Vulnerable
Do you remember those early, heady days when I first began to seduce you? Of course you do. Those moments have been branded into your memory and can never be erased, no matter how hard you try. So wonderful were those initial months of our courtship as we began our dance together that you cannot help but recall them and feel that bittersweet tinge. Many times as you have fought through your devaluation and discard you have harked back to those magical moments as you sought some kind of solace from them. Somehow, as you sat with tear-stained cheeks you would force a smile through the misery as you latched on to remembering the things that I said to you, those beautiful, loving and mesmerising words which gripped your heart and took it heavenward. It was impossible to resist the love-bombing which I unleashed upon you and similarly it is impossible for you to banish those memories as you sit amongst the debris of our relationship wondering what on earth has happened. You can easily be forgiven for seeking refuge from the misery amongst those golden thoughts. It is the obvious thing to do to try and take away the searing pain which now burns you. Naturally, this is all something which I planned and is a natural consequence of becoming entangled with me. Do not feel any shame in the fact that you keep running to those thoughts and taking hold of them as you seek to ease your agony. Keep doing it. All the others did and all the others will.
As you walk through those wonderful thoughts and memories, replaying our time together like an incessant loop of our “best of” moments do you recall what else you did during this seduction? Can you remember something else that was happening as we created these scintillating memories? Yes, I know you can remember, how could you forget? It was one of the many things that I did for you which drew you closer to me and made you fall oh so deeply in love with the illusion. What was it that I did? I made you feel safe. I created that sanctuary and opened the door and ushered you in. I showed you how this gleaming and beautiful paradise was impregnable to the wretched and woeful world beyond. I assured you that being in here with me meant that you need never worry about those things again. I would keep the wailing tormentors from your door and ensure that those things did not trouble you anymore. That was the sole condition for entry into this haven that I had constructed for you. Tell me about those things so I can shield you from them. You had never had someone make such a sacrifice for you before. The way we understood how badly those things affected you. We really seemed to grasp the impact that those things had had upon you as we listened with patience and comprehension. You were hesitant at first, the mere act of recollection being one that caused you consternation. You had no issue in confiding in us, no that was not the issue. We had banished any concerns you may have had about trusting us with these secrets within moments, such was our assured charm. No, what troubled you was bringing those dark memories, those fragile foibles to the surface once again. Yet as the words came from your mouth and the tears trickled down your cheeks you felt the cathartic effect of off-loading all of those things to us. From the minor concerns through to the deep-seated and life changing troubles you conveyed each and every one to us and it felt wonderful to do so. The burden came away from you and for the first time ever you felt freedom from those things as you passed the baton onto us and we readily took it from you. You exorcised those ghosts and stepped into our sanctuary elated and delighted to have been able to purge those things from yourself and embrace a new start with us. For too long those things had held you back. For too long you had walked a rocky road alone, stooped and bent double under the weight of your concerns. There had been others but you did not feel able to share the load as you did with me. I was different. There was something about me which made you feel like you could tell me anything and everything and I would deal with it. I would flex those angelic wings and extend them to surround and protect you. Unburdened by those things you walked taller, felt stronger and you had me to thank for this process. Your gratitude and admiration flowed incessantly and I was only too happy to wash myself in this fountain of praise although in keeping with the personae I had created I accepted your compliments with humble acknowledgement. You entered my sanctuary and told me all your weaknesses.
This was achieved in such a way that you felt no shame in telling me them. That was another difference. You knew I would not judge you for them. You knew I would not regard you as silly or stupid for having certain concerns.
“It is how you regard them that matters, not how everyone else views them.”
You remember that sentence and how you seized it with great gladness, thankful that at last somebody understood and recognised how to deal with your concerns. Your confidence in me was absolute and I even made it seem as if I actually liked your weaknesses and that gave you great comfort.
All I was doing as you sat there on those many occasions where you shared your concerns, your vulnerabilities and weaknesses with me (for they did not all come out in one session, no, it took weeks of careful extraction on many different occasions to amass them all) was stockpiling my armoury. Your admission that you cannot swim and thus are terrified of deep water was moulded into a missile. Your explanation that you were bullied at school because you had short hair arising from having to have it shorn because your brother poured glue over your head one time became a hand grenade. The fact you suffer a noticeable red flush across your chest and neck when you feel agitated created a bullet. Your confession that you suffer excessive wind formed another bullet. The abuse you suffered at the hands of a family member when you were eight became a thermonuclear device ready to detonate at a later date. Each and every weakness, from your inability to resist eating a packet of biscuits in one sitting through to your fear of public speaking was noted, recorded and fashioned into a weapon. You thought you were safe in the sanctuary. That was just an illusion. You were actually sat in my armoury and I was there with you creating these weapons to use against you at a later date. Each weakness you admitted to me you thought you were handing to me for me to carry on your behalf. The reality was you were giving me the material from which I could create a weapon – be it a sharp stick with which to prod you or a nuclear missile to obliterate you. You thought it was some form of absolution but all you were doing was arming me.
I always want to know about your weaknesses. Your weaknesses become forged into my strengths in readiness for the war of devaluation that I shall wage against you. Keep talking, there is an arsenal to be created.
75 thoughts on “Vulnerable”
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Until I reach the other side I’m here. …And I despise myself for feeling this way.
I couldn’t read all the way through. I fucking hate you and your kind.
I read as much of this information to hopefully change my behaviour enough that my light is dampened to future narcissists.
I’ve had a lifetime of narcissists. If the paranoia ever disappears i would be ever so lucky.
The very idea that when someone needs you (in general) is when you turn on them.
All I’ve ever wanted is to be loved. And how I continue to end up at the waterless well each time astounds me.
I can put this shit out if my mind until you bring it up in your writing.
While most of the time I am very grateful…today I am hateful.
I wish he were dead…and if I had written a letter to the narcissist I would’ve bloody well said so.
An_eternal_student
Your hate is beautiful. Use it to protect yourself; that is how I survived my childhood with two violent narcissistic lesser parents.
@K
I’m uncertain how hate will see me through or protect me.
Thank you for your comment. ☺
An_eternal_student
Hate and anger can sometimes compel an individual to change a situation that isn’t healthy. My hatred and anger protected and forced me to leave my MMRN. Hate is both a weapon and a shield.
K…….thank you for the compliment, you made me smile…….the topic of the sanctuary and the abyss interests me…….I have a dark mind. I have to point out that I wasn’t so smart before I arrived here…….anything that I have ascertained has been gleaned from HG…….so if you don’t mind…..I will pass on that compliment to him, with thanks to both of you…….Diva
Was chatting with a man online for awhile. One day he started asking me if I ever had problems with my father. I said no, so then he began to question me about any traumas that I experienced as a teenager that may affect me now. He said he would help me work through any trauma.
His questions raised red flags, and I stopped talking to him. I felt as if he was a predator and could be dangerous.Didn’t trust him at all.
Do you think he was an unskilled Sociopath, HG? Seems odd he was asking these questions so bluntly and openly.
He was either doing a survey or he is an unrefined narcissist mining for information.
“You entered my sanctuary and told me all your weaknesses.”……..it may have looked like a sanctuary, smelled like a sanctuary and felt like a sanctuary…. but what we entered was your abyss. The sanctuary is simply a mirage, an optical illusion…….it was not created and it was not deconstructed, as it did not truly exist…….your abyss was all that was ever there……….Diva
Diva, you are one smart cookie! K
“Never ever tell them everything. They will use it against you.”
Tony Morrison
I shared fake ones to test my ex. He failed me. I never told him anything too personal or deep ever again.
Very naughty picture Harley! 😉
Are you a fan of the movie or Sharon Stone’s character in particular?
ABW 😁
We all have a naughty side lol….
Both – I love her character.
True !
Re: ‘ I love her character ‘ –
Did your men allow you to be on top during sex Harleen? 😅
Catherine Tramell would be ideal match for Hannibal Lecter.
Would she kill him with an ice pick or would he have her liver..?
ABW,
There are some men that have met Catherine. Others have glimpses of her – but she is always there. She only makes her appearances when she wants sex lol.
ABW,
Only the psychopaths have been able to meet her.
Great article Mr. Tudor.
It makes me think about my ex boyfriend. I wanna sum up my story, maybe someone will relate it and it can be helpful.
My ex boyfriend was admire to my ability to spend time alone, he says that i am independent etc. And during our relationship, i opened up myself, and explain that my loner attitude is coming from security issues. He dig and dig about it deeper, but he did it in a nice way. But when he breaking up with me, he told me that i dont even have real friends (i have by the way, i just did not invite everyone my world) no one know the real me. He says he is able to maintain relationships with other people (including a lover) but i was a failure. He says that he had a long term relationship before, and i could only make it six month (yes had a two year girlfriend but he cheat on her many times) actually, i madly love him, but i was thinking about giving a break, he sense it i think and thats why he broke up with me in a sudden and brutal way. while leaving, he was only messing with my insecurities. He tell all of our mutual friends how he was unhappy (he was one of my best friend for three years before our relationship so we were in same friend circle) how i was distant, how he was lonely. He even mention my parents attitude maybe make me so insecure and distant (maybe i was, but it was not something to tell our mutual friends) I was in love with him, i couldnt hold a grunge, and break up was hard him too. I always saw him unreasonably fragile, and i found his attitude more childish than evil-manipulative etc. we got back three month later. He came to me with a just a cool “hi” and i knew it was beginning again. But i was feeling so powerful, because that terrible break up makes me stronger somehow, and it didn’t scare me. I still had feelings for him. I was more like “yes i know who is he, but i still love him, and i live only once” In first month, it was amazing, we were together all the time, have amazing fun. But one day, when things got smooth, i saw that dead look in his eye. And that grumpy attitude toward me. That distance with no explanation. Something inside hold me back. And i step back. It was hard, i decide to go another city for summer, he didnt want me to leave, but i know that it was temporary feeling for him, if i stay upon his word, i knew that things wont change. We both cried last night together. I still recovering from our amazing one month (i choose to live it by giving another try, but i really wanted it, i didnt care about he is a narcissist or what) he find girlfriend in three week, got official superfast, and right now posting pictures with her, went to a vacation with her etc. I know we are both feel bad. If you think that you are powerful to get close, i’m sure you are. But in the end, everyone is losing something. Your power hurt him. Hurting him hurt you inside. It is so hard to accept. He tell everyone that he was triying to get away from me (that was not true. He insist that we could work it), he delete me from all of his social media accounts ( not from whatsapp of somehow, but i didn’t even text him once for last three month) we will see each other eventually because we share best friend. He knows that i started to date other people. We seem to move on. It is so hard to forget that intense bond. Walking away from it was the hardest thing i have ever done. But when you move away from it, it looks more like a child game, a mean one. Funny thing is, he was a shy and angel-like boy in the childhood, and i was a very tomboyish girl. I still wanna grab him from his shoulders and shake “why the hell are you so fragile?”
WOW, HG, you did it again! I remember being hit with these grenades wondering WTF? Who does that to someone they supposedly love??? uh… a narc… this has led to great mistrust. Today I feel like everyone’s a narc and they’ll have to prove otherwise… on the other hand, I’ve been doing the very painful work of addressing the initial annihilating wounding and I’m thinking (and hoping) that in the future these will no longer be my vulnerabilities to be targeted.
HG, if the vulnerability is not present, will that be a narc deterrent?
Thanks,
Peaceful.
“Keep talking, there is an arsenal to be created.”
Every time I hear someone say “Please tell me all about it, I won’t tell anyone” or “You are safe here” or those who are too eager to know something about me which is none of their business, I take it as a warning sign.
Trustworthy people do not feel the need to tell you that you are safe with them or that they won’t tell anyone.
Fair observations.
Hello E.B.
I totally agree with you adding that trustworthy people respect one’s boundries..i.ex. When one says “no” it is a “no”…
Hi Superxena! 🙂
Nice to see you again!! 🙂 I hope you are doing well.
Yes, healthy people do not take it personally when we do not want to give them some piece of information. Some passive-aggressive narcissists will say nothing as if they understood and accepted your boundaries and you will think everything is ok. Actually, they took it personally, felt criticized and will find a way to take revenge next time you ask them a non-intrusive question or need their help. It is not possible to build healthy relationships and be yourself with passive-aggressive people. They behave like children who have not grown out of puberty.
Hello E.B!
Thank you for your kind comment! I am fine thanks, just need to make some short recesses from the blog from time to time to catch my breath.
I hope you are fine as well!
Agreed: no healthy relationship with passive-agressivness. I personally think that it is a very coward way to tackle a situation( or better said to not tackle a situation). I was submitted some times to this manipulation being punished of a ” criticism” me not even knowing what it was.
He used though more frequently other types of strategies like gas-lighting,intimidation and withdrawal ( give too much of something i.ex. presents sometimes and then not doing it..give and take..back and forth)…
Sent from my iPad
Hello E.B!
Thank you for your kind comment! I am fine thanks, just need to make some short recesses from the blog from time to time to catch my breath.
I hope you are fine as well!
Agreed: no healthy relationship with passive-agressivness. I personally think that it is a very coward way to tackle a situation( or better said to not tackle a situation). I was submitted some times to this manipulation being punished of a ” criticism” me not even knowing what it was.
He used though more frequently other types of strategies like gas-lighting,intimidation and withdrawal ( give too much of something i.ex. presents sometimes and then not doing it..give and take..back and forth)…
Hi SuperXena,
Glad to know you are well. Thank you very much for your replies. My apologies that last time you wrote I was going through a difficult personal situation, apart from other technical problems, and I did not have the time or energy to write to you as I wished.
“I personally think that it is a very coward way to tackle a situation( or better said to not tackle a situation). I was submitted some times to this manipulation being punished of a ” criticism” me not even knowing what it was.”
Exactly, we are dealing with grown-ups and not with a 12-year-old, who might not be able how to tell the difference between a neutral comment and criticism. This happens to me with passive-aggressive women quite often. They will not tell me what triggered them but then they will go to others and complain about me or make me look bad, instead of talking to me directly. The most spiteful ones will also complain about things that I did not say or never happened. So other people will come to me to tell me off (they treat me as a child or if I were beneath them) for something which has nothing to do with the *interaction* I had with the narcissist(!). Many times there was no interaction at all. Like you, I never get to know what I said or did which triggered the passive-aggressive individual.
I would like to know what non-targets say or do to remain out of the narcissist’s radar. Although I admit that my social skills are not so good (I am reading about introverts to improve those skills), it is not my intention to hurt someone. I am also open to talk about it so the problem could be solved within a few minutes.
Passive-aggressive people seem to feel more comfortable holding a grudge against me, not wanting to talk about it and playing the victim role than dealing with conflict. This is one of the reasons why I feel more comfortable with men than with women. To clarify, I do not think that men are better than women. Narcissists and other passive-aggressive individuals seem to compete with those of the same gender. I have observed that men treat women more respectfully than they treat other men and PA women can be nice to men but vicious to other women.
Hello E.B.!
No need to apologise. Thank you for your answers. I will expand more on a coming comment but I want to comment now something you wrote that caught my attention:
” I would like to know what non-targets say or do to remain out of the narcissist’s radar.” What do you mean?
I think that the narcissist spots you due to your empathic traits and he/she is the one that draws you to his /her radar. It is not you the one that enters free willing to their radar. What I mean is that your empathic traits can’t be concealed because you are who you are. The key is detecting them and resist to be drawn: in other words: once you detect a single red flag just…..run!
I hope you are feeling fine.
Sent from my iPad
E.B.
I forgot to say before I go to work( running late) as for what to do or say if you detect a narcissist..if you have to interacte with him/her ( i.ex.) work related I think the best is to act with three key elements( that I have learned here):
A)With self respect ( showing more respecto for myself)
B) not being so naive
C) being stronger and clearer when establishing my boundaries..
Catch up with you later! Have a fine day!!
Hi SuperXena,
Hope you were not late for work because of me. I appreciate your help very much. It is very kind of you. 🙂
You understood my comment correctly. It is not about intimate relationships. Narcissists are everywhere and we cannot always choose the people around us. Cutting off contact or running away from them is what I have been doing until now, whenever possible. Another thing to consider is that this is not just about one narcissist only. When they smear you and use their character assassination tactic, you have a whole group of people against you. All of a sudden, they will not answer your calls or emails anymore and they will give you the ST. You are ostracized and you do not know why. These Mid-Range narcissists I am talking about are not ‘benign’ like Malcolm. Moving back to a larger city and starting from scratch is not a viable option at the moment.
Your points are helpful, Superxena. Some of the things I want to improve are A) and C). I would like to explain that I do not always have interactions with the narcissist who targets me. I do not know who this individual is until a group of people start putting me down or shunning me. If I try to speak to one or more people in the group, they get angry or lash out at me. They also interrupt me as soon as I start talking and do not let me speak at all. Attacking someone and not letting her speak is a form of abuse. Others give me the ST. So this is when I realize that a someone must have smeared me but who is she and why? This individual is usually, but not always, someone I have not met before. These kinds of narcissists always hide in the background! Sometimes I can spot her by watching her body language or her expression on her face without having to interact with her. Other times it takes me years to know who she might be if there are other narcissists too. Unless people have experienced something similar, this dynamic is difficult to understand. Most readers deal with one narcissist, who is usually their IP and when they leave him, they lead a narcissist free life. This is not my case. Unfortunately, people like me (usually scapegoats in their families) rarely speak up. We know that nobody will believe us, that people are convinced we are the abusers or that they believe there must be something wrong with us (crazy, paranoid).
Thank you for reading, SuperXena. I hope you had a good day too!
Hello E.B.!
Thank you for your concern. No,I was not late for work. Actually I do not like to be late and I find it very irritating when people are late.
90-95% of my job is meetings..so I just have to respect the scheduled times!
-“I would like to explain that I do not always have interactions with the narcissist who targets me. I do not know who this individual is until a group of people start putting me down or shunning me. If I try to speak to one or more people in the group, they get angry or lash out at me. They also interrupt me as soon as I start talking and do not let me speak at all. Attacking someone and not letting her speak is a form of abuse. Others give me the ST. ”
Are you speaking about your work environment or in general? Is that the way you had realised you were dealing with narcissists? Perhaps now, with the tools acquired here can you spot them in a different way? Without being submitted to that treatment?
Yes, they are everywhere. I have to do as well with them at work .My experience as the primary intimate partner of a narcissist felt more difficult due to the proximity with him. At least the interaction with the narcissists at work are limited just there.
I have been studying people around me specially at my work place which is actually dominated by somatic narcissists and/or people with very strong narcissistic (somatic mainly) traits. It feels good to be able to recognise their behaviour and knowing what to do or not to do. I have been in the middle of some “battle ” for winning admiration between two (men) of my collegues…mid-rangers somatic..and believe me they are vicious against each other..
I am not sure about passive-aggressive individuals and narcissists being more competitive with those of the same gender..I think they do not really make difference if the person that threatens them is of the same gender..if they jeopardise their aims they are dealt with exactly the same way.
I hope you have also had a good day today and I really hope to hear from you soon..
Sent from my iPad
Hi SuperXena,
Hope you are doing fine. I am sorry (again!) for my late reply. I feel overwhelmed when I have to explain what is happening to me because I can understand that most people do not know what it is like. I felt frustrated to see that some people reading this blog with enough knowledge and understanding about narcissism were not able to tell who the narcissist in the article The Classroom Narcissist was. What can I expect from others who do not even know the N word? Sometimes I feel helpless.
Re: ‘Are you speaking about your work environment or in general?’
Partly yes. Any environment I have been for more than a week and there is at least one narcissistic woman in it (a work environment is one of them). Most of those who targeted me did not have any kind of interaction with me before. They belong to the group but I may or may not have met them before. I notice there is something wrong going on when people in a group start ignoring me, not saying hello, not speaking to me anymore or they lash out at me for no apparent reason after they had been very nice to me before and they had even praised me for some trait or something I had done. We cannot control other people. We can only control ourselves. Leaving the group, when possible, is what I usually do but we are social beings and have to share our life with other people in one way or another. There are environments where I would feel safer than others but I cannot afford them anymore.
You spoke about those two men who were vicious against each other. Did any of them have to leave his job? Has his professional life been ruined by the other narcissist? From my own experience, there is a difference between narcissistic men and women. Women try to manipulate the victim’s relationships and isolate her. The victim is shunned and ostracised by the whole group.
Hello E.B.
Nice to hear from you and thank you for your answer! I am fine.
-I perfectly understand what you say about the post The Classroom Narcissist.It was very provocative. I got frustrated and irritated as well mainly because the comments suddenly changed direction to a completely different one. By the way you made an excellent analysis of the post! You detected the narcissistic traits and made an excellent analysis of them . Well done.
– I feel of what you write that you are moving within a very hostile environment now? Why is it? What do you mean by:
” There are environments where I would feel safer than others but I cannot afford them anymore.”
Why can’t you afford them anymore?
– The two somatic narcissists ( men) at my workplace: One is a senior the other is a junior. The senior is feeling very threatened by the junior who has just started working with us for about a year ago. He ( the junior) is extremely charming, charismatic, well looking and successful among our customers. It will be interesting to see if the Senior does as he has done with almost all the successful juniors ( men or women) that have come and threaten him instead of allying to him: he has forced two of them ( a man and a women) to quite. So yes, the Senior does not accept any other person shining around.
Surprisingly ,I have worked well with this Senior throughout these years…I think he is not stupid and knows who he shouldn’t mess with: me . Fortunately,I have a strong position within the company I work for.
This junior is very strong ( mentally) and calculating so let’s see what happens.
– Are you speaking about narcissists or people with narcissistic traits? As I have seen, the narcissist does not discriminate if it is a man or a women. Women /men narcissists apply the same methodology against men or women. I think it all depends on which are the vulnerable spots they detect on the victim and not if it is a man or a women. Men and women have all different vulnerabilities .
Good to interact with you !I wish you a fine Saturday !
Sent from my iPad
*Adding ( definetely running late for work!)
B) not being naive i.ex not giving them the benefit of the doubt*
E.B.
…I want to add as well regarding criticism ,something that I understand now knowing how they operate is that I could tell him exactly the same thing i.ex. ” I could not answer your call”
a) delivering the message with loving concern=positive fuel
b) same message with anger=negative fuel
c) same message with no emotion= huge criticism
I will never forget something that he told me ( that I did not understand what he meant then,but now I do ) : ” the problem is not what you say but how you say it”: the form of delivery of the fuel…
SuperXena,
re “the problem is not what you say but how you say it”
This is true, although he is blaming you for not knowing how to avoid triggering him. We are supposed to walk on eggshells, read their minds and know ALL their triggers. It is supposed to be our fault that we are not clairvoyant.
This reminds me of a relative of mine, who knew how to deal with narcissists and told me something similar. She even knew how to manipulate them. Several years ago she help me deal with a particular situation. I did not know anything about narcissism at that time and she never mentioned the N word either but she seemed to know a lot about it. It did not work the first time I did what she suggested. She said: “It is not what you do but HOW you do it!”. I have also applied what she taught me in the past years in a different country with success. Unfortunately, my relative lived abroad and passed away so I was not able to ask her for help in other situations like dealing with sadistic, vindictive, malignant narcissists, who are different from the non-vindictive ones.
Success relies on HOW narcissists apply their manipulations and HOW we deal with them.
Hello SuperXena,
I want to say nice to see you commenting again too😊
I always respect your insightful analyzes on Mr Tudors posts.
Hello Sunniva!
Thank you for your kind comment. I really appreciate it.. Sometimes I need short recesses but I am glad to be back again. I hope you are fine!
I am fine thank you, SuperXena😊
Recesses are absolutely necessesary from time to time👌🏻
See you on the blog👍🏻
Hello Sunniva!
Good to hear from you as well! I have some questions for you…if you feel like sharing.
How long have you been participating on the blog? Which of HG’s article(s) have you found more helpful? Which of HG’s books have you found most valuable in terms of the knowledge they convey? Which are the main concepts concerning NPD you find here( articles and books) as unique and revolutionary that you haven’t found somewhere else?
Hope to hear from you soon!
Hi SuperXena,
Thank you for taking an interest 🙂
I have been reading and participating on this blog since the beginning of July 2017, and during the first couple of weeks I think I read through every blog posts, and two of his books 🙂
I had finally found a valid source to my many questions about NPD.
Since I have never been an IPPS to a Narcissist I started with Sitting Target, and I learned my place in the fuel-matrix.
Through Norwegian web-sites I had learned that I was “a transfer-object” to my N, but after reading Sitting Target I found my self as a close NIPSS.
The next book I read was Fuel. Really helpful in gathering information around the mind-set of a Narcissit, and all of their perspectives in the interaction with and around other people.
My favorite articles are the ones with a scientific tone of wording. I am a Company CEO, so I perfer it when things are strait foreward and down to business (but I still like to think that I am not boring at all hehe).
Mr Tudors most educative posts to me are those which describe the mind-set of the narcissist in different contexts, but not written through a fairytale perspective.
That being said, I find it necessary to add that I enjoy reading all of Mr Tudors posts:)
I see now, that I have a lot of narcissists in various settings of my everyday life. Mr Tudor has taught me three life-saving aspects in this regard:
1) They are not intimidating and they cannot hurt me if I don’t let them.
2) I have a much better understanding of why they are drawn to me.
3) I have learned how to forgive a person who wasn’t even sorry, and that makes me feel seriously strong:)
I would like to read your thoughts on the same questions:)
Hello sunniva!
Ha,ha..I somehow knew you were throwing the ball back to me! Fair enough.
Thank you for taking the time to answer my requests . I almost always answer using a list form so..
1. I have been participating here since January 2015( more or less)
2. My favourite books and articles depend on the writing style and on the information they provide:
a. Writing style. I love poetry ( being this kind of dark poetry) so my absolute favourite is still “The Haunted Chamber”
https://narcsite.com/2017/01/23/the-haunted-chamber-2/
Being followed by “I Want”
https://narcsite.com/2017/07/20/i-want-5/
I find the writing style of both very appealing. I was the IPPS of a Greater for 6 long years..so every time I feel like having a back slag I read both of them.
b.Unique knowledge. I call this HG’s ” trade mark”. All the articles and books that describe the different schools of narcissists and empaths. This classification is not found anywhere else. I had ( as you did) read many,many books and sites before(in my case Swedish sites among others) not finding the answers I was looking for. I always found articles about the narcissist and the co-dependant. But being a co-dependant never resonated with me. Now I understand that the narcissist creates a state of co-dependancy by manipulation that does not necessarily mean that the person he entangles with is a co-dependant. These classifications are extremely useful in understanding this dynamic and unique. I might call them revolutionary.
The book Fuel where the fuel matrix is explained.
c. Helpful in my journey of escaping my ex:
Favourite books: Exorcism,Fuel,Fury,Revenge,No Contact,Manipulated
Favourite articles:many but extremely helpful: the articles of the three battles.
d. Reinforcing : most of the articles but specially the book Red Flags
Well..I could continue writing ..the list would be very long..but these books and articles have been my main ,basic tools …
I am sure there will be more books and articles coming that will change “my list”.
What do you mean by “a transfer object”?
I like your three life-saving aspects! Sure it feels good having this tool kit with you through life!
The three key elements I take with me from the knowledge acquired here are: self-respect, less naive, establishing stronger boundaries and a more cold hearted and less emotional mind set.
Good to exchange ideas and experiences with you!
Hello Superxena
Glad to see you back!
Haunted Chamber has been my favorite sense the first time I read it, then when I heard a recorded version of it…..
I do need to apologise for not getting back with you on my question dealing with the Contagion.
Life became a bit chaotic.
I am still waiting for the article and HGs views….
I have had some mixed emotions on this….
I am glad to see you are well.
Hello Twilight!
No need to apologise! I am afraid I lost the thread about emotional contagion …as I recall is HG going to write an article expanding on this concept?
Best wishes
By the way Twilight, now that I am catching up with the blog: I have not seen any comments by Clarece, Love,Indy( a few)? I always considered them as part of the high caliber empath group participating here ( as you are as well,of course) Perhaps they need recess as well from time to time..as I do..
* Ups! Correction: I have been participating here on this blog since January 2017( not 2015) *
Hello sunnivan,
I did not receive any e-mail notification of you latest answer so I kind of missed it!
Yes, we are fellows Scandinavian 😉 although I am a mixture with more Southern blood as well! So Huntington’s thesis of the world becoming a smaller place makes sense. I guess I am contributing to the increasing interactions across the world . The question is which “civilization consciousness” I identify with …
Oh yes, I can imagine your encounter with your ex-Greater…Which small Norwegian town are you from? Quite a contrast with Berlin!!
He really knew how to seduce you! By the way you describe him..I assume he is older than you?
And now the big question: why do you still have contact with( your ex greater) him? Are you afraid of really breaking up the contact with him?
What are your ideas of still continuing getting entangled with narcissists? Three over the past five years! That sounds like a nightmare! Any ideas on how to break that pattern?
I have “only” had a romantic relationship with a narcissist ( a Greater for six years). Before that I was married to a normal/empath for many,many years with whom I have two lovely sons. The break up was with no complication and we still have contact with each other . He is a good father to my sons.
I met my ex narcissist two years after my divorce. I have my own theories why I got entangled romantically for the first time with a narcissist. It kind of puzzles me since I can say that neither my father or my mother were narcissists, very competitive yes but lovely parents. Most of the stories I have read here describe several ( or at least more than one) entanglements with narcissists.
Although I have worked many years in a field that is dominated by (somatic) narcissists and /or persons with strong (somatic) narcissistic traits. I get along very well with them( surprisingly) but of course I do not let them close enough: just professional interactions.
I understand that the description of transfer object did not take you far .I think it was just a ‘poor’ attempt of describing HG’s concept of fuel matrix .
Yes, I do understand perfectly about being very hard to read a Greater. My ex Greater always changed the rules of his game…always one step ahead! Their cognitive functioning is high..it was like playing a chess game with him all the time…mind games.. Their favourite game. I have just been entangled with a Greater so I cannot refer to differences with other schools. Interesting that you can compare different schools now but at the same time unpleasant to go through these encounters.
I hope you can leave your ULN behind now! Which comparative analysis have you made and which similarities you found with HG’s concepts?
As I always say: you are not attracted to them..they draw you to them.And by the way you write you are far from being a nerd! I am sure that both you and I have had normal men around that do not seduce as the narcissist..so they are unnoticed..but hopefully not any more. We know better now! Don’t we?
Good to interact with you as always..
SuperXena, a fellow Scandinavian😃
I should have known👌🏻
Samuel P. Huntingtons book: ‘Clash of Civilizations’ makes even more sence to me after this☺️
Anyway…
Picture this:
a tall, blond, blue-eyed, sportive, and NAIVE girl left her small Norwegian home town and moved to Berlin to study abroad. After three weeks she meet the most hansom man she had ever seen….
I didn’t realize that he was/is a Greater until I started reading Mr Tudors blog and books. We were together for almost a year. He was filthy rich, bought me alot of gifts, he organized my eating habbits and exercises, and had me ready in his carefully picked outfits to all the events he dragged me to. In a way I didn’t mind. I was young and the world was up for grabs, and it was all fun and games, until it wasn’t. When I broke it off he killed me with his eyes, but after 6 months he was back….
He still visits me twice a year, and I am dreading his reaction when I tell him that he can’t visit me anymore.
But the reason I am in here reading is my ULN. I have had three close ones over the last five years😱 I have never understood why they are attracted to me. On so many levels I am such a nerd☺️
The ULN and the Greater have many traits in common, but the Greater is so much harder to read, and their cognitive level is unique, and can never be found in the mind-set of an ULN.
I have actually drawn a comparative analyzes on my thoughts around my interactions with my ULN before I started reading Mr Tudors material, and what I can read out of our interactions today:)
A transfer-object is the emergency fuel the narcissist seek out after a break-up. But with this description I never understood why he kept coming back.
Thanks to Mr Tudor I have a much better understanding of it:)
It’s been good exchanging thought with you SuperXena:)
I wish you a beautiful Saturday😃👌🏻
Tjena SX😊
It is easy to read that you are the best of both worlds. Still, your words are soberly written. To me that is very Scandinavian, and familiar.
I am from a smaller city in the south of Norway. My name is not Sunniva, but I still don’t feel like sharing exact geographic. I even had my picture up on the blog for about 2 days, but the bold feeling slipped as I was commenting on posts and saw my face on the wall.
Yes, my ex-Greater is older than me, but not sugar-daddy older. I was an IPSS to him for a year, and since his circles are of a public character, I was the perfect trophy girlfriend. I have always played football and competed as a cross-country skier, so for me to follow his diet and exercise-routines was not an effort, and we had fun working out and competing together. We also shared the political scientific field of interest, and we could both laugh hard watching ‘Little Miss Sunshine’ and ‘The Big Lebowski’ among others. Suddenly he disappeared for three weeks. When he came back knocking I didn’t answer. I gave all his gifts away. I gave my Oscar de la Renta dress to a Bolivian exchange student. Oh, the look on her face, priceless😊 and when he showed up at my goodbye party, imagine his face when he saw her in “his” dress😊 If eyes could kill…
Just like you I have loving parents, so no pattern there to why narcissists are drawn to me. Just like you all my narcissists have been somatic, or at least the ones I have spotted. My theory is the commercial side of me. I am a company CEO, I travel Norway to give presentations, I gather in social settings where somatic narcissists are to be found, and I compete in sports. I found myself in the Magnet Empath description. Which one are you?
I think they are attracted to the commercial me, but when they get to mirror me a bit better, they find the scientific nerd. I like her😊 but imagine discussing kinetic fusion theory with a somatic ULN😊 My ULN is the only one of them that came close (but if I had stayed in Berlin the Greater would be a different story)!!
My ULN’s daughter has bonded strongly with me, and I am not sure how to handle it correctly. Any good advice?
I love to read that you are a mom. A wise and caring mom😊 and I am glad to read that it is with a normal man! What is your theory of why you entangled with a Greater? I would like to read some examples, some sort of Hares check-list, if you like.
I have never been an IPPS to a narcissist, so none of them have damaged me more then to a certain extent. I choose to look at it from the perspective of gaining knowledge about narcissistic, manipulative behavior.
My comparative analyzes are now 49 pages long, but let me give you an example:
When I first met him, I didn’t like him. He was a stayer, and after 6 months we had our first date. After three weeks he stopped contacting me, and I just assumed he wasn’t that in to me. He came back after two months, and after that the contact was sporadic. By the way he was treating me I always felt that he liked me the least, and I never understood why he kept coming back. I assumed that he liked me, but that he felt a bit intimidated by me (we have had a very unhealthy sociopathic pattern going on ever since, but that is a longer story).
After reading Mr. Tudors material I have learned:
1. I was in the try-out as an IPSS together with at least two others.
2. I didn’t react in the addictive pattern that the others did, so I
wasn’t IPSS material.
3. He kept me as an NIPSS for triangulation, facade, and as his
“moral high ground”.
4. When he felt down I gave him the fuel he needed, but at the
same time I was always strait forward, so the contact lasted for
about a week every time, because I always offended him and
criticized him (from my perspective itI was not criticism, of
course).
I have many examples and the story could go on and on, but let’s stop here.
Because Yes!! We know better now😊
Tjenare sunnivan!
Thank you for your compliments…I feel really flattered. I do recognise the Scandinavian fellowship by the way you write.
Thank you for sharing..I do understand that you do not want to write some things about you here. I am very cautious as well. I do not feel comfortable either putting my profile picture..why should I? There is no point on doing it considering the nature of this site.
So I fully understand you.
1. Your ex-Greater. Seems to me that you as an IPSS you were perhaps a candidate for being an IPPS. He certainly saw in you many character traits he needed for status and facade.: you are well educated, successful ,competitive and with an extensive social and professional network. All attractive traits for a Greater..plus your empathic traits that are clearly shown by the way you write.
I can see his face when he saw the dress on someone else.
Bra gjort! Där fick han!
You are right, being an IPPS of a Greater is far more damaging due to the proximity. Greaters are as well more pruned to be sociopathic and calculating. This I could experience as an IPPS of a Greater. I could write a novel here about my journey with him but to make it short: I escaped him after 6 years attending regularly couple therapies. When I left him I was exhausted but this same exhaustion was like a buster to move on. And then came an incredible feeling of RELIEF.
2. According to HG ‘s description of the empath group I am a Super
Empath ( feels funny to call myself that,since I do not want to be placed in a box..but well..this is the language used here so..)
I am not sure if I am a Magnet empath..I should ask HG that on our next audio consult.
3. Is the ULN your present narcissist? Do you want to continue with him? Right? Are you his IPSS? How old is his daughter? If you want to cut all relationship with him,I am afraid you have to cut the contact with his daughter. Sad…kids should not pay the price of their parent’s mistakes. Specially if she feels a bond with you. Let me think if I have some good advice…but something I have learned here is that sometimes you have to be selfish. Do not waste your time talking about kinetic fusion theory with him! I am sure he does not have a clue!
Yes, I love my children!
4. Good to know that you do not come either from an environment of narcissist parents.
5. As for my theories:
A) My ex greater seduced me ” sakta men säkert”. He took his time for doing it, I didn’t really like him at the beginning…he worked me for a long time until he got me where he wanted me.
B) I had the traits he was looking for as to improve his status.Like a trophy. I move a lot within the Fitness branch and I have been competing as well. So as a somatic it was important to him me keeping me in shape. This branch is important to him. I assume that my extensive network was attractive for him. I totally agree with you:I was his moral compass as well!
C) I always confronted him..that is why we had big fights and that is why he stayed ( it was lovely negative fuel for him) until I escaped. He saw me always as a challenge. He had sociopathic traits as well.
D) I stayed because I was ignorant about the existence of this disturbing but at the same time fascinating personal disorder.And I was naive!
E) He created a state of co-dependency ( addiction) but since I am not a co-dependant I could work on this addiction( not an easy task though) breaking it. My addictive status was not as deep seated ( as others?) due perhaps to my narcissistic traits.
Here you have my ex greater’s score according to Hares checklist:
glib and superficial charm/yes
grandiose (exaggeratedly high) estimation of self/yes
need for stimulation/yes
pathological lying/yes
cunning and manipulativeness/ABSOLUTELY
lack of remorse or guilt/Yes
shallow affect (superficial emotional responsiveness)/Yes
callousness and lack of empathy/Yes
sexual promiscuity/ not really that I knew of course
early behavior problems/ do not know
lack of realistic long-term goals/yes
impulsivity/ not really very controlled
irresponsibility/?
failure to accept responsibility for own actions/yes
I can see similarities with your profile and mine!
It is just another example of how we are targeted depending on the school they belong to! And how accurate the information given by HG is!
Well, I have to stop here as well!!
And yes, we know better now..just ending with a phrase I like a lot:
“If you continue doing what you always have done, you will continue being what you always have been so…”
Good to “talk” to you!
Vi hörs här!
God morgen SX😊
Jeg begynner med det siste først…because that was too much of a coincident. The quote you stated is the last quote I have in my little blue book. I have had the book since I was 12, and I have written down appealing anecdotes, quotes and lyrics. On my last trip to Singapore is saw a movie with Samuel L. Jackson on the plane, and he quoted those words. It reminded me to write them down in my book.
You are a Magnet Super Empath😊 or at least that is what I read out of your contributions to this blog. But labeling it is not always necessary. I think you have a perfect sense of what you are and what you stand for without it.
My Berlin Greater is the only one that brought out my narcissistic traits to an ugly level. The ULN lacks the cognitive brilliance to do so. The Berlin Greater new just how to provoke me, and the spoken mind-games always ended in the bedroom. He is a very physical person, and that was his lethal weapon at the end of every confrontation. I read that you know what I mean…😊 BUT I do look forward to going back to Berlin without his leach to walk me around!!
Yes, my ULN is the last one. I know I must cut all bonds attached to him and his kids, but the kids-part is hard. I am a NIPSS in his fuel-matrix, but the only hold he still has on me is his kids. His daughter is a teenager, so we meet up without him. She comes with me to gatherings and other work-related networking, or she just hangs out at my house. If I speak directly to her, and he is not involved, it is not a problem.
I understand why you have consultations with Mr. Tudor. The text book escape right there😊
I have thought of it myself, and maybe I will, when I start calling him HG…
Tusen takk for alle tilbakemeldingen på mine poster og for at du har delt litt av historien din. Jeg lærer veldig mye av deg. Vi prates helt sikkert igjen under en annen post her på bloggen😊
Have a great week SuperXena!!
Halloj sunnivan!
1. You like quotes as well! That was a real coincidence and yes it comes from that movie. There are many quotes around this thoughts but I like this one since it is very easy formulated.
2. If you go back to Berlin : watch out for the Greater. Do not fall into temptations…
3. Sounds good that you are cutting all contact with your ULN. I hope his daughter finds a healthy adult figure to relay on. I have a 15 year old son and I know that in that age the presence of a supportive adult is crucial . She is lucky to have you. You are a warm hearted person! I hope you find the way to be supportive to her without having any contact with him!?
4. Yes, the audio consults with HG helped me to go over the fence. Now I am interested on learning more about NPD. I am always avid / eager of learning.
Do not hesitate in booking a consultation, specially if you are planning to keep the contact with your ULN’s daughter. HG will certainly lead you into the right direction.
I think you can still continue calling HG Mr.Tudor when booking /having an audio consult. I do not think HG will see any problem with that!
Tack så mycket själv! Det gläder mig att veta att mitt deltagande här har hjälpt dig. Tack för att du har läst mina svar och för att dela din resa och dina tankar med mig!
..And as a contribution to your “blue book of quotes”( imponerande att du har haft den sedan du var 12), here comes one I want to share with you that has helped me a lot:
“If you can’t fly, then run, if you can’t run then walk, if you can’t walk then crawl, but whatever you do you have to keep moving forward.”- Martin Luther King, Jr.
I had printed this quote everywhere during the last stages of my journey with my ex narcissist. I was exhausted but I knew that I had to leave him: it didn’t matter how ( flying,running,walking,crawling) but I had the firm determination of leaving him and moving forward,which I finally did..
See you around here and best wishes!!
SX😃
To end this section of interaction between us, I want to share one of my favorite quotes with you. Please, take it very personally, and remember:
“It is impossible to drown a rainbow”🌈
sunnivan! Perfect ending… thank you very much!
Making us feel safe. It’s such a wonderful feeling to feel like nothing else matters, that it’s all taken care of. My parents were never able to make me feel that way. The only people who ever have are Ns. Whether it be romantically, friendships, work colleagues whoever. For me this is one of the biggest black flags now.
And I won’t ever let anyone make me feel safe. As a child and teenager I’d dreamed of having that feeling more than anything else. i completely realise that it’s only me that can make myself feel safe.
But when fhey put their arm out in front of you, to protect you from the traffic as you cross the road or put their coat over your bag when you’re in a bar, speak with such clarity and help you clear through the mist of your emotions to help you make good rational decisions about things – I’ll allow it hahahah for a short time. But I won’t become entangled.
He used to hold my hand and ask me to tell him more abt myself.
First he told me anyone who’s been in a relationship w me is lucky. Later, he told me they r unlucky. (It was after i had showed hurt for his silence and his cancelling at the last minute.)
I would ask my GN if he missed me. He would say”With every Bullet”….then laugh hauntly.
Approaching target, bomb bay doors to open.
Target visualized, release payload.
(monogamy)
(loss of family)
(intelligence)
(desirability)
(abandonment)
Target destroyed, awaiting further orders…
My ex MMRN hated these words: old, fat, faggot, homo, fine and cunt. Also, he intensely disliked when I made fun of his appliances. So I used all of this against him during 2015. It was great and I enjoyed myself immensely. He kicked my ass for 4 years but I got a few good punches in during our last two years together.
So true …
HG, but you trust noone … but why, wouldn’t you have the ability to establish if someone is really trustworthy? What do you do when you want advice or talk about a bad situation?
Any advice I take is from paid professionals so if they get it wrong they can be sued. I do not seek advice in other spheres, I forge my own path.
Oh, it’s about your survival strategy as an independent individual, never dependent on a group of people/other people. I see.
HG, I’ve been wondering about something else … Why can’t you let anyone come too close / touch your inner sanctum – what exactly do you think would happen?? Which part is so inacceptable?
It happened once and was a terrible outcome, therefore we will admit nobody thereafter.
A terrible outcome for who……you….them….or both????? Maybe you don’t want to answer…..if not I understand……Diva
” It happened once and was a terrible outcome, therefore we will admit nobody thereafter.”
When did it happen and what was the outcome HG?
Some time ago. Me.
….” Some time ago. Me.”
1. Was it one of your primary intimate partners( IPPS)that was allowed? According to your fuel matrix due to their proximity and being the main source of fuel the one that comes closer to you?
2. How old were you when it happened?
3. As I understand of your answer it brought terrible consequences for you. How? What were those consequences for you?
“It happened once and was a terrible outcome, therefore we will admit nobody thereafter.”
This must have to do w little hg. My heart feels heavy reading this.
Oh, nooooo …. I understand.
HG
What if someone understood this, do you believe in time you may grant permission for this person to become close?
“You thought you were safe in the sanctuary. That was just an illusion.”
🙁
Me: “I feel so good here, home with you…”
Him:”Yes… the Safe Place…”
Hi HG,
DOes the narcissist always impose a golden period because I dint really think I got much of one although I did receive all the devaluation tactics.
Thanks
No Gareth, there can be a Bronze Period (please see the article ‘The Golden Period’ it gets mentioned there).
Thank you HG
Yes I told her I was neglected by my dad,at the time she took my word for it and empathised. Then a few years later she started trying to tell me it was all in my head, to start an argument.