For the Sake of an Argument
Would you like to know what is going through my mind when we argue? Thought you would.
I do enjoy an argument. I love to start a squabble, a contretemps and escalate it to a quarrel through to an altercation, a fight ! By now I am sure you have realised that the reason I do this is twofold. First, I am provoking an emotional reaction from you which gives me fuel. Secondly, it enables me to put you in your place and control you by being abusive towards you. I keep it within the realms of stinging and barbed verbal abuse but there are those of my brethren who do like to let their fists do the talking. That is not my style but we cannot shy away from the truth of what is being done in the name of “a discussion”.
I know from experience and also from reading numerous comments and observations that you regard arguing with me akin to banging your head against a brick wall. You cannot understand the stance we adopt in an argument. Surely we must recognise that what we are saying makes no sense? Do we not realise that our position lacks logic? I will endeavour to enlighten you. I recognise two types of argument. The first is created by me. The second is created by you. What they both have in common is you are at fault.
In the first type I generate an argument out of nothing. You find this disorienting and confusing. In fact,I will often do this after we have just done something delightful together (throwing you from a height is all the more delicious – see Get Ready To Drop). I will invent some offence (why did you just look at that man across from us, when you did not) or I will seize on something utterly trivial (thanks for taking that last drop (and it was a drop) of the sauvignon blanc). I will level the accusation at you. You will at first be stunned because everything was going swimmingly. You will then be perplexed as my accusation is either untrue or so minor to be negligible. Why is he getting so het up over nothing? Indignance will then rise inside you as your inner self questions whether you are just going to sit and take this unjust accusation. I am shouting at you now and you either run away or fight back. It might go something like this.
“Oh thanks for taking the last of the wine, I wanted that. I have hardly had any.”
“Sorry? There was only a drop left.”
“But you didn’t ask me if I wanted it did you?”
“I didn’t think to, there was just a dribble.”
“You didn’t think? That’s the trouble with you. You never think.”
“Oh come on, besides you’ve had plenty of wine anyway.”
“Are you saying I have a drink problem?”
“Woah, where did that come from?”
“You. You are always doing this. You do something selfish and then turn it into an attack about me. Just because you cannot stand for someone to point out when you have done something wrong.”
“Good God, what are you talking about?”
“That’s it, try to dismiss me when I am making a valid point.”
“I only poured a drop of wine into my glass. It is not big deal. Here, if it troubles you so much, have what is left in my glass.”
“No, it’s too late. The damage is done. You are trying to make light of when I am pointing something out to you.”
“This is ridiculous.”
“Oh I am ridiculous am I, well that’s rich coming from someone who drinks a bottle, at least one, a day.”
“Where do you get that from? No I don’t.”
“Yes you do. I am concerned about your drinking, have you ever considered getting some help?”
And on it goes.
When I start an argument like this I am not interested in proving what I am saying is correct. I am already right in my mind. You should note that ‘right’ and ‘correct’ are not necessarily the same thing. The whole purpose of this type of argument is for me to upset you and turn an otherwise pleasant experience into a horrible one. This is about exerting control so that you become wary about upsetting me. Next time you will always ensure you offer to pour me a glass of wine before tending to yourself for fear of causing an argument. Of course,, the next time I will be arguing about how you took the last profiterole instead even though I had eaten five more than you already.
The second type of argument is where you level a complaint or accusation at me. Invariably what you say is correct and you have valid grounds for raising it. You will also do so in a calm and level-headed fashion because that is your style. When you do this I do not hear what you are actually saying to me. The validity of your argument is meaningless to me. The piece of paper that documents your point may as well be written in Sanskrit for all the notice I will take of it. All I hear is you criticising me and I hate that. I absolutely hate it. How dare someone like you, who is inferior to someone like me, have the audacity to suggest I have done something wrong. I do not hear your words, I do not see the video recording you are playing back, all I hear is an unjust and scathing attack on me. Your words are drowned out by the raging fire that surges through me. The noise of the flames renders me deaf to your cool logic. I will deflect, deny and launch my own attacks (usually predicated on inventions) in order to beat you back. I am not interested in the correctness of what is being argued about. I am only interested in stopping the burning sensation I feel from your criticism and to do that I have to extinguish you. This is when I lose control and lash out. I will hurl savage insults at you and I will smash items of property (in my mind I am smashing you, just another object in front of me when I do this) and some of my kind will engage in physical violence. You will try to make me see that I am wrong (any healthy person would do this) and you are utterly flabbergasted as to why I cannot see what you are saying to me. Now you know. I cannot see because of the fiery rage that has erupted.
How do you deal with me in these two types of argument? Well, I am saving that information for another time. In the meanwhile, see if you can piece together that ornament I just have hurled against the wall.
47 thoughts on “For the Sake of an Argument”
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Claudia, I need to clarify what I meant by weaning away from this site. I’m detaching from it becoming a source of dependence, but I will continue to check in from time to time to use it as my source of continued education. In other words, I sincerely feel as if this site is “my” holy grail on earth. I think it should be for everyone who truly wants to heal.
You’re absolutely right, Claudia. It is extremely hard, but what’s harder is not being true to ourselves.
BraveHeart 💘
“Entertainment” would make an excellent therapist 💚
claudia-
if you’ve got the money, HG will talk to you via Skype for only $100/hr.
fuck your therapist and know that tailored anything comes with a cost.
I think his price is modest. I encourage you to take advantage before the price increases.
💙
This is for the therapist… never mind; it’s not appropriate. (I had an icon pic of the middle finger, but not appropriate).
I am not sure what I would talk about with HG…where to start? Not sure how it works….and, what if I get tongue-tied, or start crying? There is much pain involved. I do not know the guidelines of what I am supposed to talk to him about…
That’s a fair statement, Claudia. I’ve been no contact with the ex-N for 11 months now (no hoovers) and have thought many times about contacting HG for a one on one consult. I did the email, but like you, I’m not sure where I’d even begin in a verbal consult. For now, I just keep reading, but I will say, after reading HG’s blog for the last 6 mos. or so, I do find myself weaning away from it the more I heal. He has provided so much information; and quite honestly, I think whatever I ask him now, I pretty much already know the answer he’ll give. If anything, just keep reading because I know, for me, it’s helped me tremendously. Good luck, Claudia! 🙂
Braveheart, I am doing the same thing, and reading, and learning. And HG is also helping me better myself by making me control my impulsiveness at speaking out. I am so glad he is helping me with this; I have no one else to help me. He is helping me with my Emotional Regulation! I, too, will wean off this site as I get stronger, and better. It is difficult, of course, since I get attached to people and then when I leave, or they leave, I feel so sad and then I miss them so much. This is so hard. 🎁🎁🎁 I wish we could all just be in contact forever, like a family 😓.
All I was going to say is that a lot of people on this blog appear to adore, admire, and be grateful for Mr. Tudor’s help and it is difficult not to get an attachment to someone who is helping us from all this heartache that we have been through.
Nobody else has understood, given us their time, or helped us, in the way that HG has done so. There are many, here, in great pain who have been looking for so long for someone who “gets it”, as HG does.
I know that from my own experience that I can sometimes get attached to this blog, and really look up to HG, and miss him very much when he is not around. I do not mean to impede on his time, or irritate him, but he’s the only one who has understood me, what I have gone through with the Narcissist, and has no judged me in the way that, not only the Narcissist has done, but all of his very many Lieutenants and Flying Monkeys- (who were all suppose to be my dear Friends before this last Narcissist smeared me, lied about me, and used trickery to cause these ignorant souls to join in with shaming, humiliating, and crushing me). It’s all been very shocking, and unimaginable. But, Mr. Tudor has helped me to understand everything that has gone on, and why the things happened that did. He is helping me to get past these abusers, and ease the major cognitive dissonance in which I had no one to help me work through before I found this blog. Because of the Narcissist’s lies, manipulations, and ‘under the radar’ deceptions, everyone who I thought was my friend, turned their backs on me, after joining him in smearing me.
I, for one, do not mean to be irritating to HG- (per the commenter above)- or take up so much of his time. He does a lot to help us, I know. I greatly appreciate it. I really, really do.
Hugs HG ☃️☃️☃️
Claudia, you’re on a journey. Don’t stop learning and moving on.
You’re free of your narc now, so you have a bright future ahead. Think of your life now as a reverse funnel – go from narrow and concentrated, to broad and open. Open your life out to new experiences, make new friends and invest in the friendships you have. Focus on your career, your family. Bring balance to all aspects of your life. You have such an exciting opportunity now to take your life in new directions. Reflect regularly and consider in what ways you are making progress. Reward yourself and be kind to yourself.
Thank you, Sunshine, for your inspiring and encouraging words. I will take, to heart, your words because they contain much wisdom. 🎈🎈🎈
I like how you described it as a “Reverse Funnel”, Sunshine. So creative!
See, H.G., I am holding in my words at wanting to respond to the above commenter. I would/could say a lot, here, but I will hold my tongue. So, I am learning self-control 😀 just so you know. I am certainly behaving.
Perhaps HG takes a day off.
Perhaps he has a social life..
Perhaps he goes to the Theatre or the Opera.
Perhaps he’s actually spending time with his primary source.
Everybody has to take a shower…make a meal…
Live.
I’ve worked in admin.. it takes a great deal of time to go through things.. to ponder to consider.. to edit.. to write..
I really cannot imagine how he is expected to take the time to sit down and write all of these new books aswell that we keep saying we are so excitedly awaiting.
I do not know HG.
But logically speaking comment management takes time and consideration surely.
Whilst HG does not need defending, I make the point myself to say that when I came on here I had hoped to find and read constructive comments that help us all.. and not find a lot of stamping of feet …nashing of teeth@tantrums.org.
Whilst that in itself may not be a constructive and helpful remark that I make, I’m letting myself off. I give myself permission to say it because frankly – it needs to be said.
Strangely enough, this is exactly the type of thing that “we” go through ourselves in relationships…being got at regarding quick replies.
Demands for attention.
I felt like I couldn’t even go to the bathroom without the 3rd degree.
I personally cannot stand people demanding my attention immediately even when I am very loving and comforting and helpful as a person.
Let’s be realistic, practical and patient for Heaven’s sake.
Let’s not turn into the very thing we are running from.
These articles are here to teach.
This is not a dating site is it.
Debbie,
I am glad you said it, you can be the mean girl😊 I often wonder if the guys were really narcs or if they just ran away from the neediness attention seeking nags.
Well Entertainment considering the fact that i am still married (nothing to brag about by no means) and he has never discarded me like i am sure yours did (consider yourself lucky) must mean i am not a needy nag. But very much the opposite!
Thanks HG for removing all of the posts i requested you too in my evening of too much wine and very bad day! Your thoughtfulness is so much appreciated! ❤
No need to know, I too appreciate HG for not releasing some post that were written after a couple glasses of wine.
I was not discarded, the lesser started verbally abusing me. I left him, and he begged me to continue a friendship with him at first I agreed but I continued no contact. Now the thought of him makes me sick to my stomach. I have others in my life that I can’t go full not contact so I limit my interactions to once per year if possible. Sorry, if you are stuck in a marriage with one.
Ha Ha, I really am using a lot of self-control here…oh, yes I am! Ha Ha..
My tongue is bleeding from biting down on it so hard….ha ha ha….it might need stitches…..ha ha ha….
Claudia,
Please don’t hurt yourself we enjoy your comments. Wait you don’t need your tongue to write. Carry on, but be careful.
Regarding, therapist I would suck I can’t help others when I desperately need help myself.
Entertainment, thank you ❤️. Yes, I am being very careful ⛓🚓. I quick biting my tongue when I realized that you were correct; I don’t need my tongue to write 😝. I wish I had a therapist who could understand all of this.
Hi E..
Ha ha…who knows.
Im learning so much from HG’s work.
Very enlightening.
Upsetting and disturbing yes but necessary.
Little by little I’m seizing the hour, the half day, the afternoon and the night!
Seizing the power and on my way home: back to myself. . .
It’s time.
🌷
Very well said, Debbie! 🙂
Thank you BraveHeart.
ha…ha…ha…ha…. 🌹🌸🌺🌷
Debbie I think your words could be taken as harsh, but true, and a good reality check. Y’all don’t read closely enough.
Of course being understanding and realistic regarding the technical aspects of blogging and moderating is important. Additionally, we have to remain mindful that we come to His world, many of us still raw and actively in pain, and seek answers.
We basically have a gathering of empathic and/or codependent types here, who have been abused and well trained through manipulation. Who now through the magic of internet have (somewhat) direct access to a brilliant, shiny surrogate for their “N”. An even better version, He encompasses the full spectrum of narcissism through his works. He is anything we need at the moment. A focus of our pain, of our lust, of our need to nurture and heal. For some, of our need to have a tangible God again. A place to seek shelter and comfort and to make sense of things while our lives are in turmoil.
I just think for some or maybe many, it’s easy to fall into this more different rabbit hole. To carry over the pain and behaviors that we either are still actively engaging in or are freshly out of, and transfer them onto this surrogate “N+” as we process through different thoughts and emotions.
I remember when I first came around I was not myself at all. It has taken a long time to start to let go of the inner chaos I was left in and come back to any sense of normalcy. Then to take what I’ve learned here as well as elsewhere about things like trauma bonding, childhood abandonment, parentification, object permanence, and see where I played a part and what I can work on within myself.
Very well said CherryLin!!!!!!!
CherryLin
Very good point re surrogate N..
Yes my friend..I understand pain. And raw..
indeed I truely sadly do.
Good post of yours and valid points. Thanks for them.👍
I really think he does not ever sleep. Perhaps vampires are real after all.
Heather, HG does not like me. I can tell. He likes others far more than he does me. In fact, he can barely stand me, and wishes I wasn’t even on this blog. He likes you very, very much in comparison to me. He considers me a nuisance and a jerk. I know this in how he is very curt in his answers to me, but much kinder in his answers to others in whom he likes better. I guess I am just used to it from him.
That is incorrect and you are teetering towards certain behaviours which you promised not to engage in.
I am sorry, Mr. Tudor 😥. I will focus! Forgive me, please. Hugs, HG! Hugsssssss to everyone! ❤️❤️❤️💜💜💜 Mr. Tudor, rainbows! 🌈🌈🌈 For You! I will be good. I mean that! Here’s some good stuff ⛽️ ⛽️ ⛽️. (It’s picture of fuel for you). Hugssssssssssss xxxooo 💥💥💥 Hugs everyone ⚡️⚡️⚡️
Hey Claudia,
Do you remember how you talked about achieving balance in your life, and reducing your dependence on this blog? Have you given any further thought to how you’d like to do that?
Sunshine, yes! I have a lot of hobbies. I bam going to start doing my hobbies, today. But, I still want to come on here, sometimes, to learn and because I like everyone here. But, I am going to do my hobbies, today, in fact. 🤗🤗🤗 Am excited about that! I also have some work to do 👻👻👻. Yes, I’m going to be very busy, today. 💜💜💜 Hugs 💚💚💚 Ya, thinking of you all!
Sunshine ☀️☀️☀️, yes! I am doing it, too.
Easy tiger! Your questions are not ignored but rather since they are questions they tend to be longer in moderation.
1. I have other things to do outside of the blog; and
2. I receive many comments which means they will remain in moderation.
Nobody is ignored.
I can attest to that. I have received responses from HG and I be like where did that come from. Awesome, I asked that almost a month ago. 😊He does answer and most of my questions are not pressing. Also, I realize some of the questions I already know and just need validation or ; it is answered in another post or book.
Obviously as you can all see from all my crazy posts at 3am i had way too much wine and a horrible evening. Came to the wrong place to vent and took it out on the wrong person! Sorry HG. What i said on all my posts were mean, cruel, immature and i was WAY out of line. 😒😒😒😒😒😒😒😒😒
Sorry HG! Went off the deep end lastnight! Bad evening..took it out on you! Just trying to find my way through all of this!
I did send you one awhile back that, well has escaped your notice. I said the questions were not rhetorical. But I am your favorite soooo….yeah. I expect nothing because I know you. 💙
Easy tiger … haha 🙂
Do you guys ever wish you had a second chance to meet them for the first time again?
So you could just run like FUCK, on the opposite direction the very moment they appeared in your life to save your self from all the poisonous crap that came with them.🛤
Yes, I wish this over and over, again.
YES!!!!
I’ll end the suspense. How do we deal? Walk away and go no contact. Easy peasy.
ha ha…nice ending about the ornament 😎
Not cool is it.
No, it’s not very cool at all. It just sounded funny how he said that in the end 🤗. It took me by surprise, and sounded obnoxious..ha ha ha…that is 😂 funny. Some ornaments are Collectors’ Series, and not many of them are made at the time.. ha ha ha..
Reminds me of something my younger son would have done when he was a teenager; he was extremely wild, and spirited. Soooo cute, though! (oops, starting to feel a wave of sentimentality coming upon me). He has such the babyface, still. I could screeeeam because so cute 🤗🤗