The Prime Aims
I have three Prime Aims.
All of our kind has three Prime Aims.
Our dark and menacing behaviours (even when dressed up as the illusory golden period) are focused on the attainment of these three Prime Aims. They are all that matter. Everything else is dust. We are driven to secure these Prime Aims. They are hard-wired into us, they are sub-conscious requirements in most of our kind and amongst the Greater of our brethren we are aware of the necessity of attaining these three things to ensure that not only do we survive but we also thrive. Everything we do, say and concern ourselves with revolves around achieving these three aims. Nothing else matters.
Do we love you? No. We do not know what that truly is but we will use love or secure our Prime Aims. We will desecrate it through our twisted facsimile of what we understand love to be and use it secure our aims.
Do we want to do good for the disadvantaged around us? No. Yet, if such behaviour will ultimately benefit us through the establishment of a facade which can then be used to further our quest for these Prime Aims then we will become a trustee of that charity or organise a fund raiser for the Orphanage For Unwanted Monobrowed Children.
Do we want to be friends with you because we find your collection of unopened Star Wars figures fascinating. No. We do so because knowing someone with the best collection on the East Coast means that it works in favour of us in terms of attaining the Prime Aims.
Nothing we do is about you. It is all about securing our aims. Admittedly, there will be occasions where we are in alignment and our march with our dark troops by our side to the attainment of the Prime Aims means that you and others benefit. That is pure serendipity and we do not care whether the outcome is good or bad for you, so long as we achieve what we need.
The sooner you grasp and understand that we are focused on securing these Prime Aims and nothing else matters to us, the faster you will be able to formulate your own way to avoid being caught up in their attainment. The Prime Aims and their attainment is the only goal we are interested in and everything else is swept up in the need to achieve them. Children. Job. Home. Wife. Father. Daughter. Friend. Interests. Socialising. Conversations. Money. Status. Manipulation. Connections. Infidelity. Misery. Cruelty. Seduction. Possessions. These and so much more are mere conduits, enablers, bridges to the securing of the Prime Aims.
Never underestimate or fail to recognise the single-mindedness by which our machine like efficiency closes on this goal. You are there to ensure we achieve it. Our faceless Lieutenants and lurking Coterie are there to ensure we achieve it. The secondary and tertiary sources, the facade, the crows, the butterflies, the seduction, the devaluation and the disengagement. The hoovers, oft and repeated or seemingly absent, yet appearing years later are all part of the inextricably linked matrix to achieve the Prime Aims.
So, what are they?
Those of you who have read much of my work will already know what they are, but it is necessary to identify and underline them.
- Fuel
The chief Prime Aim. The most important one and the overriding objective of our engagements with everybody that we come into contact with. Fuel is the emotional response provided by you ad everybody else, caused by us. It may be indirect, for instance someone smiling at us as we walk by, it may be direct because we have provoked you into crying by calling you names.
Fuel is both positive and negative. It flows from all appliances. It varies in potency dependent on the Fuel Index (see the book Fuel for an expansive explanation of this central factor of what drives our kind) and in terms of its quantity and frequency. Fuel powers us. It quells the anguish and the anxiety, it settles us, it edifies us, it makes us powerful and it causes us to feel impregnable, omnipotent and god-like.
It is our drug. We want it and we need it and it must be provided each and every day and we take it from those that we have established in our fuel network. From lover to lollipop lady, everybody and I mean everybody we interactive with is a fuel appliance. The words you use, the tone attached to them, the inflection in your voice, the gestures you make, the things you do, the expression on your face, the sounds you make – all of these provide us with fuel and it has to be caused by us.
If you are crying over the death of your mother, that is not fuel for us. It is fuel for your mother (albeit she didn’t need it when alive and certainly has no use for it now she is cold in the ground). Those tears are wasted and this infuriates us. Thus we will say something hurtful about your pathetic weeping so that you then cry because of what we have said. Your emotional response then is down to us and we gain fuel.
Fuel is the single most important thing to us. No fuel and we weaken and ultimately enter a Fuel Crisis.
2. Character Traits
We have built a construct. This construct is like a frame and through the gathering of fuel we are able to then power its maintenance and further development. This construct imprisons The Creature. This construct allows us to show the world what we want to see and thus gain more fuel and the cycle repeats.
Everyone we interact with has the potential to furnish us with character traits which we lift and apply to the construct to make it better, stronger, more attractive and more secure. Each piece of fuel is the paste which enables us to place the shards, segments, patches, pieces and elements of character traits onto the construct and keep them there.
If you wish to understand this in greater detail, read my book Fury.
Your interest in insects, a friend’s sporting achievements, a child’s academic prowess, information from a tertiary source about the best restaurant in Barcelona’s gothic quarter, the humorous anecdotes told by a speaker at an awards dinner, the tales told by a grandparent, the intelligence gathered by a colleague and so on, all of those things become character traits which we will take for ourselves and pass of as our own. We want them and need them from those we interact with. Some have nothing to provide and thus they are less important appliances, but others have many and thus your coruscating, dazzling traits when you are a primary source to us become fundamental as part of the Prime Aims.
3. Residual Benefits
Are you well-off? Have a good house? A car? Access to a particular club? Tickets for sought after games? A famous friend? Excellent carer? Brilliant cook? Social magnet? DIY capable? Good income? Respected community member?
We are entitled and we do not recognise boundaries. Your resources are our resources and the more of those that exist and in different forms, the greater the advantage you possess because of these residual benefits.
These vary dependent on the nature of the narcissist who has ensnared you. We may be financially superior and have a large house, but you are well-thought of by people and have an extensive social circle, political connections and the like, thus we want them.
We may have a physical health problem and therefore the fact that you are a nurse practitioner and exceptionally caring results in those residual benefits becoming the foremost ones.
We may have no job and a rampant cocaine habit, so your well-appointed residence and burgeoning bank account are appealing residual benefits to us.
The list of residual benefits is not exhaustive and they will vary from narcissist to narcissist, but they form a further essential part of this triumvirate.
Thus fuel, character traits and residual benefits are the Prime Aims. All appliances are expected to fulfil their obligation to provide us with each element of the Prime Aims, although it is naturally of greater importance concerning the primary source having such applicability.
Always keep in your mind the relevance of these Prime Aims because this will aid you understanding why certain things are said and done by our kind.
83 thoughts on “The Prime Aims”
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Dear HG, what is the creature?
I think the creature is us!! They molded or manipulated us into who they want us to be.
“If you are crying over the death of your mother, that is not fuel for us. It is fuel for your mother (albeit she didn’t need it when alive and certainly has no use for it now she is cold in the ground). Those tears are wasted and this infuriates us.”
THIS COMMENT GAVE ME SUCH AN A-HA moment about my ex narc! When he tried to make up an excuse about why he lied to me for weeks that his brother had tragically died (for sympathy) he said: “Well what really happened was my ex died and I didn’t want you to be so upset that I would be mourning over a woman who wasn’t you” Of course this was a lie too… but it made me realize how he DOESNT understand empathy!
Of course if MY ex died he would be jealous and angry annoyed if I was upset over his death. But he doesn’t get that I wouldn’t be if that happened to him because I have the empathy and emotionally maturity he did not.
Pandora Box:
Don’t know you, but you seem terribly wounded, mad, angry and lashing out at the wrong person.
I have personally gained insight from HG’s ‘words of wisdom.’ I haven’t paid him one single dime. He actually helped me personally with one small matter (well it was actually pretty big) and with all he has going on, he didn’t have to do it – but he did.
I think he charges $100US for a consultation. My own Trauma Counselor charges $150, doesn’t accept insurance and I see her weekly and unfortunately her knowledge goes only as far as what she has studied in books. She was a good start, but I knew not the one who would provide me with the answers/solutions I required to save myself.
I WAS a victim, as I wasn’t aware of what I had become entangled with as he was a smooth talker, a charmer and a really good liar who painted himself out to be someone who was abused by his alcoholic father and x-wives. I fell for it all as I could actually feel his pain and wanted to help heal him. Turns out, some of it was true, but for the most part not all, as I came to find out later on.
As soon as I started Trauma counseling (TC), mainly due to my upbringing by both parents, brother and sister all being narcs. It was a cruel childhood filled with massive hurt/pain (both physical and mental). I had compartmentalized it all away to protect myself, went no contact with the whole lot. I didn’t realize at the time, it was my own narc husband who had triggered all those bad memories. I was confused, depressed, diagnosed with PTSD and on the brink of having a nervous breakdown.
My TC diagnosed my husband as a narc, at first, I wanted to deny it—that couldn’t be true, but wanting to climb out of the pits of hell I started listening to videos and reading. I had to confirm for myself that’s what he was. I’m not a victim, I am a survivor and I was fighting for my own life.
Only until I came upon HG’s videos and then his website did I start to gain REAL knowledge and helpful tools to combat the situation. I mean if you want to know something inside and out, go straight to the source.
I personally thank HG for his information. I could care less what his motives are, all I know is he has helped me in my own situation. I was able to plan well and will soon meet my narc in court, as I have gained my power back and there will be a divorce.
Try a little bit harder to be accommodating in your statements against HG. He is providing an invaluable service. He’s not breaking anybody’s arm to buy his books and/or have consultations. Consider it a gift and treat it as such.
Good words, Super Empath.
This is by far the best site there is on narcissism and the disorder. While there are many hosted by those who have been the victims, I find they can sometimes offer misinformation because they’re not narcissists!
I found that my narcissist experience was in fact linked to the crap I endured from my narcissist father and I was unaware of how much of myself I was burying as result of my childhood.
That person comes off as a troll given the spelling and grammar errors. LOL
I’ve had my share of online presence and it always amazes me that the most aggressive, negative comments tend to come from those who don’t even bother to put enough thought into the presentation of their message, much less the message itself.
Clearly HG, that person’s opinion on you and your work is greatly in the minority.
Indeed Bibi and thank you.
HG how important are the residual benefits such as money and political connections comparing to fuel? In other words – are these benefits a good argument against discarding the primary source if the Narcissist has the money, good job and connections himself?
Fuel is the chief concern, but in certain situations the residual benefits become of greater importance with a particular person. Thus, they provide the main residual benefits and some fuel, other appliances provide more fuel but less or nothing by way of residual benefits. It is all part of how the fuel matrix fits together.
How does a narcissist behave during a fuel crisis? To me, it just looks like having a hard time with life post break up. So, what is the difference in a narcissist’s behavior during fuel crisis and dealing with a bad break up?
Excellent post. I was initially confused at money as fuel because several articles I’ve read have either stated or insinuated money was the one fuel that trumps all fuels. It was made to sound primary instead of residual.
I like this book, it is old but offers some insight into the ‘dance’, particularly surprising seeing as resarch was around a long time ago after all https://books.google.com.au/books?id=PbN3LEa2mb8C&lpg=PA79&ots=70BylwQ9-1&dq=narcissist%20infanticide&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q=narcissist%20infanticide&f=false
I am borderline and spent 5 years with a greater (?) narc. Thanks for the resource.
There are some important things to realise if you have been raised by narcissists and cannot understand your adult habits.
The catalysts for the wrong bonding are potentially:
You are born into nothing, and must grab at anything just to live. Just accepting this fact is quite difficult.
You give to the narcissist who doesn’t deserve it, to keep up the practise of your identity. Not because the narcissist is entitled to receive from you. If you have been (most likely) isolated, you give to them so as not to forget what you might normally do, and so as to stay sane. Much like lifting weights while in prison. THe compulsive giving / Stockholm syndrome is one of the hardest to shake because it can be associated with your idea of “good.” also because it created some peace in the war zone of home.
Idealising the narcissist and devaluing empaths is a brainwashing concept enforced through words, hitting verbally or physically for seeing otherwise, as well as withdrawing basic needs.
Explaining yourself and persecution complex – so much had to be hidden from the vulture that you do this to get by, perhaps also to distract yourself from how darn awful reality was. You might also give too much information as an insurance policy as demanded by N fucker.
Complex PTSD where noises, people in y our personal space, any stimuli is dangerous. Because all stimuli was dangerous at home.
Most of all (for me) rage. If I was to have a natural reaction at the age I saw what was going on, I’d have bashed my parents to deal with a steel bar to ethically clean up society. To deal with that overwhelming rage so young, many of us convert it to love and thus are completely intoxicated by Stockholm S. You don’t love the bastard at all, you truly just want to kill him, but you’re calming the boiling rage with false love.
That’s right, critique the spell/grammar checker, not the message. Thank you for the fuel. I expected no less from you. You obviously have never had the mutually odious job of editing one of your masterpieces. Don’t threaten me with a good time. You disgust me.
You’re really quite the grandious, stupid twat. People lavish you with praise and gratitude for your “insight” but it’s so unwarranted and indeserved. You crank out “books” like you have take a shit or an unimpressive orgasm. Repetition, ad nauseum, ad nauseum etc etc. When you have a new insight let the world know? My heart aches for the stupid groopies you use to pay your bills like the extortionist prostitute you are. Why not you be a real man a use your real voice? Your lisp is nothing to be asahamed of. Rhetorical question really. Ive pegged you for ridiculously enbred, “posh” uninspired cunt. Zero literary prowess, in spite of being able to visualizing you frantically fapping to the spewing of your less than penny dreadful quality prose unfortunately. You DO love the sound if your own pedestrian “thoughts” obviously. At least you try to get your self off, unable to do the same for anyone else. Brevity is the wit of soul, lest you ever knew. In closing, Get fucked, cunt and earn a real living.
Grandiose.
Undeserved.
“Have taken”.
Groupies.
“Extortionist prostitute” – never heard of a prostitute who uses violence with their johns to secure payment.
“don’t” rather than “not”
Ashamed
Inbred.
“to visualise”
Brevity is the soul of wit.
Thanks for the fuel, inarticulate as it is, although I am not surprised.
Next time I am in Tucson I will be paying you a visit.
Is there a history to his/her unbridled comment? Wow. I guess I’ve had much worse hurled at me by the man I’ve loved most, but still, seeing such venom is bizarre. Hoping neither one of us ever get used to it.
Also, I think you’re a goddamn saint. Thank you for so much.
No history whatsoever.
I do not know the writer of the post personally but I know who it is and such profanity laden and inarticulate ramblings are her calling card. It is jealousy.
Thank you for your kind compliment.
That might have been my husband
Or do you think thiis is out of the question HG, do you think this is comorbidity?
Interesting thing you say about seeing your dad objectively as a separate person, AVS.
My (70 year old) dad always says that the reason he is the way he is – a violent screaming foul mouthed drunk (who kept us awake throughout the night from his violent wars with my mum), a detached and domineering and abusive person – is because he was orphaned at a very early age (after he was born) and never grew up with a dad, and this and that, and he had had to work hard to make it through life, and we kids just don’t know how hard he had to work to survive).
Mind you, his mum just died in 2012 at a ripe age of almost 100years.
He was therefore not a full orphan, his mum was there throughout his life and from family history, it is a fact that he was brought up by his paternal uncles and had a stepfather too. (The stepfather died when he was in his teens, probably). He spent a lot of time with the extended family, including his male cousins with whom he was very close to until recently when they and a serious breakout. lol. He never had to sleep hungry for he was brought up in the countryside and there was a lot of food from farms, which everyone worked in as is the norm.
Looking back, I realise he used these explanations and still uses them to justify his poor treatment of us when we were still very young, to obtain sympathy and acceptance from his children, making them accept the childhood abuse. Making them not realise that they were brought up in an abusive home…that what they had was not a normal home, and that it didn’t have to be that way.
He also does this to make war with my Narc mom – they have a parental alienation thing going on, with my dad keeping his sons closer than normal, and not caring a thing about his girls. And my mum taking advantage of the situation and working hard to alienate the girls from their father.
Well, I guess it will take me a lifetime to understand to understand exactly what on earth I went through as a child and what exactly is going on in my family.
But one thing this site has helped me is to recognise the love bombing, the abuse and the hoovering when it’s happening. I now realise my mum could be a Greater – I was her slave (and appendage), her doormat while growing up. I thought my dad was the only abusive person in the family but I know realise my mum is very covert, and her abusive behaviour is probably much more damaging than my overt dad.
Now that I am breaking off, her hoovering is most similar to a Greater’s and I have to brace myself for the onslaught…
Thanks. This is waking me up a bit to his weaknesses and our strengths! They are cowardice defined
I also found a letter my narcissistic mother wrote my narcissistic father when they were young.
She was telling him she felt attached and missed him more during that time of the month.
When she found me reading it she was fucking ropable and wouldn’t speak to me. I couldn’t understand the rejection of vulnerability because she had milked my secrets for all I was worth and then some.
My point is I seem to have lifted this narc veil at times to see something they shut out. But, the thing is, it is THERE.
This for me is the real problem in these relationships. The empath may not always be interacting with NOBODY as is commonly stated but somebody who may experience fleeting and temporary feeling.
Really interesting perspective and discourse between you and HG. When you finally reach a place where you feel more healed than hurt after narc abuse, the whole topic and analysis and life experiences thereafter become truly fascinating — thank you both for expanding my knowledge and understanding through new and re-affirmed perspectives and explanations. Now I have to go find the Malice article as I always admire and relate to Clarece’s (sp) insights too!
Awww, thank you!
Well Monsieur ash-jee is leaving some of my comments out, which would indicate rather than sharing information for information’s sake, the forum is being used as a platform for abuse.
I will say, what I learned from narcissists in my life is that our common mistake as empaths is thinking the ‘right thing’ to do with people is to bond with them.
I suppose, this is the healthier tribe mentality. A tribe that stays together survives.
THe nature of the fuck ups of our race is such that aiming to bond is dangerous and unrealistic with many people.
We need to accept this.
A narcissist has had to survive without love and it absolutely had to be that way.
I am coming to see my Dad as not just my father who held my hand and cuddled me, and then hit me and abandoned me later, but someone on his own pathway that happens to not be able to connect to mine. This results in a huge wound but I have come to see him as a separate person. Maybe even not even the kind of man I would want to be friends with if I was his age. I think it makes it a lot easier to get by, accepting reality and maybe even saying “if (insert name) was capable, they would have loved me” and be a bit bigger about it. It’s the “what ifs” the narcissist will keep using to stick around but you needn’t follow.
Our aims towards all others should be to let them be as themselves on their own pathway, at their own pace, and to protect ourselves without guilt and make our own lives.
All I remember is when I was growing up and watching all of the narcissists around me, as a little girl I thought two things: “I don’t think they had anyone to talk to when they were small,” and “I think they have solved their problems through lying”. Fantasy is their way of coping with neglect. I also realised they hadn’t grasped wrong and right with the intensity I had. My mother would do things I would think, “I don’t think her mummy told her no!” and while I was afraid, when you’re a kid you are more an equal to the narcissist so you don’t think it’s that bad. It’s solving adult problems that is beyond them and thus all these abuses etc. I believe they should make their lives as comfortable as possible and empaths should accept it’s possible to enjoy their company but also it is not a good long term path.
You still paint us all as victims. I still don’t like this word. You are missing something and you need to connect, somebody else enjoyed your company. It might have had a bad ending, but I see nice things in the exchange. In my abusive relationships I haven’t felt abused at all times.
The narcissist may tend to deny enjoying something with me for fear of being non-dominant.
Well now you are changing the debate. It was about the use of co-dependent and now you are moving it to victims. Yes, I regard everybody as a victim who we interact with, because you are a victim of our manipulation. A definition of victim is ‘one who is tricked or duped’. Is that not entirely apt? We do trick and dupe people because of the illusion we create, the fabrications and the manipulations.
Who is the ‘bad’ person in such an interaction? The person who is duped or the one who did the duping? It is the one who did the duping. Victim is an accurate word.
I know why people do not like the word, it is because it is regarded as inferring weakness or blame. Some people want to avoid the use of the word victim to enable them to avoid the perceived stigma associated with it. This is why they use survivor instead. That is their choice.
I use the word victim as I have explained above. I do not paint you as victims. You are victims.
I did not change the debate. The conversation relates to accuracy.
My point is, the exchange between narcissist and non-narcissist is complicated because the narcissist may have fleeting, shallow or confusing experiences that (from my scientific understanding) are occuring but the brain is disintegrated. This means that the experience may cause an emotion that is not processed. However there is still some kind of firing of neurons that the empath can recognise as the same as his/her own.
This is the main source of the problem. The empathic person can recognise them and often the narcissist can’t.
I believe you do a fair bit of manufacturing, but many times n my observations the narcissist is experiencing something random he can’t put his finger on that later considers to be experienced by someone else and can’t remember it. Or, dismisses any vulnerability as dangerous.
I will given an example. I danced in a group of people involving three narcissistic girls. One of them had slept with a guy who didn’t see her again. I’d spent a length time with this people and was nonjudgmental. She said to me after many long hours of silence. “I’m so ashamed but I miss him.” I said, “why would you be ashamed?” and for her I believe the sadness was a real trigger to the psychosis or drowning you mention.
The empath does remember when they see a narcissist react it because it’s important in bonding. The trouble is the narcissist can’t remember or doesn’t integrate it to other parts of his brain.
So then you have conflict. and, the black and white image “predator-victim.”
It is indeed a predator relationship however my belief is that it is not as straightforward as that.
We are a victim until we say “no more” .. when we begin to heal we become a survivor. There is a difference and the change in thinking can be felt.
africanvioletsite
i really like what you wrote.
Thinking myself as a victim, for example, it makes me paranoid with exaggerated ” fears and dooms” and paralizes my forthcoming strenght which is manifested in my deep emphatic understanding and indiscriminated acceptance of narcs .. which as you actually claim: can help the narcs..
its a deep and long subject.
perhaps many become ” victims”???Most might be victims of non- understanding, therefore that creates more uneccessary conflicts?
i like this topic , infact this
emphat/narcissist interaction should be more holistic..
Angelic perhaps I wanted to find some love in a hopeless place. I find this topic so interesting, mainly the outcomes of such severe abusers on many aspects of life.
I just remember playing dumb when my parents wanted to rip out my soul but I never saw them as truly hating me. I knew where it came from even at 3. I remember sitting in that chair after a great day and the barbs came out of nowhere. I knew my happiness enraged them because it was a dangling sensation out of their reach. I knew fighting made it worse. I knew I had to play good girl to appease the devils. My brother fought and fought and they increased dials on the humiliation. I feel guilty now about not saving him.
I knew they were unable to love me in the traditional sense however we could find cooperation, a sense of humour and it all got better the more aware they were of their triggers.
That is the key but it all blew up when I left the country and was subjected to carefully planned dismantling.
The disorder has affected me in every aspect of life, it has been an ever-present shadow infesting my personality although I do believe that what truly saved me when I was tiny was seeing they didn’t mean it and it reduced my damage.
My parents almost got excited to find I loved them without them acting. Then they became demanding of me. Then disappointed as if they imagined becoming Jesus or some other supernatural high. Then angrily threw away the appliance again.
I’m not sure about overcoming PTSD. Living in a place where good feelings are controlled and rationed, rules change at whim and nobody mans the ship for sure means you have to change your personality every day to stop the threat and you don’t know which way you have to go.
What helped me in the house was letting them be and isolating myself to do sport or work on art, learning not to look for what wasn’t there.
I feel like starting another website, “empathic observations of narcissists.”
I also noticed, the meddling in gender roles the narcissist experiences tended to come from inconsistency from either male or female figures. For instance, you will often see narcissistic women with far too much testosterone who have had to become part-male from either domination or neglect from their father.
They are often into some kind of dominating job title or martial arts in which they create the environment “nobody can touch me.”
It may or may not be of help HG to know your mother may have shared a common female narc experience of learning that males are always superior. The father instils this and dominates the female, sometimes babying her as well or imposing some kind of societal standard (creating a cerebral.
If your mother was speaking to you with acidity, she may be translated as saying “I was dominated by males who are superior and I resent it”, and “there is a particular image of society I cannot live up to and I’m pissed off about that.”
She may treat you as a piece of shit to deal with that dominance trauma, as well as a little king (following the story males are superior). We cling to what gets us resources to survive and this will become fact for you.
In my case it was over-achieving object of desire and narcissistic boyfriends validate that story for me. Often the narc boy is part female because that mother, despite the rejection, had a part that was safe to cling to. “Abusive mummy’s boy” is the story they are grappling with.
When narcissists speak, it needs to be translated. If they create terror, they are saying, “I was terrified.” If they dominate, they are saying “I was dominated.” If they are critical, they are saying “I was never good enough.”
What are you trying to say in your relationships HG? You seem to say “I will not be dominated, I will not be rejected, and I will create my own safety. If you threaten that, you’re out.” I notice you all need this curtain pulled over your intentions as a delusion you’re controlling and outsmarting life, whch of course cnnot be done because of chance, but I do admire your initiative and assertiveness and action.
One of my earliest memories of love, security and being validated was lying in my cot and not being sure who to call out to. I called all of my family members and there they were, staring down at me delighted. I knew then there would always be somebody there.
The narcissist doesn’t have this memory or foundation but tries to recreate the presence of others in safe ways by “collecting toys”.
If you have been electrocuted when trying to connect to love, you won’t do it, but hold it at arm’s length. The narcissst is trying to create the environment with the presence of others and living in roles that earn flows of approval. They tend to design a world that makes them feel safe. This often offensive to people chosen to be in that world, but it is the narciissist’s way of saying “I don’t feel safe on my own.” When they meet me they are delighted of course because I’m empathic, but they start fussing over me and treating me like I’m a “Miss Honey” character from the Roald Dahl story “Matilda”. This is because they are missing from childhood that safe and kind character.
A lot of them are writers and journalists like me because it’s a safe and distant way of maintaining authority and supply without getting close to others.
My mistake through life was thinking narcissism was a choice rather than atrophy of neural connections, and not recognising it was fixed, concrete, and should not be something to get close to. I did have quite a biit of success in relationships by relating to them as any disability – focusing on CAN rather than CAN’T as well as being consistent in my behaviour and annoucing my diary for the week and all of my intentions towards them.
If there IS room for change and growth, the narcissist would have to be willing to feel a softeness for the parent that requires seeing their parent objectively. A child internalises rather than seeng the parent acting out their past.
Africanvioletsite – at first glance you have made some strange and baseless comments. I need to make time to reply to all. Here are a couple of examples:
“For instance, you will often see narcissistic women with far too much testosterone who have had to become part-male from either domination or neglect from their father.”
What uber leftist carp is that?? Narcissistic women have become part-male? You want to be taken seriously then substantiate your comment with serious studies. Gender studies are not acceptable.
Another
“The narcissist doesn’t have this memory or foundation but tries to recreate the presence of others in safe ways by “collecting toys”.”
How do you know that they don’t have childhood memories? Show us a study on narcissists’ memories.
Another
“Often the narc boy is part female because that mother, despite the rejection, had a part that was safe to cling to. “Abusive mummy’s boy” is the story they are grappling with.”
What does that mean? Where do you get your facts from?
Sniglet
Ikr? The only part I could lend any credence to was the testosterone. I HAVE been told that I have bigger balls than a lot of men. No scientific study to back it up though-just confirmation by other men like me lol.
Beautiful! I wish I had been as wise as you were when I was a child. It has taken me decades to arrive where you seem to be. I wish you would write that website. I’d be your first reader. Thank you.
I left a reply for Africanvioletsite’s post of March 20th 2:04 pm but I don’t see it. Could it be somewhere else? It began “Beautiful!”
Hi AVS I left you a comment but it is posted after Sniglet and NarcAngel. Don’t know why….
What was common in all cases was a set of parents who ignored them or placed unnecessary pressure based on the ideal image from the baby boomer generation that everyone seemed to aim for. Society had gone from complete lack to entitled, boundary-less freedom (and confusion).
In my relationships with these people, they saw me as the first to show them unconditional approval. They are locked in a cycle of being shut down, then getting excited about being recognised and internally aiming for their parents’ approval. But they know it’s never coming so they hit you before any real bond can develop, thereby protecting themselves from their first rejection.
Instead of their character being guided by their parents, they turn to society and read and watch a lot as it is a safe and distant guide on who to be.
Out of all this what is most intriguing is the importance of parental treatment toward babies and profound impact of a few small decisions.
The thing that may have spared me was that my mother was all facade but she had a special “shift” whereby she would put it all aside with me in private as I wouldn’t judge her, and not wear the mask so to speak. I didn’t see any creature, I could see it was all in her head. But she believed it and her judgment was dominated by that idea 24/7.
I came to understand their abuse as not abuse but as a method of connecting when they otherwise didn’t know how, and an effort to handle their inner confusion.
HG, has it surprised you to learn of the number of narcissists there actually are out there?? Were you aware before you started your blogs and writing your books just how wide spread this problem is??
Personally I am amazed at how this narcissism thing has a community base that is spreading like wild fire. Is it just me?
Thanks heaps.
No Lisa, not at all. I realised it was widespread when I began to recognise my kind. It is far more extensive than people realise.
Thank you HG for the quick response. ‘Extensive’ is the perfect word for it. I guess its only now (lately) that we have been able to put it all together. My mum is narcissistic (havent studied her per se’), but she deffinately has some traits. I think not being aware of it growing up was a bonus for me, although now I avoid her at many costs.
TY. Chat again soon HG. Always interesting…..
Sorry to comment again, but I have to raise this as it’s lifted the veil off. At school I would estimate that 100% of my teachers were narcissists and at least 90% of my grade.
I thought it was ‘human nature’ and made a lot of effort to understand them because I figured I must have a special gift or a problem.
They are operating on broken legs without the ability to care that they are doing so, and unable to understand us. So the best we got to was independent coexistence with a lot of effort to translate.
I may be living in a chance cluster, but this may also be indicative of numbers.
You can pretty much guarantee most politicians, CEOS, school principals and managers of most kinds would be disordered.
Yes I see your point AFS. No doubt they were around while I was growing up also. I just never noticed as such. My upbringing was….agressive shall we say. At the time I just put it down to ‘its what people do’ type thing.
Its the people like The Greaters that concern me. I can only judge by my own adult experience with them (my ex in particular). How many of these people are there?? Yes our Politicians are narcissistic, the same goes for Teachers etc., but are they ALL these nasty, caniving sons of bitches that the narcs we are learning about are?? They cant all be on that same scale, surely??
Yes I agree with you, it would not be all teachers everywhere but in my school even the narcissists who were my friends observed and criticised lack of empathy, the strange disordered traits in all teachers.
It could be the boomer generation suffered a lot of abuse and crippling insecurity from harsh education systems themselves, cane etc.
I’d just like to include my perspective for “victims” and so-called “co-dependents” in the cases of dealing with narcissists.
I do not agree with the word co-dependent. At all. Maybe it was introduced to describe a business-like “need meets needs deal.” But I find the term degrading and shameful, and implies weakness on behalf of the empathic participant in the relationship. I would use the term “independent co-existence with a narcissist”. The reason is that you simply could not survive around a narcissist if you were dependent. YOU are in fact leading someone blind. You need to have independence to be able to do this, and to survive without love.
The second point is that I do not find it a bad thing to learn to live with narcissists. It has benefitted me in forming a path through difficult times by relying on my own resources and becoming very strong in what I do. If it had not been for unbearable abuse from those who were triggered, I would be fine, but when they were not carrying on, I got quite far. Nobody had values or leadership and so I became strong in those areas. Nobody was an unbiased observer and I became strong in those areas. Narcissism is a reality in most workplaces. To have the ability to make things work despite narcissism is a huge credit. it is not a dependency. I therefore do not support the term codependent.
My point is that just because something bad happened to you, does not mean you are defective or did something bad. You cared about someone. You didn’t know they were ill, and maybe when you still found out you realised you enjoyed their traits anyway. It’s imperfect, unfair and imbalanced. But there is no need to shame the empathic person to prevent it happening again. It just is exactly that – an experience involving loving someone.
Not all empathic participants in a relationship with our kind are described as co-dependent however. This is why I refer to empaths, super empaths and co-dependents. The co-dependent is indeed that and the term is used to describe the nature of the relationship, it is not a label used purely to shame.
Yes I understand you. It is commonly used in literature on narcissists and each time I read or watch something it is like a shaming of “how could you be so masochistic?”
When I see it, I’m thinking “you had no idea how much fun I had!!!”
Do you reply HG because you care, or you sensed a criticism to defend in my comments and you want to be right? :p
I reply not because I care nor because I sensed a criticism but rather to correct you.
Yes but because you edit reality to win, it is not a real correction. I won’t get through to you now though, because again you will want to win
No, I was pointing out that my use of co-dependent is different from the use you were suggesting it is. Your assertion was incorrect. I do not label all interactions with our kind as co-dependent nor do I use the label of co-dependent to shame. I was correcting you by explaining how I use it. There was no edit of reality in my response.
gahhh you are every politician I’ve interviewed. referred to N literature not you personally but you do portray your empathic contacts in a negative light, which I suppose suits you.
My observations come from watchng narcisssts when they don’t know I am there. Then pointing things that they don’t want me to know out, which they deny and then shut me out.
I accept I portray those that I engage with who are of an empathic nature in a negative light with some things. I also note they have traits and characteristics which I do not have, many of which are regarded as good traits to have. I explain why I do not need those traits and how for me they work against what I have to achieve and therefore I am better off without them. I also explain how those traits can also be exploited by my kind and thus those traits are double-edged – good in some cases, but a weakness in others when dealing with our kind and I point this out so you understand how we regard them and so you can address that issue as you see fit.
are you not publishing my responses because you don’t agree, or what?
I understand from all dealings anyway, that even if there is a fleeting emotional connection it is not worth thinking about because it would be impossible to retrieve.
No it is because I haven’t had time to read them.
Studies show you are lying. And no, I’m not humiliated. Sorry.
Studies? Nonsense. No I am not. I know how many messages and comments I receive, you do not.
You sound a lot more understanding and forgiving than I am AVS. I dislike the word co-dependant also, and have never considered myself one. Ever!! However…after reading HG’s work I do get a more clear picture of what the list of Empaths are, and what they mean. I do believe I am a Super Empath as he describes, and, in all honesty am quite happy to have that ‘label’ put on me, in the name of understanding the hows and why’s of my dilemma with the narcs of this world. At no point in my life, have I enjoyed, let alone coped easily with, narcissistic people that have been out to take advantage of me. Once I realize what is going on I either run, or if its bad enough, set my plan of revenge in mirroring their own behaviour back to them by being passive aggressive. (And then I get the hell out at the first available time).
You sound like your way of dealing with these people clearly works for you. I also do what works for me. Supernova Empath kicks in, not co-dependant. 🙂
Rather than stimulation, would you describe it as “momentum”? As in the default setting is inertia and the reactions “wake you up” so to speak.
I suppose you could look at it that way, the emotional responses fuel our sense of power.
So the idea is you have chosen power early in life and that is where your strength comes from?
I remember as an 11 year old I had a growing narcissist in a friend. Her parents split and she was ignored in favour of the next partners and acted out with drugs at school. I remember she reported back after a compulsory shrink session that she was asked the question “What do you want more? Love or power?” And she had answered “power.” It’s my earliest memory of watching anarchists love their coping mechanism. Even if I talk to her now and look at her eyes she doesn’t like it and will cause a flurry of smoke and mirrors to move things along.
Wow HG, give it to us straight why dontcha…lol. if that’s not the facts ma’am and nothing but the facts, I don’t know what is. Slap my face and tell me to wake up along with that speech and I may just “get you”!! Thanks for that.
No kidding ABBE! Between this article and “Malice”, I can throw in the towel and conclude my journey on Knowing the Narcissist! There’s your answers and your closure.
🤔
Is some of this really any different for anybody? Granted you are saying you cannot feel love or happiness so you create the illusion that you do.
Aside from that, we all have our mental checklist of traits that we desire someone else to have that we believe we will connect with most for compatibility and love. For example, I am more introverted and shy by nature. Through work, I’ve overcome it most of my adult life. I much prefer and am drawn to someone who is extroverted and makes conversation easy. By being around those kind of people through friendships and such, it helps me with my self-confidence and has me strive to take more chances and try to be a better person. That’s not necessarily a bad thing. I get when you say you take it to the extreme by using other’s character traits to literally make your own as your own experiences and will lie about them.
We all go through a process falling in love and choosing what we think will make us happy in a partner. Does that make us deceitful too?
Especially for the lessers and mid-range Narcs that you say do not know what they are and operate more out of instinct, are they truly setting out on an evil hunt each and every time when they think they are just searching for someone with specific traits to be compatible with them? Not every Narc is malignant, but on a spectrum as you have said.
The reason why you seek those traits however is completely different as to why we seek those traits.
HG, I am thinking about the email I’m going to send you. I’m not sure what four questions I want to ask yet. I’m very confused about what has happened to him.
OK. I can see why my lesser ex wanted residual benefits since I owned a nice home, new car and had a great job and stability, while he had charm, good looks, a change of clothes, a phony career, no money and nothing else. Good riddance after 5 years. He is now with someone who supports him. His only job was part time at a gas station. Need an answer why a greater elite is attracted to me since I am just a normal person without prestige or a title. I’m certainly not rich. I have raised three sons on my own. Not a dime of help from the two fathers. I guess I’m cute but it sounds like that would only go so far. Is it different if he has a primary source and I am only an inner circle friend with a simple life? He found out as much as he could about me on his own. I kept saying I would tell him more when I knew him better. It has been 7 years and I never have gone into detail, but he probably knows as much about me as there is to know. He does/did get plenty of admiration from me. Do you ever “give up” someone for your own benefit to get someone better with more residual benefits even if she gives total admiration or does it have to be a discard process and hurt the person for fuel? I just want to be sure he is one of you. Sometimes I’m sure and then I’m not. It’s not your fault of course. 😀
I shall await your e-mail.
This is the future calling. What about tha e-mail? 🤔
The ⛽️ extraction method will be determined by me, as I see fit for the duration I have pre decided. Understood?
Nice try but it really does not work that way.
Your kind only have one aim eradication or what you call “fuel”. The Treits and benefits are to achieve the first aim only
H.G.
What a magnificent article-one of your best out of so many greats!!!
When you speak of the character traits are you saying they copy the way we act or react to a given situation such as how we speak or how we laugh or what we say or do they take parts of our character like: caring, giving, confident, expectant, optimistic, energetic, etc?
This is strange because all of us might copy someone else in how they react to a situation or being more stoic and less emotional. Is there any part of a narcissist personality, character or behavior that is not taken from another?
Thank H.G. for these wonderful examples-what a treasure to me to finally know and understand.
Some of it may be personality, but it is more to do with achievements, accomplishments, experiences.
So a coworker the other day who I suspect is hiding his own creature, he took something I’ve been doing at work that is initiative, began doing it, then claimed I was only doing it because he set the good example and I’m trying to compete and keep up with him. Is that an example of this?
Claiming credit with a third party for something you someone else has done, is the acquisition of a character trait.
Interesting comment, HG. Reading your words here reminded me of a quote that I read recently…….
“Most people don’t want to be part of the process, they just want to be part of the outcome. But the process is where you figure out who’s worth being part of the outcome.” (Carey Lohrenz).
While your comment and the first sentence in the quote as above are ‘relatable’ when it comes to narcissists, as they tend to get other people to do the work and take the credit for it. I would suggest that (taking HG out of the equation here because he does do hell of a lot of work that he does for free ie the blog, YT, etc), narcissistic people also do not necessarily put the work in but more than happy to add their “contribution” when most of the work has been done already. I do not “operate” like that.
Either I do the work, or I don’t. But, what I do not do is “claim” that I was working all along if I did not do any work.
Asp Emp, great quote!
At first I didn’t pay that much attention to him, and yet he must have stuck in my head. Today at work there was such a situation, that I delivered this quote – in the form of an insult – with great pleasure, ha ha ha 🙂
—————–
As for me, I love the process, the creation, this vortex, and the shaping of the result. I step out of the way, when it’s cream time. I don’t like that kind of glow, flashes, dead talks and boasting. I leave it to others, if I am sure they will handle it well. I am happy with the effect/result – if I know that it turned out exactly as I wanted.
Would you compare Fuel as synonymous with Stimulation?
No ED.