The Narcissistic Truths – No 117
46 thoughts on “The Narcissistic Truths – No 117”
Vent Your Spleen! (Please see the Rules in Formal Info)
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HG fighting talk lol, look who is behind empowering the empath.
Indeed.
I acknowledge that 🙂 … I had watched endless hours of witness accounts and therapists’ points of view as well as read your competitor’s opus, prior to stumbling upon your work… the full range of abuse, presented from all angles… your approach is the most precise and direct one, which is why I enjoy it the most. So, thank you for the time you put into sharing your expertise! Your effort has already borne fruit 🙂
Thank you Matilda.
I find it fascinating that narcs believe they had any kind of power over empaths. When we look at the reality of the situation, it is glaringly obvious that the empath is the one ENABLING the narc’s behaviour, and the empath is the one ENDING this ridiculous game!
The only reason why narcs get away with it, is because most empaths are clueless. For now, narcs can indulge in their delusions of grandeur, and dreams of omnipotence, but their days are numbered. We will see to it!
Fighting talk!
I am not interested in fighting… I want to keep others safe from harm. Knowledge is power!
Matilda:
yes, some narcs are really just pathetic (and boring …) and we get some good examples for that, here, too. Not you, HG!! Last one who tried me lasted one phone call and that was just because I was bored while doing some boring stuff on my computer. And so on.
And then there are narcs who are something else. Yes, you, HG!
And those are those that bring me to a point where I experience some kind of …. my own mirror and it’s kind of enlightening for me… because it’s the exact opposite. Don’t know how to describe it.
A lot of it was my own doing and my own short comings, that’s true.
However, I still choose who I engage with and I choose boundaries. That those weren’t well enough in the beginning is because I had not been aquainted yet with that more intelligent (and more cunning) type of narcissist. But that has changed over time, my behavior didn’t work for him anymore.
I’ve thought a lot about it. My ex-narc still has his own personality (or default mask, whatever), he didn’t create his business nor his long-term studies of my favorite subjects out of thin air for me, nor his style of clothing, his fitness, his eating habits or his sense of humour (be it fake or not) or eloquence.
Ava101,
“my own mirror and it’s kind of enlightening for me… because it’s the exact opposite”
I know what you mean.
It was a battle of wills with my narc. I got under his skin because we were equals in a way. I think narcs and empaths are moulded from the same clay, that is why we are attracted to each other!!
Both of us were hurt deeply, but we developed in opposite directions. I understand where the fury comes from. Anger has been my driving force as well. But I would never hurt the innocent, and there is no excuse whatsoever for it!
100% Matilda. Couldn’t describe it any better. 🙂
Moulded from the same clay … yes, that’s a good way to put it.
I think there are two basic survival mechanisms, the one is “I’m better off with a group of people”, the other one “I’d better not rely on other people”. No idea why people develop in these different directions, even in the same family. And now comes the same paradoxon again: the ones who think they are better off alone are the ones who need others, and v.v.
😉
The middle would be good.
I will never admit that it hurts. Stoic…at least on the outside.
1J1,
All the pent up feelings are gonna come out eventually. Hopefully you’ll snap at a red wings game and a hockey fight will ensue! Against Colorado of course.
ABB…They come out on me. The alumni game against the Leafs was entertaining. Our Lions are out of it this year..again.
1J1,
I watched the sad story last night. Must be the empath in me that keeps hoping they are going to win a superbowl for us, but noooo future faked again!
***not my kind*** typo
Hi Bloody!
Excellent description of all the internal chemistry that leads to this addiction!!
I had a question on my kind for you the other day, I think it was in discussion with MLA and HG and wanted your input too. It had to do with The current confusion I am finding in the psychology and psychiatry field on how to distinguish consistently between the various subtypes within antisocial personality disorder, referred to as sociopathy and psychopathy by many. I have been finding and my hunt that no one consistently sticks to one or two differentiators between these two groupings. Some say for example that sociopathy has a higher level of impulse control, awareness of morals, just disregard for them, and cognitive ability while others say that psychopathy has the higher control. It is so damn messy, these labels. I have come to the conclusion that it is ridiculous to box people into diagnostic labels and to just focus on individual behavioral traits and each person. However it is helpful for clinicians as a whole to be able to have some inkling of who is more at risk for more lethal outcomes. What’s your take on this? Do you have any recommended leads on authors in this field and research? I recall on a post a month or two ago you detailed some lovely information and figured you might have this information as well. Most appreciative.
I love these discussions, Indy. I learn a lot from you!!
Me too MLA!! I admire your ability to wrap your mind around this stuff, bring excellent insights and simultaneously seem to have a lovely empathic soul. I learn a lot from you, as well 🙂
You are much too kind and that is deeply appreciated!!
Hi Indy,
The fact is, clinicians do not really have an inkling or a clear understanding of those who suffer with anti-social personality disorder, which includes socios and psychos.
From everything I have read, the biggest distinction made by clinicians between socios and psychos is that socios are created through their environment (which also includes heredity and being raised largely by socios), while psychos are labelled such based on how their brains are wired (through analysis of brain scans, etc).
Frankly, neither term is particularly well-defined in psych literature, so there is a lot of misconception (especially about our supposed predisposition to become murderers/violent criminals) and confusion about both.
When it comes to behavior, the behaviour exhibited by both socios and psychos tends to be quite similar. As a point of clarification, socios do not have a higher level of impulse control, in fact, it is quite the opposite. Socios tend to be quite impulsive and erratic in their behaviour.
Some clinicians have noted that while psychos typically cannot form attachments to anyone or anything, socios can, in some instances, are able form attachments to like-minded individuals or groups.
Psychos are better at maintaining the façade than socios and are far more likely to be able to hold down a steady job than some socios.
Keeping in mind, everyone is different and understanding of our kind is remedial at best.
Why not check out Dr. Robert Hare – he developed the psychopathy checklist and is quite knowledgeable. I do not agree with all of his research, but he does present some good food for thought.
Thank you BE!
I hope your New Years is going well, I too have missed seeing you around here and missed your input. I will check him out more in depth.
Though I am not surprise you missed me, it is always nice to hear it just the same 😉
You are my #1 Point Getter, Indy. 🙂
Indy,
I was raised by narc sociopath My sociopathic way was developed by watching my Father manipulate con, lie, cheat, steal…etc. Sometimes I was involved in the scams with him. Surely a Father with a cute little girl could be trusted. I learned how to think like him. I don’t act on that behavior as much anymore. I think the facade is easy to maintain as a sociopath. You believe your own lies and the sense of no conscience is there. I got my conscience later on. But I do not think that sociopaths have any trouble maintaining a facade. To me psychopath has no conscience, no maneuverability in the behavior. I think psychopath has full control because they have zero remorse. Are devoid of all feeling and truly robotic. Sociopathic behavior can be switched on and off, at least for me. I can see the openings for say a criminal offense but choose to not act. So I think that looking at behavioural patterns from 12 to 16 are where they manifest the highest. You may kill animals or be very sadistic prior to that age as psychopath but sociopathic ones steal, lie, cheat, runaway, fight, etc in 12 to 16 age range. Classification of behavior to me is not as important as the symptoms. Treat the symptoms. Not everyone fits into that neat little box.
MLC
Very interesting content on dopamine. I am doing my own research on this.
My father was diagnosed with Parkinson’s this last year. Not much is known about it really but it is suggested dopamine is no longer produced. My parents have been married 52 years and my mom has destroyed my father.
He had a heart attack at 55 with quadruple bypass surgery. She did not finish him of them so she hit his nervous system. I believe he no longer produces dopamine because he is now shut down.
Curious HG do you think you still make dopamine in your system?
Hello SII, I believe I do, yes.
Dont like the 6 but looove the 7?
It hurts differently now… before the pain was about me… now it’s about You… Funny enough it’s more bearable despite being multipled since discovering Your blog and books… it is there but in different dimension…
So much pain that is felt, at times it almost is consuming. Projected pain is the worst, to look into another and know, then to “see” the how and why it’s there.
Double pain.
Exactly. 🙁
I cried a lot from the Narcissist. But, I am done crying now 😊
That’s great, WP.
I had cried so much that my eyes were literally inflamed.
Please don’t cry, anymore, Ava 😥
I don’t. It’s been a long time. 🙂
Thank you. 🙂
*************************************************************************
“Always be yourself unless you can be a unicorn. Then always be a unicorn.”
🌈🌈🌈
If you want the instant gratification of a reaction, then yes it does. But eventually it pushes us away.
That is true Clarece, but then when you pull away, we view it as your failure to live up to our expectations/inability to provide us with what we want. The thought that your pulling away could have anything to do with our treatment of you never enters our mind.
I have been doing research on whether or not Narcs, Socios and Psychos can ever be rehabilitated and it laughable because A) many either do not know what they are and are unaware there is something to rehabilitate in the first place or B) some are aware and have absolutely no interest in changing because we excel at being who and what we are and it works for us.
I find the pull I have on people in my life fascinating. They have experienced the best and worst of what I have to give and although the worst has left them wounded, they keep coming back for more because they want another taste of the best.
It is a vicious circle and one that is damn near impossible to escape. Which is why I can say I do have a certain……respect I suppose, for those who are able to escape and stay No Contact.
I hope you do realize that there has been many kings with supreme power before you and no one ever lasted. Therefore you will neither. You have not find the real purpose of your life! Because you are too busy for the fuel to survive. But remember one day you will stop breathing no matter how much fuel you have. Are you ready for that? Have you ever thought why you giving a life in this world? Just to do whatever you feel like. Yes you can shit whenever you want but you are also liable for everything you do. God given us freewill cuz he knows it’s temporary at the end of the day you will have nothing till you ask yourself what’s the purpose of my life.
Romeo,
I know the purpose of my life – to do what I want, when I want, with whom I want, whenever I want. I live my life on my terms and I use my free will to pursue endeavours, engage in all manner of activities AND make decisions that are best for me and me alone.
I live the life I want to live.
It is true I will die some day but much of what I have done and have yet to do will ensure that I am remembered long after I depart the mortal world.
It is also true those King and Queens you mentioned did not last, physically anyway, but their legacies and memories remain deeply entrenched in the annals of history, just as they intended.
It is apt you bring god into this, as he is one of my favourite narcissists of all! If it is true that god made me, and true that he gives us purpose, then, by your theory and belief, am I not doing exactly what I was created to do?
Bloody!!!! Happy New Year!!!!
Let me ask you this if I may then. What are your thoughts on the chemical reaction between two people in these kinds of relationships that creates the toxic addiction to each other? Or in your case, do you feel that as strongly with all / any / certain ones? What I mean is for a long time, after JN would dole out his silent treatments (each one getting longer), when I would then hear from him, that wave of relief that would wash over me, even if I got more angry at him for pulling that, I would feel that relief and I know the dopamine was pumping through every cell in my body. However on the other side, the dopamine is released when the Narc typically is doling out the mistreatment and devaluing behaviors.
If someone went NC with you for a long period of time and you finally wore them down and got them to cave, do you, yourself feel what would probably be that rush of power (or dopamine pumping through you)? Has there ever been anyone who got under your skin? Or are they just like cardboard cutouts?
Happy New Year to you too, Clarece.
No, not cardboard cutouts because every person is unique. No one person provides me what I want in the same way and that is a good thing because, no matter how potent the fuel is, I would become bored incredibly quickly if it was always surrendered the same way.
So far, no one I have been involved with has been able to stay away from me or resist me for what I would call a “long period of time.” If that does happen, I will certainly let you know how it makes me feel/affects me.
Yes, I do feel a sense of power when I lure someone back in. It is akin to striking a match (the point where I begin to break them down), setting that match to a tiny pile of sticks and letting it catch (the point where it becomes obvious they will come back to me) and then watching the entire house become engulfed in flames (the point where they are mine again and my power and magnificence is reiterated).
I absolutely concur with the point you made about the chemical reactions created between us and you. It completely makes sense that you would feel relief (through your anger) at the silent treatment ending and your relief was probably stronger than your anger in that moment.
Your reference is to dopamine is dead on, Clarece. Dopamine (the same neurotransmitter that is responsible for cocaine addiction) is also responsible for the addiction to dangerous romantic partners.
According to Harvard Health, both drugs and intense, pleasurable memories trigger dopamine and create reward circuits in the brain, essentially telling the brain to “do it again.” So when you think back to all the wonderful times with your Narc, your brain releases a chemical that essentially tells you to do it again and again and again thus creating what I imagine would be a difficult internal battle (head vs heart perhaps?)
Add to that chemicals like oxytocin (a hormone known famously as the “cuddle” or “love hormone) which is released during touching, orgasm and sexual intercourse (which we excel at); Cortisol (a stress hormone that gets released during the traumatic highs and lows); and Adrenaline and Norepinephrine which are released during “fight or flight”.
Adrenaline also promotes an antidepressant effect, triggering fear and anxiety which then releases dopamine and this can cause you to become “adrenaline junkies,” addicted to the rush of constantly vacillating between bonding and betrayal.
Essentially, a relationship between our kind and your kind is a green light for all-out chemical warfare.
I spent two months researching those chemicals involved initially sparked by an article in 2015 in Psychology Today on the release of dopamine in misogynists when they are being hurtful to a female. It is on a subconscious level and their brain is basically rewarding whatever bad behavior they did on a subconscious level. It becomes a cycle to repeat without them even understanding why. So yes, all of them, cortisol, adrenaline, oxcytocin, etc., create love junkies that become addicted to this rush on both sides.
It is so primal when you tie in some Carl Jung philosophy on attracting into your world what your subconscious needs to heal, and Laws of Attraction that like attracts like. So naturally, hurt attracts hurt. Then there’s the intergalactic, avatar, caliber sex this yields. Is it really any wonder the dance doesn’t end until one takes their last breath?
And HG thinks the fuel would be skewed if someone knew ahead of time what he was about. It would level the playing field because he would meet his match being challenged, yet still adored.
MLA: very good. That’s what I meant when I said that I don’t believe in etherial (or what was the word) ties, etc. But in patterns & neurotransmitters.
Have you ever read anything on how abuse changes the brain to create what is usually termed “paranormal”, as e. g. telekinesis is supposed to be closely linked to serotonin and also happens often after abuse?
Hello! Not on telekinesis per say. I’ve read more about how the brain is affected and can change after experiencing trauma (emotional and physical). Definitely something to check on. Thanks!!
MLA: Please keep me updated, as I couldn’t find anything on that. I’ve from one of the most “famous” researchers of paranormal stuff that almost always when there had been a “poltergeist” phenomenon reported, a person (mainly women) with a history of abuse had been involved, and also people with epilepsy.
He said similar things on people who came to him because of alien abductions …
Hm… now that I think about it … narcs certainly seem like aliens. 😉
I know that my brain has changed, I did everything in my power to reprogram it. Can hardly remember the abuse anymore, or rather, I remember without feeling too much, just a faint memory.
But I still have trouble concentrating and sometimes with memory. Not all of the time, but I’m not as before.
That’s why I regard verbal and emotional abuse as physical violence, too, as the PTSD, sometimes even together with psychotic symptoms, is a physical fact.
The addiction is real, too, as you have pointed out.
It’s as if the narc had managed to dump his own rewiring after abuse on his victim.
It hurts that I am in love with Christian Bok(Poet)the cerebral narcissist and Christian Bok(Model) the somatic narcissist…now if I could somehow combine the two……
CB1+CB2=HG Tudor? I’m getting Dr. Frankenstein on the line now!
I’m sorry that’s what you learned HG.
That’s not how it’s supposed to be.