A Madman’s Diary
I recently picked up a book that I had not read for many years. It is called A Madman’s Diary by Lu Xun. I have a translated copy. It is an interesting book and one which is rather relevant but that is not the purpose of mentioning it. It was, as I was leafing through to find a particular section, the place where a piece of neatly folded paper slipped from the pages of the book and nestled on the floor. Interested by this runaway piece of paper I set the book down and stooped to pick up the piece that lay beneath me. The paper was cream and of a decent weight and I smiled as I recognised where it had come from. It was the only thing that she had in common with my mother but she also knew the value of writing on a quality piece of paper. I unfolded it and there was my confirmation of the author as her neat, copperplate writing spread out before me. She always wrote with a fountain pen, a Mont Blanc and she kept a pot of ink at my house as she preferred to draw the ink from the pot into the pen rather than use the cartridges. I used to enjoy watching her as she carefully applied the nib to the dark liquid and then applied the mechanism to draw it up before cleaning off the oozing nib with a piece of blotting paper which soon became stained in a way not unlike the cover of the book which I had just put to one side. She used to hold up the blotting paper and invite me to comment on what I saw. I played along, since Rorschach was familiar to me. I always invented something spectacular though so she would comment and do so with her eyes with impressed admiration.
“I see a lion eating out a bison from behind,” I would say slowly and she would twist the blotting paper and peer at it to see if she accorded with my view.
“I see a crow stuck in the branches of a tree.”
“I see a dented crown.”
“I see a conflagration about a baby.”
“I see dumb people.”
Each time she filled her elegant writing instrument we would have this little game of me looking at the blotting paper, with its splodges, dots and streaks and without very little hesitation declare some imaginary image which left her both intrigued and confused. It must have been some time since I had last recalled us doing this together as her memory would rarely ever invade my consciousness and it would take something like this to restore that which had once been. I shoved it back into the depths of my memory where it was best kept.
Thus I turned to the letter and read its contents. It was her last letter to me. I think that is why I placed it in this book since I had been reading it at the time and I decided to use her letter as a bookmark rather than place it with all the others that I have received. This is what she wrote:-
“My dearest HG,
This is not some lengthy treatise. We have spoken for as long and as often as we could already and there is no need for repetition. I know I have offended you most gravely and that is something I have never intended nor wished upon your gracious self. You have taught me many things and you set me higher than anyone else and for that you will always have my thanks and eternal gratitude. You truly are a prince amongst men and you always showed the grace of princes whenever you dealt with me. I think, more than anything else that it was your nobility, both in standing and purpose that drew me to you the closest. Even when you became both base and abominable you still exacted that majesty for which I have always loved you and I can only look to my own failings as to why you did as you did. I have issued a thousand sorrows for that which I did not do and that which I did not say. I offered you everything that I had but it was not enough and I remain ashamed of my failure, it is not something I often encounter. I think of you often and that will never change, I am sure of that. I remain willing to help you overcome those obstacles. I still regard them as surmountable and I am saddened that time was against us in terms of addressing them, but I remain hopeful that somehow we shall do so, in whatever form we decide and I will be by your side come what may. I will take this time you have designated as a sabbatical from you and I as one for reflection and improvement, you know how I am. Thank you for once again for our time in the sun, I know you have described it as no more than a howling wilderness and I would be lying if I said that such a description does not upset me. For me, it remains a place of safety and sanctuary and I firmly believe we can achieve it once again, should you decide to give me a further chance. I shall respect your request and not contact you again but I remain always open and amenable to you reaching out to me and indeed I would welcome it. All I ask now is for your forgiveness in the full knowledge that I deserve none.
Eternal love
C.”
As I read the letter once again a show reel of images filtered through my mind. Memories re-surfaced some of them not having been resurrected before. I felt those shared memories and those shared occasions stir something once again. In accordance with the recent instruction I have received I allowed this to wash over me, rather than reject it and lock it away again. The sensation flowed over me and it was familiar to me. I recognised all those traits that had caused me to seek her out all that time ago. I recognised the feeling of the fuel that flowed from her. That was what I felt. This piece of correspondence, elegantly written and delicately composed encapsulated the powerful allure that we possess. I need not detail what I put her through once the golden period ended. You have your own experiences of that to draw on which will allow you to comprehend the brutality that such denigration exacted on someone who could write in such terms. Notwithstanding the cruelty and malice, her charity remained undiminished and stood as testament to the very things that I saw when our paths first crossed. This letter indeed reinforced what I knew. I was right. I folded it up and returned it to its rightful and appropriate place in the folds of the book once again, sealing it inside, placing her back in her tomb.
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When I first read this article, I did not attach the same connotation of the relationship that many others did below, I have read it again and I still do not. It confuses me……..
The fact that this correspondence fell out of this book and was never placed “with all the others that I have received” in my opinion is no coincidence……and not just because you happened to be reading it at the time.
My initial thought when I commenced reading the first paragraph was that the relationship was either student/tutor or therapist related, rather than any romantic liaison. Maybe that sprung to mind because of the mention of the “Rorschach” game, a version of which I often play with my children albeit with cloud formation, or maybe it was the mention of looking for admiration……..but it was far more than that……..
Even when I move onto the correspondence itself, my feelings are not dispelled……I can’t explain it……but the correspondence is almost too professional or business like in its content and structure…….although there is no doubt some love, feeling and emotion within. There are just too many words and phrases within this correspondence that do not conjure up an image of a true romantic liaison.
To me……this is a person that has studied you and had some idea as to what you were and was trying to help you. She seems more disappointed with that she was unable to do so, rather than anything else. Maybe this is the girlfriend that first highlighted to you your flaws …….maybe she even bought you that book.
Her words “I have issued a thousand sorrows for that which I did not do and that which I did not say”………are explaining that she never told anyone what she believed you to be and that any threat you may have perceived her to be, she did not act on.
She remains committed to the cause…….she had some idea of what you were…..most people would be running in the opposite direction…..I believe this lady was studying a relevant topic or had some foresight into your traits and believed that she could truly help you with what she thought you to be ….. “I remain willing to help you overcome those obstacles. I still regard them as surmountable and I am saddened that time was against us in terms of addressing them, but I remain hopeful that somehow we shall do so, in whatever form we decide and I will be by your side come what may.”
Although she probably had no real idea of the extent to what she was dealing with………Diva
When i read this it screamed narcissist’s perception of what the letter actually said but if it was word for word then she really is in need of help. To say all of that after being devalued and discarded means she has no clue she was abused and that she was with a narcissist. She sounds codependant and a doormat. I feel sorry for this character bc she really is in the dark still trying to make sense of it all and get closure which will never happen. Closure doesnt allow for the narc to return and hoover so she is right where shes wanted….struggling to come to grips with what happened waiting hopefully for a return and resurrection of the relationship.
Screw closure.
They give me closure by not giving me closure.
At that point I have all the answers I need.
I make my own closure.
correspondence!
speaking of LD correspendence, monsterboy put me in his black book (‘bad, rebellious’) – but now he’s sending me pics of his newly decorated nest.
HG, do you keep pictures of all your past IPPS’s, only some of them, or none at all? My Narc has deleted all pictures of various supplies he has had each time he discarded me (and they are not hidden on his laptop either), but still has pretty much every picture he ever took of me since we first started seeing each other.
I do. They go into the Asylum of the Grotesque.
HG I think the asylum of the grotesque is an uncomfortable place for you , is that true ?
From time to time.
HG I’m going to take that as a Yes because you would have said No.
I think this letter is more than a book mark , not to say this particular letter or person is special or more distinctive than the others , however as this only amounts to a little Thought fuel at best . Also with an abundance of fuel surrounding this individual ( not all narcs have that option) I would have thought that letter would be in the bin . Hardly needed for a book mark in a book so favoured that you took the time to purchase the book and have it translated . Now the letter is in this blog why not burn the letter , a little fire would be nice .
I think any non pathological person would want to do all they can to save their relationship with the person they love.
Writing a carefully though out, heart-felt letter shows a vulnerability and at the same time takes great courage and strength of character.
One would hope the recipient would be capable of recognising this and respond with equal respect and care, no matter what the ultimate outcome is.
This post feels poignant for me as I have written many drafts of a, as yet unsent, letter to my ex but now I realise the letter would only serve as a catharsis for me, it would never receive the reciprocal care form his end- it would be merely used as a book mark.
Hello MTS! I agree completely. My view is it is brave and fearless to to go balls in to fight and try to preserve your relationship. Not weak at all. The weak cower away not liking confrontation. Like you said though, this is for when you are dealing with a non-pathological person.
I always had that same hope that if you treat others how you want to be treated and follow the golden rule, you will get a respectful response, no matter the outcome. It is still a struggle for me to find a different way to cope and pull back when you realize you aren’t dealing with someone who will reciprocate and respect what you are trying to do. I learned that what I have always done is called complimentary projection. I expect I’ll be treated back with the same values as I treat others as just a natural course of being a decent person. That has been a real work in process for me to not grant that trust to everyone I let in my social circle. It has to be earned.
JN used to repeatedly tell me he either “tossed” or didn’t read my longer letters or emails. It was a lie though. Somehow info that he could only know had he read them, he would always use later on. Whether it be an action he knew I liked, he’d use that as his next hoover approach. Or he had new info to use against me in a fight. He ate that sh*t up. It goes in their memory bank even if the physical paper serves as a bookmark.
HG, would you ever respond to ‘love letters’ in order to receive fuel? Would you do the back n forth thing if distance was between you and your IPPS? Thanks…
Absolutely Lisa, would you like my address for some correspondence?
Thats very funny HG. It wasnt what I was getting at, but since you offered HELL YEAH!!!!!! LOL
You do realize that if any of us ever got entangled with HG we would wind up in a loony bin!!! Maybe I’m speaking for myself?
HG, I confess to thinking C was no longer of this earthy realm judging by the symbolic last paragraph, “placing her back in her tomb.” I’m pleased to read that I am wrong in the matter of C’s existence.
only those without power need it so badly. etc…
sexist gendered socialisation aside, i totally disagree that she was seeking to help you *only*. this is the letter of a traumatised woman who is responding to abuse by ‘making it OK’ in her head. if she shows you compassion and accepts blame (trauma-bonding, response to your inflexibility and the absurdness of the situation), then she can still hope to appeal to your ‘good-side’ and get some answers to her state (she’s doing this out of a self preservation instinct that is at work under the surface of symbolic power). unfortunately as i said, she’s far too literal and socialised into ‘goodness’ to really defend herself, she’s a naive. but this is her asserting herself, believing in her self and her vision of the world, not giving it up for you – even if she gets punished for it.
it’s complicated, but that’s intersubjectivity! i think you go for low hanging fruits, you’re a simple bully. that doesn’t mean you’re not dangerous.
You have not read extensively if you form the view that I go for low hanging fruits, or perhaps your arrogance is such that you have read but you regard those of high calibre as being low-hanging fruits. Still, your misandry and feminist agenda does tend to obscure your vision.
Hi ;peace out
I find your interpretation of this article interesting and unique.
The message I received from this article, is a very educated woman who, for all intents and purposes, is still very much in love with someone she has tried, but is unable to help. She knows who and what he is and is left with no choice but to give up (as this is what he has asked her to do). She is still willing to be there for him:
“I remain willing to help you overcome those obstacles. I still regard them as surmountable and I am saddened that time was against us in terms of addressing them..”
When you have been ensnared in this kind of relationship you believe that you can help, that you can love them through anything and are willing to do whatever it takes.
I know this from experience.
Jody,
That was very well stated.
I agree.
Peace,
That is certainly a different perspective – I definitely didn’t perceive it that way. It is always interesting to hear different perceptives.
My perception of this article is similar to Jody’s.
I find the whole article quite sad – sad for both people.
What people often fail to understand is that you can only try so much when helping another person through whatever struggles they are going through.
I can’t save anyone. I learned this a long time ago. I also learned that I can assist people in saving themselves. I don’t even like to use the word saving anymore. I can be a catylist for positive change and growth so the other person can reach his/her own potential and lead a more fulfilling life…but the other person must want it.
I don’t believe that HG goes for low hanging fruit at all…
Personally, when I come to the point where I see the person has no desire to help themselves and is abusive to me and to themselves that is the point when I exit the relationship. This is because I won’t let that person take me down with them.
It’s important to know when to clock out and walk away when someone insists on self-destructing especially to the point they are destroying you as well.
When you take a step back and look at the behavior for what it is …it is very self-destructive.
Dr. Q
You are awesome and your comments are right on point 😉
Thanks Jody 😁🤓😀
Jody,
A great way for me to portray what happened….
https://youtu.be/bHVQXMCux78
To be fair, I also believe it is easy to take myself out of myself because HG is different in many ways from my ex narc. The point I just made in my previous sentences coupled with the fact that HG hasn’t wronged or offended me (intentionally or accidentally) maybe makes it easier for me to not get as emotional as others when he explains his perspective.
I’m prone to agree with ;peace out’s opinion.
That letter is an excellent example, how the Empath tryes to get closure to heal herself.
That letter is an excellent example, how the Empath wants to operate in the “white and black” perspective and get answers. Did you forgive me – yes or no? Are we finished – yes or no? Do you see us together in the future – yes or no? Tell me, yes or no? Black or white?
And that post is an excellent example, how the Narc operates in the “grey” perspective. You’ll never get the “hot” yes from him. You’ll never get “cold” no from him. You’ll get only the “warm” maybe…grey…
Yes, the Narcs see the world in “black and white” perspective, but don’t think that they don’t know what the “grey” perspective is.
If you take the sheet of paper and paint its one half with white color and another half with black color, what would you see? The white and black halves and…very thin, almost invisible transitive GREY zone, where two cardinal colors are blended.
Put yourselves in that grey zone and look on the left – you see the wtite color; then look on the right – you see the black color… That’s how the Narcs see our world, LIVING in that thin and invisible grey zone. The Narcs are masters of grey, because they ARE GREY. This is their biggest secret.
And Tudor told you his “grey” secret, when he read and then “…folded it (letter*) up and returned it to its rightful and appropriate place in the folds of the book once again, sealing it inside, placing her back in her tomb…”. He took that lady to his own territory – grey zone – “maybe”. No wonder why, it is his kingdom and he is a powerful King there.
Unfortunately to that lady, it means no closure and no healing. But if she puts herself in his shoes (puts herself in his grey zone), she’ll get a chance to see the two cardinal colors pretty distinctly. She’ll get a chance to choose between them. She’ll get a chance to find her final answer – yes or no. To stay with him or to be free from him. Forever.
Hi Noname
Black and White is idealistic because it is straightforward and simple. In my experience nothing has ever been that cut and dry. It is the fear of anger, rejection and abandonment that causes you to wander around in Gray Scale Land questioning yourself, your decisions and the motives of other persons.
When you hold on to Hope or Faith, when you say “what if'”, “if only”, and “should I” you are in the realm of Gray Scale. Close your eyes and think about any of those things mentioned above and your mind will come up with a hundred different scenarios-(all the more to confuse yourself with) and all of those go hand in hand with the word “Closure”.
The word “Closure” is the Goaler in a Gray Scale Prison. If this is what we seek then we are not using our brain to make Black and White decisions instead we are relying on our heart, being ruled by our emotions and we are setting ourselves up for a very long prison sentence by chasing something that truly is elusive and exists only in our own minds.
I ask this: Why is “Closure” so important and why is it dependent on the other person? Why do we question our own thoughts and wait for validation or a reason to change our minds; after all isn’t “Closure” really all of these things? Isn’t “Closure” just a way to leave the door slightly ajar in invitation?
The Lovely Lady who had written the letter had two choices: Leave the door open for a future encounter with H.G. (Gray Scale) or,even though it would hurt her tremendously, to realize the futility of the situation and firmly close it (Black & White).
I’ve only met a handful of people in my life that would firmly shut the door because the reality of the world is not so simple as that..we are ruled by emotions, and the need for acceptance/validation.
I tend to think the opposite is true: Fold your painted black and white paper in half and smoosh it, when you open it back up you will find that gray is the dominant color, that is the majority of people because life is emotional and messy and full of endless possibilities. The parts that still remain Black & White are the narcissists who exist on the very edges of the Gray Scale Realm- they are cut and dry because they do not have the capacity to honestly support real emotions or understand those that do.
~Jody
👏
Hello, Jody,
I like your opinion. Very valid.
“…In my experience nothing has ever been that cut and dry…”.
You are right, because the “Black and White” is a straight LOGIC. Oher colors (including grey color) are the different EMOTIONS.
The harmony is an ability to combine the logic and emotions in 50/50 proportion. When you face the problem, you have to decide in which way to resolve it – using logic or emotions or both? If you resolve all problems with logic only, you’ll fail. If you resolve all problems with emotions only, you’ll fail also… We need a balance to win, combining logic and emotions in a friendly way.
“…I ask this: Why is “Closure” so important and why is it dependent on the other person?”…
The uncertainty is a grey area. The unstable self-esteem (if praised, it is good; if critisized, it is bad) is a grey area. The depression is a grey area. The boredom is a grey area. The emptiness is a grey area. It isn’t an easy task to live there and I feel bad for Narcs, because it is a real horror.
The unanswered questions and the unfinished deals put you in that grey area directly, and the numerous “what ifs” start to poison your life… The Closure is a way out from the “Grey” area and we use the “Black and White” logic to do that. And no, the Closure isn’t dependent on the other person. We can do it, using our own internal sources.
“…Isn’t “Closure” just a way to leave the door slightly ajar in invitation?…”.
For what? For misery?
The Narcs NEVER give the second chances, so if the relationship doesn’t work, it has to be “closed” (indifference).
“…Fold your painted black and white paper in half and smoosh it, when you open it back up you will find that gray is the dominant color, that is the majority of people because life is emotional and messy and full of endless possibilities…”.
You said very important thing, using that analogy, Jody, but it isn’t related to “majority of people”, but to Narcs! That exactly what happens, when they lack of “fuel” or get older. They gradually lose their ability to operate with the “White and Black” logic and become consumed by Grey emotions and feelings…
That’s why the Narcs desperately need the emotional people. They want to add the people’s emotions to change their Grey color. Also, experiencing the Fury, Hatred, Jealousy, and other emotions, they try to change their Grey color by themselves. But when those emotions subside, they back to Grey color again. Vicious cycle…
When the “majority of people” (with full spectrum of emotions) experience the “messy” life, it isn’t a Grey color. It is a Purple color. It isn’t pleasant color at all, but it is “full of possibilities”, exactly as you said.
Thank you for interesting discussion, Jody.
Poor hen. She’s endured hell and she still respects you enough to look up to you high on that pedestal in which you placed yourself. Of course, from her pov she was probably trying to keep the gate open for a reconciliation to help you with your issues… Well she can’t now, can she?
What a lovely and unexpected article, H.G.
I wonder how many letters are in your possession…each one written by a different hand, in different ink, on different paper -reaching out with the same naked emotions to say the same words as the ones before her?…She spoke of repitition, I think she doesn’t realize how close to the mark she was.
“…I can only look to my own failings as to why you did as you did. I have issued a thousand sorrows for that which I did not do and that which I did not say. I offered you everything that I had but it was not enough and I remain ashamed of my failure…”
“…All I ask now is for your forgiveness in the full knowledge that I deserve none.”
This letter is touching and heart-breaking. I feel for her.
Ahhh reading this makes feel like such a dumb ass for the pages I wrote to him. Oh the fuel he must have received from those letters ranging from professing my undying love, to pure hatred, to berating myself and taking full blame. I still have some of those letters and pull them out occasionally to remind how strong and happy I am now and how far I have come.
HG are you able to explain why she believes that she “offended you most gravely?” Diva
She believed she was helping me but she was seeking to expose my behaviours and thus gave most grave offence.
Your answer now partially explains my initial thoughts when I read that article…..when I got down to every ones comments I could not understand how I had completely misread the relationship between the two of you. I then didn’t want to post my initial gut reaction but I will do so later today….. (at the risk of sounding foolish)…..since you responded to my question. Diva
HG My questions are not related to this article as such……..Would you please advise how many books you have written in total to date? Is everyone of them on Amazon? It makes sense to me to read them in the order that you wrote them……probably makes no sense to anyone else…. it’s just a quirk…..but can you give me the first 3 books that you wrote, in order of writing please. Many thanks Diva
43. Yes they are all on Amazon. The first three in order of publication (in terms of writing it is a different order) Narcissist : Seduction, Narcissist: Ensnared and Evil. To follow the order just look for the date alongside each book. There are a further 60 books in progress.
Many thanks for that information…..I have a starting point now….Diva
Pleasure
Expose it to whom?
Family, friends and associates.
You entombed her, but is she in the tomb? There’s a cold, yet painful reminiscence here. If she’s gone and dead for you, why not burn the note and derive an amazing amount of fuel?
Dear Mr Tudor,
I was totally enraptured with this beautiful piece. It reminded me of
“Beauty and the Beast”. Her empathy for you is so overwhelming that it makes one forget you are the Narcissistic and not the beast who returns her love and has a happy ending.
Thank you for sharing
HG
Of all your articles this one affects me the most, I can only imagine what you put her through.
Do you believe she understood?
No
And that, right there, is the cruelest thing. You don’t let us understand. I am glad you let us know these things or else I would have gone mad.
Thank you HG
Essentially my many emails to narc, just not so beautifully written. I could’ve easily accused her plagiarism. I know how she felt when writing that. What the hell is wrong with narcs?!
I agree!
Then puts the letter in Madman’s Diary 😥
The fantasy is much brighter and shinier that the reality- for both involved!
I, too, resided in the fictitious construct.
I hope the “author” is putting her pen to paper and writing down all of the attributes that make her an amazing person, stops blaming herself for the abuse she sufffered, restores her self worth and rises up like a Phoenix from the ashes to ride off on a unicorn into the sunset….with a man who genuinely loves her.
Both your and her letters so beautifully written! I wish I had the words to write as the two of you do. It was a very sad letter one which even after what you had done to her showed the respect and love she had for you. I am sorry more then I am angry. Sorry that you have never felt that kind of love and respect for someone else, simply because you were never shown such as a child. My heart goes out to the both of you as only an empaths could! For in my heart both of you were hurt. Thank you HG! Xxx
HG
What made her different from the rest?
I would suggest you make a visual time-line of your victims across your wall, going down a hallway perhaps, so every day as you walk past, you can be reminded of how you are destroying people’s lives, yet your kind probably masturbates to such knowledge… and/or you may stronger than most and have reached the ability to control your own damage. But this is the first time I’ve been angry at you, and her letter moved me to tears, as i suspect, whether it’s fictional or not, that it accurately sums up the damage you have done to hearts. 😡 i wanna fight ya. Lol! 😉 thank you for sharing, and thank you for no longer hurting “c.”, my initial as well. Your comment the other day that you are proud of your followers who go n.c. helped me do so finally, as well. I guess you’re like a surrogate master for some of us till we can heal. Lol!!
It is a real letter. Your emotional response is based on reality.
It does read like one of yours! Regardless, it’s triggered such intense pain yet again – I had poured all my emotions into those long emails.
H.G who’s reality? Hers are the perception of the narc she’s apparently directing her anger towards? Some of these posts really hit home for most. Do you do it so we don’t take this disorder lightly or use as a muse?
Back to football 😊 both teams suck. Lol
I convey the brutal truth so you break free from your emotional thinking.
Ty. I assumed it was true. I didn’t mean to imply you would fib, only that i wasn’t sure if it was a conglomerate of all the people you’ve hurt (as always, no offense intended). I wish both of you the best, and i hope you can heal to the point, or learn what can be done to control the sadism, that you can have a genuine love like you both deserve. To see that she’s in charge of an aid agency just proves that you would do well together as you’re both working to restore souls. Bless you guys.
To yolo, no, I’m angry at mr. Tudor for hurting this kind lady. I was an English major and cried for two weeks straight when i read a tale of two cities, i think it was. I’m not offended that you think I’m projecting any of the narcissists i know onto him, but am just letting you know that i was actually hurt and angry at him. Usually i can detach from what he does to people when he relates his stories because i can separate what he does from who he is as a man, and i also believe there is a spiritual function for the sociopath among us, but this upset me. Unrequited love is really unfair, and to know that if he would just stop being difficult, they could be happy, is frustrating. Lol but maybe he loves her so much he’s protecting her from himself. So maybe that’s the biggest and best way he can show true love to any woman after all. 💖 And i don’t know how to reply to replies, so i don’t know where this will end up.
To bliss, it did remind me of his restrained and dignified writing style, but i would assume that (a) he wouldn’t be attracted to anyone with any less class than he has in the first place lol, and (b) he had probably trained her over time how to engage with him in the best possible way to have a chance to get him back. If she is only just that sincerely nice, and he still let her go, then… idk. I guess i could think he’s crazy for letting a woman like that go, but i know also that a man like him with great self control can protect her also from even himself by not being selfish enough to torture her. He suggests in the article that maybe it was selfishness that led him to do so, but i suspect that as usual, that’s his inner demon lying to him about his true nature. He more than likely saw how good of a person she was and so his guilt at hurting her surpassed his pleasure at torture. Without understanding the sadist’s mind, it’s hard to comprehend how hard they struggle with their own nature, and how little support they have for it. I don’t envy them. 🙂
She is a lady…
Did you try to hoover her back after this letter, dear HG?
Does it existe also some letter of your victim who escaped you?
Could you be so kind and post it?
Please…
She has been hoovered yes. Further disclosures re correspondence will follow in due course.
Hope she told you where to stick it! 😡 But in an eloquent manner of course. (Sorry, I must be going through the anger phase as I constantly seem to be annoyed with HG and narcs😬)
Cant wait
Hello HG, I’ve never read this one before , I found it upsetting . I did what I always do which is go back to when it has been posted previously , sometimes it’s a few times and read all the comments . This way I learn a bit more from the readers and your replies.
One comment was that a reader did not believe that C had written this but you had written it ? You did not respond to this one way or another ?
When I go back and read posts and comments I see the change I in you HG it’s so apparent , surely I am not the only one that sees this ?
You have become less formal less stiff less robotic and slightly warmer , I do not think this is fake as you would have no real reason to fake it , so I think it has happened naturally ?
I presume you hoover this lady occasionally to make sure she still holds a torch for you ?
I do Lisa and she does.
Of course you do!! Oh HG!!🤦🏼♀️Xxx
Well HG stop doing it and next time you just happen to turn up at her work place give her the link to this site and the Amazon collection .
I hope you don’t take offence to this question HG, but are you positive she still holds a torch for you? Or could that possibly be your own perception/ desire? I only ask this because my ex says the same to people about me holding a torch /still in love with him. I think he truly believes this.The reality is, he disgusts me and I want nothing to do with him.
She does. Your point is valid, but I know that she does owing to the interaction we have had.
So here’s my conundrum. Do you hoover and check on C because of the sentiments written in this letter? Had she not written it, would you have hoovered as much? Letters like this are your lifeblood basically. It does connect you to this individual, you just don’t know how to bond.
The discovery of the letter is of course a Hoover Trigger. The content of the letter is a reminder of the susceptibility of C and also the fuel she provided which of course lower the Hoover Bar on the Hoover Execution Criteria. Its presence increases the potential for hoovering, not significantly but does increase it. Of course I do not look at the letter every day, so there would be different Hoover Triggers, unconnected to this letter, so in that respect it has no effect. The letter naturally connects her to me.
Ha ha. I see a lion eating out a bison from behind. How ironic for her. C’s letter is beautifully written with such warmth and care, blaming herself for failing you, extending an olive branch for possible future reconciliation even after you’ve told her to make no more contact. She must have loved you very much to express herself in a way that almost takes away her dignity. C’s sunny days were merely a Tiki torch, she just didn’t know it. The thought of her writing with a fountain pen brings back my own wonderful childhood memories of my calligraphy classes and my own fountain pen with a gold nib which I still use sometimes.
What is C doing these now?
Do you mean what is she doing these days?
Yes, that is what I meant. Phone change my spelling somehow.
What is C doing these days?
Commanding a high up position in an aid agency.
Yes. I’m curious, too.
Does this high position she is in make her more appealing to you once again?
Yes, it is an appealing character trait and residual benefit.
Excellent writing, but HG, you truly were a piece of shit. All of you Narcs. Damn devils you are, making us feel unworthy of you like we did everything wrong when you guys were the problem.
“…I know I have offended you gravely….your most gracious self….you truly are a prince amongst men….” Yeah, right, pffft!
” …time you designated as a sabbatical from you and I as one for reflection and improvement…” – Improve what?!!!! GTFOH!
The only thing she said that was true in all of our cases is “….I have issued a thousand sorrows for that which I DID NOT DO and that which I DID NOT SAY. I offered you everything that I had but it was not enough…”, “…I think of you often and that will never change, I am sure of that.”
This article is so excellently written that I want to kick your ass too, H.G.! Imagine that! Shame on you. But that’s what makes each day easier, coming here and getting an education, even though some of it sets off triggers and pisses me off. Great work!
Thank you NOA.
Spot on! Too true!
This made me laugh because it is so true. Have you ever wanted to cry and laugh at the same time? That is how I felt reading it.
NOA! The quotes you highlighted, I recalled reading this article the first time while still having the push pull contact on and off again with JN, and thinking with relief “I know that feeling”. I was so relieved to not feel alone. I wrote similar sentiments but didn’t lay it on quite as thick. Now I read it and I’m more like you thinking “for real?”. He’s the Prince amongst men and you’re just pond scum? Ick.
Knowing what I know now about HG, he is nomadic and will Hoover for the thrill of a fuel fix but never to re-establish the formal relationship, it’s heartbreaking to know these words from “C” were futile. Just like mine to JN were.
Our words to them are always futile. They do what they want to do and nothing we say will change their minds. They have a plan but we are never privy to it.
Clarence, that’s me now. At least you now realise he’s a pond scum! 😆 I tend to use HG as in indicator to how my narc thinks or would behave, eg like you said he wouldn’t hoover to re-establish formal relationship, whereas I would’ve kept wishing… if I hadn’t stumble into this blog. Initially I kept thinking I’m the one chasing him after discard, but now I can think better, I can see he has done a lot of hoovering so I never quite escape and he keeps me hoping. Especially now I am slipping away and no longer as bothered, he’s ramping it up. Right, I’ve been typing Hoover so many types the last few days, adverts on hoovers keep popping up on my browser.
It makes a huge difference when they Hoover and it affects how you react when you’re thinking it’s because they miss you, need to have you again, you want them back even more vs realizing they’re doing it out of boredom, just a fuel fix to see your reaction, or to malignly f*ck with you with no intention of truly getting back. Mine hoovered much more when I was emotionally caught up in the dance and it would always lead to fighting. Then last fall, thru the holidays and early this year, he was still in contact a lot but whenever I could tell his texting tone was changing and withdrawing (which would normally provoke me into fighting with him and then he’d get his negative fuel fix) I’d just withdraw too. And it has really waned now. Plus I have him blocked on all social media.
“whenever I could tell his texting tone was changing and withdrawing (which would normally provoke me into fighting with him and then he’d get his negative fuel fix) I’d just withdraw too. And it has really waned now. Plus I have him blocked on all social media.”‘
That’s what happened to me. After hoovering me back in last August, by October he started withdrawing. I told him “ah, the silent treatment is coming. I already told you that I know you’re a sociopath and with knowledge comes power and that is why you can’t push my buttons or hurt me anymore”. After that I blocked him on everything. It’s been 10 months now of no contact!
Yeah, that fuel is not hot. Lol. And poof they’re gone.
Although I went thru the phase while first reading here that I was going to matter of fairly point out to JN all of his narc tendencies. So a couple of times I got Hoovers that led to us fighting and him telling me I’m the Narc. He told me I use dime store psychology on him (he has the psychology degree). He told me he never saw such an extreme display of projection that I use on him and I’m the emotional vampire. I think it rattled him somewhat with me calling him out on it but I stopped because those fights were too draining. I just told him one time that I’m the first in a long line he’ll eventually hear this from. Lol
They are draining, aren’t they? Good for you on calling him out. I don’t think they care though. 😛
Yes, MLA-Clarece! It makes me sad, embarrassed, and angry. For me now, it’s more embarrassment and anger. I want to hurt my ex- physically (even though I’d never hurt a flea, just visualize it). I want to see him suffer, and that’s all I feel now. I want revenge because in my case, I lowered my standards with him as far my type goes. I blew him off so many times, and I gave him a shot because of potential, not knowing I had been targeted because he could tell I was broken. I overestimated him as an opponent because that what it really was. I was defeated before I even got into the ring. Lesson learned – a painful and embarrassing lesson at that.
My ex N’s hoover, I thought, was for a thrill as well, but I’ve since learned it was out of necessity. He’s not with the IPPS that he replaced me with. When he hoovered 9 months post-discard in March of this year, they were splitting then. He needed someone to replace her, so he called me with fake apologies and lies, trying to uproot me from my job and home to move to another city where he could isolate me and continue to break me down, even proposed to me over the phone and hadn’t seen nor heard from me in 9 months, isn’t that some shit- the balls on this guy!!!
I had found HG by then and had done some extensive research on him. The red flags I had ignored when I was blinded by love, were actually bread crumbs that would have led me out of his forest of lies to the truth about who I was really dealing with. Gut instinct should never be ignored. Memories of the golden period are hard because I have to keep beating into my mind that it was not real just to stop missing that time when everything was “golden”.
Perspective and interpretation are so damn dangerous with these situations and these types of people.
So true! And so heartbreaking to read about your pain, MLA – Clarece. You have my deepest sympathy. I, too, know the feeling so well. Sounds like JN made his own bed and now gets to lie in it. You’re better off! I hope you stay strong and rise above his level.
So true! And so heartbreaking to read about your pain, MLA – Clarece. You have my deepest sympathy. I, too, know the feeling so well. Sounds like JN made his own bed and now gets to lie in it. You’re better off! I hope you stay strong and rise above his level.
Now you’ve said it, an argument always seems to erupt on his part. I used to join in on heated arguments and was furious but in the last few discards I simply didn’t join in and I notice he now dishes out the silent treatment instead. During the arguing phase that he always initiates out of the blue, he twists all my words or actions and turns them against me, then a sudden explosion of rage on his part. This is where he expects me to lash out emotionally – so in the past I did and I used to be absolutely baffled when he continued the relationship. I still react emotionally nowadays of course (it still bloody hurts) but on a severely reduced level, I don’t generally argue back. Emotionally, I’m little affected too as I know so much now, therefore don’t provide potent fuel, hence the silent treatment and discard by him. Makes sense! I am putting him off unintentionally merely by knowing more and instinctively not reacting.
Must be hard arguing with someone with a psychology degree! Glad you’re no longer caught up in the dance. I’m still in the dancing and wondering why I’m still in hell phase.
Yes, they are so draining. I’m still emotionally drained after my most recent encounter with him. I wish it’s properly over but i guess he isn’t finished with me yet. He’s blocked on everything, but he always seems to get through to me somehow and I don’t stand a chance against him at the moment as soon as he does. Need to escape to another planet.
“This letter indeed reinforced what I knew. I was right.”
What were you right about? Such a beautiful yet sad story. Both of you write as if you belong in history books, written hundreds of years ago. So eloquent. I am envious of your command of the English language. I am sorry for her sadness. I am glad you did not bury the feelings.