Who’s The Daddy
I remember when I first met you. It was on a dance-floor and of course I caught your eye, I wanted you to catch my eye. I always draw those needed admiring glances when I move through a crowd but whilst those were required and welcome, I was focussed on ensuring you noticed me. I knew that you would. It was just a question of time. It always is. I was stood near one of the bars.I always chose this bar as it was elevated allowing everyone to see me and allowing me to see everyone and it was from this vantage point that I observed you. I saw you enter the room, your tight as tight could be dress already turning heads and you smiled, winked and blew kisses as you walked down the steps onto the dance floor as if everybody in the club was there for you. You were confident alright but you were over confident and I could see straight through that. I kept watching you as you flirted with the men nearby, irrespective of whether they were with another lady and you seemed oblivious to the hateful stares you received from the handful of girlfriends or wives whose other halfs you flirted with. I was interested in you already. If I had a Spidey sense it would have been tingling.
Your lithe frame entered the dancefloor and you felt that the coloured lights and throaty bass were all there for you as you began to dance. You caught the eye of several men and one by one they tried to dance with you .I could see you smiling to yourself as you turned your back on those you deemed beneath you. Each of them was well-dressed and good-looking but you rejected them. You milled around the dance floor until you neared your target, a handsome chap but he was older than those you had rejected and he was your choice. You pulled the chosen one towards you and you began your dance with him. I could see the way that you were grinding against this man on the dance floor was provocative and suggestive. You maintained eye contact with him, as if letting him out of your sight would cause him to disappear. Your eyes burned with wanton desire and your undulating and writhing was most definitely sexual in nature. The sexual aggression flowed from you and this caught my interest. You appeared as a bright dot on my radar and I knew that I needed to learn more.
It was not long before this dance partner was cast aside and replaced by a tastier and more attractive prospect. Me. You draped your arms about my neck as we danced, ground your crotch into my thigh, turned and pushed your pert posterior into my crotch and it was clear you wanted to seduce me. I played along, reciprocating the movements, letting my hands glide across your body as I eventually steered you across to the bar area and sat beside you on a couch as I ordered us both a drink. This was the first time that I had seen you be still and it allowed me to appraise properly your appearance. Your hair, a dirty blonde colour was not cut but rather chopped short, sticking out in a variety of angles which gave the appearance of not caring but most likely had been carefully pulled and twisted into place before a generous layer of hair spray was applied. I reasoned that you wore your hair short because as a child you were denied the right to have it cut short. You always had to have it long and golden, like the hair of a princess. I bet your father would read you stories about Sleeping Beauty, Snow White and Rapunzel as he stroked your hair, telling you how beautiful it was because it was long. I imagined that you wanted to cut it as you got older, the length being difficult to maintain but moreover too symbolic of the safe, suburban and middle-class upbringing you had received when you wanted to rebel. I bet you fought to have that hair cut even just by a few inches but you were forbidden from doing so and now this punkish, chopped and almost butchered hair style was the two-fingered salute you had given to your past. It screamed its story to me since I recognised it from a mile.
Your lipstick was bright red, your eyes framed by black mascara, eye liner and a battleship grey eye shadow. You were thin. Stick-like and I recognised such a frame. You stared at me as you sucked on the straw sliding it in and out of those pursed lips as you tried, without subtlety, to suggest what I might have coming my way. You were much younger than me. I would imagine at least fifteen years between us. Nowhere near illegality of course, that is not my penchant at all, but a sufficient age gap that was noticeable and of course something they would comment on, he would comment on, if they ever met me. If.
I saw the tattoos on your arms, great sleeves of floral designs and also similar on your thigh as your already short dress rode up as you sat on the sofa. I could see the design was intricate and extensive across your left thigh but it did not mask the line of scars completely. That neat and ordered row of incisions that had been made in your thigh, like notches on a bedpost. They brought you relief, temporary and momentary, but they also shamed you and thus you sought the ink in an attempt to mask those wounds in the same way that I knew this overt confidence, flirtation and sexual aggression was just a mask as well. That light on my radar shone brighter and I could almost smell the fuel that I knew would flow from you freely and readily, just like the blood had flowed down your thigh. I held your gaze, those flinty eyes trying to burn into my mind but getting nowhere, a slight flicker of confusion and then they shifted into conveying that desire you oozed. You had no idea whose web you had flown into but I knew exactly what you were.
“What time is your daddy picking you up?” I asked my question near shouted to be heard over the music playing.
You coughed, the straw shooting from your mouth as you jerked your glass away.
“What? My dad? He’s not picking me up,” you protested. Your expression was not one of mild amusement but rather disdain and irritation. Just as I thought it would be.
“Of course not. Why would he do that when you are coming home with me?” I added with a wide smile. Your eyes widened and you copied my smile.
“I do love daddy issues,” I said quietly.
“What?” you asked unable to hear.
“I said, I nearly missed you,” I replied in a louder tone, “I was about to go home.”
“Well, it is a good job you didn’t,” you answered as you moved closer to me, pressing that fragile and broken frame against me, seeking the warmth, shield and protection that I offered you. You had found your new daddy. I had found a potent new victim.
143 thoughts on “Who’s The Daddy”
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Hello HG, update !! After the diagnosis from the hours session with the psychiatrist and to get to that point there were doctors appointments and telephone consultations with various organisations, plus full assessments as you know the psychiatrist diagnosed BPD and Cluster C personality disorder together . I still believe lower mid range victim narcissist . But anyway let’s say the psychiatrist is correct ? The next step was phoning an organisation to arrange therapy , so we did today and this is what was offered
A crisis cafe , open 2 afternoons per week that he can visit .
OR
An arts and craft centre
OR
Activity centre where gardening is available .
When I explained the whole thing again on the phone with N there listening , to them via phone .
They said this was therapy and if he wanted one on one therapy it is available but he would have to be assessed and there’s a wait list .
When I said he has been assessed by 5 different places and now diagnosed , they just went back to the activities offered .
I actually nearly burst out laughing on the phone when they suggested these things and you can imagine N’s response .
Absolutely hopeless.
He is now saying he’ll have to pay for private .
My point is the cluelessness of this , and whilst I do appreciate these activities may be useful to some people for many reasons they are NOT for him .
They mentioned anger management (more normalising of narc behaviour)
It’s bloody laughable !!!
Indeed but in any event you are continuing to engage when you need not do so.
Yes very true HG
Spanked… Sounds like an article many of the religious guys I know would love to read LOL.
Ok, no more fantasies of A. Petrovsky or M. Baryshnikov for me .
I am sure I have daddy and mommy issues. Both my parents were pretty crappy. However, I have only dated two men who were much older than me. Most have been my age, or only a few years older and even a few years younger. However, part of me did became a little girl in most of my relationships. Problem was, they were also emotionally immature too, just like mommy, daddy and myself.
Beautifuly written and descriptive of your keen eye to reading others, particularly prey.
Forgive my random and crass question but did the incredibly horny part of me wonders what happened after you took her home with you? 🤔😏
You can read about it in the article “Spanked” which will be published in the coming week.
For real? “Spanked”?
Just in time for my B-Day next weekend. HG, you shouldn’t have! Lol
You like that too? My birthday isn’t until November. Heavy sigh.
You never know RS… maybe come November, HG will do a live stream themed around Sex and the Narcissist?
He’d better make that an all day event…
I would be glued to my computer the entire day then! 😉
I don’t think you’d be alone in that. Haha
Oh my! 😳 I look forward to reading it. At least I think I do. LOL.
“Spanked”! Oh, I just blushed!
I have a clear picture in my head. . .
Omg! Blushed too.
‘daddy’ spanked her for being a naughty girl???
Oh my! *blush*
Clarece
My bday is next weekend, too!
Spanked lol…
I………..
I’m just going to keep my mouth shut (or attempt to) lol.
Of course you(HG) would make the title of an article “spanked”.
I’m sure this is going to be a good read…
😛
Ugh…
::cringe::
I remember my ex wanted me to call him “Papi” when he fucked me a few times.
He actually had a red pair of like red boxer briefs that had Papi on the waistband. They were barely boxer briefs. Honesty, after looking up the brand of underwear ‘Papi’ I read something about a lot of homosexual men wear that brand. In retrospect they were quite flamboyant. Lol
I digress…
Yeah, that whole calling a man daddy… isn’t my think. It just creeps me out lol.
I get the whole dominant man disciplining the more submissive woman… when you add daddy in the equation my panties go back on and I’m outta there lol.
Needless to say…I never called him Papi…
Im curious too we need details and lots of them! I feel an errotic story coming on. Blow hush out of the water 😄
My 1st N & 1st husband was a Greater & 8 years older than I…. 2nd N & 2nd husband was a cerebral and 6 years younger than I, 3rd N & 3rd husband, is midranger, & 12 years younger…. I see a pattern in where when I was very young, it was the older N’s I attracted…. as I aged, it is the much younger N’s… why?
I wanted my father dead. No issues there.
I never knew my father that well but he was a narc and when he died, two years ago, I thought the world was a better place without him and never shed a tear. He made my sibling’s life a living hell and it trickled down to me. They treated me the way they were treated.
Ditto, RS.
Most people are pretty messed up, I think. If they say they aren’t, they’re lying.
HG that surprises me and although you were older than her ? Was this when you were younger ?
It was, Lisa.
I seem to have missed something, who is Lisa?
The person who commented.
RS, HG is saying it was lisa , meaning correct Lisa to me. Not the girl in the story was called Lisa
Ok, thank you. I work in an assisted living facility and I swear I am catching Alzheimer’s from the residents! 😳😩
Ha ha 😀
Gabby,
if you felt, it has nothing to do with your father, it is like that! Even therapists have only theories and sometimes very old theories, which do not fit. They only can give you some suggestions, what it could be. The decision whether it fits or not is every time your own decision and only your decision! Sometimes even their wrong assumptions are helpful to find out what the real problem is. I agree with your therapist that the sexual addiction probably has nothing to do with the emotional addiction. Maybe your narc was only the first man who met your sexual desires best and then it is only natural that you miss the sex with him. I still miss the sex with one man, who was not a narc but he was good between the sheets for me. And my narc was a good lover too,but he could not cause any sexual addiction. That was because I knew that there are other men who are on the same sexual level like me and they are not narcissists. That was my luck.
Mona,
I enjoyed sex with him and it was always very heightened emotional experience for me but the thing that was so twisted was that my narc loved to act like he was an amateur therapist in the way he explained everything to me. He actually analyzed me to my face. “You are seeking validation by having sex with me. You seek this validation because I think you did not get enough validation when you were a child…” He was a cerebral so I am not sure if this is a game of theirs or if all narcs sing the tune of amateur therapist. He often said he was considering returning to school to change his career and become a therapist. (probably due to his know-it-all stance on the matter). This is so frightening. I can just envision him finding more people to fuck with this way. Literally and figuratively of course.
Gabby,
I do not know it for sure.
There is more than one possible solution. I tell you three possibilities.
(1) Did he really try to analyse you, or did he try to influence/manipulate you into thinking you were looking for validation through sex?
It could be that he tried that to manipulate you. Are you really trying to get validation through sex? Or did he connect two different things?
You liked the sex with him, because it was fun and you liked him.
And you were looking for validation, because you did not get enough in childhood.
Do you see the difference? Two different things and he only connected them.
(2)
Maybe there was some truth in his words. What does that mean for you? Is it a bad thing for you? Or is it o.k. for you? Your thinking and your feelings about it are important, not his interpretation.
(3) If he was a mid range, he analysed himself and projected it onto you. He was looking for validation ….. through having sex with you.
When people start to tell you, what you feel or should feel or give you an explanation about yourself, be careful. This advice is not only useful in contact with narcs, it is useful in contact with therapists too. They do not know it better, because they have studied it.
No one can look into your brain or know your feelings.You alone have the right ! and the power ! to decide about it. You alone.
My ideas are only suggestions, no explanations. Please keep that in mind.
I hope I expressed it well enough in English, so you can understand, what I was trying to explain.
Mona,
Once I asked him “why am I so magnetically drawn and attracted to you? Mentally and sexually?” I asked it in my bewilderment because I had never felt like that about anyone before. And his response was we had so much in common and “clicked” with each other and because of that I loved him and wanted that sexual closeness with him. But then he also said “you never got enough attention as a child, or validation and you also seek that from me too and you seek it in a sexual manner”. (He knew of my disoriented upbringing). While we were intimate with one another I always asked him if what I was doing was making him feel good. I asked that because I wanted to make sure I was making him feel good. I didn’t think a thing of it because I just wanted him to feel good I mean why wouldn’t I? I have strong feelings for him and I wanted his happiness in every way, at that time sexual happiness. Yet in his analysis of me it was that I sought validation in pleasing him sexually. 🙄
Hi gabbs…your ex sounds so patronizing!! He knew all that bc he was taking advantage of the very things he told you. He sounds like a greater and definitely a know it all.
I consulted with HG twice and he was identified as cerebral middle range but 2nd consult pointed more to upper mid ranger. But yes he is a total know it all. With pitied tortured soul “I’m not intelligent it’s an illusion” mixed in there). Always narc Opposite Day.
The daddy issues I get. Having been emotionally neglected by my biological father along with being abused by my narc mother and my narc stepdad, I admit I have major daddy and mommy issues. I definitely snuggled up to my narc seeking the warmth, shield, and protection he offered. It seems to be what I do with everyone who offers me that feeling of safety and love.
Oh, that is completely different for me. I always felt superior when someone much older than me tried to contact me. I always tried to make them hot and then let them stand in the rain. I always thought of their withered bodies and their false teeth.
I never thought they could protect me or would replace my father or would give me the love I missed so much by my father..
When I was on a family gathering there was a workmate of my uncle. I was twelve years old and the workmate asked me for a dance. I noticed his sexual interest in me and played a little bit with him. I thought what a stupid, old man. No one of my family noticed it. I did not know at that time, that his daughters had to pay the price…later that night. Two very shy young girls…, one a little bit younger than me, the other one of my age. They seemed to be shy and afraid/ scared. I had no idea why. How gullible I was.
Now I know why….
I still have a bad conscience about these young girls. As far as I know he got his punishment/ sentence later.
Not your fault! He was the adult here, he was going to do this with or without your “teasing” those girls already were being abused, They were already scared/shy.
Narcs should be put in a straight jacket in an isolation room and be talked at for hours about what they really are then left alone then talked at again . This could go on for months . They’d enjoy that !!!
Oh and gagged so they can’t speak !! I wonder if a narc was gagged and in a straight jacket and the fury set it what would happen . They might burst into flames or be forced to sit with the fury until it subsides
You would be head butted probably!
You would be tied to a chair! Would you implode? 😉
Robins ha ha I think HG would implode I know my narc would , he’d burst into flames !!
That would certainly be fun to watch!
I would like to apologise in advance to anyone that may have BPD that follows this blog, for my ignorance and understanding . However I still don’t understand BPD despite extensive reading , I still believe my narc could actually be a borderline or a narc with co morbid borderline. I have also read that covert narcissists and Borderlines are more or less the same thing Ouch if that offends anyone . I could easily label my ex a borderline because it’s so similar in traits as the narcissist.
I don’t understand why HG you would date borderlines as you’ve said you have no interests in your kind , yes they are not your kind but it’s all still Cluster B.
Because they fountain with fuel and they have empathy. They present a challenge which proves most rewarding.
Challenge being they are capable of detaching and discarding ?
Yes, albeit they always come back.
Same as narcs then ?
Similar.
HG, do you prefer borderlines as an IPSS as opposed to an IPPS?
And do all schools of Ns like the challenge of a borderline, or are they unable to cope with someone so challenging?
1. No.
2. No – the fuel yes, the issue with control becomes problematic because of the collision.
Cheers HG!
1. Hmmm not sure I understand your response? BecuSe they’re not your preferred ipss? So I had clearly incorrectly assumed you’d prefer them as an ssip.
Do you then mean that you would take either depending on what’s going no. On in your fuel matrix and I assume when ipss they would suffer a swifter devaluation.
2. So all ‘love’ them – well they fuel! But only a true greater can exert control over one? Would that’s be a fair statement?
They are not preferred, no.
Yes a Greater would exert control the most effectively but then they would be confined to IPSS and not IPPS for me anyway as I prefer the Magnet Super Empath, some Greaters may have them as an IPPS.
I read (prob HG book or article) that BPD and or traits are ideal and a magical fit (my words) as is the co-dependent. Labels suck but for this purpose if one is CD or BPD we have no sense of self. At least NPD has a false sense of self. And to boot it is grandiose. It made me more dangerous or what you would say targeted. My sense of self zero. Narcs sense of self (may truly be zero) BUT IT MANIFESTS AS STRENGTH TO A BRAVADO FAULT. Which of course I did not see. Know. Or grasp. And I gravitated to. It’s life velcro with these traits (speaking for myself) his were the hooks and be mine were the fuzz. Stuck together and tore apart viciously. Sadistically. Yet it seemed like destiny. Such a mind fuck. Body soul spirit heart too.
I am ignorant of BPD too………exactly how do they represent a challenge……..I would have thought challenging behaviour would cause a narc fury of some kind?? Diva
No usually. Please read Fight, Flight or Fuel. Their challenging behaviour is almost always accompanied by fuel and therefore amounts to Challenge Fuel – this does not cause an ignition of fury. It is wounding which causes the ignition of fury.
Okay….I will add that book to my ever growing list….I really don’t have time for other narcs or anyone else since I found this blog. Some of your followers are no doubt pining when you are away, but it’s often a saving grace for me, as I strive to keep up with current posts, past posts and books. Sometimes I am on the cusp of asking you to unplug yourself from the mains…….I will try and keep pace! Diva
Ha ha, I am pleased you are continuing to read, I cannot unplug from the mains Diva, I need fuel!
Tappan zee…your post on bpd and npd i found interesting and very true. In a nutshell both are not whole people and are looking to make themselves whole using another person.
Hi lisa! I am borderline so i can answer some of ur questions.
Some differences:
Narcs- devoid of certain emotions
Borderlines – overflowing w every emotion
Narcs – no empathy, no love
Borderlines – posess empathy and fall in love quickly and easily due to being v emotional
Narcs – wud never hurt themselves due to feelings of superiority
Borderlines – hurt themselves physically eg. cutting behavior or fake cutting behavior, strangling oneself until it hurts, faked suicide attempts due to not being heard
Some similarities:
Narcs- crave attention
Borderlines – crave attention
Narcs – are argumentative to gain fuel/emotion
Borderlines – are argumentative to understand and try to calm down their emotions
Narcs – codependent until discard
Borderlines – often codependent indefinitely
Narcs- rely on others to validate themselves
Borderlines – rely on specific pple to validate themselves, usually the ones who reject them
Reads like a fair summary there Jenna, thank you.
Ty HG.
Hi Jenna, it’s very kind of you to list this thank you . Can you explain why borderlines devalue and discard , I understand it might be for a different reason than a narcissist does , but neverless if borderlines do love and attach and have emotions why would they risk the very thing that they don’t want to happen , which is someone leaving ? Are they testing ? Or do they feel in that moment they have no feelings for that person anymore ? But really they do ?
That is an awesome cheat sheet Jenna!
Jenna,
In reading the BPD and NPD differences and similarities I’m starting to self diagnose myself as BPD now. Everything seems to apply to me except cutting and suicidal thoughts and ideas. If anything getting a paper cut accidentally hurts so much I cry. I have a low physical pain tolerance; cutting would just hurt and not make me feel better. But everything else you’ve written fits. Urrghhhh. 😕
Hi Jenna,
Your information about the differences between NPD and BPD is very helpful. Thank you!
You are caring and empathic and not like people I have met who have been diagnosed with a BPD. They lack empathy, they do not have any positive feelings or emotions, they are manipulative, aggressive and seem to hate everybody. For example, a relative of mine who was diagnosed with a BPD attempted more than once to kill himself in front of his three children when they were young. People who have empathy would never do such a thing.
I have read that there are empathic people who have been wrongly diagnosed with a BPD, although they actually have C-PTSD or a bipolar disorder.
Coming from a narcissistic family, I have symptoms of C-PTSD and I find Pete Walker’s book Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving very helpful.
I can be very emotional, but not sure if I overflow with it.
I don’t think I fall in love quickly because of trust issues but can fall in love with someone that makes me feel good about myself.
I have cut myself but not to get attention and not ever used cutting as emotional blackmail.
I dont crave attention per se, not argumentative except in my own mind!
I think I could become co-dependant.
May be when I reach our to people in my loneliness I’m seeking validation. I don’t know.
I do feel that I wasn’t given the attention that I needed as a child.
I don’t think I’m terrified of being abandoned -I live alone and have had a lonely upbringing. But I do feel abandoned by Narchole and that’s caused me a lot of pain which led me to cut myself again.
Jenna
That was an excellent and informative post.
E.B. wrote: “[…]with a BPD. They lack empathy, they do not have any positive feelings or emotions, they are manipulative, aggressive and seem to hate everybody.”
Hi E.B.!
I can explain where does borderline’s surrounding may derive that “lack of empathy” impression.
Border is overwhelmed with his own emotions, and when this happens (in the invalidation environment, for example, it can be permanent feeling), there are almost no place left for “other’s shoes” in his soul. He forgets about others’ feelings these moments – overflooded with his own.
Also, for example, somebody sends him that “poor animals” post – and he reacts aggressively. Why? Tries to cover himself from additional stimulation.
No that “news’ problems” are allowed to disturb his high sensitivity.
He will pass by homeless people with no reaction: not because has no empathy to them, but because have too much empathy if let this information go inside his brain: need to restrict consciously his empathy input to the only most important things, that can not be avoided.
Every border from the beginning searches for ways how to beat or avoid his emotions.
So there is not lack of empathy, but overpresence of empathy. So the input is restricted. This is first.
And overreacting to stimulus every time when threatened. This is second.
He does not like to be aggressive or to rage. That means only that environment is extremely invalidating for him.
And of course it doesn’t exclude post-traumatic irritability on everything, it can be present is exact case…
To threaten narc you need to question him or his control.
To threaten border you need to validate him negatively (even in the most subtle way) or bring him negative emotions in any way, considering his low threshold.
That’s why both’ reactions are so unpredictable for others in “normal” situations.
I’m sure there are different schools of borders, based on intelligence, self-awareness, self-control and cultural levels, – same as with narcs.
So their behavior vary drastically too.
—
Nice thread, have not seen it yesterday yet, when was writing long answer on borders.
No wonder, so many undiagnosed borders here – should be.
Sure lisa! Borderlines have usually faced trauma in their childhood of being separated frm loved ones/ caregivers etc. For example, death of a parent, rejection by parents, being pulled back and forth btwn different caregivers. So they are TERRIFIED of abandonment. It is a wound they’ve suffered in childhood, so anytime somebody important leaves them or rejects them, all those negative feelings come rushing back w great intensity. It is a delayed (in life) onset of ptsd.
For example, when my ex mid-ranger used to cancel at the last minute, i wud get a panic attack. Borderlines will do ANYTHING to avoid these painful feelings, including suicidal ideation. Or, discard him first b4 he discards me. It is a defense mechanism. We don’t even realize we’re doing it. (Well, now i do). For example, when my ex told me he doesn’t feel any attachment towards me (rejection), i immediately felt my panic striking. I then told him ‘well then stop coming by the house’ (discard) to which he replied ‘u can’t tell me what to do; i’ll come when i want’ – mission accomplished.
Mind u, i didn’t discard him to accomplish any mission. It was my natural defense to the feelings of rejection and oncoming panic. But when he replied that he will come whenever he pleases, i felt the feelings of rejection vanish. And then i realized that discarding him first accomplished that.
Jenna your explanations are very helpful. Would you say Borderlines feel emotionally dead at times . I’ve read about borderlines having that emptiness inside ?
Hi Jenna!!!
Excellent job with your summary on BPD and NPD comparison!!!
Very accurate from what I have learned and witnessed.
Hi jenna…ive not been diagnosed but im pretty certain im borderline too. Most of everything you list i have and ive researched it as well and i check off most on the list. I think like npd its a spectrum with different severities. Im definitely not severe but im not sure im mild either. Bpd doesnt mean youre narcissistic or lack empathy but there are some similarities. It was relieving to put a name to how i felt and had been most of my life. Understanding is the first important step to treating a disorder.
Forgot to add ive never cut or have harmed myself. That im not familiar with but have read why certain people with bpd do this.
Jenna
Do the bpd have issues of lying, theft and any addictions? Are they violent? Thank you.
Jenna,
Excellent explanation!
Well Jenna, I’m gonna be real here – I do similar things. I honestly think most people have a fear of abandonment:
1. The person you ‘depend’ on has left you and now you have to fend for yourself.
2. The stability and security have been ripped from you.
3. Part of you and your identity has been ripped from you. Borderlines especially have difficulty in that identity department.
4. Most important: The rejection – I am not good enough. I am unlovable…
Gbean, i hope u r not borderline. It’s horrible!
I don’t know. Lots of what you typed describes me minus the cutting. 😕
Aww, ur so cute “i don’t know.” There are a few online tests to determine unofficially if u r borderline. Why don’t u try one? I did. I scored v high.
Ty indy. 💕
And ty clarece. 💜
I just found out I am also Borderline. I know my Narc absolutely loves to go back and forth with me. Jenna yes it is definitely a race against who disagree whom. I definitely understand every feeling, action and reaction you have expressed
SpanishPrincess, I hope you don’t mind me cutting into this conversation, but may I ask , how you found out you were BPD and how that manifests itself for you to reach that diagnosis , thank you
Hi, Lisa! As a Borderline myself I can bring some additional clarifications on your question, from the inside.
Borderlines are similar to Narcissists because suffered of same childhood persistent traumatization. They both are “lost in the mirror” of external appreciation. Both are highly sensitive to any critics and both can be unpredictable in rages.
What is the key difference? When Narcissist’s emotions was successfully suppressed (“feel nothing”), Borderline’s emotions, on the contrary, are evolved to unbearably intense level. It’s like normal people feel 25% of maximal emotion intensity, Borderline feels all 80%. That’s exactly why all that behaviors including self damaging, fast driving, mood altering drugs etc: trying to numb the overwhelming emotions intensity.
And also emptiness inside and absent identity, but that is better done with appreciation by others.
Significant visible difference – borderlines tend to say “Sorry” each time soon after you witnessed how their emotions were not under control. There is usually not “You are always to blame”, like with the Narcissist, but opposite: “I am always to blame”. Even when obviously abused –
borderline still can not estimate himself, what objectively has happen (“maybe it’s me to blame?”) They are not injured when you tell them they are Borderlines – more often (this is info from practitioner), they tend to feel relief instead, that somebody understood their inner struggle. If to say ‘you are narcissist’ – will honestly try to apply it to himself, and with sadness find out that it doesn’t help because unfit.
Deep inside their self-esteem is low (well, it’s rather rollercoaster dependent on what others give them), and shame is overwhelming. But they are trying to hide that all – exactly like the girl in this story, by seductive or charming behavior, and also other methods.
Drawn to Narcissists – because trying to heal the childhood trauma with “daddy”. Desperately need to have Narcissists’ love – it’s like a chance to heal. It’s magnetic attraction. And familiar communication discourse with no feeling of personal boundaries (“I see you like control? yes, take it all – together with my passwords from social media, if you will feel happy then”). They both come from the same environment families.
And! Borderlines are afraid of being abandoned (to the panic attacks, to the total numbing himself and “better I will go away first! or maybe even go from this world”), that’s why there will be no silent treatments or similar abandoning provoking methods.
Splitting into black and white vision? Yes. Discarding people? Yes, not purposely, but when disappointed – it just happens inside.
I was unable to find articles by HG on the BPD topic yet.
The Supernova moment looks exactly like Borderline’s sudden devaluation feels, when positive projection is cracked by something (not necessary reasonable to the observers) and replaced with negative one. Borderline then explodes with all the spectrum of “Enough!” emotions – hate, rage etc, and the chaos begins… Heaven becomes hell then. A colossal energy can be put there (it’s not the short usual rage).
I don’t want to experience that battle with Greater btw… Must be very emotionally draining (that’s exactly worrying about what I’m hanging on this site: I’m preparing myself)).
So Borderlines rather stand there – together with (other) Super Empaths. Or they are same thing at all.
Covert Narcissists feed on overt ones, but are still Narcissists with the same inner dynamics. It is impossible to totally suppress your emotions and feel them at extreme level like Borderline do.)
Hope this will help to understand your partner.
Antifragile …wow your post describes borderline so exact!! Ty for posting this! I think too both borderline and narcissism are on spectrums so you can get varying degrees. On misconception is borderlines dont feel empathy with is the polar opposite they feel TOO deeply! Borderlines can exhibit narc traits but so can anyone and they are not narcissists.
Doesn’t help me understand any better!! I believe my ex partner is a Borderline but she is not in any way contrite about it, never admitted fault (for ANYTHING) and when presented with the idea of being BPD rejected it entirely but acted in a borderline manner nonetheless.
I guess she was strongly narcissistic….
Hi Antifragile thank you for this explanation it’s very helpful , I’ve changed my user name from Lisa to Scarlet . I just wanted to acknowledge your comment . But I have to admit I’m still bloody confused Ha Ha . I can’t help but think Borderlines are some kind of narcissist . Sorry if everyone disagrees including the medical profession , but as they are grouped in Cluster B I can’t help but think it’s some form of subtype of narcissist. Can I ask if anyone on this blog knows what the qualifications are to be a therapist trained in personality disorders ? In England UK? I know there are many cluster A , B and C and I appreciate it’s a spectrum and people will be studying different areas . Generally speaking though are there any UK therapists on this blog that know what qualifications you need to work as a therapist for these disorders for example Cluster B ? HG do you know ? Thank you
I do not know.
HG I’m presuming she never became one of your formal girlfriends?
ON this occasion yes. Daddy Issues falls under Special Traits.
At 17, I moved in with a 40 y/o. He was my ticket away from my abusive father. The 40 y/o was a functioning alcoholic (happy drunk though) sex maniac & psychologically manipulating. He is one ex I’m unsure is a narcissist or not. He seemed genuinely heartbroken for some of the horrid sad life experiences of his past.
Though as I read this back, I realise he probably was. What ‘normal’ 40 y/o thinks being with a 17 y/o is ok??
My therapist once told me that the issues I experienced with my narc resulted in issues from my unstable upbringing and me mseeking attention and validation from my narc as if he was my father. This made no sense to me as I actually had a good relationship with my father. It was my mother who I did not have a good relationship with. Do mommy issues equal daddy issues? Or is there a separate article to come on mommy issues?
Separate article.
I look forward to it!
I look forward to this article on mommy issues.
Gabby, the first ones I fell in love with , have been like my father, always a little bit mysterious, but no narcs. Then I changed my “hunting ground” and found someone who was similar to my mother. That was the narc. Through this experience (they (him and my mother) had very much in common on the surface) I found out that my mother is a little narcissist.
It is not always the father, you fall in love with. That is an error of some therapists.
Mona,
Good to know. The father thing she said made no sense to me because it was my dad was not abusive or controlling. My mom (I’ll save the story) was the issue with him and ultimately with me. Although in a whole despite my dad doing the best he could to raise and take care of me, everything was still incredibly just dysfunctional and unstable. My narc was also 5 1/2 years younger than me which also made no sense why she’d think that as I figure in that scenario the narc is usually way older. When I asked her why the sex with my narc was so addictive, ( I believe my exact quote was “Why would you think that he is like my Daddy? I don’t want to have sex with my father!” LOL..) she told me that it was nothing to do with the physicality of it, but it was all my emotional issues and they transferred over to that. I guess that’s how narcs sniff us out?
Scintillating prose.
This blog is a masterpiece.
Hmmmmm……first narc I dated…….I was 22…….he was 44……. I have never dated anyone remotely near my own age bracket……I found men my own age or under, too immature and unknowledgeable…..that’s my logic anyhow. Diva
How very appropriate that I find this post today. The day I finally got the courage to block my “Daddy”.
a step in the right direction! cheers!
I love this story its errotic yet it does get a message across.
When i first listened to it on utube it reminded me a bit of myself. Ive always loved older men altho my last narc was younger than me. Theres something about an older man that is a turn on. The protection and charm. Older men seem to provide more chivalry while younger men struggle with this.
In this story it seems to be a very young bipolar woman with daddy issues who is naive but thinks herself experienced. Of course she has no idea shes being ensnared by a narcissist and its not her ensnaring. This was my situation. I had my eye on my narc and thought i had pursued him but found out later he had noticed me way before i had noticed him. Hed been observing me. I found this flattering at first but after learning about narcissism i see it as calculating and scheming. He watched for my empathic traits then learned more about me and my weaknesses. Just like in the story the narc analyzed his victim and seen her rebellious side with her tattoos and choppy hairstyle then zoned in on her scars which is symbolic for our inner scars which a narcissist is an expert at seeing. Her narc knew all too well what those scars meant and how he could exploit her weaknesses. My narc knew from information he learned about me and from me directly. Looking back i served up so much info about myself without any question. We wear our hearts on our sleeves as empathic people. We serve ourselves up to be devoured by these types.
The girl in this story has no clue what shes in for but i do thru experience and learning. Her narc is experienced and knows exactly what his intentions are as did my narc. I see that our meeting was not by chance at all.
Oops not bipolar…borderline totally different. Cutting oneself is a symptom of a borderline personality not bipolar.
Looking back i served up so much info about myself without any question. We wear our hearts on our sleeves as empathic people. We serve ourselves up to be devoured by these types.
I need to stop doing this!!! I am too open and tell the world everything about me and my past and present. No wonder I’m such a target.
Hi robin…i cant help myself its in my nature. This is one of my downfalls. Another is expressing my happiness over good things in my life to the wrong people and having them rain on my parade so to speak.
My narc knows every tidbit about me yet i ask myself how much do i know about him truely? I know things about his life but i mean his weaknesses and uttermost deepest feelings…not much. Hes never expressed insecurity yet hes created it in me. He knows so much more about me thsn i do about him. A u tube i watched comes to mind and it more or less had the message to not give up too much info until you get some back meaning if the other person doesnt open up then we shouldnt. I agree with this yet i cant help it bc i want to be me fully and not worry about any consequences of that. I want to be relaxed and not worry about what i say or admit things about myself. I dont want to be like a narc and hide my true inner self yet in this world we have to protect ourselves from emotional psychological predators.
” I know things about his life but i mean his weaknesses and uttermost deepest feelings…not much.”
They don’t have and weaknesses or deep feelings, that’s why they don’t share them! I am like you also in that I wear my heart on my sleeve. And the part where you said you hate to tell others about your happiness as they will rain on your parade and make you doubt doing what you are doing. I used to be very trusting and that is the thing he stole from me that makes me the most sad. Now I look for narc signs in everyone I meet and stay tight lipped. It’s not my true self. I don’t like this person I have become because of him.
Hi robin…dont change who you are but just equip yourself with knowledge so you can pick and choose who you share your life moments with.
G
For instance my mother i was always eager to call to tell her anything that happened good in my life and she would each and every time squash it eventually i stopped. I no longer tell her anything. If i want to share good or bad news i share it with select people i trust and know will lift me up instead of step on me and make me feel like garbage. Its picking those you know have your back and wont stick a knife in it.
Good advice. I don’t tell my siblings if I have a dream or something that I would like to do because they always tell me that I shouldn’t or that I can’t. My mother did the same thing when she was alive. I know she was just trying to protect me but it left me with very little self confidence. I will work on that and get better. I will!
Hi gabbs…ty for the happy bday 🙂 hope your days a great one!
Me too Robin,
Told him so much about myself. And yet after 4 years I know little about him.
Anything he would have told me would probably have been made up.
In future I will not be so forthcoming about myself.
Out THERE, I’m getting pretty good at not spilling my guts. . . in HERE. . . I have told so many things I wouldn’t even tell people that I know in the flesh! (except Amy. She knows everything about me)
Narc Affair…..everyone I have ever been with (narc and non narc) has been YOUNGER than me. Not a lot I think the max younger was about 6 years). I met a guy once who was 17 years younger than me though and I was definitely drawn to him. He never called me again though after one kiss at the bar. But now I find myself opposite this older “Daddy” spectrum. Why the youngins I find myself wondering….why?
Why the youngins’? Because they’re like our own personal fountain of youth eager to please. Lol
I have always been attracted to younger men, maybe because I always looked so much younger than my age. When I was 18 I looked like it I was 12 😄 . I married a man that was five years younger than me. Now that I’m older the thought of being with someone even five years older than me makes me cringe. When I was on dating sites , ( I won’t go near them now) all the men my age wanted someone younger and of course they got them. I just wanted someone my own age. He’s a hard animal to find! I guess I am destined to be single the rest of my life, and that’s OK with me. I do miss the sex though.😩
Hi gabbs…we all have our preferences for different reasons. The funny thing is mostly younger men have flirted with me. My last narc was 6 yrs younger. There are aspects of younger men i do enjoy and thats their energy and being able to be silly and have fun. My narc is 61 but very young in personality which i enjoy. He laughs and can take a joke whereas many older people have hangups and are so serious and stressed out. Most of my friends are younger by 10 to 5 years and it keeps me feeling youthful. Im another year older today so i need it 😉
I definitely relate to all of that!!!! And happy birthday!!!!
I’m often mistaken for way younger than my age so I guess it makes sense I gravitate to the youngins! 😉
Sounds like a Borderline disordered cousin of the narcissist. That must make for an interesting coupling. Would you find that challenging and fun? How potent is their fuel? Detectable I’d imagine….
Yes. There is a myth that narcissists cannot handle borderlines, not so, they tend to be Geyser Empaths and therefore fountain with fuel. There is a challenge in controlling them, admittedly, but controlled they can be.
Have you ever come across an empath you couldn’t control HG?
No.
I am not surprised, we are predictable
Thank you
Strait jacket?
I know a Lesser who is married to a boderline. It is a wonder they have not killed each other yet.
We are. #gamesetmatch
How interesting, I never heard that myth. The first time I learned about the narcissistic and borderline dynamic was when I was in my clinical training and worked on a DBT unit and did groups daily. My supervisor instructed me that it is a very dangerous combination to have narcissists and borderlines in the same therapy group together because of the tendency of narcissist to target those with BPD specifically. It was often inevitable in our setting. I witnessed that dynamic and it led to a suicide attempt in two cases(not completed). Of course, these are severe cases of BPD and NPD as it was a full day program.
Is this one of your juicy Borderlines HG ?
Oh yes.
I think this makes me feel the most sad of all your articles.
And almost all of the young girls of today fit this criteria.
My mother is borderline but thankfully very different to this type. She is more of a waif but apart from sex (which she finds repulsive) and tattoos she ticks all the boxes. She seeks medical attention and is on an all time high when admitted to hospital – it’s the only time I see her happy.
I really want to help this girl so that she doesn’t need a daddy
Very good post HG.
I have been looking for my father in every narcissist I’ve ever dated. They’ve always been 18-20 years older than me and I revert back to being a 7-year-old with them due to my arrested emotional development. Just like Bambi looking for a savior in the terrifying thicket. The adoration I poured out was unending. I did anything and everything they wanted to gain their love. The last one crushed me the most. He cast the dye when I was 16. I never think about the others but I will think about him until I die.
I don’t know how to shake the subconscious need to make my relationship with my father right by perpetuating the cycle over and over again with narcissistic men. I go in to each relationship seemingly thinking I’ll finally earn the love of my father. It seems so incestuous. I only ever realize this behavior after it is over and I’ve been discarded for something newer and shinier.
HG, aren’t you bored with the pursuit of my kind or is the market so saturated with us that you have no choice when needing fuel? I would think there would be no challenge to retain your interest.
I am not bored with the pursuit as a whole, of course I become bored with individual appliances.
Hi 12345…im so sorry youve been hurt so deeply by these types of men. Youre right the cycle keeps coming up in life until we face it and break it down. I can see how i subconsciously was drawn to my narc. Its that need to please and be loved and accepted that we never got so we choose similiar people to gain that. It never happens tho bc theyre the same type of person and thats the whole point its their problem and was never ours. It only became our problem as a result of not having our needs met from a parent but from what ive read and learned we can mend that ourselves and relearn. Thinking differently is really difficult to change but not impossible. The first step is revognizing patterns and i see that i am choosing people or drawing them to me bc of my dynamic growing up with twl dysfunctional parents.
As if that poor girl wasn’t dealing with enough demons already.😞
Hi RS,
At first I felt the same though I also wonder was she using sex with him as another way to numb her own long term pain (as he is with fuel). Addict + addict
It’s a sad world we live in. 🙁