Why Yes Is Not Always Best
Lots of people have trouble with saying no. It carries with it the connotation of negativity, obstruction and disappointment. People much prefer to say yes. I know that you and your kind really do struggle with saying no. You prefer to be regarded as a can-do kind of person, positive and accommodating. You also find it difficult to say no to people as you really do not like to see the disappointment on their face should you respond in this way. It makes you feel bad and accordingly, you either avoid saying it in the first place or you change your mind if you have said it. Occasionally, you will take refuge in the realm of uncertainty.
“I will think about it.”
“We shall see.”
“Let me reflect and I will come back to you.”
“I just need to check something, but I think it should be okay.”
You want to say no, but you find that you are unable to and therefore you trot out one of these insipid responses and ultimately you will end up saying yes. We know this is a common trait of yours and something we rely on and play on. We are aware that you do not like to say no and therefore we will press and cajole to ensure you say yes. Do not make the mistake of thinking that we need your validation and approval. Far from it. We do what we want. We like to hear you say yes because it underlines our power over you. We can always make you say yes. Sometimes you do it straight away (especially if we have you conditioned correctly). On other occasions it requires some persuasion and in the remainder of cases we need to pull out our manipulative tool kit to achieve the desired result, but we always get there. You are designed to say yes, we programme you to say yes and you do so even if it is ultimately detrimental to you. You feel you need to please and that need is greatest when it comes to us.
By contrast we are firm disciples of the word “no”. It is a word of strength. It is commanding and authoritative. Those who can say no have fortitude, steel and resilience. We say it regularly. We are untroubled by the fallen expression, the noises of disappointment and pleading. In fact, should you beg and plead we will just keep saying no and sit back and enjoy the fuel that you provide to us by your behaviour. Beseech us, blackmail us, bribe us and bombard us with requests, nay, demands to say yes and every time we will bat you back with a firm no as we savour your increasing anger, frustration and upset.
We do not associate the word no with negativity. We see it as a positive word. It is one that enables us to assert and maintain our superiority. We are able to use it to control you and keep you in your place. We are fully aware that whoever is on the receiving end of the word no automatically feels bad because they have been denied something.
“No I do not want to have dinner with you tonight.”
“No, you cannot borrow my car this evening.”
“No, you cannot go out with your friends tomorrow evening.”
It takes guts and integrity to say no. You struggle to say it because you are used to being exploited and taken for granted. You may try and dress it up as being someone who always helps and is a facilitator but the reality is you end up being used. Notice how in those instances above where I stated no, I did not give a reason for the refusal, I just said no. That takes real strength. I do not need to fall into providing explanations for my decision. It is my decision, the answer is no, that is an end to it. I can do this because I am not accountable. I can do this because I do not feel bad when witnessing the disappointment of others. This enables me to achieve more and avoid being burdened unnecessarily.
You can learn a lot from my use of the word no. Just do not think of ever using it towards me. That’s a big no.
137 thoughts on “Why Yes Is Not Always Best”
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HG,
You should make narc boot camp lmao
Narc retreats
You could make more money than Mathew Hussey…
Any thoughts on the Huss? Lmao
Interestingly, I was discussing such “experts” with a reader recently who was asking about the necessity of tips to use for dating and “acquiring” a romantic partner. I am going to be writing about this, but there are two main points :-
1. If you deploy such techniques to “attract” a person, you are behaving like us; and
2. You as empathic or normal individuals really do not need them. What you need to know is who to AVOID and indeed that includes those using techniques that these supposed experts use. Avoid those people and you will have no problem finding genuine and long-lasting relationships and avoid the love frauds.
OMG Dr. Q, “The Huss” shows up on my FB news feed often. He was what I was first turning to at the first signs of JN’s icy/hot Jekyll and Hyde treatment along with silent treatments. He is everything combined on what HG counters on his articles about mainstream relationship advice. Hussey is creating future stepford girlfriends and wives. Always be positive. Give space but not too much space, so you’re not deemed a nag but still seem trustworthy. Everything on the female to fix. No accountability for the guy’s actions or that he’s the one who needs fixing. Oh no, the guy is simply trying to find his prime candidate in which to make the mother of his children with his magical dick.
It totally perpetuated the thinking for another year of my life that JN kept reappearing because he really cared about me but was scared of our age gap or whatever commitment-phobe reason sounded right. In that year, JN upped the ante on lots of manipulation keeping me in a fog, taking verbal beat downs and always trying to fix something but not quite knowing what.
Hussey is a POS. I hope to God, HG can go mainstream and obliterate him off the planet. I’ll run the marketing department! Lol
Hg approves
Good, get on it! Lol
Clarece …. don’t hold back
That was awesome
Lolllll That guy is just bad for America as a whole!
Do I ever hold back?
He’s a matchmaker I think too?
I wonder if he has a girlfriend – I ask because most people would think that a matchmaker would have one if they are giving advice like that
Or maybe he needs to appear single?
He’s probably a Dirty Angel Upper Mi-Ranger who thinks he’s doing good turning women into doormats and is clueless.
Hello again, HG. Would you be so kind as to answer an inquiry for me if your time allows? I am still learning about my Empathy and the Narcs in my life. I want to make sure I avoid your kind at all costs!
How many Greater Elites are out there? Is there a ratio?
Your knowledge and years of experience manipulating and using us Empaths would be most appreciated! Gratitude. 🙂
Hello Dark Angel K. There is no empirical evidence which would provide data as to the number of Greater Elites, but as a proportion of the narcissistic population I would suggest 5-10%.
Interesting discussion here!
Even i have trouble saying ‘no.’ I always provide an explanation, or an alternative, eg. ‘Maybe not this time but how about in a few wks?’ I just don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings. So i end up doing activities ‘in a few wks’ that i normally wud not do. I need to take the assertiveness training too.
My ex mid-ranger wud say ‘i can’t’ more than ‘no’ when i asked him when we wud see each other next. He never used to give an explanation, but when i told him it hurts me, he started giving me explanations eg. I have to finish an assignment, i don’t feel like driving etc.
No it isnt necessary to see or know someone on here… that remark has been made in relation to misunderstanding or misinterpreting “a tone.”
HG simply wrote two words naive and weak implying that was his view of Us.
We have every right to ask him to expand and every right to an opinion or to disagree or to clarify.
The remark about knowing people and hearing people on here shouldn’t be taken out of context because the remark is in relation to the tone of the reply and the difficulty in judging the tone of the reply can lead to misunderstanding when it is particularly short and sharp.
That’s all it means by it is difficult when you cannot see or hear a person sometimes to judge their tone, accordingly questions are asked.
HG encourages questions and says all questions will be answered.
Personally from my original question I feel I had every right to ask him what he meant by Simply stating two words when referring to empaths.
He is entitled to believe or state we or whoever is weak and naive in his worldview.
And other people are allowed to disagree for whatever reasons they have in their world view… a point recently raised is that to disagree with the Host on other sites you end up sent to Coventry I’m happy to say this isn’t one of those sites and we’re all allowed our opinion – in our own perspectives and world views.
All perspectives are equally valid.
Debbie I hear you loud and clear. 🤓😁
Amen to that last sentence 😋
Hi DebbieWolf,
I agree we are all allowed our opinions and or questions on here due to the Host.
I just want to say, it isn’t nesessary to see or hear or know a person on a forum to apply the knowledge and wisdom to your own specific scenario. I do not see any purpose in knowing anyone here, to obtain, understand and apply the knowledge from HG is not relevant to knowing other readers in a personal manner…
I get more and more proficient at saying no and setting boundaries as the days roll on…
Now…I’m all about ‘yes’ until it negatively impacts me. When I am being violated, hurt, or just taken advantage of no comes flying out of my mouth prettt damn easily now.
Hg
What do you mean naive and weak?
You’re the one who said the Golden period is so all consuming .. if we were to say we would never be caught out again it would be you that said our complacency was our downfall like you said before.
The ties that bind afterall …bind.
it’s rather harsh to say we are weak and naive if I’m understanding you correctly??
if I have misunderstood that’s one thing but if I haven’t misunderstood then I find your comment unhelpful and counterproductive.
Afterall there’s not much of a conquest conquering the naive and the weak in the first place is there? so if anybody gets caught out again they are injured and still healing. And still needing to learn more. if people do not understand yet it may take them longer to learn I think it’s inaccurate to call it weak and I completely disagree.
I believe HG was referring to my comment and question to him that people still are not learning and understanding, after being on this site, and I asked, does it enrage him…He, giving us the truth, and tools, yet still there are many here that seemingly do not “learn” or “grasp” what he is saying!!! Some are expressing weakness & desire to succumb to a former Narc and or perhaps wanting to “try out” a Greater…. In that aspect, yes, weak and naive would apply… if you are learning and understanding here, then you would be becoming STRONGER and WISER….
* I am not specifically directing this at you, Debbiewolf, but at all that have commented on what HG replied to my specific question.
* MLA…. he’s not implying you are “still” weak…. its comments that go through here from ppl that inspite of what he tells us time & time again, are still not “getting” it…. they will succumb, then “cry” they’ve been hurt again… yes, this is being weak & naive…
** Now, i soooo know if i am off base here, HG will set it strait away, as he always does….
Correct. You have interpreted my reply accurately
I almost want to take that as a compliment, but I know better… I am not an idiot, naive nor no longer weak, because I understand and apply knowledge that YOU have provided me with… so as always, thank you, HG💔 Going off grid for a few days…..
Hello C*
Thank you for Clarifying.
I appreciate you explaining it because I am still learning all the time.
That’s the beauty of the commenters on here they help each other.
C star I almost spit my drink out
“Try a Greater out”
C star
Those that still flirt and don’t seem to be learning, they are not ready to accept things. They need this outlet and it is very understandable as to why they have directed this attention on to HG. He is charming, intelligent, has validated them, they have formed an attachment to him because of this. It is a normal process of growth, it will happen for them when the time is right. Just because another has more awareness over another makes them no better.
I said this in another area it is better for them to be giving this attention to him here where it is safe then to another outside of this blog and become entangled again and have their world ripped apart yet again.
I just get pissed off with the I am better and competing as if this is game.
Hi C! I understood that. I also know HG explains things from his “world view” generally speaking to the masses. I can accept from his world view how that can be viewed naive. I was countering him from my world view on why I won’t accept weakness.
I can completely understand how and why HG’s comment was interpreted that way; however I personally interpreted it more the way Cstar did.
I can see why HG perceives things way he does and feels the way he feels generally speaking. According to his perspective he is probably baffled at times as to why some people continue to engage in certain behaviors with their narc or seek out a greater narc despite the cold hard truth that he serves to Everyone. It is as if some people are in denial and other have their own emotional struggles as they cope with what happened to them.
HG is a narcissistic psychopath – emotional thinking is alien to him. I do believe what he said was misinterpreted but then again it’s so easy for anything to get misinterpreted via writing on a forum where we can’t hear or see people.
I engage in my own weirdo behavior because of my own reasons which pertains to my need for higher levels of stimulation and someone understanding a part of me that typical men do not.
I think it’s beneficial to just think about why you engage in the behaviors you engage in with your narc.
What wounds arent healed?
Some people are craving acceptance…
That is when you have to ask why?
Others are struggling with cognitive dissonance…
You get the point.
Indeed Dr HQ…hello.
Yes. it is often difficult at times on a forum as you say when you cannot see or hear the person’s tone etc. particularly when only seeing two or three words from HG that fired up the question to him.
I don’t usually ask questions very often and I appreciate those who have responded.
What He “said” was not misinterpreted , it was misunderstood by readers and commentators on this blog…
Hugs!
Just trying to help communication flow as clearly as possible and trying to keep the peace…
🤓
“…so if anybody gets caught out again they are injured and still healing…”
You are absolutely right, Debbie.
“…yet still there are many here that seemingly do not “learn” or “grasp” what he is saying!!!…”.
It is called “denial”. Don’t judge people for that, C*.
Debbie Wolf
He is telling us that we are weak and naive because it is true. Don’t focus on being insulted; focus on how NOT to be weak and naive. It isn’t harsh at all; it is very helpful when your enemy explains your weaknesses. Step back and look at it, then fix it so you get hurt again. This is Narc Boot Camp; and HG isn’t going to sing Kumbaya to us while we all sit around a campfire toasting marshmallows.
DO NOT get hurt again! Bad typo!
Fair observations.
Well I would prefer Kumbaya than him singing Depeche Mode……can he sing????
Good post by the way – I like the Narc Boot Camp idea…..
Don’t disrespect the Mode. Yes I can sing.
That might entice me on to your online you tube posts……so long as I can choose the song…….
Is that where we may have seen you on TV……X Factor??????
Ha ha not a chance.
Hello K ☺
I hear ya… I promise you I don’t feel insulted I know that I have had my weak moments myself and I certainly know that I have been naive at times. Idiotic.
But I believe it’s incorrect to apply a broad brush and say we are weak and naive full stop in this case… and I disagree that it happens to be true.
it is my opinion. I totally disagree. sometimes there is weakness sometimes there is naivety but not all of the time and not in all cases.
There are many very strong capable professional women and men in top fields of their professions who have been ensnared by a psychopath, narcissist or both and not through weakness.
it’s not much of an Accolade anyway is it to be ensnaring all these “lame ducks” shall we call them if it is to be believed. No challenge..no prize..however many re runs.
Believe me I’m not insulted. I can admit that at times I have felt weak and naive I say it quite often …and referring to the general point that it’s too broad brush to say empaths are weak and naive if they’re get ensnared again…. it’s not necessarily weak. but hey I don’t expect anybody to have to agree with me and I am not necessarily agreeing with others I’m simply stating my opinion not from a position of being insulted but just because I believe my opinion.
Some people believe in love to all kinds of degrees and they are very strong people and difficult to break … these people are not weak.
And it is precisely because they have such wonderful qualities desired by the narcissist that he/them/narcs go after them in the first place
. I hardly think he/they wish to chase down some injured flailing thing dragging its legs behind itself in a manner of speaking because it’s a battered broken weakling.
(Not meaning anything by saying ‘it’.. I promise you I’m just trying to make a point).
A weaking will fall at the first hurdle but a strong person will not… who may keep trying not because they are weak but because they are actually strong enough to try again..
Yes there will be those who feel weak and go back because they feel weak.. and of course there are some that are naive… but I’m saying it’s not all the time. .and not everyone. these are the facts as I see them in my world view and it isn’t about being insulted because I am not insulted I know I have been naive and I know I have been weak at times …however I personally have escaped as I always do.
I personally believe the biblical saying ‘when you are weak then you are strong’. weakness is not always a bad thing it’s serves to teach the contrast and we can become strong .we gain strength from our weaknesses.
Narc boot camp…lol…great name.👍😎
I’m glad nobody’s going to start singing Kumbaya though, I’d rather not have to kick them in the nuts…lol…
Just kidding 🤑🤑😈 haha.
🛡♛
Debbie Wolf
Excellent feedback! Thank you. And you are not defensive, either. Very nice quality to have. Our view of weakness and naivete is kinder and gentler than HG’s. When I think about the narcissist having to survive, a shark comes to mind, or a cheetah. They hunt to survive and they prey on the weak and the strong, but the weak are especially vulnerable. The weak are preyed upon because less energy is exerted, and when you need to survive, saving energy is paramount. I do not fault people who are targeted, especially if someone has never heard of NPD. I am weak and naive too, but I am learning here and, rest assured, I may be targeted again, but I ain’t letting a narc get me ever again (Hell no). And I agree with you, people do things for love that come from positions of strength and you are correct; we gain strength from our weaknesses. As for Kumbaya, I am not a fan either! “Kick them in the nuts” That was funny! Thanks for the laugh.
Haha K…
Thank you…and thanks for sharing your thoughts too…I hear you totally.☺
Re… ♫kumbaya… foot ready to launch resulting in a very satisfying “thud”… in the event we should hear the first notes! ♫ haha..
✌🐾
HG… are you enraged that the knowledge you so freely give here does not seem to sink in (to some) and people still do not understand? then they come crying when they get “hurt” again by one of your kind? I just do not get this mentality… even with your brutal truths you so generously share….
It does not enrage me, it adds to my knowledge and reaffirms my views.
Your view that we usually respond with emotion instead of logic?
In part.
what views, HG, are reaffirmed?
Naïve and weak.
thank you for verifying, HG ♛
You are welcome.
I agree with naive, HG. But I still never viewed myself as weak. I viewed it as showing perseverance and loyalty.
Naïve and weak???? Is that not the pot calling the kettle black…….without us he feels he will die…..without him we will just be a tad bored…..who needs who more?????? I think he is short on negative fuel tonight………Diva
Read what c star has written. Apply your logic not your emotional response
My aim is to try and apply both…..a lot more logic and less emotion…..I am aiming for a 70%/30% split. Although I am here to learn about your kind and subsequently my own kind, I don’t want to turn into someone that is 100% pure logic with no emotional response…..other wise, with no disrespect, I am going to end up like you and your kind. In a way (in my peculiar mind) my comment to you was a back handed compliment……when I first came on this site…….I felt naïve and weak………….after hours and hours of reading on this blog I no longer feel this way. I am definitely grasping what you are saying…..there is no doubt about that. I have to be realistic though…..I will always have an emotional response…….I was born this way. You asking me to think completely without emotion, is exactly the same as me asking you to think with it. It’s not going to happen. Diva
That is what I have always thought! We can get along great, if not a little bored, without them but they cannot live without us, and yet WE are the weak ones? Hmm
Hi RS I knew that you would agree with me…..kindred soul!!!! I am afraid to post any more tonight ……HGs getting cross…..I think I have said enough for one day…..well maybe not……if I have another glass of wine I might get a bit braver ……the real me may begin to surface and then the 70% logic will go right out the window!!!! Diva
I always get much braver when I have a drink too! 😄🍸( Of course I always regret it in the morning )😜
Hi RS…..you make me laugh……now that’s were we differ…….I don’t have regrets……if I do anything I shouldn’t……..I just say……God made me do it!!!!!! Diva…….maybe I should change my name to GODiva!!!!
Could be! I would be more prone to say “the devil made me do it!” Some of the things I say and do when I have had a second drink. . . come to think of it, I do many regrettable things when I have not had a drink. Hmm. I still use the devil as an excuse. 😉
Sizzle, sizzle. The temp is getting hot in the kitchen tonight!! Lol 🔥
Sure he likes it red hot!!!! I aim to please….Diva
Diva
Remember that HG sees himself as a predator and we are prey. It’s only natural that narcs who lie and trick us solely to get our fuel would consider us naive. And not understanding our emotions but seeing that they are a way to entrap and use us, they consider our emotions a weakness. So from his perspective we are naive and weak unless we educate, arm and protect ourselves. It’s never pleasant to hear hard truths. But sometimes we need to hear them.
It reminds me of my oldest son (who also is a narc). Every year at least once he re tells me the Lady and the Snake story. It’s like a standing joke between us because I like to keep snakes and spiders (in addition to narcs). He always begins with, “OK Mom, you need to hear this one again. It hasn’t sunk in yet.”
Hi Windstorm2 ……another new one for me….The Lady and the Snake story……quite apt really…….very good…..I really enjoy your posts……you make sense to me…..and not many do!!!!! You are completely right…..its so simple the way you put it….. when you state that HG is a predator and we are the prey and we will always be considered naïve and weak. Can you hear me screaming??????? Diva
HG-Illogical, naive, and weak? Ouch. You’re usually so polite that it’s easy to forget how deep that disdain really runs. 😀
It does make me curious though…Lennox knows all about what you are (actually, he probably has more specific information on the narc in his own life than anyone else alive) and chooses to remain in your life anyway. So do you think Lennox is naive and weak to do that, and if he had any sense at all he would go No Contact with you? Or do you think about that differently?
Hello June, indeed I am, the response was in keeping with the policy of honesty here and as C* expanded, it was stated with regard to certain circumstances and was not to be read as a wholesale response.
Lennox is less naïve than he once was, he is learning. He is weak because of his traits, he is strong because he continues to try to influence me knowing the risk he takes in doing so. He could go no contact (not that he would succeed) but as a NISS he is far less likely to see the golden period damaged for reasons which I have advanced in other articles as to why and how devaluation occurs. I do not scapegoat him.
I do not scapegoat him.
I am glad. You are a good brother to him.
The idiom: If the shoe fits, wear it. Is my motto, however, I can bristle on occasion. Naive and weak doesn’t bother me at all because it is true.
HG-
As always, thanks for answering. 🙂
It’s always so strange and nice to hear you talk about Lennox. It’s like…well, your heart doesn’t quite warm, but there’s a noticeable thaw.
And woah…he actually has the guts to try to influence you…in PERSON, completely identified and without the protective cloak of internet anonymity?! Lennox is one brave man. He has my respect just for that. (I would ask you to tell him that…but that would probably be weird since he’s never heard of me. He’d probably respond with “Umm…WTF is June?” :D)
Did you write more about him in any of your books? The more I hear about him the more fascinating he seems. And unless he goes under a different name, he doesn’t seem to post here! 🙁
He is written about in forthcoming books, yes.
…chuckling to myself as I read this…..
HG: “Do you want my number then?”
No amount of knowledge could keep us safe from you. You are the master at your game.
Hi RS …..I think we have enough knowledge to stay safe from him…..we would spot him a mile away…., swaggering around drinking Bloody Marys or peppermint tea, eating organic strawberry ice cream with an Alessi spoon, popping cod liver oil capsules, 3 toothbrushes in tow, more skin products than Joan Collins, just a quick check of the socks would be another clue and don’t forget the silk handkerchief……oh and why is he carrying a handful of nettles??? I could go on but I am going to quit now before I get axed from the site……if I don’t reply to you again you will know why!!!! Diva
Good one!! Even if we can spot him, that doesn’t shield us from his charm now, does it? (it wouldn’t me)
Hmmmm…….I will have to think about that one……it was all sounding so easy before you responded!!!!!
Hahaha!
Robin… if you APPLY the knowledge here, you will be safe, just sayin
Okay then!
During devaluation (Hell) I remember saying to my ex: “what part of fucking NO do you not understand? The N or the O?” He didn’t respond.
Was I manipulated into saying “yes”during our relationship? Probably, but I did say “No” often and didn’t feel bad about it. And he threw in my face several times: “You always say, No.” He whined, and I remember saying once: “What do you want from me? I am a busy woman. I can’t do everything.” (Tough shit)
K
Funny!
AH OH
Thanks! I got some more funny stories to tell. Humor lends a different perspective to my experience.
K
Please share your stories. I like good ones.
AH OH
Absolutely! And I am glad you like the humor in them.
So true! Ive commented before on this blog about my problem in the past with saying no. Ive improved quite a bit but for years it was to the point i was taken advantage of from many. Im starting to say no and people drop off like flies. You see who are your true friends/family when you change from an accomidator to someone with assertiveness…they dont like it. The ones who valued you stick around the ones that dont disappear. I think a big reason i was afraid to say no was fear of upsetting and losing that person.
As far as my narc ive still not said no to things i should be saying no to. It will come to my demise if i dont eventually but im scared of losing him. Its that pesky fear again keeping me from saying NO and trapped.
I did say no to something that wasnt easy which was my half brothers wedding this month. I struggled for months with it bc my narc brother who ive not talked to in 11 yrs will be there. I felt tremendous guilt over not going but for many reasons i knew itd be a bad decision. I ended up saying sorry we cant make it and left it at that. My dad knows the bad blood between us so he can explain. Itd be easy to smear him to my half brother but his wedding isnt about that and i dont want to dirty it or bring him into it. I still feel sad about not going but sent him a lovely card and a gift certificate to help buy things they need. Saying no to going was very difficult for me but i had to and i know i made the right decision.
“Don’t ask me to do anything because I’m not going to do it” was the statement laying the ground for our future together , two days after I moved into our city apartment with him.
-“I don’t want rent from you because then I will have to give you rights”
It has been a task for me to dismantle instilled childhood ‘values’ that saying “no” is a selfish act and relearning that saying ” no” sometimes and setting boundaries is very healthy and necessary. The issue is with the line where a healthy, self awareness “no” ends and a pathological individual’s use of the word “no” as a control device begins.
Pre abuse awareness I would try my best to accommodate the other person, like the good little girl I was taught to be. With the ex. the mission was the exact opposite, so maybe neither of us were healthy…
Mytrueself
You said something that’s made me stop and think. It was about being able to say “no” when asked to do something is an important part of setting healthy boundaries. I’d never considered that.
I’ll admit I only have a rudimentary grasp of boundaries. I know they’re important and that normal people have them, but the only kind I’ve ever been good at is physical distance. To me, setting boundaries is retreating to my home and locking the door. I guess my boundaries are enforced more by avoidance because I so hate any type of confrontation.
I’m always so hyper in tune with other people’s emotional reactions that any type of emotional confrontation is very, very hard for me. Even if I say no and they say ok, but I can feel their anger or disappointment it’s almost physically painful for me. Maybe this sensitivity to others emotions is a big part of my boundary problems? It’s given me something to think about. Thank you! 🙂
Going to try it on my ex-narc this week. Something tells me this is going to end really badly. To be fair to him, he hardly says no. He is a cowardly mid ranger who would go silent, slink off and disappear or do something else to provoke me rather than say no. Does it all the time. Then he watches as I explode full of emotions. HG, his tactic extracts more fuel from me than the greater who is extremely in control and oft says no to me. But of course it is the greater who has stolen my heart and soul with his charm and charisma, love bombing and mindfuckery, triangulation, amazing sex, whereas mid ranger never came close to any of that, he did get lots of fuel from me nonetheless.
My narc got off on turning my “no” into “yes” every chance he got.
I can agree and disagree to this article……I am sure I am going to regret this post……anyways…..I agree that I rarely say no to anyone……In fact I find myself offering to assist in some way before someone has actually even asked me for assistance. On the rare occasion that I had to say no to someone, they would without doubt get a detailed explanation of the refusal. I would feel bad about it, but if I really couldn’t do it I would explain why. However on the other side of the coin…..I can accept no from a stranger or an outsider without bother……I expect nothing from them. If however it was “my husband or partner” or someone close to me that is very different to me…..I would not expect to hear the word “no” if I asked for something and explained why I needed or wanted something, because I would not say no to them. If I hear the word no in this regard (without good reason)…….I would cajole, wheedle, coax, persuade, convince, flatter, humour, tempt, lure, allure, entice, seduce, flatter, beguile, inveigle, soft soap, barter and negotiate to turn that no into a yes……. I would not get angry or frustrated or upset in the process though…..I simply would just not give up………However if all of my attempts failed and fell on deaf ears……I would go for dinner on my own instead of with you, I would take a cab rather than borrow your car and I would invite my friends around to the house instead or maybe still go out another night……..but I would have tried every other option first……..I don’t know what that makes me……and I don’t want to know!!!!
Diva
I understand what you’re saying. I used to be the same way. It just seemed wrong that I always said yes to my family and friends, but then they’d say no to me – just no with no explanation or that they just didn’t want to do it.
Also I think that’s a natural result of growing up with narcs. After all, we’ve always seen narcs not take no for an answer and it work for them. I just learned it like I learned other things.
Thinking back, I’m not sure when I changed. Might have been a comment from someone about not liking it when I tried to pressure them into doing something. I didn’t like to think people thought I was pressuring them, so I just stopped. Now I usually just do whatever it is myself, or if I need something I’ll ask my family for their advice on what I should do. That way if they are willing, they can volunteer. Often they come up with a solution I’d not even thought about (often better than the one I came up with!). I may not get what I had wanted, but I always end up with something that works.
I think we’re all a lot happier now. I don’t have to wheedle or plead or get upset when they refuse – and they get the satisfaction of volunteering help without pressure and don’t feel forced into anything. This is also very effective if you’re dealing with narcs. Often they’ll say no just because it makes them feel powerful and in control. They want to see you beg and plead – that’s negative fuel. But if you bring a problem to them and ask for their advice, they often eat that up! Then they can feel powerful and smart for coming up with a working solution. 😊
Hi Windstorm2 many thanks for your detailed response. There is definitely a lot of sense to what you wrote, you seem to be much further on in your journey than me, as you have many things worked out. I will bear in mind your advice, experiences and reactions, as I trundle on through this path of enlightenment. Thanks again. Diva
It makes you sweet! 😉
You had to say that because I said we were kindred spirits!!!!!! Whatever I am you are!!!!!! Thank you Diva
😄I never feel obligated to give someone a compliment. I give them because the feeling is genuine.
Hi RS…….I knew you were genuine in your response……I rarely hand out a compliment…..but if I do I mean it too…….one of my 99 problems is that I find it hard to accept them……..I get embarrassed and never know what to say back……..it is like therapy in here!!! Diva
LOL! I am exactly the same way! When someone says “you’re pretty, or sexy” whatever, I just just “oh sure” and then “thank you”. I never believe them because I don’t believe it myself.
Hi RS I could have said exactly the same……..you are getting far better compliments than me though!!!!!! Hopefully one day it will be a non narc that is saying them, so we can actually start believing them. Diva
One can hope!
It will be sods law that after all of my new found knowledge and skills relating to narcs, that the next one will not be one!!! A part of me wants to test myself!!!
Do you want my number then?
I already have your number……
I know, me too! Sometimes I want to text the ex-narc to test out my new found knowledge. He can’t hurt me anymore so I think, why not? It would ease the boredom which is my life right now.
Hi RS……Please don’t do that!!!!!!….you have me regretting that I said that now…….I know that both of my prior narcs are capable of hurting me (if I let them.) I know my two could reel me back in if I was in their presence for long enough and I have to make sure that never ever happens. I could only test myself out on a new narc…..the others know me too well…..I would be starting off on the back foot. There has to be easier and safer ways of relieving boredom. I have a lot going on in my life (not all good) but it alleviates any boredom. I spend hours on this blog every day, then I am going to start reading the books……because of this blog my house looks like squatters have moved in!!!!! Diva
I wouldn’t really do it. I would probably cave in too. Whenever he walked in through my door, within five minutes he would have my clothes off (he used to brag about this to me). It’s been 10 months of no sex so I wouldn’t trust myself to be alone with him. I still don’t believe he could hurt me again, I just want to use his body for a little while. 😉
Hi RS after reading that post there is no doubt in my mind that you would cave in…….I wouldn’t even give it 5 minutes……5 seconds would be more like it!!!!!!! Diva
You are probably right. One kiss from him and I would be a goner. BEST kisser ever!! I hate him for that.
Diva and Robin
The way to test out and practice your narc spotting skills is to size up everyone you meet and see if you can spot the likely narcs. Everyone – even people you only see once like a cashier in a store you rarely go to. You won’t be able to really tell for sure, but you can often identify narcissistic traits and behavior. And people you see often you can probably identify. The ones you already know are narcs (or at least strongly suspect) you can practice identifying each narc-like thing they do.
When I do this I keep my behavior polite but as fuel-free as possible. In the past I’ve accidentally picked a few up like cockleburs, and it can be obnoxious getting them out of your hair. I wouldn’t try to play with any you’ve been entangled with. They’re way too likely to get ugly and cause you problems – even if it’s just smearing you to others.
Hi Windstorm2 another great post…..I had to look up cockleburs though….they are seemingly an American plant or weed, I don’t think we have them here……thanks for your advice on narc spotting…..I think RS and I need all the help we can get!!!!! Diva
Diva
Thanks! Oooh, they are horrible things. Seeds covered in long hooked barbs. They tangle up in hair or on clothing. Takes forever to work them out of a dog’s coat or a child’s hair and they hurt when they touch your skin.
I really enjoy talking to you, too. Hope you have a great week!
I remember those as a kid in Michigan. I never knew they had a name though, we just called them prickers. They certainly were horrible when they got caught in your hair! By the way, Diva is right. . . we both need much help! 😉
Robin
We all need much help! That’s the beauty of this blog. Not only do we get to learn about narcissism from HGs articles and answers, but we can help and learn from each other. You’d think after living all my life with narcs I’d not have any more problems identifying and avoiding them, but I do.
Thankfully I have my children and exhusband to talk things through with. A couple years ago I was going to fly to Munich to reconnect with an old aquaintance there. Of course I had shared what all he had said to me with my family and they had pegged him as a completely untrustworthy narc wanting to take advantage of me. I thought they were wrong.
My three sons decided that if I went, my ex-marine, middle son should go with me. Talk about setting off red flags!! When he called and asked me if I would please let him come along and size up my friend and reassure himself that there was no danger to me, that really made me stop and think! I mean, he was a 31 year old engineer who worked a lot of overtime. But still they all thought it was worth him burning two weeks of vacation to be there in Munich to protect me.
We didn’t go. My Moron in Munich got totally spooked at us coming and I realized my family had been right all along. I felt – and still feel – like a moron and an idiot, but I also feel blessed, cherished and protected by my family – even the narc ones.
What a sweet story! Isn’t family great?! I should have listened to my daughter because from the very first time of meeting him she said to me “he is so creepy! Why are you even giving him the time of day?!” From now on, I will listen to my gut and my daughter, she is wise beyond her years. My friends shared concerns about him also, that he was strange and he wasn’t that cute and why was I attracted to him. Live and learn.
Ahh, love this. 😊 You’re all really sweet. Another reason I like this blog.
Hi robin…im the same way i give compliments when i feel i want to and never to kiss up or gain points. That said, where i work i have given compliments to keep the peace in a sense bc i knew i was dealing with a narcissist. It wasnt meant to be a lie but rather to create good morale in the workplace.
The former owner of where I work was tall, deep voice, silver hair, well read, handsome. He was a narc. When he was around, everyone was stiff and uncomfortable. When he said jump, you said, how high! He always flirted with me (while his wife was in her office) but he did made me cry once. He made a lot of people cry. He had a way of making people feel stupid. It’s been pretty stress free since he has been gone the past few weeks. 😉
Diva
Your post made me laugh. The last two lines were awesome!
Hi K thank you…..it was partly funny but it was also true….that is exactly what I would have done…and in fact I have been involved in 2 out of those 3 scenarios before. You have to be prepared for the consequences of your actions though……that’s the bit I left out!!!! Diva
Hey! I said no to my father a couple weeks ago! It was a beautiful 10 minutes…then after some persuasion, I said yes. 🙁
Tonight, my brother convinced my mother to let him have a bunch of his friends over without any parental supervision whatsoever (he’s only 14). Afterwards, when questioned about this questionable decision, she said she “didn’t like it” and “agreed” with their concerns…but still inexplicably agreed to let my brother do it.
Sigh. A good sign you’ve been manipulated is when you can’t defend the reasoning of “your own” decision.
No.
Lol.
::Poke poke::
I’m just playing 😜
What’s up Doc? I am not sure I answered you on what I do for a profession. I am retired. Casino industry and real-estate was my path to financial comfort.
Ah oh,
Hey you! Sounds like you had some fun careers. Casino life… look at you livin in the fast lane… lol!
Well, I can safely say I had experiences that are not the norm.
I am very fortunate in my choices in life. I have had stumbles but it is what makes us who we are.
“Look at you livin in the fast lane”? Hmmm No, I never looked at it this way. It was my life. LOL Now if I go out twice a week past dinner time, I get nervous. I need my sleep.
My most favorite moment was when Mohamad Ali kissed my cheek. I was a 117lb little 23 year old and he was larger than life. Out of all the mega stars and people who were of importance, it was Ali that moved me.
(I say my weight so you can have perspective of how big he looked to me)
no is a regular part of my vocabulary and so must have been challenge fuel to all 3 N’s…. is this correct?
This is still hard for me and something I need to practice. I always feel I need to give an explanation and my daughter just tells me to say “no” and nothing else. I don’t like the feeling of being rude or mean. That bothers me but something that she doesn’t thing anything of.
HG, I wish you were in my ear whispering “no” to me all day long.
Hi snow white…im the same way i feel i need to explain why im saying no. I took a course shortly after my kids were born on assertiveness to help in my private life and my work. It helped a lot and one thing taught was that you can say no and not have to go into a lengthy reason why. I still will give a brief reason but i let it go afterwards.
I need that course Narc Affair.
I want to be able to say it and not another word after that. Lol
Good for you that your are able to do that now.
Maybe I will add that to my goal list. I might be in therapy for a long time. Lol
I did not, however, say no to the narc. I wish I had.
I say no all the time, just ask my ex-boss. 😉 She would ask me to do something and I would say “no”. She would say “thank you” and hand me the work she asked me to do. She gave me the option to say no. I also say no to people who ask favors of me if I don’t want to. I never feel bad for saying it. I hate doing something I don’t want to do. I think that’s why I don’t like occasions where I am expected to give a gift. I love to give them when they are not expected.
Robin…i need to be more like this. Youre my NO idol lol
Not so fast… I had a terrible time saying no to the narc. Any time he asked me to do anything, the answer was always yes. I agreed to let him film us in the bedroom and that is something I never would have agreed with anyone else!
Agreed RS! I have no trouble saying no to a request if it is not feasible, I’m uncomfortable or it is not in me or my family’s best interest. I don’t ever get a feeling of superiority though. For me, it gives me the freedom to establish boundaries.
What always got me wound up was JN using the word “maybe”. From “are you going to show up this time?” “Maybe if you are nice to me.”
“Are you contacting me again because you have feelings for me?” “Maybe”. His favorite go to word.
Most wishy washy maneuver and guess what? Maybe always leads to NO.
I remember whenever I would ask him if he was going to stay this time and not run off he would say, “maybe, if you don’t do this, or you don’t do that”. When he left, as he always did, it was going to be MY fault. Like a fool, I believed him. So glad to be rid of that!
Aaarrrggghhh! Yes, add that to my list of top ten Maybe comments. I got lots of blame filled remarks too causing his silent treatments.
Again, I let a lot slide the first year because of the age gap and him being younger. I told him once, “I got JN the boy. I wonder if JN the man will turn out to be any better.” We now know it will only get worse. Lol
What was the age difference between you? How many years?
I was 41 when we met and he was a senior at the University in the town I live in. He was my best friend (who I work with) – her son’s best friend. They were fraternity brothers. Big enough age gap. My girlfriends were calling me Demi and J-Lo. Smh. Bad, bad Clarece not shutting it down quicker.
Well, if you CAN, why not?! 😉
This reminds me of a phone call I got one evening from my exhusband. He’s always been one to call someone or answer the phone and still keep talking to someone else in the room for a few seconds and make the person on the line have to wait. Obviously this is for negative fuel from annoyance, but he’d apparently gotten to the point where he did it without thinking. When I answered the phone, I could hear him bragging to the other attorneys in his office, “Watch me get myself invited to a home cooked meal!” Lol! Didn’t work that time like he expected!! I didn’t have any trouble saying, “No.” I told him that people who make such sloppy mistakes have to feed themselves! 😝
But you’re totally right about saying no, HG. Narcs have zero problem, while I’d almost always rather hit myself with a stick than tell someone “no.”
I did say NO to my Narc..seconds before my final escape..after a SuperNova, right before he started to totally devastate me as I was going out the Door…