You? Me? Them?

youmethem

 

Once upon a time. The Princess and the Pea. Prince Charming. Snow White. Pretty Woman. Barbie and Ken. The Waltons. Hug you from behind. Breakfast in bed. Picking you up in the rain. Glimpsing you from a train and running after you. The Fabulous Baker Boys. Roman Holiday. Bouquets. Surrounded by your loving family as you pass away. Snow at Christmas. Remembered birthdays. The Little House on the Prairie. Beauty and the Beast. A Room With a View. City breaks. Walking in the foam. Holding hands. Growing old together. Gone With the Wind. The white knight. Crazy For You. The Passion. Spooning in bed. Monogamy. Rosanna. Love Me Tender. Truly Madly Deeply. A candlelit bath. The Best. Gift on the pillow. Save the Best For Last. Impromptu lunch. Dancing cheek to cheek. Someday my prince will come. Red roses. White roses. Opening doors. Up Where We Belong. Romeo and Juliet. Holding your hair. You’re the First, My Last, My Everything. Writing ‘I Love You’ in the steamed up mirror. Endless Love. I Think I Love You. Dedicating a song on the radio. Father Figure. The Power of Love. Fairytale wedding. Carved initials on a tree inside a heart. Giving you the last Rolo. Love conquers all. Love will save the day. Love’s young dream. Love is a many splendored thing. Writing poems. Love notes in a lunch box. A message in the sand. Till death do us part. Together forever. Bright young things. Never Tear Us Apart. Soulmate. Other half. My Heart Will Go On. Bridget Jones’ Diary. I’ll Stand By You. Children. A Whole New World. Paris in the spring time. Lazing in a hammock together. A log cabin by the lake. The Notebook. The Spider man kiss. Notting Hill. Rose and Jack. Letting you sleep in. Bella and Edward. Latika and Jamal. Dirty Dancing. Leading the dancing. Remembering anniversaries. In sickness and in health. When Harry Met Sally. Synchronised orgasms. Sex in the morning. Sex in the evening. Still having sex after all these years. Fidelity. Eyes only for you. An Officer and a Gentleman. Isla and Rick. Letting you first. Knowing you hate spiders. Viola and William. Stardust. Walking in the snow together. Walking through leaves together. Edward Scissorhands. Just the Way You Are. My Girl. Annie’s Song. Matching tattoos. Wearing a wedding band. I Will Always Love You. When a Man Loves a Woman. I Don’t Wanna Miss a Thing. Love is blind. Absence makes the heart grow fonder. The perfect match. Our love is predestined. It was written in the stars above. Love at first sight. Mr/Mrs Right, “My one and only,” “man/woman of my dreams,” “match made in heaven,” “love of my life,” “my true love,” “made for each,” “my perfect match,” “I met the love of my life,” “I knew this was the one.”  “We were meant for each other.” “instant connection,” “clicked right away,” “chemistry at first sight,” “hit it off right away,” “experienced immediate attraction,” “instant rapport,” “completely hit it off,” “it was magical,” “you put a spell on me” . Love is a river that drowns the tender reed. The perfect house. The country idyll. Home is where the heart is. Wuthering Heights. Jayne Eyre. Twilight. The Hunger Games. Gabriel’s Inferno. Water for Elephants. Warming the bed first. Investigating a bump in the night. Holding you during a storm. Never being taken for granted. Perfection. Having it all. The Happy Ever After.

False promises and unrealistic ideals created by them.

A gateway to the false promised land, to the unrealistic ideal life offered and exploited by us.

Resorting to self-destructive and addictive behaviours in order to compensate for these failings and disappointments by becoming entangled with us again and again and again. That’s you.

Who is to blame?

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111 thoughts on “You? Me? Them?”

  1. Its better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all love makes the world go round. I’m just a woman in love and I’ll do anything to get you into my arms
    You can be a cynic all you want your a narc but I’ll never give up on love till the day I take my last breath.not everyone is a narc .I can love someone without them loving me back.I can love for a day a week or a month or ten years.each experience is beautiful and the reason we are put on earth.I will never ever stop loving people nor will I ever stop falling in love.never ain’t happening.

    6+
    1. It is better to have loved and been devalued, trampled on, stripped of your dignity, leeched from, smeared, isolated, assaulted, had your children turned against you, lost your job, had a breakdown and lost.
      Of course it is.

      By all means love. But use your logic in who you choose.

      35+
      1. HG

        This should be a fridge magnet..and obviously signed HG Tudor at the base.
        Bagsy first dibs.

        0
      2. “It is better to have loved and been devalued, trampled on, stripped of your dignity, leeched from, smeared, isolated, assaulted, had your children turned against you, lost your job, had a breakdown and lost.
        Of course it is.

        By all means love. But use your logic in who you choose.”…

        I meant the above should be the fridge magnet btw..

        0
      3. “By all means love. But use your logic in who you choose.” H. G. Tudor

        Thank you!
        I’ll keep it as a “reminder” from now on.

        1+
      4. Lori…

        I understand your reaction. Her is the difference for me. I took on a ton of blame for:

        Hurting the narc
        Our relationship
        His silent treatments
        His infidelity
        His cruelty
        His boredom with me
        His lack of sexual interest

        I took responsibility for all the WRONG things in order to avoid responsibility for staying and making excuses.

        In my situation, I knew he was extremely emotionally abusive and I came back over and over. The blame I took on then kept me hooked in. The blame I take know allows me to GOSO.

        I of course can only speak for myself but HG regularly asks me questions I would not ask myself. I value it.

        1+
  2. How timely is this!
    I didn’t block him. We’ve texted, and the honest things he’s said are… well, brutally honest. I’ve only been an FWB all along (even though joined at the hip for a year) and he says we can apologize for this two week episode by boinking. I honestly considered the benefits of NSA sex, no cuddling, kissing, sweet nothings, no commitment, keeping my (potential) options open, too.

    Seems like a lot of trouble for a couple orgasms, not to mention being utterly demeaning. ahhhhh… nope, can’t do it. but i thought about it 🙂

    6+
    1. It is better to have loved and been devalued, trampled on, stripped of your dignity, leeched from, smeared, isolated, assaulted, had your children turned against you, lost your job, had a breakdown and lost.
      Of course it is.

      By all means love. But use your logic in who you choose.

      ^All day that. ✔️✔️✔️

      4+
  3. You, the narcissist, are still to blame for the way you behave. Period. Seriously, you’re trying to make us look like we’re to blame?

    11+
    1. Lori,

      Sometimes we need to step back and see what it is that makes us susceptible to manipulation. It doesn’t mean they’re less at fault or that you’re more at fault. It means that you could learn from it so that history is less likely to repeat itself. I understand it’s hard to do when you’re hurting.

      5+
      1. Sophia,

        I understand what you are saying. I Have stepped back and have learned alot about myself and why I would put up with the things I did with my exN, and I learned about my own background and my own personality as a co-dependent (Mom was a narc) … and honestly, I HAVE taken my share of responsibility… of course I would as the empath that I am. But to me, it appears that HG is continually still trying to make us feel like we need to question if we’re to blame ( as in the case of what he wrote above). All of us here on this blog have taken our share of the blame, in fact, More than our share. But there are times when I feel like some of ‘Us’ on this site aren’t looking at what HG is doing by way of getting his share of fuel via a bit of our brain washing through his muses and writings. And don’t get me wrong – I am an HG fan! I am extremely thankful he is sharing his knowledge and is helping so many people, definitely myself included. And I read his blogs every day because I learn so much and I enjoy his occasional humor. I just want to point out, in my perspective, from time to time that I see him subtly manipulating his fans here. Let’s not forget that our “God” HG is still a narcissist, no matter what. And hopefully you’ll smile when I tell you that I have had a couple of recent other situations of seeing the red flags and immediately NOT allowing history to repeat itself for me. I walked away, whereas before knowing what I know now I might not have walked away.
        ~ love to you, Sophia. I appreciate your thoughts and concerns.

        6+
      2. No doubt HG manipulates. For fuel, ideas. There’s a poll “What hurt you the most …” seems to me like obvious fodder for a Narc’s damage file.

        I find HG’s insights into N. behavior incredibly helpful. I’d really like to see him do more in depth personal problem solving publicly with people online. At the tail ‘end’ of a Narc discard I don’t have $$ to spare and the fact he is profiting off this is disappointing and smacks of fraud.

        Still, I’m going to stay engaged. I dont have to like someone to learn from them.

        2+
      3. 1. Of course I manipulate. I have never said to the contrary.
        2. These polls are for the purpose of gathering information to use with regard to the provision of further information through the blog and my writing.
        3. Of course you want more in-depth personal problem solving because you do not want to pay for a bespoke solution. However, I provide HOURS of free material through the blog articles and videos and I provide thousands of answers to questions already.
        4. In depth personal problem solving is not appropriate for the blog because

        a. I need proper information to be provided. This would mean asking for further detail from a person. By the time they respond, I would have to find their original comment, my questions and then their answers an marry all of that up (which takes more time than it would through an e-mail consultation or an audio consultation) and then read it, consider it and reply to it.
        b. This would slow down my availability to moderate considerably;
        c. It would lead to an avalanche of similar requests;
        d. This would impact on the blog in a detrimental fashion.
        e. Some people do not want their personal circumstances discussed in public

        5. To suggest it is fraud is pathetic. It is a service. All who have engaged with me this way find it extremely useful. I have many e-mail responses thanking me for how useful the process has been. I have many repeat clients. Nobody has ever suggested that the consultations are not worth it, in fact many suggest I should raise the cost because it is so worthwhile compared to the cost of therapy. Would you see your doctor or lawyer and expect them to provide their expertise for free? If you are suffering because of a broken arm, is it disappointing because the doctor is making money from that suffering by helping you? There is no fraud involved at all and you might do well to understand what that word really means before you throw it around in such a manner.

        You are right my work is incredibly helpful. You are also right you do not have to like someone to learn from them. You should however think before you write certain things.

        8+
    2. Lori,

      We are just as culpable as the Narc after choosing to engage with or continue the Narc relationship. Once we identify the Narc and learn his modus operandi, we are then willing participants in our own abuse. You cannot control a Narcissist or minimize his harm to yourself or others. You can only effectively avoid him through No Contact.

      I’m learning this through my own personal experience with my Narc.

      10+
      1. Quite honestly if you want to put some bloggers on a guilt trip with this you just did Kimi.

        “We are just as “culpable” as the Narc after choosing to engage with or continue the Narc relationship. ”

        Bull shit . Read the blog again Kim, until you actually understand .

        3+
      2. Not so Sad,

        Just saw your response.

        I am speaking my own truth and perhaps I am wrong for making a blanket statement.

        I knowingly submitted to a hoover from my Narc 3 months ago. A year ago, I did not know he was a Narc or even what a Narcissist truly is. I now know and realize that only further abuse can result from my relationship with this Narc, therefore I am culpable in my own abuse by choosing to engage with him. The relationship is ending and I have verification of the above. This is my own truth.

        I would never knowingly hurt or guilt another poster here. We have all experienced enough abuse already… Like you though, I would call out what I perceive as inappropriate behavior.

        6+
  4. Ah. Chingona,

    That decision was a good one.Have you met B.O.B. yet? He can be very helpful making you forget that FWB.(F**kW*dB*****d).
    Do NC and you will be living up to your name!
    Hope you don’t mind the humor.

    Perse

    3+
  5. We’re all to blame. Them, you, me. Since the only person I can take responsibility for is me I’ll be wiser with my choices in the future. Still, I’d rather be me any given day, not going about hurting people, destroying souls for my viscous ego boost.

    6+
  6. It’s still the same old story
    A fight for love and glory
    A case of do or die.
    The world will always welcome lovers
    As time goes by.

    I think it is Ilsa and Rick, HG (not Isla and Rick).

    I once heard someone say that romantic comedies are female pornography. I agree with that statement. And, I do enjoy to watch some female porn once in a while.

    2+
  7. When all these romantic cliches are strung together like this, they sound far-fetched and unrealistic, however, when romance occurs honestly and with good intentions, it is useful and welcome in smaller doses. When the motive can be trusted, a romantic gesture makes life sweeter and softens the routine and mundane aspects of everyday life.

    Imagine if all we had to look forward to were takeaway dinners and never the option of dinner in a romantic setting with a beautiful view, candlelight and wine… or if sex was porn-like without any affection or tenderness. There is definitely a place for romance and it is not always hopelessly idealistic or far removed from reality.

    The narcissist KNOWS that love and romance is charged with wishful thinking and vulnerable emotions and mercilessly uses it to target and seduce a victim who DOES NOT KNOW what the narcissist’s agenda truly is. How can an unknowing victim be held accountable for believing in love and romance when the narcissist intentionally and ruthlessly intends to deceive and manipulate?

    Blaming the victim for blindly believing in a “false promised land” is yet another way to deny, deflect and avoid accountability.

    As for “them”, it would help if there were more books and films that openly portrayed narcissistic behaviour so that the reality of what they do became better understood and recognised. Perhaps that would help to reduce the numbers of unsuspecting victims and make romance more realistic.

    4+
    1. JenniferJ

      I used to watch that reality all the time on the Investigation channel. I’d be like WTF is with these people? Really, how could the wife not know?He’s sleeping right next to her!

      I found out quite painfully.

      Many of them are the same type of people we deal with all the time. No one knows what goes on behind closed doors is true, and Out of sight, out of mind,operates effectively when you trust.

      These stories end up on TV only when criminal acts are uncovered, but narcissist are portrayed on many of these shows. They just don’t conveniently label them for you.

      But it’s not “entertainment”. There is no happy ending. Since we are programmed for resolution, these shows are not popular enough.

      0
    2. And perhaps we could stop buying into the unlimited fairytales of love and romance demonstrated in existing books and fims that cause us to relentlessly pursue that standard and results in us falling victim to those who would deliver it.

      0
      1. EXACTLY NA. It is a social construct reinforced by songs, films, advertising etc etc. It is the greatest socially supported lie out there.

        I DO believe in love bit it DOES NOT save anything. It does not mean I should stay with someone. And it does not require the complete abdication of my needs and desires.

        It completely pisses me off now when I hear that garbage… Hence my being okay with the TV being spirited away by druh addicts lol… Don’t have to psychologically combat the love lie infused in every aspect of the media.

        0
      2. DFL

        Most dangerous in that it starts in childhood with princes and princesses. Like I said on another thread-fuck Disney. Brainwashing and damaging children since 1937 (ish).

        1+
  8. That is the issue… Is it so important to know who to blame ?

    What he did will never be forgotten. I had already distanced myself from him. And was “no pity” talking to him. Only factual and polite since several months.

    So a last rage. I didn’t react, I knew it was the missing piece. I came here and spent a lot of time reading. I have understood. Everything written in this blog happened word for word, situation for situation. But I have also understood that I had always knew what was going on. Always. Each time I had the choice to say no. To stop it. I didn’t.

    I had lost my logical mind. I was only an emotionball. A giant egotic emotionball. Because of who? Doesn’t matter. It was yesterday.

    I have grown a lot with this experience, I have found me back.

    He is different, he is so strange. But I feel affection for him. And now for me also. He has come back, like ever. He wants my attention. I feel affection for him and I will go on giving him. Even softly.

    Cause I have found my limits and he will go on finding them to.
    Cause I am in peace now.

    Thank you so much.

    5+
  9. Oh come off it!! You make me laugh, HG. You think one wouldn’t recognise your projection? Self-destructive and addictive behaviours are the ones your kind display. You are a slave to the fuel, and that would be just sad if it weren’t also a little bit amusing! The folks of your kind are simple; you operate at a lower level of consciousness, which has undoubtedly served you well through the course of history. However it seems to be the case that the times, they are a-changing. Look at yourself, giving us all this knowledge for free!? Do you not realise that all this knowledge is being used to heal and grow? Do you not realise that we will keep using it as ammunition to dismantle your world and build a Narc-free future ? You are a vital pawn in the game being played to raise human consciousnesses to a higher, more functional level. Bu doing what you do, you are contributing to the extinction of your kind.
    No one’s to blame, HG. We are Ying and Yang. We are battling each other. May the best triumph.

    3+
      1. You can’t know that for sure 🙂 That’s just one of the infinity of things that you cannot control because you are not have that power: you are but a mere human being.
        “We live in capitalism. Its power seems inescapable. So did the divine right of kings. Any human power can be resisted and changed by human beings. Resistance and change often begin in art, and very often in our art, the art of words”.
        Ursula K. Le Guin

        And what art form are you using, precisely? That of words.

        A good evening to you, Sir.

        0
    1. SHG,

      The Ying and the Yang are constants. They are opposites, yet one cannot exist without the other. They will always be.They describe good and evil, light and dark, male and female.There will never be one without the other.

      This is reality.

      The good thing is, it doesn’t stop us from choosing which we will be..

      0
    2. SHG

      I like that you dream big, but there is no Narc-free future. The change that is acheivable is in how we educate and arm ourselves to interact with them because that is inevitable and completely up to us.

      0
  10. Lori,

    I was raised by narcissists as well. I completely understand what you are saying. There is some kind of power in owning our vulnerability to change a pattern. It took me a long time to understand the difference between it’s all my fault versus this is why I attract these people.

    Hugs!

    0
  11. HG. I have a question. You say you get fuel when Your criticized accompanied by high emotion. What do you feel if I criticized you and I was sarcastic. Sarcastic in regard to your being a narcissist?

    1+
  12. Everyone is to blame. The victim has unreal expectations, the narc has unreal expectations, the film producers collect profit selling these expectations.

    2+
  13. The people who write the books, produce the movies and sing them damn songs.
    They portray what love look, feel, and sound like.

    Love of my life my soul mate your best friend..blah blah blah

    2+
  14. I dont see the assigning of blame. I see information given from a narcissists point of view on the reasons they operate the way that they do and the methods used to acheive their aims. One is free to accept or discount that information and certainly to comment on it. No one is required to accept it without question or being held here against their will. There are many places to get information and some of those places are operated by both unaware and unexposed narcissists and you are welcome to utilize those. In this case you are told up front what he is and you can filter the information accordingly. I think its entirely plausible to ask the questions in polls such as “what hurt you the most”. You need to know your audience in order to be able to address their needs and provide the appropriate articles and responses. Given his obvious intelligence and writing ability, HG would not have to be so blatant If he were exercising manipulation but I understand the questioning of it given that he is a narcissist and part of the healing process in my opinion, is not accepting things at face value as we may have done in the past, but asserting fraud for a service provided is beyond ridiculous and insulting. No one is charged for reading here and the podcasts and interviews that provide information than most would find in a therapy session (where you do all the talking) are also free. I find the claims that a consultation is prohibitive due to cost also hard to believe. Forty (or fifty-whatever it is now) dollars for an email consultation tailored specifically to your needs and not exposed for all to see is not much more than a pizza and wing night and I find it hard to believe one could not come up with that iin order to assist with their mental health. I always imagine those same people not balking at gas, wine, a new outfit or any costs incurred for a romantic date with what is likely to be another narcissist.

    I see people here repeatedly falling back into the same trap despite getting and now knowing the information required to avoid it. Is that the narcissists fault?

    There is no blame or fault but their is responsibility to own our share of the equation if things are ever to change. Otherwise we are just blame-shifting as they do.

    6+
    1. “I don’t have $$ to spare and the fact he is profiting off this is disappointing and smacks of fraud.”

      I am sorry u have suffered frm narc abuse. This is the best place to be. I am sure u will find the answers u need right here.

      I wud like to point out that this blog is practically charitable, considering how much information he posts for ABSOLUTELTY FREE.

      He needs to make a living too, for his time. Surely u realize this? He charges MUCH less than therapists.

      2+
      1. jenna
        It would have cost me well over $10,000.00 for the help that I receive here for free and it would not have been as effective.

        4+
      2. K, did you not realise I am on a 20% commission of sums saved arrangement, I shall ready my invoice.

        6+
      3. HG
        How about a trade? Some marbles, Topps Chewing Gum cards and two empaths that I have painted black.

        2+
      4. jenna
        After listening to others talk about therapy, it seems as if it is not very effective and sometimes it seems detrimental. $165.00 for 45 minutes of sympathy is not very helpful. Like you, I do not want sympathy; I wanted answers and I get them here. Ironically, my experience with HG is the opposite of fraud.

        2+
      5. Noted sir!

        But how is offering a super empath to u making a choice for u?

        I thought u prefer super empaths. Hgt1f stated that u said it in ur interview (an interview i have not heard yet).

        Or perhaps u choose an SE when and if u desire only? Is that what u mean?

        Wud u be so kind and direct me to that interview? If it takes too much time to find it, then no prblm at all.

        0
      6. You are trying to tell me who to pick. I decide who I pick. You do not make decisions for me.

        Note, the co-dependents were offered but not within a particular role. You assumed it would be IPPS, but they may well occupy a different role.

        4+
      7. Perfect. I will gather the unsuspecting souls using a trail of Reese’s Pieces and then send you the GPS coordinates to effect the trade, thus, satisfying the 20% commission of sums saved arrangement. Are we in accord?

        1+
      8. Ok, fine. Have it your way. Didn’t you see E.T. when you were a child?
        Elliot used Reese’s Pieces to lure E.T. out of the shed.

        0
      9. Find another person. Tell that person that your aim is to hum the theme tunes to Indiana Jones, Star Wars and Superman. They choose the order so they may say Superman and you start humming that theme tune, when they say Star Wars you have to seamlessly then stop Superman and start humming the theme tune to Star Wars and then when they say Indian Jones, you have to seamlessly shift to start humming that theme tune. See if you can do it without fluffing it.

        2+
      10. Well, no surprise there.

        Black Color Psychology and Meaning. Associated with power, elegance, formality, death, evil, and mystery. A mysterious color associated with fear and the unknown (black holes). Usually has a negative connotation (blacklist, black humor, ‘black death’).

        0
      11. K
        C’mon K! You gotta up the ante.

        Indy once proposed biscuits and gravy made with the souls of little babies and that caught his attention. Huge bonfires in Kentucky (or anywhere really) piques his interest. But sometimes simple is best- why not start with screaming that turns to laughter while tears stream down your face?

        3+
      12. “20% commission of sums saved arrangement”

        I don’t mind. U can ready ur invoice for me. It is justified, legitimate, and fair, imo.

        Look, forget abt money, i practically owe u my life. Without u, i wud have still been clinically depressed and absolutely miserable.

        3+
      13. K,

        Thx for ur contribution. It definitely wud not have been as effective. In my personal experience w therapists, it was not at all effective. Nil. Nada. Zip.

        I wanted answers. They did not have the answers. They only had sympathy. ‘Oh, that must have been so hard’. I did not pay her $165 per 45 min session for sympathy. I paid her to help me find a solution. All she cud say was ‘u need to cut ties completely’. Uh, i already know that. But, how? Why is he doing this in the first place? Why am i reacting like this? What is it abt me that causes me to become so utterly panic stricken? She did not provide any answers.

        Hg did.

        3+
      14. Oh yes hahah
        When those big spaceships are being blown up he starts really trolling too.
        Teasing Luke about his dying friends.
        Then Vader trolls him about knowing he has a sister.
        if someone is burnt by HG at work HG is like
        “Im afraid you’ll find my facade is quite operational”

        2+
      15. A black lightsaber would look really good.
        Bad vs Good has to be Red vs Blue because Black vs White would have certain overtones that are not relevant.

        0
      16. Makes sense. Isn’t it the case though that a white (or perhaps it is a clear lightsaber) is one which has not yet been imprinted and is not an indicator of being ‘good’?

        0
      17. HG
        I was going over the contract and was wondering if you would apply Punitive Manipulation and seek redress through the provision of negative fuel if jenna and I failed to honor our contractual duties?

        1+
      18. Oh I didn’t know that, maybe that is in the Expanded Universe Books and Games.
        There is a really good deleted scene in Return of the Jedi where Luke is in a cave adjusting his lightsaber deciding on red or green.

        1+
    2. TY… Well put NA. I am amazed at how much HG offers for free and his commitment in answering questions. They are thoughtful honest responses and I for one appreciate you enormously HG!

      I’ve said it before and I will say it again…

      I left the narcissistic sociopath of 13 years and believe he was not a bad person. He was not a good person. He was simply who he was. I do not resent him. I have no desire for revenge. He was this person the minute before I met him. He continues to be this person since I left him. I did not cause it BUT I DID volunteer for it in spite of KNOWING he was abusive.

      Just the indifference of the universe visiting… And I would not trade those 13 years in for anything. They have revealed invaluable insight. Honestly I am grateful for the experience…

      It is not about blame… It is about acceptance of myself and him. And I mean accepting the brutal honesty… Acceptance allowed me to leave with a calm mind and heart. My anger in the relationship was with myself for enduring it. Once I stopped being angry with myself I saw the value in my experiences and could leave.

      3+

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