The Lesser Narcissist – Five Facts
I have come across these five questions on a number of occasions. They are often regarded as the five fundamental queries which are raised about our behaviour. They are usually answered in a forthright manner by certain commentators in order to drive the message home. However, these observations and answers are provided by people who are not of our kind. They are naturally entitled to comment but the true value arises from someone who is on the other side of the fence, the perpetrator of the actions, the doer. Furthermore, the usual observations are provided without regard to the fact that narcissists are both similar yet different because we operate in certain schools which are linked to our degree of functioning and malign outlook. Accordingly, the traditional answer provided to one of these questions may be correct for the greater of our kind, but not for the mid-range or for the lesser narcissist. Here are the five answers to the five central questions, beginning with those of our kind who are from the lesser school.
- Do we know what we are doing?
The lesser does not know. He or she is a creature of knee-jerk reactions, impulse responses and almost machine like programming. The lesser narcissist behaves in his or her manner as a matter of routine response. Push button A and you will get response A. Push button B and you will get response B. It is an unsophisticated system for an unsophisticated person. The lesser narcissist is something of a blunt instrument and has no understanding as to why he or she acts in this way. Out of all of our kind if you try to get a lesser to understand what they are doing, that they must realise what is happening and they are aware of their behaviour, you really may as well go and find a brick wall and slam your head against it as it will be more productive. The lesser does not know and your questions will only serve to enrage him for yes, again reasons he does not know, only that he knows he does not like your questions and he wants you stop asking them so you had better do so or else.
- Do you know that you are hurting people?
The lesser may be low-functioning but he or she will know that he or she is hurting people some of the time, but not always. They are not so stupid as not to not recognise that whatever he or she is doing is causing pain, distress and upset to somebody else but there will be occasions where that recognition is totally absent and the Lesser is not pretending that he does not see that you are hurt and that it is his action which has caused this, he really does not realise that you can be hurt by what he has done.
They recognise some of these emotions even though they do not feel those emotions themselves. They see the product of their behaviours and like all of our kind extract fuel from this although they will not understand that this is what they are doing. They will not recognise the concept of fuel. Instead the lesser narcissist will just regard the reaction of the victim as their own fault and they deserved it because they did something the narcissist did not like. The lesser often cannot even point to what it is that the victim has done that has provoked the annoyance, the irritation and the ignition of fury and being invited to do so just increases the hostile reaction. There are occasions when the lesser will respond sometimes with something specific but more often with a general expression along the lines of:
“You just wind me up.”
“You know how to push my buttons.”
“You get on my nerves.”
“You really bug me sometimes.”
The lesser experiences the irritation, the annoyance and the ignition of fury but does not know why and therefore he is not in a position to tell you what it is that has caused him to hurt you, but he just has to, because once he has, the irritation and so forth recedes. He has gathered fuel and addresses the restlessness that comes with the low provision. He has gathered fuel and repaired the wound caused by your criticism (real or more likely perceived) but he doesn’t not know that this is the process. He sees the hurt he causes but has no idea why he is doing it. There are also many occasions where the Lesser will not even realise that the hurt is being caused. Lacking any empathy whatsoever (not possessing the cognitive empathy which Mid Range and Greater Narcissists use to fake empathy) the Lesser will see you crying and just give you a blank look as he has no idea at all why you should be upset. It just does not compute.
- Is the behaviour deliberate?
With the lesser it is not deliberate. He or she does not plan to respond in the way that he or she does, it just happens. There is no scheming or plotting with the lesser narcissist, they are not of sufficient function to achieve this. In the same way that if you are hit on the knee with a small hammer there will (usually) be a reflexive action, it is the same for the lesser. He needs fuel, although he does not realise this. He needs to provoke you but again does not realise this. He just reacts and responds. He is a victim of some unseen and unknown higher force that causes him to react. He is already programmed this way but has not been granted any insight or understanding into why he acts as he does. This is why the lesser narcissist will never accept there is anything wrong with him, why he will never admit that he is defective in some way and why he will never concede that he is a narcissist. This is how he is. Isn’t everyone else this way as well? He has no ability to recognise what he is doing. I appreciate that this is often one of the hardest things for a victim to understand. Surely the narcissist knows what he or she is doing? How can they not see it? If you can, why can’t they? This is because they have been wired in a different way to you and with a lesser narcissist this means that their world view is so different that they consider it the only way that people behave and that there is nothing wrong with it.
- Can you control it?
In the same way that you might think that the lesser narcissist must surely understand what they are doing, you would expect that they can control it. The answer is that they cannot. As I have explained, their responses are programmed and they do not act in the same way as you. It is knee-jerk, immediate and automatic. For instance, let us say that you are walking along the street when you see a large man running towards you. You will do the following:
- Regard the behaviour that you can see;
- Evaluate what that behaviour means;
- Consider the range of responses available to you;
- Consider the most appropriate to the situation;
- Consider the consequence of such action;
- Execute your response.
Thus you realise the man is just out jogging because as he nears you he is wearing sports kit and headphones, so you keep on walking and smile at him, he returns the smile and all is well.
The lesser narcissist sees the behaviour and then responded. Parts b through to e are omitted. This is why the response, viewed through your world lens, may seem disproportionate, outrageous and wrong. To the lesser narcissist, it just is and why are you complaining about it?
The lesser narcissist has an extremely low ability to control his behaviours because of this programming. Whereas the mid-range and greater (as I shall explain separately) can exert control, evaluate and form decisions before responding, the lesser cannot. This is why lesser narcissists have a greater propensity to more extreme responses, including physical violence, because they cannot control their actions and do not evaluate the repercussions of that action. They just react.
- Can they stop it?
It is often thought that our kind can stop our behaviours and therefore if we do not we must be enjoying what we are doing. With the lesser of our kind they can no more stop what they are doing than you can halt a runaway train with your bare hands. The lesser is a creature of response and reaction. It happens and if you are in the way when it happens, that is your fault. He does not know why he behaves this way so has no basis for stopping it. He is programmed to respond in a knee-jerk manner and therefore is unable to stop the behaviour. If you tell him to stop, you are tapping in to this inability to control his behaviour and this amounts to fuel or a criticism (if delivered emotion free) but in either instance all it will do is cause the behaviour to continue, although the lesser will not know this. In some respects, this lack of understanding, insight and control makes the lesser of our kind a pitiful creature but in other respects it makes him especially volatile and dangerous.
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So a lesser narcissist it the kind that will tell you to leave , and never come back, then when you say fine will say fuck it i ‘ll just kill you and proceed to strangle you just short of you passing out. Then kiss you and say he loves you and tries to get frisky and doesn’t understand why you want to still leave and never says sorry
HG,
I watched a documentary the other day. Part of it involved an interview with a patient diagnosed who had drug resistant psychosis.
At a guess, I would suspect this person to be a lower lesser.
Could it be that this was not actually psychosis and in fact the creature had taken over?
Even if no, would such outward behavior be akin to a creature which has taken over a narcissist?
And I don’t mean all patients with psychosis are Ns not at all. But is the behaviour we observe similar?
Difficult to say without knowing more about it AS2016, but you are correct that it could be a possibility.
Thank you so much HG.
I really do believe it is
Alexissmith2016. I am going to be nosey here and ask for more details on what was happening to make you think the construct was crumbling. I find that fascinating
Hey Kim e, I posted a while back about a recent ocassion (around xmas time), when I was at a meeting, pantman (a midrange total knobhead who has been trying to seduce me for a few years now and completely irritates me) was also there. He made a beeline to sit next to me and a couple of others were already sat on the same table as me. There was a point during the day when some others came over to chat. Everyone thinks he’s a dick! (sorry you can probably feel my distain for the poor guy seeping through as I type). During this time, I chatted with them then they were in conversation with some others on my table. Pantman attempted to talk to me. I ignored him so badly. He attempted to talk to the others who were already engaged in a conversation of their own. He tried me again. I ignored him. I was quite comfortable sitting there and not engaging. He was not. WIth all these people ignoring him but especially me (ewwwwww) he started whistling uncontrollably, he was looking this way and that, up and down to the side (I wish I could articulate it better) but he was clearly lacking in control. HG confirmed this was the creature making it’s presence felt.
And although it was different to symptoms of psychosis there was also some crossover. So when I watched this documentary it made me wonder whether when an N is diagnosed as having psychosis (most psychiatrists would not realise they are Ns so likely just a single diagnosis) whether it was possible it is not even psychosis at all but in fact the creature taking over.
I’m not at all suggesting that one is the other. I was just interested if the outwardly displayed symptoms are similar.
I hope that makes sense. not had time to recheck through what I’ve written.
Alsmt2016. Thank you so much. So interesting. Obviously the creature did not appear and everyone looking at him gave him the fuel he needed because the big bad lady (you) ignored him✌️🎉
I am sure you said it somewhere but why do you call him pantman?😂😂
everyone was ignoring him
I went to a business meeting at his house (yes more fool me I know because I knew what he was but I needed something from him) his wife was supposed to be there. She wasn’t!!! He went upstairs for an hour on an ‘important’ call. Whilst I waited in the lounge. I had work to do and was just grateful he was away from me.
An hour later he comes downstairs (it was the height of summer so very hot) in his pants!!!!!! he pretended (it looked so staged) that he had forgotten I was there. No he fucking hadn’t. I just looked straight ahead and said nothing at all. He did get dressed promptly. Thank god! so absolutely disgustingly gross!
Alxsm2016. I am sitting in an airport laughing my ass off. People are staring😂😂😂😂😂
I am amazed appalled and not surprised all at once. Thanks fir a great start to my trip😂😂😂😂
Hahaha glad you liked it! If nothing else he definitely generates many, many funny stories!
Note to non-Brits: “pants” mean underpants. The outer garment is called “trousers.”
In some regions, bullshit is referred to as “a pile of pants.” This phrase seems to be particularly useful when applied to government directives.
Alexis—I can’t answer for HG but I do believe paranoia is evident, especially in lower functioning members of our world—which is a psychotic symptom. I only intrude on the question because it’s much of my job—acute management of psychiatric presentations. I can’t diagnose narcissism but I’m aware most are in/out of jails & prisons which coincides with narcissism. We tend to “fuel” them quickly with interaction, shelter, clothes, food.. They rebound more quickly than a person with a stronger innate co-morbid condition I believe. I have a strong forensic interest due to my work and could pick HG’s brain forever. I prefer psychiatric emergency over anything I do. There are also many excellent people that struggle with psychosis. One such individual approached me in a store some months back as I was in scrubs and he was pleading for help.
Thanks Lorelei. Yes I don’t believe one is the other. Just recognised some similarities between the two. Take a look at my reply to Kim e
Oh good Goddess. I’ve picked a Lee up
It’s quite surprising really. I insulted him very badly on a open forum for trolling a feminist group which was discussing female sexual function.
He sent me a FR. I replied, very succinctly and with considerable taste, flair and aplomb, ‘Fuck off you cunt’
Only a few messages in and I get this
‘May be l have a chance to fuck you over there’
He means the UK i think.
He then asks if I Skype. Twice. I ignore that but respond,
What planet are you living on?
I dont want to bother the bandwidth too much but if anyone is interested, it’ll be on my blog, in full, tomorrow.
I will leave these zingers in place though…Brackets mean I thought it but didn’t say.
My sun is generally black.
(Wow! How prescient?)
Activists talk too much
(Yah dont say?)
I know me its enough
Enough for you but not the unfortunate female that you jab into her vagina with that appalling excuse for a manhood.
I see why your husband left you
I gently disburse him of this notion and then answer his next question on I must have caught him at it with his Mistress, no. Nice try.
He chunters on in a similiar vein. Honestly, I’ve never seen such devotion in a lesser despite how HORRENDOUSLY I’m insulting him. He is simply not taking no for an answer. I’m letting it go on of course because I’m going to write about him. I tell him this. Fairs fair.
Today he goes quiet. Until now.
I get a message notification. A picture has been sent to me.
I’m both simultaneously incredibly excited by this and utterly dismayed. It HAS to be a cock picture. Not had one of those in blummin ages. It’s like I’m back in Fet School. Nostalgic
Narcsite. It wasnt a cock picture. Hes only gone and bought a tarot deck and wants me to read the spread. Now, I’ve been in this gig for 30 years. I’ve accumulated many decks. I’ve yet to find a male, not ostensibly connected in the scene who just has one lying around. He spent the day buying the deck and has learned A Spread. And now he wants me to read it. This is a novel approach to dating. Even for me.
How entitled? How rude to assume I’d do something for nothing? So so fucking tempted to give him the darkest and blackest reading I can conjure from my deviant brain. And some of you will know from my erotica how twisted it can be.
I cannot however, I’d be abusing The Gift. Contagion. So I will not.
His parting words late last night
I really like your face, you have a blow job face
I can deep throat
Well, hes off at that one! How boringly predictable!
I now recieve that I’m beautiful, he will not sleep tonight etcs. He enjoyed this conversation. Hes been stirred up by my swearing. Then I get ‘Tarot-Gate’
Ok, so what am I taking from this apart from the fact hes a idiot?
Lesser. Middle level I’d say. Somatic probably.
Completely incapable of understanding boundaries and ludicrously so when I’m slaying him alive. He wont be able to keep this up for long unless I continue to engage and give him dollops.
Descion decisions…
Huh?
I dont see what is confusing about what I have written.
Renarde, this is not no contact, and you know it!
Whoops! But yes, you’re right.
I believe narcissistic individual’s may well be a dulled down version, or a negative version of, his or her true self..
I believe narcissistic individual’s may well be living with an unknown underlying health condition..
If only those individual’s who have narcissistic trates could somehow feel there true natural self the may then and only then understand how hard there lives truly are and to how hard the are actually been towards others..
Do you think what you call lesser, mid-range and greater, could possibly just be a matter of IQ’s?
People say that some narcissist feel things. They can not. And if they do it is just not the same narcissist we are talking about; meaning it is an empath that learned from narcs and use what serves them when it does.
There is only one of your kind, with different capacities. What are your thoughts? Thank you x
No.
So the lesser narc instinctively does evil, whereas the greater narc chooses to do evil. The lesser narc is just as bad then, nothing worse than nasty people who think they’re good and who believe their own lies.
I’ve had the misfortune of dating a Lesser Victim Narcissist. Until reading HG’s books, I was completely baffled by his behaviour. I dated him because I felt sorry for him and I felt strangely protective of him. He is extremely poorly educated, hails from a rough council estate in Middlesex, is not very good looking, completely inarticulate and –it turned out — full of seething rage towards anyone from a more privileged background. However, there was something little boy-ish, lost and endearing about him. But he treated me as if he was a) rather scared of me and b) intensely envious of me.
I’m taller than him (he’s 5ft 8, I’m 5ft 9). I’m a Cambridge graduate and come from an upper-middle class background. I’m physically attractive. I’m motivated and quite successful in my career and I have an active social life, lots of interests etc. Until dating the Lesser Narc, these various attributes had been regarded as positive. But the Narc seemed to hate that I was educated, he hated that I was quite physically fit, he even seemed to hate the fact I’m attractive and have an active social life. I just couldn’t understand it. But now it makes sense. A Lesser Victim Narcissist doesn’t want a woman who is actually physically taller and in better shape than him, or better educated. He doesn’t want a woman with options. The Lesser Narc persisted in triangulating me with his ex. He presented his ex as the ideal, perfect woman. She was short, overweight/chubby, not very attractive, uneducated, caring, and she looked up to him. Her ambition in life was to become a wife and mother. The Lesser Narc kept berating me for not being more like her.
OH,MY GOD BLESS YOU POLLY I COULD HAVE WRITTEN THIS YOUR POST MY LESSER NARCISSIST MALE FRIEND GOOD LUCK HOPE THIS KNOWLEDGE ABOUT NARCISSISM HELPED YOU ALSO SINCERELY SHARON
What can you do if your adult daughter is a lesser narcissist ?
Hello James, there are a variety of options available. I recommend you organise a consultation as the information is detailed.
HG if one of your children become a narc I thought that is due to something in childhood that you did not meet for them. Also if they become and empath it is also the case. Am I thinking correctly?
A combination of genetic predisposition and environment combine to result in those outcomes.
So genetically I was at risk in addition to environment? My father behaves awful. My mother not much better. I think they are both of Narc sort. But I believe its my mothers mother that was my greatest support and know I was my paternal grans favourite. Suppose this could be why I turned out a caring individual, never out to hurt a soul. If genetics play a part my children could still be at risk cant they? I moved away from all family so the influence of family has been intermittent. My children seem to be caring but have boundaries. Something I did not until now. So did I parent my child subconciously to become lovely people? Thank you for your prompt reply.
HG any advice please?
About what?
No worries
Thanks for all your support HG
Life is a bed of roses 😍
You are welcome.
SVR, I hope you don’t mind a third party response. I have read many scholarly studies in this area and while there is no definitive answer, I will offer this:
Research notes that actively involved grandparents have a significant influence on children and their well being (in terms of development between the ages of 0-6 the critical ages for development of narcissism as a defense mechanism) and beyond to display/teach empathy (between the ages of 4-12).
If a non narcissist marries a non narcissist and has a child and you are the primary care givers to the child from 0-6 and strictly limit exposure to narcissist abuse in your home, the child is unlikely to develop narcissism. If a non narcissist marries a narcissist, but the non narcissist is the *primary* caregiver (limited narcissistic abuse exposure), the child is not likely to become a narcissist, but will be affected to a degree by the narcissist (effects to self concept, self esteem, self confidence, ability to trust, etc.). If both parents are narcissists, narcissistic abuse is virtually guaranteed during the critical development periods and the child has a high degree of likelihood to develop narcissism unless a third party intervenes in an very active way, effectively changing the environment.
Researchers notes that narcissism involves the expression of several genes related to narcissism. The genes themselves may never be expressed if a healthy environment is offered. It is believed the primary caregiver plays the most critical role in the influence on the child’s environment, hence gene expression. The environment influences/ignites gene expression. Hope this helped and wishing you the best.
Also, HG does not see previous comments in the moderation pane so you have to copy a bit of your former question for him to know what you are referencing.
Thank you very much. Very informative and appreciated 😉
How do we know if we are dealing with a mid range or the lesser narc ? I doubt that I’m dealing with a greater narc
If you read the various articles concerning the three schools this will assist you. If you want to cut to the chase or you remain uncertain after reading, book a consultation with me and I will give you the answer.
Good day, sir. I appreciate your blog. I have just been discarded by a lesser, and I believe the hoovering has started because he quit another job and needs my fiancial support again. I am what you would call a super empath. I have gone through the first two post discard battles, and now I guess I’m in the third. I have enough of my own dysfunction to enjoy the challenge. Now that I have read your treatises on lesser narcs and the empath supernova, I understand my former love and I are not a match. I will always go supernova on his abuse. What you mention about programming, though, are what I call demons. Demons, not being creations of God, are not free, and therefore are simply programs. When humans, who are free, have programmed reactions and responses, they are being harnessed, or are harnessing demons. I understand that for some of your kind there is no hope. They were never actually human, but were always programs. Eventual destruction is their natural end. It will be as though they never existed. Some of your kind, though, possibly only encompassing the lesser narc, can be saved. Oh not by me, however “super” I may be, certainly this is beyond the scope of my healing abilities. But there is a God, and this God is the one who saves. And entirely at His discretion. I know this because He saved me. I used to be more narc than empath, although I have always had the ability to retrospectively regret and make amends for the harm I have caused, and to admit I was wrong: I have done some very narcissistic things. And for a most of my life. I have had the saving event, however, but I am still capable of narcissistic behavior. I always will be. I know my soon-to-be ex husband can also be saved, though he, too, will always be capable of narcissism and will exhibit it to an extent. Perhaps more of your kind can be saved, if you understand that programs are demons and programmatic responses are demonic and not human. We all, to a one, have a monster we fight all of our lives for supremacy of the free human creature we inhabit. When you stop fighting and let the monster rule, that is when you die the 2nd death (often before the first death). Those who fight it, as you are, as my ex does, have hope of life eternal. Your blog has blessed this daughter of the King. Have a good day.
Thanks HG, maybe he is a mid range but lower, cause there is a fact, he cannot hide his fury, his eyes are full of rage…etc. and he makes this in front of people, maybe is this a performance to show how angry he is.
Thanks for your blog, really, really fantastic for me…
H.G would you considere a lesser narcissist the one who sometimes looks like a child and other times plans all his acts? The Narc in my life sometimes makes me wonder if he is not very intelligent as he has knee-jerk reactions, and other times he makes things clearly planned…an example: block my phone number waiting my reaction to hoover me and finally I escape because I saw all the mind games he was making to me.
A combination of instinct and a degree of calculation is indicative of mid range behaviour. Lessers are usually instinct. An upper lesser may show some calculation but not a lot.
HG listen to this and tell me your thoughts.
Met the narc for the first time and went for a walk. The narc touched my bottom a couple of times as in not softly then acted funny in his body like shot of electricity. He then came forward expecting me to kiss him (very foward). Is this the lesser and why?
Yes it is the behaviour of Lesser as it is not a sophisticated approach to seduction.
Does the lesser narcissist like to see you in tears or is it annoying him?
It is fuel to the Lesser but he will exhibit annoyance in order to make you keep crying and provide more fuel.
Oh yes. My lessers hated tears. They would always threaten me to stop.
MY NARCISSIST FATHER BROUGHT TEARS TO MY EYES AS A CHILD BY MAKING ME HEAR MY MOTHER,S SCREAMS I WOULD JUMP ON HIS. BACK TO PROTECT MOMMY,,THEN HE,D. BEAT ME UP ,😥😥😥SHE DIDN’T PROTECT ME!BOTH ENJOYED MY TEARS! H.G.DO CODEPENDENT MOTHER,S ENJOY THEIR CHILDREN , SUFFERING?? TRULY SHARON
Sharon Marinucci
Im very sorry that happened to you as a child. You did nothing wrong and deserved better. I hope you know that. It was their sickness and nothing to do with you, although you paid the price because you were not able to leave. You can leave them behind now and I hope you have.
THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH I APPRECIATE YOUR WORDS NARC ANGEL LOVE SHARON😊🐈🐈🐈🐈!
THANK YOU VERY MUCH,NARC ANGEL I APPRECIATE YOUR KIND WORDS LOVE SHARON🐈🐈🐈🐈!
THANK YOU NARC ANGEL LOVE SHARON🐈🐈🐈🐈!
My lesser actually told me at one early point, that he thought it was a turn on to see a woman cry.
Whoaaa! That is one huge, blood red flag to run in the other direction!
The Lesser.
Thought-provoking picture. Lucky her.
Hi HG. After reading your materials i am of the opinion that my narc is a lesser, maybe upper lesser. However he behaves and control himself very well around strangers and “friends”. Its just around me and his family that he appears to be uncontrolled. Does this mean he might not be a lesser?
Thank you HG for explaining to us Empaths the truth in our lives. Without the knowledge you are sharing I would be more in the dark than I have been for 36 long years. At least now I have a better understanding of what I’ve been dealing with and can protect myself better and have some hope for quality of life. Again, thank you.
You are welcome Elizabeth, thank you for letting me know.
Like cavemen really! 😂
The guy in this pic is a Lesser? He’s a hottie!
A few people I know just call him vain or an egomaniac. I know it is much more than that. But here is my question… he is extremely charming. Smooth. Thinks he is just a player. But he is a narc, no doubt.
But… I started to learn that I could PLAY him and provoke him into rages. Rages that would not seem in the range of an Elite Narc. Rages that he wasn’t choosing as a way to control me if I was “crossing the line” and needed to punish. I learned to set him up, then to swat him. Not alot of these situations came up, but I was figuring out what to play in HIM by trying once to THINK like him just to believe the dynamic and what I was figuring out. (it was a waste of my energy, but I saw how it works in a brief moment, even the surge of power over toying with someone….)
So my question is, was this in fact a Narc Injury and do only lesser narcs display that level of explosiveness as a reaction? He does know what he is doing, he knows he ‘does numbers’ on people’s heads. He deliberately smeared one woman out of his town. So there is awareness. And alot of control. But I knew I could provoke him and did so a few times actually trying to drive him away. To get him to block me because I could not block him because he had wound me up and my head was a mess. So, I would be relentless with something until he would do it. Cut HIMSELF out and off from me.
This last round, he responded the same… blocked me everywhere but last minute, left 2 avenues open. Last time he blocked me everywhere (more or less) and I wondered if he always regretted cutting himself off. I sadly found a way to reach out to him once and and he immediately unblocked me from 2 places under some weird pretense of being ‘nice to me’ but could it be that I provide a way for him to feel in control and unblock me under the pretense of being nice to me in order to allow me a way to provide him with negative fuel?
But the question is, can someone provoke you into a rage? Do you ever lose that level of control? Do you ever irrationally block someone in reaction? Or are you ever provoked to leaving supply? know what I mean?
Yes you were wounding him. The explosion of ignited fury can happen with all schools of narcissist but is more prevalent in the Lesser because of the lower control threshold. You mentioned that not a lot of the situations came up which tends to suggest to me that he only really exploded when you got the conditions right (rather than over any and every criticism which you sent his way) and this would suggest he is possibly not a Lesser. For instance, as Greater it is very rare for me to explode in rage because I have control, I am also aware of the impact on my facade and I prefer to be calculating in what I do. However, there are rarer occasions where I cannot control my rage and when it does manifest then it is pure unadulterated vitriol which ends badly for the person on the receiving end. I am frenzied and utter out of control. It does not happen very often at all but when it does….
Yikes!! 😣😖
When you have gotten frenzied, do you always need an outside fuel source to soothe you down or can you self-soothe to calm down?
I need the external fuel source.
Interesting. One of the few times you say you “need” something vs. you want it.
Oh so sad 😢
Like a little baby that needs to be calmed down.
Did one of your victims ever lose control and tried to attack you?
A couple. Played right into my hands.
Oh nooo – the mid- range I’ve been trying to force away says with
A huge smile and wide eyes “ I wish you were a guy so I could punch you in the face”
Of course, I then say something cocky back -(Because it’s over the phone – I not dare provoke him in person)
I’m not very proud of my actions nor thoughts
But damn I just lost the only life I knew along with my home vehicle and friends and family. Drove across country to be far away from the covert narc I divorced 15 years ago and up until two years ago – was unaware of what a narcissist was or is .
lo and behold – left NJ only to arrive in CA alone and lonely which is how I’m now ensnared with yet another narc.
I was also raised by a narcissist mother.
Your comment is noted and no longer will I fuel his need to fight me.
Do not speak with him on the telephone. Put him through the Narc Detector and then build your no contact regime thereafter.
My only comments are usually “same” “ditto” “I know, me too”
To each of his derogatory statements. Those three pretty much are all it takes to set him off.
“You dumb bitch, fuck off”
“Ditto”
HG,
Would you be so kind as to describe one detailed example of when you lost control. For example, what behaviors did it involve? How did it impact the other person?
Thanks,
Indy
Indy,
I lost control on an evening out prior to Christmas. There was a long simmering tension between he and I. He purposefully pushed in front of me at a bar we were in. Ordinarily that would not be a problem, but because it was him and I knew how deliberate it was and that he was trying to show me up in front of my coterie and his friends, it ignited my fury. I erupted and attacked him owing to this loss of control. It was swift and he had no chance to defend himself because of the frenzied onslaught. He deserved it, is an unpleasant person and I know he will not take the matter further because of the other matters I know about him which would cause him far more trouble than it would to me. The impact on him was hospitalisation and he has not dared to appear in my spheres of influence since. His reaction (and those around him) provided a considerable injection of fuel which abated my fury so it abated as quickly as it appeared and I turned to my friends and asked them what they wanted to drink.
Hi HG,
Thank you for returning to this question I forgot I asked. I really do appreciate it. I am not sure if it was hard to write or if you needed the right moment or you just were so busy….and I do appreciate your candor. I can see it going down. That fast fire, like a laser beam of atomic energy. And then, back to regulated composure once it was released and directed. I have always had a healthy fear and a strong ability to feel early on this type of fast, explosive, fury under the surface that is being held back. It is an intense energy. And, those times I felt it in the past, I knew I had to take heed. The last time I felt that feeling was with that man I briefly went on dates with that I wrote about here previously(months ago)–you may recall—the one I debated if he was a greater or if he was more than sociopathic and more psychopathic…the vibe is similar, even if they are clinically different. That experience was life changing for me, as I knew I was with someone that could snuff me, if he wanted to. I also am able to perceive that intense energy/power that emanates from those that hold this type of inner restraint of this level of intense fury. Its like a dam that holds back a wall of fire….not lava, no…more like an inferno read to blow…but is held back by elegant cool stone walls. Like your pictures. I can only imagine what it is like to hold that inside of you. I would love to hear more of your inner experience of this if you ever wish to share in detail.
So, are you at liberty to say exactly what you did that sent him to the ER? Is this dude also a narcissist? Was it your fist to the face, a weapon or a bottle to the head or? I understand if you cannot share.
Back to that refrain…that man is like a sun burn….
No he is not. I used my fists.
Thank you for answering… yes, it wasn’t every criticism. I have to think about which ones really got him to react. But actually, I think he reacted to everything at first. And it was over time he gained greater control. The irony is he used to tell me to get self control as I played into his hand but he could lose it. He could be backed into a corner of defending himself. How did you regard that source of fuel afterwards? Do you leave forever? I never got why he always left a door open. I thought it was fcause deep down he loved me… rotfl. But now, I see I must have been really good game? But for those times you did lose control, what then with the person? How did it internally affect your evaluation of them for supply?
We never leave forever. There is always the potential to come back because of the potency of hoover fuel and the concept that you belong to us. If he lost control, in that instant he hated you for your treachery and malfunction. Later, because of compartmentalisation, this is often forgotten about because of the need to be in the here and now.
Hi Wide awake .
4.5% of the population diagnosed as Narcissist/psychopath/ sociopaths, interesting figure but talking from personal experience here, I’m absolutely sure that more go undiagnosed because the majority of the population inc the so called professionals don’t know what they’re dealing with .. ..
Thank you hg for another excellent article. Im fully comprehending what the lesser narcissists have done to me. I look foward to your book about addictions. I also hope book three narcissist unmasked comes out soon. Keep up the fantastic work hg!!
Thank you Lizz, I appreciate you letting me know.
Is this book out?
I love this photo. It’s the body heat that fooled me.
Me too!
Good description of the lesser. I appreciate you indicating that trying to stop the behavior could lead to more wrath and could be dangerous. Like stopping a train, indeed. With that said, I have one thing that concerns me. The statement that he can not control himself. It feels like it is letting him/her off the hook for their violence, thus no responsibility. Perhaps they have less refined control, though not a lack. He has the ability to learn to control violence ( he doesn’t do so with his boss when he doesn’t get a raise or with the cashier when they short-change him) though some are violent types do get violent in all arenas though less common. Just my reaction. Otherwise, nicely done.
We do not have control over many things in this world, but the one thing we do have control over is our own behavior.
Well said, Indy and valid, very valid.
Can a lesser move to a greater and vice versa? Is there a correlation between looks/income and the level of narcissist?
Hello MsSevyn, no they cannot. Looks and income may be higher for a greater but those factors in themselves do not denote a greater.
Looks? Depends on through whose eyes- may be greater in a lesser and less in a greater!
I keep seeing Narcassist/psychopath/ sociopath being labeled all over the place recently in social media and yet when you research the number of people diagnosed with these it is less than 4.5% of the population. Its interesting! I want to be fair. However I know when I am being abused. So, I feel strongly that I am not being unfair, but then I am wondering if his response to me is not because he views me as being a narc because I won’t give into his demands. He really used his mothers death as an excuse to get away with Abuse and then blamed me for being a narc and not yielding to him during his time of need even though I kept suggesting that we put our plans on hold and just be there with one another during a difficult time. He kept wanting to plow ahead though and if I resisted then I was not being sympathetic to his grief! It was awful being put into that position! I held my position but it cost me the relationship
Such a good question, MLA Clarece and equally good response from HG. Unless the therapist is at the receiving end of such fury on the basis that HG describes in his article as autopilot, reaction on reaction without the thought processing- the repetitive nature of it, cannot be conveyed to a therapist without it appearing as bad habits that can be broken and new modalities learned. CBT and all the modalities in the world won’t work unless we learn to see it from their perspective and perhaps start identifying it as early as necessary. However, then what?
No. 5 – Can They Stop It?
Is this where if the Lesser is in couple’s counseling or any kind of counseling for that matter, would an approach be to direct them towards anger management if the therapist did not even realize they were dealing with a narcissist?
Absolutely Clarece and there might be some degree of success in addressing the management of the anger for a short period, but not the overall condition because one, it has not been recognised and two, the Lesser is impervious because of the lack of insight and awareness. Thus where the Lesser exhibits ignited fury through heated fury, those unaware of our kind would see it as an anger issue when it is not, because it is fury which is something beyond anger and associated with our kind. Another example of how a lack of familiarity in counselling and the wider world causes a manifestation of our behaviour to be seen as something else.
Just putting a bandaid over a gaping wound. Treating a symptom and not the core problem. It can start to look pretty rampant and bleak comprehending all of that.
Thank you for your article. Does not knowing the reason for their behavior make them less evil in a sense and more susceptible to change via therapy or the like?
Hello FF, I suppose it is how you define evil. The end product of the things Lessers do can be considered evil even if it is instinctive. Of course, Greaters are more calculating and therefore people would regard our behaviour as evil (or more evil) given both the outcome and the intent behind it. Lesser are not susceptible to therapy because they do not know what they are and are incapable of knowing. They might be able to address some behaviours in isolation but it is unlikely.
You spend a lot of energy and time educating us and regardless of your true motives for doing so, I am truly appreciative of your effors.
Thank you FF, I appreciate you telling me so.
This is a really useful/ insightful article – I look forward to the follow ups for the mid-range and higher narcissists.
Thank you Emma, they are following in the next few days.
Very interesting picture! I would not liken a lesser to a robot at all. I see them more an animal with no empathy. Like a house cat – who hunts when full, starts fights for no reason, gets provoked easily. Hot headed and unappreciative.
Spot on with the lesser. U have enlightened me tremendously into the understanding of the lesser. So many unexplained questions are now answered. Thank you.
You are welcome Chantelle.
I think the picture is more fitting for a Greater. What do you think?