Valentine Venom – Part Two
And so to today, Valentine’s Day.
It was time for Gillian to be punished for her three prior transgressions where she had wounded me.
Gillian who thinks she is far more capable in her position as head of her department than she actually is. Gillian who adopts the role of involved mentor, caring boss, attentive listener and champion of the oppressed.
Bullshit.
All part of her facade and I saw through it a long time ago.
To read on and understand what happens when an Ultra Narcissist has a Mid Range Narcissist in his sites, just use the link below.
133 thoughts on “Valentine Venom – Part Two”
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I enjoyed reading this. I have a victim MR female narc in the office, who is relatively effective in manipulating people around her. Some have realized she can be difficult but nobody gives importance to it and they continue to be manipulated by her. I avoid her. It has been interesting to observe her reactions towards me. I just want her to leave. Unfortunately, that is not going to happen.
I have another female Angel with a dirty face narc at work but at least she is in another country. Life in the office would be much better without those two.
Hey HG,
Do you work for a Corporation that happens to be in a finance type field? Is it International, but the Head Quarters is here in the states?
To some extent. No, it is not head quartered in the USA.
That gives a very British Don Draper-esque quality to you. Tania is like your Joan. lol
Hg approves.
I am taking notes about who you are. No one else is paying attention. They are busy crossing their Emotional Seas, or figuring themselves out. I also work in finance. It is a treat you blogged so much, this Vday. This Super and Midrange got to you. XOXO
Catherine, thank you for sharing your experience. I am glad you are feeling stronger. Yes, I totally understand where you are coming from. I too feel at times that because I never spoke up and stood up for myself, it would feel even more like defeat to simply walk away without speaking up first and, as HG says, giving him a piece of my mind or sounding off. But then again, this is emotional thinking speaking, so, perhaps, as SuperXena emphasized, we should first reach zero impact and then see what we want to do at that time when we are more likely to listen to logic rather than emotions. Very best to you on your journey of healing.
Insatiable Learner,
thanks for your kind reply. I think too that it’s wise to wait a bit longer; if I send that letter I will need to be certain of wanting to do it and I’m still not sure.
All the best to you too in your healing! It’s such a privilege to be let into the domains of HG and to heal in this kind of dynamic we’re part of here where both sides get their say. I’m grateful for all the shared stories here. Hugs!
I rather prefer looking at the contents of this post than giving an interpretation or a moral value to it. I find this approach more useful .
This post is a clear cut example of how the narcissistic pillars of a Mid range narcissist can be toppled in “one fell of a sweep ” in the seek of revenge:
I can detect the toppling of several narcissistic pillar with just “one” movement: i.ex.: status, entitlement,superiority,omnipotence and most of all attention seeking.
As this example shows, this can effectively be done by a narcissist (lacking empathy and remorse) who:
1. Is aware of his/her narcissism
2. Has knowledge of how other narcissist schools function by long term observations and interactions knowing exactly which pillars have to be toppled.
3. Has a high degree of calculation
It will be harder for an empath (or a non-narcissist) to do this but not impossible if:
1. The empath has really reached the point of Zero Impact. Being this the sine qua non condition.( In case of retaliation from the narcissist bouncing back if the narcissist gets to know who is behind the blows).
2. The empath has obtained enough knowledge on NPD to detect precisely which pillars to attack for that specific narcissist spotting which school he/she belongs to.
This will require from the empath a lot of planning( to be able to remain anonymous and not be discovered being the one behind these blows deployed to the narcissist)observation,learning and most of all a change in mind set in order to reach Zero Impact.
Not an easy task for the empath, something that could be risky if not having the skill and knowledge to do it properly.
I think the contents of this post would be more educational and giving if one reads the book Revenge!
An excellent analysis.
Thank you HG…
*typo* I believe the correct expression in English ( Macduff’s exact words)is:” in one fell swoop ”
Dear Mr Tudor,
I’m in the midst of reading your “Revenge” book and have just read all the pillars. I can see where your at and why! After reading your works, its starting to make sense as it all falls into place. There’s much to absorb! Are all greater elites like you, or are you the absolute exception? To see both sides of the spectrum so intimately and convey it, is very rare indeed!
Do you plan to expand, become openly famous, or remain status quo?
Can we help you in any way, for all your help?
Kindly
Bubbles
I am an Ultra. Greaters are similar as they see both sides also, however the extent of that will vary – I have focussed on doing so through a variety of methods, therefore my insight is more extensive.
Superxena
Completely agree with your post and Revenge is an excellent book (and guide for the few who have acheived zero impact).
It is NA! Reading it gives also understanding of why a revenge campaign is not for everyone and the importance of defining the “why” , the ultimate aim of doing it be fore even considering doing it.
SuperXena, this is a great insight. Zero Impact is indeed the sine qua non for any revenge that may be undertaken. The so-called catch 22 is, however, once zero impact is reached, a lot of times, there is no longer any desire to pursue anything. There is just indifference. The narc ceases to matter at all. He becomes inconsequential. I am speaking from my experience as I was briefly entangled with another narc, not the one who brought me here. I am at zero impact with him and I just don’t care to expend any energy on him at all. Conversely, I feel both anger and still a lot of care and affection for the most recent narc. I was in a unique position that I could have really inflicted a substantial blow on his seduction of the new IPPS (I was not the previous IPPS. I was never the IPPS at all). He would not have expected anything of that nature from me because he sees me as loyal and I would have had a greater chance of being believed unlike anything the “crazy” ex could have said and did say. I also could have tried to help the ex in her pursuit of justice but I stayed away and never got involved. I was too loyal to him even knowing what he was. I cared too much about him to act against him. To this day, I have remained loyal to him and never let on I know what is going on. I still care about him and that stands in the way of me trying to exert any revenge. It is not in my nature to hurt others, especially, those I care about. So this is indeed a catch 22. On the one hand, I wish I could avenge myself and teach him a few lessons but because I am not at zero impact with him, I can’t. If, however, I reach it, most likely, I will just not care to do so anymore.
Hello Insatiable Learner,
Thank you. I do not really see it as a dilemma ( catch 22) but rather as a process:
First you have to reach zero impact . Once you reach it if you realise that you do not need to start a revenge campaign against the narcissist, well then you do not need to. It works for you that way.
That is why it is important to be completely free of the emotional infection first and restitute your strength completely before even considering doing it. Otherwise you will be blinded by your emotions and the aim of doing it will be biased : the “wrong” one in the sense of it being unsuccessful and/or bouncing back at you.
There are many different cases and we do not know the atrocities some were submitted to and perhaps still are after their entanglement with a narcissist. It might be at the professional arena, might be children involved etc. It is important to define then the aim of the revenge campaign once you are free from the emotional infection.
As I understand, revenge is like “disintegrating ” the narcissist: making them fade away. Deploying blow after blow to wound the narcissist , cutting at the same time their fuel sources , making them weaker by preventing them to heal the wounds causing a fuel crisis that eventually makes them show who they really are and finally forcing them to go into oblivion. I believe this is the worst nightmare for a narcissist.
Perhaps for some it is the only way of preventing more damage to them and their children, to keep a job or simply the only way of surviving if the narcissist has a malignant obsession. Just some examples that came to my mind. I find it hard to believe that an empath does it just for the sake of wounding someone ( making her/him feel a relief or better by doing it) as opposed to a narcissist.
No Contact and raising the hoover bar is a form of revenge in itself.
… no contact and raising the hoover bar is a form of revenge in itself because you are removing some ” nourishing” ,cutting a source of fuel: You.
That certainly feels kind of good , doesn’t it?
Great posts. I am at zero impact with narc ex husband. It’s been over 10 years. A different narc encounter brought me here.
However, about once a year, I take an Internet peek to gauge the narc ex husband’s whereabouts, employment and marital status. His narc father had five ex wives, and I witnessed how he’d recycle the ‘crazy addicted money-stealing’ unaware ex wives for money and care as he aged. I guess I felt I needed to be on the lookout with his son despite the years that had passed. HG has confirmed they always feel they own us.
I’m not sure if my peeking nullifies my zero impact status from a Puritan stance, but I will say it does provide almost empirical evidence of everything written here by HG. There have been nearly a dozen job changes and civil court cases. The writings in the court system indicate an awareness of what they are dealing with, at a minimum deep-pocket ambulance chasing as a passenger in the vehicle of narc personal injury lawyer. It’s delightfully entertaining, especially when read from HG’s writings. Oh the basking glow of fuel as he portrays himself as victim in a neck brace, also suing for psychological damages to his poor wife and child having had to witness what he suffered.
The peeking is also a catch 22. I then ponder if I should speak up since some person’s whole life and livelihood is at stake. I then try to turn my time elsewhere, like getting the tea stains out of the fine bone china cups.
Insatiable Learner,
That’s a good point you have there and something that’s on my mind all the time right now. If the timing is not right until you’ve hit zero impact and you then feel so indifferent towards your ex that all those thoughts of revenge don’t matter anymore; will you live to regret it? Will you regret not having that final say? Probably not I guess. That’s the awaited for healthy way of going about your life and getting on with it without dwelling on the past. But still, we usually end up regretting things we haven’t done, not those we actually did?
I’m six months out of my relationship and I feel much stronger most of the time and I’m not into revenge per se, I have no wish to expose my narc to others or to act in any vengeful way, but I can’t give up the thought of sending him a letter telling him what he is and what he did to me. The letter wouldn’t in the end be for him; it would be for my sake entirely. Basically just to tell him that he made me believe I was the problem for years when it’s obvious that he was the real problem. I’m scared I will regret not sending this letter if I end up not doing it; I was like you always loyal to him and I hardly ever voiced my opinion; I would consider myself weak if I just let it go now even though I know that the strength in this case may rather lie in not doing anything. It’s a dilemma.
Hello Catherine,
I think we are talking about two different things.
Revenge ( as I understand it ) is mainly wounding and cutting the sources of supply. This can be done at two different levels:
1. Micro level: by cutting YOUR source of supply through No Contact
2. Macro level: cutting as many sources of supply and wounding the narcissist with the aim of making her/him weak and eventually causing a fuel crisis. This process is explained on the book and as far as I understood it has to be done without the narcissist knowing that you are not behind it and it requires a lot of preparation.
Sending a letter to him is exactly the opposite!
You will give him fuel AND the possibility of hoovering you back just for keeping you hanging on .
It seems to me that your need of sending him a letter and your feeling of you regretting later on not doing that, is a sign that you are still emotional. When you say that you are doing it for your own sake is maybe an excuse because what you really want is getting closure from him? You can do your own closure without him!
Sending him a letter won’t help because:
1. If he is not aware of his NPD he will not understand.
2. If he is aware he will never admit it.
In any case , sending a letter is not revenge..it will have a negative effect on you. No sending it is a sign of strenght..
Hello SuperXena eller hej från grannlandet,
Thank you for you reply. Yes, you’re right, I might confuse that kind of revenge from my personal need for finally standing up for myself once and for all. I do know that I’m still too early on in my recovery process (soon seven months yey!) not to be emotional at all, but there’s nothing in me that want him back again. I’ve been no contact all the time except for one slip and I don’t know how to express this but I’ve never been allowed boundaries or integrity either as a child or with him so for me a carefully composed letter with as little emotion as possible to tell him that I know what was done to me and that he hasn’t succeeded in breaking me would strangely enough mean the world to me and would possibly be the fuel I need to reclaim myself. It’s a kind of need for closure of course, but I would certainly not wait for any reply from him; he’ll be denied it; and the communication will be as one dimensional as our whole relationship was; he’s blocked and he’ll stay blocked. Anyway, I’ll wait a bit longer.
Kramar!
Halloj Catherine,
You are going the right direction and taking the right decision by waiting to send the letter. It is a very wise move. It is good that you are assimilating all the information given here and that you can read the experiences of others that corroborate this process.
I felt compelled to comment your post because what I wrote to you is based on my own experience. And what happened to me is exactly what is described here on many articles and books.
I understand how important it is for you to write that letter .
I made the big mistake of sending a letter (similar as the one you are thinking to send)ending the relationship after the first year with my ex( 6 years as IPPS of a narc of the upper school).
To make it short, I still was emotional when I did it although I knew I didn’t want him in my life, resulting on him hoovering me back into the formal relationship with a “new” golden period repeating this cycle on and on and on for the next 5 years until I finally escaped and worked for a long time on my emotional infection resisting his hoovers by proxy.
If they see the chance and if they sense you still have any feelings for them( if you send the letter it would equate for him as you having some sort of feelings) ….the risk of you been dragged again into this painful rollercoaster is huge! They just can’t resist any possibility of getting fuel.
Wait a little bit more until you feel strong again .You do not loose anything by waiting and you can win a lot: yourself .
Later on you can find a way of expressing what you want but maybe in another way?
The most indicative sign of this emotional detachment and strength is when your thoughts are somewhere else and not on him. When you feel that you love yourself back again.
Kramar tbx
Hej SuperXena,
And thank you so much for sharing your experiences; you’re so right in saying that what I have to win by sraying no contact is myself. I will wait; I’m not in a hurry with sending him anything and I feel sorry for you that you were drawn in again into the formal relationship. I realise I might think I’m stronger than I am and it’s a good thing to heal without any contact with him whatsoever; every day moving forward counts. These kind of destructive relationships destroy so much of inner peace and calm; as well as the trust in who we are. I’ll concentrate on filling my own void now and later on I’ll see.
Kramar från mig
Revenge is my fave HG book bcuz it really made clear the pillars. Now I can run through them mentally when I need to do any sort of inventory on the narc
Vulturous Virtuoso! 🖤
HG
I enjoyed your Valentine gift. Thank you.
HG,
‘hence a further reason why I have had no compassion to engage with her in an intimate manner.’
I’m confused. Is this a typo?
Compulsion
This is the first entry of yours which to me, makes you sound a bit like a victim. We (the readers) have taken on the role of you (HG) in listening and counseling you through a consultation.( even though it ends in delightful revenge for the victim (you) ) I don’t know. Your tone has changed slightly.
No, what I have done is detail the narrative of the events combined with the description of the dynamics using the now familiar terminology. That’s the difference.
Well done.
Nothing wrong with a prank, you didn’t damage her life.
I feel sorry for Toby/Terry more than her.
HG, I am curious. Could you tell right away she was a Mid Range, as her behaviour comes across ostentatious?
It wasn’t immediately apparent that she was Mid Range but I recognised she was likely to be of our kind and it did not take long before all of the relevant indicators presented themselves. Her ostentatious and manufactured behaviours indeed being one.
I gave the flying monkey the Valentine Bomb A Court Date the immigrant Narc gets an Anniversary Gift of the Same Except Guests from the I.C.E and E.R.U will be the guests of Honor While live entertainment charted will be the Display of bullets hitting the Narc By The Monkeys court Evidence which clearly show the Narc to Be a fraud at his interview with DHS.the Guilt finding of the Monkey Aka the dirty faced Angel is the bomb and clealy exposes the Narc as a guilty of Moral turpitude with a bare behind hope he has a butt courtier he will need one
Countries do not mess around with this type of FRAUD players perhaps I should Pack him a Soap on a rope_This evidence Proves he violated his conditional terms yp [rove the Bona- fide Marriage to Authorities lied about everything and he will have presented to him a copy of his fraud signed by him on a hand written statement and a stack of supporting evidence that proves his guilt as well as the accessory to the crime bythe monkey as in willfull intentional partcipation with the Narc to deceive Homeland Security Both of which incur Mighty Hefty Fines and Prison Sentences until it is cleared for him tho return to his country after the war ehere ge will neber be eligibke to immigrat anywhere again BOMB VOYAGE is my version of Bon voyage I won’t elaborate the package by a bow embellishment
I cant say i feel sorry for gillian but i also know that tania should watch her back bc she could be in the line of fire. Either thru future devaluments from either HG or gillian. Also she just sided with HG and is owned now. Not a good position to be in. Its better imo to stay neutral and not get actively involved. Office politics have to be the most stressful 😣
HG already owned her, narc affair, and she is an NISS so she will experience an elongated golden period: fury is capped, she is painted white and is part of his facade, plus, she is less likely to go stale and, remember, HG can be protective of his assets, so she may be afforded “protection” from Gillian. Think: Mafia Lieutenant.
Hi k…first and foremost never trust a narcissist. That i learned on here long ago. Tania will be safe as long as she goes along with what HG wants which is why she is now owned. The first time she is in a situation where shes not comfortable doing what shes told she will face consequences and more than likely her job.
You bring up the mafia and there is a prime example they turn on each other all the time and in true narc fashion there are no bonds or true loyalties.
Remember were appliances to be used and discarded when we no longer serve our purpose.
narc affair
I have a sneaking suspicion that she has been one of HG’s appliances for a while. If he gets a cup of coffee from you every day, you are one of his appliances (NITS). However, you have a point the, the Mafia is very narcissistic and she is expendable and nobody likes swimming with the fishes while wearing a pair of cement shoes.
I think HG reads Tania well enough that he won’t try to push her cooperation beyond the comfort level. She’s useful in multiple ways, and he doesn’t want to disable a working appliance.
Where Gillian is concerned, HG understood that thanks not only to Tania’s loyalty to him but also to Gillian’s treatment of Tania and, above all, Tania’s team, the participation would be not just willing and discreet but downright enthusiastic.
Never, NEVER diss secretaries and receptionists. They are gatekeepers. You’re better annoying the Dean of a College than the Dean’s secretary.
This is something the Gillians of the world never grasp. They think themselves wizards of office politics, but they only understand the visible hierarchy. It’s like the porters at Oxbridge well into the 1920s; making an enemy of one could make someone’s university experience a world of pain.
HG, I hate it when you hurt sweet little empaths, but learning how you squash a mid-ranger is a treat.
Someone has been paying attention.
Jess
Thanks for the laugh! I am working on my postgraduate thesis: Narcissistic Abuse, The Antecedent to The Empath’s Revenge.
Hahaha, nice one HG!
I enjoyed this! One for the admins and of course, HG! Those plastic Gillians of the world need some toying with from time to time. It was fun reading a greater getting on over a midrange.
I bet you are a blast around the office.
✌️😂✌️
A blast indeed. Thermonuclear.
Awesome! You are our champion against lessers and mid rangers. Long Live to the Tudor Empire!
Hi HG. Would you ever consider targeting Tanya in any shape or form? I mean, as a Super-Empath she must have fuel galore for you. Or, do you already get the fuel you need from her by turning her into your co-conspirator/flying monkey? Just curious about the dynamics between the two of you.
She has already been targeted and ensnared as a NISS Lieutenant.
Hi HG, if Gillian ever got the whiff of the fact that her humiliation was your brain-child, from your experience, how would she react? Are mid-rangers capable of something similar to what you pulled on her or would she just huff, puff and try to blow your house down playing the victim card through her smear campaign against you?
And last, but not least, how far fetched would it be to expect you throwing Tanya to the wolves and blaming it all on her?
She would play the victim card and
(1) Look to curry support (and of course fuel) from her Coterie (and others where she felt confident she could) based on my actions and how hurtful it was. Thus she would tell all who will listen.
(2) Instigate some kind of complaint against me through the business and do her usual tactic of making it a gender/sex issue – hence a further reason why I have had no compulsion to engage with her in an intimate manner. I have no need to and a clear reason not to.
(3) She would try to strike back in some way – most likely trying to do so within the context of the business.
If I deemed it necessary Tania is expendable. It is highly unlikely that this will be necessary.
Excellent insight into the mischievous mind of Mercury. Fantastic, frightening fun (for whom?!) Mesmerising in any case.
Actually, I wondered if at some point you had rebuffed an amorous attempt on her part and that was the source of her disapproving your proposal?
I too appreciated the insight into the description of the wounding the most.. how wonderful it would be if you could access your magnificence yourself in these moments… I mean.. how much energy saved.. for more worthy pursuits?
I know. I should just give up.
No, I have not rebuffed her either.
“If I deemed it necessary Tania is expendable. It is highly unlikely that this will be necessary.” – HG Tudor
Don’t mess with Tania, HG, especially if she makes your coffee.
Ha ha I don’t drink coffee
I found myself thoroughly enjoying reading this. From your description of Gillian, to the planning of her “punishment.” It’s still putting a smile on my face when I think about all those people being surprised with gifts and her sitting there not understanding why her day did not go as planned.
Jolly good.
I work with people like this … the more I read the more I see it …
Narc on Narc retaliation. This was a stroke of pure genius on your part, HG! Well done on a brilliant victory.
Thank you.
Dear Mr Tudor,
Part 1 was grippingly nail biting, hence the popcorn 😂
I would’ve so conspired with you. That was absolutely brilliant! Fabulous idea! Win win situation all round.
You received fuel from her reaction, fuel from every recipient in your office, you’ve received fuel from your personal entourage, fuel from us …. all in all, a very fuel filled day … well done!
Happy VD Mr Tudor, you certainly made my day, loved it!❤️ 🌹
Thank you.
Nice fairy tale. And everybody who likes this is just as sick.
Hello mother.
Hello Mrs. Tudor. How are you today? Not that I care! Your son is amazing! No thanks to you!!
Is susi really mother and if so this isnt the first time I have seen you say that
No
HG- even tho it was a quite a busy day for me with not much time to wax depressive about the darn ex narc – I do appreciate that you “serviced” the site quite regularly across the emotionally charged Valentine’s day. It helped keep me positive seeing your posts /releases of essays- to me twas a bit of a “hand holding”- 🤚
Thank you!
I’m running to the pharmacy right now.
I thought it was epic, Susi.
Susi would you feel different if it was an Empath instead of HG?
It was a brilliant move on HGs part, Gillian reaped what she sowed and others benefited and had their day brightened, I would gather Tania made sure those that recieved gifts deserve them.
From my perspective, it is a fairy tale, because:
1) The villain was served (Gillian);
2) Another ‘villain’ (maybe a byronean anti hero could be a better ‘label, but anyway) was responsible for her fall, therefore the heroes remain unstrained – how convenient, right?
3) All employees got gifts, yay!
4) The people who beleive in Gillian’s façade had an oportunity to witness her true colours;
5) Gillian was wounded in her ego only, not physically or economically;
6) Mr Tudor healed his previous wounds by hurting another narc, therefore without the need to toy with/devalue empaths, co-dependents or doormats;
7) No animals were harmed during this production.
I like that 7) no animals were harmed and your word choice “production”.
Would you have done it, HG Tudor, without your audience here?
Can you post on the importance of an audience? Thank you.
It is not so much about an audience but having appliances to hand for the provision of fuel and thus in that respect a number of people who form an audience may be of importance, dependent upon their status in the fuel matrix and the fuel needs at that time.
I loved these new V-articles. Entertaining to say the least. There is still so much to learn. It is incredible that you can use an innocuous celebration such as V-day to draw fuel from all kinds of sources and to take revenge at the same time!
If Gillian’s targets knew it was you, they would be more than grateful. It is good to see that there is some justice in this world. I would have not expected it coming from a narcissist, though. But as you say, there is no loyalty among your Kind.
I ma pleased you liked them EB. Yes, the pleasure of the other recipients was a collateral consequence of Gillian’s richly deserved punishment.
hmmmmm…… I think you pushed this too far for me. Some credibility is lacking and your jealousy is far to obvious! You like her- and she is not interested………
Not at all. I am not envious of her and nor am I interested in her apart from gaining some fuel from her as a NISS that is tormented. She deserved it.
I realize you said Tania “hated” Gillian, but you know that line is thin for empaths. Besides, aren’t most women fickle in general? I think there’s some line about it being our prerogative or something.
But seriously, thank you for sharing what it felt like to experience Gillian’s attempts to belittle you, however futile they were. I can see how those triggers take you back to a time of innocence. For me, that was a very touching component to your story.
I sense you don’t often want sympathy there as it is likely a reminder of past pain, but this is what touches me most… thinking of how wounded we all are… how contempt can bring out our animalistic, self-defensive traits faster than our adrenaline can keep up.
I’m eager to learn more about how certain events trigger these wounds. And of course, I’m always open to being entertained by your mischievousness.
Brilliant! 😂
Now this is what I want to see. Narcissists targeting narcissists. Let the bitchy Mid-ranger weep in her cube.
Cue the violin…..
I’ve worked with my share of Gillians. So I can imagine that your revenge was as sweet as her misplaced candy. That was some pretty clever planning, HG, and I bet your concerted effort with Tania left her feeling pleased as well. Certainly, it would have been difficult to keep a straight face watching Gillian’s ego deflate before your eyes.
But I’m curious if your Super Empath accomplice felt guilty afterwards? That always seems to happen to us non-Greaters after a bit of time passes. And if so, how did The Great Conspirator console her?
Tania’s empathy towards those of her team that Gillian has belted assuaged any guilt that manifested.
I understand. Now I’m really looking forward to reading Revenge.
If I can lose the conscience for a few days, I’m gonna get him back, Tudor Style.
https://hips.hearstapps.com/sev.h-cdn.co/assets/cm/15/07/480×475/54dc7d8d35ab6_-_sev-grumpy-cat-fire-brimstone-lol-lgn.png?resize=480:*
Is it wrong that I was gloating a narc was getting served? HG, do you think Tania knows what Gillian is or does she simply dislike her for being a biatch towards her staff?
No.
She does not know.
She dislikes her, as you write, for being a “biatch” towards her staff.
Oh, HG, you rascal. Something has just dawned on me. This is the way a smear campaign works, isn’t it? You tell us a story about a big bad meany who did you wrong and we jump on board, partly because the person is supposedly a narc and partly because we like to correct the wrongdoing and put an empathic band-aid over your scraped ego-knee. Well played, sir, well played.
It is one way by which a smear campaign might well be deployed – the principles you have identified are applicable.
Of course it is not applicable in this instance because you do not know the individuals involved and nor do I require your band-aids.
Ha ha.. I find myself cheering you on HG. Way to go! In this case at least you hurt someone who hurts others. I’m on your side!
Next time I will let you know beforehand and you can come and cheerlead!
Please do and I certainly will! I’ll even do a dance for you;)
Me too, me too! Maybe you can install a nanny-cam.
Ha ha, time to open a pay-per-view channel.
Agreed! It has a very “Dexter’ like feel to it!
Hi Catherine,
“I’m scared I will regret not sending this letter if I end up not doing it; I was like you always loyal to him and I hardly ever voiced my opinion…”
I have been there too. I know how it feels. You have the right to voice your opinion.
” can’t give up the thought of sending him a letter telling him what he is and what he did to me…”
Written statements can be used against you, especially if you use accusatory statements (fuel). I do not recommend it. The narcissist will feel attacked and might sue you for libel. You will need evidence to prove that your accusations are true or at least you need to be sure that the narcissist will not choose litigation.
“The letter wouldn’t in the end be for him; it would be for my sake entirely. Basically just to tell him that he made me believe I was the problem for years …”
If so, IMO, there is a safe way of doing it. You can use non-defensive communication. This is a respectful way of interacting with other people by letting them know how their behaviour made you feel. If done correctly, there will be no fuel in it. But be aware that you will be provoking a hoover.
E B, thank you for your kind comment. I agree with you; the logical and reasonable thing to do would be lo let bygones be bygones, to move on with my life and let that be the end of it. I think however well I phrase it it will of course be fuel to him. I would also be mindful of not making any accusations that would involve being sued.
The thing is he really messed my head up; he abused me both emotionally and physically and I do have proof of the physical abuse even though I didn’t turn it over to the police; I also still have saved all his text messages that were sometimes really accusatory to their nature (he acted out in pathological jealousy a lot of the time) and I’ve attended therapy for six months soon so I don’t think he would dare to sue me; there’s too much proof; he’s really scared of his reputation being a somewhat public figure in my country. And I’m not thinking of going after him in that way; for me there’s no purpose in doing that. The letter I’ve written is very calm and academic in a way that I know will provoke him. It’s about standing up for myself once and for all; I never did. He played cat and mouse with me and I let him. I just want to say what I didn’t say then when I should have.
I’m still not free of emotion, but I wouldn’t take him back for anything he could ever offer me. I’m done with him for good; I don’t think I could face myself in the mirror if I ever went back to that abusive excuse for a man. And I’m waiting a while longer before sending it. Thank you again for thoughtful reply.
Hi Catherine,
Thank you for your reply. I did not know your ex was physically aggressive. Do you know where he is the fuel matrix? If he is a violent Lesser or a LMRN and you send him a letter, his fury might be ignited. I also noticed that Lessers do not read ‘long texts’ (more than 5 sentences 🙂 ). You have to protect yourself.
“…the logical and reasonable thing to do would be lo let bygones be bygones, to move on with my life and let that be the end of it…. ”
If you mean to ignore what you went through and move on with your life as if it did not happen, I disagree. Narcissistic abuse is traumatic. The physical wounds may have healed by now but not the emotional ones. Unless we work on our self-esteem and self-worth, we will continue feeling wounded by narcissists. Therapy is good. Six months is not a lot, IMO. I read that depending on how traumatic the abuse was, it could take two years or more to heal.
” It’s about standing up for myself once and for all; I never did. …I just want to say what I didn’t say then when I should have. ”
I know how it feels. Well-meant advice like writing letters and not sending them did not help me. It was quite the opposite: I accumulated more anger and frustration. Being passive, doing nothing and giving up on everything like a doormat as advised has never worked for me. So I decided to send those letters. It gave me a sense of strength and dignity after feeling powerless for so long. I was even able to restore some things I thought were lost. This showed me we are not powerless and helpless like narcissists want us to believe. But none of them were violent people.
I have used ‘non-defensive communication’ effectively with MRNs clients, suppliers and other business people at work without knowing what it was. NDC will not work with highly aggressive people, though.
EB- I feel the same way you did about reclaiming some power by actually sending a letter. My letter would not be an attack but more of a calm explanation of what I experienced and where I’m at. I am curious what ever came of your letters -did any of them reply to you in any way?
That is why everyone suggests I do not send a letter to my ex… (4months NC) They are all concerned she will try to reengage. And They think I will be playing into her hands which at this point I don’t care it’s sad if that’s how she gets off. I don’t necessarily think she will engage at this point (she has new supply) and I am not the same person- and I believe she she knows that I will not fall for her lies and crap anymore.
Hello Kathleen,
4 months NC… It seems to me it is still too early. If your emotions do not let you think rationally, you could be hoovered back and it will be worse. Some people believe they can deal with the narcissist’s hoovers a few months after going NC and then they realize they are not as strong as they had thought.
Yes, they hoovered me through new email accounts so I blocked them and created new filters. Since then I have not heard from them again, although they have my home address. By sending the letter we enter “The Spheres of Influence”:
http://narcsite.com/2017/04/18/the-spheres-of-influence/
There are different articles about hoovers and the book “Black Hole” is very good too.
To avoid some of the hoovers, you will have to block email accounts and telephone numbers and create email filters *before* sending the letter. If she still cannot reach you, she will try to hoover you by proxy. She will use her Coterie and Lieutenants, people you may (not) know yet. You will have be prepared for these kinds of hoovers too.
In his book “Escape”, HG writes about dealing with ‘Boundary Violations’. I find what he writes about effective and ineffective ways of responding very important.
An effective way of responding would be to say how the narcissist’s behavior make us feel. We speak about his behavior and our feelings. This can be used for letters too. The example he gives is non-defensive communication, which is a respectful way of verbal and written communication made in a calm and neutral way.
This is not about expecting the narcissist to change or to accept responsibility for his actions. We do it for ourselves, to feel better that we can speak about our feelings after being silenced and gaslighted for so long.
If you are not sure about what to do and what could happen, I would suggest you consult HG before taking further steps.
E B,
thank you for replying! Your advice is good and solid and I’m carefully considering if I even should send that letter. At least I have time to consider it now; all decisions made within the relationship were always impulsive and due to him putting huge amounts of stress and pressure on me; this time I’ll try to get it right.
I think my narc is an Upper Lesser in narcissistic terms; my therapist labels him a narcissistic psychopath from what I’ve told her. He’s aggressive and I base the school on that; even though many of his actions have been very cunning and schemed. He likes mind games and power plays in a passive aggressive way more than physical violence; although he erupted in physical abuse at the end of our time together. I also expierenced him as quite sadistic at times. Still he’s really careful when it comes to his reputation so I think as long as I send a letter to him and only to him to tell him that I know what he did to me I won’t have any problem. I’m not going to expose him to others. And even though he always used to complain about me using what he called “academic terms” and he’s not into reading a lot he’s obsessed with control so I know he’ll read it. He probably won’t admit to it though, but I won’t be around to have to listen to that anyway.
And no, I don’t mean to ignore the soul destroying experience I’ve been through. I’m intent on making this journey worthwhile for me and to walk away from this stronger and with more self knowledge than ever. I meant it by way of considering if I should send the letter or not.
I understand how you felt about sending the letters; and I admire you for doing it; that’s exactly what I think it would mean to me too. To seize some power and regain som dignity; it would be part of my journey with myself, nothing else. I don’t consider him anymore; after that letter being hypothetically sent I don’t want to have anything to do with him ever again. That insight feels good right now. So thank you again for taking your time to write to me and for sharing your experiences; I’m so grateful.
Hi Catherine,
“my therapist labels him a narcissistic psychopath … He’s aggressive…many of his actions have been very cunning and schemed. He likes mind games and power plays in a passive aggressive way more than physical violence; although he erupted in physical abuse at the end of our time together. I also experienced him as quite sadistic at times. ”
Dealing with cunning, violent, sadistic psychopaths like your ex is not the same as dealing with a Somatic or Cerebral MRNs. Most narcissists are MRN. The narcissists I sent the letter to were neither sadistic nor physically aggressive. I was not dealing with psychopaths.
Please do not underestimate what your ex is capable of. Psychopaths are dangerous. Their behaviour is unpredictable and impulsive. They cannot always control their behaviour.
“I’m not going to expose him to others. ”
I know, Catherine, but it does not matter who you are or what you will (not) do. It is more about what he thinks that you are capable of doing, how he perceives you. Many believe other people are just like them and that they are out to get them. You cannot control his behaviour by telling him that will not expose him. He would not believe you and would be convinced you will. It would be worse.
If he was physically aggressive once, he will do it again if he has the chance to do it. Please stay away from him and protect yourself.
Lol. It’s probably horrible of me to laugh at this. But I did. And thinking of the other people who received unexpected surprises that they may not have otherwise, and the pleasure they must have felt, puts a smile on my face. But.. it was cruel. Then again if Gillian is a mid range narcissist, did she kind of reap what she sowed??
HG,
Was this today?
What a soap opera!
I hope that should I ever apply to your workplace, that I not get the job!!!
It was.
I believe you write your articles well in advance and had this storyline envisioned to run today knowing it would be easy to encapsulate everyone’s attention with the raw emotion of it being Valentine’s Day. Do I believe there is a Gillian that is a repeated thorn in your side at work? Yes. Do I believe after 3 woundings, you made sure she got her comeuppance? Yes. I’m not sure if I buy that this was a real story in real time playing out on 2/14/18. It may have even happened on 2/14/17 (last year). I think you used this annoying holiday to incorporate a great learning opportunity showing two narcs colliding in a work place setting which has been an article request by several readers for quite some time.
No matter what the reason, it works and it’s really strong. It gives a great point of reference to help people who may be oblivious to this type of colleague / co-worker to see them differently and maybe alter the way they behave or more importantly react around them.
First part was prepared ahead as I was engaged in planning. Second part was written after the event occurred.
HG- I get you are pissed with her- but really it is beneath you to let it get to you like this– she is beneath you and you know it and said it. Let it go (or is that just an empathic thing?)
You either treat your enemy well or put them to the sword, anything in between invites problems.
Brilliant!
HG – that is so awesome…I am totally embroidering that saying and hanging it on my wall!!!l
I look forward to seeing a picture of your work.
Im so glad i dont work in an environment like that. Basically a narcpit. Narc against narc ughhh
Congrats on seeing her miserable what a win! 👍
When you play with fire… you have to expect to get burned. I recall saying to myself- kathleen-this is dangerous-someone’s going to get hurt and quite likely me. And yep. The N doesn’t get hurt. Gillian seems to play hardball and well, sometimes you strike out.
Are you sure your contempt for Gillian isn’t caused by sexual tension and her refusal to bang you? Also your jealousy for Toby/Tony/Ted (Tubby?!) ?
No I am not sure. I am certain. I have no interest in that from her nor have I ever.
I have no envy for T.
Don’t feel sorry for Gillian, that’s like feeling sorry for Cathy or Heathcliff. No cards or flowers for me, but no hoovering either very happy.
Never disrespect the receptionist!
Indeed.
Funny you mention Cathy and Heathcliff. I always disliked them.
I’ll let you know when Admin Assistant’s Day is coming up in April so you can treat Tania to an extra special treat USA style. She earned it and it will get you more brownie points with her for the next time. lol
Very interesting blow-by-blow of a Mid-Ranger in crisis done in the office setting.
Nicely done!
Thank you Clarece.
I enjoyed this story very much HG! I’m happy to know I’m not the only one not getting anything for Valentines Day! Especially when it’s someone like that! 🌹Happy Valentines Day HG, and everyone else on the blog. 😘
Feliz dia de San Valentin FM1T :). Belated but from heart.
Brilliant, HG! A Greater sticking it to a mid-ranger is a beautiful thing! Perhaps, you can start providing revenge services to us empaths to teach lessons to lessers and mid-rangers most of us got entangled with. Just like you take delight in weaponizing empaths against narcs, I would take delight in seeing narcissists tearing into other narcissists!
I can and do explain how to do this, after explaining how it has to be done at the right time and that such action is not always suitable for everybody.
Then again there are those who can’t bear the thought of someone working so painstakingly and with tireless precision and effort to succeed in perpetrating a scheme ,not to be compensated for their efforts that seems so un_just “Victorus aut Mortis”
Ha ha ha ha ha. Love it.
“Tania was instructed that all deliveries of bouquets for Gillian should have the card removed and replaced with an alternative one (suitably mysterious and always anonymous) and then delivered to a different recipient in the business. All other gifts would be checked to ensure there was no reference which would cause a problem and once suitably vetted either retained by Tania and her team or sent to somebody else in the business to delight them instead.”
Victory for HGT!
Glad you enjoyed it Sniggers.
I cannot help sniggering and laughing when your comedic talent presses on my nucleus accumbens.
I always like to be rewarding Sniggers.
The day after Valentine’s Day you’ve decided to behave like a turdor. Well Mr., I won’t kick a fresh Turdor on a hot day.
Meaningless.
Okay.