My Point of View


One of the most powerful (from my perspective) and troubling (from your perspective) is the fact that my kind and me appear to act without any regard to logic. We appear to delight in ensnaring people by pretending to be something that we are not even though it seems completely genuine. We cause people to fall completely in love with us and then apparently turn on them, lashing out at them and hurting them. Indeed, we seem to delight in causing pain and chaos to everyone around us and we show no concern at such conduct. We behave in such a hypocritical fashion, chastising you for doing something and then doing the very same thing ourselves. We say one thing and do so with utter conviction and then in the next breath say something completely contradictory yet seem not to realise what we just done. We act with impunity, taking at will and with no concern for what anybody else may suffer as a consequence of our actions. The list is long and worrisome. Trying to fathom out why we behave in this manner leaves you bewildered, exhausted, defeated and broken. This is all of course intentional. We behave in this manner in order to wear you down, provoke reactions from you and most of all so that you provide us with our precious fuel. Our apparent disregard for logic and reason causes massive consternation to you and your kind. This is because you are ruled by order and the need to understand. It is woven into your DNA and anything which deviates from this creates a significant problem for you. Our behaviour makes no sense to you for one simple reasons. You are looking at the way we behave through your world view. You are imposing your values and your outlook on what we do. Why should it be the case that your world view should be regarded as the only one? Why should the way you look at the world be considered as the correct way of doing so? When did you become the arbiter of all? This is the high-handed arrogance which proves the undoing of your kind. Oh you will wail to anyone who will listen at how monstrous you have been treated, how we are evil people and the spawn of Satan. You sit in so-called support forums on the internet decrying our behaviour, writing page after page about what has happened to you and how horrendous you have been treated. All about you isn’t it? Oh I can hear your howls of protest now, at how you are a good person and that you do not hurt anyone. Do you not? How then is it that you injure me with your failure to behave consistently. You call me for it yet you are just as guilty if in fact not more so. You promise me so much at the outset and then you change the way that you behave so you do not give me what you once did. I do not change. I shine and dazzle and soar, but you make it all change, why do you do it? This failure hurts me as you reduce my fuel and force me to punish you for it. You force me to seek it from other sources when I would much rather keep obtaining it from you. You call into question my abilities and criticise me notwithstanding just how that behaviour wounds me. You hold yourself our as caring and considerate yet you do me these injustices. You hide behind your mask of empathy, telling the world you are the good person, the caring person and the one that looks our others yet this is just a ruse in order to wound me and my kind after everything we have done.

Perhaps if you stopped looking at the world from your own perspective and looked at it from mine you would start to understand. You talk so often about showing compassion and your ability to put yourself in the place of other people. Why do you not do this with me? You tell me you love me. I read about how many of you declare you loved my kind and me in a way that went beyond anything you had shown before. Sometimes I wonder. If you loved us in the way you say that you do, then why can you not put yourself in our shoes and then understand what it is we have to deal with. If you did this, you would start to see that our behaviour is completely understandable. It makes absolute sense when viewed from our perspective and not yours. I see no reason why you should not try this and then you will have gained considerable insight into why we behave as we do and then, should you still deem what we do as unacceptable then you can at least understand it and take evasive action can’t you? You will not have to decry us to all who will listen whilst and I think it is only right that I make this point, you are not helping yourself by wallowing in this moaning and self-pity and surrounding yourself with others who behave in a similar fashion. Providing blow by blow accounts of what we do in order to elicit sympathy but then asking why does he do this and why does he do that, is not getting you the answer because you are asking the wrong people. Ask me instead and I will tell you; view the world through our eyes and everything will make sense. It all comes down to one small word; fuel. That is why we act as we do. That is why we do the things we do and say the things we say and once you comprehend that it is all about fuel you will be looking at the world through our eyes and finally it will all make sense. Go on try it. I dare you or would you rather sit and milk sympathy and never move forward? Don’t say I never gave you the chance.

105 thoughts on “My Point of View

  1. Noname says:

    Hello again, Jenna,

    no, he is not a Mid-Range, he is a Greater and he has very “impressive” dark past story of “broken hearts”.

    When he recognized the pattern he was into (idealization, devaluation, discard), he didn’t like it. By the way, he never “hoovered” his women, because his level of “disgust” toward them was more intensive, then desire to meet them again. If they contacted them, he ignored them completely. He never forgets anything, he never forgives anything.

    No matter what many Narcs say, this patten makes them to suffer too. Unhealthy relationship is always the mutual hell. He wanted to broke this pattern, but he couldn’t change himself. It was a dead end for him…

    He knew me for years. We shared the same social circles and aside of polite “Hello” we had nothing in common. But when I was into my first marriage with a Narc husband, he started to watch me closely. He said “Knowing your asshole husband, I was sure that your marriage wouldn’t last for long, but you did impossible. You both were happy for 7 years…and I realized that YOU are capable to break my pattern…”.

    During and after divorce I had pretty intensive smear campain from my first husband’s side. I did nothing to prevent or correct it, I just patiently waited for “finita la comedia”.

    But then the dynamic of smear campain strangely changed to my behalf and I realized that I had a “third player” in this game. But who is it? I had no clue.

    I started to listen to people more attentively and finally discovered the “origin”. He was genius in his subtle game. I asked our mutual friends for his phone number, called him, and asked him single question “Why?”. He said “We need to talk. It is a long story”…

    Yes, we had a talk and he was brutally direct and honest about himself. He told WHO and WHAT he is. It wasn’t an easy conversation at all, but I wasn’t scared. That directness and honesty won me. I didn’t run away…

    And then we started to discuss our “rules”. And then we got married… We AREN’T in love with each other. We both aware of it and this fact doesn’t bother us. We just live and enjoy our life as we can.

    About questions…
    I always ask him only one question “How ARE you?”, because it is the only one thing I need to know. If he wants to elaborate, he (for example) could answer “Furious. I’m at work now. I’ll be back in 2 hours…” or “Calm. What’s for dinner?”.

    About FUEL (and POWER)…
    I understand this concept differently.

    Narcs’ POWER is an ABSENCE of pain. When they don’t feel pain, they are powerful. Nothing bothers them. They can occupy their minds on something else, something productive. They are fighters and winners!

    But having internal pain, their minds becomes paralized, they loose their productivity and talents. In such condition they want the only one thing. To GET RID of PAIN. How? “Painkillers” –
    their FUEL. Where could they get it? From ANYONE who has it. Empaths. Co-Dependands…

    Apparently, the force of my “painkillers” is very enough for him, so he needn’t to seek them somewhere else.

    As for your own story, Jenna, I hate to say it, but you have to leave him. Find your internal power to do it.

    If Narc abuses you in ANY form, that’s mean he doesn’t consider you as “safe” for him. So, he doesn’t trust you. And that’s mean the END of story. It ISN’T your fault. It ISN’T his fault. You both just DON’T fit each other. So simple. So complex.

    Belive me, my dear, this wonderful world are full of good guys who are really compatible with you and who would be glad to spend their lives with you! Find them and be happy! Big hug.

    1. jenna says:

      Hello noname, thx for your reply. If he’s a greater pls beware. They are always malevolent. If he has an ‘impressive dark past story of broken hearts’, it also means he has no remorse. You say he never forgets nor forgives anything. He sounds very dangerous. He doesn’t care that his pattern of idealize, devalue, discard has hurt others. He just tells you this. He has no empathy. You must be offering him some kind of residual benefits or character traits, or perhaps you help him financially, something he is not telling you. And if he feels such ‘disgust’ towards women therefore not even hoovering them, then nobody will be able to change him, considering his long standing pattern. He sounds like a severe mysogynist. And i will almost guarantee that he probably has other women on the side.
      You only ask him one question ‘How are you?’ He is shutting your freedom of expression and speech. You deserve more than that.
      In my case, he is my ex. But still, i tell him exactly why or if his behaviors bother me, i am very argumentative with him, and i let myself be heard. I ask hundreds of questions, over and over again, until he is frustrated. It is my right if he wants to remain friends with me. And soon, i’m going to have the talk about his secrecy too. I do not agree with secrecy between friends and it’s bothering me. If he wants to keep secrets, then i’ll not consider him a friend any longer.
      Although you see fuel as a painkiller, it is not. It is narcissistic supply, in the form of attention, adoration, admiration etc. Anything that is laden with emotion, positive or negative.
      Going into a bolthole everytime you feel you may ‘hurt’ him or everytime you want to speak up but can’t, is not healthy. You deserve to be heard. Pls take care. We must all take care.

    2. echo says:

      Wow, this and your previous posts were extremely interesting to read! Thanks for sharing all of this, Noname.

    3. Indy says:

      Can a greater narcissist be purely narcissist and not sociopathic in your opinion/taxonomy of the narcissists? It sounds like what no name is describing is a purely Narcissist greater without sociopathy?

      Hi No name!

      Forgive me, I am assuming from your description that he’s not sociopathic though has keen awareness of his process. If I’m mistaken, I apologize. It is impressive, and I would imagine exceedingly rare for one to be like your husband. I also wonder if he is keeping things secret, using forms of emotional/psychological manipulation that you may allow in this situation as part of your agreement with each other? just wondering as your story makes me very curious. No disrespect here, more curious.

      I agree with what you said about Jenna leaving her ex, Anyone that abuses another needs to be left. The cost of such is too high on self respect and self esteem. And, those that are the best mental manipulators can make it seem like it’s not abuse to the target. Gas lighting can be very subtle yet profoundly devastating to the target’s mind and sense of reality.

      Interesting example. HG, what is your view on this?

  2. Michele says:

    HG. Great explanation. I do have one question. What purpose does it serve the narcissist to internalize hatred for someone for over 30 years then in the space of a few days unleash extreme verbal and psychological abuse.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It is provocation designed to draw fuel. Do you mean that there has been no interaction between narcissist and victim for 30 years and then there has been a manifestation of heated fury or has there been interaction but no manifestation of heated fury during that time period?

  3. Lisa says:

    Oooo. I think you were having a bad day when you wrote this one HG. Did someone rattle your cage? Just saying….
    (Good read never the less ;))

  4. DebbieWolf says:

    Thanks Superxena

    I was mortified…😨😰
    Luckily the right comment made it through in time..😊

    1. superxena says:

      Your welcome DebbieWolf! need not be mortified…! Thank you for your concern!!!

  5. Cleo of Course says:

    I did try putting myself into my mother’s and an ex’s mind frame, world view, and it was the key to setting me free. What I felt was similar to the driven “wanting” and emptiness of my childhood when I was bulimic and anorexic. But I turned the self-hate around to hating others and realized how truly miserable they were every minute of every day if they weren’t consuming. And I was wonderful fuel.

    No one can “save” someone with an eating disorder, which is the most self-destructive of all mental illnesses, or even an addict. The will to change must come from within.

    An empath, or anyone is the sight of one of your kind, must accept they cannot change someone who does not want to be changed. At that point, any pain someone feels from one of your kind is their own doing.

    I believe we live many lives. Someone like you is in this life on the path of learning to live in peace with themselves and the world through nobody else’s help. They must do it alone. All we can do is block your worst intentions and hope you find a way to come to peace, because your kind live a frightful, hate filled, non-stop, predator existence with the highs becoming shorter and shorter. I saw it in my mother, my brother, my grandfather my great-grandfather, my ex-husband and an ex-significant other. I saw an aunt, an empath and victim, suffer one narc relationship after another until the day she put a bullet into her brain.

    My contact with my family is functional and only by text. I respond to nothing else. I do not hate anyone. I am not indifferent. I am compassionately detached.

    I come here to celebrate my freedom, and to tell those who are suffering to listen to this man, but do not feed the monster. And, yeah, I realize this is a type of fuel, which is why it is time to leave and never return.

    There is peace at the end of the tunnel if you choose for peace.

  6. Ann says:

    HG, if we do not measure up and we do not provide the right “fuel,” then please explain why you wouldn’t just leave us and find someone else who meets your needs and standards? Why would you stay with someone who doesn’t understand you or behave in a way you find pleasing and correct?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Can you be more specific about the context? Do you mean when you are an IPPS? When you state “we do not provide the right fuel” when do we ascertain this – during seduction or devaluation?

  7. Jilly says:

    What happens when the empath can’t take any more abuse and then finally they turn on the narcissist/sociopath and want to kill them. This is reactive abuse which the knobhead narc as the horror he is turns it against them and points the finger – yeah u see she was crazy all along!!!!

    So HG what do u make of that. Fuel enough for a bonfire???

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Indeed, you will be branded as a psycho, a nut job, as The Crazy One. You fountain with fuel and allow us to smear you into the bargain. Whether of course we dis-engage is another matter entirely.

      1. C★ says:

        never ceases to amaze me how truly chaotic and complex… Your mind and how it functions and the dynamics when entangled… still makes my head spin….

  8. Matilda says:

    I’m trying my best to view the world through your eyes.

    You are hypersensitive and bitter due to past trauma. Understandable. However, your ordeal is not a carte blanche for you to mistreat others! There is no excuse for abuse. NONE. Never has been. Never will be.

    How about seeing the world through our eyes, and realising that none of us has ever wanted to harm the narcs in our lives… that we have to act in *self-defence*… that all we have ever wanted is to love and be loved.

  9. Sanborne Addison says:

    Suspect you’d find more actual “fuel” in a plate of buttered waffles with maple syrup… which no one owes you for nothing, either.

    1. lynnyrn says:

      Sounds unappetizing lol…

  10. Anita says:

    Wow thank you

  11. Ellen says:

    Interesting to see things from a narcissists perspective, and well-written. Thank you, HG, for sharing this.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you and you are welcome.

  12. Mona says:

    Hello Noname, it was at one of our last meetings when I stood in front of him and he sat down, held my hand and said to me solemnly: ” I trust you. And if we come together again, we will reign all the others. We are superior to all the others- together as a couple.” That was the point of no return. I knew at that moment, he is mad. It was a sad moment for me, no feeling of “victory” at all. I do not want to become an accomplice for him. I do not want to abuse people and reign them. I have had the possibility so many times, I could have abused my power over people – because of my professional position. That does not satisfy me in any way. In some way it is funny. I really have the power to do it (only to some people) and I am not interested in it and he longs for the power and tries to get it with all means. Thank you, I just realised something new for me.

  13. Ciara says:

    DEEP!!! I’m not sur what I am normal or super Emphath,because honestly sometimes I really don’t give a care, it is what it is ….if it don’t evolve me I’m not interested, I listen briefly and I talk kindly I’m not into long talks nor short only beneficial. My motto is “keep it moving” and that I do! I can understand your way of taking in the process of getting what you need, shoot I can’t understand some Emphath giving until they explode To each its own ! Can you tell me what I am just by reading my comment
    Great blog H.G thanks for giving me insight and most of all thank you for your time👍

  14. Mona says:

    Hello Noname, I agree to a lot of what you have said, except parts of the last paragraph and one sentence in the middle. They do what they want to do and very often it is evil at a high degree. It is a form of self- denial not to see it as evil. They do evil things and there is no excuse for it. I don`t think, we torture them in any way. And – of course – we have the right to judge them for their behaviour. Why do you give him more respect for his pain than for your own pain? Why? Please ask yourself that question.
    And I believe it is a huge trap to think, if you get his trust, he will be loyal in the end and he will love you. I have to disappoint you: they have lost that ability. Do not forget, you are only an object for him, nothing else and if he is bored of you, he put you on the shelves.
    No matter how much you have supported him in the past. And no matter what he has promised to you.
    And although I know you do not mean it – it is a big slap in the face of victims- who lost their sanity, their homes, their children, their wealth- to say, do not judge them. They are as they are. Maybe your narc is not that bad as the narcs of the others – but that was what we all believed – and had to pay a high prize for that false assumption. That is the cold, hard truth. Play with him “love” , if you want. But never give your heart to him or any trust. He will abuse it. And please do not miss the right time to leave him.

  15. A.R. says:

    Simply I would like to say it is as impossible for an empath to experience no emotion & eat up other peoples’ energies or fuel as you would do as it is for a narcissist to experience love, happiness, contentment, pain, fear or sadness as we do.
    To say we could be empty is to say you could be full. Neither is true.
    Talking about our experiences offers validation of being heard…not always a need for solution.
    Our design of being empathic people us like what someone else wrote “if you’re happy, we’re happy”.
    If you could only tell us what you need when you need it, I don’t think you realize how happy we would be to supply it. I cannot read minds…& If by some slight of comfort or security I as an empath have changed & this hurts you as a narcissist….it’s time to speak up.
    Except this brings back the topic of fury. Another reason why an empath cannot truly stand in the shoes of a narcissist…I can only speak for myself …I cannot comprehend what it must be like day in & day out to have a percolating fury just behind your thoughts at all times.
    I could never understand that. Nor do I wish to.
    It does help me understand however the unrealistic need to find some person or object to nullify this sensation. It must be hell. Like the alcoholic who cannot fill their vaccuous needs while in their cups.
    And this is when I as an empath wish to be able to remove your pain which you invariably call superiority. Nothing less than a form of hiding when you cannot quell or quiet the beast.
    It is time to understand no amount of our emotions will fix or change you. You must be left to your own devices to either die off or evolve.
    Perhaps one day when the lack of emotion has left your kind & the extreme sensitivity has left our kind…perhaps then is when we will find harmony with each other.

    1. A.R. says:

      After reading the above writing (Noname) I wish to retract my above comments and side in his/her camp of insight.

    2. That’s beautifully stated.
      I still love my Narcissist, and I’m not trying to go no contact anymore. I understand him now. Thanks to mr Tudor largely.
      I think he crossed the N sea even and stopped hurting me, stopped triangulating and doesn’t employ silent treatment anymore. After everything we’ve been through, he stated: I am yours..We’ve entered a different phase, it’s calm, and beautiful.
      Like I told him in the beginning, I’ll love him no matter what. It’s still true.

  16. Pamela says:

    HG, I am curious to your reasoning behind this particular image for the blog post? Are you a demon, or are you demonized?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I am demonised.

  17. Witch says:

    (Changing my name from “D” to witch because I noticed there has been another “D” around here.)

    I’m totally cool with your kind feeling like we failed you and that you’re dying when we ignore you.
    Your suffering is a necessary evil and I support it.

  18. DebbieWolf says:

    Sorry Superxena…great post 👍
    Omg.. really having probs with my device today.

    I liked your comment…
    Totally agree with you.
    Enough is enough…

    1. superxena says:

      Hello DebbieWolf!
      Thank you! I just have found your comment..Don’t worry..I am as well having problems with editing…I understood what you meant😉

  19. DebbieWolf says:


    Great post.👎

  20. Noname says:

    “My point of view” from another side of the fence…

    We all (Narcs and Empaths) have our internal childhood trauma. We all have our internal “demons” (“beasts”). We all have to live and deal with our internal pain. We all are in the same boat, actually.

    Considering the PAIN matter, we (Narcs and Empaths) are similar and different at the same time. What differs us from each other is the level of TOLERANCE to pain and, according to that, our pain management tactics.

    Empaths have a legendary ability to generate the internal “painkillers” and heal themselves. “Shoot me down and I’ll get up again”… We can tolerate pretty high level of pain and, because of it, we doesn’t have the harmful effect of escalation of the pain response to its maximal point. Fury.

    Nevertheless, empaths can feel fury if they face extremly high level of internal pain. What the empathic mother would feel if someone raped, tortured, and killed her child? Anger? No. FURY. I can imagine WHAT that generally calm, kind and compassionate woman is capable to do to her child torturer to PUNISH him. If the torturer escapes her (or legal) punishment, she’ll seek for REVENGE, because it is impossible to live with such level of internal pain. Her internal “painkillers” won’t help her, because they aren’t so powerful. And no one dares to judge her for her actions, because her condition is understandable.

    Narcs don’t have (or have, but very limited amount of) the internal “painkillers”. They are extremely hypersensitive to any level of internal pain. The innocent phrase “This shirt doesn’t suit you” makes them feel what that that empatic mother felt for her tortured child! Overwhelming PAIN and FURY. Then Narcs will PUNISH you for that or seek for REVENGE.

    Narc’s LACK of tolerance to pain, inability to “block” the pain, absence of internal “painkillers” force them to protect themselves. And they do it in the only one possible way. CONTROL.

    Controlling everything, they can foresee the upcoming pain and can prevent it quickly in their own ABUSIVE way. That’s why they read our phones, tablets, laptops. That’s why they isolate us. That’s why they lower our self-esteems. That’s why they bind us to them. That’s why they make us dependable on them. That’s why they smear us. That’s why they discard us. They control to avoid the pain.

    They don’t TRUST us. They don’t trust anyone to be “painless” and “safe” enough for them. They won’t give their hearts and souls to anyone, they won’t share their internal secrets, because they know that they WON’T SURVIVE the betrayal of trust. BETRAYAL is the lethal level of pain for them. Empaths can survive betrayal, Narcs can’t.

    Narcs try to find the “painless” and “safe” partners for themselves (their “ones”). Actually, they don’t crave for validation, appreciation, even love. They crave for GUARANTEE that you’ll NEVER EVER betray them in any form. If you, somehow, can prove to your Narc that you are “safe” for him and keep your “word of honor”, you’ll win his trust. And then he’ll give himself COMPLETELY to you. His soul. His heart. His body. His love. His loyalty. The whole world…

    Buuuut… Unfortunately, it is impossible to live and not to hurt anyone. We all are humans. We can have our good and bad times. We can be ill. We can be sad. We can be tired, moody, angry, crabby. We can say harsh words to our partners not because we want to hurt them intentionally, but because we are dealing with OUR internal pain at that moment for sake of survival.

    Narcs can understand our “moody outbursts” intellectualy, but they can’t help us just simply IGNORING and FORGIVING them. OUR pain immediately transfers to THEM and they have zero tolerance to it… That’s why, living with a Narc husband, I AM the one who has a BOLTHOLE. When I feel that I’m disharmonized and can accidentially hurt him, I escape to my bolthole for certain period of time to heal myself. Doing it, I stop all contacts with outside world, I turn my phone off, no internet, nothing. Just me and my internal world. Doing it, I protect HIM from ME. He understands and agrees with that. Otherwise, our relationship will be finished. NO ONE can live and NOT to hurt anyone. It is impossible. This is our human’s nature.

    Narc’s PAIN is a “GATEWAY” to their “beasts”. They know this and they do everything to avoid pain (“opening”). They have no choice. That’s why they are chained to our “painkillers” (“FUEL”). They permit to cease their pain and keep their “beasts” closed. It is a matter of life and death for them…

    Narcs aren’t an evil at all. Yes, they are dangerous. By all means. In many cases, leaving them is a matter of sanity and survival. Do it without regret if you see that you both can’t manage the relationship. You both just torture each other. No need to prolong the agony. But don’t judge them. They are as they are. Take it or leave it.

    1. jenna says:

      Noname, i used to try v hard to understand my ex-midranger. I used to help him understand himself and his narcissism, telling him it’s not his fault etc. and that it’s the fault of his childhood abuser. One day, he blocked me for two days for the ‘reason’ of trying to forget his past. He unblocked me later. However, that blocking move really hurt me and frm that day, i no longer try to heal him. He tries v hard to be good and when i tell him something hurts me, he usually never repeats it. But he may try another behavior that hurts because i haven’t discussed it yet. So you must be v careful. Going into your bolthole so you don’t hurt him is a solution, but how long before you break? How long have you been married?
      What abt him hurting you eg. silent treatments, gaslighting, etc?

      1. Noname says:

        Hello, Jenna,
        thank you for sharing your story. I feel your pain…

        About your questions…

        We live together for 13 years.

        He doesn’t abuse me in any form because:

        First, this is our main rule. No abuse. Otherwise, I’ll immediately stop our marriage and nothing can change my decision.

        Second, he has no reasons to do it. I don’t hurt him. Moreover, I don’t have any desire to do it.

        Third, I’m not a “victim” by my nature. I don’t permit anyone to treat me in abusive way. I had a lot of various types of abuse in my family during childhood and I always rebelled facing them. They always punished me for rebellion. It was a vicious cycle. I paid very high price to survive and be myself, but I won. My younger sister chose to be a “pleasant and obedient good girl” way. I fought for her with all my family, I protected her from them, but she consciously took their side and finally submitted to them. Now, she is a heavy Co-Depended, married to Lesser/Victim Narc and he treats her like a dirt. I feel bad for her, but what’s done is done…

        I wish you good luck, Jenna. Be happy!

        1. jenna says:

          Thx for your reply noname. But HG says the fuel eventually gets stale. It is not the case in your relationship? Your story is out of the ordinary frm everything i read here. This is why i’m curious.

          For example, a simple question such as ‘what time are you coming home?’ so that you can get dinner ready will ignite their fury. Do you never ask him questions? He sounds like a mid-ranger. Is he? Thx.

          My ex mid-ranger sounds much like yours. When he hurts me, i let him know. and then he never repeats that particular behavior again. He might try a new behavior, not realizing it hurts me, but as long as i tell him later, he won’t repeat that one as well. For example, when he blocked me for two days, i told him it upset me and that friends don’t do that to friends. So he promised he would never block me again. This is giving me some hope. But it goes against everything i’m learning here. I’m so confused. 😣

          1. HG Tudor says:

            And so he continues to manipulate you.

          2. jenna says:

            I’m just getting confused HG after hearing noname’s story. Frm her example, it sounds like there is hope to have a relationship or friendship with a narc. But how is it possible that noname’s husband never abuses her? My ex stopped future faking. He stopped silences also. I just had to really explain that it hurts me. But he keeps too many secrets. I want to ask him what his definition of a friend is because friends don’t keep secrets frm each other. I know his answer though. He will say a friend is someone who accepts him as he is, without judgement. As he is?! I told him that his prior participation on casual sex websites is disgusting and that he should stay away frm my young niece (a minor) and that she may be in danger frm him. Yes, i was trying to wound him. Yet that’s what he expects- no judgement. Whatevs. I sometimes like him. I sometimes hate the bastard.

      2. Noname says:

        “I’m just getting confused HG after hearing noname’s story. Frm her example, it sounds like there is hope to have a relationship or friendship with a narc.”

        That’s why I’ve always tried to write my comments here in the “neutral” manner, Jenna. I don’t want to give a HOPE to anyone. And now I’ve got a confirmation of it. HOPE. I don’t want to give a FALSE hope to anyone. What works for me, doesn’t works for others.

        Listen to what Tudor says. He does really good job showing his internal world to all of you. His blog and books are priceless. Do as he says. Heal themselves. Create your happiness. Be happy. You all can do it. You all deserve it.

        And I, I need to go. Good bye.

        1. Indy says:

          Hi Noname,

          Your views do fascinate me and I hope you stay a while. (If you do not mind me picking your brain a bit, in a kind gentle way of course). I agree with your advice to others and I am glad you are not trying to give hope to others as your situation is exceedingly rare. It does make me think of the situation that Sam Vaknin has with his wife of 13 years. Is your greater a cerebral type?


        2. jenna says:

          Pls do come back soon noname.

    2. A.R. says:

      OmG!!! Your insights or medical training leave me breathless. It would have taken me far more years to realize the balance on both sides. Thank you for sharing this.
      My perception will be forever altered. Positively!

    3. Jann Cabot says:

      Borderlines do. And they’re just another kind of Narc. All Narcs crave Narcissistic Supply in the form of attention, sex, power, etc.. The favorite fuel depends on the person, but it’s all the same.

  21. Aurora says:

    But how do you know if we are really empathetic? What’s roulette without a gun? What’s a “relationship” without the chaos? How do you know we really love you? In this day in age, people can’t distinguish between love and lust. Humans are so distracted by ones with familiar knowledge. You were not born a sociopath or psychopath, otherwise, you wouldn’t be looking for fuel. Did she like that power and that vacant look in your eyes? Did you open that sanctuary in her? Or just that wave of emotions? Did you let your guard down an inch that first night and make it rise 10 times taller that morning? Humans are the bane of evil. Did you give her that condescending smirk? Her pretending she doesn’t see it? Do you get a thrill as the bullets fly at her and she still walks to you? Pledging and pleading her love to you? Do you laugh like Jared Leto’s “Joker”. All the Harley Quinns you make. Fascinating.

    “Every time I close my eyes, it’s like a dark paradise…”

  22. June says:

    One more question (hey, you said to ask :D)…

    If you suspect someone you know is a narcissist, should you tell them?

    I ask because my younger brother, at 14/almost 15 years old, seems on the cusp of self-awareness. Like he knows something, if not exactly what it is.

    For example, last week he woke me up in the middle of the night to boast about how he verbally humiliated this kid who disagreed with him about something, and told me he was planning to destroy him utterly (socially, of course). I groggily asked why-why does he hate that kid so much that he wants to ruin his life over something so minor? His answer was…interesting to say the least. There was a long pause, then he said it was like his job, like something he had to do. It seemed to be a labor of love-he was laughing and delighting in this kid’s downfall like it was Christmas Day.

    Also, we had one honest conversation, after something he said REALLY hurt my feelings enough that I was refusing to talk to him. He didn’t actually apologize for anything, but he did sort of explain the need to ALWAYS be right and the constant putting me down. He said he wanted to be “The Best” (his words), but since he logically couldn’t be at everything, he acted like he was by acting like his mistakes never occurred and instead drawing the attention to the faults and mistakes of others.

    I’m not sure how he would react though (he can get pretty dang vicious when he feels insulted). I’m also uncertain if this is something that a person has to discover for themselves, like how you can’t tell someone that YOU think they are gay.

    On the other hand, telling him could be really helpful for him, and he might want to know. I assume you’re glad that you’re aware of what you are. And if so, it seems kind of selfish to keep my suspicions to myself.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      No. See the articles No ! You Are The Narcissist Parts One to Three

  23. Ali says:

    there is never any acceptable reason to treat another human being as unequal, as dirt or an object like an old shoe to be discarded.

    my view is not one-sided as I am entirely open-minded enough to consider your point, however the very fact that your kind condones this behavior without considering the other side and only acting with a misplaced sense of entitlement says enough right there.

    why should your side of over-inflated egotism and misplaced entitlement win this “debate”? There is no debate, in fact. Just your kind playing mind games.

    here is a statement your kind does not understand and never will…

    I have all the same rights you do, even if you do not believe so.

    here is another one:

    you narcs may be different, yes, but you are simply over-spoiled, hissy-fitting children with no concept of anyone or anything outside yourself. You have not matured. you seek revenge like small children who know no better and have not learned to share your toys or take responsibility for your own actions.

    you seek us out, you cause wounds and damage to make yourselves feel superior, to prove to yourselves you are better… we are the strong ones. we are the decent ones. you hate us for this. you torture us because we are everything you hide from, everything you refuse to become because you falsely believe you would cease to exist instead of becoming something else. You fear change.

    I will tell you this: If all that your kind is is right then I would prefer to be wrong every time. I would chose to love deeply, to cherish the people in my life, to do what is right. every. single. time.

    and if it means getting wounded by those who for some reason chose to not have a heart, then I will still love for everything I am worth and still be a light in darkness where and when it is needed. If only because I do not wish any of what I’ve gone through to anyone.

    1. Very well stated!

  24. superxena says:


    -Yes,I understand now that he was of a different kind than me.
    -Yes,I understand now he had different needs and feelings than me.
    -Yes, I understand he functioned at a completely level than mine.
    -No,I do not want to analyse more since I know now why he behaved
    the way he did.
    -No,I am not looking sympathy for the things he did to me.
    -No,I don’t care to determine if what he did to me was sometimes good or bad..or if he was good or evil . That is not important anymore …what is important to me is the realisation that he was bad for me and that I didn’t want to stay.
    -No,I am not wasting more time wondering why,how,when ,if he did this or that to me. I am investing my time instead on myself.
    -No, this is not about him anymore,but about me.
    -No,I don’t want him back in my life anymore because he wasn’t ,he hasn’t and he will NEVER BE GOOD for me.
    -Yes I am moving forward because this time is all about me and not about him anymore.

    And these are exactly the reasons why I left him…and these are the reasons why he will never be allowed in my life ever again …and these are the reasons why I will continue learning and doing whatever is needed to rise my tower so high so he can’t reach me anymore
    Enough is enough…

  25. DLS says:

    It doesn’t work, better, it works to a point then it stops, because when we put ouselves in your shoes, which we, in fact, do, we reach a point in which for the comunication to move forward you need to put yourself in our shoes as well, but you don’t.

    We can’t stay in your shoes forever. We need to step out to go after our own needs, every once in a while, or we will stop functioning, to use your rethoric.

    So we go back to the original problem: you and your ability to compromise which is non existent.

    The deal break happens here, when we can’t go on anymore and ask you to come towards us but you don’t so we must leave or open a crisis that will lead to the break.

    Alone we replenish then you come back again, we get involved again because we feel better, then you drain us again and we must stay away. On and on and on and on.

    As expected my toy boy is withdrawing. I think he reached out to me to put me back in his closet. I am his property therefore I must stay within reach, in case he feels like talking to me or do whatever he wants with me. He said something about some consequences of this mystical fault of mine….always back to this secret, unspoken guilt I have, for which I must pay.
    My problem is that it turns me on to be treated like an object………he makes me feel like he owns me and I like it.
    I must think about this and understand why I feel this way, or I will never be happy.

  26. Sillyolperson says:

    Dear Mr Tudor, interesting article!
    From my perspective, most of we empaths, had no idea of what a narcissist was. All I ever knew was, a narcissist was someone who loved himself a lot more than the norm, self centered, you know the drill, someone we can handle. We didn’t realise you came with a “set of steak knives”!
    It takes years and years of study at university to complete a degree in psychology or psychiatry, to learn the behaviours of humans, which we normal loving people don’t have! Your expectations of us is extremely and abnormally high. Perhaps, if you introduced yourselves as “per say”, we could accommodate…… or not !

  27. June says:

    I’m not sure if I’m doing a very accurate job of it, but your website definitely does help me try. So, thank you.

    I have a couple questions though…

    (1) You mentioned that you’re a sociopath as well as a greater narcissist. So I assume your behavior is different in some ways than the “garden-variety” greater narcissist. How? Is higher cognitive function and self-awareness inevitably linked to active malice to the degree you described in the description of the greater narcissist? Does you being sociopathic in addition make your “active malice” quotient higher than average?

    (2) About narcissists and change…I understand that it is probably impossible in the sense that many people intend the phrase, as in, “stop being a narcissist.” And from what you’ve described, that need for negative fuel that causes so many of the destructive tendencies is basically a requirement for life, they/you can’t just decide to give it up. But is it possible to control and channel those tendencies enough so that it is possible to have a mutually happy long-term relationship? Like, for example, if you’re in need of some negative fuel, getting it from some obnoxious a-hole at the gym who needs to be taken down a peg rather than going home and tormenting your family?

    This would probably not be applicable to lesser narcissists, I assume, who quite frankly seem to lack the intelligence necessary to even understand their own needs, never mind control them. And greater narcissists, despite their self-awareness, seem very susceptible to the “I mean I could change, but why would I want to?” line of thought.

    But saying it’s not only difficult but completely impossible for narcissists to function in a semi-nondestructive way seems strange to me, because it’s so at odds with what we know about other mental conditions. As a personal example, I have Asperger’s Syndrome (it’s a form of high-functioning autism). I will always be pretty terrible at in-person social interaction, and always will have some strange behaviors and quirks, but over the years I’ve learned to function well enough that I can go to school and make a friend (or even two!) and someday graduate college and get a job that allows me to be an asset to society rather than a burden upon it.

    Thanks so much for answering! The answer to the second question in particular will be a great help in understanding and dealing with someone I’m very close to.

  28. Hannah says:

    When I think about things from this perspecitve, it feels better. In some ways, it’s scapegoating, but when he says mean things or acts a certain way, I feel much more empowered by just shrugging it off as the way he has to act to survive, not taking it to heart and analyzing it. I used to stonewall rather than give him the emotion he wanted but now I react naturally because I know it’s what he needs. If he withdraws, I give him space because he needs to play this game to survive. He always comes back because, again, it’s necessary to keep the actions going. I do love him and want to help him and since there is no changing, I might as well just give him what he truly needs.

  29. XoXo says:

    Is this why I usually jumped to the wrong conclusion with your kind? What I thought was so logical and sometimes I was just so wrong. I went NC because I just did not believe anything I was told any more.

  30. kylie says:

    Yeah you stupid cunts… should have worked it out years ago… oh yeah you did then you doubted yourself… ha your and asshole HG thanks for the reminders.

    1. lynnyrn says:

      Huh? What are you referring to? Who are you calling c@nts? Maybe I missed something previous, and I apologize first if I did. I don’t about others, but my individual experience with the relationship that I had that with this man that made me seek some answers here with some actual insight, does not deserve or appreciate that term. Actually, in most contexts I don’t.
      While HG Tudor’s writings are often difficult at times to process, you will be hard pressed to find accurate information from those who have no insight of their personality disorder. Ever read a really good book you couldn’t put down? There is talent within his writings. Get mad, but dont call those hurting names.

    2. Jody Allen says:

      PSST Kylie:
      Name Calling is the most ridiculous and childish way to try to get your point across. Name calling makes you look completely uneducated and dismisses the validity of your argument…
      Besides,I’ve been called a Cunt so many times that it feels more like a term of endearment. However, there are some people who may be a little more sensitive to the use of such belittling words and you should at least try to be aware of that and have some respect before you post..unless that was your intention all along?
      A True Queen doesn’t tear other Queen’s down, they adjust other Queen’s crowns.
      Thought I would try to point that out to you for future reference.

      1. Angel Ledet says:

        To me that is the ABSOLUTE WORST curse word there is! The cut down to beat all other ones! So, after reading that sentence, the rest of your comments were meaning less to me!
        Seems you may be looking for Fuel yourself! Unhappy with myself for giving you some but thought this might help someone else!

    3. superxena says:

      Kylie…Just wondering why don’t you canalise your hatred and anger into more productive things for you instead of offending and insulting in such a way? Don’t you realise that you are taken for exactly what you just have written?

    4. jenna says:

      Kylie, why are you here if you’re going to call HG an a-hole? You’re obviously reading the information that he gives away for free, so in return the least you can do is pls have some respect.
      Btw, your last sentence gramatically makes no sense.

    5. Twilight says:


      Interesting comment, how does it make you feel to tell people they are stupid *** ? You should have work things out?
      Maybe your angry at the world, maybe at yourself and flipping it makes you feel better then owning up to your responsibility of the choices you have made. A choice is nothing more then a learning process, letting it own you vs you owning it can make a difference.
      I don’t know you, your story or why you have chosen to Say what you have and call HG what you have.
      One thing is for sure, your angry. If you have been entangled it is understandable for this anger. The way you have chosen to express this anger thou…..what you chose to water will be what grows with in.

      Anger breeds hatred, which brings destruction
      Love breeds peace, which brings growth

      HG thou is providing knowledge that is unattainable anywhere else.

      Knowledge is power, the choice is yours.

  31. lynnyrn says:

    That was one thing I never did until I came here. I never said a word to anyone besides what I wrote to myself. I must have known why I couldn’t even at my happiest. Everything I ever felt was only endured alone. From sitting at floor of the shower drowning out my tears. Who wants something that gets under skin and makes you shake to your core stop. Of course, what other option did I think there was other than to love in denial. Who wants to let that once in a lifetime feeing go?? Drives a woman, (or man), or crazy.

    Actually could concentrate at work tonight. Thank you, HG. Information has been valuable.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome.

  32. jenna says:

    The book ‘Fuel’ was my 2nd book of HG Tudor’s. It is so detailed and well explained. Many narc behaviors became clear.

    However, HG, you really put empaths on a high horse don’t you?
    “This is because you are ruled by order and the need to understand. It is woven into your DNA…” etc.
    Until i see the number of aging parents in nursing homes decrease, and until i see pple attending to their own parents in loving homes rather than throwing them in nursing homes, i will have to suggest that you take empaths off their high horse. Elderly abuse in nursing homes is an undeniable truth and it is despicable that ’empaths’ can put their own parents in a position that renders them susceptible. Of course, if the parents were abusive this does not apply.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      The people placing those people in care homes are not necessarily empathic individuals, have you considered that? Moreover, to suggest that somebody who is empathic and knows that abuse is happening in a care home would place their parent in said care home, is laughable. Firstly, next to nobody knows that the abuse is going on before they place a relative in a care home and secondly, if an empathic person did know, they wouldn’t put them in the care home. Whilst elder abuse does occur, there are more people in care homes who are not abused, than are abused.

      1. jenna says:

        HG, i do not in any way wish to contradict your authority. But since you’ve stated in the ‘about’ section that you enjoy a debate, my opinion on the matter follows. Please refer to the following article.

        “Reports of serious, physical, sexual and verbal abuse are ‘numerous’ among the nation’s nursing homes, according to a congressional report released today.
        The study, prepared by the minority (Democratic and Independent) staff of the Special Investigations Division of the House Government Reform Committee, finds that 30 percent of nursing homes in the United States — 5,283 facilities — were cited for almost 9,000 instances of abuse over a recent two-year period, from January 1999 to January 2001.”

        Since elderly abuse in nursing homes is a documented risk, and since it is every person’s duty to research risks vs benefits before placing a loved one in any institution (kids at daycares included), the responsibility falls upon the adult child to do so. So if the empath doesn’t know it’s happening, in my humble opinion, it is his/her duty to research before taking action, and learn if it’s happening. The information is readily available online.
        Though it is anecdotal evidence, in my experience, i’ve seen many empaths place their parents in nursing homes. They barely visit, and the parent sits looking out the window for hours waiting for a visit frm a family member. In the meanwhile, the empath is busy volunteering at charity drives etc.
        I’ve volunteered at nursing homes in the past, and the lengths of time that elders are calling for help, left suffering in an uncomfortable position with bed sores etc. is unbelievable. It had me crying. At least i was able to help them while i was there, though that was not my job as a volunteer.
        Perhaps there are more elders in care homes that are not abused than are abused, but If there is even a 1% chance that parents can be abused, i would refuse to take that chance. However, the percentage is higher than 1% from statistics.
        Again, no disrespect here at all. I am just stating my point of view. Everyone differs. Thank you HG.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Around the time period you refer to, there were 1.5 million people in care homes in the US. 9 000 instances of abuse out of 1.5 million people is 0.6%. Bear in mind that some of those instances of abuse may well have occurred more than once to the same person thus the percentage would fall further. Of course, the number of instances will be under reported for a variety of reasons, but even if the true number was tenfold that reported, that still only equates to 6%.

          Therefore the risk of being abused is extremely unlikely.

          So, the empath who has a job and children to care for,a home to run and a life to lead has a choice – do I place an elderly relative in an environment which will provide them with the needed support and care from specialists with an extremely low risk of elder abuse or do I try to care for them, when I do not have adequate time to do so, wherein the risk of abuse will also be next to nil (the empath would not abuse their elderly relative) but the risk of them falling without anybody being able to help, or not eating properly, or staying hydrated, or unable to reach the bathroom etc would be far higher because they have those care needs but the empath is unable to discharge them because of their other commitments? It is an obvious and logical choice.

          Your anecdotal experiences are tainted through emotional thinking and therefore unreliable as a sound basis for decision making.

          Accordingly, the evidence is less than 1% from statistics. (The 30% figure is just a way of framing the information to be more headline grabbing. One nursing home has many residents and if just one is abused once in one year, that nursing home is counted as a home where abuse takes place even though hundreds of residents were not abused. That is akin to saying crime takes place in 100% US States – of course it does, but that does not mean those states are overrun by crime.) If you refuse to take the chance based on a risk of 1% of something happening then you must not do anything at all – you have a greater risk of an accident at home, getting run over in the street, choking on food etc.

          1. jenna says:

            I do not suggest leaving an aging parent at home alone while an empath is busy with her life. Hiring a care worker can be an option. Frm my experience and frm the experience of a few medical
            students i spoke with who were doing clinical rotations in nursing homes, it is quite upsetting. They both ended up quitting the rotation because it was that unbearable to witness on a daily basis.
            Having said that, i will quietly leave this debate now because you and your points are superior in every way.

          2. Indy says:

            Hi Jenna,
            I too have witnessed what you describe Jenna. When my mother was alive she worked as a CNA in nursing homes (3 different ones in New England). She did this type of work for years and as a little child I would go and visit the people there. Sure, there are wonderful caregivers, though what I and my mother witnessed was a lot of neglect, especially with residents that did not have family nearby or not checked on frequently. My mother made me promise to never put her in one. She died at home with me, she had 4 years of cancer and kidney failure. I am glad I was able to do this. We had nurses visit. She died young though.

            Now, on the flip side, I see HGs point too. If the person cannot provide good care at home, then the risks at home are the same. I would also say that no one should feel bad for having to use a nursing home. It’s hard to prevent the abuses, though researching and references help some. I think this is actually a very pertinent topic, given that many people here have had toxic parents growing up. The guilt for some is intense, and I cannot imagine having to make that decision. It’s opportunity for more wounding for the adult child. I know that was not part of the argument here, just wanted to make a point that ACoNs sometimes may have to deal with this dilemma and hopefully they are not guilted by the decision.

            My son told me he would never put me in a home. However, when he is 70, I’ll be 88. I often joke with him that we both will be at the nursing home, with my grandson laughing like that little cartoon evil baby, Stewie 😂 (Joke)

          3. jenna says:

            Indy, i am sorry your mother died young from cancer and kidney failure. It is very caring of you to have had her at home with you, with the assistance of nurses. Stories like these move me greatly. You have posted about some not so positive incidences in your childhood in the past, yet you’ve grown into a kind, compassionate, understanding, diplomatic person. I have much respect for you.

          4. Indy says:

            Hi Jenna,
            Thank you for your kind words.
            I have had lots of therapy, LOL.
            And, I will say this, those final years were a blessing for me, because it led to healing. Not all people experience this with their parents. I was very lucky and this also informs me that they were not narcissists.

            My mother was severely abused as a foster child and had severe depression. This led to her being a less than adequate mother at times and other times physically abusive. And, with time, she grew. And I witnessed this and grew too. <3
            Like I said, I am lucky.

          5. jenna says:

            Sending you hugs indy.

          6. Indy says:

            Hugs back to you Jenna!

  33. horseyak says:

    You’re going to devalue us no matter what we do so why bother?

    1. Ruth says:

      I wish I could like this 100000X

  34. Stevie says:

    HG, as empaths, you know we love to make people feel special. It is our “fuel”. We do not change. If you are happy, I am happy. That is our curse.
    Why should we even attempt to live your way? To think so irrationally about another person’s journey through life seems so draining and exhausting.
    To hold someone back from their goals and life achievements is a bizarre focus.
    Just thinking about having to do the things a narcissist does to be on top is disturbing to me.
    My self esteem would reach a low that I couldn’t deal with. It would have to.
    You couldn’t get ahead of me without smearing my name? You must be weak. You knew you couldn’t compete honestly so you have to resort to abuse? Would a narcissist be concerned that someone much more worthy of me will come along if I kept my smile and natural charm? Of course they would.
    Without the games a narcissist plays, they haven’t got a snowballs chance in hell in competing with me. I guess they know that and that’s why I am so envied.
    You seem jealous of our support groups.
    Don’t be.
    It’s good to gather information from many different resources. That’s what keeps us attached to reality. It gives us a mental freedom to piece things all together using our own independent thinking skills.
    I know, your kind hates this.
    It will be ok.
    You are my number one for knowledge on this topic but you know how my kind operates. I am a fact checker who needs the perspective of others experiences to get the bigger picture.
    I also enjoy seeing the people in the support groups dig themselves out of the dark prison of the narcissist and head towards the warmth of the sun.
    I dont know them personally but it is an amazing thing to read their first post about what brought them there and watch each post progress in to someone stronger.
    Can you even imagine what that feels like?

    1. Jody Allen says:

      You truly are an inspiration. Thank you for your words.

  35. Tyanna Marie says:

    Did he ever rreally love me in all these 4 years? He had a cycle caused by excuses that made him leave me, over and over. I would always chase him and fight for him. It felt like we were addicted to each other. Our passion was cosmic. Its been 2 months since he’s said anything, and he’s too busy to be with someone else. I adapted well to his lifestyle. I bet no one else would do that for him and his son, who is the same age as mine. I’m sick of this cycle. He said this was the last time, but…is it really?

    1. Tiny Dancer says:

      “I bet no one else would do that for him and his son, ”

      This really resonates with me and I hate to say it but there will be and probably have been others just as willing to go that “extra mile” for him. And if not, then he’ll always have you, too…

      Story; My N would triangulate with an ex-gf who still carried a very big torch for her but the way she did it was to always be available to “help”.

      Once early on when N and I were fighting and I said “but no one will ever love you the way I do” I flashed to this woman who’d been treated so poorly and yet still couldn’t let go and thought she may very well love N more than me.

      I never said those words again and made no attempt to do anything “better” than this ex no matter what all she did.

      My N married me.

      Lucky me lol but this poor woman is still carrying that torch. Called my N on her wedding day to see if my N would reconsider.

      My unsolicited advice? Make it the last time and go no contact.

      1. Mercy says:

        Wow tiny dancer, makes you wonder who won in your situation. Sometimes I wonder what the other girl has that I don’t. Obviously stronger fuel which equals more pain. No one wins.

    2. It will never be the last time, until YOU make it so; until YOU realize that no contact is your only way to sanity.

    3. Jann Cabot says:

      Nope. He never loved you. Narcs can’t love. They are incapable of human bonding.

  36. Questions keep coming to mind. In spiritual studies, we are told to remove ourselves from the emotion. To be the observer out of the emotions to view the situation at hand. Curious that you are a constant in this place of the observer, and do you ever try and place yourself In the perspective of the emotion? I am so intrigued with what I’m learning. Thank you, again.

  37. I am intrigued ever more so by this post. I want to say how correct you are.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I think you just did. Thank you.

  38. Jody Allen says:

    I have stepped into your shoes a million times and sympathized. I’ve ripped my own heart out and tried to fix you. I’ve held your orphaned, abandoned and frightened child close to my heart until your ripped him away in fury and shame…and blame at me because you let your guard down and let me see him. I have poured endless love from my bottomless well into a vessel that can never be filled..I have let you use me and hurt me as I turned the other cheek and kept trying to show you what love could be. I changed and transformed into someone so far away from the woman who I once was and still that never made you happy.
    You ended up hating and resenting and bored with the creature that you and I created in me, while I never asked you to change.
    I Am compassion, I Am good, I gave all and then dug down and found more to give to you…and it never was enough.
    Maybe I no longer need to understand why you do what you do
    Maybe I have found that I already have the answers and I’ve had them all along…I know who and what you are..Therefore I know who and what I am…I am the Antithesis of You.

    1. Carolyn says:

      This is the clearest message I’ve seen and I felt such clarity upon reading it, I felt it and understood it completely. Thank you 👌🏼

      1. Jody Allen says:

        Thank you for your kind reply.
        My post was written in a moment of clarity, where I felt a little stronger and not like such a crazy woman. However, I’m all over the place on this blog with a gamut of emotions, from strong, to weak, from begging to be put out of my misery, to the realization the he was the cause of my misery.
        Unfortunately, this is what thè aftermath of a relationship with a Narcissist looks like.
        If you read H.G’s article: The See Saw (one of my personal favorites) you begin to see what his part of the game is.
        This article is very on point and helped me understand why, even in the aftermath, I’m up and down and all over the place. I’m still programmed to seek the high and feel anxious at the low point.
        Im not certain of your situation, but, if you are in here I bet I can best advice: Keep reading, keep listening keep writing and asking. Everyone here is very kind and will answer your questions or support you when you need to vent.
        Much Love to You ♡

  39. Coco says:

    Absolutely. I am not a victim Not more than he was entirely a villian. I was a Co-creator in a dance of dysfunction. I looked externally for something he was not capable of giving and he took what he desperately needed and I so willingly gave. It was the greed for fuel that ruined it…

  40. Janice says:

    Still don’t understand why you need fuel. Why can’t you just be content with yourself? Maybe you should try self-reflection or better yet, ask one of “us” or”our kind” to enlighten you on how to do that.Go ahead, I dare you. Don’t say I never gave you a chance.

    (All your other blogs were helpful…this one didn’t clarify anything for me.)

    1. Indy says:

      Hi Janice,
      Reading his book Fuel may help as well as some of his other pieces on fuel on this site. It is confusing to those of us that do not function the same way.

      I think (my guess) his kind rely on fuel (reactions from others) because of the emptiness inside, reduced sense of self identity…only by others reactions do they feel confirmed of their power and existence. This reduced internal identity is a key part of many cluster B personality disorders, including BPD and naturally NPD. Thus, the seeking of external validation.

      As a child of a narcissist/abuser, I am guessing HG’s mother sucked every bit of his sense of self out of him and did not allow it to fully develop, like an energy vampire. The only love he knew was an emotional reaction from her or others. Otherwise, he is invisible and nonexistent. He was made to crave other people’s reactions to him, for other people’s validation of his existence (positive or negative). It is similar to having to achieve great things to feel one’s worth (similar dynamic, though not exactly the same. I went through that kind of thing personally, I felt love only by my achievements. I am learning more how to not do that.).

      However, the part I still question is his taste for negative emotional responses (negative fuel). I have never liked negative attention myself. Some people like to know they can press other people’s buttons and get a rise from others. Control. Power. Externalization of the self.

      Yes, internal reflection is something they do not relish much. I think HG refers to us that do this as “navel gazers”, hehe. Mindfulness practice could certainly assist with this kind of exploration. I do wonder if his therapists have talked with him about the use of mindfulness. It is more powerful than people realize and if done wrongly can be harmful to those with trauma. If done well, it is amazingly powerful and healing.

      Good questions, Janice.

      1. White_rabbit says:

        The negative fuel…maybe it’s about the drama right?negatuve fuel only comes out when there is a drama

      2. Samantha says:

        Your explanation helped a lot to be able to understand what he was trying to say. With my ex he needed constant attention and it was easier for him to be negative and get negative responses than doing work and getting positive attention. This really explains a lot, thank you both.

    2. Jann Cabot says:

      Because psychopaths are mentally ill. That’s like asking a quadriplegic to run a marathon. The ability isn’t there. Narcs are also incapable of self-reflection. That brain circuitry just doesn’t exist.

      There’s really no need to engage in dialog with a Narc. Just identify them, and then either avoid them, or eliminate them. Everything else is just wasted energy. They can’t be cured. It’s a terminal illness.

  41. robyn says:


    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome.

  42. I see this as logical effective thinking… however you harm people with intent, yes? But, you will say we harm you first by your perception of “wounding”…. at amy rate, well written piece of literature… makes one think

    1. The parallax says:

      No, not with intent. Harm is in the eye of the beholder. To each action there is a story. Ours simply is different from yours.

      1. C★ says:

        I realize it is different however harm IS done with intent durring devaluation and malign hoovers

  43. you must be kidding…
    our kind does not understand what the fuck that fuel you’re talking about on and on is! we do not understand there is another kind out there with special needs..
    are you serious?

  44. Hope says:

    HG, do you ever just get bored of someone and basically forget about her & move on – without consciously thinking of it as an orchestrated discard?

    1. HG Tudor says:


  45. lizbeth says:

    good point I may try.

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