Little Acons – No. 27

OH STOPPUTTINGIT ON

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40 thoughts on “Little Acons – No. 27”

  1. This is a definite example of the lack of empathy narcissists feel. I do wonder if a narcissists capcity for empathy is on a spectrum like their disorder bc some narcs do seem to possess a certain degree of empathy or in certain situations. Then there are those of a psychopath that have no empathy and are able to kill with no remorse.

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    1. narc affair

      Form my experience, mid-rangers are capable of cognitive empathy/ersatz empathy. Many of my lessers didn’t have the energy or cognition for a facade or fake empathy.

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      1. Hi k…. the cognitive or cold empathy i agree the midrangers and greaters possess when it affects them but i do wonder if its that black and white with narcissists and if some do have some level of empathy. I still have a hard time thinking a narcissist has zero empathy like we feel unless theyre higher up on the narc spectrum like a sociopath or psychopath.

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      2. narc affair
        From my personal experience with many, many narcissists they have zero empathy, zero love, zero kindness. It is all a facade, a show or for opportunistic reasons.

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      3. HG
        The irony here is that you probably have had more experience with TRUE empathy from your IPPSs and IPSSs than I have ever had, and I understand your definition of cognitive empathy v emotional empathy. There is a difference; I have lived it, I recognize it, I see it for what it is and I will never forget it.

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      4. narc affair
        When my narcissistic traits come to the fore, I have zero empathy, guilt or remorse and I can do anything I want. My default setting is empath, but my self defense mechanism can erase all empathy and guilt. Think Keyser Soze. If you don’t believe me, ask HG if he has empathy.

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    2. narc affair, they demonstrate empathy, when it fits their aims. It took me a long time to realise that. My mother showed sometimes empathy, sometimes not. I never knew, when I would get some help. Sometimes she exaggerated my pain, when I fell to the ground as a child and sometimes she ignored it or in other cases she reviled me for being weak…
      Now I found the reason for it! If other people were there and she wanted to be seen as a good mother, she showed empathy.
      If there was a birthday party and she liked it to be there then she reviled me for being weak and I should not exaggerate my pain… (Of course – no-one heard her comments to me)
      I was so confused about that for a long time, because I thought she would love me. She did not. She is not able to do that. To show empathy is only another means for them to get what they want.
      Look at their shown empathy, mostly you can find something artificial and strangely exaggerating in it.

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      1. Hi mona…ty for your insight. Ive read about cognitive or cold empathy before but i do wonder if its as cut and dry as a narcissist having zero empathy. I still have a hard time coming to grips with that.

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  2. Ah, yes. I remember being in a crisis unit severely depressed and suicidal, and she says “are you just doing this for attention?”

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  3. Possible 3rd sphere of influence/proxy hoover/information gathering: My MMRN asked my empath spy to go out for coffee this morning. WTF.

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  4. HG, I have to disagree a little bit. Cognitive empathy is shown, when you want to do something good to a special person, although you do not identify with this person and her/his pain. But you know it is painful and you react to their pain..You want to comfort them and mitigate their pain. You want the other person to feel good. The narc`s shown artificial empathy does not have anything to with the individual in front of them, it is only selfish. It is about them. They show it for their own selfish aims, to be seen as a good person, to be seen as a grandiose helper, to be seen as somebody who is empathic and so on. The motives/ reasons for that shown empathy are different.

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    1. I recognise to do something good for somebody because it will benefit me, it is not because I care about that person – that is cognitive empathy. I see someone exhibits a particular expression on their face, I establish they are in pain, I then ascertain this means they probably want some help. Whether I ignore them, make their pain worse or help them depends on whether it suits me -I have sufficient cognitive empathy to establish what is going on and what an appropriate response might be that would be regarded as beneficial to them, but my decision is based on what I need, not what they need – that is cognitive empathy. Feeling moved to assist somebody because they are hurt and need help, so you help them, that is emotional empathy which we do not have.

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      1. Then we disagree about the word “cognitive empathy”. What kind of expression would you suggest for my description of “cognitive empathy” ?

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  5. Sorry, I did not read your last sentence. I do not think, it is emotional empathy. That goes too far to describe it. It is less. Emotional empathy is some kind of identifying with the person. Emotional empathy is to feel the same like the person who is in need.

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    1. I agree emotional empathy is identifying with the person, having a commensurate and constructive feeling for that person (not always the same emotion). For example, your friend is happy, you feel happy for them too – same emotion. Your friend is in pain – you feel concern for them – different emotion, but it is a constructive one in terms of relating to them.

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      1. Totally out of context. Going to throw down my day. Went to court with my friend. She did not get her protection order granted. The guy was clearly abusive and demonstrated typical narc behavior. Still? Not enough. And she relied on good faith conquering evil. No, facts and evidence do. Pathetic. I was sick in court seeing playbook narcs. Not just on the bench:)

        Part 2. During court I got a phone call. One of the two counseloed from my dv group called to ask if I was appropriate for group. After a whole bunch of beating around the bush I asked her to sum up in one sentence what she wanted. The wanted me to quit coming to group. They hoped I would quit first. I was shamed, silenced, and asked not to come back. I said I am a victim of abuse, sexual assault and stayed at the shelter. I have been NC whole time. Last month I was suicidal one week end that I missed group, Never did they challenge me or try to help. They simply said do not come back. I am still in shock. I was always honest in group. Odd. Weird. Perplexed. Mystified. Stupefied. Shamed. Not ashamed though. Needed to vent. Than you whoever is reading. Been going last 6 mos since I left. Very troubling. Sad. Confused. Scrape goated. Gaslighted. IN DV GROUP.

        Yay 7mil.

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      2. Does DV stand for domestic violence? Tappan Zee, all I can say is it must have been a crummy group! I have been discouraged from returning to groups as well. They were all run by narcs though. Makes me wonder if your group may have been too. It’s amazing how many women’s groups are.

        Well you’re here and there are always those of us who are listening. I will certainly do my best to understand and give support to you and I’m sure many others will as well. I’m sure I speak for all in saying you are always welcome here! ❤️

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      3. Tappan zee,

        I’m really sorry to hear this. I wish the dv grp wud have been useful to u. Like windstorm stated, maybe it is run by narcs. I am glad u r here on hg’s blog. This is the better place to be, even tho it’s virtual. I remember when u first came onboard. U have shared alot with us since, including a letter to ur narc. U will find much support here. I am v sorry that ur friend did not get the protection order. The system fails so many times.

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      4. There are many of those places operated by our kind using a facade.

        You know what I am and I am clear about that.

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      5. Hi hg,

        U stated: “You know what I am and I am clear about that.”

        What does it mean? My comment was to tappan zee abt when she first came onboard. I remember she was contemplating whether or not to do so.

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      6. Ty for ur reply hg. It is very commendable that u r so honest here. I am sure it does not come easily to u, being a narc, but u do it for the sake of knowledge. That is v admirable.

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    2. Mona,

      from dictionary. com:
      Cognitive

      of or relating to cognition; concerned with the act or process of knowing, perceiving, etc. : cognitive development; cognitive functioning. 2. of or relating to the mental processes of perception, memory, judgment, and reasoning, as contrasted with emotional and volitional processes.

      Definition #2 answers the difference

      Perse

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  6. Dear Mr Tudor,

    My friend cried “wolf” so many times, that when the real deal happened, my empathy basket had been emptied by him because he had brought it all on himself. His oscar winning victim pity play performance in hospital made me feel sick.

    Every thing they do is “put on” .

    Good meme!

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  7. I still think that deep down inside you HG, you must have some sort of empathy somewhere … Am hoping your good Doctors bring it out of you.
    It’s there, just hidden and unapproachable. In a yet unexplored compartment.

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      1. Yes domestic violence. Thankyou. I am on the island of misfit toys. Or in our case, scrap heap of appliances. Nowhere I would rather be. Than with all you. I feel support here beyond description. Feels stuff from you guys. And cold facts and complete education from HG. Thankyou! All:) Whoever said I was a super e. I wish. NO. Pssh..

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      2. TZ
        There is a group for victims of NPD in my area, however, it was only once a week, for 8 weeks, two hours at a time. Not enough sessions or time to do any good in my opinion. I am here with you on The Island of Misfit Appliances and this is the best place to be for us.

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  8. TZ,

    I would expect this from the court system, but………………
    What in the everlasting froghopping name of beelzebub is wrong with the DV system where you live??

    Oh wait! I have an inkling….It has all the abuse tactics of…what you are trying to get away from..What the fungali!!???

    Did they leave you like that without a referral to another program?

    You have my sympathy. I imagine you are hurt and outraged enough already. Instead of my adding anymore to that..Is there anything I or we can do that would help?

    Perse

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    1. Perse—when my head clears i will reply in full. no referral tho. just don’t come back. and i took the call with my friend. at court. i put her on speaker to be sure i heard it right and didn’t twist words around or “mishear”. nope. human behavior is ugly. twisted. sordid.

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  9. Tappan Zee, I do not know, what kind of people are in that DV group. Did they give you any explanation, why you should leave? It sounds horrible to me, how they treated you!

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