The Married Target
“Nuns and married women are equally unhappy,” so said Queen Christina of Sweden.
I have not (yet) targeted a nun although I would readily claim to have done so, since an entertaining tale would surely be attached to such an endeavour. It is a different story with regards to married women.
Our kind often target married women and men for the purposes of seducing them, causing them to engage in an affair with us and cause us to put asunder that matrimonial union.
Why do we target those who are married? Given that our kind generally prefer to be pushing on an open door when it comes to the question of seduction and the fact that we like to conserve energy, why we would pick a target which is already with somebody else? Not only are they with someone else but they are married, joined together by ceremony and therefore this coupling has become elevated to the ultimate statement of commitment and therefore ought to be regarded as unassailable.
- Entitlement. The world is ours and that includes all those within it. We want therefore we should get.
- Lack of boundary recognition Nothing is off limits to us. The institution of marriage is one we respect for the purpose of the facade but otherwise it means nothing to us ( The Narcissist and Marriage ).
- Lack of accountability. We might be labelled as a marriage spoiler and home wrecker but what do we care? It won’t be our fault because our narcissistic perspective automatically causes us to advance reasons as to why we have done nothing wrong – “He obviously wasn’t happy otherwise why he did he leave?”
- Triangulation. A favoured manipulation of ours which allows for contrast, the creation of drama, pitting parties against one another and of course two fuel streams.
- Magical thinking. This includes the triangulation and lack of accountability as we regard ourselves as actually doing a good thing. We are the White Knight riding in to rescue the damsel in distress or the Angelic Soul tending to the downtrodden man. As is often the case we will portray ourselves as the rescuer – at least to begin with.
- Omnipotence. Seducing someone single, anybody we choose and of course succeeding, shows how effective we are. Steal that person away from a partner, our power is even greater. Pluck them from a marriage? How mighty are we to be able to do that?
- Malice. The cuckolded individual might be someone who has mortally offended us and by stealing something so precious as their spouse, then that allows the delivery of sweet revenge on this transgressor.
- Confirmation of empathic traits. A married person is clearly a love devotee. They will be honest and decent because they agreed to this statement of commitment. They subscribe to the institution of marriage which will indicate a good moral compass. They will be caring since they have agreed to be with another in this environment and that means they will share resources, tend for that person when upset or ill and so forth.
- Confirmation of residual benefits. It is highly likely that this individual, being part of a domestic set-up will engage in earning a wage, DIY, cooking, cleaning, tending for the other person and similar tasks which tells those of our kind who prioritise those matters that these are residual benefits which are ready to be conveyed on us. There may even be property and financial advantages to sequestrate post divorce.
- Fuel. By turning the head of this dazzling exotic creature which is locked in a gilded cage, he or she will be grateful, joyous and ecstatic to be freed and of course the recipient of all this positive fuel will be us, the glorious rescuer. Throw in the negative fuel of the bested spurned spouse and it is a fuel frenzy.
Accordingly, the fact that somebody is married signals to us that there are many benefits and our mind set sees this individual as an entirely viable target.
However, might there be concerns also? I am sure various questions have already formed in your mind as to why we might not regard a married person as a viable target. This may include.
- Why choose someone who is already with somebody else? Surely that requires more effort to lure them away?
- Is it not the case that Lesser and Mid-Ranger Narcissists are more likely to be deterred from hoovering when their former Intimate Partner Primary Source (“IPPS”) have a new parter post escape/dis-engagement? Does this not apply when seeking a target?
- Are we not concerned about reprisals from the target’s spouse, family and friends?
- Are we not concerned our facade may be damaged by such behaviour which society generally frowns on?
- Would we not be perturbed that if this person can be stolen away from another that that means they will do the same to us at some point?
- If someone is willing to cheat on their partner, are they as empathic as we want them to be?
Fair questions. Taking them in turn.
- Yes, it will require more effort but our sense of entitlement, unshakeable belief in our brilliance and moreover the rewards that await us mean this effort is worthwhile. Keep in mind that as we are targeting this person we will usually be devaluing our own IPPS an therefore there is plenty of negative fuel to hand to power the seduction of this newly acquired target. We are not in any rush to secure them (our IPPS is not looking to escape and the conditions for dis-engagement have not yet been met).
- That consideration is certainly applicable when applied to the Follow-Up Hoover but this is a Seduction Hoover and therefore the condition and context are entirely different. The fear of rejection is not one which is looming large.
- No. Our belief in our superiority pushes such a concern to one side. The Lesser will resort to physical violence if necessary. The Mid-Ranger will use this unwarranted (in his or her mind) attack to prove that he or she deserves pity and praise for doing the right thing in trying to set the poor spouse free from their “abusive tyrant”. The Greater will charm his way out of trouble or threaten his own far worse repercussions if anybody tries to get clever.
- This is a concern however it is overridden because whatever (unmerited) criticism may come our way for interfering in a marriage, we convince ourselves that it is justified and for the ‘greater good’. This person is unhappy, bored, abused and we are getting them out of there and if you were a real friend you would understand that and help me! (May as well manipulate the disapproving secondary source as well).
- Ha ha! Of course not, why on earth would they ever leave us after everything we have done for them? Don’t be stupid.
- This is an interesting question and one which merits its own article as to why do empathic people cheat? Suffice to state for the purposes of this piece, we regard their desire to cheat as a necessary ‘evil’ to escape the situation they are in/get to a better place with us and this is a temporary behaviour which will not affect their overall empathic nature.
Accordingly, with motivating factors in place and any potential concerns either not applicable or easily addressed, we commence our pursuit.
Why do we consider that this married target will succumb to our seduction? Leaving aside our belief in our irresistible qualities, our brilliance and magnetism there are a number of reasons why we see it as likely that these people will fall under our spell.
- The married targets we lock on to are of course of similar make-up to our targets who are single. Namely they have the relevant empathic, class and special traits as explained in Sitting Target: How and Why the Narcissist Chooses You . Moreover the people we target are susceptible to being drawn to our kind. They have an inherent vulnerability to our kind and being married does not mean this vulnerability has vanished.
- The married target may already be with one of our kind. Thus, whilst the Lesser and Mid-Range will not recognise this, they will instinctively have identified a person who is susceptible to them also AND will invariably be devalued (or is being devalued) and therefore allows the incoming narcissist to play the role of rescuer. It is the case that our kind will steal empaths from one another. The Greater Narcissist will of course recognise one of the brethren and use this to his advantage in spiriting away the empathic married target.
- The married target might actually be one of our kind and the Lesser and Mid-Range have not spotted one another. The married target is of course absolutely game for infidelity and whilst the outcome will be the relevant conclusion of a romantic collision between the relevant school of narcissist, the fact that the married target is a narcissist means that the coupling is going to occur.
- We see how people’s lives become humdrum and monotonous. We do not recognise the deep-seated bond between two people because we are incapable of attachment ourselves. We do not pay heed to the stability that some relationships acquire through the passage of time. What we see instead is someone who must be bored with the same routine (because of course we become bored easily and therefore judge others in a similar vein) but our magical thinking means they cannot possibly become bored with us. Whilst we may not play the abuse card, we still see this person as stuck in a rut, fed-up, in need of spice and adventure and of course as the dazzling whirlwind that we are, we arrive and provide that all. Who could fail to be excited by such a marvellous array of glitter, gold and garnish?
- People always have something to complain about with regard to their spouse. He isn’t romantic any more, she has let herself go, we never do anything together, she just wants to watch television, he won’t show any interest in what I do, he insists on going fishing every weekend, he snores and it drives me nuts and so on. Whether it is significant or trivial, we will count on these facts and uncover them and use them to our advantage. We will heighten our attractiveness based on this (for instance asking you all about your interest in 18th century literature) and denigrate the spouse’s unattractive trait (i wouldn’t go fishing if I could go to the theatre with you instead). Of course this is just part of the lying and mirroring that we do.
- Our split thinking will automatically paint your spouse as the villain of the piece. His concern about where you are is painted as him trying to control you. His friendly demeanour with other women is evidence of his flirtatious nature. Our insidious techniques drip feed dissent and play with your mind. We dangle the golden carrot in one hand and pump toxic lies over your spouse with the other, looking to steadily tip the scales in our favour.
- We will readily invent tales of your spouse’s supposed misdemeanours and/or manufacture them. A Lieutenant will be sent to flirt with your husband and we will provide you with footage to show their entanglement (of course we remove the part where your husband tell here where to go). Another Lieutenant will be sent to get your wife drunk or slip drugs into her handbag for you to find later, ramping up our suggestions that she is selfish and tripping the light fantastic whilst you stay at home looking after the children. Why are you putting up with that when you could leave and be with someone who really appreciates you?
- Everybody has their price. Nobody is immune and above being manipulated into a position whereby they are seduced by us. Yes, some may take longer than others, but combine the target’s susceptibility, the fact they may be in a difficult relationship, the fact they may be bored or lonely, the fact we are exciting and invigorating, the fact we will manipulate the battlefield so it is always in our favour and you have a situation where it is impossible for someone to resist us. We will secure our married target. Ultimately, if there are those who are impervious to our overtures, we won’t target them to begin with.
The dynamic of the married target and the narcissist also has to be addressed. We may see a ring on a finger of a person in a bar and opt to make them an Intimate Partner Tertiary Source by sleeping with them that night before they slink away to their spouse. We may never bother with them again, but fuel has been obtained, Thought Fuel gained thinking of the unseen spouse wondering where their wife or husband is and the ratification of our power achieved.
More often the married target becomes a Non Intimate Secondary Source. We worm our way in as a wonderful friend, but this is a mere staging post as we hurtle towards bedding them and making them an Intimate Partner Secondary Source. They may be a Dirty Little Secret, a colleague who we rut in the empty offices at work or who scurries away from their spouse under the pretence of attending the gym before meeting is in the back of our car in a shadowy car park. We may have no pressing need to make them our IPPS and therefore we are content to utilise that person as a Shelf IPSS, organising a night away together when he pretends he is on a business trip, or calling in to work on the basis of being unwell to spend an afternoon together. We may bring you into our world, letting you meet friends and family, seeing you intermittently, content to show you our enticing world and then place you on the shelf, leaving you longing for more, pining for us at weekends when you must be with your family and we are engaging with our own IPPS or a different IPSS.
We may hit the motherlode and realise you ought to be out IPPS and as our Candidate IPSS we go all out to smear your spouse, entice you and roll out all our dazzling illusions to show you that you need to leave him, be free and be yourself but with us. We will coax, cajole and entice, showing your the forbidden fruits and the liberation that awaits you at our supposedly benevolent rescuing hand. The more we smear your innocent spouse and the more we shower you with the love-bombing, your resistance will erode. Your emotional thinking will subsume your cool, hard logic as you become swept up in the moment and your emotional thinking cons you as it whispers to you
“You have been a wife and a mother for twenty years, never complaining, it is time you started living.”
“She just interested in sex anymore and you have needs, here is someone who makes you feel alive again.”
“She just takes you for granted. Here is someone who values you.”
“Yes he will be hurt if you leave but he will get over it. You deserve to be happy don’t you?”
Oh the excuses will come pouring and of course we will not dissuade you from thinking in this way. We will say and do whatever is needed to get what we want. Charming you and painting your spouse as evil, awful and selfish.
The simple fact is that all people are targets. Married targets are often even better targets.
169 thoughts on “The Married Target”
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It makes sense I guess. He didn’t have to worry so much about what I was doing. He always knew. I was tending to home, husband (who he thinks I’ve chosen him over) and 3 little kiddos. No time for anything else right. He got to play the role of fun and excitement with little to no effort. Not a bad deal for the narcissist I suppose.
Déjà vu…..does it mean anything that I made my narc wait until I left my ex before we became physical?
Could that be why our golden period was as short as it was?
Also, why would the golden period only be 3 lousy months if I were still in awe and pumping out positive fuel? And the worst part is that the good stuff was still coming until about this last year…
Re: Love and marriage….
A mask to cover the lie that we CAN ever have all of our needs met by one person.
Kind of an important correction to my previous post.
No old football players but just standing there on the field for a very long time?
After the initial seduction challenge, narcs have hated that i was attached because i would leave when they didn’t want me to and not be available when they demanded and my primary partner is successful. Those were all punishable offenses. That doesn’t mean they wanted ‘me’, just the control or to vent their frustrations and jealousy. The last one used a lot of silent treatments, disturbing devaluation around forced impregnation (and misogynistic) fantasies of total ownership, while being cold and distant. He was proud of being able to discard me, gave a lot of malign hoovering, but traveled to see me whenever i was available. The one before that, violence and stalking. They were very different and had different conditions, even though extreme/delusional narcissism was apparent.
A question HG Tudor…could a “master” narcissist remain in a relationship long term? I am talking at least 6 years +
Hello Claudia, depends on the nature of the relationship you are referring to. If the Formal Relationship – is it romantic, social, family etc?
A romantic relationship…..the primary source if you like
but the heart wants what the heart wants – Selena Gomez
The ugly truth is that people with very little real, substantial power and depth in themselves, can fake it and manipulate you. So naturally you give them more power than they have, because they hurt you, they become significant as you struggle to regain your self-worth, against them. The trick is not to struggle against them but nulify them and focus on yourself, because really they showed their hand, their own lack of self worth by being so ugly.
We can also externalise alot of our hard-to-grasp feelings and inner struggles onto others who provide us with points of conflict, and that too gives them significant meaning to us, even when the issues we need to be aware of, are within us alone. But mostly it’s about losing naivety and being stronger in your boundaries so you aren’t addicted to gaining acceptance through another, especially someone who de-values you. We all have to deal with having desires for intimacy, self-worth, boundaries and individuality, there aren’t easy solutions, but ignoring abuse so that the other person will be strong enough to be the person who can give you back the self-worth they degraded… is never going to work out. the worst thing about the people who abuse us, is how disappointing they really are.
Ava101
I cannot speak of sex expressing love and union and have certainly never heard a man speak on it. Its a given that Narcs use sex as a weapon and use it for power and control. The “fetishes” above appear to me to be more increasing attempts by the Narc to get them to violate their own boundaries. Not so much the specific act he is suggesting, but the fact that he can get them to do it, giving him superiority and control- but HG would be better to speak to that. It will never be enough because they get bored and will continue to push the Empaths envelope. There is also power on the Empath side in the exploration and assertion of their narcissistic traits. Wanting the be the favoured one, relishing having a secret life, controlling their partner by claiming love and remaining in the marriage while pursuing their own pleasures. Is it not narcky to think that you are the only one bored in the marriage and not your mate? If youre bored- they probably are too, but that wouldnt fly in most cases if the partner wanted others now would it? One post suggested that they could have sex with others and be watched but not watch their husband with another. That is all control and ego. I think you named it better when you said degradation and abuse (of both themselves and their partners) in these cases because despite their feeling that they are consenting, they are being subtlety and increasingly manipulated beyond their boundaries by convincing themselves they are participating in something reciprocal. I am not judging their right to engage in these activities, but is far from being about boredom or exploring things together. There is no “together” for a narc-only his/her pleasure. Sometimes in these instances it seems to me that they push the Empath to pursue their narcissistic traits until the Empath dims their empathic traits and becomes like the narc (but under their control). Then of course they are reminded that they hate themselves and reject the Empath (and will rehash all of the degrading things they wanted, and that you did to please them as reasons for devaluation).
I do not understand what people mean when they say “love”. Is love holding another hostage to a relationship while you pursue your own needs and deny them theirs? I thought that was self-serving, controlling, and narcissistic. I am all of those things-but I do not profess “love”.
Perfect analysis. Chapeau, NarcAngel.
NarcAngel,
This!!! So much this. He got off on the boundary pushing alone. Of course, much of it was all in “fantasy” online, so I don’t know why I felt violated in the sense that no physical violation happened. No actual convincing me to hook up with someone else in person, though I briefly considered it. No cross-dresser action happened. No assaulting his neighbor. We never set foot in each other’s homes. We never had sex in person though I thought about actually doing that. There was never a forced BJ (or any other kind). It still confuses the hell out of me how I feel degraded by something that was based in words and only 20 minutes in person of kissing and a little making out. How can I feel degraded by imaginary things?
Here’s the thing, he knew I had a history of being raped in college and that the thing with the massage therapist five years ago, but he also knew I had a fantasy to be submissive (with someone I could trust and NOT in a humiliating way). He used that fantasy to say he was “dominating” me when he would say something degrading like he wants me to find that massage therapist and fuck him. Yet, if I told him I felt humiliated, he said he was just indulging my fantasy and that he was just giving me what I want.
This is where I really struggle with having anger towards him. How can I feel emotionally raped when he barely ever touched me. And does he deserve that much anger or am I projecting my feelings about past events onto him? And it also feels like if I keep getting into situations where I feel like a victim, and if walking away hurt so much, there must BE a part of me that wants violation. This is how fucked up my head is.
Still processing things I guess.
Mary
Why would you find it a struggle having anger towards him? He used a traumatizing incident to manipulate and re-victimize you and then accused you of wanting it. Does he deserve that much anger? Who the fuck cares what he does or does not deserve? That is Empath emotional thinking and giving, over logic and self-preservation. He doesnt deserve to breathe. Your only responsibility is to you and what you think you deserve-he can rot. I dont know you or what your answer would be, but I think you deserve more than this shit was doing to you. You answered your own question-he didnt HAVE to touch you to emotionally rape you, but that is sure as shit what he did. Maybe start by not sharing intimate details about your life outside of a very closed and trusted circle. If he did that to someone you loved what would you tell them? I hope you are no contact. Keep coming here and reading and learning. You will see that you want more for yourself and that you can have it.
NarcAngel, 🙂
**I cannot speak of sex expressing love and union and have certainly never heard a man speak on it.**
I have.
Not all men are narcs. Or emotionally flat.
**Its a given that Narcs use sex as a weapon and use it for power and control.**
Absolutely. And as I had recently pointed out to someone – they cannot let go, not give themselves over, not experience anything else. Because of their fear. Which leads to control. (Just my humble opinion).
**The “fetishes” above appear to me to be more increasing attempts by the Narc to get them to violate their own boundaries.**
Yes. But this can also be the other way round. Whatever makes the other person being controlled, uncomfortable (in the widest sense) or simply disgusted at themselves. This can mean that the victim is NOT being subjected to pain, if he or she would like it. It could mean that they are forced to give pain, for example. Or something else more creative.
But this is the sad thing. Boundaries become overstepped very subtly fom the beginning (has HG has pointed out, too). So, in some cases, people may kind of “forget” what they had actually longed for when making love.
**Not so much the specific act he is suggesting, but the fact that he can get them to do it,**
I know this. All too well.
In addition, there is a kind of shift in reality – by engaging in acts one hadn’t dared thinking of before, one also uhm develops new desires. I’m just not sure if this happens in a “healthy” way, or if that is, what people really want, as its a kind of downward spiral. It is very easy to develop such a dynamic with someone who knows no boundaries, rules, or limits.
**There is also power on the Empath side in the exploration and assertion of their narcissistic traits. Wanting the be the favoured one, relishing having a secret life, controlling their partner by claiming love **
These are most definitely not empath traits. 🙂
**and remaining in the marriage while pursuing their own pleasures. Is it not narcky to think that you are the only one bored in the marriage and not your mate?**
Haha, you’re priceless as always! So, wouldn’t it be an empath thing to do to want to re-restablish intimacy, expression of love in a physical way, to re-establish trust, …? To spend their energy in finding ways to share this again? Or to talk about this together in an open discussion? To decide together what to do, how to carry on? Or, if there are unmet sexual desires – to express them at least?
**One post suggested that they could have sex with others and be watched but not watch their husband with another. That is all control and ego.**
Very true. 🙂 Very narc.
**I think you named it better when you said degradation and abuse (of both themselves and their partners) in these cases because despite their feeling that they are consenting, they are being subtlety and increasingly manipulated beyond their boundaries by convincing themselves they are participating in something reciprocal. I am not judging their right to engage in these activities, but is far from being about boredom or exploring things together.**
100 % what I meant.
**I do not understand what people mean when they say “love”. Is love holding another hostage to a relationship while you pursue your own needs and deny them theirs? I thought that was self-serving, controlling, and narcissistic. I am all of those things-but I do not profess “love”.**
I agree.
I am beginning to wonder about “love” myself, but I also realize that this is due to my narc experiences. I think as long as I remember and have an idea of a certain feeling, that it must be existing. But I must say that I know only one relationship where I would say that they really love each other. And guess what – the partner of my friend indeed did tell him that he should have sex with other people if he himself couldn’t meet his needs. But my friend then didn’t out of respect. Whatever that feeling is, a relationship is also a decision, a promise to someone. Freedom can therefore mean to be faithful to each other. Or to explore with other people, when this is the agreement.
When I was trying to have a friendship with my exnarc, I was thinking about love and especially “unconditional” love a lot. That unconditional part is more or less impossible, as giving up oneself is not love either. My Raja Yoga teacher said that true love exists only amongst brothers and sisters, meaning their spiritual brothers/sisters, and meaning platonic love, where the love the higher self (the ONE source / soul / whatever) comes first.
I just know that I didn’t like what soulless sex had made of me, and it did feel like degradation, step by step. When I have sex for the sake of it, I wouldn’t think of calling it “love” either. Two different things. When people can agree on this in a relationship – great.
***
The empath traits you describe above are a lot like my inverted narc mother (though I don’t think she ever had an affair ;D) – making herself the victim, controlling by “claiming love”. Hiding behind another person which is being blamed as the bad person, or the person making the decisions/ the responsible one: “he made me do it”. Everybody can enjoy whatever he or she wants to, and fulfill any desires they have, but I have trouble accepting false reasons and enjoying secrecy.
***
Your prime minister is visiting our country at the moment, have you seen the pictures? …
Hi Ava101
True, it is not always the Empath having things done to them that tests their boundaries. Sometimes they are “massaged” into causing an action to another that makes them uncomfortable. I have for example been repeatedly encouraged by some to punish them by making them be with another man (under the guise of it being for MY pleasure of course to alleviate them from any shame or guilt of being with another man). I have no issue with that but some would and they should not have to engage in that if it only pleases the partner. I have no issue with consenting adults engaging in whatever makes them feel good. But by consenting, I mean two people who understand this is about engaging in it with the same goal of pleasure (for both). Not pleasure through power of manipulation on one side and performing things that make one uncomfortable in order to please on the other side. That is what I read from the posts previous. Im sure there was pleasure (and yes you can be surprised to receive pleasure where you could not have imagined it) and I am all for exploring those things even if they seem strange to others. But not doing them under threat of having those actions be necessary to be able to continue on in the relationship or if by doing these things the “victim” secretly feels that they can further the relationship by pleasing the narc and kid themselves into thinking he cares for them or will develop feelings for them. I wonder if women in those situations know deep down that it never can work out so that is the reason they keep the marriage partner on retainer so to speak, as Im not sure what they mean by they “love’ their partner. Outside looking in it seems like love=guilt in that sense.
In summary: Have all the fun you want but dont kid yourself-it is a dead end street with a narc. You are not building anything (certainly not a future that involves the victims feelings being considered). and it doesnt sound like the traditional idea bandied about as love that they are offering to their partne. I mean how generous that you could do as you please but still make room in your heart for that poor marriage partner that surely has no unfulfilled needs of their own? That is an label they are hoping to excuse their behaviour.
By you I dont mean you Ava.
These are only my opinions and observations. I do not state them as fact.
Yes, my boss is never in his office.
Narc angel…i agree with a lot of what you posted. Depending on an individuals situation you can love your spouse or partner and still look elsewhere to have your needs met. Is it morally right? No but many do it and they do love their spouses. I never envisioned myself ever being the person i am today but its been a learning process. Much im not proud of but i see why i am this way and its not an excuse its understanding what led up to it and why i feel the way i do. I struggle everyday with whats right and what im dealing with.
Narc Affair
The issue is not with the engaging of another. I have done the same and am not judging you or anyone one for that. My issue with it goes back to people justifying it with love. It trips off the tongue of many but without any actual definition. I thought people married or in a relationship deemed love as meeting each others needs. If you are going elsewhere then what is it that you refer to as love? You love that they are still home when you return from having your needs met? That you have them for company when the Narc is not around? You love having someone to help with household and finances while you are having your needs met elsewhere? You love that having your partner and being in a marriage publicly hides your shame that you enjoy being in a dysfunctional relationship (a facade really). You love that they allowed you the children that you love? What is this love that comes tripping off the tongue? What does it mean really? Tell me some things that show that you love your partner that does not come back to your needs. Maybe then I will be able to understand better why you stay married to a partner who does not meet your needs and prevent them from being with a person who does, instead of someone who is not meeting theirs by not being fully present in the marriage.
Do not mistake this as an attack on you personally Narc Affair. I am asking because you are in this position and have professed love for your spouse. I am so tired of that word not being defined but yet being judged by others on whether we have it or not. I do not believe in love or marriage and am trying to understand what people mean or feel when they use that word. To me it just seems like some catch-all phrase for guilt, pity for the spouse, or not having the courage to expose your true needs and or move on etc in the case of an affair. Especially with a narc who you admit you have feelings for but that will never be returned. This is why I think the concept of love and marriage are a sham. A mask to cover the lie that we can never have all of our needs met by one person.
narc affair:
to me, personally, it sounds a bit funny to say that one turns to a narc to have one’s needs met. 🙂
It was the other way round for me. I betrayed my first boyfriend (who was probably a narc, it’s too long ago to say) because of the emotional and sexual abuse. To find what I needed elsewhere. But that wasn’t clear to me back then, though I didn’t think of love when I was with my lover, he was a friend (for a long time). I learned from it though and ended the relationship first next time, because it simply wasn’t a solution to stay in one relationship while looking elsewhere for the missing components. I know it’s never black and white, though. Maybe there are couples who find an open-minded solution.
I was single during my “affair” with my lower-narc-like-lover. He sure gave me on the one hand what I needed, but it was clear that it was a purely sexual relationship and that he had others, and that was all agreed on. Though it wasn’t easy not to develop any feelings after meeting for years. I don’t know what I would have done if he had faked emotions. ;(
NarcAngel:
those are all very good questions.
I’m glad I never heard the word “love” coming from my parents. Not ever.
Maybe I should ask my mother why she had married my father, *lol*, that would make for some fun.
I also wonder how I developed my own concept of “love”, as I had no role models for it. ?!
I don’t think love means automatically to be with someone in a fixed relationship and fulfulling expectations, but to give someone the freedom to be their best self.
On the other hand, as I said, a relationship is always a partnership agreement, too. I’m not sure at all what I would agree on today.
A confession: I like to watch “married at first sight”, because it’s reversing the process, I find it kind of interesting. 😉
Oh, well. I’m glad you bring this all up. Maybe I will make a list soon, what I expect in a partner, like Windstorm2 did.
Narc angel/ava…ty for your input its a lot to think about and much of what youve posted goes thru my mind regularly.
I do love my hubby but im human and there has been issues in the marriage. The affair has opened my eyes to many things and my childhood as well. I think thats why i gravitated towards the narc bc of unresolved issues from my past. Narcs do sniff out vulnerability and know all too well who would be the most suseptible to their tactics. They know their best target. At the time i didnt know any of this but that isnt to say i was innocent in it bc i did stray from the marriage.
When i say love ive been thru so much with my hubby. It hasnt been an easy life but i like who he is, hes fun, i care about him, weve supported each other thru hard times. I know i love him but being in love thats not there. Early on there were warning signs and i ask myself should i have stayed and i still feel i wouldve. Weve shared many great years together. Life is so complicated and a part of me says maybe we shouldnt of stayed together.
The narc affair is complex it was from needs not being met but also i see now it is so much more than just the marriage. Ive learned about narcissism as a result of the narc and in turn my whole upbringing. Its definitely a journey.
I do see what you are saying tho about loving a person and being unfaithful. It would seem you dont really love or care for them if youd do that but i do love my hubby. Hes a great person who i do respect.
Thank you all for your wonderful commentary. It is truly enlightening and helps me heal as I realize I’m not alone.
Narc Affair,
I do believe you when you say you love your husband. I still believe in the concept of love. I feel it every time I look at my child. To me, love is multifactorial. Putting someone’s needs before yours not because you have to, but because you choose to and want to is only part of it. Perhaps the reason you strayed is not for lack of love for your husband or unmet needs, but a lack of love for yourself. Us so-called victims of narcissists share a common traits, and it isn’t just empathy. We failed ourselves in that we did not realize our value or self worth. It is possible we were never taught how to build self esteem and those we were surrounded by were either unwilling or lacked the knowledge to teach us how.
Here we are at the crossroads. Do we choose the path of continued abuse that leads to a downward spiral or do we choose “no contact” where the road may not be paved, but it leads to a far more beautiful place? Each day is an opportunity to learn. I choose to learn about boundaries and how I will maintain them. I choose to not be a victim, I choose strength, I choose love, I choose to break the cycle and give my self value, I choose to be an example for my child. The past cannot be undone but it does not have to be repeated!!!
Hi Sookie…ty for your post. I do love hubby and care but im also selfish in that i have needs he never could meet even after years of discussing it and counselling. Many would say why stay? I stay bc theres so much about him i love despite the other problems.
For some people, NarcAngel, not for everyone.
But constant degradation and abuse seems to take its toll, and maybe makes people forget.
And certainly one can gradually fall for a kind of sexual relationship which one hadn’t wanted before starting it.
To me personally there is a difference between purely physical sex and expressing love and union.
But sure, one should never forget about the control part. I wish I had known about this all many many years ago.
SLS: My Narc seduced his married co-worker, told her she deserved better, faux empathized with her loveless marriage, strung her along as a FWB relationship, saying he didn’t want to be responsible for leaving her husband. (Didn’t know this until after the fact. He set up his lies to look like the hero.) Well, she did leave and then demanded a fully committed relationship with our Narc which he went along with briefly. Enter me. I knew his coworker through mutual colleagues and she brought Narc along on a work trip we were on. That’s how we met. He immediately scoped me out, broke up with her when they got back and asked me out the same day. After keeping him at arms length for over a month, he eventually snagged me. It was intense and despite seeing red flags, I went along, reasoning I didn’t want to shut off a person I (mistakenly) believed was trying to be open with me. It is definitely a drug. But then it got out that he was hooking up with multiple coworkers. I found out, and although he denied it, he dumped me anyway. I’m assuming he also got bored. He could never sit still. He always had to be in motion. Narc said he wanted to stay in touch, but that was his way of slow fading me through texts and then discarding me three months later. And while it hurt me deeply, I accepted it and moved on with no plans to contact him or respond if he tries to reach out. But the supply must have run really low for Narc. Heard through the grapevine recently, he got back with his ex, now divorced, co-worker for five minutes, before she caught him with another co-worker. (Apparently he doesn’t care about losing his job, despite being 40 years old with three children to put through college.) There’s been hoovering, but not sure if they are together again; not that it matters. Thankfully, I now see him for what he is and this site has been very helpful. Grateful it wasn’t worse.
All of these posts only confirm to me what I have always believed. Sex is not about love-it is about power.
Or maybe……..
A narcissist wants a married person because you don’t have to commit. This way you don’t have to have any feelings attached to the relationship. Your needs are met and you can walk away anytime with the mindset that they are unavailable emotionally and then you don’t have to feel anything. That’s what it’s about, getting rid of those pesky feeling *swats your ass with flyswatter* OOH!
Then it is a blessing in disguise because unlike the woman who is in a relationship with the narc. The married woman can see him for who he is outside of a relationship, and be thankful she is not stuck with him. Eventually the married person gets tired of fooling around anyway, and goes back to the spouse. If anything it should be a insult to the narcissist that says my spouse is still better than you were just the sex toy.
Mona and Ursula,
I feel like I can comment on this. In my case the affair very quickly became an intense drug. Looking back I was pretty much in a trance throughout the time spent in the affair, much like the state of mind of a person conned into being in a cult. The reason behind this is brain chemistry. I agree with Mona that it is not fair. And that we are indeed culpable. However, despite years and years of dissatisfaction and opportunities to step outside my marital vows, never once did I. Until the spell of love bombing was swiftly cast upon me. I was starving for attention and he not only gave attention, he gave attention that felt erotic and exotic and flattering and excessively attentive, pouring into all my gaping wounds of my childhood and empty marriage. It was an absolutely incredible high.
Then came the intermittent attention/reinforcement. The pull back ever so slightly by him. And then a little more. Google intermittent reinforcement and how addictive it is. In my strung out mind that became conditioned to crave his attention he could do no wrong. Once it became intermittent, you are hooked. Your logic disappears and you make choices out of desperation. Much like how a desperate heroin addict robs someone to get the next fix. The dopamine fix takes over. I can absolutely attest to this!
So, when one asks how could you do it? Yes you know it’s wrong but your addicted brain is no longer thinking logically, let alone morally. That is what I can say with absolute certainty. Does it excuse the behavior? Hell no. Does it make some sense of why it happened. I hope.
I can totally relate to this explanation. It’s like you’ve described my life.
Narc affair, this is a very intelligent post, a sensitive description that großes every aspect of what I went through.
I was operatIng according to the Loic and amoral rules and standards of the narcissist.
NC, that was very interesting. I actually looked up intermittent reinforcement. I believe it is the same as Mr. Tudor’s term ‘reprieve’ (during devaluation). Occasional rewards handed out during a period of punishment. I agree, it is incredibly powerful because you hope, pray, and work hard to earn more of these reprieves. Once given (no matter how small or insignificant), you feel it is a gift from heaven above. I laugh at myself now about what gave me joy during previous devaluations.
A 2 hour drive down to see HIS friends for the weekend and sleep on their uncomfortable couch and hang out with people that could care less about me??? OH BOY OH BOY! Yippeee Yes! He does love me! 🌟✨💥💫
@Love,
Yes, I totally relate to what you have said. Initially he wanted to be with me constantly. I felt like a princess in his presence. I’ve never felt so adored. Which is an indicator right there. He filled up something that was missing in my life. I guess they know they do this.
Then things changed. I was the one pursuing and the crumbs were less and less. All typical. The trick is understanding what happened and moving on. Much easier said than done. Forgiving oneself is the starting point. Our life circumstances made us vulnerable to a predator, we got bit, and the predator had some version of rabies that is difficult to get out of your system. It’s a battle.
The hardest part is fighting the battle and having to stay in the game of life at the same time. A heroin addict may (hopefully) get into rehab. Unfortunately that is not an option for people who have found themselves in this situation. Yet there may indeed be a similar level of addiction. And often we cannot even discuss it with many people due to the circumstances. It is difficult.
NC: THIS!!!! It was a drug to me also. The intensity of passion and desire, the way he seemingly craved me.
He made comments from week 1 that I feel like were foreshadowing. He said to me “Be my addiction!” It sounds lame now but it conveyed the message that he could be addicted to me.
Of course after our first argument which I’m pretty sure he orchestrated to get a reaction… he said “Should I leave you be? You’re at a pivotal point in your life and it wouldn’t be fair for me to use my years of experience at this to manipulate your feelings.” Rather than take this as a warning, I told him I don’t want to stop talking. I took his comment as insightful and considerate and thought that meant he did NOT want to hurt me. But I did wonder why the hell he said it said he assumed he would manipulate me.
Is it common for narcs to give little hints like that while ensnaring us?
To Clarify my post a few min ago to NC… his “years of experience at this” referred to talking to women online. He was very open about the fact he had sexted with hundreds of women before me. But he said he felt closer to me than to anyone else because “we both find something we need in each other.” How true that statement was. But what he left out was that what we are providing for each other is not the same thing!
NC ….ty for that post. It describes a lot of why im in the affair and the dynamics. Intermittent reinforcement is definitely a tactic to condition and control. We eventually expect less and less. The more you depend on someone the more you dont want to lose them. These relationships are like a cult in a lot of ways. They target individuals with vulnerabilities for a reason and thats bc theyre more pliable and suseptable to their methods.
Yes, Mary. The give hints. Mine gave a ton!
I think mine had small moments of realization of who he is. But like an alcoholic, he wasn’t going to put down the bottle.
When I caught him in what I now know to be the beginnings of him hooking the woman he would cheat on me with…after brushing it aside and apologizing he went into a psychotic type state. Not sure if he faked it or not. But he told me I should leave him. That he was going to destroy me like he did his ex wife. He said he was sick in the head, a terrible father and that his children were scared of him. He said, “call my ex wife. She knows me better than anyone. She’ll tell you who I am!”
His eyes even looked psychotic and hollow. I think for that night he was faced with who he was. That he was in fact still a cheater, even though he wanted everyone to believe it was isolated to his unhappy marriage.
Narc Affair,
Yes, it is very cult like! That is a really accurate way to describe it. I have done things (or in this case mostly TALKED about doing things) that were not myself at all. I even felt like I *wanted* things I wouldn’t normally want. My closest friend and my mom were like “I’m so afraid of what he’s doing to you.” and worried I wasn’t myself or would end up dead, because he was so gifted at talking me into things, luring me into sharing things, etc. And in most cases, there prob is isolation from one’s loved ones, so yes, very much a cult. I guess we all kind of were all in it together… a Cult of the Narc maybe? And YES, they target vulnerable and trusting individuals. It’s sickening.
THAT. was the same thing with me, Mary! Talking and phantasizing about extraordinary things to do… All the time. Realisation: 10 percent, or less… But the permanent exchange of ideas and phantasies was extremely addictive. And like you, I was coaxed and seduced into developping ideas way beyond my real sexual orientation.
Why do you need someone else to justify your fantasies?
Thank you, Ursula. I was a little bit afraid, that you would feel attacked. Please feel free to criticise me too. There are surely a lot of things where I am doing wrong and I am not aware of them.
Hugs, Mona! Your Comment was very valuable and I didn’t feel critizised! I realized that my writing was a little naive … and too placative.
I feel a little ashamed now, but that’s okay.
I didn’t want to offend anybodies feelings!
Rest assured that I am very much in love with my husband with whom I am since 1982. Married since 1997. Two wonderful sons. But I am very much alone, since my husband and also my two sons are travelling a lot. (They are members in a famous boys choir) I am the person in the family who is always packing the luggage but never going anywhere… and that is/was the void of Frustration where my narc would fit in…
Perhaps you can understand now … But that is not meant as an excuse for violating the taboo of the marital bed…
Okay?
Ursula, sorry that I did not answer earlier, sometimes I do not find my own comments again. (too much to read). Yes, I understand you. They are very seductive. I was the one at the other side. His IPPS. That is no fun at all. Believe me, at home they are horrible after a while. There is no great man behind it. Only someone who lives in fantasies and forgets the reality, for example to pay bills and you are the one to comfort and support him all the time. I am honest, I envy you a little bit. You still have a husband and children to go back to and you can rely on them. I do not miss the narc, he is horrible. I miss the safety of a functioning family. But there is none.
Dear Mona! I can totally understand you. Believe me, I know how cruel the life of a woman living together with a narcissistically disturbed man can be. I am witnessing tragic, life threatening consequences at the moment. Please forgive me if I am not going further into details. I wish you all the Best in keeping away from your ex-partner. Thank you very much for your comments. U.
Ursula, Maybe …. get a job … ?!
Or volunteer somewhere if you think that it is beneath you to earn some money yourself? I’m sure there are many places where helpful hands are needed also at night, while you husband is away, so you won’t get too bored.
It is cynical to have your husband provide your lifestyle and then complain and fill your boredom with other men. You have other choices today, also if you feel alone when with your husband.
Why do you think that you sex partner you are obviously engaging with out of free will is a narc anyways?
As far as getting a job, you are absolutely right, Lady chatterley.
About the narcissistic traits of my ex-lover there can be no doubt, since I was seduced into a whirlwind romance and put on an emotional rollercoaster in textbook fashion. I literally went through each and every Manipulation technique described by HG and in other Blogs. There can be no doubt about what and who I am dealing with.
And, Lady Chatterley, that I didn’t have a job was one of the voids and vulnerabilities my narcissistic lover could exploit. It was one of the reasons why I fell into his trap. I am fully conscious of this.
Ursula, I was a little bit shocked and speechless when I read some of your comments here. “My narc loves having sex in the bed I share with my husband.” Where is the difference between you (the empath?) and the narc? It is mean and heartless to have sex in the bed you share with your husband. Where is the difference? And you put the blame on the narc. I see no difference, it is narcissistic behaviour. Where is your empathy, your compassion for your husband? You make a fool of him. Wild phantasies against your husband. Are you sure, that you really love your husband? Why then did you do it that way? I understand, that a marriage can be boring and you are seducable for an affair. I do not understand how you did it . And sorry, you seemed to enjoy your own behaviour. But – of course – the narc is the guilty one.
Thank you Mona. You are right. I have to think about this very seriously.
Mona, thank you for your post. You are brave and bold to shed light on the obvious. I too think this of my situation. I asked my therapist if I am the narcissist. She does not believe so. I know I am considered “damaged goods” and for a long time had low self esteem. Narc actually helped me to realize this and told me to value myself. He was absolutely right. Through HG’s work, I realize I fell in love with a fantasy and the narc was just mirroring me. So, by falling in love with him I was actually falling in love with myself. I am amazing and will no longer allow anyone to mistreat or disrespect me. Narc was a Godsend in helping my psychologically until I found out he was smearing me to my boss and sharing intimate photos/videos and details of our relationship. It was a slap in the face. Silly narc, I would have followed him to the end of the world oozing fuel and kissing his feet. The revelation early in the process has reinstated my belief there is a God (sorry HG, it is not you, though I do adore you)!
HG, Does discussion of your exes cause you to hoover (when you wouldn’t have done so otherwise) since it brings them back into your sphere of influence?
It causes a Hoover Trigger yes. Does not necessarily result in a hoover though.
Narc affair, I absolutely share and understand your feelings towards your husband!!! Same thing with me. I love him. I want to spend my life with him. I love bringing up our sons together. But there is so much boredom and routine in the marriage… And in his best moments my narcissistic lover would feed me with the drug that kept me going… the highs and lows… the love bombing…. the illusions… the sharing of wild phantasies…
Great Hugs, Narc affair!!!!
Interesting article. I don’t have first hand experience but one of my narcs would brag about his escapades with married woman when we were ‘friends’. He always targeted women married to men he detested. Almost always, the husbands were his colleagues. He stated he would come as close to feeling ‘love’ the first time he would conquer a married woman. I think it was a high from the win. He would quickly return to baseline after each conquest.
Hi Love!
I also enjoyed this article. HG knows everything. Lol
I heard you are traveling. I hope you have a great time and a safe one. R u sightseeing?
Thanks Snow! 💚💜💙💛 Yes, it is so good to be on vacation and stress free. Any summer plans for you?
Hi Love!!!!!
How long is your vacation? What have you been doing?
Thank goodness I had zero plans this summer. My foot is still in a brace and now I have an inflamed rotator cuff. I’m just sitting around with ice on my body reading Indy’s book suggestion. Lol
HG, do you know which one of your books will be out first?
Not yet, there are three trying to scramble from the spawning var.
I’m sorry Snow. I hope you make some great Fall plans, as a treat to yourself for being down during summer.
I’m back from vacation and back to real life 😝 I prefer being on holiday forever.
That’s the bad thing about vacation Love, you have reality to come back to. Sorry!
I am in limbo! I hate not knowing what I’m doing. I don’t even know if I’m returning to work. Things didn’t go well with my fight with my son’s school so everything is up in the air. And with the combination of my injuries my C-PTSD symptoms have resurfaced. 😔…. I have lost hope and any positivity that I once had. It’s depressing.
My therapist said that I was using the gym as my coping mechanism and when that was compromised I slipped backwards. It’s always one step forward and two backwards.
Did you spend any time in the water? That’s where I want to go when I can.
Nooooo…. Snow you have such a pure heart and have been doing so good. Maybe this is a momentary bump in the road to test your strength. It will pass. You are so much stronger than you know. Don’t give up honey. We are here for you. ❤💜💚💙
I wish I could swim in the sea or ocean. But we were limited on time.
Thank you sooo much Love!!!!!
Your words mean a lot to me❤️❤️❤️
I hate feeling defeated but it just feels like the other side wins all the time.
I have no idea what the universe is trying to tell me.
Well I’m glad you made it safely back and you can go back to your pool and sauna at the gym. Lol
They don’t win all the time. You’ll get right back up there again. I remember being very depressed when I cracked my kneecap. But the upside was I learned men love catering to a damsel in distress. I went on so many dates and was pampered thoroughly. Lol I almost want to put my leg brace back on and get out there 😀
Snow White
All the universe is trying to tell you is slow down-its not ready for your level of awesomeness yet. Its giving you some time to read up on and reinforce what you alread know-that you are on the right path to keep the other side from winning (despite what they might think).
Thanks NA!!!!
Its definitely forced me to slow down. Lol
And it made me realize how much I missed everyone here when I wasn’t commenting. This is a big part of my recovery. I learn something new all the time here.
I love football and when I was younger I wrote an article about Vince Lombardi and his famous quote “winning isn’t everything, it’s the only thing”.
Now it has a whole new meaning for me.
Which team do you support?
Pittsburgh Steelers
What sport do you follow in the summer over there?
That’s not football!
That is excellent football!!!!
Hopefully going to the Super Bowl this year.
Do you have a favorite soccer team?
It’s not soccer it is football!!
I do.
Who are they?
I think I remember you saying that you played.
Do you ever get together with some old friends and play a game?
Not saying.
I used to play to a high standard. I still play and a couple of old (as in long-standing) friends are involved.
Good to know that you still get together and have some fun. I always like hearing about the friends you have had for awhile. Your personal stories are the best ones.
You do deserve happiness in life HG.
Snow White
1 Of course he SAYS he played. He may well have been selling hot dogs and a ball bounced off his shins up in the stands, but to a Narc-he was drafted and led them to a Championship.
2. Of course he does. Its called a hoover.
1. I played.
2. Nobody sells hots dogs that close to the pitch.
HG
1. I played too. Rugby. Chesterfield Rugby.
2. Good to know-Im not familiar with soccer. Oh dont ignite-Im teasing. I know its Football (which actually makes more sense)
I bet you look handsome in your red and white.
We wear royal blue and yellow.
Omg!!! You played for Brazil!!!???! 😍😍😍 Wow! I’ve now boosted my fanship up to Super Duper #1 HG Tudor fan level!
I think I’m going to faint!!
Steelers in the fall. Tigers in the summer.
Go Steelers!
Cheers for the black and gold!!!!
Yinz from the ‘burgh n’at?
Thanks Love!!!
You always make me smile😄
It’s funny that you say that because I have caused soo much attention to myself at the gym it’s ridiculous. I have people flirting with me, asking my name, asking how old I am, hugging me.
Too much interaction. Lol
Them my therapist instructed me to not encourage conversation and keep my sentences to a minimum. Ugh!!! That depressed me because it feels like my ex highjacked my identity. I sat on the bike for two days and kept quiet. I hate to be quiet. Lol… it backfired because then I went the opposite way and hugged my trainer and carried on in conversation with some guy who gives me too much attention.
I need to find the middle. It’s hard when I sit and analyze everything.
I don’t understand why you can’t socialize with others! We need human interaction. I don’t understand why your therapist would discourage it. You seem to blossom in a social environment.
Love
Welcome home. Anything on the European Narc front to report or same play book?
Snow
Are these workout injuries youre suffering?
NA, I don’t think I met any narcs. Everybody was so nice. Oh but there was a guy in the metro. The cabin was empty and he sat in front of us – wearing shorts reading the paper. Lo and behold, I discovered he wasn’t wearing underwear. 😮 And he was smirking. Maybe he was reading something funny?
Love
Something funny…..yeah yeah thats it………
Reminds me. I was at a large gathering one summer when this skinny wasted hippy type wandered in and sat in a lawn chair across from me. Yup, amazingly large angry red beet hanging out the leg of his shorts. People start to notice point and laugh but nobody wants to tell him. He adjusts his legs and I thought it would explode from being compressed by the leg of his shorts. Women are making disgusted faces and guys are laughing but still nobody says a thing. I watch all of this amused until I decide its enough and say to him: Hey Murray-dont you hate when your balls fall out of your shorts on a hot sunny day and get all sunburned? I am not smiling but everyone else is and is holding it in until he looks straight at me and says in the most serious voice:
I dunno man, never happened to me.
We fell out. He still had no clue.
I finally had to say to him: either start licking those balls or put them away.
LMAO! 😂😂😂 Maybe this guy was clueless as well. It was the longest 13 stops of my life. I tried to look anywhere but there.
He faked his love, I faked my orgasms. Several times on each occasion. It made him so excited and smug, so I could not stop but fake it in order to enjoy the show. He thought he had complete control over my body. How wrong he was. So in this case who is the puppetmaster? And I loved every minute of it. I wonder if he is less successful in this compartment with the new appliance, will he feel less powerful?
He is because you gave him fuel which is what he wanted.
If the response of the new appliance means the reaction is not a strong he gains a lesser quantity of fuel.
In these cases do your kind compare appliances? Would you want to get back with the one who has a much better fuel supply? Or you would not risk another major wounding?
What you have to bear in mind that the split thinking will impact on the comparisons. Thus since you are painted black, you are deemed useless, ugly, annoying etc in comparison to the new IPPS we have acquired. Suddenly the roles become reversed and you are helpful, beautiful and interesting.
Due to this, will she be devalued sooner?
Sex goddess,
I’ve actually wondered the same thing. I also faked it a lot to make it end. I just wanted it to end.
HG,
Do you think Narcs get “worse” with time? Meaning will they take more risks? The old midrange boyfriend narc seemed to have a squeaky clean past up until he was 26 and dipped his toes in infidelity. He then seemed he chose risker and risker targets (affairs) which eventually led to a married woman of one of his students. This got exposed and his reputation tarnished thank goodness. I would think a narc would miss the excitement and risk of secrecy. Even non-narcs do! I’m an empath and I had 2 affairs on my ex husband victim narc.
Not as a general rule no. It will have more to do with the available fuel sources for certain of our kind.
there was not a reply spot on your explanation of cockhold. I did not find where the male who is forced to watch his wife get fucked is also forced to be used by the aggressive make.
I do not want to see any man I want to fuck a man. I do have fantasies of watching my man having another woman and I am to watch. But she is being devalued as he has sex with her. But I have had some of my fantasies fulfilled and most are best left as fantasy.
HG!
Such gratitude for this! It’s just what I was expecting you might describe. It’s for the most part, my situation. Although, like someone above, I was not coerced by the N to leave my husband. To the contrary actually.
My situation involved immediate and very intense love bombing and me being way too open about my apathy in my marriage. He catapulted into seduction and I fell, hook, line and sinker. It was those words and of course my brain chemistry that took over. Interestingly, the N I knew is several steps below my husband in almost every way. Yet I was mesmerized. Soul mate sort of stuff. Until another sort of bomb was dropped: that I should always put my marriage first and him (the N) second. Wait, what?? That was a curve ball for sure. I should have run at that point. But, I was too far gone and just held on for a very long time after that, accepting crumbs and withdrawal and more crumbs and an occasional reactivation. Until one day, adios.
On another note, the ever presence is what I battle. And I make my long term goal to overcome that. I have been no contact, but I’d sure like to one day evict him from my head completely. You have addressed that in the past, but please continue to do so. Keep up what you do, HG.
NC, your situation is similar to mine with the immediate and intense love bombing. It occurred after I confided to narc I was getting divorced. Like you, I too strive to overcome my digressions. I do not want a life of lies and affairs. Somewhere along the line I lost my conscience and have since regained it. Now I treasure it and fight to maintain direction with my moral compass.
Sometimes I question if we super empaths are really just mid level narcs unaware of what we are and lack the understanding to realize our empathy is not genuine. I think of those things I do to help others, regardless of their socioeconomic status, even when there is no one to see my actions and praise me. I do these things out of what I feel is genuine concern for humanity and an act of integrity. When I act in such a fashion, it gives me emotions of happiness and satisfaction. How do I know this isn’t fuel?
I have so many narc traits, its scary. I can relate to many narc games I played with my soon to be ex…silent treatments, fake listening, even now I am not sad about the termination of our marriage. Even with my greater narc, I shove his manipulations back at him. I no longer want a romantic relationship, I only want to offer salvation to those who are weathering it in the eye of the storm. My concern is being sucked back in all for the sake of extending a helping hand, but who else is strong enough to do it?
Well………I do believe this. Wish I would have read this about three years ago. Well written HG, but mild compared to the many exploits described by the man I was last close to.
That was a fascinating and frightening article HG!
No one else could have explained how it all falls into place like you did. As you know, that is all exactly what happened to me.
All 10 of your “whys” sum it up perfectly.
My ex felt entitled from the beginning. She never once was concerned or felt threatened by my husband. I remember telling her in the beginning that I was happy and had a good marriage. I still shake my head at that because I remember where and when I was and it was the truth. She took her time crossing many boundaries. I was clueless as to what she was doing and made it easy for her because I didn’t want to tell her “no”.
Because of you I now know what she was saying to her girlfriend. It was all triangulation and for fuel. I kept thinking to myself “why is this all ok with her girlfriend”. But she was the exact carbon copy of me and wanted to do anything and everything that she could for her. If that meant that she wanted me as another wife, she was fine with it. I know it hurt her though.
Smearing the spouse was done also. She used to tell me she was better for me and that she would take care of me. Asking me why I stay with him. In the last few months she even told me that he was emotionally abusing me. My mind knew better but I could never stand up to her.
She took her time figuring out what I liked and what I was missing in my life. She offered up everything on a golden platter.
I was never a secret. Absolutely everyone knew about me. Even her boss and owner of her company. She was very proud that she “rescued” her girlfriend away from her husband and she was doing the exact same thing with me. People thought she was a God and asked her for tips. Not one of them questioned any of her actions. One of the reasons I thought it was all ok.
What really still hurts is that I trusted her more than anyone in my life. I was completely comfortable with her. Her manipulation skills were excellent. She had a master end plan and it almost worked. A couple days before I left she said “it feels so good to be able to call you mine”. That word always bothered me.
I feel sorry for who she has in place now.
As to your number 6, I read some of the comments about this on one of the other arcticles and didn’t have time to comment. I will save it for when your new one comes out.
I’m sure you already know how my mind was working through the whole mess. Lol
Now I’m afraid to wear my wedding ring HG. Lol… It’s bad enough that I have that red aura around me that I can’t dim.
When I read all this, knowing this was an active dynamic with my narc (he used to beg me to go on camera, ask if my husband was there, and that we could be quiet -I never did always said no)…. but when I read this, how many lives would experience so much less pain, so many fewer destroyed families if sex wasn’t used this way and I don’t know, if open marriages were more the norm than the shameful things they are?
Narc said he told his ex after 10 years he was cheating. He said she said she figured. When I told my husband, narc said that he would not have had that trust to tell. It was puzzling but it makes sense. In a narc’s mind, they are trusting the one cheated on to not kick them out or react. THEIR trust is on the line, not the partner’s trust they are breaking!! He was not trusting her to not react. Bizarre.
Anyway, in my case, I told because of many reasons and it only made our marriage better. There was no retaliation or anything. Acutally, understanding when he knew the whole story. So no power there for the Narc to drink from.
It is amazing how accurate your articles are. My ex spoke of his dalliances with married women for many of the reasons you listed.
I am a married target who was modeled into a dirty little secret or shelf ipss. Pretending to go for the gym and having quick sex in the shadowy car park absolutely hits the nail of my reality. I even had to carry the spandex and the Highheels within my sports bag …
I was commanded to have sex in the early morning hours in the Garage of his house – while his intimate primary source was sleeping upstairs… and he admitted freely that it was the risk of being detected that turned him on … the risk and my fear, by the way…
Thank you, HG, for giving us this very realistic, disillusioning description…
You are welcome.
Your narc sounds kinky. My narc says he has fantasies of having sex in my maritial bed. He also gets turned on by my wearing my ring. Its a fetish for him being with a married woman. It doesnt sit well with me and makes me uncomfortable bc i do love my husband despite huge problems. Id not want to hurt him ever. This is the main reason i need to detach eventually. I think narcissists like to rub their tarnish and shame off on empaths to dirty them. Theyre envious of our good nature and like to exploit it. In a way saying…see what i made you do now youre no better than me. Thats the feeling i get. I know in my narcs case it really is a fetish of his me being married. He has no interest in getting married yet he loves seducing a married woman. Its like in the blog its a ego boost they can seduce a person whose married but its no big feat bc i had issues in my marriage. I told him day one if things werent the way they were in my marriage him and i wouldve never been involved.
My narc loves having sex in the bed I share with my husband. And he loves getting erotic selfies showing the hand with my marital ring…
Ursula…your narc sounds so much like mine. He will never be in my marriage bed ever. These types love to see how much we will go along with. Mine doesnt know where i live even. My family he knows very little about and itll stay that way.
Hello Narc affair! I already wanted to state that I recognize many similiarities between your narcissistic lover and mine… ! And I also like your comments and Postings very much! Thank you for giving me advice!
Narc Affair, I related to soooo much of what you say. Enough so that I could have written it about my own narc. Holy cow.
He would say he wants to fuck me from behind in the bed he shares with his wife, while forcing me to look at their wedding photo. The last time we sexted, he demanded that I say “I hate him” (about my husband) just as we were climaxing. This is the type of shit hat got him off. And I did it just because it was “fantasy” and not really happening. But the reality of it was VERY much that he was degrading me. I thought if anything he was degrading his wife and my hub, which isn’t good, but if it’s fantasy they don’t get hurt. The real truth is he KNEW it wasn’t something that would come naturally to me, and he liked corrupting me. And he didn’t start out this way at all. He started out with normal sexting, wanting to say “I love you” during it, then it changed. Gradually, and interspersed with really hot, normal scenarios, until the degrading ones became more of our “normal” near the end.
Mary, I went through similar experiences! My narcissistic lover phantasized about shaving my head so that I would have to invent something I could tell my husband and my two sons… like sort of “I always wanted to have a buzz cut…”
The idea of degradiing me by cutting my hair off and forcing me to show myself gaunt headed in every day life (which he isn’t sharing with me) turned him on…
Hi mary…wow thats way worse. Youre right its about degrading. Some really find it a turn on and in some ways its like a mild form of sadism but emotional sadism. My narcs never asked me to use my wedding pic which id never agree to. Despite the affair my marriage does mean something to me and my wedding day. That may sound hypocritical but it does. I love my husband deeply but im not in love with him. A lot has happened between us thats changed that. The things weve shared i cherish and i care about him abd id never want to hurt him. I find it hard to bring anything about my marriage into the affair. The narcs said some things like about me having another mans dick inside me etc and its a fetish. Im fine with fetishes as long as you respect your partner and their feelings. Thats as far as id go. My bed, my wedding photo, mentioning my hubby are all off limits. I wont go along with any of that i find it disgusting. The two are seperate. Even my wedding ring i dont like him bringing up. It makes me feel uncomfortable.
Hi ursula..ty for the kind compliment! I enjoy your posts as well!
Shaving your head now thats a new one lol your narc sounded like he was into riskiness but at your expense. Definitely not cool.
Yes, exactly, Narc affair! And I suppose it would have give him loads of thought-fuel to imagine my difficulties in explaining away my loss of hair. And my going through everyday’s business bald headed, secretly marked as HIS property!!!
Thank God, the idea was never realized…
Narc Affair,
Thank you for your reply. It’s really good that you have kept a boundary up with your narc to not involve your marriage or things about your husband or your wedding day with your narc. It’s hard to set any boundary with narcs, and you having that hard rule I’m sure has saved you some grief.
It doesn’t sound hypocritical at all to say your marriage means something to you. I can relate to that as well, and do love my husband, but our marriage is very dysfunctional. He and I both are to blame for that. So I totally get how you can be with and desire or even love someone else when they meet needs your husband does not. My guess is that most people who have affairs probably have love for their spouse, just love that has changed (unless they are narcs and can’t love).
The fetish you mention about your narc talking about you being with another man… my narc talked about that all the time. Not my hub’s in that case, but that’s why he wanted me to sext other guys. It was a way to control and triangulate, but also he hoped to actually watch me with someone else in real life. I honestly think it was the idea that he could convince me to do something like that to please him. In fantasy, that could be hot, but no way was it going to happen in real life. I talked to and flirted with others for my narc and to distract from his silences, but only wanted him during all this.
Dear Mary, my narcissistic lover was obsessed by the idea of “lending” me to his friends and watching them doing it with me. Should I have sex with another man he would have wanted pictures or videos. “Fuck him, but do make pictures of it!!!” was what he used to write on several occasions.
None of those Plans did ever come true. And it tormented me a lot to have to discuss those Topics with him.
I know that deep in his heart he was very afraid that I could find another lover. But he hid this fear almost perfectly…
Seems like went through many similar experiences, you and I and narc affair…
Ursula,
Thank you for sharing this. That is a rather twisted thing for him to fantasize about. In agreement with Narc Affair, the risk at solely your expense would not be cool.
I do agree with you in your comment further down also about how addictive the exchange of fantasies is. There was a rush in being free to talk about anything. My narc’s craziest fantasies did not excite me at all, but the fact that he shared them? THAT was one thing that kept me hooked. He opened up to me about some desires that would have sent many women running, and I didn’t want to reject or judge him for it. I felt “accepted” for who I was at times, and wanted him to feel accepted too. He said he felt closer to me than anyone else. So we had a connection. Kind of an understanding of no judgments. He said I was his favorite for this reason.
Your word “coaxed” is exactly what it is. It’s not like the narc is responsible for any behaviors I am not proud of. It’s not like there was physical force, but there was emotional manipulation to do or say certain things to continue being the favorite source of fuel. And they make being their fuel feel like such a prize! But it isn’t. It feels good in the moment, but like eating too much sugar, leaves you feeling so sick after.
Yes Mary! Exactly! I have to admit that I sometimes felt superior to women who didn’t have such a phantasy relationship. Sitting together with other school-moms, I sometimes locked upon them, thinking how much more interesting and exciting my secret life was. But ever so often, when being devalued and ignored, I envied them for the peaceful state of mind they could live in.
But that was part of the addiction: feeling elevated and “choosen” by leading a secret life…
I don’t understand how being cockholded appeals to a narc. Ok, I will spell it correctly – cuckold, though my version seems more applicable lol.
Wouldn’t a narc fear losing control and power when another man is with their PS?
It depends on whether it is a proper cuckold situation or not and how it has been instigated.
What is a proper cuckold situation? One where the narc has orchestrated the whole thing? If he picks the man, place, date/time – then he still retains all power and control?
No, some people think a cuckold situation is the partner observing their partner engaged in sexual activity with another man. It is more than that. It is the further humiliation of the male partner by having him watch, usually restrained and then having to engage sexually with the bull male.
Oh wow. I never knew that. Thank you.
Yeah yeah, sure you didn’t!
I swear I did not. I have never experienced it. Though to be honest, it sounds quite erotic. Of course if all parties are willing and open to it.
Who cares if they are open to it?
Lol being open to it means greater pleasure for everyone involved.
Love
Well someone had better be open. Otherwise its just a sleepover. Yawn.
Lol! NarcAngel, I have missed you! 😂
So you mean cuckolding does not involve cuddling?
Hi Narc Angel!
Yes, they are workout injuries.
Indy has me convinced that trauma is trapped in my body. Lol
I’m reading her suggestion on how the whole body is affected by trauma. It’s very interesting so far.
My therapist isn’t listening to me so I’m trying to find other ways to deal with some of my triggers and breakdowns.
As usual I love your humor. You always crack me up!!! 😉
Oh my…Another new learning/definition provided by HG.
Yes, exactly, Love! Mine one time phantasized about taking me to a gang-bang with his friends. He imagined to have me first and then leaving me to the others and watching…
He also imagined to watch only, while one of his friends would have me…
AND he dreamt of forcing me to watch while he was doing it with another woman – which would have been the absolute nightmare for me.
Well that was educational – totally didn’t know that cuckold shit – it still baffles me – wanted to be humiliated seeing another man fuck your chick….
I didn’t realize there was dude on dude action too….
Make some shudder, though I understand what all parties to the triangulation get out of it.
There is not always man on man action but sometimes there is, usually the cuck has to suck the dick of the bull after he has violated his partner.
It’s the flesh version of quantitative easing.
Had to look up quantitative easing…too early for economics…must get coffee.
Allow me. QE is a device whereby the central bank pumps more money into the economy for the purposes of ensuring that banks use that money to lend. At least that was the idea. Instead, the banks decided to suck up that money and keep a lot of it, using to to pay bonuses. Thus the commercial banks are shafting the public as the bound and humiliated central bank watches.
So….sucking, shafting, and humiliation. Got it lol. Thanks
Yes, not the average firm of accountants admittedly, but there it is.
lol…. luv the way u “explain” things, HG.. so technical and mechanical, as are you
HG
Re: Accounting firm
Your humour slays me. Not an easy task.
Much more enjoyable reading your explanation than what I found with Google search. Thank you 😉
Hi mary and ursula… mary i posted that wrong what my narc said was he liked thinking of me being a married woman wanting his dick in me being another guy other than my hubby. He doesnt bring up the fantasy of a threesome but before i was married i did have one with two guys. It was the most thrilling sex i ever had! Im glad i tried it but its not for everyone. It was during a party when i was in university in the wee hours. A bit tipsy lol it was fun tho. We used protection of course. Its odd bc im a shy type of girl and wouldve never imagined doing that!
As for a cuckold type situation i always thought that was more of a fantasy the spouse watching would want. They enjoy being humiliated while watching their spouse or so have sex with another. This to me would be a turn off with my hubby. Idk but it makes me feel dirty.
Narc and i play out many fantasies but i dont like anything having to do with my marriage involved. I find it disrespectful and it is a turn off. When he brings up fantasizing having sex in my marriage bed i do sense this is a form of degrading my boundaries. Altho he does have a fetish for married women. I think it boosts his ego he has the attention from a married woman and not on her husband. Its nothing to do with him being “better” than my hubby so hes kidding himself ego wise in that respect. Its more a void and issues in my marriage. The married target tho really does sum up why the narc gets a high or ego boost being with a married woman. I think hes never married bc deep down he feels he could never keep a marriage going. So hed rather have a string of married women to inflate his ego with a sense of false confidance. Regardless ive gotten to know the real parts of his personality good and bad and ive developed feelings for him. I know its a mistake and ill end up regretting but its how it is. Im also ashamed of it. I never thought id be unfaithful. Its something i never wanted to be.
Another fetish he has is womens asses. He worships a womans ass. And anal. Im not sure if this is a “narc” thing or just sexual fetish. My guess is its purely sexual preferences. The most prominent fetish tho is the married woman theme. I do know i was targeted for being married. I think for many reasons. A married woman serves his purpose bc he doesnt want committment and huge demands. Also he can keep a married hooked on him vs a single woman who wants things to progress to the next level. The two most revealing things ive learned from this site and hg’s writings is that im a secondary source and that i was targeted and why. Its like a puzzle and piece by piece its fitting together to reveal a complete picture. The only negative but positive is once you see the full truth you cant go back to ignorance and pretend it was what you once thought. Truth and knowledge change the relationship dynamic.
Mr. Tudor, can you please expand on what you mean about the flesh version of quantitative easing? I know the general term is to stimulate the economy by creating greater debt.
Please see answer given to SW.
What I find really disgusting is the thought – as someone had stated – that most narcs don’t like to use condoms, and I assume therefore also no protection when having oral sex, etc.
Considering that narcs hate touch and the thought of touching anything others have touched, this is pretty much contradictory once again, … just think of all the bacteria / pathogenic germs / virus / parasites / worms, etc. which get transferred to the narc’s body parts or his “partner’s” body parts and their tongues/mouths, etc…. Yuck!
HG: Why?? How do you bear that thought? ??
Thank Goddess that my exnarc was the opposite and my ex-narc-like-lover at least always used condoms and wouldn’t kiss.
Wow ive not read this blog before but its full of great info! So much of this explains my narc. I think each narc has different intentions. Mine from day one never tried to get me to leave my hubby in fact he looks at himself as the one thats glued things together. We talk of my marriage like friends and hes never tried to smear him or get me to leave him. I think hes content having longterm secondary source affairs. He doesnt want to ruin the marriage only get fuel and residual benefits. Hes also never taken money from me. Hes only ever been supportive and has never placed expectations on me. Im sure in his mind he feels no guilt bc we were both willing participants in the affair. I dont blame him other than the narcissistic tactics over the years.
Its worked out aside from the abuse but its also been a way to avoid dealing with problems and thats not been good. Its never good lying to your spouse or being unfaithful. Ive felt tremendous guilt over it but have had a hard time detaching from the narc for various reasons. I also love him despite the fact we will never marry and his npd. Eventually things will change as life always does but i hope were able to stay friends if thats possible. I just hope it doesnt end badly.
The narcs never married of had children. Ive asked him about his childhood. He came from a family of eight kids and hes admitted to some abuse between his parents but never in detail. I do wonder why someone would never want to get married or start a family unless they seen terrible abuse growing up.
Hello narc affair, that’s absolutely right! The narcissist I am involved with never married but lives in a firm relationship with an unattractive, but very wealthy woman. They have no children. He is a survivor of heavy childhood abuse. They often invite the children of other people into their house and act towards them as if they were their better parents…
My narc loves to use the children of other people as non-intimate-source, he loves to impress them, to play tricks on them and to play them against their parents… I am hoping for HG to give us an article about narcissists and children…
Ok. And, my narc is having many affairs with married women. He loves to cheat and he enjoys the feeling to undermine a marriage by getting a married woman unser his spell…
You are being used , of course it’s going to end badly .
you are correct, Bel….
Your situation is an affair. You were never the primary!! What he got off on was knowing he was fucking you. My narc got off on seducing his friends wifes or girlfriends. I would often say. He walks out the back door after sleeping with his friends wife/girlfriend and walk in the front door and have dinner at their family table. Major Fuel!!!
Yes, and they always count on your shame as part of what will keep you quiet. I know he was messing with many girls/women in relationships and he actively dogs others in relationships. He said to me once, when he wants something, he goes for it. He doesn’t care at all and he knows its selfish. Since he is without shame, can threaten you without an ounce of care or worry (he can’t feel those emotions), he knows he can weather any shame storm but you will not be able to. And you likely have more to lose than him. Shame and guilt are easy things to control another human with and they are ever present. And since you are perpetually kept in the dark about what is really going on, you can’t eve come clean to your main partner as you are deliberately misled. So this again keeps you bound to silence and from leaving.
Any woman to fuck a married man more than once and does not get her mortgage paid is a real special kind of person.
Sorry ladies, but I did have affairs with married men. And yes, they fulfilled my needs and it was not physical. It was an understanding. I know some of you will judge but get the fuck over it. I used them as they used me.
Trust me when I say, he is using you. And yes, he wife is still fucking him, unless she is dead.
I worked around men, hundreds of them and had 6 men three feet from me every day and I know them very well.
Lesson here is to not have an ongoing sexual encounter with a married man unless you are getting more than a dick. There are many dicks out there that do not have to run home to the wife.
The sad thing is when I responded to the narc’s friendship efforts, I was not looking to resolve anything in my marriage but had thought maybe after all these years, we could be friends. And yes, all marriages have issues. Including his own when he cheated on his wife. So imagine HIM saying he had no idea how many lonely people there were?
But when he started flirting, I called him on it. Asked if it was on pupose. Anyway, he was so ahead in his mind on everything that he announces to me one day he doesn’t want to be responsible for breaking up my marriage. Thing is, when I put it all together, all of his tricks, that was a trick in itself. He didn’t say that because he had a conscience or cared. It just made him look good. He liked the idea that he might pull it off. Then suddenly, “oh, can’t do that to my friend sarabella.”
But it was all a game, all that pretend care. He didn’t care one bit.
I also did tell my husband right away, so there was no fun in that then. No secret sneaking around, no game to make it fun but real right away. And of course, he ran.
My husbands friend does this to me every time he is in between relationships or devaluing his IPPS he will text me I love you. Leave your husband he is boring. You deserve better.
He says this stuff in front of my husband too.
Just the other day he told my husband he was gonna take me to the upcoming concert.
And my husband said that’s fine you take Serena because I am taking Sugar Shock. Then his friend said I want to take Sugar Shock you take Serena.
I laughed. Because Sugar Shock is the name my husband calls me when he thinks I am fun and exciting. And he refers to Serena as boring.
When I first met my husbands friend I was flattered. But I have known him for 8 years and I know about all the women he has slept with. I am not interested.
But that doesn’t stop him from trying.
Thanks for the article.
You are welcome.
Was his strategy. He knew I was caring but he manipulated it all for me to prove my worth and word. And when he wanted to slingshot me away, he would tell me to go care for my family. sick motherfucker.
The ex greater loved the married target. He would occasionally talk about married ex’s to prove to me that “he could talk to me about anything and that only I knew his deepest darkest secrets”…yes, I believed that. Anyway, his eyes would sparkle when talking about the part he played in destroying a marriage. He chuckled talking about one that filed for divorce and actually believed he was going to leave his own wife for her. I know you say narcs don’t feel joy but that’s the emotion I thought was emanating from him when he talked about it. Pure joy.
Narcy rutted the married office slapper in the stock room for six months. He maintains that she was the best shag of his life (nothing like a put down). When I pointed out he’d told me he’d never had an affair he replied it wasn’t an affair, it was a bit of fun. I learned his wife was at home looking after their young child and baby. I also learnt that this was the least worst of his marital transgressions.
Ahhh I remember this .. the ex husband the wonderful friend to he’s best friends wife , who I knew he was having an affair with . The ex narc partner destroyed the marriage of he’s co worker in the space of 6 weeks . A little 8 year old boys family was torn apart . All for the piece of shits pleasure .
Thank you for this article.
You are welcome.
Did you ever address the issue in item #6?
Do you mean have I ever stolen someone else’s partner? Yes.
I’m curious to read the soon to be in depth article on #6. From the situation I was in.