What Am I To The Narcissist?
For those who have become ensnared with our kind, it is a frequent question to wonder what you are to the narcissist. Of course, the short answer is that you are an appliance that is there to provide fuel first and foremost and there may also be the acquisition of traits from you and residual benefits. However, those that have begun to understand the narcissistic dynamic to some extent want to know how they have been regarded by the narcissist in terms of that dynamic. Of those questions, these are the ones which appear most often:-
Was I a primary source?
I don’t think I was devalued, why was that?
Have I been discarded?
Why did he not commit to me?
How has he moved on to somebody else so quickly?
Why did I have such a short golden period?
I feel like I am always hanging on for him, why is that?
It is typically the case that those questions are usually asked by someone who is an Intimate Partner Secondary Source (“IPSS”) although that person may not actually realise that this is the case. This article will discuss the IPSS and some of the peculiarities which arise with being an appliance placed in this role.
By way of brief re-cap, someone who is a primary source may be an intimate partner or a non-intimate partner. In the vast majority of cases the primary source is an intimate partner, thus a spouse, partner, boyfriend/girlfriend. You spend most of your time together and this arrangement occurs so that we are able to draw fuel from you each and every day, that fuel is of a high calibre (because of the greater emotional connection you have to us by reason of being a primary source and also because of your empathic traits). Occasionally the primary source is not an intimate partner and is usually then a family member.
A secondary source is a colleague, a friend or a family member. The secondary source will be seduced so that their loyalty and fuel is secured. Of course this is not done in a romantic fashion but through charm, pleasantry, doing favours and handing out benefits so that the appliance is drawn to the narcissist and is then installed in the position of secondary source.
A secondary source has an elongated golden period. This is because of the following factors:-
- The narcissist only draws on the secondary source’s fuel intermittently (compared to drawing on the fuel of the primary source);
- The secondary source is usually more compliant and does what the narcissist wants because the demands made of him or her are not as extensive as those made on the primary source;
- The fuel provided by the secondary source stays fresher and more potent for longer because it is only drawn on intermittently;
- The secondary source is less likely to challenge,wound or defy the narcissist
Accordingly, a secondary source will enjoy a lengthy golden period. They may not be ever be devalued. If they fail to provide fuel, become disloyal and fail to do what the narcissist wants, they may be devalued but usually they will be immediately discarded. This is because it serves the narcissist better to remove the ‘rotten apple’ from hanging around and polluting the minds of other members of the coterie. It is also easy enough to seduce a new secondary source or turn to other existing ones. Thus, where a secondary source becomes unreliable they are usually discarded. Devaluation may only occur where an example needs to be made of the secondary source (this is usually more of the case for colleagues and family members as there is a connection beyond friendship) or the narcissist feels a need for the negative fuel and does not regard the devaluation as likely to damage the façade.
All secondary sources commence their relationship with the narcissist from a non-intimate position and there they may stay for a very long time. Some however are promoted to the position of IPSS.
This happens when the narcissist is devaluing their primary source and is looking to replace them. The promotion of a secondary source to that of IPSS means that we are considering whether you are worthy of then being promoted to a IP primary source and the existing one is discarded.
When this happens there is also the likelihood of somebody else occupying the role of IPSS. We often have more than one as in effect we are holding auditions for those who may be promoted to the position of primary source. This results in several scenarios arising.
- The existing primary source, let us say this is a wife, is being devalued. The narcissist embarks on affair with another woman who is the IPSS. She may have been someone he has known as secondary source friend for some time and has recently promoted, or he may have approached her and become a secondary source friend who is very quickly promoted to IPSS. In this dynamic you, as the IPSS, may know about the wife and she is smeared to you, she is abusive, unloving and so on. You are seduced and your responses convince the narcissist that you will make an effective primary source so the existing primary source is discarded and you are then installed as the replacement primary source.
- The scenario is the same as above however there are periods during your seduction as IPSS when the narcissist goes quiet. You may think that you are being devalued. You are not. As explained above, the narcissist regards a secondary source as an intermittent provider of fuel and therefore when this happens it is likely that a Respite Period has been granted to the existing primary source, thus the narcissist allows a golden period again, he is preoccupied with the existing primary source and you are kept on ice until the Respite Period ends. The devaluation of the existing primary source continues and your seduction continues once again. Eventually, the narcissist deems you worth of promotion, you are embedded and the existing primary source is discarded and you are installed as her replacement. This may take months or even years. During this period, if you accept the periods of quiet without complaint, there will be no comeback from the narcissist. If however you question what is going on, you will most likely be subjected to future-faking from the narcissist in order to maintain your interest. He will talk about needing to sort divorce arrangements out, or how the house is taking too long to sell, the children need to be sorted out, he hasn’t told his parents yet, it is not a good time for the soon to be ex-spouse as her father has died, it is her birthday next month, it is nearly Christmas and so on. This future faking is done because the narcissist regards you as too valuable to drop and wants to keep you in place as you are earmarked for promotion, but he has not yet decided that you are worthy of such promotion and thus has allowed the existing primary source Respite Periods until he is convinced you are a worthwhile replacement.
- The same scenario as two above but there is another IPSS. In order to better our chances of securing an excellent replacement primary source, we are devaluing the existing primary source and we are cultivating leads with at least two IPSS. Thus, we spend the occasional wonderful weekend with you but make various excuses as to how we can only see you once a month. This is being done for two reasons. The first is because we must make time for the ongoing devaluation of the primary source and also to spend time with the other IPSS who is being cultivated. The second reason is to test your resolve. If you reject such an arrangement then we will conclude that you lack certain traits that would make you a good primary source, such as you challenge us too readily, you lack ‘stickability’ and you are not responding to our charm and seduction as deeply as we had hoped or planned. In such an instance our attention will switch to the other IPSS but you are unlikely to be discarded. This is because you have shown potential, provided fuel and therefore we may as well keep you on ice to call on for fuel or to triangulate with the existing primary source and/or the other IPSS in order to satisfy our fuel needs.
If you do not challenge this arrangement then it is a straight fight between you and the other IPSS as to who will eventually be crowned as primary source. You may know about the devalued primary source but you probably will not know about the other IPSS. You will both be tested, so you can expect cancelled arrangements, occasional bouts of odd acts and distant behaviours. These are not acts of devaluation but are rather tests during your seduction to ensure that you are made of the right stuff to be promoted to primary source and also that you are better than your competing IPSS. The nature of this competition is such that you may be in front one month and thus things will seem to be going well with us and then you will be behind your competitor the next month so things will be less pleasant. You are jockeying for position and all the while we are obtaining fuel as we ascertain who will be the best person to be promoted. This could go on for years as you are strung along.
If you then learn that the primary source has finally been discarded but somebody else is being paraded around as our girlfriend and you cannot understand how that has happened, because there is still (albeit minimal) contact with you, then you have lost the race to become primary source. This other person seems to have come out of nowhere but they have not. They have been cultivated behind the scenes and we have decided that they would make the best primary source. The existing one has been discarded, the competitor IPSS who you knew nothing about (or might just have been referred to as a ‘friend’) is installed as primary source.
Even when this happens, you are still unlikely to be discarded because we still see value as keeping you as a secondary source. There has been some investment in you and if you do not cause a problem for us, you will be retained and at some future point there will be a resumption of the relationship to draw fuel, to use you to triangulate with the now being discarded primary source and even to consider installing you as primary source. This latter consideration arises where you would be a good primary source, but the competitor was deemed even better. However, once that competitor is devalued, your status as a good potential primary source is revisited. Unless of course another competitor IPSS is sought and this one is deemed better than you.
If you rail against this treatment as you find yourself side-lined when you expected to become the primary source, but some usurper has appeared instead, this may be tolerated for the negative fuel and the purposes of triangulation. If however you become problematic whereby you may expose us, causes problems with the façade and interfere with the newly installed primary source, you can expect to be devalued, smeared and discarded.
4. You may find that there is no primary source. You are referred to as partner or girlfriend but your engagement with us is intermittent, excuses are made as to why we cannot see more of you, there are occasional periods of silence and you are strung along in this position for some time, unsure of what you actually are. Are you our girlfriend or just a friend with benefits? When this happens it is the case that we will have several IPSS on our books. The combination of all these interests and the attendant fuel means that there is no pressing need for a primary source and we are content to alternate between the various IPSS until we establish one which is installed as primary source.
The IPSS does not experience the standard template of seduction-devaluation-discard and this is why many commentators fail to explain our behaviours effectively to someone who is an IPSS. The narcissistic dynamic is different. The reason for this is that you are effectively placed in limbo. You may not be good enough to be promoted to the position of primary source but you are too valuable to be cast to one side and thus the dance continues for as long as you will allow it without wounding or challenging us.
Those who do not understand our kind tend to fall into the trap of thinking that we are some kind of commitment-phobe and will dole out erroneous advice to you in terms of making you try to bring about that commitment. All this will do is cause you further consternation as the decision is ours, not yours.
If you find yourself in the position of engaging with somebody who treats you well, but only does so intermittently, who occasionally seems to test you (and it is often difficult to spot this) and issues lots of promises about what will happen in the future but there is never any delivery, there is every chance that you are an IPSS entangled with one of our kind.
42 thoughts on “What Am I To The Narcissist?”
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Wow! My life for the past 14 years! Does it ever end? Can the relationship be fixed or will it forever be this way as long as I’m around him?
It does not end from our perspective, but there is much you can do to make it appear as if it has effectively ended. No it cannot be fixed.
What happens to the IPSS if they escape during seduction and go no contact? I locked down my Facebook account but still ended up with two odd requests (friend of friend former employees that I don’t talk to) immediately after my name was involved with a third party mutual friend.
You may be hoovered further dependent on the needs of the narcissist and the state of his fuel matrix. If you are a Candidate IPSS expect some fairly significant hoovering. If you are Shelf, it is going to be less intense, but as ever it is dependent on the HT and the HEC being met.
HG- how does a narc perceive no contact by an ipss? Would he implement benign or malign hoovers if at all?
It depends on when it is done and what else is occurring in the fuel matrix. Malign hoovers are a possibility, but not a likelihood.
Bekah B
Triangulation and to see if you are still hooked. He inherently knows you can’t and won’t move on as long as he’s still visible to you. You know just in case he needs a fall back girl
Hello Lisa,
Thanks so much for your reply.. I agree with you.. I never even thought of that.. Thanks so much!! 🙂 He probably does want to see where I am with him, in my mind and heart, although he doesn’t ask questions directly related to that and I definitely don’t divulge that information.. He probably will use me to triangulate with his current IPPS.. (i believe he has before).. And I am all too familiar with being a fall back girl.. That’s how I started and subsequently got promoted to IPPS.. Smh..
So HG, what exactly is the difference between being placed on the shelf and being disengaged from? If IPSSs can be placed on the shelf and also disengaged from, is it true that a former IPPS can also be placed on the shelf? (obviously, they can be disengaged from)
Disengaged – disengagement devaluation, blocking, complete silence (possibility of malign hoovers thereafter but rare), painted black, no desire to engage with you (which of course may change in future)
Shelf – unlikely to be a devaluation beforehand but if there is it is a Corrective Devaluation , not blocked, comfort crumbs provided most of the time, remain painted white but narcissist’s focus is elsewhere – you can view it as a neutral act almost like a suspension (although it usually does not feel like a natural act to the victim as they usually mistake being placed on the shelf for devaluation)
The former IPPS would not be placed on the shelf.
Thanks so much, HG, for this very clear answer.. I hope this helps someone else if they had a very similar question..
As for me, personally, I guess I am disengaged from.. It seems as if it is either black or white with an IPPS.. You’re either current or former.. Engaged or disengaged.. Painted white or painted black.. It makes me wonder if any follow up communication initiated from the narcissist is a hoover attempt, whether benign or malign.. I really cannot tell, in my particular circumstance.. I am 100% positive my narcissist does not want to resume the Formal Relationship with me because he has a current IPPS, but he tries to reach out to me, frequently, and I cannot figure out why.. (Besides for fuel, which I do not provide..)
HG, I am always confused about this one (shelf vs. disengaged). What if the fact pattern is as follows: no apparent devaluation, during all interactions the narc was friendly, polite, confided in the appliance, complimentary of her, always responded to her contact positively and quickly or within a reasonable time, always promised future contact, but then would not initiate contact and allowed months to go by without contact with the most recent development ( about 5 months ago) of asking for space to work out issues with the IPPS and promising future contact soon. whatever that “soon” means! What is your interpretation, HG? Thank you!
“and thus the dance continues for as long as you will allow it without wounding or challenging us.” Does this mean HG, that negative fuel is not wanted from the IPSS? Or is the narcissist on their best behaviour so as not to scare away the IPSS? Because they are not as tightly secured as an IPPS? Or perhaps something else altogether? 🤣
We will take negative fuel from an IPSS.
Wounding does not provide fuel.
Challenging us is part of challenge fuel.
HG, I thought you only wanted positive fuel from IPSS or DLS? If this is not so, what am I waiting for? I have never called the narc on anything but always stuffed down disappointment and hurt. Now that you are saying you will take negative fuel, I would love to give him a piece of my mind and tear his head off.
Is it possible for the Narc to have only a primary and no secondary supply? What happens when she leaves and what are the dangers she faces?
Possible, but highly unlikely. This would mean that person has now friends, family, colleagues (NISS) or friend with benefits/mistress/side person (IPSS).
See How No Contact Feels – Parts One To Three.
This is an excellent and very detailed explanation of the different scenarios that an IPSS finds themselves in and wonders about. Thank you.
You are welcome.
Not meaning to be offensive myself, although this post is a perfect ,detailed and exact description of how the fuel matrix functions(at the intimate level) I find it rather offensive and violating.
It is actually the first post that makes me feel the need of giving it a moral value. It is brutal, raw : reading how the narcissist uses and moves people like pieces of a chess game..
And that is exactly what people are for the narcissist..each person is regarded as a chess piece, giving each one
a role , a value and a name on the chess game played by the narcissist…moving them around on the chess board….
I agree, SuperXena.. It is quite a shocker when your narcissist candidly admits to you that life is a game and that all people in his life are put there as a part of a strategic move, too.. That people “serve a purpose” to him.. I should’ve went running for the hills when he told me that, but at the time, I lacked the insight and potential harm this could cause me.. So glad to be enlightened now.. Thanks HG..
Hello Bekah B,
Thank you for your comment.
You are right, as you wrote:
“…. but at the time, I lacked the insight and potential harm this could cause me.. ”
That is exactly what puzzles me right now: the realisation of allowing that potential harm being closer than expected even though one has the insight…
I hope you are well!
Is it possible that after discarding IPPS, narc tries to install her as IPSS or non intimate secondary source?
That person is always the former IPPS but may well be treated at a later stage as an IPSS or NISS.
HG just summed up my last few years! First few years with wife number 3- then they got divorced and then this past Christmas I found out he had a new ‘wife’? I went SuperNova, then set the Revenge plan up and guess what? Yes, he has already devalued his ‘newest’ IPPS and seeking me out—- very strongly. I think they already broke up and I think she was the smart one and walked. He is phoning all the time “Please come to this house and this house- and I want to take you to Phoenix- it is time. Would you like that?” .
Thanks to this site- and some personal consults with HG- I am good. I have been seeing a new ‘friend’ ( yes just a friend no intimacy) he is showing me how a lady should be treated and I am getting used to being treated well.
So, I ‘think’ I am strong enough to ‘string’ narc along, play with him, toy with him and sit back while I can watch his world collapse around him—-and he will have no idea I did it….. Revenge plan is in place and I do not think I can stop it.
Ah poor baby!
The reality shared here was very difficult for me to read. I appreciate the honesty expressed. This description represents the hallmark trait of the narcissist that I am unwilling to tolerate.
A solid declaration BKK.
I never quite understand this. I was an ipss I was given the silent treatment then a few months later told there is a new Ipss and I have not been blocked (discarded) well I have but he always in does it. So I have been devalued but not discarded. From the article it didn’t seem like that was a possible scenario but has happened to me? Is that plausible and you just didn’t mention it?
I don’t understand what you are asking.
You have mentioned that ipss are rarely devalued but wouldn’t them telling you they have a new ipss and just want to be friends be a devalue? You mentioned that if ipss are devalued they are usually discarded? That did not happen to me no channel of communication had been blocked. Maybe I don’t understand what a devalue is
The IPSS does not have as severe a devaluation as the IPPS, but may still be devalued through a Corrective or Disengagement Devaluation.
An IPSS who is devalued, usually receives a Corrective Devaluation and therefore is not disengaged from. If they respond correctly to the CD, the golden period continues. If they do not, they will get another CD and maybe another or instead they receive a DD and they are disengaged from.
An IPSS is more likely to be placed on the shelf as opposed to being disengaged from. Being placed on the shelf is often mistaken for a devaluation, but it is not.
Was my comment deleted?
No
THIS PERSON SOUNDS CONFUSED LIKE I WAS BEFORE FINDING YOUR TAPE’S (H.G.) LOVE SHARON🐈🐈🐈🐈!!
I guess what you are saying is “I met someone else” isn’t necessarily devaluation but possibly a corrective devaluation and put upon the shelf ? I would love to read more about the intimate partner secondary sources
Correct.
Thank you HG. I think that clears it up. Out of curiosity what would a Narccisist consider a correct response after corrective devaluation? I mean no sane person is going to chase after a dude that says he wants to be friends? I just ignore ignore ignore even though I’m seeing little things on fb aimed at baiting me and I continue to ignore. If he shows up online on a thread I leave the thread and go offline
Hg I am at a different college than my ex boyfriend and was the entire 2 years we dated. We spent every weekend together with his family and friends and me and him texted all day long every day until we broke up. Does the long distance make me a secondary source? I am hoping so because that would lessen my chance of being hoovered I think.
Possibly, I would need more information about the dynamic to provide you with an accurate answer and that is best achieved through consultation.
HG, when you talk about exposing the narcissist in this article and elsewhere, could you please give specific examples of what that would look like?
Essentially it is showing (with credible evidence – not hearsay or oral testimony) the narcissist’s unsavoury side to either a number of key people in the narcissist’s fuel matrix and/or a wider audience.
Thanks so much, HG! I appreciate the clarification!