Love or Hate?
Which do you prefer? Love or hate? This is something that I am asked and of course it is a pertinent question which is relevant to the issue of fuel. When I am asked this question, it tends to be as an adjunct to other considerations such as: –
– Why can’t you just always want the positive fuel from someone? Let them give you love all the time.
– Why does somebody hating you make you feel more powerful than somebody loving you?
– Are you addicted to causing pain so you can get negative fuel from somebody?
So, what do my kind and me prefer? Do we prefer to be loved or do we prefer to be hated? The answer is; it depends on the nature of the appliance.
As I have explained before, the appliances which supply us with fuel are broken down into three groups. Primary, secondary and tertiary. Our attitude as to the type of fuel that is preferred is governed by the source.
Tertiary – this includes groups such as strangers and remote strangers. We are pretty even-handed when it comes to our preference of the type of fuel we receive from those in the tertiary group. Positive fuel is welcomed, so for example we might be complimented on our car by a passing stranger or we may receive an admiring smile because we look good when we get into a lift. Indeed, if we are at an event and we receive acknowledgement and applause from a crowd of people then this is a considerable positive provision of fuel from their admiration. This serves our purpose in receiving fuel and maintain our façade. We are however content to draw negative fuel from strangers for instance by upbraiding a waiter for being slow to serve us or criticising the behaviour of somebody in the street. Their reaction of indignance, annoyance or upset will provide us with negative fuel and in many instances treating somebody in this manner will not damage our façade as we will be selective as to when we engage in this. Keep in mind that often we will seek a negative reaction even though that person has not done anything wrong, as this amplifies their emotional response. If the waiter has been slow, he will apologise as he recognises his service has been sub-standard. This provides fuel. If he has been prompt but it is denigrated for his service and it is done in a haughty and arrogant manner, he will not be able to keep his expression from belying his real feelings (even if he doesn’t air them) and thus the fuel garnered is even greater. It is even better if he erupts and is unable to keep his feelings under control as the fuel will burst from him.
This treatment of a tertiary source in this manner is often done as part of a triangulation. It will be done to impress another source that is with us, possibly a group of inner circle friends or the intimate partner. Thus we exhibit our confidence and lack of acceptance for shoddy service. The tertiary source provides fuel from being criticised and the other source provides a positive response for seeing us acting in such a masterful and demanding way. Even if the other source does not approve of how we have spoken to someone and reacts to us, it does not matter, because, yes, you’ve guessed it, it is yet more fuel.
Since the tertiary source is not someone we rely on for repeated provision of fuel it does not matter to us if they withdraw and will not have anything to do with us ever again. It is not hard to engage with tertiary sources as they are everywhere. We do not need to seduce them or cultivate a relationship with them in order to draw fuel. Tertiary sources either provide it just by seeing us or at the slight prompt from a comment or remark from us, whether it is positive or negative.
Secondary – we prefer positive fuel from our secondary sources. The secondary sources include colleagues, friends and family membesr. This is not to say that negative fuel is not collected from secondary sources, it is and I shall deal with that below, but it is usually positive fuel that we take from our secondary sources. We do this because the secondary sources are where our coterie comes from and where our Lieutenants lurk. By treating them well we secure their obedience (although sometimes we may need to lash out to ensure compliance) and therefore we are more likely to achieve what we want. As I have explained in the past, we draw three main things from our victims (and by victim I mean everybody we interact with)
- Fuel;
- Traits and characteristics for our construct to claim as our own;
- Residual benefits (money, accommodation, resources, assistance)
Whilst these can be obtained from tertiary sources, that group is mainly reserved for the provision of fuel.
The secondary sources provide all three of the above and therefore by keeping them around and ensuring that they like, love and adore us, we are more likely to achieve the receipt of these three items.
The secondary source is where the façade comes from. Accordingly, we do not want a range of people hating us and agreeing with you as the primary source. We want a solid and loyal wall of people who are in complete agreement that we are decent and wonderful.
We also do not rely on the fuel provision from secondary sources anywhere near as much as we do from the primary source. This is for two reasons:
- There are more people who can be secondary sources. In theory, the number is limitless; and
- We see the secondary sources less often, speak to them less often, message them less often than the primary source.
Thus we have variety and less reliance which means that it is almost impossible that we will find the fuel of one secondary source to be stale which would result in discard. Indeed, the discard of a secondary source is more likely to happen because they have worked us out and do not wish to engage with us anymore (thus they stop providing fuel altogether) or they have moved away and our interaction is so intermittent as to be useless to us. A further reason for the discard of the secondary source is if they defy our instructions and become a traitor. We may devalue them but it usually is far more effective to cut them adrift and recruit somebody else. This will happen to a family member who turns against us, or a friend is disloyal. They will be isolated, shunned and used to triangulate with – “Do what I want or you will end up like Peter, remember him? Nobody sees him around these days after what he did.”
We are rarely short of being able to attract new appliances to be our secondary sources.
Accordingly, for these reasons we are far more likely to draw positive fuel from the secondary sources and we prefer for them to adore us, admire us and love us. We may draw sexual partners from the secondary sources. They will not be crowned as a primary source but rather this will be done to keep them close to us, to coerce them to do our bidding and of course to provide us with fuel during the sexual act.
Thus, it is secondary sources who can find themselves in almost perpetual golden periods as they keep providing us with positive fuel.
Primary – this is the group that most people find themselves in when they have had an encounter with our kind. In terms of the reaction we want from our primary source (who is almost always an intimate partner) we of course want a positive one. We hope that this lasts forever because the primary source, as the name suggests, is the appliance which gives us the most fuel, most often and to the highest degree. With such a high standard to maintain in terms of amount, frequency and potency, the primary source is also the appliance which runs the greatest risk of malfunctioning and that fuel dropping off. It may be less, it may not be provided as often as it should and/or its potency may well have been reduced, either because it has become too familiar and/or the provider is not making the effort to maintain its potency.
You may think that when this happens, why not just discard and put in place a new primary source who will start with new positive fuel afresh? A valid question. We do not because: –
- This would take time and therefore we would be without a primary source for a certain length of time. Our fuel levels would drop and this would be detrimental to us.
- There needs to be a near seamless shift between primary sources. This would not happen in the scenario above.
- You must be punished for failing us, hence the devaluation.
- The negative fuel is very powerful. Of course, we cannot draw that straight away from a primary source otherwise if we commenced the relationship by hurting somebody they would leave us and thus the fuel source would be lost. We need to bind you to us first through the seduction and golden period so that when the devaluation begins you will not depart but rather stay and provide us with the negative fuel.
- The negative fuel provides us with the power to seduce a replacement primary source which we will attach and then discard you.
- The negative fuel is so powerful because it is harder to make someone cry, become angry, frustrated and so forth compared to the presentation of positive emotions. Being able to do this to someone underlines the nature of our power over the primary source.
- The negative fuel is powerful because of the contrast it affords us when compared to the positive fuel.
Since the primary source is the person who provides us with most of our fuel, it is they who are subjected to this need for both positive and negative fuel. We also keep moving between the two (the contrast causing the fuel to remain potent) and this is why we switch so often and seemingly without warning.
So, do we want you to love us or hate us? It all depends on where you fit into the various appliances that we have attached to us.
60 thoughts on “Love or Hate?”
Vent Your Spleen! (Please see the Rules in Formal Info)
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Dear HG, you said that for a hoover to take place, both a hoover trigger and HEC must be met. A while ago, I sent a text to my narc and he responded that he had just been thinking about me the day before. It sounds like the hoover trigger was met and I think HEC would have been as well. I am a good source of fuel for him. So how come he did not contact me first. Was he lying about thinking about me the day before? Just trying to be nice? I was an IP secondary source or dirty secret. I don’t believe I have been discarded. He is currently with the new primary source, most likely still in the golden period. Not sure if hoover triggers and HEC even apply in this situation. Thank you!
Hello IL, it was likely he was lying and responded this way to butter you up.
While there’s life, there’s hope! 🙂
Dear HG, funny how you said, “if the new IPPS is devalued” with full knowledge it won’t be a matter of “if” but of “when.” Is a different outcome possible?
Each time there is an new IPPS I apply if rather than when. So far it has all been when though.
I mean no disrespect, but it is the codependency that will kill us, not necessarily the Narcissists. We have some choices as long as we have the understanding. It is not easy to change, but at least we can try to do so, and not simply resign ourselves to being “delicious fuel” for Narcs. There really in no glamour in being so in the end. I do not take pride in my tombstone saying: “She was delicious fuel for Narcissists.” Sadly, this will kill us mentally, spiritually, and emotionally, long before we ever even hit our graves. I am trying to learn by reading M. Tudor’s books, and not read his books to learn how to “better feed him”. I want to leave this vicious cycle and dance between the codependent and the Narc before I no longer care, anymore!
Good morning HG,
Do you sleep with many of your secondary sources?
Do they make good lieutenants for you?
Have you ever had to get rid of one because they were a traitor?
I never sleep with the male ones.
I sleep with many as they make their way through the promotions as part of being considered to become an IPPS.
I have many Lieutenants who are NISS and a couple who are IPSS.
I have had to discard less than half a dozen traitorous secondary sources.
I do love your honesty HG.
It’s amazing how it’s all a game and we never have a clue as to what is going on.
I like how you have tryouts and promotions.
Thanks SW.
“I sleep with “many.”
It seems so childish after a certain age. I get grossed out with body fluids from just anyone.
I would say you are addicted to sex.
Tsk tsk tsk
Truthfully HG, at one time, I found you intriguing, alluring, and someone to use in my fantasies. The more I read, the more I am turned off to your kind.
I do not care how good looking a man is, if I KNOW he sleeps with “many” and by his own admission, then I can not see him through the same eyes. I have turned down a few that wanted to brag.
I have had some handsome men in my life who rocked my world. I knew they had many, but they bragged about it.
A man doesn’t want to know all the conquests of a woman so why would we. I know you tell us on this blog because you will never have contact with us in real life. But there are some things you do not need to answer. Sometimes honesty is not the best policy. Save some of the mystery.
Fact: STD’s are on the rise due to internet connections and the ability to access more people. Oh, I am sure you will say you have never caught anything or you get checked. But I would like to see your medical records. To sleep with so many, it is just inevitable. If you say you never have, then I will stand up and CLAP for you. A little pun.
AH OH, i was thinking the exact same thing when i read that! “I sleep with many” lol! I too, despise bodily fluids, and never engage in sexual union with the person i love unless he uses a bidet or showers first. I do the same so i can surely expect that from him.
When i read ‘Sex and the Narcissist’ and read about HG pleasuring his new target after returning from a dinner date, i was thinking, there are no bidets at restaurants. He is ingesting her urine. Yuck!
Among other things. I know just how nasty women can be but I am sure HG only targets the best. But then again some men like funk.
Lol!! I know some physicians (female) that need to examine in the private area of female patients and they all say it is unclean, and odorous. Please shower or use a bidet ladies! HG, does it not bother you?
Heck, Codependents, I am not even a Narcissist, and even I feel like manipulating the hell out of you.
That’s not like you W. ❤
I am just trying to make a point. You are right, Love <3, this is not like me. But, it saddens me to see such resignation. Being a Codependent almost killed me, and I don't like to see it doing the same to others. To be killed, before the body even dies, is very painful. Thank you, Love <3
I feel angry because I care. I care about all of us.
BTW, I have some Florida property I am selling for only $100.00- free of Alligators, too.
I will buy it if it is in South Beach Miami
My narc says he hates it when i cry. He prefers to keep the peace. He hates it when we argue as well. Is this possible HG?
I would regard it PANA as exerting further control over you and evidence of blame-shifting – if you cry, it is your fault, if there is an argument, it is your fault because he wants to keep the peace.
Blame shifting, ok! But why is it that my narc doesn’t prefer negative fuel? Can some narcs only prefer positive fuel, especially passive mid-rangers?
But he does. He likes your hurt, your tears, your anger, your confusion. He just says he does not in order to keep you thinking he is a “good” person.
I truly believed that he doesn’t like negative fuel, especially because after an argument (me requesting more of his time than he’s willing to give), he usually goes silent for days. He said he goes silent because he wants to avoid arguments. I’m a little confused.
And what do you do when he goes silent?
HG, i learned from you just to wait patiently when he goes silent. So that’s what i do. He usually contacts me after 3-6 days. One time it took him 10 days though.
Indeed and what did you used to do before learning from me?
Before learning frm you HG, i used to contact him after approx 2 days, apologizing if i have upset him, and suggest we come to a mutual resolution. He would usually agree, and ask me to smile at the end of the resolution.
So did you wait for two days and then contact him?
Yes HG.
Have you discarded someone and then regretted it because the previous partner provided better fuel? Do you ever miss anyone as a person and not as an appliance? I have been reading your books. They have been very helpful. I have a hard time believing that your heart isn’t being warmed by helping others. Your soul is in your work. Somehow I think this is balancing out your karma.
Thank you Mamaenfp, I am pleased that you find the books helpful. I can look back over the various relationships and identify those individual who provided better fuel than others but at the time the individual was discarded for the right reasons (from my perspective) and their replacement was at the time one who provided excellent fuel and therefore there was no regret.
Does that work both ways with the negative fuel? I mean, do you have your favorite sources you return to for Hoovers because you relish the conflict with them?
You’ve mentioned Andrea is on the receiving end of this right now. And Kim is on a respite but in devalue. At some point if a new IP is chosen, does Kim automatically replace Andrea to be the flow of where negative fuel comes in because of pecking order and being an interchangeable appliance? Or would Andrea still remain the viable source for negative fuel?
The potency of the hoover fuel is one of the factors in determining whether the Hoover Execution Criteria is met Clarece.
1. When Kim is replaced I will be preoccupied with the new source and unless Kim keeps ‘popping up’ or does something during devaluation to warrant the unleashing of malice, she will be left alone.
2. The campaign against Andrea may continue during the new IPPS’ coronation, subject to timing.
3. So no, Kim would not automatically replace Andrea. Indeed if the new IPPS is devalued I may not turn to Kim if the Hoover Triggers and HEC point to a more viable source to hoover.
HG, what is your pseudo name (that you can use here) for kim’s replacement? How much time do you spend with her? I am assuming she is near promotion to ipps, correct? Are you loving her fuel since it is coming frm a new and shiny appliance?
There are two potential candidates for replacement. Neither are near to promotion. The fuel being provided is potent. It remains to be seen which will best the other and be crowned.
Thank you for sharing with us.
You are welcome.
Maybe I just have a hard time accepting that he could be enjoying someone else more than me. Especially when I’ve seen some of them. Maybe that’s the narcissist in me talking. Sigh. I know in my heart I gave him 110% whether he sees it that way or not. 😕 thank you for your honesty.
Indeed you did and remember it is our perspective which alters matters, not yours.
Will you share with us the final rose ceremony? Can you write about it like the Bachelor?
Excerpt:
“Standing before me are two lovely ladies. One a super empath, the other a codependent … Both have shown great determination, dedication, devotion, and perseverance. As much as I enjoy feasting on both of your fuels, only one of you can have the honor of being my IPPS…”
I like your style there Love, indeed I shall be furnishing you with more detail about this ongoing situation.
Oh Mr. Tudor! How did live without you in my life??? Thank you for being here now and thank you for making my days brighter ❤
Thank you Love.
I see…. so, who is on first base HG?
It varies.
If an IP you’ve devalued/discarded wants to become a Secondary Source (as a friend) with you in the future, can your kind ever forgive and forget?
MOst readily Hope if the fuel dictates that that would be the best outcome.
👏👏👏 good boy HG! Forgive and forget!
It is only done to the extent that it serves my purposes. And do you really think I truly forgive and forget?
HG,
Forgive – perhaps no
Forget – yes
Am i correct?
I neither forgive or forget but will generate the appearance of doing so if it serves my needs. I will tell you that you are forgiven, so you are relieved, give me fuel and do what I want. I do not forgive you really because I know you are treacherous and not to be trusted (not you specifically PANA but appliances)
Thank you for your reply HG. It amuses me every time you refer to us as ‘treacherous’, ‘traitors’ etc. 😂(when we really try our best).
Can a narcissist have more than one primary source of supply at the same time?
Hello Ren, no they cannot. They can alternate between primary sources, but there can be only one as a Frenchman playing a Scotsman (in a film with a Scotsman playing an Egyptian) once said!
Highlander!
I get very frustrated with the ethnic type casting in movies.
I could not finish Gods of Egypt for that reason.
I still dont get it – with the Primary source – which is more potent?
Hello Miss P, have you read Fuel?