Me Too
Harvey Weinstein. Kevin Spacey. Brett Ratner, Dustin Hoffman. Michael Oreskes. Michael Fallon.
The names of men who have been accused of inappropriate sexual behaviour ranging from an unwanted hand on the knee, the commission of sexual acts through coercion through to rape. All of varying degrees of seriousness. All allegations coming to the fore in a current climate of exposure.
Some of the men have admitted certain sexual misconduct. Others vehemently deny it and state it never happened or the act occurred but there was consent. Whilst certainly innocent until proven guilty in a criminal court, there has been public vilification with organisations distancing themselves from the accused from cancelling television programmes to removing certain memberships and honours.
The backdrop of a tidal wave of allegations coming from famous and not so famous victims has widened to many people confirming that they have been a victim of unwelcome sexual behaviour and thus the hashtag me too began to trend on social media.
The reaction to this cause celebre has been varied :-
- Praise for victims of this behaviour who now feel emboldened enough to speak out about it;
- Concerns about a band wagon mentality which results in false allegations being made and real concerns being taken less seriously;
- Questions about why the victims are only speaking up now;
- Criticism of those who stayed silent and accepted a pay off in return;
- Accusations of there being witch hunts.
As I have pointed out previously, for all of the copious acres of newsprint on these allegations and exposures, the fact that the perpetrators are of our kind (see the articles A Very Hollywood Narcissist and A Very Deflecting Narcissist ) and are more than likely going to be of our kind, has been missed.
Yet the spectre of narcissism in this matter does not end there.
There can be no doubt that there are many victims that I shall call True Victims of unwelcome and distressing inappropriate sexual behaviour. Whether it was an attempt to gain sexual gratification through the promise of success or the threat of failure to instances where sexual assault or rape occurred, there are True Victims.
Why are many only speaking out now? There are two fundamental reasons behind this.
The first is that certain ‘pioneers’ have led the allegations and since those allegations have received airtime, newsprint and not been brushed under the carpet as they once were, these True Victims have realised that they can now at last reveal what has happened to them without fear or consequence, or at least a reduced impact in that regard. There is a far more receptive atmosphere to the allegations. Do not think however that this is because the mainstream media suddenly cares – it does not – but this is news and news sells, so it is allowed prominence. The public at large may be more receptive owing to a change in outlook over the decades – what once might have been seen as ‘harmless slap and tickle’ is now regarded in a more serious light – but the public’s reception is not one of wholesale change (see the less favourable comments bandied around about the accusers) and furthermore it is not the shift in a section of society’s values which has enabled this mass confession. Having seen certain noteworthy names come forward and state their case and have it listened to, has caused further complainants to emerge benefitting from this strength in numbers. This is one of the reasons why so many are speaking out.
The second reason is a darker reason and I shall return to that presently.
Why are they only speaking out now? Why didn’t they do something at the time? They are creating a witch hunt, jumping on the bandwagon and creating a climate of fear for anyone who dares to even compliment someone. These are the cries of the detractors.
The True Victims are only speaking out now because when the alleged actions took place they felt unable to and this is for a variety of reasons:-
a. Fear of not being believed;
b. Fear of repercussions;
c. Blurred lines;
d. Fear of victim-blaming
e. The imbalance of power
These are entirely valid reasons. Why? They are entirely valid because my our kind rely on these forms of manipulation to enable us to keep a hold over our victims, extract fuel from them, maintain control and avoid culpability. These five issues are present through all manner of abuse of a victim, not just in the sexual arena.
a. We generate a facade of respectability, of being a pillar of the community and not someone who would ever engage in such behaviour. Who is going to be believed? The reputable charity-supporting business man or the young drop-out?
b. Retaliation is a key part of our arsenal. Don’t do what we want and expect there to be repercussions – the end of the relationship, us choosing someone else, you not getting the job or the contract, others being told not to deal with you, physical violence, financial pressure, the rolling out of the other well-known manipulations that we use against our victims. Cross us, challenge our control and you know what happens. These True Victims knew this too.
c. The situation is made less clear cut than it actually was. We use plausible deniability, gas lighting and deflection so you perhaps doubt whether any transgression actually took place and that you were really a willing participant.
d. We are notorious for smearing those who challenge us and somebody who is a major player in an industry which is both fickle and hard to penetrate. It is difficult enough to gain work to begin with and would become impossible if key players smear that person. Furthermore, the concepts of the casting couch, the use of feminine wiles, the perception that people will use looks and sexuality to secure an advantage, the idea that the victim knew what this person was like and still engaged with them and other long-standing perceptions all results in an attitude that the victim asked for it and shouldn’t then go crying about it.
e. Our kind always operate on an imbalance of power. Sometimes it is obvious – the famous producer and the receptionist, the Oscar winner and the barman, the acclaimed director and the aspiring actress. Often it is less obvious. Many victims are independent, intelligent and strong individuals but this becomes useless when a narcissist ensnares them because we select those victims who are inherently susceptible to what we are and how we operate. The victim does not stand a chance and for all of their grit, spunkiness and spirit, they do not see us coming and do not realise how they face a massive imbalance of power when it comes to us ensnaring them. Every battle is won before it is ever fought and that relies on this imbalance of power (in many different ways) between narcissist and victim.
Thus the concerns of these True Victims are real, accurate and operated (as we always want them to) to keep them quiet and compliant.
Yet, this is not the whole story. There are others who are victims – they suffered the inappropriate behaviour etc – but their responses are entirely different. Why is this? It is because those victims are narcissists too.
A narcissist will ensnare another narcissist. Often it is unwitting and of course if it is a one off involvement the outcome, in terms of fuel, will be similar to that of an empathic victim. It is over the longer term that such a clash between narcissist and narcissist, largely, becomes unsustainable.
Those victim narcissists did nothing in the first instance because they saw no reason to do so, not because there were the factors which I have described above but because :-
a. The victim narcissist is being fuelled – the behaviour of the predator narcissist is fuel. Whether negative or positive, it amounts to fuel;
b. The victim narcissist sees an advantage in receiving this attention. They either positively embrace it as a way to progress their position – the ‘casting couch’ concept – or they use it as a method to seek to manipulate the predator narcissist in an alternative way, for instance threatening a complaint to gain an advantage such as a role or a pay off or dangling the prospect of a further interaction for additional fuel and other benefits;
c. The victim narcissist stands more to gain by embracing or at least not complaining about the behaviour – at that juncture.
The factors I described earlier which impact on a True Victims are not actually issues which concern the victim narcissist but that victim narcissist may well use those reasons at a later stage to further their own position. This exemplified the expedient behaviour of the narcissist who is also a victim of the predator narcissist. He or she stays silent years ago because it is a benefit to do so, not because they are especially concerned about the risk of doing so and then this expedient behaviour manifests at a later stage by then joining the tide of complaints with the True Victims. They then, adopting the victim mentality which narcissists have, use the concerns of the True Victims, adopting for themselves because that is an advantage for them to do so.
How then does one identify these victim narcissists? An analysis of the individual and their behaviour is likely to demonstrate the key indicators – lack of empathy, sense of entitlement, use of manipulation, grandiosity, lack of accountability etc but there is also a further substantial reason.
There are those who have claimed to be or are victims of Weinstein et al who have then got themselves into a position of power of influence. They are rich, they can choose the scripts that are sent to them, they begin producing films themselves, they are famous, they have influence in Hollywood and beyond.
Yet they said nothing.
They are in a powerful position, standing on a platform from which they could readily expose their abuser and not only be believed but cause action to be taken. They could state “This happened to me” and do so truthfully and bring influence to bear and be a torch bearer for those less powerful to gather under their banner of exposure. But they did not. They did not do so 5 or 10 or 15 years ago, even though it is generally accepted the behaviour of the predator narcissists has been going on for a considerable period of time. Why have these now powerful individuals stayed silent? They need not fear repercussions, there is no or a far smaller imbalance of power, they will be believed but they did not speak out.
They did not do so because they are narcissists too and in common with their lack of empathy, sense of entitlement and self-interest they saw nothing to be gained in speaking out. However, when others who are True Victims have spoken out, these victim narcissist s, ever knee to gain fuel, maintain the facade and benefit themselves have confirmed ‘me too’, condemned their abusers, railed against anybody for victim-shaming and exhibited false empathy.
Accordingly, when some observers criticise the behaviour of some of the victims, there is some force in their criticism albeit it is not based on the actual dynamic of why these victims have behaved in that way.
The True Victims are above reproach for the reasons explained. There are however, clear reasons to question the behaviour of some and those are the victim narcissists.
This brings us back to the question of why these exposures have happened now. People have been led to believe that there has been a shift in values which has empowered people to come forward. There has not been such a shift in the last 5,10 or 20 years. So, why did these exposures not occur 5 years ago on such a scale? Why not 15 years ago?
Ordinarily the transgressions of the predator narcissists would be covered up, kept in check by their handlers and those who have an interest in maintaining the status quo. The reason that people have been able to come forward, that their exposures have not been quashed through threat or pay-off as a consequence of the powerful and far-reaching capability of certain individuals, is because those individuals have been the catalyst for these exposures and have their own reasons for wanting to see the exposures gain momentum and the downfall of particular individuals. Once upon a time any such ‘dissent’ would have been crushed, sidelined, diluted or discouraged. No longer. There is a purpose to allowing the exposure to happen and to flourish.
There will be much more to come.
Now, what type of people do you think are behind causing this to happen and allowing it to happen?
37 thoughts on “Me Too”
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Very important article
Again that deflecting fearless rage is what strikes me going through social media. So hallmark of the victim narcissist and the narcissist commentator of Metoo . There seems to be no shakes in her.
Their tone goes:
“I too was abused by [famous person]!
MEN!!! You can’t trust them!!!”
“Men!!!! They’re gaslighting us!!! All of them are”
It’s that fearless tone.
Idk, when the rest of us go through abuse we just don’t sound quite like this, afterwards. In my experience.
This is only important to me, but wanted to say that my ex-husband was not a Narcissist. He is formidable, yes, but he loved me, cared about me, was loyal, honest, vulnerable (to me), confident never arrogant, proud yet humble, hard-working, determined, never complained, took good care of me and times being with him were the happiest of my life. I wish that we had been better at communication. Also, life threw us a wicked curve ball. We should have been a team instead of adversaries. Hopefully, we will all learn to find the right person and how to have a healthy, loving relationship with this most special, treasured person that cannot be torn apart. Good people are hard to find – if you find one, hold tight!!
Dear Mr Tudor,
My instinct who’s behind this is …. the media, lawyers and narcissists themselves … it’s always about money, fame and notoriety!
I may be way off track, but I’m giving it a go
Great analysis testing skills … I like these .. …I look forward to the results
Thank you
Excellent new post HG.
I very much enjoyed reading your insights.
Thank you.
What do you really think of the victims and of the perpetrators?
As stated in the article.
I found it interesting when I first started hearing about the allegations that it was Ronan Farrow (son of Woody Allen), Angelina Jolie (angel with a dirty face narcissist), and Gwenyth Paltrow (narcissist) leading the charge.
I thought this thread would have more traffic and discussion but it appears even here people are reluctant to voice their views for fear of alienating others or found to be victim shaming as it is a sensitive subject. I mentioned on the Weinstein thread that some supporters and those saying all the right things in the scandal (and subsequent) would likely be found to be narcissists themselves. After reading the Narcissists Colliding articles here I am convinced that to be the case.
When it is narc on narc, then the thoughts/questions are:
1. Ulterior/opportunistic motives?
2. If a narc is raped/groped are they victims or is it fuel/potential benefits?
3. There are true victims but we have to ferret them out.
What a mess!
Yes, I know that this man is a Narcissist. He does what he wants, when he wants, to whoever he wants. I do not matter. My feelings are not considered. He doesn’t care about me or love me and never will. He just wants me to be quiet and give him what he wants. He knows there is plausible deniability and that he is the one who will be believed. He is bigger, stronger and smarter. He will get away with this because he gets away with everything. I am supposed to feel grateful to him and no one ever says no. Who do I think I am?
I knew what sort of person I was talking to and made the mistake of believing that I could handle him. This is because I was married to the most formidable man I have known romantically. Silly me. Turns out, he isn’t the only one out there.
Thank you, HG, for sharing your perspective with all of us. I am truly grateful.
Good article, HG. I am not a great fan of this movement. There is quite a difference between a hand on the knee and rape.
It also can allow vindictive women to come forward and blame a man for essentially flirting with her.
I was just thinking how firing someone over mere allegations doesn’t seem fair, yet when that person is in the public arena or has a public persona or is a public servant, part of their ‘duty’ is to uphold a sort of public standard.
I was very disappointed to learn of Charlie Rose.
So while I support the exposure of predators, I do still think this needs to be examined on a case by case basis, so not to rule out that there are female narcissists as well, who might be looking to smear a man’s career out of retaliation.
Kate,
Your comment below gives this person than je deserves and decrease you as a human being. Words have power…you give life to the things you speak. Please stop giving him the power. Your comments appear to come from your emotions. Now, think about them logically it removes all emotions and help you to regulate your emotions.
“He does what he wants, when he wants, to whoever he wants. I do not matter. My feelings are not considered. He doesn’t care about me or love me and never will. He just wants me to be quiet and give him what he wants. He knows there is plausible deniability and that he is the one who will be believed. He is bigger, stronger and smarter. He will get away with this because he gets away with everything. I am supposed to feel grateful to him and no one ever says no. Who do I think I am?”
Hi Yolo,
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to clarify my post!
I was trying to express my feelings at that moment. I was feeling especially sad and this event just happened to me about three months ago. I did an email consultation with HG just last month and started reading his blog soon after. I am in the process of learning about Narcissists and their behavior towards us, which has hurt me and makes no sense!
You got right to the heart of the matter. However, I did not and do not give him my power. He stole it. Temporarily. Without my consent. He had no right to do that to me! Some days I feel sad, others I feel angry and others I manage to concentrate on someone or something else. My post was meant to show his perspective (as I understand it to be) versus my perspective and how powerless a rape victim feels, not just in that moment but after. I know there are others besides myself who have had this happen to them and may relate to what I expressed. I have found it very helpful to express myself on this blog because I can be anonymous.
This MeToo movement has become a witch hunt to advance some kind of narrative against men, and advance women’s causes. The allegations may have some truth which needs due process, however there is something else behind this movement. I believe that it has to do with population control. The exercise is to instill fear in people to create a repulsion between sexes, stop chemistry, dating and eventual pro-creation. Nobody will explain the true intentions of the movement openly.
I hate this movement, too and agree there is an insidious agenda behind it.
Yes Kate. I hate it too. In my experience this is a movement (along with many other crazy and useless movements) propagandised strongly in the US more than any other country. Narcissistic and schizophrenic media puppeteers have an agenda. My brother always says to me ‘Sniglet, I worry about you. You always seem to have a front row seat to the circus. Whatever you do, remember not to jump on the circus stage wherever you are.’ I love how he captured by my experiences in a simple line. Basically reserve my own actions/reactions and don’t buy into everything I see and hear.
No, its long over due. Think about how they treated Anita Hill after she outed Clarence Thomas. Countless other women that were paid signed disclosure to keep quiet. The only shocking part is most of them are believed and these men with Power are stepping down. Careers are being ruined and I hope this really prompts change.
It is hard to believe that such a desirable man like the one that I am referring to would force himself on anyone. I am told that rape is all about power and control. I don’t know if that is right. It was so unnecessary. I really liked this guy and don’t know why he didn’t just let things develop naturally. So much of this man’s behavior makes no sense. Help!
Kate
Maybe he was a sadist and wanted to inflict pain and terror (fuel), as well.
Hi E.B.,
True Victims do not want attention and I cannot imagine one being willing to get all done up and showing herself to anyone. I am speaking of personal experience and seeking help from doctors who happened to be women. They were fat, ugly, power-hungry women who seemed to think they are superior to me, were angry, disbelieving and sneared at me. They should have been sympathetic and caring, which is what I expected. They added to my pain and confusion. Thank you for your input on this sensitive issue..
Hi Kate,
I am afraid you misunderstood my comment. I did not write or mean that victims want attention. Of course they do not. I wrote: “They envy the attention a victim receives from others”.
Victims may receive *unwanted attention* in the form of understanding or help from empathetic people. Narcissists want to be the centre of attention and if they notice it, they will do anything to stop it (e.g. by smearing the victim) and to bring the attention back to themselves.
I believe you that female doctors added to your pain and confusion instead of helping you and I am sorry to hear you went through this.
“They were fat, ugly, power-hungry women who seemed to think they are superior to me, were angry, disbelieving and sneered at me.”
Oh yes, I cannot understand why they act so arrogant and feel superior. They look you me and down and make rude remarks.
Some years ago I opened up to this apparently compassionate, caring female GP with 5-Star reviews. She got angry at me (first red flag). Although she did not lash out at me, she got loud, blamed me for what had happened to me, went out of the room without saying goodbye and told her female doctor colleague and another assistant what I had previously told her. Appointments are supposed to be confidential but rules do not apply to narcissists.
Were you able to find any other empathetic individual who listened to you and helped you?
E.B.,
Thank you for your sweet note. I am sorry if I sounded angry with you! You were kind to share your experience with me. It sounds very similar to mine.
I have a friend who is a professional therapist and suggested that I try a male therapist. I found one who is very kind and compassionate, which is unfamiliar to me. I am hopeful that he will be able to help. Thank you!!!
Hi Kate,
You are welcome. You did not sound angry at all. It was a misunderstanding and I wanted to clarify what I had written.
It is good to hear that you found a kind and compassionate male therapist who can help.
I have read your other comment about your husband. I am very sorry that it did not turn out as expected. Difficult times can allow us to grow. You are right that good people are hard to find. The problem is that we usually attract the wrong people. There are good and empathetic men too. I hope find someone you can build a strong relationship with.
Most of my female narcissists are morbidly obese, ugly, smelly and several have missing teeth. They are beastly.
Thank you for keeping them near you!
K,
Ha ha – We have the same female narcs 🙂
Do they also –>embrace<- their natural body hair like those I know??
I am sensitive to bad odour.
I’d love to drop the somatic I knew into that ring of beasts. Watch him scream as the fatroll orgy encloses on him.
Just one giant, smothering orgy of fat.
Ha ha ha…thanks for the laugh! I will gladly share them, after all, I am an empath.
E. B.
Ha ha…we do have the same narcs. They embrace it all! Eau de Latrine comes to mind, which can be any combo of rotten fish, piss, and feces, and one of them has to shave her face daily. They, also, don’t realize that they are obese (or smelly). Sometimes it was so bad, I had to hold my breath.
Ha ha ha…I would love to see the somatic get rolled by my female narcs, Bibi! My females wobble, if he is fleet then it may take a while, but it would make for great entertainment.
Answer: People who don’t give a shit… amongst other issues. And people who care too much… amongst other issues.
You raise many thought-provoking points here. Nice article, HG.
“The victim does not stand a chance and for all of their grit, spunkiness and spirit, they do not see us coming and do not realise how they face a massive imbalance of power when it comes to us ensnaring them. Every battle is won before it is ever fought and that relies on this imbalance of power (in many different ways) between narcissist and victim.” – HG Tudor
Words of truth.
Indeed.
And the end result remains the same – the True Victim is revictimized, traumatized, abused, doubted, no one is willing to step up and help her, and is seen by others who personally know nothing about rape with hatred and scorn. I think some women are the most angry of all of them at her and wonder if they are jealous which is sick and they are very bad, uncaring and sadistic people! Without visual evidence, justice will never be hers.
Hello Kate,
I agree with what you wrote.
“I think some women are the most angry of all of them at her and wonder if they are jealous which is sick.”
Yes, they are. They are not jealous of what actually happened to the victim. They envy the *attention* a victim receives from others. I have witnessed this more than once.
It sparked in a group consisting of both the predator narcissist and the victim narcissist. Together they outed some of the predator narcissists to gain their position in power and money. Different angels, but for the same reasons.
Some of the victims in front of the #metoo campaign sure are narcissists, and a Greater, like Angelina Jolie, used it to strenghten er position also as a victim in the case against her ex-husband.
Charlize Theron, another Greater, never took part in the front line, but knew her place by signing a letter on the imbalance of power, and strenghten her position that way in the Hollywood «Ponzi scheme».
HG, from what I’ve been learning on your sight, it seems to me that Weinstein would be a lesser. Very crude and not finessed, a bully. Obviously there is the imbalance of power, but there seems to have been smarter handlers doing the covering up and creating the traps. At some point as you are saying, a higher functioning narc decided there’d be some benefit in exposing Weinstein, maybe even someone in his inner circle, perhaps his brother. Weinstein and even Spacey. Too, seem too clumsy and obvious in their abuse whereas I see a greater as you never even saw them coming. Not all lessers are living paycheck to paycheck, they can even be a wealthy Weinstein, if I’m absorbing the info correctly.
Wow! Very interesting- and I have had many of those thoughts but dare not express them in public- as yes I think many people have been ‘abused’– and some others– Well, let me say if someone touched my elbow or knee I would not consider that a sexual assault…. that is just me! However, I believe the victim narcs are the ones running with this. They get attention, oh so sorry for you– public attention. I was abused as a child and I prefer not to talk about it- dwell on it —share it- give it anymore energy than it already had.
Interesting!
So you’re saying one way of being able to tell who is the victim narcissist is by seeing who gained their own independence and money…but didn’t speak out until it was trendy?
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