Mother Knows Best
“I love you.”
“I have heard this is a good one for getting a reaction from you because this is what you always want to hear.”
“You won’t ever amount to anything.”
“Not while I am interfering in every facet of your life, controlling you and making your childhood and your adult life one long battle.”
“I just thought I would call you and see how you are.”
“You do not give me enough fuel. You are an ungrateful son/daughter and I regret the day I gave birth to you.”
“It is my birthday next week and I just wondered if you had anything planned.”
“I expect something lavish and spectacular so I can be centre stage. If you haven’t planned such an event you are cruel and uncaring, just as I always thought.”
“I am proud of you.”
“For once you have done something I approve of and now I can take all the credit for it.”
“You were quite a challenge when you were younger.”
“I thought you might resist my cold-hearted manipulation of you, but I broke you in the end.”
“I suppose you have heard the sad news about your Uncle Paul dying?”
“A death! A funeral! Such a wonderful stage for me to dominate and all those relatives to suck fuel from.”
“I am trying to help you,you know?”
“I am trying to control you, stop resisting me.”
“I have done so much for you. All I want is some thanks.”
“I think I have done so much for you. I need some fuel.”
“It was a joke. You take yourself so seriously.”
“It was not a joke. Damn you for seeing through it. I need to back track quickly so I am not accountable.”
“You were an accident.”
“Go on cry and make me feel powerful.”
“Your father and I have discussed this as we think…”
“I have decided….”
“Your father agrees with me so there is no point running to him.”
“Your father knows better than to contradict me.”
“I had such high hopes for you.”
“You aren’t doing what I want.”
“That never happened.”
“It did but you are not allowed to hold that against me.”
“We never thought you would leave home.”
“You were not meant to move out of my control.”
“We hardly ever see you these days.”
“You should be providing me with fuel more often.”
“You weren’t like this when you were little.”
“You were so much easier to control back then.”
“I don’t love you.”
“I don’t love you. I never have.”
69 thoughts on “Mother Knows Best”
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Windstorm2, you really understood, what I wanted to say.You found the right words to describe it. And your mother in law seems to know, what real love means! Thank you for your statement.
😊
Hey Indy and all the other nice mums here on the blog. I really understand that all of you try to give unconditional love to your children, because you missed that so much in your youth and they deserve it. But please be careful and do not accept all their (bad) behaviour. There have to be boundaries, even for your children and grandchildren. Otherwise there is the danger, that you exaggerate “love” and the children do not know any boundaries and start to exploit others. This is the other way to create narcissists. Another danger is that you become an engulfing narcissistic mother or grandmother without knowing it. It is also terrible.
Everything has to be appropriate, even love. Please do not feel offended or attacked. It is only a light warning. We all do not know how to love in a appropriate way.
Hey Mona, yes you’re absolutely right. We call that “spoiling them” here. And I have seen many children harmed that way. Fortunately that is one failing that God has spared me. I am a realist. I’ve always clearly seen everyone’s faults and weaknesses – including myself, my kids and grandkids. I do love them all unconditionally, but that in no way means I condone all their behavior. All 4 of mine were teenagers at the same time. I’m not sure anyone could condone all the behavior of that many teenagers- 3 of them boys!
I have also seen many mothers that are overbearing and tend to try to run their adult children’s lives. I had one of those myself and would die before I’d commit that sin on my children.
As my mother in law used to tell her children and mine, “I love you, but I don’t like how you are acting right now.” Unconditional love does not necessarily mean unconditional acceptance of behavior. Nor does it make one blind to reality.
As a child I was chubby. I will never forget when my mother said a blouse I had on made me look as wide as I was tall. That hurt very much. My siblings are now all diabetic and overweight. I was called fatty, Crisco , lard bucket and other hurtful names. My doctor recently said I had a body other women would die for (at my age). That made me feel good because even after all these years, I feel fat although I’m far from it. My parents have both died and I do my best to think of good things from my childhood but the fatty thing keeps popping up. I think the best thing my father ever did was to take us to the library every Saturday. I do appreciate that memory. When just a little tipsy, he would also play his guitar and want me to sing with him. But drunk, he was a monster. My mother taught me to deny everything going on and would say I was lying about my dad drinking. She denied it but couldn’t get me to do it. So I was a “trouble maker” aka the black sheep of the family. I can give myself a break at this time in my life because I understand why I feel the way I do and why I’ve chosen certain men. Better learning late than never! ☺️☺️
So saddened by this article and the experiences of fellow writers here 😥 We all deserved unconditional love and regard, nurturing and validation. It seems that when we go through this, we either become the opposite and love our children like mama bears (myself included) or turn into very cold detached parents and some narcissist. My parents were not narcs but were not openly loving either. Major depression, alcoholic parents, parents with personality disorders, anxiety, etc….it is hard on kids. It’s like Narc parents at times. The lack of parental presence(or over control) and those abuses of boundaries and sense of self. My mum had MDD and trauma hx, I think my father was more closed and shut off emotionally(military culture). It’s how I explain how I developed my weird attachment patterns.
I really respect that you chose to not have kids HG, even if your reasons are not due to protecting the next generation. It is a cycle of generations. I hope you all find healing from those past (and present) abusive interactions with narc parents.
I just realized my mother is a narc last month after taking the time to look within and realize that something in my childhood is causing me to keep choosing narc men over and over. my mother is emotionally and verbally abusive, controlling and manipulative. She swings from rage to pouting and crying when she feels she isn’t getting her way. I started deleting her nasty texts before fully reading them as I don’t want that toxicity in my head. I feel sorry for her. She is a lesser and it’s truly like she is a child.
I will say though, when reflecting on the narc men and my life and her, they all carry the same familiar energy. Moving forward, I hope to recognize that energy and run. As a nurse I am attracted to the wounded, as I want to heal. But, I cannot do this any longer. It leaves me empty. I appreciate and look forward to your writings each day. They remind me that this is a true mental illness and I didn’t do anything wrong. That there is nothing wrong with me. It also helps me to understand I cannot love them out of the pain and misery they are in, because that is ultimately what we as empathy want to do. Thank you HG for your openness, honesty and for pointing out the truth.
You are welcome AJO and you are clearly seizing the power.
Do you think you are looking for motherly love and nurturing from each new woman?
Then, when the woman gets used to you, they are no longer being motherly so you destroy them?
I am not looking for motherly love. I know there are those that suggest deep down that I am, but I have never experienced it, so I do not even know what to look for in that regard. I do not want to be mothered, although I know there are many of our kind who seek that in their dynamic, the Victim Narcissists. I want recognition and approval because that was what was always denied to me. If I do not get it or that recognition and approval becomes stale, then I turn to the ‘dark arts’ which I learned as I did way back then.
👉🏼Surely you are finding tons of approval and recognition here? I mean I know we are tertiary only, but perhaps it’s not enough ⛽️❓
You answered your own question Ms Brown.
Ah OK Thanks.
I grew up with a father that withheld even acknowledgement of my existence. it was like a 16 year present silent treatment.
But, I had an older Brother who used to play with me, although he had power over me which he exploited to do some narcissistic type things.
When I was too old to mess with he started provoking the dogs, when the dogs got angry with him, he would get angry with the dogs…because they were showing him anger…:D
I guess my Mom was more like your Dad.
Recognition and approval are part of a mothers love for their child
I think you DID get genuine recognition and approval from all of your exes, HG. But it was never enough. And the way you operate at present, it will never be enough!
Your sky-high expectations and your craving for drama (to keep fuel from getting stale) are so destructive that not even the most loving, patient super empath will be able to satisfy your needs.
You have to find a way to fuel yourself to some degree, to ease the burden you placed on her shoulders.
You also get our adoration.
Hmm, narcissists expect their partner to always know what they want, that is like a parent. The parent is expected to deal with things and to know what their child wants immediately.
The famous situation where the narcissist doesnt drink the wine, but then explodes when their partner drinks it, well a boy wouldn’t like it if Mom took the last piece of food either.
Maybe the wine thing is a test of whether or not the partner is as selfless as a mother.
I wonder what would happen if a woman just started acting in an extremely mothering way to a narcissist.
Brian, I am not a mother but I am extremely nurturing. So I poured that part of me into my narc relationships. I always put them first and catered to them. They enjoyed being pampered so thoroughly. They came to expect it, then it became their normal. Of course, that didn’t stop them from disengaging. Yet after me, they had to readjust because most women don’t do that much. They have more boundaries. So the majority of my narc hoovers are based on them wanting to come back for more TLC time. Unfortunate for them, my services are only available when in a relationship.
Even the most independent and macho man would enjoy that whether he admitted it or not 🙂
I’m wondering what the effect would be if the partner went one step further, talking to the narcissist as if he is an eight year old boy.
Smothering him and saying things like “There, there, everything’s going to be OK, mommy loves you”
It might make them go nuts
Well I always knew the line I couldn’t cross with my ex narcs. An unstated rule. Even though they enjoyed being nurtured, I could never tell them what to do. I could never talk down to, scold, or withhold something as punishment. That was their job 😉
HG, may I ask, how old was your mother when she had you? Or: how old is she now?
29
These are nasty things to say to a child. No excuses.
My female friend is a narc. She is only interested in looking good, with the top brand products, luxurious holidays and weekends away with strange men. She ‘dumps’ her children with her parents at every opportunity and when she is with them they can never do anything right. She tells them what she wants them to be when they’re older and throws them in dance classes/scouts/brownies/gymnastics etc for the ‘break’. I remember when her son fell over the once and he had a gash on his knee, pouring with blood – she shouted “stop crying you’re giving me a headache”, spat on her hand and rubbed the blood away so forcefully that it made him moan in pain (so she could see the damage)…then said “good, you would have been in trouble if we had to go to the hospital to get it stitched” and shouted because his trousers were ruined. “You’re embarrassing me walking around with a hole in them”. The look on the poor boy’s face was of confusion and anger. They are never hugged because she doesn’t like to be touched by “filthy childrens hands with god knows what on them”. She despised her husband because she couldn’t control him. She hated her son because she would say to me “he reminds me of his father, he’s going to turn out like him”. When I would look after him, he was such a lovely boy. He told me things he liked to do (which were more ‘femenine’ than what his mother had in store for him).
She’d say “what am I going to do when my parents die, who will watch my children?”
My mother? Well I was not her favorite child but she did love me, just didn’t like me. “You can be so sweet and then as mean as you can be.” “You have two personalities.” “You are a miserable child.” You are a miserable witch” ‘You are a little bitch” “What did you do now, you are always the one who causes the problems.” “Your father ruined you, he spoiled you and made you selfish” “I never loved your father”
Ha ha I didn’t like her either but I tried to have a relationship with her because she was my mom. I tried until she died.
She is with me, I dream of her. She shows me things.
I was never told I love you, from either parent. I wasn’t hugged or given any validation unless it was negative….
I tell my Son, at least once per day, that he is loved.
I have not missed a day in over 32 years….
Ms brown
You deserved to be loved. Everyone here on this blog deserved to be loved. I am so sorry for what you went through. Your son is lucky to have you.
🙏🏼
K….I am lucky to have him and his is the only love I trust 100%
Good for you creating that bond with your son! I do the same thing with my daughter. Went thru 5 years of infertility. Everyday counts and there will never be a day my little one hit wonder doesn’t hear how much she is loved!
MLA – Clarece and Ms brown
Awwwww…now I am all teary-eyed. Children really are wonderful!
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Sorry your childhood had no love. Mine neither. No hugs and never heard I love you. But never heard I don’t love you either. Love was just never mentioned. I taught my children to hug and say I love you when we meet, part or talk on the phone. It is a tremendous source of happiness and solace. My kids are all in their 30’s now too. I’m so glad you have such a good relationship with your son! Loving relationships with our children make such a difference in our lives.
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Mothers….they have the ability to destroy and many take that opportunity. At 50 years old I have finally detached. We have no form of communication unless she emails me which has happened one time since I finally stepped away. My sister stepped away from her completely three years ago but I wasn’t strong enough yet. No more of her not remembering the things she said, no more lying, no more keeping me down so that my self esteem is where it should be for her to maintain power, no more lording my inheritance over me. I’ve let go of the money, the striving for approval, all of it. It has been pointed out to me that even if I’m “good” to her and behave exactly the way she wants, she will probably still take my sister and I out of her will if she hasn’t already. We’re no longer slaves. My sister and I are free now. Her power is gone. It wouldn’t have happened for me without HG. He is the cleanser for all things toxic.
HG, I am no longer able to see any comments on WordPress for your blog. I’ve tried every way possible. I’m coming to narcsite.com which is just as easy. Just wanted to give you a heads up.
Noted, thank you.
I don’t know what you did, HG, but it’s fixed! Thank you!!
You are welcome.
Hi 12345…ive more or less done the same. I only see my mother when she visits the kids for holidays. I never call her or text her only to make plans related to the kids. You could say i divorced her. Its sad but km way healthier as a result. Even when she does visit the kids she still tries triangulating my brother and i and ive not seen him for 11 yrs. She cant help herself. Its a sickness.
No money no nothing is worth your peace and frame of mind.
I was at a party yesterday with lots of chubby babies and dogs running around. Needless to say, I was overdosing on Oxytocin holding and kissing babies and petting dogs. That is my joy. I could do it all day everyday. Some women don’t enjoy that. I know narcissistic women definitely do not.
I heard i wouldn’t amount to anything every time my dad was drunk. When old and sober, he said I was nothing if I was not number one in my job. I made more money than he ever did. I would cry all the way home because seeing my parents was so stressful. Sad days to remember. I’m thankful I survived and raised my sons differently.
It must be deeply traumatising to have such a ‘mother’… to never have known the warmth a loving mother gives… it must have been very dark and lonely for you growing up, and completely hopeless… I can understand why you decided to take the path in life you chose.
HG, in terms of dealing with her, does your plan involve holding a mirror up to her, revealing the horror of her true nature?
No it goes far further than that.
Good! She deserves all that comes her way…
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H.G., I imagine you are quietly building up your arsenal. Would there be covert recordings of every conversation with MatriNarc and a hacked computer per chance?
More than that.
Good for you HG. Maybe you can get the closure you need and continue in your healing. I’m rooting for you!
I am with Matilda and Windstorm2 on this that it is heartbreaking to me hearing the countless number of stories from victims of Narc mothers. Another reader had commented to you HG, that in fact, you started off as a victim of narcissistic abuse because of MatriNarc. How do the doctors address that with you in treatment?
HG, did you have a chance to listen to Christine Louis Canonville’s podcast with Bree Bonchay from WNAAD?
I would highly recommend anyone suffering from a Narcissist Mother to listen to that taping.
Christine said one of the things that struck her the most earlier on in treating victims who suffered from Narc Mothers was that they had no concept or didn’t even understand what traits a good mother would have. Even if they listened to their friends tell stories about their “normal” mothers etc. So she breaks out the traits of what a “good” mother has to contrast with the traits of a Narc Mother as follows:
Good Mother:
*Has maternal, nurturing instincts;
*Establishes healthy boundaries (i.e. allowing their teenage child more privacy in their room rather than just barging in without knocking understanding their child is developing and changing and needs to establish that growing independence);
*Validates and loves their child;
*Is patient, kind, and considerate
*Is forgiving with their child
vs.
Narcissistic Mother:
*Above traits are missing;
*Brittle, controlling, never apologizes;
*No boundaries;
*Establishes role reversal of the child tending to their needs for validation;
*Projects anger, crucifies them and frightens them to control behavior;
*Is always right, never to blame
If this is all you saw growing up, how would someone know how to establish the good traits without becoming very self-aware? The victims would be clueless to wonder how they would have responded had they been shown the traits of a good mother towards them.
Christine also explains a fourth, not common defense mechanism for victims with the Flight, Fight or Freeze mechanisms. It is Fawning, or surrendering which is basically the victim relinquishing all control and trying to please and placate the Narcissist. She explains how that concept generated.
She describes the “Engulfing” MatriNarc vs. the “Ignoring” MatriNarc or how they can crossover sometimes.
I would seriously PAY to hear an interview conversation between HG and Christine, hands down. It would be two major powerhouses with so much knowledge and experiences to share!!!
No I haven’t listened to that podcast. I recognise much of the list in the second section and of course more besides.
I’m sure the list in the first section of traits leaves you dumbfounded.
Mla…i never listened to that podcast with christine yet but that list you wrote is bang on for my mother! Most of my childhood the roles were reversed. She had a breakdown and for days wouldnt get out of bed and i was the one who went to the neighbors for help. I also did a lot of the raising of my brother.
Fawning id heard of before and need to look into further. It describes my relationship right now. Placating the narc so i dont have to go thru the turmoil of devaluing or making hard decisions.
I never fawned with my other quite the opposite!
Oh, I’m so glad that resonated for you. To elaborate a bit more, Christine said she actually learned about “Fawning” through her daughter who is an animal behaviorist and studies their defense mechanisms. It is the primal reaction, of say when a dog will roll on its back and expose it’s tummy to the other animal as a sign of peace and surrender. That is the fourth mechanism added to flight, fight or freeze which I had not read or heard until Christine’s podcast.
It would explain how some, and myself in particular have that inherent reaction to switch into peacemaker mode. I frequently did that growing up in my house.
Yes, unclear of what a ggood mother is. I took an experience I remembered and had to go to 2 women friends who I know would die for their kids to ask their opinion of that experience. The response was they would feel resentful, that it was deep neglect and they could never behave so uncaring for the emotional well being of their daughter.
i still struggle with what a good mother is for me based on how I was treated.. But I know exactly who a good mother is for my daughter. Strange I cant still get so clear on this part.
I dont love ..ill never wrap my head around how a parent could say this to their child. Its disgusting!
Both my mother and mother in law are narcs. My mother is a midrange victim and my mother in law an upper midrange victim.
My mums the expert at rewriting history to gaslight. Whatever memory i bring up it either didnt happen or happened differently. I see now its not about whether shes right its about me bowing down to her and agreeing its right which i never do!
My mother in law loves to make sure we plan things for her on birthdays, mothers day etc and will go as far as to tell us which day, which restaurant, what to buy her for a gift. We do all that and its never good enough and usually the gift is exchanged. A gift card is too impersonal. Shes trained her son to cater to her as if shes a queen and if he doesnt she lashes out very cruelly. Shes been so mean to him and ive confronted her on it and of course get hung up on and shes in tears. She is the matrinarc in our lives and its soooo annoying! She knows i can see thru her so clearly and altho im respectful i know how to get under her skin and many of her tactics shes stopped using on me. She knows i know what she is. In most cases i “ignore” her rude comments or her self boasting as if ive not heard. So very true narcs hate to be ignored its like pouring acid on a wound.
She continually self boasts and everything has to be because of her or about her. No one can recieve credit for anything otherwise she feels insecure. A lot of it i ignore but its so very annoying but …mother knows best😝
So much of what they say has double meaning and isnt genuine in the sense its meant to. A narc parent is very exhausting and you get to a point you want to avoid them.
I suppose you know that it is very possible, or rather likely, that she was playing her narc games with you even when you were an infant and toddler. I think this why the damage is so deep. How could a baby deal with such a mother – without stifling its true self and developing infantile defence mechanisms?
It is neither very possible or rather likely Elizabeth. She did so.
Did you mother treat your siblings different then you?
If so do you see where you may have held different traits they did not to which is why she honed in on them and pushed you to become what you are? Or because you were the eldest and must be the example to them of what was expected? Or even they had “flaws” in her eyes and you didn’t?
I have one other, you were the eldest and brought a responsibility onto her she didn’t want, attention was given to you and not her in which you were to be punished for this? And this is why your siblings were spared.
She did. You will understand why she did as she did in due course.
Thank you HG, Was she the eldest to?
No.
Did she have siblings? If so brothers/sisters? I am curious, yet as to why I can wait till your ready to say.
Yes.
Thank you HG.
I hope you have a wonderful day.
That last part was to be worded
Brought a responsibility on to her maybe she didn’t want, then attention was given to you
You’re right, Elizabeth. I don’t think a narc mother can raise an emotionally healthy baby. Babies all need love and a secure, dependable environment. They obviously won’t always become a narc themselves, but I think they will always be warped and have lifetime emotional problems. I have healed a tremendous amount from the love of my own children and grandchildren, but the scars will always be there – like when someone heals from terrible burns.
Elizabeth..this happened to my hubby. His mum conditioned him from a very young age. Some of it was good jn the way he treats a woman. Opening doors etc but from a young age she manipulated him and made him feel guilty when she didnt get her way. Also financially shes expected him to support her a lot. As a child she relied kn him heavily as a sjngle parent. It taught him some good skills but many were abusive. He was her puppet and always went along with what she expected. Its not been as easy for her to do that since he married but she still exerts her control when and where she can. I think narc mothers do control and manipulate their children from a very early age.
Sad that I heard so many of these, so many times. So very sad that children are still having to hear these things from the person who should love them most of all.