The Narcissistic Truths – No. 2 (Expanded)
There is a vast emptiness inside of me.
Whatever was meant to be there is not there and instead this chasm remains, an expansive void that is dark, deep and perpetual. I remain ahead of this void because it wants to consume me and in so doing consign me to oblivion. This relentless black hole wants to devour me, breaking down all that I have achieved and crushing them into nothingness, a final insult against me as I disappear without trace. A terrible matter to contemplate that as this extinction is aimed at me is the prospect of never having mattered, never having existed and never having made a mark on the world. To be erased in an instant, obliterated and deleted.
I am fearless in all that I do, save that is this void, this nothing which is the architect of one total fear. It is against this constant fate that I drive forward. You see, hurled into this void is The Creature and he is scrabbling to escape it so that with dreadful suicidal intent he can wrap his sinewy arms about me, his yellowed and sharpened teeth plunging into my neck, his venom paralysing me as he gurgles and giggles, hauling me backwards off the precipice and into the void, the pair of us plummeting into oblivion.
That must not happen.
In order to keep him deep, deep down in the void it is necessary to imprison him and keep his vile and seditious whispers silenced. This means filling the void. Imagine he lurks at its very deepest point. He wishes to keep the void as it is. Vast and empty, since by doing so he will be able to then clamber out and grab me, dragging me down back into the void. He needs the void to be just that. He needs emptiness so he can reach out of it unhindered. He needs the void to be just that. He needs emptiness so he can destroy me through its unrelenting absence of anything.
I cannot have emptiness.
This void must be filled and it is filled with fuel. Each piece of fuel places a layer within the void and behind each layer The Creature becomes imprisoned. Oh he will wail and protest but as those layers become thicker and more numerous his wretched cat calls become muffled and then silenced. He cannot break through these layers, he cannot reach out and burst through the constructed layers to sabotage my existence. Each layer differs in depth, strength and duration in accordance with the type of fuel that I am able to gather and place within the void, fashioning my construct.
The smile from a stranger is a thin and ephemeral sliver. The admiration from a newly acquired primary source is a dense and durable slab that protects me and makes the construct strong. Piece by piece, layer by layer, each segment of fuel, positive and negative, reinforces the construct, fills the void and keep The Creature at bay.
One cannot rest for these pieces dissipate and melt away through time. The Creature picks at them, claws at them, raking through them. Your treacherous criticism punches massive great holes in them allowing the mocking howls of The Creature to echo to me. See now why we hate criticism so vehemently?
Fuel fills the void. Fuel creates the construct.
The fastest way to gather fuel is to show you what you want to see for then you will pour forth with your love, your delight, your admiration and your appreciation. Marvellous, edifying and filling is your fuel. If I show you the very thing that you want to see, namely yourself, you will give me this fuel more readily, with such potency, often and in huge amounts. I have not time to build something of substance for you to fall in love with, to admire and desire. I must create it with due expedience and what better way than to use that which already exists, namely you. Thus, I show you yourself through my mirror and you fall for that image believing it to be me, believing it to be my essence and substance.
You do not realise that you are seeking yourself and indeed you do not see yourself when I mirror you back at yourself. You are conned by my fakery into thinking that it is my substance that you see and it dazzles and enchants you. I care not. So long as you are providing me with that fuel, I will hold up that mirror to you and let you fall in love with yourself. It is an artifice, a fabrication and fakery but it is necessary.
I give you what you want. It is not real but it seems so real to you and thus your responses are in fact real. The delicious fuel flows and I want you to pour it into me, filling me up, creating a barrier of salvation between me and the Creature as you are chief architect in the plans to frustrate and defeat his attempt to dethrone me.
This is why when you are installed as primary source and your wonderful fuel flows you truly are everything that matters to us.
You are our salvation and if holding a mirror up to achieve this salvation is what must be done, then it will be done.
203 thoughts on “The Narcissistic Truths – No. 2 (Expanded)”
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What if you’re wrong about the Creature? What if it is not a fearsome monster but a small frightened child longing to become part of you.. so you can be whole.. functioning…
.. he is not scrabbling to get out to pull you into nothingness.. but rather join you in the light.. to be recognized and validated… soothed.. calmed.. loved..
Why not turn and face the Creature?
You will not cease to exist…
Why face something when I have it locked away? I do not want to look on it.
Why not prove the Matrinarc wrong – it is not weakness to love.. to want love.. to receive love..
..and in doing so experience the pure ecstasy you truly desire…?
I am proving her wrong already. I already receive love.
How can you guarantee ecstasy from this process?
Are you receiving love if it’s not reciprocal? Aren’t you only allowing the love to go directly into the black hole of the void without actually experiencing it? (It doesn’t touch you.. your heart, right.. because you don’t feel it..?)
How can you know what you’ve never experienced..? (Ecstasy)
If you faced the Creature, integrated it as the part of you it is.. Wouldn’t that allow you to further your greatness by defeating the fear of the void?
Of course I am receiving love, ask those who comment here whether they loved their narcissist at some point and they will confirm they did. I do experience it, it is called fuel.
Hence my question!
There is an ‘if’. I prefer certainty.
*smiling*
Are you actually engaging in the process with the good doctors or are you simply cognitively fulfilling the requirements to obtain your inheritance?
Given your incredible descriptions of your ..skills.. in kissing.. etc.. I’m sure I’m not the only woman who would sincerely wish you could invest yourself fully in those experiences – pure, true passion – being based in emotion – would surely lead to a form of pleasure – perhaps ecstasy – you never know.. 😉
There is no certainty in life.
‘Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position. But certainty is an absurd one.’
– Voltaire
I am engaging in the process but I am doing it for a variety of other reasons too.
The recipient believes I am investing myself fully so it is all good!
You make certainty.
Why face something when I have it locked away? I do not want to look on it.
—
You contradict yourself. I mean. You tell us of your omnipotence, how great being a greater is etc. And. I. Believe. You… YOU ARE. What doesn’t fit or sit well is that fault line which could cause an earth quake at any time. I am even thinking it’s my fear, not yours. I don’t want you to be afraid of anything. And you pretend (damn good job!) not to be afraid (effected, affected?) by any one or any thing. Because you have or can seize the endless supply of fuel. EXCEPT THERE. Weird construct. I mean it’s a poorly engineered design if one thing can topple it all. “The Creature.” What the hell. You, Face. Everything. Except this? A life times supply’s of fuel goes into one pipeline and that is to NOT go there? I know your kind deflect. I know they contradict. I do not know if they or more to the point, you say what they are afraid of. I doubt it. On one hand I appreciate your honesty. On the other I am perplexed and confused. 100% nonplussed. Face the damn creature. Or it obviously wins. Is winning, and is conning you into thinking other. It’s deceit it (well done) convincing you: HG cannot face the creature. Bullshit.
It is not cannot, it is do not need to. Therein lies the difference.
You need to swim through shark infested water to reach safety – you need to do it, so you do it.
You have an alternative route so you can pass over the shark-infested water to reach safety – you do not need to do it, therefore why do so?
Would you be able to tell if one of the objects of your affection was faking their love for you?
Would it matter to you?
Does fake love generate as much fuel as the true love?
Control is illusory.. life is fickle..
Yes.
Yes.
It would wound.
Doesn’t matter, we create illusions. I am sure millions of victims would confirm the control felt very real to them.
So to be clear, you expect us to be delighted with your fake love but if we returned like for like, you would be wounded??
Control *over destiny is illusory
(it is impossible to say actually as I realize saying this – one can effect change.. for better or worse.. so perhaps I should say – control is temporary? )
Beyond as fuel, do you have a desire to feel love the way we do?
*did you try Indy’s mindfulness info?
Not only expect it but know you are delighted.
That is the mindset of the defeated.
I see no need to.
I did.
Hmm.. defeat.. as when one escapes you?
The need to constantly chase quarry could cease if you offered real love – that is the advantage to you – we would stay… willingly..
What was the outcome of your mindfulness experience?
I am enjoying our exchange. Thank you for such insight… (as ever)
One escapes me? Never.
I do not have any problem in having people stay, but I see there is force in your observation.
I will be writing about it.
I am also.
Hi, which of your books elaborate on the subject of this article? You mention a book ” The creature” but obviously it’s not publiced yet. Also, are there any other articles that the creature, the inner void and oblivion are discussed? Thank you
Maria, correct, the book ‘The Creature’ is not available yet but if you read Fuel, Fury and the various alliterative titled texts you will gain additional information about this concept, pending the delivery of ‘The Creature’.
Oblivion such as causing you to not know who, what where you are etc? You’re a stranger to yourself?
I believe I felt a part of this void growing in me, as I was raised with three narcissists. There are a few reasons I didn’t pursue it.
1. I could feel it would lead me to having no anchor. My mother had no anchor. I would then not know what was going on and feel anxious.
2. The narcissists frequently fell in exhausted emotional wrecks, or failed at things they initially seemed to care about. They made bad decisions.
3. I had the sensation of not knowing what thoughts I should think, what to wear, what to do. I didn’t like it.
4. The narcissists were dependent on everybody else. They sat around bitching and that was all they did. All they did was blame and I could see this as the road to failure. I wanted to be successful.
5. Nobody in the family had a conscience. If I didn’t, who would man the ship?
So I built my character from reading books and noticing things in others that I liked.
My question to you HG is, what is oblivion? Would you feel it to be a permanent state?
Do you think an empath should ever treat a narcissist with respect?
Oblivion is a nothingness, ceasing to exist. It is always there waiting to consume me but that is not going to happen.
Yes they should. There are those of my kind who deserve respect because of our brilliance. There are others who do not. Empaths should respect the danger they face and some of them ought to learn to respect themselves.
HG
I apologize for jumping in your comment thou caught my attention.
Is respecting and fearing the danger different? For myself I see them as two different aspects. Fearing it will /can paralyze you and cause emotional reactions, respect it you understand and can move with it which in turn you respond to it.
Yet fear can/does hold one within chains, causing an emotional reaction instead of responding.
They are different.
My views in what you speak of?
Hi H.G.
Just finished reading “Further confessions” and the article above talks about the creature which was also referenced in your book or books-I have seen it referenced in many. Could you please answer a questions which I am trying to desperately understand-you know how we empaths are and our need to know and understand, LOL. It’s just the way our mind operates. Anyways, my question is this. You state, “Your treacherous criticism punches massive great holes in them allowing the mocking howls of The Creature to echo to me.” Are the mocking howls of the creature those which make those of your kind feel fear, weakness, and helplessness? Are these the words which all Narcissist want to block out by gaining fuel? I am really trying to complete this puzzle and with each book/article a new piece emerges.
Excellent article, per always!
You are remarkably vulnerable in your blog. Bravo. Kudos to the world of safety .
More insightful than any narcissist. Self aware? Noone can hold a candle to you. So in the fierceness of who you are…you are given a rare glimpse into an alter ego…. or is it an alter?…
Maybe you are existing in your alter ego….
Which is never where you are intended to stay…
To whom much is given… much is required. ..
😉
Oh, no! Did my comment to ABB get deleted?? It was a long post on reasons not to leave and validation. Should I re-write HG or did it get deleted?
No it has not been deleted.
I did not see it. HG may I see it?
See what?
Ohhhh, you devil!!! She is referencing my comment to her.
Is this where I bow to you?
The comment Indy made to me?
It will be in moderation at present.
Soooo…will I ever see it?
It is in moderation as I wrote. Like many other comments from people.
OK. Sorry. I will be more patient. 💙
Its in moderation.
ABB
Bitch shut up!
Nobody puts baby in a box! (or corner) lol.
But seriously….I have thought the same things. I have even threatened to shut the f**k up on occasion to give HG time to get his books done rather than moderate my opinions, but then I read something I just HAVE to reply to and away I go again….Just because you have a special “niche” (not box-even though Im sure your box is special) doesn’t mean we dont need and enjoy your perspective. Besides-I cant spare any playmates and despite Dick Taters view-this blog is NOT JUST ABOUT HIM. So stay and be your usual self cause I think Im in devaluation and my next comment/post could cause my discard. Someones gotta represent for Team “Im not here to shit butterflies and piss rainbows” and get the old dude to 4 million. Jesus I got some crackers out for that whine and Im off carbs! Do my comments make me look fat?
Who are you calling old?
HG
*Gulps hard with side eyes and looking at feet*
Um….I meant to say gold. Youre gold dude, and worth more than your weight in it.
*Whispers to Indy: That was a close one*
NA,
I say we warm that naught step for him.
**Throws a paper airplane at the dictators head.**
walking back to step, with brownies for all!
Missed.
Enjoy the brownies – twirls moustache –
“Twists mustache” LOL What, you going to tie me to the tracks, now? I will have to get Canadian Mounty Trudeau to come to my rescue. “Here I come to save the day!”
Brownie? **offers**
Er no brownie thank you.
NA and ABB,
Right On, NA! Want to share the devaluation step together?
(Hint, HG, this is where you use your charm)
**Moves over, passes pop corn** 🙂
Indy
I would love to join you and NA.
Come join, ABB. I have brownies!! 🙂
Fridays and Brownies yay us!!!
Indeed!! Have fun plans for the weekend? I got roped into a photo shoot tomorrow. I am no model (being short and all), but I have been told this will be “fun”. An artist friend of mine needed “models”. All I know is I am keep my clothes ON! Ha,ha,ha… Oh, well, I get a free lunch in a funky part of town. How you doing?
Careful Indy- sounds like a porn shoot lol.
Haha, NA. No, it is a friend. I will be modeling jewelry in some brickyard/industrial jazzy part of town with others I know. Like I said, I am not disrobing. It is still cold you know! 😉
NA,
My niche box….nice one. Thanks for your advice. I have no problems yukking it up in the arena. I will still do so but it may not be seen. I do try to see the comedy in pain. I thought I brought that to the table here. I love your comments, sense of humor and your life experiences. I will gladly sit on the naughty step with you and Indy only if she brings her special brownies! Is that okay HG?
Hi AhOh,
Indeed, it is a real thing. Stress (cortisol playing a major role) setting off autoimmune responses is serious and real. I personally have felt the effects of it. My family has a lot of different AI disorders, unfortunately, including Lupus. I am screened for it yearly. Thus, my desire to get ahead of it while the symptoms are less severe. I am already feeling more energy and strength and a little less pain 🙂
Oh, those trips sound lovely!! Definitely, be careful internationally given being American. I do not think they would know you are a Trump supporter though, as long as you do not wear that god awful red hat 😉
I tease because I like you and your fire! (Even if I do not like Trump-ducks to take cover as you throw something at me :-).
XOX
Because he was married I didn’t want to break up his family – no matter how much under his spell I was. I asked him if he was serious to leave. I saw a pattern of him being a passenger and I didn’t want to cop any blame for their marriage break up – I shouldn’t be the reason. But also, it was way too big and I would have to commit to him and as brainwashed as I was, I didn’t want this burden. I knew subconsciously that something was not right very early on.
I would only be with him if he moved out and onto his own place. He wouldn’t do that. He moved away, I had a time limit – it passed – we parted ways – but then I discovered I was a month pregnant. I didn’t know he was a narc until I was 6 months pregnant.
We aren’t together because I caught him in a lie and that was it – how much shit would I take (that’s the never ending test) – about THIS much. Ironically it was his marriage that protected and still protects me/us. Although his wife had been told (lied to) about the pregnancy, I told her about the lie he told me 5 months later. Of course she didn’t believe me. But I did manage to get in that he has NPD, so we’ll see how long her denial holds out. She certainly came across as brainwashed out of her mind. She said things hat showed she is batshit mind controlled.
I had my son because he is a gift, made in what I thought was complete and total love. And he is – on my side of things. Without him, perhaps I would never have woken up. I am now awake. I am so very grateful that I am not with this person. 🙏
^ in reply to NarcAngel. I think I screwed up.
JAR
Thanks for sharing your situation. It helps to put context to someones comments. I could feel your anger in them but was unsure if it was because you were deceived by what he is or the fact that you were denied a future with him. I have to say though-I dont understand the anger directed at his wife. She is brainwashed (and probably for a long time), as you say you once were, and gratefully she is filling his time so that you have had time to gain distance and clarity. I have been very tough on women who have had children with Narcs as I was the child victim of my Mothers brainless and violent choice (StepNarc) and I have never forgiven her for that and for adding 3 more victims. I know now that you did not know what he was at the time but you did say you knew something was wrong early on and I cant lie-I will never understand why women rush into having babies so early in a relationship, I am glad however that you are now away from him and are fully awake to focus on your future and that of your son. There are many here that have not yet arrived where you are and some that never will.
I never want a future with this man. The mental gymnastics are just too much and I will fail every test he could ever lay out – as will my son. I am my son’s protector – unlike his wife and her three children to him. She helps her husband to scapegoat my son to live her image perfect life of lies and deception.
My anger is because he ran off to his home town and ‘got away with it’. Got away with adultery, abuse, abandonment of his own child. No doubt I am triangulated as perpetrator to his saviour wife and he, the victim. He even forced me to court to prove paternity for whatever agenda he holds.
My grief is for my son who will never have the love of his biological father. A lot of us have to just deal with the fact we were raped by this person, but my son is innocent and I really grieve for the loss. There is nothing that can be done. I can’t control anything, I can’t change anything, I can’t coerce, blackmail, rage, cry, threaten anything. There is no love for his son. I accept this but it is a bitter pill to swallow. But yet his wife enables him to project an image of perfect family man. That disgusts me. She enables his affairs. I feel I am her victim as much as his. Enablement makes me angry because when there is evidence, people should use their logic, of which she seems to have none. I wasn’t THAT brainwashed – when I woke up, I got out.
The child was a blessing – he wasn’t planned. Well – perhaps the universe planned him. And on a good day, I believe that the narc and I planned him in lives long ago and far away.
I find the blessing and the curse interwoven and it is taking me quite some time to figure it out, reconcile it and accept it.
Narc Angel,
My ex-narc died 5 days ago.
I actually have become friends with one of his other fuel sources because she contacted me.
Thanks to HG, and getting myself educated here, I am not angry at all about her and that feels really good. Anger eats one alive.
She was taken for $70,000…. and she also thought she was engaged to him. I have tried to help her to understand by sending her to this blog.
I pray for her, I know how bad it hurts.
H
I’m sure you are in a maelstrom of emotion over his passing and I wish you peace. It speaks volumes about the type of person you are and how far youve come that you are no longer angry and sharing what you have learned with another fuel source so that she can arrive there also. Continued healing.
NA
It’s been a journey of agony, higher learning, and learning to love. Thanks for the kind words.
Yes I have come a very long way…since you and I crossed lanes. Now, I am working on understanding the soul and the soulless.
That is a dark rabbit hole I find myself.
I would be interested in your perspective of the soul of the narcissist.
such a vivid description. when did The Creature come to be? has it become more demanding (needs more fuel to keep it at bay) as you get older?
All will be explained CLJ in the book The Creature.
Would you say some empaths are the same, genetically made for a certain path vs environmentally pushed in this direction?
It would seem logical that that would be the case.
yes, of course, but surely you can throw out a crumb or two about the rise of The Creature
I might.
HG
Nooooo! Now that I know the book is coming, no spoilers! I want to read it all in one place.
Hi Ava,
Well, deeper than a reflection(mirrors are only of external behaviors and seen emotions). More like a rabbit hole in the depths of who he is so…the back of the mirror ;).
Hi Indy,
the back of the mirror, haha. 🙂
Well, I feel like I’ve fallen into the narcissistic rabbit hole since I got here …
He could install an inner mirror? 😉
My other message to you fell victim to censorship. 🙁
Because this isn’t a cooking or bakery blog!
KGB HG,
What do I have to do to get a good brownie recipe to deal with my narc-effects? You crack me up 😂
Not a baker, Indy
Haha Indy, how did you know it was sbout brownies?! 🙂
You could still post the rest of the message, HG.
It’s not a baking blog.
“But I don’t want to go among mad people,” Alice remarked.
“Oh, you can’t help that,” said the Cat: “we’re all mad here. I’m mad. You’re mad.”
“How do you know I’m mad?” said Alice.
“You must be,” said the Cat, “or you wouldn’t have come here.”
😊 Twas brillig and the slithy toves did gire and gimble in the wabe.
All Mimsy here, Indy
Hi HG,
This question is a bit off the tangent.
When a Narc frequently greets friends or acquaintances of their intimate primary source with statements such as …
You look familiar, where do I know you from?
Is this a genuine case of a dull memory or another one of their manipulative games?
if it is the latter what is their motivation for saying such things?
More than likely manipulation. It is done to unnerve the listener so they are on the back foot thinking about how they are known to the narc and also it may cause suspicion to rise from others who are there.
Have you ever thought of asking the Holy Spirit to fill that void ?
No.
Reposted.
Re: HG deciding to just ‘behave’ for want of a better word.
Being aware of what we do is one thing…look at us for instance.. it isnt easy to just change behavior following abuse. If so after our narcs abuse we would just stop and walk away wouldn’t we.
If it was as clear and easy as just deciding not to do things then none of us would even be here trying to make sense of our own relationships.
We would just “decide” we were not hurt and move on.
“Decide” not to have our behaviour and not do the things that we also do.
For some, maybe it is a decision and they get through differently.
Some people are psychologically damaged and end up doing what they feel they ‘must’ do.
There is no condoning abusing others following abuse done, that is a given, however there would be no good doctors if all these acts were a simple decision on anyone’s part..
Being aware of what you are and what you do is no guarantee that stopping is a mere decision.
This really made me dig deep and self reflect. The comments i can agree with on both sides. Anger and also understanding. The need for fuel to some comes across as a feeble excuse and to others is very real as described.
Being in a codependant affair of 6 yrs i can relate to this need for fuel. I dont think this fuel is limited to narcissists. Its a void filler this fuel. Narcs find positive and negative fuel fill them. Codependants yearn for the positive and we accept the fake love fuel to fill ours. Both the narc and codependant take the fuel and try to fill that void and in the meantime avoid that creature we feel which is intense emptiness lack of self love. Were afraid to face that emptiness and think its easier to get that fuel to ease the symptoms of an empty love of ourselves and the truths that go with it. We hate that person inside we are avoiding.
As far as victims go. I cant sit here and preach to HG or any narc to change because hes hurting people in the process because ive hurt someone so dear my husband. Our marriage has had problems deep ones but hes a good man and someone i respect so deeply. Even tho im not in love with him i love him deeply. Despite that love i still choose this narc and why is that…to fuel my empty deep void of that child that struggles with a mother who never taught her to accept herself and feel good in her own skin. Fuel that masks the deep pain of shame over who i am. Fuel to ease the lonliness and depression of facing myself and my marriage and fixing and making hard choices. The narc for 6 yrs has eased all of that and i for him. Weve constructed a system of medicating the awful emotions and realizations of this problem within each other. I do love and care for my narc but its not a healthy love and not one to build anything “real” on. So yes fuel is very real but whats more real is facing reality and the pain that goes along with it. The creature in my life is my problems and my lack of acceptance who i am and the shame that surrounds the fact i dont love myself enough to face and deal with it all. In the meantime my husband is a victim of my need to fuel myself and the life im unhappy with.
This is a raw confession in this blog and one i can really identify with. Id be a hypocrite to be angry and preach about the victims the narc has hurt when im doing it myself. Im thankful for the confessions in this blog because they help me to see in myself the very same thing and why. I dont choose to hurt my hubby intentionally but in wanting to mask my creature with fuel ive done just that 🙁
Narc Affair,
I am happy that you put that down in words. You are trying hard to understand and I appreciate what you have written. Just knowing that you are aware of what your relationship dynamics are, is proof that taking in knowledge from a source like HG produces results.
The thought of never having mattered is indeed a painful one, and it is not limited to your kind…
It seems to me that you are, in essence, seeking unconditional love, the kind of love every child hopes to receive from their parents. It also seems to me that you are treating your spouses the way you do to test their love for you. You expect them to fail, that’s why you are so dismissive towards them, that’s why you treat them as objects. And, indeed, they ‘fail’ – due to your abuse, which you conveniently forget to add to the equation.
But I would like you to re-think your notion of love. I have been pondering on the meaning of ‘unconditional’, and came to the conclusion that no one’s love towards another is truly, and completely, unconditional. Not even a mother’s love for her child. Does the mother of a serial killer still love her son or daughter? She might not. And even if she did, her love would be altered by what happened.
So, if you expect to be loved -no matter what you do- it will never work. This kind of love would be very unhealthy, if it existed at all. Remember, it is a giving and taking. You need to learn to give, and give honestly…
This explains it in a most concise manner. I understand and might just have what I need to not attend class anymore. I don’t think so, but I might.
The creature is horrid and needs to be annihilated. Fuel at the expense of others does not fn do that. Don’t you want to win against the creature? The creature is winning and you are not! Who cares if you post this?
“You are our salvation and if holding a mirror up to achieve this salvation is what must be done, then it will be done.”
No, HG, we are not your salvation. You, knowing you and your true self, that is your salvation because this will fill that void. Mindfulness, taking pause, paying attention to the inner empty place with curiosity (without using distraction, coming back to focus without judgement ) will help you see. Have you tried this practice? It is something that has to be done daily (5 minutes even) to see true effects.
I haven’t Indy, no.
Are you interested in trying it whole heartedly?
I query whether it will have effect on my mind. I need it to be firing on all cylinders Indy to achieve what needs to be done.
Hi HG,
I understand and part of that is to diligence the beast and the boy, no? And that is the undoing of self development and thus the empty hole you fill with fuel.
Five minutes a day, not an hour. I know you are a busy man and are well read. I am sure you have read about how businesses are utilizing mindfulness to increase quality work, increase creativity and sharpness, no? It’s a win win. Imagine, HG, being even better, badder and a more efficient all around man?
(I got biscuits to sell and sandboxes in Florida too!)
How would five minutes do any good Indy, measure the medicine to the man!
Spending 5 minutes a day mindfully is better than no minutes. Actually harder than it sounds, coming from a mindfulness practitioner here. And, there is some research behind this. If you wish I will give some sources on it.
Are you saying given your level of badassery, you’ll need a larger dose? Well, haha, I could look into IV mindfulness for you! Mainline that stuff to the heart and mind. No, it won’t burn sweets, it’s not holy water 😉 Up for the challenge?
That’s what I am saying Indy.
Feed me the information and I shall take a look.
Do you want research supporting it in general or how to do it in general or something else? Or more specific?
What it is and the effects.
On it! And, I really appreciate your willingness to even look. It may take some time to find so I may send tomorrow. Thank you again
Hi HG,
As promised, here is one article that answers what mindfulness is and what are its associated benefits from the American Psychological Association. I can provide more information, if you wish. Like how to’s etc.
http://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/07-08/ce-corner.aspx
This is more some basics on effects on brain from Scientific American:
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/what-does-mindfulness-meditation-do-to-your-brain/
Another basics on Mindfulness from Harvard:
https://www.helpguide.org/harvard/benefits-of-mindfulness.htm
Specific to NPD and mindfulness (Journal articles, not exhaustive, just a couple recent ones)
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Christopher_Barry6/publication/270961710_Adolescent_self-compassion_Associations_with_narcissism_self-esteem_aggression_and_internalizing_symptoms_in_at-risk_males/links/55e4949a08aede0b5735798f.pdf
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14753634.2016.1126979
I would love to know what you discover while reading this and what your take on it is and whether you are game to try it? Definitely ask docs too as I do not wish interfere with something they are doing as well.
Mindfully ~om~
Indy
Whoops typo, silence not diligence
Indy: how do you believe this would work? Honest, open question. Considering that psychopaths have already the parts of the brain hightened which monks after long meditation achieve, also given that they practice non-attachment and non-personalization already, and also that they have no emotions like us to be mindfully recognized and remain absolutely calm and fearless and rational no matter what… Within their range of emotions they might already do that by default, or there would be no need to plan new fuel sources …. How exactly do you think that would work? They are already masters in focus, looking behind the illusion, etc. I’m really interested in what you think, no criticism here at all.
I also know that they are not exactly good at “doing nothing” and observing own inner worlds …
I was also wondering how the “who am I” meditation would work with a narcissist. 😉 *haha*
BTW you had asked HG the same thing before and he had answered in the same manner. 😉 I believe this is going exactly nowhere.
P.S.: I’ve read that exposure is also a good trauma cure, so that’s what we’re doing here. 😉
Hi Ava,
No, they are great questions. No criticism taken at all.
First, those with NPD do not practice healthy non attachment in the Buddhist or monk sense. Those with cluster B, including those with NPD, are clingy at times and reject just as quickly. They care very deeply about the opinion of others and are hurt greatly by criticism. That is attachment, an attachment disorder is more likely, not healthy nnattachment. This is why they need fuel.
Two, they do have emotions to engage in mindfulness of. The range and depth is different than typical. Many are suppressed, repressed, and not expressed. This can be change through paying attention to various internal and physical sensations. I could write in detail on this but it would take a lot of space here. I recommend reading Marsha Linehan, ACT work, and Jon Kabbalah Zinn on this.
Three, they have thoughts to mindfully pay attention to as well nternally that are linked to emotion.
Now, there are many different types of mindfulness. Mindfulness has been shown to increase one’s ability to know oneself, self-awareness and self identity. This is something many folks with personality disorders are relatively weaker in development. This emptiness that HG talks about is a disconnect of self identity. Likely stolen in childhood due to maltreatment. Self identity can be understood better through being more internally mindful of an internal process. He remains busy all the time because he does not want to look internally. He is not engaging and internal mindfulness.
I agree with you, he has exceptional attention to detail to others and this is called external mindfulness or objec mindfulness. This is also heightened in apex predators. I’m proposing internal mindfulness. There also other types of mindfulness (compassion based, relational based) that he could benefit from from later down the road. First things first, internal self development. He has emotions, just is aware of a restricted range now. Others were suppressed and repressed. This is also where emotion based mindfulness would help.
I don t recall the last time I asked this question of HG, though I do not doubt I forgot. Lol my memory is foggy at times.
Keep the good questions coming though as it makes for good debate and learning for me too.
Hi Indy,
I am also very interested in this discussion and to see where it goes!
Indy,
I just now read the thread. I did the mindfulness thing with my therapist. I had to to stop and figure out what the emotion really was . Labeling it. I had to write down something about it. I had to look at identifying the missing emotions in others and consciously think about the positive reason for them expressing it. I then had to write that down. I would take the book to therapy and discuss the emotions and ask questions to try to learn more about connecting a emotion to a feeling. I was very mixed up with hurt and anger. I came to learn about hurt and it was very very painful to admit the vulnerability and once I could be vulnerable with my doctor I started to be able to feel because he made me feel safe. I had to build a self identity because I did not have one. It all came from the external. I really was very resistant to the process and fought it quite a bit. Eventually I got with the program when I had my son. I realize by what you wrote that I have been loosely throwing around the term cured. It really is a dialing back of the npd and sociopathy and dialing up the new found emotions. It has taken me a long time to adjust. I still have to tweak it. I suppose though that is a human trait, daily adjusting your thoughts and feelings. Its just foreign when you had almost no emotion whatsoever. You never had to adjust what was not there. So yes I agree this works and I agree that it is not so much a cure as it is an adjustment. It still involves the decision to change. I will not give up that idea. I do not believe it is genetic. Thanks for writing your piece.
Hi ABB,
My hat is off to you, that is some seriously hard work you have taken on and have reaped the benefits. It sounds like you had a DBT trained therapist because that is exactly the same technique I used in sessions as well. I will say, more than technique, it is the relationship between the client and therapist that is most important. Without trust and genuine sharing, its harder to get observable progress. I also experienced this technique on myself, as while learning DBT you have to go through it and your personal therapy to know it.
As a personal note, I too had a hard time identifying certain emotions as well, even though I do not have a PD diagnosis, I had a hard time with anger and disgust. I definitely have traits of seeking external approval and identity (BPDish). I know the delicious feeling of fuel, though I only like positive and never got the taste for negative. In general, I dislike diagnoses because they really do not show the true range of human experiences. Diagnoses, like cure/no cure is a black/white thing too. DBT is about seeing the grey. Life is complex, too complex for black and white.
Again, thank you for sharing this, it means a lot to hear, as another person who is going through the emotional woods with you.
Indy
Thx Indy. Cognitive distortion causes me to box it in. I have been commenting on here alot and using labels in doing so. I see this is boxing me in amongst the moderator and other commenters. I do believe it is not cut and dry for anyone. It is a sliding scale. It seems pointless for me to defend my diagnosis. Trying to convince others of what I was labeled as by the doctors I see is counterproductive. I guess others want to tell me what I am not and what my thoughts and feelings are. I know my own experience and they don’t have all the information because they don’t know me. So to cherry pick what I have said and written does not give me a chance to give the whole picture. I know I had overly narcissistic traits when I was young. I know that I exhibit sociopathic tendencies. I know I am empathic now. It doesn’t really matter what others believe or how I got to where I am. I just thought that stating here in HGs world, my experience and my story of how my life has turned out so far could contribute to the healing of others. I am starting to feel like it is pointless to be here and contribute to that. I think I don’t have anything to offer if people don’t believe what I say. It is the truth. It is my truth. I just don’t like others saying I am not this label or that label because I don’t fit into the box for that diagnosis. I don’t think any of us fit perfectly in a box and they are all variations on a theme. I think the only way to continue here is to not offer anything personal and just encourage others by cheerleading. It takes my outlet away, but it is altruistic. Maybe I am not smart enough to convey in words my intention to help. Maybe my humor is not conducive to healing. Maybe I should sit down and shut up. I didn’t intend to challenge HG or anyone’s else’s beliefs. I simply wanted to throw out another way of looking at it. I don’t contribute by doing that I guess. My feelings are not valid. So maybe I should step back and just read the blog and not ask questions that go unanswered or raise issues for constructive thinking. What do you think Indy? Or should I be asking HG because this is his arena?
Hi ABB,
I wrote a long letter to you yesterday and some computer glitch ate it So, I am going to try to recapture it now. I hope you do not leave. From the get go, I had a strong affinity for what you wrote and shared and felt your journey was very important to read, your feedback to HG was both informative and humorous, and I know I would just plain miss you. Now, I know that stepping back a little isn’t a bad thing either, keeping life and blog in balance. I am working on this. This blog can be a bit addicting for sure given all its lovely people and information and of course drama .
Now, diagnoses are a tricky thing. They are manmade, a tool to quickly communicate a cluster of symptoms from one person to another and help with treatment planning. It is a slippery thing, diagnoses, as they are, like you said, on a spectrum or sliding scale of presentation and severity. And, they are time bound historically. One minute a diagnosis exists (i.e. Asperger’s Disorder), next it has been either deleted from the manuals or renamed (Now Autism Spectrum Disorder). Historically, being homosexual was a diagnosis, now it is well established as a sexual orientation and not a diagnosis to be treated. Psychological/behavioral diagnoses particularly are prone to history, time and research and the whims of society.
Just know this, your feelings and what you know for you is always valid, because they are your internal experiences and no one can take that from you. No one can diagnose you without seeing you and without proper training and expertise. So, I say this, you know what is real and true for you. Do not let this dim your light and your achievements in your recovery. Shine on bright star
Indy
Indy,
Thank you. I appreciate your kindness. I do enjoy HGs writing and his books. In fact I have shared much of his material with my friends and acquaintances. I am glad to have found this blog to see the dynamics others have experienced in dealing with narcissistic behavior. I do think humor is part of any healing process, That is why I try to be funny, it lightens my own darkness and hopefully others too. You have to find a positive in amongst the negative. Trying to look for the positive is a constructive task. I was raised by such negative thinking people that it is something I have dealt with for a very long time. It is nothing new to take abuse. I have many scars to prove that. I will continue to shine bright like a diamond in despite of my excentuated eyeshadow.
Hi Ava,
I forgot to respond to your PS on exposure. Indeed, if done in the right way and amount it helps with some aspects of trauma. Mindfulness also serves as exposure too, depending on how you do it. When mindful of inner emotion, you are exposed to it. Often those with NPD and others will keep busy to avoid emotions and memories and inner voices. Mindfulness serves as exposure up build tolerance and awareness of such.
Trauma therapy is ideally done in stages. Stage one is stabilizing of emotions and behaviors(ie DBT), stage two is deeper work and sometimes body/somatic work and memory work and ultimately the goal is integration of memories into a less repressed and less flight-fight location in the mind and in more cortical areas. That is where psychoanalysis and EMDR and other forms of therspy are used. It’s hard tho as this is used with those with more BPD presentations and NPD is trickier. As I said to AhOh, I’m not suggesting cure but improvement in life and perhaps more access to emotions that are buried and more connection to a sense of self identity rather than having to mirror. No guarantees, as one can never guarantee in therapy. It’s up to HG what he wants and his team what they think is suitable. Just sharing ideas from my own experience.
Wow, Indy, thank you. 🙂 Great points. I will certainly think about what you’ve written a little longer. I really was overlooking something here.
I remember because I found it so interesting in every way. 😉
In other words, he has to turn the mirror back to himself.
Thank you all!!
Ah, this looks familiar. Let the pity party begin.
ABB,
You bring this on yourself each and every time someone challenges you. I have seen it numerous times between yourself and HG and now it is happening with you and Claudine/myself because what you are saying simply does not make sense nor does it fit with the definitions of NPD or APD that have been assigned to these disorders by bloody medical professionals.
Funny that you are the only person to make these claims. Not one person on this blog has ever said their narc/socio was able to learn and embrace empathy in a similar fashion. Over 3 million hits and thousands upon thousands of comments and not a single one. Weird.
I cannot sit here and read the inanities and myths you propagate. I do not need to know your life story or experience to know that what you are asserting is, quite simply, completely false.
Depending on the day, hour, month you are a sociopath, you have NPD or you are a sociopathic-empath. As I already stated, NPD and APD are two completely different diagnoses. All sociopaths/psychopaths are narcissists, not all narcissists are sociopaths/psychopaths.
If you are able to step back and wonder if/recognize that you are a narcissist, then that means you are capable of self-reflection. If you are capable of self-reflection then, although you may have narcissistic tendencies, you most certainly do not have NPD or APD.
As for genetics, you can deny it all you want but science ultimately proves you wrong on numerous fronts and, so do the results of the genetic testing I was forced to undergo along with other members of my family.
As much as we do not know your story, it is clear you know next to nothing about narcs/sociopaths/psychopaths, which I would assume you would since you claim to be one.
You stand by what you say because that is all you have to back up the claims you have made.
You can talk the talk but you cannot walk the walk. That is based on everything I have seen here on the blog and not just these new claims that you are a recovering sociopath. Christ, just writing that sets my teeth on edge.
You come off as a know-it-all and a hypocrite. Telling us we cannot dispute you, while you sit here and do exactly that. Saying you are done with the matter and then making a snide comment in order to gain sympathy and compliments and praise.
It is true that it is possible to alter or move away from simple narcissism/narcissistic tendencies. So, unfortunately for you, you are neither unique nor special nor a rare breed. Them’s the breaks.
If you want to claim and hold out hope that our kind are capable of empathy or changing our behaviour, you are free to do so. If our kind has proved anything it is that just because you believe it, does not mean it is true.
What you are asking him to do is the same method my therapist wants to use with me. She, herself, well versed in this disorder of HG’s, N/S, has told me, there is NO CURE. They need to do what they do like I need to breathe.
So tell what you know so I can share.
If it is the method that helps someone like HG, I would think the cases would be published.
So is there cases that have been documented? If so I would like to read them.
Hi AhOh,
I never said it was a cure. That would be silly to claim for any PD. Plus I do not view mental health issues in black/White ways of cure/no cure but by increments of improved life. I see the dialectic here. that someone can have NPD and still improve and grow psychologically.
Now, with that said, HG has the ability to grow and improve to a degree, particularly in self identity, self awareness of a broader range of emotions. Remember, not to long ago people gave up on those with BPD as well (my area of expertise). Many gave up on them until Marsha Linehan came along with DBT. Top method used DBT for those with BPD and other severe emotional dystegulation disorders. (Lots of data on this) Cornerstone of DBT is mindfulness. There are studies of its use with those with APD though I personally think it gives them more weapons 😉 However, mindfulness is different.
Further, all people can benefit from its use, not just those with emotional or self identity issues.
So, let me be clear, my suggestion to HG was not a suggestion for cure for NPD but for improved life for him to improve self identity, self awareness, emotion awareness and seeds of other things.
Besides, mindfulness itself is not a cure for anything but a way of life to improve various components.
Finally, I think just giving up on those with NPD is what the entire field had done for way to long. It is exceptionally rare for one to show up for treatment (because it’s not viewed as a problem for them) and be aware like HG.
I am of the perspective that trying is better than nothing if there is no risk in the method.
Now do not mistaken my message as hope in abusive relationships. I am not recommending those here to hang onto a relationship with someone with NPD on hopes of change. Abuse is abuse and one should leave. Follow HGs advise fully. This is about a recommendation to try for personal growth for HG. I told him to check with his docs first.
If you would like references on the effects of mindfulness on a broad range of disorders, I cited one above.
Indy, Thank you for your explanation. Maybe HG can suggest this method to his doctors.
I have read many times that HG is fine with how is he. He has said he has learned from the people on the blog and his sessions with his professionals has also helped in making him more aware.
Isn’t it best he works with his good doctors and not try it from posting on the blog?
There are also youtube videos with this woman who came up with this method of self reflecting.
Besides this, how are you?
Hi AhOh,
Totally agree with you. He should check it out with docs and only do what he agrees to and not guided on how in a blog from an anonymous person. 😊
I’m doing OK. I’m engaging more active self care than ever as I have seen more autoimmune symptoms since leaving my relationship 7 mos ago. I can’t believe it’s already been over a half a year. One month into clean eating and doing well. I’ve cut my job back to working only one full-time job and doing consults work on the side. That has helped a lot.
How are you? Any wonderful travels I can live vicariously through you? 😊 I definitely recommend you pick up that book, the body keeps score. It’s by a very well known figure in trauma work, van der kolk.
Indy, It is a real thing of the mind can create illnesses in our bodies. Autoimmune issues can be most difficult . My sister-in-law has Lupus.
I need to stop with sugar. I had my yearly physical last week. All is good for the most part. I do pamper myself.
Next big trip is the Galapagos Islands the first 8 days in June. I was going to go to Europe for a month this summer but I am rethinking due to the issues of the world and me being an American and a Trump supporter. I think I will travel the US. We will see. I do want to go to Sweden again.
Hi AhOh,
I have a post to HG in moderation on mindfulness and a couple sources. Just realized you responded without seeing that.
Hopefully posting soon.
Indy
HG
Would you provide a few examples of what the creature whispers?
They will be provided in detail in the forthcoming book.
HG
Understood. Looking forward to the book.
NARC ANGEL your posts make me laugh (in a good way) again and again. 🙂 I just started imagining the whispering creature and what it might have to say …
Ava NA is the destroyer of keyboards in my life with comments, I have had to make sure all drinks are a safe distance and no drinking when coming here to read comments.
AVA
Oh believe me there were many scenarios played out in my cranium lol, but I was being completely serious when I asked the question (this time).
See, this is why I wasn’t ‘chosen’. Cry me a river – and I’ll go back to my own life and live it in peace.
JAR
Chosen? By who?
By the narc. He already has primary supply and tried to embed me. He knew within 6 weeks that there would never be a future for us. So did I, to be honest. He was just an object to see my own reflection. But he smelt good and he had warm skin.
JAR
Your answer made it sound as though you did not decide for yourself but that you were not chosen and that caused the outcome that you are no lomger together. Would things be different if he had chosen you and not returned to his wife? Also, why did you decide to have his child if you knew so early on it would not work?
I replied but I think I’m missed the thread.
“I poured everything I had into you, and you were still empty.”
Is salvation and feeling saved something you personally care about? Or have you now moved in a direction securing what you want your legacy to be so you are indifferent at this point?
If my fuel was very low then salvation becomes an issue but otherwise it is not, Clarece.
My narc cannot stand to be alone with his own thoughts. He feels he will perish if he does. He admitted that he needs to feel “alive” and does so through risky behaviors. I think he even does them vicariously thought other people if at all possible.
I have seen so many people comment on how much you share of your pain, HG, and how they have sympathy for that.
At times, I feel your pain…and then another part of me wonders—what you post—is it really how you feel, or are you mirroring all of your readers? Will we ever know? Even without knowing, I still come back here to try to learn more; to know what I am dealing with regarding my ex.
Hi H.G.
Wow, wonderful how you can put your feelings into such gripping words. I felt sad.
Could you answer a question? When you write, “I am fearless in all that I do, save that is this void, this nothing which is the architect of one total fear” Are you saying that the creature is one which has fear, thus you don’t want to feel this fear so you keep the fear confined? Or is the creature something else? If so, what?
Thanks again for sharing.
The Creature is the fear.
You mention you believe you were more genetically prone to this path, may I ask why you believe this?
My ongoing understanding of myself.
I understand
Thank you
HG
Does it make it easier to accept being genetically prone because it takes some of the responsibility from your behaviour being a “choice” or does it anger you that if that is true, that you are not the Chief Architect and it is not totally your control?
Interesting point. I have already accepted what I am, so learning more about the origins has no impact on my level of acceptance. As for my control, it is my control that maintains the empire.
You have accepted who you are?
I have been given a label for what I am, it causes me no issue. Of course I do not disclose that in my private life.
I hope it’s OK that I say, “Go HG!” A label should never define you as a person. It just informs you of your potential and areas of growth.
Now, I haven’t forgotten that you are a lethal bad boy. Just know I respect what you are doing here and hope for your growth.
How’s Kim these days? Does she hate you yet or is she still in a fog? Be nice tonight. I’ll send ya Scooby snacks!! 😋
You are not in control…
I’m so glad that you admit all that, HG, because it shows me that what I sensed about my ex and told him was right. About my vision of the inner waste land, the complete lack of basic trust also in a higher source and especially the fear. He only admitted the lack of basic trust and that he regretted that. Mention of inner waste land caused a brief flicker of panic, mention of his early childhood and mother caused defense.
” …hurled into this void is The Creature and he is scrabbling to escape it so that with dreadful suicidal intent he can wrap his sinewy arms about me, his yellowed and sharpened teeth plunging into my neck, his venom paralysing me as he gurgles and giggles, hauling be backwards off the precipice and into the void, the pair of us plummeting into oblivion…. ”
Your description of The Creature is captivating! It reminds me of Grendel, the creature from the epic poem Beowulf, who lived in a dark earth cave under a lake.
Reading that, was like someone was showing me my own self. I was choking. I had to take breaks before continuing. All other stuff you’ve written, was funny and amusing and it was like “yep I do his too”. Not this one…….. this one would equate to the smack in the face….I rather have the smack.
I had to put this one away last night and come back to it today. I think it’s been one of the most profound reads for me to understand how I got tangled up with my psycho and how his multiple personalities have developed. I have read numerous posts over the last several months about us being co-dependents. For my personality, that would be the farthest thing from describing me. Seeing this fabricated mirror image of me looking at myself makes far more sense of how we get snagged in the first place. Thank you HG
You are most welcome.
A very insightful article, HG. I really appreciate you let us know how you feel deep inside.
Is it possible that the fear of falling into that hole of nothingness with the feeling of never having mattered and never having existed comes from Matrinarc’s (emotional) neglect, especially in the first 3-4 years of your life?
Correct.
HG, I can subscribe that. Not my own experience, I was mothered very well the first years but from someone I know. It is a young girl, she was born by a mother who was a drug addictive. Her mother treated her as an infant very unstable. Sometimes she ignored the infant, sometimes she cuddled her, sometimes she did not feed her, sometimes she let her cry, sometimes she comforted the child…. They took away the infant and gave it to a loving adoptive mother. She did her best. And the grown up young woman (about 20 years now) clings to her adoptive mother and trusts her. The young woman has a very big problem. She cannot decide whether someone else wants to be good to her or wants to be bad. She cannot interpret the feelings and the acts of other people. She needs someone next to her to say to her: Look , he was friendly to you, look, he wanted to insult you. I talked a lot with her adoptive mother. She was desparate, because she wanted to help her child. She brought the young girl to therapists to help her. The therapists did not recognise the problem. The mother was so glad that I could see the problem too. I told the adoptive mother, what I thought about the first year after birth of that child and asked her, whether my thoughts could be right. She agreed. So we both know what caused this big issue. We do not know how to help the girl, when therapists however think there is no problem….
I am enthralled with your writing HG. I have never read anything so insightful and strangely addictive. I’m really enjoying ‘getting to know the narcissist’.
Thank you Clair, welcome on board.
Sounds awefull! But, If this is the case, I am glad I did what I did. Means that I at least tryed to lessen my moms pain. Therefore I can find Some peace. Thanks for sharing.
You are not empty HG, not at all. Please believe me! 😔
Why should he believe you when he’s told you what he is and you don’t believe him?
The most outstandingly accurate and thorough illustration of a narcissist’s relationship with fuel I’ve ever read.
Nothing has ever come close to explaining how this foundational phenomenon works.
It’s one thing to explain; quite another to also entertain.
Mesmerized and emotionally free for the first time in 20 years due to this site.
I’ve been separated for two (several separations predate)…
Legal protection order in place-
yet my heart and mind weren’t quite free.
This site has changed my life.
Thank you Mother of Dragons.
Ok, I get it – the void, the layers, the beast – all fascinating, all illuminating, and all beautifully written. But what I don’t get is, when you show someone themselves and then they fall in love with you, how can this serve to build up your ego when you know for a fact that what you are presenting them isn’t you? How can this make you feel good? I remember once when I was a kid, I took a painting class and I wasn’t much good. I did a watercolor of some fruit on a table one day. A few days after the class, my mother came to me utterly delighted after having come from the painting teacher. Her eyes lit up with pride, as she presented my fruit painting to my father with pure delight. She wanted to frame it. I quickly recognized that my painting had been heavily doctored up to look about fifty times better than it actually was. That wasn’t my work. The teacher had obviously intervened. I was deeply ashamed. My actual work hadn’t been good enough to show off and, even worse, the teacher had committed an act of treachery on behalf of me and now I felt implicated in the crime. I wanted nothing to do with that painting ever again. It made me feel sick. The painting was a lie and therefore my mother’s pride in me for it was a lie. There’s no way I’d have been able to allow that painting to make me feel good about myself. On the contrary, it made me feel awful about myself. When someone pours delight in your direction based on a false pretense like this, it’s equivalent to my mother’s delight at my fruit painting. Such delight makes me feel awful yet somehow this delight makes you feel amazing. Why?
I know this is the truth. I’m sorry that u and every other Narc is really a coward.
NoNarcs
How do you call anyone who has had trauma a coward? How do you call anyone with a personality disorder a coward. Perhaps you should rethink this statement.
It is easy to write this behind your computer. Perhaps you are angry.
I do not find HG or anyone with a disorder a coward. To live inside the mind of such is not being a coward. It is someone who faces life and to be willing to move through it every moment in torment is not cowardly.
I know this.
You might not like the behaviour but to understand it and deal with it accordingly is what would be best for you. This is the right action.
I do not feel sorry for HG, I am not defending only HG, but everyone who has expirenced trauma. Our behaviour, at times, is less desirable, but it is the pain in motion.
No I am not a NARC but I am a victim of trauma and I acted out most of my life and still do.
Some narcs have never had trauma – they were taught entitlement and zero boundaries. They were enmeshed by their parent but they never suffered trauma.
Well this would make them more of an asshole. IMHO
You could consider this a bit of psycological trauma. A false deception of self and importance, failing of the parent with teaching social skills and acceptance. In the real world, these types can get knocked on their ass.
But what do I know. I am just a layperson here on the blog trying to learn who I am.
But it is so much fun being an asshole!
The real world is run by our kind and made for our kind.
It is not me who has the brusises on my ass from being knocked down nor red-rimmed puffy eyes from sobbing and wailing.
BE are you just an asshole or a NARC? I thought of you as a greater so no bumps on you.
Hi AhOh,
I second your statement. Well put!
HG is actually quite brave to engage in the journey he has taken with writing this blog, sharing his inner working, facing his inner demons in therapy and with us. He is brace to listen to those who have suffered at the hands of abusers, including those like HG himself, and to go do so tact and calm and those 5 rules. I see him as showing much courage here.
I’m not condoning his confessed behaviors (in fact, quite the opposite, as a survivor myself) and I am accepting that he too experienced this abuse and is courageous in exploring a different way of thinking and being.
The mind and brain are fascinating.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/obesely-speaking/201403/your-mind-does-not-care-what-your-brain-thinks
Very much so!!! Have you read the book, The Body Keeps Score?
Indy No, I shall look for it!
I read it. Recommend it.
Ah Oh,
I am neither actually.
Again my comment was inspired by your assertion that those of us who never suffered trauma and are taught entitlement and no boundaries, like me, are even bigger assholes since the way we are is not the result of trauma.
Hi NoNarcs,
Maybe you have not read about what happened to HG yet. It takes a lot of courage to put up with other people’s outrageous false accusations and to agree to undergo a therapeutic treatment he has not chosen or asked for.
It also takes courage to be the only individual with a NPD worldwide, who has agreed to disclose such a lot of truthful, detailed information and knowledge about how he (and also other people with a NPD) perceive the world and others, think and behave. He is risking public exposure.
I am telling this because I have been falsely accused of being guilty of other family member’s illnesses and deaths and punished for it, even though I had gone No Contact with them several years before. It is unfair and hurtful, especially when others are judging me without wanting to hear my side of the story. Not only are they not interested in having all the facts but also they have threatened me to take legal action if I speak up. The whole situation is humiliating. Just in case you are wondering, I do not have a NPD.
Do you think that a narcissist is capable of exposing the wound to a partner? My N broke down after I said I couldn’t go on this way. He seemed genuinely hurt. Does that mean he really isn’t a N?
That was a ruse to gain fuel from you.
At some point, all of us have to face painful memories. They will find their way to the surface. You would be better advised to unearth them in a controlled manner, instead of hoping to outrun them for the rest of your life.
The creature is just an amalgam of pain and shame, it cannot obliterate you. You have made it powerful by ignoring it!! The only way to get rid of it is to face it.
Another vivid example of narcissistic hypocrisy. You fear the void will consume you. You are terrified of being deleted and erased. Yet you delete and erase from your life those that love you whom you deceived.
Indeed IL.
Another clear cut explanation. Thank you. Naturally I feel the effect the creature has on you upon reading this. You are very talented at describing this loathsome dull ache that lives in the darkest part of you. I like it that you brought him to light. If you take that creature out and expose him, he can be killed. Let the plastering or glossing over him stop. Drag him out and let’s kill him. He doesn’t belong in you. He is a squatter taking up room inside the Tudor Towers and living rent free whilst mucking up the place. Place a love bomb of yourself in his quarters and blow that effer sky high. Use leftover love spakle from us to patch up after. We got you. We want to see you rid of this creature. Tudor town is not big enough for the both of you. Kill him before he kills you. Do it with self love and the support from those who really do care about you. Yes that includes me, world’s away tertiary source #1 stranger but known unknown commenter. The one who sees you and cares anyway, despite your non existent feelings towards me. I may be nothing to you, but you are something to me. You are worth every heartbreak I had because you gave me knowledge and that is a priceless gift. So please kill him off. Please be the boy who survives and becomes the man that he was always meant to be. I so wish for you to become whole. Not hollow chocolate bunny, a Solid chocolate Rabbit, just trying to find his way. *Cue Lost Stars – Adam Levine* xxx 💙
Thank you for your impassioned observations ABB.
You, my one sided friend, are always most welcomed. ☆♡
And become a good man doing a great job. You have it in you, HG!!
“Sunshine and lollipops…”
HG this broke my heart to read, tears started to fall. Between this and the other…..
I will be back once I pull my thoughts together.
Get it together. HG is an arsehole.
You are allowed your opinion. I am not disillusioned as to who/what HG is.
If something breaks my heart tears form and fall, I don’t care who you are.
Its my choice to let one know.
It is interesting as to you telling me to “get it together” , reminds me of others that said those exact words when they did not understand.
I do hope if anyone who has been entangled with one of HGs kind comes to you, you will be a little more empathic with them.
Why do you think I’m here? For the popcorn?
I am here for the popcorn and to learn, like you. HG fascinates me and brings knowledge on his perspective, to which has helped me understand a situation I “saw” long ago.
You telling me to get it together with out understanding why my heart breaks, reminded me of a situation where one was thrown to the wolves and left to die(literally) everyone told her to get it together then turned their backs on her. She pulled it together and rebuilt her life alone. No therapist, no friends, and no family, at least the only one (family member) was so far away they could not help.
Maybe you understand my attitude towards your statement. No one should have to do this alone, yet many have to.
Sure. The narcissist abandoned his son who he has never met when I was six months pregnant. They don’t care about their own children. Their is nothing to live for these people. The devil awaits them.
I am sorry, I understand. No they don’t. I was married to a man who was there but not there. Some situations are better when they leave even thou they break your heart and cause an emotional crisis. You can create a more peaceful environment for your child now.
Am I understanding this correctly, you were involved with a married man?
No, I was involved with a narcissist. And so is his wife.
Let me rephrase
Did you know he was married at the beginning of your relationship with said narcissit?
Yes, but that doesn’t matter. Narcissists choose vulnerable people who have POTENTIAL VICTIM floating somewhere in their aura. So yes, I knew, yes, of course there was a triangulation story where he was a victim, and of course I said no – at first. But my vulnerabilty was that I believed I needed a white knight (codependent) and he played the part so well. He’s a gentleman, you know.
Narcissit or not you made a choice to be with a married man, you set yourself up for heartbreak.
Your angry at the wife? Why? She is choosing to stay and support Her husband, you don’t know her reasons why. Maybe she is brainwashed or maybe there is another reason why she stays, yet you have no grounds to be angry at her for staying and supporting him, unless she is attacking your son then that is a very different.
There is only one innocent person in all of this Your Son. He didn’t chose to be born into this situation, yet he was and now will be subjected to whatever chaos that comes.
So yes your choice did matter, and now they will effect your child.
I am sorry and I do understand what you are going through, emotions will override logic, lies we tell ourselves to make things comfortable are the most deceiving and cause the most pain to ourselves.
You’re revictimising the victim. There are no wives of narcissists, they are only entrenched victims with pieces of fraudulent paper. Every person a narcissist targets is vulnerable and the narcissist knows it. Marriage has nothing to do with it as a narcissist targets his victims well. Don’t be high and mighty because you married one – you meant nothing to your husband, just like everyone he knows in life does. Also, there was someone the narcissist left for the wife. You took the place of someone else he was abusing – but maybe because they weren’t married that’s okay? Don’t kid yourself – you hurt someone before you and your also played in their triangulation games for many years, hurting many innocent people.
A wife has no justification for staying with a person who profiles, targets and abuses other women. All she’s done is set the bar as low as the mud with her zero self-respect and don’t try and argue that. The game is – how low will you go?
It seems you haven’t been reading HG’s posts about their manipulations. They look for hurt people, the look for vulnerable people – you don’t know other parts of my story but I was visually vulnerable – it is something you could see. And yes, my son didn’t ask for any of this – but you go blame that on the narcissist who doesn’t love his own flesh and blood – like the other three children he abuses. It’s certainly not my fault in any way shape or form and at least I’ve got the emotional intelligence and strength to leave an abusive situation that would include children. She deserves no kudos and no respect. She knows he’s a narcissist because I told her as I got out of that situation. She enables him to abandon his son by believing whatever lies he’s told her. She’s a nitwit who cares about her image (and reflecting his image back to him). She’s just a puppet.
He is the abuser, and don’t you ever forget it.
Your first warning HE WAS MARRIED
You should have ran then. You chose to become involved with him at that moment.
My point is/was you had a choice and you ignore the warning. You would have saved yourself a lot of heartbreak and a mindfuck if you hadn’t. There are warning signs that are subtle, that isn’t one of them.
I am not uncaring in the situation, yes they are very manipulative and convincing. What they do is wrong on many levels. Please refreash my memory where did I state what they did was right
Did you not state you gave him an ultimatum leave to be with you, yet also stated you didn’t want to be the reason for a family to split up?
You do not know my story, FYI I was forced into a marriage with a viable threat if I should ever decide to leave.
You don’t understand – I didn’t choose. As he always told me ‘we had no choice.’ No, I had no choice because, again, as he told me, ‘you preyed on my vulnerabilities.’ All projections. They know what they’re doing and they know exactly what their victims need to hear. THEY PREY ON THE VULNERABLE, NOT THE STRONG. Stop revictimising the victim.
It took me a long time to find my anger about being targeted, but my anger is about my son. It doesn’t matter what the story is in any case, children should be loved by both parents and I didn’t know that this person was incapable of love, full stop. Don’t confuse the issue. His wife is an enabler, just like you were.
And nobody asked for your judgement. You were fishing very early so you could stand in judgement and I should have listened to my intuition. Fuck off and go pity yourself since you win the ‘I had no choice but you did’ award. You have nothing to offer this conversation but self-righteousness, just like his wife. Conversation over.
I am very blunt at times, not judgmental. You had all the power in your hands from the start. You handed it to him the moment you ignored the fact he had a wife. You opened the door for his lies to come in and wrap around you. Then you lied to yourself by saying you had no choice. Blame shifting it all on to him, so no responsibility can be held in your hands. Then you projected your anger onto me and all other wives that have stayed in marriages, calling us enablers and having no integrity. Have you heard of Stockholm syndrome, fear, and of course brainwashed into believing they deserve nothing more.
Fishing yes in a sense I was, I wonder many things about you due to your response to an earlier comment of mine. Anger can be good, I hope for you that you overcome it and master your own emotions.
And as an addition you need to understand – I was involved with a narcissist, not a married man. What you’re saying is akin to ‘you were wearing a short skirt and you should know that men rape women who wear short skirts – you deserved to be raped.’
A narcissist is nothing but a rapist and a rapist who targets vulnerable people (including his wife who know abuses by proxy).
He was engaged to be married to another woman when he met his current wife 19 years ago – no doubt she thought (like me) that she’d scored a catch, no doubt she was triangulated beyond belief and what did he say about his ex-fiance? “She didn’t appreciate me so I dumped her by phone and I never spoke to her again.” There’s that horrible non-closure that he gave his ex-fiance who ignored all HER red flags no doubt, the same non-closure that he wanted to give his wife with me but I could not be embedded. Is she lucky that she didn’t have to go through the pain because I figured him out?
I am proud that I never sank to the lows of ‘stealing’ him from her and her kids, that I kept my integrity – where she didn’t care about stealing him from his ex-fiance. The narcissist’s life is a never-ending circle of abuse – only the names and faces change.
I’m very lucky that I got out of that relationship, but to have a woman who stole him off someone he was obviously (to us) abusing (he always told he his wife didn’t appreciate him and when I was getting rid of him he threw the same line at me) and have his wife tell me that ‘that’s what you get from getting involved with a married man’ shows how stupidly ignorant she is. That man – for 15 months, told me he was her victim, she was vindictive and nasty, he said nothing but horrible things about her that I never got involved with and did not allow myself to be triangulated with, didn’t wear his ring, and told me they were in a marriage of convenience and that they were only together for the kids – and that she was having her own affair. And even then, I STILL wouldn’t allow him to be with me unless he got his own place. I didn’t want the stink all over me.
Despite thinking this guy was the love of my life (you forget that all their targets feel the same way you did) because they are masters of mirroring and can target vulnerabilities very smoothly, that we can slip into things that are not good for us to objectify the narc so we can feel fantastic. Through the narc I learnt how strong I am and to see people like his wife allowing his abuse of herself, her children, me and my child is disgusting, pathetic and reeks of no integrity. Yes, these women may be married, but they have ZERO integrity. Don’t ever forget that women married to narcs gave that integrity up a long time ago.
Very interesting–because there is a dimension to this that is very much like a virus leading to an autoimmune disorder. The difficult part of the matter has to do with when the narcissist presses the delete button, during the devaluation. Afterwards, the victim also has to go through a process of deleting the narcissist, but it can be difficult to differentiate between one’s own self and the narcissist. The danger is that one deletes oneself, rather than deleting the narcissist.
My narc always talks about have layers to him would this be what he means?
It might.