put 2 and 2 together and my friend warned her friend who became his latest girl friend… they didnt break up but he did call to yell while i said I am sleeping – good night. After that he has been nasty, calling me insane.
HI Miss P .
Don’t beat yourself up about the letter . 🙂
I vividly remember sending an email trying to explain my feelings after he continuously triangulated me .
Over 40 unanswered voicemails & a zillion text after discard .
I hated myself after I did, but on reflection who really cares .
Moving on is worth so much more that regretting the past x
Thanks!
Literally don’t worry bout it at all miss P.
He does not matter, only you matter.
We’ve all done things we regret, everybody has.
It’s about how you act now, going forward. Just think how you conduct yourself now. Don’t think about how he or anyone else perceives you. Just put. Big smile on your face and behave how you want others to see you.
And if that fails, do something much worse, you’ll soon forget about that one! I’m kidding re this last sentence obviously.
Interesting as how I am listening to music on YouTube while preparing breakfast this morning and watching the sun rise. Phone in pocket headphones on. My thoughts just flowing and then this voice I recognize, I wasn’t so much listening to the words but listening to the tone of this voice, instent meditative state. Thanks HG, I will say one sentence stood out and it was the video to this particular one that gave me the answer I needed.
I will say your videos are amazing for those that don’t or can’t read. I have one person in particular who loves thems and is finding her answers. I showed them to her and she is starting to have questions. As to her reading and spelling abilities are where they are I informed her of your consultations, to which may be more beneficial for her. Yet I do read your blog to her.
She is starting to smile again, thank you HG.
Good. Thank you for sharing my work, I appreciate that.
HG, another great article. Would you teach us how to confuse, to gaslight a narc?
Assume he is feeling powerful, he discarded you and you are begging for him to take you back. You are analyzing every word he’s said during devaluation, you take the blame, you offer to do anything he wants but he’s still cold and silent. You are in shock, yesterday you were the most amazing person in the world and he could not imagine living without you. Today, you are a piece of trash and he won’t even talk to you. You go through months of despair, trying to reach out to him, begging him yet finding this flip of a persona kinda unusual, so you start reading and learn about narcissism. After a while, you have an AHA moment and you figure out that his new fuel source was being seduced during your devaluation. The whole time of your begging and pleading, you look like a crazy, narc-obsessed fool. How would one reverse the roles here? How would she, without confronting the narc openly, create a sense of confusion in him? So that he started to think, maybe these months of tears and begging were just a game? Maybe she figured out the narc is? Maybe she too is a narc, maybe even a bigger narc than him? He’d think, how could this be, I had her figured out, she was this easy empath. Was she playing me the whole time?
What could she do to gaslight him? To make him feel less omnipotent? To make him doubt himself? All this considering she’s still a nothing in his eyes up to this point That would be an interesting game, would it not be?
And how did you know they were greaters?
I knew because of
1. The positions they held;
2. The things I have seen them do;
3. The way they evaluated matters.
You do not get into the position that those people have nor carry out the acts that they have carried out without possessing the traits of a Greater. It would be beyond anybody else.
What kind of positions?
Thank you for confirming what I suspected about the existence of greaters. I have heard several folks on here say they have engaged with greaters and it made question their understanding of a true greater… I work a lot with people and have only met one that I suspect may be a very high functioning psychopath, and still I wonder if he was a midrange or greater narcissist along with the psychopathy. It is SO rare to have such internal awareness that you have, HG, and I think people need to be reminded of that rareness. It is a psychologists/psychiatrists dream to have that access….its rare indeed.
Indeed Indy. I suspect people may find they are dealing with upper echelon Mid-Rangers rather than true Greaters, but then again, this is a place that is obviously going to draw many people who have been entangled with our kind and therefore the incidence of exposure to greaters would be somewhat higher but not hugely high.
In terms of their positions high-up military/government/industry.
Since I’ve been on the hunt for a greater, I am interested in where they can be spotted. My new hobby is Greater watching.
Could they be in political arenas and executive positions of fortune 500 companies?
Where or where are these elusive creatures???
Why do you want a Greater, Love?
Seeking another greater!! Hahahha Indeed, we all cannot handle another!! 😉
Love,
You want greaters? Go to where the money is. If you cant afford a country club membership, get a job there. Have office skills? Fortune five hundred job. Don’t want to work? Bars closest to financial district. Also ones close to law school, Court, or fortune 500 companies. Fly first class. Look at professors at nearby university, pick one out, go take their class. I would only suggest gym membership if it were at a private club. If you build it, they will come.
Indy, the Greater may be the psychiatrist or psychologist.
Hm, gives me a reason to start seeing one again.
It was very odd, my psychiatrist never billed me. He would get flustered every time I asked about payment. He said his assistant was taking care it. I sent them my insurance info several times. I even offered to pay out of pocket. He insisted I see him at least once a week, but I was never charged. Then I began to have sexual dreams about him. He said it is common for that to happen. I stopped seeing him because it became awkward for me.
Hi Love,
Sexual dreams about ones therapist is very common. I can validate that.
Now, if you are wanting help for something, then going to a psychologist or psychiatrist or a counselor is a good move. However, if you are specifically hunting for narcissists…well…..yeah….go see a therapist too. They can help you stop this hunting. LOL I am sorry, Love, that was not nice of me. (**smacks myself**) I actually really appreciate that you are honest about your desires. Not everyone is honest with themselves about this inner desire, and you are quite open about it. And, it concerns me too, as it is dangerous.
To answer a potential question, are psychiatrists and psychologists prone to narcissism? I do not think as a field as a whole they are, though there are specialties within the field that may have higher rates of it. Are there some, ABSOLUTELY! They exist everywhere. Greaters, though? That would be a very dangerous hunt, my dear. And, this would not be the most efficient place to do your hunting. And, it could be dangerous if you are purposefully looking for a therapist that will invalidate you. That could be very damaging.
Perhaps you are kidding, Love? I really hope you realize you are worth more than being put on a pedestal to just be devalued and mind-f$*ked after. It’s like a drug (oh, boy do I know), and the hangover sometimes turns into an over dose, with no antidote.
With all respect for what ever you choose, Love. Please, though, consider building your own self worth. You are a lovely soft soul. Just nurture her more.
Why not Mr. Tudor? Do you not believe you are worth wanting?
Oh I am, I thought you were king the grave mistake of seeking another greater!
I am fascinated by what kind of acts…are you referring to military strategies you have witnessed? Financial strategies you have witnessed? Political strategies you have witnessed?
The removal of opponents. The acts of flagrant self-interest. The callous disregard for the interests of others. The use of the media to propagate untruths. The diversion of funds. The mistreatment of underlings. The sequestration of assets. I cannot provide too much detail as it will identify what I do.
I love you Indy. You are incredible! We are so blessed to have you here! I am sorry I worry you with my crazy thoughts. Am I kidding about wanting a greater? Yes and no. But I haven’t done anything about it yet.
I have not forgotten to praise you Mr. Tudor. You are magnificent!
Perhaps my way of thinking is wrong but I’ve read that your former IPs have survived your abuse. Some have gone on to lead successful (maybe even happy) lives. Therefore I conclude that the probability for hospitalization or worse based on a greater’s machinations is very low.
Is that a fair statement?
An understandable response Love. Yes there are those who have come out the other side, know either to stay away or to pay the appropriate admiration. Then there are those who did not.
Like Andrea
What happened to Andrea?
HG, was Andrea the outgoing IP at the onset of Kim?
I just know when he needs a quick negative fuel fix, Andrea is on the receiving end, Indy.
Correct.
Because she escaped? Or because she had an affair? Both?
Because she is a muck spreader.
Ah, a mucky yucky…. So, did she escape?
No she was discarded Indy but her behaviour thereafter rather than bow out gracefully meant that she had to be punished.
Did only one escape, how many escaped you?
Wait and see in Asylum of the Grotesque.
I’m really not good at waiting, and I am waiting for a bunch of books from you!!! Damn it, I may need to do an HG 12-step detox after I’m done LOL
It will be worth it, believe me.
That’s what they all say!!!!
Ha ha but you know on past performance it is true!
Aw sweety, you can do better than that!!! Remember, you weaponized me!!!
I am just going to repeat HGs last line….” then there are those who did not”.
Love, it’s hard to know ahead of time which ones will cross that line.
Hi Love,
I’m just like most here, seeking knowledge and healing. I appreciate your kind words and no need to apologize to me. You’re a grown woman and as another woman who is single, I worry. I worry not because I think you’re crazy, I worry because I know how severe mental abuse can be. HG does too. Think of all the tortures that exist in the world…some of the most effective tortures are psychological. Not touching a hair on you. our military hires psychologists to determine how to get secrets out of prisoners.
I know Love, I too love smart ass intelligent men with an edge and a witty sense of humor and nice appearance. Who wouldn’t? Those debates are fun. Those moments when you feel being taken under male “control” is sexy …and with greater narcissists it comes with much much more too.
Do you want ALL of the mental abuse and verbal torture too? Do you want blatant infidelity? Do you want intense anxiety? Crumbling self esteem and sense of self vanishing? Being so drained you think of suicide? They don’t have to touch you to deeply bruise your mind.
Could you list the things you like about this type of relationship? If you do not wish to, I understand. I’m just curious if you have made that list for yourself what you want and need in s relationship? I know I’m going through this process as I prepare to think about dating again. I know I need to look at me or this dance will continue for me.
Yes. I assumed there would be casualties. Yet that percentage is far less than the ones who made it to the other side. I look at the big picture.
I consider myself a casualty, now a survivor. I was not hit once.
Thank you Indy. Your points are very valid. I’ve made many a list … Especially the ones written in heart shaped paper with a picture of a male model attached. This was right after The Secret came out.
As much as I desire peace, I have an unnatural need for mental chaos. I was born into a revolution and had a front row seat to war all before the age of 5.
I understand, Love. It makes sense why you are attracted to chaos. I just do not wish to see you hurt. And, I know you have to do what you feel is best for you now.
Dammit Tude! I now have to read the Assylum of the Grotesque to get the Andrea answer, huh? 😂 You’re brilliant!!!
Yup.
Did those daffodils bloom with their intended message?
Very much so.
Both creepy scary and flowers….sigh I love flowers too, its my thing….is she the one you stalked to no end? Like the whole GPS thing…or is that everyone you engage with?
I do not stalk everyone, I do so far as the fuel requires it to happen.
HG,
Thank you for answering that question, I hope I didn’t offend, as I reread it it sounded like a harsh question. Also, is she the one you used GPS tracking on?
No offence taken. Yes amongst others.
Now tell me about that shoe phone and decoder ring!!! And if you have major powers, a little help with this US-Russia snaffu (not much)…👍🏻😹 Jesus, im gonna be bugged soon if I don’t shut up.
In Vienna, the horses prance anti-clockwise when the blue moon rises.
I said decoder ring FIRST!!! 😂😂😂
Yours appears to have ahem been lost. No officer, I don’t know her, she looks suspicious, best arrest her!
Ok, crosses out spy…looks like a cheap decoder ring anyway..Cracker Jack box toy!!!
Possible military….yeah, that’s…..
‘Wait wait, I know my rights!!!’ ***ahhhhh as she’s dragged to dungeon***
I meant ‘casualty’ in regards to the ones who didn’t make it to the other side, as Mr. Tudor stated. Indy, you are far from that. You are very courageous and strong.
Do you mean causality as in not alive afterwards? Or as in mentally destroyed?
I meant my use of casualty as I was hurt really badly. I had to take medication to get through and seek therapy. I had past trauma feelings resurface. Yes, I’m strong again, perhaps stronger. I just wonder why you wish to go through it and know ahead of time it’s something to “survive”…rather than thrive. I also had to run from my home to a state far away to escape one when younger…stalking is scary. Death threats are scary. I had PTSD from it. Woke screaming in terror for years. I went to therapy for 2 decades. My strength is hard earned sweety, not a path I recommend. And not a path I can tell others not to take either, as I took it.
And, like I said earlier, I respect it’s your choice and your path. we are both about To enter that world of dating, so I do wish you lots of safety and luck and happiness. Lord I know I need it. Lol 😂
I’m confused. Is there also a chapter in a book for the Asylum of the Grotesque? I’ve only read the article https://narcsite.com/2015/11/29/the-asylum-of-the-grotesque/
It just gives a snippet about Andrea. Where can I get more of her story?
In the forthcoming book Love.
Hi Indy. I meant casualty as in mentally destroyed. Mr. Tudor always states they don’t want us dead.
You are a very resilient woman and can take on anything this new chapter will bring.
Lol these men should be more scared of us than we are of them 😉
Hi Love,
I hope you know everything I am saying is fully with respect and caring toward you and love. (((hugs))) I mean no disrespect at all. If I try to get you to see the danger, it is because I am truly scared of what you are hunting for….and I am a person in the mental health field and would not purposefully do your hunt. Not only would I be attracted to them, I would fear their superior cunning and true predator nature. I have great respect for those with sociopathic narcissism and high functioning psychopathy, they are capable of more than you can imagine, more than I can imagine…and I have heard a lot of stories while working in an inpatient facility as well as out patient…
Now, HG….I would like to bring you into this discussion. You DID say that YOU specifically do not wish for anyone dead, due to loss of fuel and if you were caught it would limit your freedom and possible life. Love is correct. She is quoting you as a sign of a level of safety in her hunt. However, you are not implying that ALL greater narcissists are this way, are you? Please clarify. Also, this does not preclude accidental rage death as well…which can happen at all levels. Correct?
There is a very fine line between a very high functioning sociopathic narcissist and a very high functioning psychopath. You cannot rely solely on the hair on the back of the neck reaction always. Diagnostically as well as in the dating world, these are VERY hard to discern.
You are correct Indy. Most Greaters would adopt the same approach as I, but circumstance and those of a lower echelon of Greater may well differ in approach. The causation of death through the consequences of an ignited fury can and does occur with all of our kind in every school.
Thank you for responding to this question as well, HG. Again, the honesty is sooo appreciated. I do not know why, but as I read more of your work and your responses, I feel you are growing (along with all of us). Even if it isn’t the growth others may seek or desire or even imagine, you are definitely evolving. You are quite a fascinating (albeit terrifying and seductive) man. I hope you keep writing and all of us informed on your journey. I am also learning that no matter what one says, some people give a blind eye to danger. Every good therapist knows that it is always the client’s will, not the therapist’s. Thusly, I hope those that read your words take heed and give respect to your generous knowledge as well as your potential lethality. Then, there are those of us that love apex predators. (Thus why I prefer cats over dogs). Now, do not get me wrong, I am not adopting any cheetahs in my home.
Indy the marcher
***We didn’t start the fire!*** aka Billy Joel
Hi Indy!
Have you ever had a patient that you felt logically understood the repercussions of following a certain path (pursuing a toxic relationship), but it was like they were playing emotional Russian roulette? As if they had their own death wish to fulfill?
Oh yes, far more common among cluster B and codependence. This is also a common combination in those with addictions and attachment issues. DBT talks about understanding when you are using logic mind versus emotion mind.
Thanks ABB. I did join a high end gym recently and work with fortune 500 companies. I’ve built a great network of successful professionals. I can identify the narcs, because there are plenty. Yet I have not been able to label any above mid ranger. I’ve come to realize even the brilliant ones do not automatically qualify as a greater. There are tons of cerebrals in my line of profession. Yet all mid.
Mr. Tudor, what is the secret sauce needed to be a greater?
You can glean this from already written works Love and in the fullness of time all in one place when I publish the book about The Greater.
Thank you Mr. Tudor. I’m anxiously waiting. Is my statement correct that intelligence alone is not a factor in affecting the level of narcissism? And you’ve said before the Greater = high functioning sociopath?
Cognitive function is a significant determinant but not the sole one.
Love, they are unicorns. They are the narcissistic sociopaths that are very smart and aware that they are sociopathic narcissists …. very rare. Majority are not aware due to high levels of internal denial.
I’m looking for the formulary of a Greater. My theory is it requires narcissistic traits, high level of intelligence, along with a very devious mind. The narcs I know are incredibly book smart and have narcissistic traits, yet they lack that level of scheming. Their brilliant mind can design a master plan, yet their risk calculation will prevent them from executing it.
I think the secret sauce for a greater is malignancy. They must be wicked.
Ah. Thank you Indy. Would it be fair to say the greater not only has a high IQ but also has high Emotional IQ?
I think that is the missing link with my narc colleagues. They are exceptionally intelligent with 0 emotional awareness.
Hi Love,
Good question!
In my opinion, like all good research, it depends on how you look at it and how you define it. What are your comparison groups? If you are comparing them to the lesser and the mid rangers, I would suspect their EIQ would be relatively stronger(only a hypothesis though). However, when compared to those with internal awareness of a variety of emotions, then not as high. The other part to this is that there are few reliable measures that have be tested for reliability and validity that measure EIQ that have stood the test of time, unlike say Cognitive IQs (which as debatable at times as well) It depends on how you define the construct. Just my 2 cents. 🙂
Thank you Indy. You are right, my point of comparison is limited given that my exposure has only been to lessers and mids. I was once in the office of a professor that I greatly admire. Brilliant mind. I noticed a book about Emotional IQ in his bookshelf. I was surprised thinking why would this man need to learn about EIQ, he knows EVERYTHING!
I love those brilliant professors. Especially if they are approachable and you can engage in all those lovely lofty convos.
Was he in the psych field? He might be studying it. Or, perhaps a therapist? More work needs to be done on how to measure those internal constructs like emotional empathy, cognitive empathy, emotional intelligence, compassion, etc. Until recently, it has been viewed as not as suitable for hard core study, though with more folks out there creating more creative measures and unique ways of obtaining aspects of this info, we will continue to learn more about these things too. As you know, being in stats, there is a lot of crap research out there too…;) Half the fun is weeding through it.
Very interesting. He is a clinical professor of medicine. I am lucky in that I have access to raw data (a whole lot of it) but at least I get to play with it first 😁
So our studies come from primary source data.
Number 9 is so true. This is why I think the greater narcissists are the most dangerous of them all . The mind erosion and loss of bring in touch with reality is terrifying. Being stocked ruthlessly after the break up….the implied actions, the fear of what if, the constant drain from nonstop contradictions and contraryness, memory and mind bends. It’s like a series of optical illusions and you are trying to find the exit out of this not so fun house or haunted maze. I’m quite a strong minded stubborn woman and he wore me down…it’s scary. I love a challenge, always have. But not when you have no clue what the rules are….oh yea, there are none, not for him, just for me…nope, no more.
HG, do you think greaters are exceedingly rare? How many have you met?
Hi Indy, yes Greaters are rare. I would say I have met no more than a dozen, but I do move in circles which mean I am more likely to come across them compared to other people. Of course there is no empirical evidence that exists but the bulk of my brethren are of the lesser and mid range variety.
So true how all this plays out and how we as empaths react to the mind games. It causes exhaustion, confusion and eventually we just want a moment to catch our breathes or to feel happy and whole again. Quite often resulting in pacifying the narcissist and sometimes stockholm syndrome out of constant fear of repercussion. Id agree physical abuse is more obvious where mental abuse is insidious and drawn out over time breaking the victims strength within.
I journal all that happens as far as gaslighting or mind games bc its so easy or convenient to forget but the accumilation of it on paper is a good reminder. It ma not be as obvious as physical abuse but its just as real.
So the games alone do not give you any pleasure? It is only the output (fuel) that gets you all hot and bothered?
The anticipation of what is to come and marvelling at my scheming provide confirmation of my abilities as the fuel begins to flow.
How does that feel for you? Do you get tingly all over? Heart rate increases? Eyes dilate? What is your physiological response?
This is just…………I think you know what I think.
I think I will be going to Maui in the coming month and ponder just how wonderful my life is without the likes of Narcs.
How very sad that this is YOUR achievement. And you seem very proud of it. You go on with your bad self. SMH
I think I lost a comment trying to load it to post. I asked you how much time is allocated on you marvelling at your own schemes? Does this happen in the shower each morning? Daily? Weekly? Between professional life, personal life, blog life, book writing, consults and juggling IP’s with past IP’s, how much scheming do you actually do? I think I asked you once if therapy and interacting on the blog tempered some of this. Now I wonder if it fires you up more in your personal life. If the 5 rules that keep you polite and contained here causes you to have to have an outlet in your personal life?
In terms of marvelling at my own schemes that tends to be in respect of how the current ones are progressing. Thus, if I have a particular campaign ongoing (as I have against the most perfidious Andrea) then when I stare in the mirror I reflect on its continuing success. In terms of how much scheming I do, well it depends on how much scheming is required. My proficiency is such that I am able to get the chess pieces lined up with considerable skill these days. There might be scheming required if I am embarking on a new seduction. There is no scheming when the primary source is embedded and the golden period is being rolled out (unless a previous primary source keeps flailing into view and needs some malign scorching). I have to have an outlet in my personal life, absolutely.
Ah, I see. Interesting. Don’t you think it’s time to cut the tie with Andrea? That has been going on for quite some time. Hammer down the final nail in the coffin on that one.
No. I ma not done yet. The fuel continues to flow.
Who’s a better negative fuel source, Andrea? Or Lesley (It Girl)?
At present it is Andrea.
Just hopping in here, what about Kim? Isn’t she the current main squeeze? I need to read more on your exes, it seems.
She is Indy, she is in devaluation at present (although Christmas has been a Respite – my venom has been directed at MatriNaric).
Oh, an appropriate redirection! Nice! (Needless to say, no one is a fan of MatriNarc here).
I am very curious at what the venom looked like…
You will read about it in due course Indy.
HG: but then you do value (in a twisted way) my kind for our emotions, not only as toys / appliances. Otherwise you could have a talking doll with different programs manifactured for you?
Or how do you combine an appliance you can play with when you’re i the mood and put back into the shelf when not, with the emotional fuel otherwise?
Yes we do “value” you for your emotions but since we believe we are entitled to them we do not actually value them.
I’m playing some mind games of my own. I know who his fat chin lady is, I know her name and number. I sent him a text before Christmas saying “has she figured out the secret you keep yet?” Then blocked him. The gay thing is what I am referring to. I found out she has money, her long term man died last year of cancer so I am sure the narc zoned in on her vulnerability. She’s fucking 60 years old!!! They have been together 9 months now, today I called her number ( no caller id) then called his right after. ( no I’d) I want him paranoid. I plan to warn her but not for several more months because the crazy train they are on has to derail first before I believe she will listen. HG , do you think it will be effective and she will listen? Will my subtle anonymous taunts make him paranoid? Only you know the answer HG, I can only hope.