How No Contact Feels – Part Three



So to the Greater. What does the imposition of No Contact feel like to him and how does he respond to the threat of such an imposition? Let us begin with you telling the Greater that the Formal Relationship has ended and you convey this message in person. To set the scene, imagine a timid and apprehensive person stepping into the lair of the dragon. The black-scaled dragon, sulphuric fumes rising from him as he watches the advancing person, his glittering dark eyes are keen slits of observation. He misses nothing. This dragon is vast, an embodiment of power and destruction, long claws resting on the symbols of his magnificence, the low light gleaming on those impenetrable scales, the fangs protruding from the cavernous mouth. This dragon is in its domain and knows it rules all that it surveys as this nervous person approaches, message held in trembling hand. This dragon already knows what is written on that message, he is particularly perceptive and recognises from the demeanour and body language of the approaching person that this is not someone bearing good news, but rather the opposite. Yet, such is his power, his magnificence, he remains unperturbed. He knows his might.

“Yessssss,” he says in that charming purr of a voice as he indicates for the messenger to make his delivery. The messenger swallows and unfurls the scroll and starts to read. The dragon listens, impassive, no hint of what is going on beneath the surface is evident to anybody observing, but so much is happening. This is the scene when you decide to deliver the news to the Greater that the Formal Relationship is over.

The Greater will listen to you. Your nervousness, possible fearfulness and borderline apologetic behaviour is already fuelling him. If somehow you are able to muster anger to propel the delivery of your message, your bristling indignation fuels him too. He has no need to erupt like the Lesser. He will allow you to say your piece.

Be in no doubt that the Greater will not welcome this news at all. Your words may be fuelling him, tinged as they are with anger or fear, but your intended action is one huge criticism to him. You are daring to reject him. You have the audacity to tell him that it is over. This is igniting his fury but you will not see it because the Greater is able to exert significant control over this fury ( also aided by the fuelled words you are providing) and therefore whilst the fury is churning away under the surface, the Greater is calculating and evaluating. He will listen to what is said and understand your concerns. Of course he will not accept them. How dare someone as inferior as you seek to challenge and blame someone as mighty as him but nevertheless he is no fool and as a consequence he will listen to what is said ready to pick your words apart.

Remaining in control you can expect to receive a Preventative Hoover which is unparalleled amongst our kind. We do not want to lose you as a primary source of fuel, this would amount to an even greater criticism than the threat of you doing so. This would wound us and weaken us through the cessation of our primary source of fuel. Accordingly, we will deploy a Preventative Hoover. This will manifest to you as a major charm offensive. You can expect to be told: –

“Nobody loves you the way that I do and I could not bear to lose you.”

“Why destroy all this for the sake of an argument or two?”

“I have given you so much but this is just the start.”

“There is a whole world for you and I to conquer together.”

“People look at us and they are envious of what we have, you do know that don’t you?”

“Why sacrifice what we have? Ask yourself, is it really worth it?”

“Don’t listen to what they say, they do not know just how much my love for you burns now, after all this time. You are all that matters to me.”

“Don’t spoil things, just as we were making a start.”

“I adore you. I love you. You are the one for me.”

“There are so many others who would give anything to be with me, but do you know what? I do not want them. I want you.”

“Let’s not argue, let’s go to bed.”

Note that there is no contrition in these statements. The Greater is not going to accept any blame here, not even false contrition, not yet. Observe also that any concerns you may have expressed about our behaviour will have been relegated to a position of insignificance, brushed over and largely ignored. This is because in the mind of the Greater you are privileged to be with us and your complaints really ought not to be made. Instead, the Greater will rely on using his charm and magnetism to underline his love for you, how wonderful things really are being in a relationship with him and that in essence, you would be a fool to go anywhere else.

Allied to this charm the Greater will also unleash some additional future faking. The Greater loves bribery and the promise of magnificence. He has delivered already during the golden period and we know that you want this again, so we will dangle this promised land in front of you. You can expect to be told: –

“Look, let’s book a holiday, you can choose. We can go away and you will see how right you were to stay with me.”

“It is a pity that you feel this way because I was about to propose to you.”

“I am disappointed really as I was looking at houses only yesterday for us to buy together.”

“The future for us is bright, do you realise that? Few couples are so fortunate to have what we have.”

“You cannot do this. I said to myself only yesterday that I wanted to grow old with you.”

“I hope you reconsider as I wanted to take you on a shopping spree, after all you deserve to be treated don’t you?”

Promises, future treasures and delights all dangled in front of you and so, so tempting.

The Preventative Hoover that the Greater will use will feel almost like a monologue. You will not be allowed to depart. The Greater will position himself between you and the door, he will gently take you by the arm and lead you to sit down, he will lock the car doors if this conversation takes place there and he will take such steps to ensure you are not given the opportunity to walk away easily. He will not be aggressive in taking such steps, instead he will act with apparent warmth and gentleness, his mouth moving as he continues his charming speech so that you barely notice he is moving you away from the front door. The Greater will keep going and going and going. He has the cognitive function, the energy levels and also he will be feeding off the fuel you will be giving him. You cannot help but smile at the charming comments, the resurrection of memories you and he have together, your eyes will betray you and he will use that fuel to power this Preventative Hoover.

Whereas the Lesser uses violence to shock you into submission and prevent your departure, the Greater will grind you down. It is almost hypnotic how he will say the same thing but in a thousand different ways, touching you here and there, smiling, charming and eroding your will and resistance. He knows how good he is at doing this. He did it before when he deployed the seduction hoover in the very beginning. He will remind you of all the good things, using those matters he has filed carefully away, extracting them now as he creates a show reel of all the best parts of the relationship. Each time you try to raise a complaint, he will shush you into submission, his calculating mind knowing which reassuring expression to wear. The Greater adopts the position that you are just a silly fool who does not know better. That you might have had your head turned by the seditious whispers of others, but this is not a concern. He will dismiss concerns, wave away worries and downplay detractions. Everything is under control. He is the generous benefactor who knows the world far better than you and you should just smile, do as you are told and everything will be alright.

The Greater has a slight concern about the threat to his primary source of fuel, but it is only slight. The reality is that he finds your threat more amusing to him because it allows him a further opportunity to engage in what he enjoys doing; controlling people. Like that mighty dragon who knows he could crush the messenger in an instant or incinerate him with flaming breath in the blink of an eye, the Greater knows that he could lash out at the victim, but he is enjoying drawing the fuel from his drawn out Preventative Hoover. It entertains him to see that “kitty has claws” as you threaten to walk out and leave. We are not panicked, we remain in control and we are toying with you, nudging and coaxing you into changing your mind and remaining. This is why the charm offensive is unleashed. The Greater has no need, yet, to lash out, nor is he going to demean himself with pity plays, that is for weaker people than him. No, this threat will be extinguished by him engaging in charm, a peacock’s performance and once you have been worn down into submission and changed your mind, his supremacy his affirmed, his primary source is secured and all is well as the golden period is reinstated. Understand though as the Greater leads you by the hand up the staircase to allow you to experience that passion between the sheets once again (causing you to believe that make-up sex is wonderful) he will shoot a glance at the mirror and those eyes will glint with malevolence. You have the golden period once again but your treachery has been noted and you will be punished for it once the devaluation starts again. You will be reminded of your foul traitorous behaviour and made to pay for it. We do not forget such things.

What though if this charm offensive for once fails us? This is the fourth time you have sought to escape and armed with superior knowledge and having undertaken proper preparation you are determined to see this through. How does the impending No Contact feel when you turn and walk towards that door?

The Greater will not apply a sob story. He will save those for the Follow Up Hoovers in due course when he is truly feeling sorry for himself at the loss of fuel. Instead, once the Greater realises that persuasion and charm has not worked and you are intent on leaving, the effect of this criticism starts to take its toll on us. Our control is beginning to slip. Not completely. There is no sudden eruption of fury like the lesser but instead the mask of control slips and you will be subjected to malice. It is rare (although not unheard of) for the Greater to use physical violence. If he does it is more along the lines of pushing, pulling, a raised fist (but one which does not connect), spitting or a sudden grasp of the throat or a slap. The intention is not to cause significant physical harm because the Greater regards that as beneath him. He is also alive to the need to avoid harming his plausible deniability by leaving evidence of physical violence. Instead he manifests it as a threat of what he is capable of, of what might happen if he is pushed. Hissed threats will be made as you try to leave: –

“You can expect to lose your job if you walk out on me, I will see to it.”

“I will report you to your regulatory body if you leave.”

“Those videos will be plastered all over the internet.”

“Do you really want your parents to see those photographs and see their princess taking on three men at once?”

“Be a shame if some drugs turned up in your car wouldn’t it?”

“You can kiss good-bye to your licence to practise if you go through that door.”

The Preventative Hoover will shift from charm to malice in an instant, pushed by your move towards exiting and cutting off the primary supply of fuel. If you respond to these threats with fear, anger, defiance or upset, you will provide fuel and this will encourage the greater to continue. Whereas before he engaged in charm to wear you down, we will now engage in using malice to frighten you into submission and we will keep going and going until you have either given in or walked out.

If you give in we will be delighted and we will welcome you back to the fold with open arms, exhibiting the magnanimity that we believe we possess. You made a mistake, of course you did, but like a sinner who has come to repent, you are forgiven (but not really) and you are treated like a naughty child who has seen the error of her ways. The golden period is reinstated once again but there will be a price to pay further down the line.

Should you evade the charm offensive and also the malicious assault and still walk away from the Greater then one of two things will happen. Generally, with Lower Greaters an Initial Grand Hoover will shortly follow. The Formal Relationship has ended. The Greater wants his primary source back and therefore he will launch an IGH combining charm with contrition. The Upper Greater will be wounded by this cessation of fuel and mortally offended that someone could both decide to leave him and fail to succumb to his masterful powers. This will result in the Greater erupting in a frenzy. He will deploy smear campaigns against the victim, rally his coterie and lieutenants to ensure that repeated malign follow-up hoovers are launched. This is done with the intention of making your life a complete and utter misery so that you come crawling back asking for it to stop.

If the Initial Grand Hoover fails to charm/pity you into returning or the malicious campaign fails to batter you into submission then we will be placed into Chaos Mode as our fuel levels drop. Three things are placing us under considerable pressure at this point.

  1. Our fuel levels are dropping because there is no longer a primary source;
  2. We have used up energy through the IGH or malign hoovers;
  3. The criticism from losing you and failing to restore you as a primary source has wounded us considerably.

Unlike the Lesser or Mid-Range who would risk entering depression and stupor at this point, the Greater still has sufficient resources to launch a survival bid. We will drain our supplementary sources of fuel turning to friends, family, colleagues and so forth as we frantically find a new primary source and once done we will achieve stability. Given the higher cognitive function of the Greater, the increased charm levels and calculating ability, we have the best chance at using these supplementary sources of fuel to power the seduction of a new primary source. Once that has been achieved there is stability and in due course consideration will turn (subject to the spheres of influence) to hoovering you again.

What happens if you fail to stand before us to deliver the message of cessation? Indeed, given the lengths we will go to as you have read above, if you do decide to escape a Greater you ought not to deliver the news in person. If you send a message or allow us to work it out that you have escaped, then the immediate reaction of the Greater will be to be wounded. The failure to realise you were on the cusp of leaving highlights a weakness in our perception and the fact you have chosen to leave us reinforces that you regard us as sub-standard, deficient in some way and it is a huge criticism. The fury will ignite but the Greater will still remain in control, but not for long. His immediate response will be to launch an Initial Grand Hoover to get you back using charm and on this occasion there will be more pity involved because the wounding will be greater.

If this IGH does not work, the wound increases, the fury becomes too great and the Greater will lose control and lash out with malign hoovers in order to draw fuel and stabilise or to cause you to come crawling back. If no fuel is yielded or you do not return, then the Greater will be pushed into Chaos Mode as described above and will drain supplementary sources and secure a new primary source as quickly as possible,

What if you have read my works and not only prepared for your departure but you have executed it in such a way that the Greater cannot even contact you. The IGH does not even get off the ground. The malign hoovers cannot be deployed because you cannot be contacted. In such an instance the Greater is in real danger because he has suffered repeated wounding criticisms: –

  1. He did not anticipate the danger which offends his sense of omnipotence;
  2. He has lost his primary source of fuel and is not only weakened by that but wounded by being so careless;
  3. He could not contact the primary source and thus has been outwitted; and
  4. His usual responses have been rendered impotent.

In such an instance the Greater will turn to supplementary sources immediately and secure a new primary source. It is usually the case (for the reasons outlined above) that the Greater is able to secure a new primary source pretty quickly and therefore achieve stability. If on the rare occasion this does not happen and there are no supplementary sources available to sustain him the construct will crumble and the Creature will be unleashed. The Greater will sink into a severe depression, almost becoming catatonic as his construct which he wanted the world to see has collapsed and the very thing which he does not want to be unleashed has escaped. I would reinforce that this is extremely rare because of the Greater’s ability to use supplementary sources and secure a primary source. Achieving the consignment to oblivion of the Greater through No Contact is very rare.

Suffice to say a successful departure and implementation of No Contact will almost slay the dragon and will result in the Greater becoming preoccupied with healing the wounds you have caused and focussing on his new primary source, giving you a period of respite, until such time as the conditions become right for further follow-up hoovers, but that is a different story.



  1. Hello all, of either pursuasion.

    I have been reading quietly, for months. Sifting though libraries of information, where nothing quite “fit” my situation.

    I have been trying to find the exact reference for my nemesis. Then I find narcsite.

    And here it is. Where is has been. Just waiting for me and “my kind” to discover it.

    My nemesis, a Greater.

    I am empowered by knowing this and I wish that I knew about this personality type, before my torture began.

    How clear all the smug “hints” seem now.
    No longer will one thousand comments, actions or odd scenarios consume me and drag me into the pits of insomnia.

    Thank you, Mr. Tudor, for making all the confusing things become as clear as crystal.

    What a gift you have given to all, by extending your hand.

    I am delighted to learn.

  2. HG, which is more injurious to an upper greater? Simply vanishing from his life (changing my routes around campus so I never/rarely encounter him) or walking past him on campus and ignoring him as I pass him by? Thank you for your perspective!

    1. Vanishing. It will infuriate him that you are beyond his reach. You ignoring him on campus will wound only slightly and lead him to see that there is a challenge to accept.

      1. Thank you! Your posts have been such help. Your writing style is also particularly intriguing. If I may ask one last question? I’ve been particularly impressed by your fairy tale type stories. You are obviously an exceptional writer. Do you write fiction as well?

        1. Thank you Anna. I wrote Narcissist Seduction and Narcissist Ensnared which are fiction. I have written other material which is fiction outside of the sphere of narcissism and psychopathy but I have not published anything of it. Since you enjoyed the ‘fairy tale’ stories, keep an eye out for Narc Tales.

  3. “Do you really want your parents to see those photographs and see their princess taking on three men at once?”
    Lol a scene orchestrated by none other than the Greater, himself. What she assumed was a sexual adventure that would please him was really just collateral deposited in his blackmail piggy bank.
    Mr. Tudor, does the Greater know how to fine-tune his threats to significantly impact his source?
    Ex. Your statement above would be horrific to a woman who is the head of her church choir, a Kindergarten teacher, active in her community, and a loving caring daughter. It may not have the same effect on every woman. Some might not care.
    All in all – any and all actions can and will be used against you in the court of Narc.

  4. You know that narcissist lady who used to post here?
    She knew what she was, but didn’t seem to shine as bright or be as sophisticated as a greater. How would you classify her?

          1. How could you forget one of the originals, Cara? Had the mother who reminded you of Howard’s on Big Bang with the stories she’d share. She wasn’t a nurse though.

          2. Oh I remember Cara, Clarece. It was reference to Carla and being a nurse which did not ring any bells. Yes, Cara always commented vis a vis her mother – as you wrote, it always put me in mind of Howard’s mother from the big bang.

          3. Would you say she is a lesser-greater? One thing you may find amusing, she put ‘submissive’ on her wordpress profile, which is of course a total lie.

          4. Who? If you mean the person you mentioned earlier, as I wrote, I do not recall who you are talking about, hence I cannot write what she is.

      1. I liked Cara. She was down to earth. I also liked the other narc lady Lailani. I wonder where they went.
        Brian – Cara once stated that female narcs will be whatever their target desires. I.e. victim, submissive, etc.
        I remember Bloody Elemental stating a few times that I and others had a problem with her because she was a female narc. Obviously that was incorrect because I liked the narc ladies on this blog – they didn’t try to put on a show. And my real life female friends are mostly narcs. They are charismatic.

    1. Love- yes in the beginning they are quite capable of giving lurid descriptions of what they are like, and what they like to do…. but in the end you realise none of it is true.

      1. As a secondary non intimate source, I’m able to enjoy my friendships with female narcs. I get a long golden period and don’t have to deal with their abuse. Majority of them have lots of friends and can rotate. When they start raging, I step back putting a pause on our friendship. Yet they always win me over again. Even if it has been a year or two. It is their charm. I however would never wish an empathic primary source on any of these friends. It would be quite awful … I’ve only had glimpses of their fury. The primary would get all of it and then some.

        1. There is the undercurrent of fury, but they need plausible deniability.
          So they provoke in a very skillful way.
          They are capable of doing a lot of provocation in front of their coterie because they have ‘set the stage’ for what they are saying.
          I’ve trained myself to not let them escalate any conversation into an argument.
          If I feel there is something they are doing that is bad, I just let them do it for a while in front of their coterie then make a big show of pointing it out in front of everyone.
          They have to then stop to preserve their facade :_)

          1. Great job Brian. It is much easier to do when you’re a secondary. However, as a primary, all your emotions are on the surface. It is very difficult to maintain control of the situation.

          2. When you don’t know what’s going on , yes.
            If I wasn’t emotional I wouldn’t have made it to IPPS :D

        2. if it wasn’t for this blog I’d be getting into traumatising arguments and watching youtube videos made by victims.
          The videos made by victims are nice for validation and venting but nothing beats getting the inside scoop from HG :)

  5. Hi HG,

    I have read a ton of your articles, and from your expertise along with online sources and therapist’s opinions, my ex does sound like a narcissist. Specifically, based on your articles, he sounds like a Greater. Some of the things are so spot on that it’s scary. However, one main difference is that when I threatened to end things (ending the romantic relationship and saying we should just be friends, saying I need space, then going no contact and blocking him), he always acts like he does not care. He always finds a way to come creeping back into my life, though. But how can you explain this act of not caring rather than trying to charm me to stay? It feels as though he is too prideful to show he cares when I try to end things. Does this mean he isn’t a narcissist?

    1. That in itself does not mean he is not, but I would need more information in order to ascertain whether he is actually one and which school.

    2. Narcissistic people don’t need anyone and will prove it to you, you need them, not the other way around. They don’t have to have a full-on clinical narcissistic personality disorder to be narcissistic, which is also cultural. It’s very normal, for example, for masculine identity to be ‘autonomous’ and ‘invulnerable’ and not show their emotions and for the feminine/role partner to do the emotional, moral work for the relationship or be seen as a sexual commodity for the noncommittal pleasure of conquest, a a reflection of male status. In some cases, showing emotion will mark you as the needy one, if a person is very egocentric and in denial of their feelings. If a person who plays fair with you in a relationship is not interested and doesn’t reciprocate your feelings and you haven’t been pushy or done things to hurt them, they should just tell you, straight up, without power games that make you feel worthless.

  6. Mine would say “I’m not ready to throw in the towel”. That is so laughable now, but back then I thought it was sincere. How uncreative using a boxing metaphor.

  7. There were times I would try to leave the ex-greater. My motive was not to be free but to hope that he would beg me not to do so. I was always terrified of having the conversation and he knew that. I would say “I need to say this” and he would know what was coming. His eyes would revert back to the way he looked at me during the golden period. So adoring and understanding.

    “I can’t do this anymore”…he would smile and look at me so tenderly and say “sweetheart, I want you to do whatever is best for you…that is truly all that matters to me…I love you”. No begging me not to go, just the offer of total freedom. Every single time I braced myself for leaving he would turn into the most loving person I’d ever seen. No anger or threat would ever show on the outside. Complete and total control at all times.

    Then he’d stroke my hair barely trailing down onto the side of my cheek. “This is going to work out…you’ll see…just a little more time, my love.”

    Within 24 hours things would go back to exactly the way they were and I would persevere again to leave for good this time. This time will be different.

          1. I don’t understand why you are so brutal with me.
            I’m unable to hate you, I’d like to though ..

  8. I am prepping to go into Supernova. I have 1-2 weeks before his hoover begins (narc hoovering me). I hoovered him last week until he was annoyed and I have now implemented silent treatment. Which of your books should I read to help me prepare machinations against my low level elite narcissist (of course now he belongs to me and is low level because he is not as sophisticated as you HG)? He is married and I disengaged (?) stating I do not toy with married men. (Please correct me if I misuse your terminology). HG you are divine! I love your desire to arm the empaths to war again the narcissists… great way to eliminate potential competition!

  9. All I could think of was donkey saying, a giiiirrrrrlllll dragon. Then I appear. Heehee. Picturesque writing, lovely HG. 🐲

  10. Mmm… I thought my narc was a lesser Greater but now I’ve read this I’m not so sure…. When I argued with him early in the relationship and said I was leaving him, he listened intently sipping coffee, paying me no mind. When I finally walked for good he didn’t Hoover me and certainly never said/did a charm offensive as you describe above. He always had bouts of fury but could often be ice cold in demeanour and logic. He employed the silent treatment a lot too. I thought I knew his Classification so-to-speak, but your blog, HG has me totally confused…

  11. I’m preparing to go No Contact today with my greater narc and am wondering if I should turn my read receipts on so he can see right away when I read his messages and ignore them or just flat out block him which he will also realize on the iPhone when his messages turn green instead of blue on the screen. We are just in the beginning our third month and he is waiting a longer time to respond between texts and sometimes no texts at at all just recently. He has cancelled a few times and tried to reschedule. I have a feeling he is not going to acknowledge our upcoming plans this wednesday so I want to go no contact now while he has no idea. I still have all my strength and just want to escape early before he has a chance to cancel our date, devalue and disengage. I want to get the most revenge. HG, what are your thoughts on which way to start no contact is more wounding. Should I turn the read receipts on? I will 100% NOT respond to anything he writes.

  12. Lol at “he will forgive you (but not really)”… and it’s so true. You’ll hear the same tiny violin for years for any perceived slights, yet they’ll destroy your very soul 😆

  13. H.G.
    I love this article and wish I had all of this knowledge before I escaped. Because I seriously had no other plan then to just get as far away as possible.
    Since I did everything bassackward I’ve hit a few brick walls (not all directly linked to him..kind of like when it rains it pours) I did not prepare for the terrible misery that leaving him woukd cause me, I constantly break No Contact (I’m not as bad as I was) I feel like I’ve left something undone, and I like everything neat and tidied up with a bow.
    He has made it more than clear, rather harshly, that he does not want me back, and that all of this is my fault . So perhaps all of my desperate begging made him sick to his stomach and “lose all respect “(notice it’s in quotes) for me and he truly means that. I know I’ve spoken to you before about some of my issues with him, but today he paid one of my bills..what does That mean? From total contempt for me for 6 weeks to paying my bill..My little pea brain is not computing. What does it mean?

    1. That act of payment is because :-

      1. Compartmentalisation and split thinking – from black to white in a moment.
      2. Facade maintenance – “She betrayed me I still help her out, yeah, I guess I am just a good guy when all is said and done.”
      3. Debt creation – he paid your bill but it will cost you all the same.
      4. Control – he is exercising it over part of your affairs
      5. Ever presence reinforcement – this act reminds you of him
      6. Confusion creation – hence you questioned it and designed to try to stop you move forward
      7. Planting a seed – because it will grow into an Obligation Tree and he will bring it up in due course and remind you of his generosity and your lack of gratitude

      1. i had wondered the same, about why they send a check every now and then and now everything you said to Jody Allen puts it all in perspective….. however, I do not acknowledge the occasional bones he throws my way… truly, it is all about the Facade Maintenance. he will never let anyone know how he spent down all my resources first, though!

      2. Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my questions. I know that you’re a very busy man, and for whatever it’s worth, I appreciate it very much.
        It’s amazing that so much thought goes into one act, that brain must be always cranking away. #2 sounds exactly what he would say, and probably use it for future smears to friends, etc (See? I’m learning). I love the Obligation Tree terminology, you should use it more often. I do know that bill he paid is a huge step to me moving forward, so the price will probably pretty high.
        I don’t pretend to understand what he could gain from me, besides fuel (not even good fuel right now) but I guess we’ll see when it comes back down to dicussions of my personal belongings.
        Thank You Again~
        PS: Live Stream was fantastic! I hope you plan on doing more!

      3. “The (debt) seed will grow into an obligation tree”.
        I LOVE this! How beautifully put HG. I’m absolutely making it mine…starting now!

          1. Yeah, you tell yourself that! After all the traits you’ve been stealing, you’ll have to let this one go.
            In fact, I’ll raise you “Kitty has claws” also. Deal with it! 

    2. I break no contact every day at the moment. Usually i forward mr. Tudor’s articles and pictures when I’m really angry. Lol

      1. Amber,
        Please do not beat yourself up about breaking NC. I’m good for every couple of days now, but at first it was every day, several times a day and although I knew it was wrong and feeding him fuel. He wouldn’t even respond to me for the first 10 days after I left. It drove me crazy, because he knows I hate to be ignored. Then it was the blame game and word salad, more gaslighting (his favorite form of torture) and his asinine story that didn’t accept any responsibility.
        This hiccup will pass, I promise. If you keep reminding yourself that you are not benefitting yourself but benefitting him greatly. ♡♡♡

        1. That’s us exactly! So frustrating. It’s like a compulsive battle i have to win. But at least since I’ve found mr. Tudor’s channel, site, and such great advice from his followers, I’m getting happier and happier all the time i guess, so even now when i try to drag him back into the battle, I’m laughing the whole time. In the beginning when we would fight, even if i would leave, i would cry for days relentlessly. Now I’m just smiling. It’s like a game. I think I’ve taken on too much of what he’s taught me. He trained a soldier and i don’t know how to disengage from that role. But so, yes… ty for reminding me it’s just fuel in his twisted head. I can let the battle go.

        1. He’s much better at managing his temper, so i get silence sometimes. Other times, he’ll tell me the article is about me and bemoan the fact that in his twisted head, HE’S the victim. Then he’ll send “rebuttal” articles from MGTOW channels or misogynistic sites about professional victims. Rarely, he simply snaps to not send him anything from mr. Tudor again. I of course ignore that because i have just like to bring things to his attention. Just as a favor, you know. 😇

    3. My discard was last Monday and Im a week into it and feel like Im dying and I know if I fall for him again…..which I wont cuz i cant but I wud lose more than what I’ve lost with him…..but both my land and his is connected….mine had the home and is owned by me alone but the rest of our land is his and where our barn, garden and chickens are…..and every extra minute he has is spent there so Im still gonna have to deal with him….both our familes lives within 2 miles from eachother… I am cluess as to how Im going to get thro this bc I am currently unable to go home…..just pulling in our driveway paralyzes me and i cant breath….but still I eventually have to go home…..there are two things left he needs to get out and one I have to be with him cuz he has the only key and it has my birth cert and important stuff like that… am i gonna do this meeting especially when my replacement he took on a 3 day trip to he and myself and our daughters and his parents go…..he has been with her this whole weekend…..basking in his new love and he just made company at the new coal mines he started back in Feb which is when it all hit the roof…..I have been replaced and he is requesting i go file divorce which i am but he says he is sorry things didnt work out that they never knew but before he left on this trip he said he came home after work that night to see if me and girls wanted to go and luckly i was not there and the next morning I messaged him and told him Home, you lost your home snd havent stayed her for 3 nights and Your trip….take 20 homewrecking whores for all i care……tho it’s absolutely drove me flipping insane I know he will be back within a few miles tmrrw and i dont know what to do

      1. This may not work for you, but I’d run back home with a friend at an hour when he shouldn’t be out in the garden. Grab both his things and take the one to a locksmith to get it open (tell him you can’t find the key). Take out your important papers and have a third party drop both his things off to him (not the friend who went with you to the house).

        Good luck to you! Stay here and keep us updated. The first two months are the hardest. I walked away from my home, too and didn’t go back for months. My husband was still in it and he totally trashed it out, lowered its market value by over 60%. At least your ex isn’t in your house. I ended up selling mine. I’d lived there in hell for over 20 years and everything was too tainted by memories. I could never live there again.

        I’ll keep you in my prayers/thoughts and be sending you positive energy, Kelli VF!⚡️⚡️⚡️

      2. Without going into my own personal details…. if he wants divorce, why not let him file and then you get an attorney that will make him pay your fees, and ask for exclusive rights to YOUR HOME! I don’t know what state you live in and laws vary. Can you involve police to assist you? As Windstorm experienced her home getting trashed and devalued, I would recommend getting exclusive rights to the home… it’s yours And let the courts & attorneys work on the rest. Also, ask for maintenance while the action is pending… just my 2 cents worth…. please be safe!

    4. Jody, it is hard to maintain the no contact. Some tricks I used initially was to change his name in my phone to Narcissist to serve as a constant reminder of who he is. Thanks to HG’s work, I feel empowered and I value myself enough to maintain the “no contact.” YOU ARE WORTH IT AND YOU DESERVE TO BE TREATED WITH LOVE AND RESPECT! Big hug!!

      1. Very Creative Sookie!!
        I think I will do the same thing, thank you!
        I am trying to become more empowered and she’d all of my denial, still. But I no longer feel that I am going to die, believe me I completely agree with and sympathize with anyone who has gone/or is going through that feeling because that’s the only way to describe it.
        Thank you for reinforcing the self worth that I need to be feeling within myself.
        Hugs to you♡♡

      2. I would get a graphic photo online to remind me, such as a domestic abuse survivor, to use for his profile pic, to stop me from contacting him, even though he never hurt me, or a funny one, about how mean he is, to make me laugh and help me detach. Either way, they both replicated the “devaluing” process mr. Tudor describes that the narc goes through. It doesn’t come to me naturally so i have to psych myself up. Lol

      3. Jody, that is already a step in the right direction! I wish you the very best and know you are capable of and will maintain NO CONTACT! You’ve got this!!

  14. I am still confused whether my ex was a mid range or the greater. He used to say “Nobody will ever love you like I do” and he did definitely turned to his secondary source once I discarded him and continuosly tried to suck me back in.

    On the other hand, there was a lot of silent treatment, a lot of fury, name calling, sulking and most of all – he was trying to convince me and the entire world that he is such a good man.

    HG could you write more about differences between Mid-Rangers and the Greaters?

    1. I can, I would comment that on what you have written there he is Mid Range. Keep in mind also Greaters are rare and MMR and UMR do have some charm and a little calculation.

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