Impregnable
Another session with Dr E. As I sat down in his consulting room I wondered how much had been spent so far with regards to this supposed treatment. A few thousand pounds no doubt and I imagined that both Dr E and Dr O would be more than content to continue these consultations given their lucrative nature. The cynic in my nature pondered that the financial rewards were such that they would string out this course of treatment for as long as they could. That did not concern me. I was not paying and I usually enjoyed my sparring with the good doctors. It entertained me. However, as I ruminated on whether the lure of filthy lucre was what motivated Dr E and Dr O, I realised that they at least gave the impression of wanting to help me. I know from the many sessions it was as much about me gaining awareness and insight in order to make informed decisions about what I wanted, rather than a prescriptive approach from these head doctors but I realised that they actually did care. They wanted to help me. This of course was the main reason why I was content to keep turning up and being subjected to their questions; these two examiners of HG exhibited empathic traits and thus they proved attractive to me. My tolerance for their repeated probing of areas of my life that I preferred to keep shuttered and closed arose because they provided me with the attention that is so vital to my existence. I also knew that there was an admiration there for me as well. It was evident in the way the pair looked at me, especially Dr O. I knew, as academics, they admired the way I was so candid about the way I behaved. I could see how they admired the way I had been created. I knew they did not like it, how does one like something like me given the abuse I dole out as freely as a farmer broadcasting seed, but they had that deep-seated admiration for this efficient machine that had been stripped of all unnecessary emotions and super-charged with certain traits in order to function at maximum effectiveness. Accordingly, even the doctors were providing me with the thing I needed and our relationship might continue ad infinitum. They continued to be fascinated by me and they desired to help me. I, in turn, was content to engage in this relationship as it provided something that I required. The arrangement was a mutually satisfying one, even when the doctors strayed into territories that were best left alone.
“Hello HG how are you?” asked Dr E. I hesitated. He did not normally enquire as to my state of being. Others would trot out such a question rarely interested in the answer but merely performing a social nicety. Dr E did not ask such a question and for him to now do so put me on guard.
“I am excellent well, thank you for your kind enquiry,” I replied with a smile. I did not enquire after his well-being; I was not interested nor did I have to feign such interest.
“Good. Now, straight down to business, who are you?”
“H G Tudor.”
“Indeed you are. Anything else?”
I paused. I see Dr E we were going deep today were we? Very well, let’s flush out where you want to go.
“The question of who I am is something that depends on the context,” I began. Dr E commenced his note-taking.
“How does one define oneself is what I suspect you are really driving at.” I looked to Dr E for a sign of affirmation but there was none.
“Do I have an idea of who I am? How is that arrived at? Do I know who I am or do I look to others to define me? Am I an independent identity that has been shaped by my own decisions or am I a product of others and their experiences? Am I aware of who I am or have I yet to discover all that I am?”
“All interesting questions but let me return to my initial question,” interrupted Dr E, “who are you?”
“Who am I? I am many things to many people. Friend, lover, boss or confidant are labels which are applicable to me. Conqueror, seducer, victim and defiler are others which are equally applicable. Charismatic, urbane, intelligent, interesting, stimulating, successful and alluring are also traits that come together to create who I am.”
“I see. Would you say therefore that you are confident that you know who you are?”
“Yes.”
“Do you think that if I asked this question of your family and friends, your colleagues or even my secretary that they would give similar answers to those you have provided me with?”
I snorted.
“Liars lurk within the ranks of those you have described and they have nothing but ill-will towards me. Their perfidy is so great I can smell its stench as I sit here. By all means ask but you will be given nothing but a litany of lies. Insults and assaults on my good nature.”
“So all of them would insult you?”
“No, not all, there are those who know me for what I am.”
“Might it be said that they all know you for who you are?” pressed Dr E.
“No. There are those who have an agenda to topple me and it is they that think they know me but they have constructed an idea of what I am and it is a false one that is used to serve their nefarious purposes. Others recognise my greatness and they are content to embrace it.”
“But could it not be the case that these categories of people just happen to know different elements of you. Your admirers know the H G that is generous, interesting and charming. Those who you regard as detractors perhaps know a different part of you, the defiler and conqueror that you made reference to, this causing them to regard you in a less positive light?” asked Dr E.
“No. The defiler and conqueror are artifices created by those who seek to harm me. Let them do so and I will be that which they think I am. It is no more than they deserve. They create such a monstrosity through their perfidy and unwarranted attacks, so let them know the beast, let them feel its hot and fetid breath in their faces, the rake of its claws against their yielding skin and the full horror of its power on their being. They create it, let them endure it,” I spat, the mere consideration of those who would do me wrong causing my fury to ignite.
“Could you not possess all of those attributes? Could it not be the case you have them all and people see some over others?”
“No,” I said firmly. Dr E nodded and fell silent.
“What would you think if I said that I think you are hiding from yourself?”
I switched my gaze from Dr E and focussed on a picture on the wall. Not this, don’t start this again. Don’t let him gain a foothold H G. Repel the boarder, eject the intruder, cast him out.
“I do not hide.”
“But might you not realise that you are doing so?”
“No.”
“Could it be that you do not know who you are?”
“No.”
“Could it be that you do know but would prefer not to contemplate it?”
“No.”
“Is this line of discussion making you uncomfortable?”
“No.”
I shifted my gaze back to Dr E. Go on, keep trying to batter through my defences, you will not succeed. I know your game Dr E. I know what you are trying to suggest but I am not going there.
“Very well. Let us go back to how you regard yourself then, elaborate on that,” he invited.
The sense of relief washed over me but I gave no outward sign of its effect. I smiled, elated to have rejected this probing once again and excited by the prospect of talking about my favourite subject in greater detail; me.
49 thoughts on “Impregnable”
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One day H. G. you will not have to retrieve fuel from anyone else-you will be generating your own wonderful fuel and sharing this with whom you like or no one. The great doctors will show you the way and get you there. Through helping all of us, you are at the same time learning to be whole and one day generate your own fuel!
Do any of you (including HG) think that a child who has never experienced a given emotion in their childhood can later begin to feel it – for the first time – as an adult?
It is well known that if you are not exposed to human language before mid-childhood (I’m not sure of the exact age – let’s say 6 years old), you will never be able to develop the skill of language. You can learn words, you can have an incredible vocabulary, you might even be able to put two or three words together. But you will never be able to converse in real sentences, you’ll never be able to think in sentences or understand basic grammar or syntax. There’s a crucial cut-off point for language development. If that is missed, then the child is sadly confined within the linguistic prison that they were confined within.
On a similar theme, I remember the story of a boy who, quite unnecessarily, wore an eye-patch as a very young child for a period of 12 months or more. When the eye patch was removed, the boy couldn’t use that eye. It had missed a crucial developmental stage and the body understood it wasn’t needed, and diverted it’s energies elsewhere. The boy lost his sight because the eye wasn’t used at a very young age.
Could it be that if narcs are ‘created’ at a certain age, before they have developed a full emotional repertoire, that full healing of the narcissist is never possible?
I think the theory of stripping away the false self the narc has created in defence is a wonderful idea, but what if there is nothing left to regress back to, because a crucial stage in emotional development was missed?
I like your thought process Sunshine. It’s very interesting and it makes sense.
Thank you BH. I know it is a pessimistic outlook on narcs in our society, but I think it’s one we should debate and consider. For the desire within empaths is to fix and help others, isn’t it? But what if narcs actually have arrested emotional development, and their emotional function is permanent?
Many psychologist state that any learned behavior can be unlearned and replaced with a healthier learned behavior. Healing and understanding must take place though.
I believe if you can pry it out of the limbic system where it ran and hid long ago all emotions will be available unless you are genetically a sociopath or some such.
i truly loved this one.
Thank you for your writings…to me it’s the best thing on the internet.
i must say, i’m curious to know what it is you didn’t want him to get near, and why…
I feel a bit sorry for those doctors… they know what the underlying problems are, and they probably know how to fix them, but the patient is too stubborn to go along and ultimately heal…
They must have the patience of saints… sitting there, taking notes, trying to remain their poker faces when they are going ’round in circles. Could never be one of them, I would have lost my temper a long time ago… a boot camp of some sorts would be more fruitful! 🙂
I will never understand why these women have children. I had an LV mother who, when my parents divorced when I was 9, was the one to leave. Now I was very happy living with my father – I have no doubt that we had the much better life, but to have your mother choose to leave is very hard to accept. I understand the reasons – my father was a doctor, he could look after us, etc etc but deep down I think it’s more of a rejection to have your mother leave. Then she ended up with a man who was deeply, deeply unpleasant. Then when she had frittered away all the settlement she had from my father, she ended up homeless, living on a friend’s sofa. At this point she had me write to the local council saying that I was not happy living with my father and wanted to live with her. I was 16 at this point. Because she was my mother, I did so and she got a council house. Now she had no money, was in debt and I had to go and live with her. I had to get a job and support her. And THAT MAN came to live in the house as well – he slept in the cupboard over the stairs! (This was pre-Harry Potter – such a trendsetter!) I left my home, my father and a stepmother I adored to look after a leech.Naturally I did not see this at the time – to me it was the right thing to do.
When I became a mother, it became even harder to understand and I began to hate her. I have no doubt that I have put my own boys through some crap – the terrible depression I suffered after my husband left will have left its mark on them and I will carry that for the rest of my life. All I can do is do better. They are grown now but no matter what happens they know that I love them above everything else, they know they will always have a home (indeed the eldest has recently moved out for the fourth time – he has been gone for 20 days and has spent 5 of those back at home!). They know that they will always come first. Isn’t that what being a mother is all about?
How can a mother fail so badly at parenting that she turns her child into somebody like HG? (No offense HG)
The answer probably lies in her own childhood, Flickatina.
Your account moved me: you’re a strong woman and a very good Mum 🙂 … the weak repeat what has been done to them… the strong make sure the buck stops with them!
Thank you – what is sad is that my eldest brother decided he was never going to have children as he did not want to put a child through what we went through. They would have made amazing parents. Out of three of us, I am the only one with children. Such a waste.
That is sad, indeed! He must have put a lot of thought into his decision. Though men can be fathers later in life. For women, it is a wholly different matter…
So true, Matilda! SO TRUE!!!
Yes, unfortunately, BraveHeart. I have a few years left to decide if I want to be a mother… thinking about it, the question is not if I want to, the question is if I find the right guy. I wanted a family with my narc, more than anything I have ever wanted in my life… with hindsight, and with a heavy heart, I can say that it is better this way…
A child ties you to someone else for the rest of your life… my baby deserves a good father, who knows what love is… there is no point bringing new life into this world if the circumstances are wrong… so, I guess, I will just leave it to fate… 🙂
FLICKATINA
Im guessing to have little victims to control? ( not that they view it as that as they are usually not even aware of what they are). I chose not to have them for many reasons. Like your brother-did not want to expose them to my family, and since I did not possess many emotions that appeared to be required, figured I was doomed to fail. Also I had so much responsibility for others (Mother and siblings) that I coukd not see being chained (yes thats how I view it). My question has always been (and I have been taken to task for it), why do women have children with Narcs? Ok the first one mayyybe but certainly not more. I always get the pat response: I didnt know at the time. Well you dont need the label of Narc to know life was not grand and it was not a good environment to bring a child into. I have been called selfish and suspect all my life because I do not have them but my guess is that Empaths have them with Narcs because they are looking for the love they cannot get from HIM. That seems like the definition of selfish to me. But of course they never see it that way. Empaths are not above a little blame shifting themselves.
Why the hell are women called selfish because they do not want children?? I genuinely do not understand it!
I think some women may be bullied into having children – I do know one case of that 🙁
If you want something to love – get a cat! I have two children and three cats – WTF does that say about me!
Hello HG! Very nice job with your site.. congrats! It is very helpful.. in this topic i think that you hide a small frightened and hurted child inside you.. with the questions of the doctors I can see it hiding behind walls and chairs.. you have to protect it .. am I right?
So I am told.
That child is the source, the spring of all your rage and envy and the one that is stung over and over by criticism.
The mistake is for an empath to ever think that they could ever help you dismantle your walls. And for a therapist to ever think they could really help you. If you do not want those walls down, they will never, EVER come down. Period. You invite empaths to be surrogates for a while, but then you destroy them because this way, you continue to exercise your mastery over your survival mechanisms.
Your brain will flip all sorts of switches to make sure the walls never come down. It is actually biology that takes over on the most fundamental survival level, and despite all your power in other ways, you would have to intervene in those switches, tell them to not switch. See what is on the other side. Even if you wanted to intervene in those switches, you would have to be convinced that it’s worth it. You do not have that conviction. So it will never happen. You are never going to find out what is on the other side. You may still find nothing, but you may find everything you have run from. And you just don’t want to know.
On the one hand, you are dead inside. On the other, you are not at all. It’s a huge paradox. I am not sure psychology as it exists today could ever help you or anyone with this kind of a split. Your fortress is much too great.
So in the parking lot of the restaurant , while pulling out after having read your post and toasted Tom Brady, the wheels started turning. I started thinking why is it that you bind the bludgeoned empath to you for life? Why is this contract for life? Even Brady gets to leave after a few years when his contract is up. I thought further and realized there is also another person in your life who has an irrevocable lifetime contract.That would be mother. So as this relates to the good doctors and your treatment I would like to suggest this. That all of those empaths you pursue have been, some sort of open casting call for the new role of good mother that you wish to torment in this repetition complex thing and if the good doctors could figure out a way to fix the place where it went wrong in childhood and allow you to deal with all the hurt and betrayal ,defenses put to the side, there would be progress. So, you may already know this, they may already know this, but I don’t get that many deep insights pulling out of a restaurant parking lot so I wanted to share it. Do not forget, we empaths have already been battered by our own mothers and have had enough before we even met you.
Yeah, we had enough from our own mothers. Its why, I will always cherish a few comments written in a few other blog posts here. I am a warrior, a third eye soldier, even if I am vulnerable and hurt and you guys can see me coming a mile away. I may be an empath, but I am a warrior underneath because I also had to survive some pretty nasty stuff. I will always fight you guys off. Only I didn’t know WHY I always attracted you until this late in my life.
I will be grateful for only one part of this experience…. that I can now protect my daughter as she is highly empathic herself. I will never, ever cast her out into the world to fair on her own like my disturbed mother did. She is going to always have a save haven with me. I am not sure what made her so empathic but I guess, genes and absorbing my own energy… But if there is anything I can take from this experience, it is that the narc in some ways, made ME whole by returning a whole part of my life to me. I see I took the wrong messages from him about love ages ago (conditioned to look up to males, no one told me how effed up so many are, even as young teenagers), and now I get to reframe everything. Everything. So maybe, this is the only good thing that came out of this experience. That and I made sure to keep my mother away from my daughter. I used to hope having her would bring me some level of acceptance (at long last), but I know that she will use her role as grandmother to do what she can to poison my daughter’s thoughts about me, to triangulate and more. How could she not? She never liked me, so she will never speak lovingly of me to my daughter and I refuse to ever give her that power of ever meddling in my life in covert ways. No way….
I always wanted a Mama Bear. I never got one so instead, I will become one.
What you are staving off is the mechanism that keeps all of this structure in place. I believe for many narcs, there is a terrified, extremely lonely and desperate child inside who is crying really hard. But you will never let him out because you do not know how to love and care for him. In a way, you are protecting him from your own abandonment of him. It is the ultimate personality split and disorder. You are both the persecutor and protector of that child.
Narcissist doesn’t want help. He doesn’t need it. Going to therapy is another game, additional fuel, and a reminder of how great the narcissist is. At therapy the narcissist can brag about themselves and what they’ve caused onto others to a respected audience, but soon this will get old/boring as all secondary supply does. Narcissist spin everything from what they do to what they are told. The truth is based on what the narcissist wants it to be. It’s in black and white above, how a narcissist construed the therapist words. Others read the above retell of the story and interpret it much differently.
I’m not really sure what these doctor’s are hoping to accomplish. I appreciate their efforts, but I don’t think narcissism is a disorder you can therapy out of someone.
@ Brandi
Now imagine that you are 7 years old again. Almost every person that you have had interaction with, up to that age, you now have the mental capacity to understand ‘that you are not like them”. You are different, and not in a good way either. Like that broken toy you have, you understand that you are missing parts of yourself, that others possess. Things like a range of feelings, social skills, the ability to be independent of others. To have likes and dislikes. Then you come to the epiphany that you as a person, lack all these things. So you grasp onto whatever you think may be a ‘good personal trait’ such as your looks, and create your own imaginary world, where you can pretend to be, in some way, better than the normal people around you. Yet deep inside, you know the truth-that you are inferior to these people, because there are so many traits that you see in others, that you are lacking in yourself. It is like looking at a blank reflection in the mirror. You attempt to ‘morph’ into others with the traits you lack and so desperately want to have. A Narc will call this ‘obtaining fuel”. In reality, they are seeking out a Controller. A person who is able to directly or indirectly, control the Narc. A Narc develops methods to cope with reality. They build a world of fantasy, seek out Controllers to be able to cope, and develop compulsive habits, such as combining lies with fantasy, manipulation, theft, disassociation from their truth, all as a means of survival amongst normal humans. They know they are weak, unable to function independently. They know they are inferior. Combined with this, is very low self-esteem, and no self confidence. In fact, they build such a high wall of fantasy for themselves, that they almost can believe their own fantasy world of delusions of grandeur. Yet every day, they have to expend vast amounts of energy, rebuilding that wall around their real truth. Mother Nature has been very cruel to them-they know they are inferior, yet they are unable to change their continual coping mechanisms, as they have their pre-frontal cortex unable to function on a higher level. In a world they see surrounded by others that can function, their only means of coping, is to delude themselves,
A Narc can never truthfully answer “Who am I” because they truth is too shameful for them to reveal.
Narcissism-The inferiority complex with delusions of grandeur
AL
That was an awesome read (and somehow familiar). Thank you for putting it down the way you did. Its nagging at something in my brain but I cant quite put my finger on it. Having said that- I have been asked who I am or to describe myself many times and I am unable to do so. Just blank. I will make a joke to get out of it. I assumed this was the same for most as it is directed at self. Is this not the case? Can most people really answer this? Im being quite serious despite how ridiculous it may sound.
@ Narcangel. If you read HGs post, you can see how paranoid this question makes him. As you have said, your response is one based on being unsure. You may lack self confidence to place value on yourself, whereas a Narc is fully aware that they have NO self-identity, and have created a world of fantasy that they can pretend they are “something”. What I suggest, is ask those you trust, about what they see and value in you. Start with your basics-your likes and dislikes.
If you have had a Narc attempting to make you into their Controller (HG calls this fuel lol) and the Narc told you that you have certain traits, such as intelligence, compassion etc,, while it was attempting to morph into you, then take a look at those aspects of yourself. Narcs are compulsive liars, but in their initial first contact with you, they will mirror your good qualities, as they lack and desire them.
AL
No one who has ever met me would say I lack confidence, but I am unable to answer I think because I have always just felt responsible for others weaker than myself. Doing what needs to be done, defending them, showing them how to be stronger, etc. yes I know that sounds egotistical but its true and a compulsion I have to fight not to act on. Recently a group of people asked what were my favorite things as a child and I coukd not answer. It became uncomfortable in the room so I made a joke to deflect. What was I to say? Being successful at preventing someone being beat? a day of quiet? a night of fitful sleep when there was no arguing and raised voices? no witness to violence on a holiday? I learned like a Narc to mimic others and take on their interests to appear normal. I did genuinely come to like some of those things I mimicked. I wish peoplecwould tell me what they really see but most will only list the good things as its in their nature not to wound others. I have had people tell me that I am intimidating and brutal harsh and direct but even then they turn it around to be a good thing so you always wonder. And as well-they can only comment on what you choose to let people see which in my case has been the mimicry of others (family values, the meaning of holidays) and all that stuff expected in normal conversation. They cant offer observation on what they don’t know. I am high on the Narc scale yet know I am not one, but I do understand them not being able to answer that question. Some of us have only ever been what the world required of us to be to fit in, or whatever we needed to be to survive. But we dont know who or what we are so WE have had to decide, and people dont seem to like that.
Once I asked my narc a direct question, asking why he had done some such horrible thing. But I was gentle and forgiving; a loving invitation to drop his armor.
He sighed, hung his head and said nothing. We sat in silence for several minutes. I said it felt like total desertion to expose my vulnerabilities and to be met with silence.
He said, “I just haven’t crafted an answer for that yet.”
I said, “Just say whatever comes to mind. You don’t need to edit for me.”
He was quiet for several more minutes. I grew sad and impatient and said it was so disappointing to part on these terms. At that point, he finally appeased me… the answer was logical and heartfelt, framed for me to believe that despite his previous action against me, deep down he’d had my best interests at heart.
In that moment, I believed him, overwhelmed with compassion for him and me, feeling like we were partnering toward profound and mutual self-understanding.
Then, two days later, he did the very same thing he’d done the first time, though in a much more hurtful and underhanded way. When I confronted him, he answered with the most pathetic and implausible lies.
Disappointing, to say the least.
I dunno, HG. My narc is probably a “mid range”. He has chinks in his armor. He occasionally collapses from its weight.
But even for a Greater such as yourself, isn’t it exhausting to lug it around wherever you go?
No Karin I do not find it exhausting.
HG
Could you correct my English when necessary after moderation ? Or is too much to ask ?
I still make grammatical mistakes.
I don’t have the time Maria and your English is very good, the message is still apparent.
Grazie.
No, no, no Maria, because then he’d have to be doing mine and everyone else’s, who happens to be a bit critical of their own errors. I’ve wanted to ask that same question, but decided against it. Just remember, it’s all good and we all make mistakes 🙂 Welcome to the English language 🙂
HG I know the feeling.
We all possess different traits (i like to call it multiple personalities ) part of one main personality: the core of our own self. Our souls.
We are thus, in order to comply the different roles we have to display in life.
But maybe the more intimate and “hidden” one, the one that wants to hide even from our own self, is the most difficult one to trust into someone else’s knowledge.
Odd enough I trusted my Narcs with that knowledge.
Is it because he was so good to extract it?
Or because i was fooled to think that i had unlocked his?
Hence the ‘twin soul’ saga started.
That was bliss because I could be that persona that I couldn’t ever be able to be.
Even if it is destructive. Sometimes in order to know distruction it is necessary to go back to the cause.
That can be extensively argued, I still even do it with myself.
Was it so damned necessary to dug out that dormant delicious trait and give it a chance to perform?
I love the English languange since i dug into it.
I am Italian.
Hello
HG, do you think that Dr.O/E are good doctors, if so whay?
Imagine that you are Dr.O/E, how will you approach (“help”) yourself ?
They are of intelligence, they are largely well-intentioned.
Define what you mean by help.
This was a disturbing entry to read, but The Patriots won the Super Bowl so I am happy.
Go pats
So by writing this you know what you are but you don’t admit it to the people who you are paying to help you? And they might be there to take your money – but you’re the one wasting their time.
#narccontradiction
I’m sorry, i didn’t mean to attack, this was just a first response to your article. I really just meant to say good morning!
You’re so paranoid! You sound like ex N who loved to put down everybody else first, before they got a so-called ‘chance’ to say anything negative about him. Unbelievable… paranoia = self destroya
Hey Ollie, you should consider a career in rap!
Lol. Thank you for suggesting that, but that’s not really my forté…
Fair enough Ollie, there was a glimmer of potential!
Wow. I mean, it is kind of sad, but we are all just a bunch of shards of contiguous memories and patterns..until we go senile. Then who are we?
I learnt that you will only share what you want to in sessions with professionals you don’t need to be a narcissist to do this , surely they must know this ?
@ Tina, I am sure HGs therapist knows this-he was pressing his buttons to see how paranoid HG would become.
Thank you for your comments , I was just surprised at HG being in therapy as knowing myself we humans only share what we want people to know maybe in sessions they may have a better insight into the personality and disorder but again what’s truth and what’s lies 😀
I am sure HG has been forced by the courts to have ‘therapy’. Although Narcissism is classified as a personality disorder, it should be classified as a neurological disorder first and foremost, as a Narcs pre-frontal cortex, does not develop nor function normally.
When interacting with them, in both the therapy and general life, do so on the level of a 5 year old child, with a very vivid imagination (delusions of grandeur), and that nothing they say or write, can be believed-even this blog site.
Narcs have severe inferiority complexes, lack self-identity (the reason they cannot answer “Who am I?”, have no self-esteem, no self confidence, and continually seek out Controllers, as they attempt to ‘morph’ the Controllers traits into themselves. The Narc finds it impossible do take on the Controllers traits, and use their only known skills (such as lies, manipulation, theft, obsession, stalking etc), as their mechanisms to cope in the world of the normal human.