Tell Me That It Is True
I told you I loved you. That was not a lie. I meant it when I said it. I meant it every time that I said it, wrote it, messaged it, voice mailed it, gifted it and e-mailed it. I knew how to portray it. That wasn’t hard. There is so much material available for me to know what to say, how to say it, what to do and how to do it. I have seen it when it has been directed at me time and time again. All I had to do was mirror it. I have had enough people fall under my spell and love me so that I recognise love when I see it. It became simple enough to replicate it. My intentions really were noble. I wanted to love you and I gave you the love that I knew that you wanted. I did enough to fathom out how you wanted to be loved. Goodness knows I put in the spadework. I observed you and saw who you interacted with. I followed you to the places you frequented and noted what you ordered most often to eat and to drink. I sat behind you on the bus one time and saw the book that you read. I recognised the author so I went and bought three other of her titles and displayed them at home in readiness to show you and to let you borrow those which you had not read yet. I dispatched a Lieutenant to chat you up and gather more information for me to collate and consider. I trawled the internet looking for your footprints. I sat up late as my phone buzzed and pinged with the messages from other prospects that I was cultivating but I made them wait as I searched for you. I found you and using a reliable false profile in the name of a friend of the opposite sex to me I managed to secure your online friendship. I did not approach you directly, despite the cloak of anonymity. I preferred to walk like a ghost through your cyber world, observing your photographs and establishing the places where they were taken. I noted who your friends were, I highlighted potential competitors and I discerned who your family are. I took in the YouTube postings and when they were timed which told me you enjoyed a few glasses of wine in the evening on your own as you posted musical memories from your teenage years. I walked through your posts and your comments, picking up snippets of information that detailed your devotion to romance, your love of small dogs and your dislike of the cold. Like a silent, vast machine I remained your unseen companion for a month as I sucked up as much information as I could in order to build a picture of you and how you wanted to be loved. Each meme you posted gave me a clue. Every discussion with your friends added further layers as I created the person that would love you. I uploaded to him your interests and made them his. I bolted on the necessary skill sets which would please you. I furnished him with the choice phrases that you wanted to hear. I configured his actions, expressions, behaviours and more that would make him provide you with the love that you wanted to much and once all of this considerable preparatory work was complete I began my seduction.
I loved you. I loved you with passion, desire, attentiveness, excitement, mystery and kindness. All created from the morass of information that I had gathered about you which was layered onto my existing experience from previous relationships and my knowledge of how love operates in the world. I know that it worked. You fell for me hook, line and sinker and you became enveloped in my creation where you flourished, you shone and you bloomed. Your happiness radiated from you like sunbeams, the pleasure you took in us being together was tangible and all of those around us commented as such. It was marvellous, spectacular, wonderful and perfect.
You had no idea that my love was a creation. Why would you when not only did it match your concept of love but driven by my excellence it exceeded it? Why would you challenge something that felt so golden and so glorious? You would not. I gave you this love and you returned it. It was a match made in heaven. It was a transaction that suited us both. You received my scintillating synthetic love and you gave me the love that sustains me, that emotion infused reaction which powers and sustains me. We both were winners.
Was it such a bad thing that what I gave you was a fabrication if it looked like the real thing? I might even go so far as to say that it was even better than the real thing. Am I to be regarded as a bad person for this fraudulent act. Is it not the case that my deceit pleased you? Yes, you did not know about this deceit, you had no awareness of the fabrication but that caused you no harm did it? You saw and you believed and seeing is believing surely?
When I took you in my arms, shielding you from the black day that you had emerged from and you looked into my eyes and saw the love, the devotion and the optimism that burned there, did it really matter that I was mirroring what you showed me so long as it made you happy, elated and feel loved? My optimistic eyes were your optimistic eyes.
When I unleashed my hatred you could not and still do not understand how someone could treat you like that when that person kept saying that he loved you.
It was easy to switch to this vicious malevolence. It was easy to peel back the veneer that was the manufactured love. It was easy to switch off the creation that I made that provided you with this perfect love. A flick of a switch and he ceased to exist, leaving you with something else instead.
I did not lie when I said that I loved you.
I did not lie when I whispered that I loved you.
I did not lie when I shouted that I loved you.
I just did not tell you the truth.
The truth that I never felt love for you.
Because I cannot do that.
159 thoughts on “Tell Me That It Is True”
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‘Just’ can be funny. I am seeing a morning cartoon with a theme song, ‘Just your friendly neighborhood narcissist.’
“Here he is! He’s HG!
Comin’ down the road claiming, ‘This road was made for me!’
Just your friendly neighborhood narcissist who is kinda cool
Don’t mind him, he just wants your fuel…”
Very good, HG approves.
Thank u to everyone who encouraged me to get a consultation I’m going to sometime in the next two weeks
Awesome, Ugotit! I highly recommend the audio/Skype consult. You will benefit from Skyping in a way that isn’t possible with the email consult.
To k and Jenna to k I will be doing a non audio consultation I would not be able to handle hearing hg s voice and remember what I want to say to Jenna I’m glad your back I was worried about u
Ugotit
HG isn’t scary; he is just a narcissist. Practice listening to his voice on YouTube. He is very polite IRL and normal.
I have done the email and the Skype. In your situation Ugotit, you would benefit more from the Skype.
Think on it.
Hey, less of the “just”!
Ha ha ha..I had a feeling you might notice that, HG, but I was trying to make you appear innocuous and ordinary, like a normal garden-variety narcissist, to make Ugotit feel at ease.
However, we all know you are truly extraordinary.
That’s more like it.
My pleasure, HG, what can I say, I like to angle.
Hi kim,
I’m really happy that you will be scheduling a consult. Have your questions ready on a sheet of paper or inotes. It really helps!
Mine made me too paranoid/careful for small talk for more than 2 years, and we were not romantically involved. I cannot imagine being exposed to the full-blown efforts of this kind, and am very glad I found this page.
Yes, you want to stay away, I repeat, stay away from Narcissists.
Personality disorder surely messes one’s family life up . . . today is my son’s birthday . . . I’m getting the silent treatment–since September. He’s a NPD just like his father. Breaks my heart.
(((Hugs))) to you melinda that must be so painful. Hes your son so if you feel like it celebrate his birthday in some way on your own.
You ladies are terrific as usual thank you I’m in an unusual predicament right now that’s teaching me a lot my narcissistic mother is staying with me right now not by my choice but because we are having a blizzard and her nurses can’t get out to her it hasn’t even been 24 hours and she’s already been criticizing me condemning me and barking orders at me like its 1820 and I’m her personal slave I had to literally go out twice in the storm just to prevent myself from killing her or myself I haven’t spent more than 30 minutes with her in almost 2 decades but its all coming back to me now this is how I was raised its a miracle I had only one relationship with a narc I need that consultation with hg terribly
The blizzard sucks big time, Ugotit, and you are stuck with your mother!!! Awful! Book your consult right now and it will make you feel much better.
Whoever you are, whatever you are, your utter honesty in this brutal post and all the others are EXACTLY what I need to read. It gives voice and explanation to all the pain I’ve felt for so long.This post, jesus.
I was scrambling for the key to the mystery for so, so so long — hoping that one day my narc would be able to give voice to some utterly honest explanation — but of course it never came nor could it ever. The level of your self-introspection, clarity, and articulation is beyond appreciated. The good you are doing here for empaths is changing the world for the better one person at a time. I’m quite sure that you’ve caused a lot of chaos in your own personal dealings and I’d never want to meet you in real life, so thank Dog for the Internet and for Al Gore for inventing it to make this kind of dissemination of information possible. Logical thinking has indeed freed my headspace to once again go about the business of raising children, being an artist, wife, and [generally] productive member of society.
I was at the end of my rope this year, with physical and psychological self-harm/destruction probably imminent. When I read posts such as this one, it’s like I can hear “my” narc’s voice in my head telling me your words and the whole disgusting addictive spell is finally broken. I still need refreshers quite often (okay, daily) to get it into my head and remind me, but it’s definitely broken. Well done.
What was your line of work before starting this blog?
The same as it is now. I’m pleased the article was effectiveness.
Ditto. HG’s work is brilliant. I feel so fortunate to have found him.
Hypatia, that was a lovely comment. Thank you for sharing & I concur. Wishing you well on your continued healing journey…
Ad the last two sentences with some sarcasm to save the day – HG, can you tell me how to make Vegan Charcuterie, which you’ve probably never made yourself in your life?
Or would you send me somewhere where somebody can tell me how to make it and then give the recipe to you?
What is “vegan”?
It’s what they call cheap non-leather purses (previously known as pleather…) 😉
Ha ha.
‘Vegan’ is not consuming any animal products or even wearing/using products or clothing that have harmed animals.
Curious thought; could you go vegan for IPPS? I bet not…I have a feeling that you enjoy steak much too much.
I do know WC I was demonstrating my carnivore credentials! I could go vegan – I’ve adopted far harder roles
Technical question:
Do vegans engage in oral?
Yes HG, I know that you know.
I was just demonstrating that you enjoy steak.
Jolly good. Sanguine by the way.
Going vegans easy once you know where the meats coming from and how the animals are treated not to mention what meat does to your health. Ive been vegan for a few years now 🤗
That’s why I wrestle bovines
Narc Affair
I know you didnt mean it to be, but that struck me as ironic. If only it were that simple to apply that ideology to ahem…other issues lol.
I tried vegetarian and vegan. Actually walked away with a few good recipes and a new appreciation of steak, bacon and chicken.
I now thank the animals for their sacrifice so I may be sustained by their delicious flesh!
Not gonna touch that with a 10 foot pole.
HG dont let those snazzy socks get full of bs 😄🤠
Hi narcangel…i like your humor and thats a different type of meat 😄
You are so fucking cheeky, NarcAngel! Ha ha ha….
Now im having mental images of HG as a sexy urban cowboy 🤗 👤🤠 oh la la 😊
Yee hah
Okay, I was not going to go there but my brain has sunk to new levels on this blog…I wish I could erase the mental image of a jersey cow, in a plether wrestling pants…pole dancing arcobatically around a 10 foot pole for audience of one – that being HG.
Thank gawd this was an image behind my eyes and not in front…otherwise; ooh, the retinal scarring!!
Quick, erase, ERASE! Somethings cannot be unseen…
Where’s narc affair’s mental image of HG of a sexy urban cowboy when you need it…
How on earth did you get to that image from what I wrote ?
I was thinking the same thing, HG. Ha ha ha…
Who cares…you have a vivid imagination lol
Thank-you narc affair.
Now I have images of Jon Voight in my head from Midnight Cowboy.
And it’s ‘Yee-Haw’ HG, not Hee-Hah.
Tisk tisk. They don’t have cowboys in the UK, I see.
I typed yee – autocorrect must have intervened. Yes we have cowboys in the UK – certain builders
I meant you wrote ‘Yee-Hah’ Damnit I go to prove a point and I mistype.
Ha ha, so auto correct did not intervene with what I typed.
HG,
We call that Bulldoggin’ on this side of the pond, pardner!
“Grab your partner by the hair, throw her down, and leave her there!”
(Funky Western Civilization, by Tonio K)
Well, I have learned something new.
Is HG in ketosis?
I love how you crafted your words in this…as well as the choice of image. They are well matched.
And that’s the truth.
Thank you.
Ive never loved someone. I love animals, children, being outdoors, but loving a mans has alluded me. The Narc taught me a lot . . . He told me I was too easy, but I was being love bombed by him. I wanted to feel it, too. I believe there are many who never experience love whether they have a dis-eased mind or considered norma l. Love is an illusion created by greeting card companies.
This is very interesting and I wonder, is “love” (the way society intends it) something that people learn, just like language? Are we sure it is a biological response? Something written in our DNA?
Society, for example, claims that mothers love their children and I (as well as other ACONs) am living proof this is absolutely not the case.
Having been raised by narcissist parents, I have no idea what unconditional love is. How it feels to be appreciated for who you are, rather than what you DO.
No one has showed me how to love and I am almost sure I don’t know how to do it.
And then again, are we sure that “loving someone” isn’t the fulfilling of a selfish need? Feeling good about oneself and such?
Don’t people derive a sense of self worth from doing “good things”, caring for someone and so forth? Who does good for the sake of it?
To be clear, I do NOT advocate or justify the exploitation of other people’s illusions and/or vulnerabilities but, is not being able to FEEL love such a terrible (and rare) thing?
Just wondering.
Hi EmP!
“And then again, are we sure that “loving someone” isn’t the fulfilling of a selfish need? Feeling good about oneself and such?”
Exactly my opinion! Until you start to do it right – and take that outwards interest inwards.
The golden period? Narcissistic for both partners, IMO. Because it is all about how that other person makes us feel, instead of how we feel and want to share it with them.
What is love? It is no one emotion, it’s a mixture of many. And, in my long-standing opinion, it has to be worked on everyday in order for it to thrive and last. Much in the same way as a garden needs tending.
It could readily seem as such, and I can’t speak for anyone but myself, but when I love someone or care for them I give 150%, and I don’t do it because it makes me warm and fuzzy or for any reason other than the simple fact that I love that person.
When I care I give my all and then some. I expect no reward, nothing in return. If I am loved in return I certainly appreciate it, but I don’t demand or expect it.
NarcMagnet
‘When I care I give my all and then some. I expect no reward, nothing in return. If I am loved in return I certainly appreciate it, but I dont demand or expect it”.
Youre not so much a magnet as waving a 10 ft flag lol.
NarcMagnet
“True Empathy is an act of altruism. It does not seek accolades, awards or thanks. It is genuinely offered, with the purpose of reaching out to another person and helping them, without the expectation of receiving anything in return.”
No doubt about it; you are truly an empath.
To clarify, I meant that society wants us to believe that ALL mothers love their children. But not all mothers love their children (some do of course).
Yes, the society would have us think many things, which are not based on truth. But do we do that?
Do I wake up every day and think, “Thank you heavens for our good president. The guy can barely sleep thinking how to make ALL our lives alright and dream-like.”? No, I don’t. If I pay him any time with my thoughts, it’s to wonder, why the guy is on TV again with his faked emotional display.
You see, HG, you’d like people to only think with their brains. And I think that is not very fortunate. Empaths should do empathing and learn their emotions. They will always be there, just waiting to take over when the brain is too tired.
When I tried that kind of approach, inspired by the narcissistic people I know, I entered the worst phase of my life so far, and I am never going back there again “without a gun to my head”. Or “knife to my throat”. This is how much fun I got then.
Brains are not people. People should use their brains, not the other way around.
Also, it’s very easy to spot a liar. But the reasons behind lying vary, so judging a person by the cover, i.a. liar, is not the end of their story.
No, I explain it is necessary to recognise emotional thinking and get it under control to allow the application of logic.
EmP
I read that empathy is older than language and wired into our DNA.
“It is a social and emotional skill that helps us feel and understand the emotions, circumstances, intentions, thoughts, and needs of others, such that we can offer sensitive, perceptive, and appropriate communication and support.” -The Art of Empathy
Like you, I was raised by two narcissists and was not loved, however, I understand unconditional love and feel love. Loving someone and wanting to be loved is wired into us and is essential for our survival.
Narcs are everywhere and they seem satisfied without love, however, several of mine have self-destructed, which I think is related to their magical thinking: I won’t get addicted to heroin/alcohol.
When I look at my narcs, I wonder, too, but I am happy that I am able to feel love, even though it hurts like hell sometimes.
I agree, K “Loving someone and wanting to be loved is wired into us and is essential for our survival.” And narcs need love – that is the draw for me.
..the most frustrating part – that they need it, want it (even if this is denied at times) yet it doesn’t do any good & we get pushed away..
Yep, I’d choose love always. I still believe in its strength.. that it gives me.. thus, my strength… just have to be careful how I love.. so I don’t hurt myself knowingly.. damn I feel like an idiot sometimes..
Hi K,
I don’t think empathy is wired into human beings. I have experienced lack of empathy first hand and so have you.
In any event, I am capable of empathy. I wouldn’t say I am the most empathic individual on the planet, but still.
When it comes to being capable of love I guess a lot depends on what is meant by “love”.
A reminiscence from when I was a student will help clarify.
So, the Greeks had four words to describe what we call “love”:
Eros (elation, idealistic love, the love of the body, egocentric and acquisitive) – I am capable of this one.
Philia (affection, alignment of culture anf beliefs) – this one too.
And here come the problems..
Storge (love for the community, the family, the country) – hmmm
Agape (self-giving, self-sacrificial, unconditional love) – not really.
A lot of peole out there claim they can feel love but, what kind of love are they talking about anyway?
Hello EmP,
I had never heard of the narcissistic-empath spectrum until I came here and I had no idea that I was an empath. To see where you fall on the spectrum read HG’s articles about empathy, if you haven’t already.
Like you, I never experienced unconditional love as a child and I never made familial connections, either. At home, I suppressed love, empathy, joy, happiness, tears, guilt, remorse and I didn’t have much of a conscience either.
It is perfectly normal if you don’t feel unconditional love, love for country, community or family. Everyone is wired differently. You may lean more towards apathy on the spectrum.
I am confused about several emotions and I am sorting them all out while I am here, but the feeling that I call “love” is very strong and feels wonderful, as well as, selfless, safe, gentle, kind and free. It is truly and honestly the most beautiful feeling in the world.
Hello K,
I hope all is fine with you.
I understand what you mean.
I used to see the narcissist as a machine but now that I understand how they function I see them far from being a machine. They do have emotions as you mentioned it , being their spectrum different than ours.
They do have emotional thinking and they get hurt as we do.
So they are not truly free in the strict sense of the word since they are “chained” to certain feelings and try to control them as much as we do. They are “free” i.ex. of the pain inflicted by love but they are not free from the pain inflicted by i.ex. criticism. They are dependable as well on their need of admiration and validation(fuel) as much as we are dependable of i.ex the need to be loved, human touch.
I do not see them as machines.. they do have indeed feelings..
Very much indeed.
Best wishes
You are ‘my girl’, SX! Thank you for writing here!
SarcNarc,
I do not know what you are referring to by being “your girl” which I am not (with or without quotation marks).
I do not know you.
It is very transparent from your comment that you are trying to turn this platform into a “war” platform which is not.
It is not a matter of winning or losing but to understand how the different perspectives function.
It is not a matter of being against or in favor
It is not a matter of saying which perspective is good or bad, better or worse.
I am trying to analyse the two perspectives without giving a moral value to any of them: based just in “facts” of how the two perspectives work.
Isn’t it a matter of respecting different perspectives? It does not mean that you have to accept them but at least you should understand them.
Your comment made me wonder: which perspective do you BELONG to?
Hello SX
Thank you, everything is great and I hope all is well with you, too. I agree with everything you wrote. Narcissists are human and they do get hurt by criticism.
When I refer to the narcissist as a machine, I think it is because of the way they seem devoid of many emotions and my narcissists were/are relentless, unstoppable and “machine-like” in their never-ending hunt for fuel. They are absolutely chained/addicted to it. They are not free in that sense, at all.
I made an unsuccessful bid to extract info out of HG regarding his book about The Creature, but once I read that, I will be able to get a better sense of what the narcissist feels and that will most likely alter my perspective.
Warmest regards
P.S.
Some of my narcissists have so little affect that they seem like automatons. It is really weird.
Hello K,
Thank you I am fine and I hope you are fine as well.
I never saw my ex as a machine.I understand why you consider them as such.
On the contrary I realised he was extremely vulnerable (of course never showing that as we do) being his coping mechanisms to that vulnerability different from mine (alien to me) and difficult to understand then.
What I felt ( similar to your machine parallel) was that he was “with me” and at the same time “not being with me”. Strange unexplainable feeling then but I know now that what I sensed was his void, his emptiness.
They are indeed very vulnerable as much as we are but in a different way and their coping strategies to tackle that are also very different from ours .
And with this one , I am sending you my warmest regards as well!
SX
Thank you, I am at the library right now surrounded by books, so I am in heaven! I am happy to read that you are doing well, too.
One reason I called my MMRN a machine was because he didn’t sleep much (about 4 hours a night) and he was always going and going and going, so I started to say to him: You need a shut-off button, so I can turn you off. Sometimes, he would go 2 days without sleep. I know a female narc who is the same, just keeps going and going and hardly sleeps.
They are vulnerable, indeed, so my homework for this weekend will be looking into healthy and unhealthy shame so I can get a better understanding of what they deal with. My MMRN’s busyness (fuel gathering) appears to be a big part of his coping strategy.
Warmest regards and enjoy the weekend!
Hello K,
My weekend was excellent thank you. I hope yours was good as well.
How far did you come with your research about “healthy “and “unhealthy “shame at the library? Did you come to a conclusion?
Yes, their sleeping partners differ from ours. Regarding my ex he
never had trouble to sleep , he slept deep and “peaceful” regardless if we had had a big fight.
Nothing could disturb his sleep( just if it was warm, the room had to be cool..for me almost freezing).
It was like he shut himself off ….completely: no remorse, no disturbing thoughts…
Hello SuperXena
My “shame” homework is coming along swimmingly. I understand the difference between healthy and unhealthy shame but I need to look into it some more. Shame can be very debilitating and I am looking at repression v suppression. I read that Narcissists repress emotions so deeply that they play no conscious role in his life, only on an unconscious level.
My MMRN slept the sleep of the dead.
My weekend is fabulous; enjoy your Sunday!
Interesting research K.
I believe narcissists feel shame as a painful feeling arising just in the case of not succeeding with a certain aim (seeing this as dishonourable.) They do not feel shame for causing harm.
As we know, they do not feel guilt or remorse as a feeling of responsibility for some offence, crime or wrong they have caused to others.
Do you mean that narcissists are suppressing or repressing certain emotions (feelings) as a defence mechanism? But they actually are not devoid of these?( i.ex. feeling of love, attachement,happiness)
Suppressing these feelings would be made consciously choosing to not indulge in a conscious thought, feeling or action even though they are aware of it. But this would require a degree of awareness .
Repression I think is called: ” dis-associative amnesia, is similar to suppression but it involves unconsciously forgetting or blocking some unpleasant thoughts, feelings and impulses. Individuals might use repression to become unconscious about traumatic past memories”
Interesting to know more about your research !
Warm regards.
Interesting research K.
I believe narcissists feel shame as a painful feeling arising just in the case of not succeeding with a certain aim (seeing this as dishonourable.) They do not feel shame for causing harm.
As we know, they do not feel guilt or remorse as a feeling of responsibility for some offence, crime or wrong they have caused to others.
Do you mean that narcissists are suppressing or repressing certain emotions (feelings) as a defence mechanism? But they actually are not devoid of these?( i.ex. feeling of love, attachement,happiness)
Suppressing these feelings would be made consciously choosing to not indulge in a conscious thought, feeling or action even though they are aware of it. But this would require a degree of awareness .
Repression I think is called: ” dis-associative amnesia, is similar to suppression but it involves unconsciously forgetting or blocking some unpleasant thoughts, feelings and impulses. Individuals might use repression to become unconscious about traumatic past memories”
Interesting to know more about your research !
Warm regards.
SX
Your first paragraph articulates what I read in HG’s book Your Fault; Blame and the Narcissist. Narcissists are incapable of feeling guilt, however, failure evokes shame, so they feel weak and push the shame into blame by projecting it onto someone else.
I read that narcissists repress emotions so effectively that they deny themselves access to them.
The midranger has the cognitive function to realize his behavior is viewed as “wrong” but no emotional correlate, so he can’t experience the emotion because he lacks the emotional empathy to do so.
The pain is so bad that the child buries it to survive, but it is buried so deep that s(he) can’t access it. S(he) doesn’t even know she did it.
K,
Yes, I have learned and understood from the book you mentioned and some of the answers given by HG, that shame arises from the feeling of having failed.
What I think is different (from us) is that they apply this “competitiveness” to their (romantic ) relationships as well.
I have experienced this feeling of shame in areas such as sport competitions-when you are competing against yourself and have a group of supporters that you feel you are turning down if you do not succeed- or at the professional arena when you i.ex. do not succeed with a project and you are a leader of the group responsible for the project.
Concerning a romantic relationship when it ends I do not feel shame for not succeeding, I feel perhaps sad or even guilty /remorse if I have hurt my partner …I do not see a relationship as a “competition”.
I think therein lies the big difference.
Interesting to know if they actually have those feelings and they are repressed as a defence mechanism or if they are completely devoid of them.
SX
The narcissist views everyone as an opponent, even his own children and IPPS, it is amazing when you think about it. He competes with everyone.
My MMRN’s narc niece signed up for some college courses and when she went to class, her matriNarc was in there. Her mother then bragged about how her assignments got better grades than her daughter’s. SMH.
From what I have read, the emotions are atrophied/unavailable. No wonder they watch, mimic and mirror us. It is wild when you think about it. They see the love, tears and smiles but can’t connect it to the emotion, because the emotion is unavailable.
The accounts of people who were shamed by their narcissistic parents are heartbreaking to read and the more I read, the more I understand it.
Interesting that you mentioned that your research has lead to that their emotions are atrophied.
It lead me directly to a term I use a lot in my profession regarding muscle atrophy. There are two types:
disuse atrophy: in this case they may be latent (emotions) and had not been “in use” but this could be reversed
or
neurogenic atrophy: where there is a ” neurological” disfunction
and this condition can’t be reversed.
Strange parallel I am doing regarding emotional atrophy and muscular atrophy but your term lead me immediately into that direction.But then again, they are just theories.
Best wishes
SX
In the case of the narcissist, the emotions are “dead” and cannot be reversed, or brought back, similar to neurogenic atrophy. Their behavior is context driven, a.k.a. instinct and that is why they monitor us so closely. It is imperative that they fit in, so they can get what they need; fuel. It is all about survival.
Sorry K, you may have received a double version of my comment!
Hi Emp I am the same, I do not know love and I dont think. I have an NPD mother and my sister is one too. I am an empath but I am not a love devotee,is it a terrible thing that I dont feel it…. No.
Meaning I dont think I feel it or have known it… trying to work in the office and comment at the same time can be tricky hehe : )
Hi Julie,
I do not know UNCONDITIONAL love, the one that mothers are supposed to have for their children. The ‘purest’ form of love. The one where you are not looking for your selfish needs to be fulfilled. But I know infatuation, for example.
I wonder if this is a result of having been raised by NPD parents. Or if it’s simply who I am.
And just like you I am not really a love devotee.
Sorry to hear you have been raised by a narcissistic mother bu the way. I know very well what that means. Possibly one of the biggest disgraces to a person.
On a lighter note, I call my mother the Wicked Witch of the West (the only difference being she is immune to water). 130 lbs. of pure wickedness.
Hey Emp
I think its because of the way i grew up definitely
I also know infatuation… my mother is satan Thats what i tell people no other way to explain the hell fire she creates.
👹
Does unconditional love really exist?
Not sure…. 😊but all i have ever experienced is “love” with a whole bunch of stipulations and manipulations.
Nuit Étoilée
Don’t feel like an idiot, you are fine just the way you are and we just have to learn how to protect ourselves from narcissists. We are lucky that we are able to feel love and share it with others, irrespective of our broken hearts.
Narcissists are wired in such a way, that our love is their fuel, and it is valued very differently in their world. They will always push us away in pursuit of a better and more potent source of supply.
Sholud i actually hate you ( your kind) for not being able to love me?
Things happen. Things are the way they are.
I only loose my energy If i try to change them the way i think it is correct and RIGHT.
Once i discover the Truth i can only choose to join the GAME or not!
HG would you like to be able to love in an authentic manner?
Do you think that a very remote reason does exist and would worth?
I have yet to see any compelling reason to do so and plenty that confirm to me that one ought not to.
Hg wouldn’t freedom from fuel addiction (and from your false self) be a valueble reason to?
It’s always hypothetical question…
At what cost? Being addicted to fuel does not cause me any issues.
I’m confused, but I sort of understand too. It strikes me as ironic that you advocate for victims and can still feel that way about seeing no need to change. I suppose being addicted to fuel doesn’t cause you problems. The collateral damage really is a matter for those that are affected and would not be considered a problem from your perspective.
I do not advocate for victims.
Now I really am confused. If you’re not advocating, what would be the word to use?
See my reply to Ugotit, MB.
HG teaches/enlightens us, however, we can advocate for victims. He is insouciant; he simply isn’t wired to care, irrespective of his awareness and insight. He is efficient at what he does and it makes no sense for him to change because it isn’t in his best interest.
Except constant insecurity and needing to rely on others instead of yourself.
A narcs addiction yo fuel is just as bad as our addiction to a narc. Its toxic.
But I feel no insecurity and such a reliance does not cause me any problems.
I beg to differ on that HG. You once said you have learned through your interactions here and in your private life that with empaths, they are able to hear the opinions and mindsets of others with differing opinions, values, arguments, etc., and respectfully acknowledge them. Allow them to be heard with no repercussions. You, begin hearing a differing mindset and will ultimately get wounded and shut that person down to re-instate your superiority. You will just come right out and say, “You’re wrong”. That is huge insecurity.
Not when one is correct. You perceive it as insecurity, I do not. I know what I feel.
From what I have read, HG has no problem with his fuel matrix; he is designed to be a narcissist and he is excellent at it. If I were he, I wouldn’t change either.
You never feel insecure HG? Not even when youre not number one or you feel youre losing control of certain fuel sources? Everything ive learned here says otherwise that narcissists are very insecure and need fuel to feel ok with themselves? Maybe youre the exception.
No. I feel furious and other emotions I have described but I do not feel insecure. I accept that there are those of my kind who are and one should recognise that distinction.
Chaos mode come to mind.
Yet.
Nuit Étoilée
I agree, he has yet to find his reason.
Hi dandelion, mb, and narcaffair,
Hg: “Being addicted to fuel does not cause me any issues.”
I think it would only cause issues for a lesser or a midranger. Especially for midrangers who withdraw and become depressed frm low fuel, for weeks at a time.
I recently realized i know a greater. He is never depressed. Greaters gain fuel sources easily, so it’s not a huge issue for them.
Correct.
Hi jenna…how do you know that greater isnt depressed? Greaters put on the best facade of them all! Npd is a personality disorder and ill never believe it doesnt cause issues. I think greaters are insecure too but in different ways. Npd is toxic. Healthy narcissism isnt.
That being said i cant say how HG feels only he knows that but from what jve learned here npd at the core is insecurity and i learned from the best teacher! 👤
Hi narcaffair,
It’s possible that the greater i know gets depressed, but i have never seen it. And he seems genuinely happy. It does not seem like a mask to me. He is always laughing and joking. Or maybe he is not a narc. He sure is controlling though. I will consult hg on this matter sometime.
Doesnt fear and insecurity come from anger ie. Fury?
Oops i meant anger arise from fear and insecurity?
Anger might, fury does not.
In the strictest definition of the word advocate it means speak for someone but in the broader sense it means help someone so by giving people tools to escape you are helping people like it or not and yes I surely know u don’t do the work for people I’ve witnessed that .if you wanted to be unhelpful you could tell people they are to blame for the narcs actions and that they should stay with the narc because its their fault and their responsibility to fix it.you may not be setting out to help people and you may feel you don’t help and you definitely don’t want to help or acknowledge you help but you do advocate might be the wrong word but help.us you do in your own indirect cold way
Yes I suppose the provision of these tools would be regarded as a form of help so a broader definition could apply.
I do not tell people they are to blame because they are not and I provide the brutal truth here. Of course, in my private life I do blame them but that is a different matter.
Do not forget that I do not provide what I provide out of any sense of charity or altruism, I do it for a multitude of reasons which work for me and it also assists many other people so it is a win/win.
“Of course, in my private life I do blame them but that is a different matter.”
☹️😣
….
😂😂😂
Omg i am dying!
Stop blaming these poor women, u fiend!
I was going by the broader definition too. But it ain’t a hill I’m gonna die on! I know better than to argue with a master 😘 He will chew me up and spit me out!
So this dead horse is buried as far as I’m concerned. I’ll never accuse you of any altruistic behavior again Mr. Tudor. Lesson learned Sir.
I did not regard it as an accusation MB, it makes sense for me to issue such reminders every so often.
Objectively speaking, you are an excellent sociopath, as well.
Hg ~
“At what cost? Being addicted to fuel does not cause me any issues.”
and to everyone – NAffair especially – you are asking someone w NPD to admit weakness (insecurity) – not going to happen. Hg does not, cannot see his lifestyle as difficult, as there is nothing insurmountable – aka deny & deflection/superiority
– “No, no trouble, my life is perfect.”
My truth and his are not the same. Hg, you say you are not miserable – but my knowledge and experience, both in life and through psychology, would indicate living without love is a miserable existence. (I know, I know, you say you receive love, but I would say – you have yet to experience it. I do wish that for you.) Not that I would wish you to be miserable.. but this disorder that influences your perspective – I know, I know, you see the world how it “truly” is – is not the reality the majority of people experience.. I know, I know, this is due to your brilliance.. while I don’t disagree with your brilliance, I do disagree with your perspective.. and I hope (that rascal) one day you see the many reasons, that outweigh any cost of love.
Nuit Étoilée … like anything in life … you don’t know what you don’t know. We all deeply want the Narc to be unhappy but that is because in our world being happy and love is what we are seeking. The Narc is happy when he finds fuel – for awhile – like our happiness does not last forever .
My Narc admits being very insecure – admits he has a miserable life etc … But he does not seek love etc because he has not experienced it and he won’t allow it so he is not missing anything and that is his reality
I think we feel superior to them as empath because we can love and feel loved – so we tell them how inferior they are to have that inability .
We also want the upper hand … the real love upper hand !
I am working on perspective-taking:
HG isn’t miserable, if he can’t feel happiness, then he can’t feel misery.
He is missing, roughly, half of the spectrum of emotions and is heavy on rage, jealousy, envy, pride, lust for fuel and power, etc.
I posit that he feels neutral/empty/devoid of feelings except when an emotion is evoked. To wit: someone/thing flatters, angers, or frustrates him. He isn’t equipped to feel love, intimacy or connections so he can’t miss them. It is foreign to him.
He is a machine, he has no internal control (conscience) and he is programmed for predation.
He is truly free.
“I posit that he feels neutral/empty/devoid of feelings except when an emotion is evoked. To wit: someone/thing flatters, angers, or frustrates him. He isn’t equipped to feel love, intimacy or connections so he can’t miss them. It is foreign to him… He is truly free.”
So. If I come here and write a nasty comment on how the blog sucks and is completely useless*, because I had a bad day, and I want to make somebody else’s day even worse. Let’s say HG erupts and throws all his things off his desk.
I win – I made somebody angry.
How is that free?
*I don’t think that, but you couldn’t be sure without the clever use of an asterisk.
SarcNarc
HG isn’t free from ALL emotional thinking, however, he isn’t burdened by guilt, conscience or remorse, so he has a huge advantage over most people.
HG might get some low grade tertiary fuel from your angry comment, or feel mildly annoyed, and then he would most likely respond by correcting your inaccuracy regarding his blog. He seems to have excellent control of his fury and if you think about it, you are an NITS; you don’t matter.
If you look at it objectively, you didn’t win.
K, are you HG’s jelaous lieutenant or something?
I’m free from sarcastic hurts, many people aren’t. It doesn’t make me a super hero in my eyes, but it does make my life easier.
You may proudly present HG’s emotions but it is clear to me from your post that you were annoyed with my comment.
Luckily, there is no fuel in it for me.
How is HG doing on gratefulness,btw?
No, K is not my lieutenant. K is helpful since she knows my work well and will direct people to relevant articles and also provide clarification (which is what she did in her comment) which saves me valuable time.
Thank you, HG!
SarcNarc
On the contrary, I wasn’t annoyed by your comment at all. I was trying to state very clearly what I meant about HG being free (from guilt) and how he would most likely respond to your angry comment.
Since I have been here, I have been “listening” and thinking, and now I feel ready to see things from his point of view and articulate it. Also, I am trying to do this from a position of neutrality and logic with a hint of prudence (fear of making a mistake will stymie my progress).
I am an empath so there is no expectation of “gratefulness”, however, he has thanked me (and encouraged me) plenty of times since I have been here.
Emotions blind one to what is, doesn’t matter what side of the spectrum one stands.
Yes its true hg you do not advocate for victims its the members of the group who give support to one another not you. You just give us information and knowledge of how a narc thinks which as far as I know there is no other resource that does this from a narcs perspective only from victims or doctors and professionals not from narcs.I’ve even noticed on a few occasions somebody posted something that from my personal opinion and my several years of psych study in college lead me to believe the person needed immediate professional intervention in other words that seemed suicidal or severely disturbed and it was disheartening that you said nothing . Response to their post encouraging g them to get help this is where I see your clearly a narcissist and I mean this not to be insulting just being factual.on the other hand one could argue that you are advocating for victims in two ways. Number one you define this dynamic as abuse and number two you encourage people to get out and stay out. These are the two most important factors to recovery knowing you have been abused and knowing you should leave the person so indirectly you are advocating for victims whatever your motivation really is
That should have said you said nothing and gave no response to their post
An advocate speaks on behalf of another. I do not speak for your kind Ugotit, I let you speak for yourselves here. I tell you how we think, operate and feel, how we regard you, interact with you and what you can do in that respect to protect yourself. I provide the most effective tools – you have to pick them up, I am not going to do that for you.
I can explain this to Ugotit –
“buy a consultation with me and i will call you an empath”
+ there is some help with the very difficult understanding that the Other does not inhabit an emotional reality like my own, which i have been taught to believe is the natural and normal unavoidable, absolute state of the universe. But that realisation comes from a lot of critical study and mental flexibility.
No one, not even Narcs, know what it is like on the Other Side. Not having experience of emotional depth, is not in and of itself a clearer picture of reality – just their reality and how it engages with our own fleshy-emo vulnerabilities.
The weakness of a narc is that they just do this single act of exploitation that feeds their egos, but outside of that they cease to exist. Within that dynamic of predation they do feel superior and don’t feel guilt. Outside of it they’re depressed because they have to experience their emptiness and total lack of worth – it’s not low worth it’s lack of anything.
As an emotional person, i’ve experienced ‘subjective destitution’ – aka the void of reality without meaning, i might even experience that more profoundly than someone with less emotion and no empathically formed reality, who constantly exists in the void. But i understand abstractly that the experience of reality has many dimensions to it, because consciousness is a strange thing.
If narcs would be able to compare and confront their own natures, they might kill themselves – some actually do. So this superiority mechanism is for their own survival.
Next to that: feeling guilty about the objects, seems absurd.
I find it hard to believe it causes you No problems I don’t know if u exaggerate when u tell stories of your victims but if you genuinely throw fits for not being served first and you genuinely destroyed somebody’s flower garden just for fuel and these weren’t creative licence for illustration purposes but actual events then I find it hard to believe people in your inner circle haven’t discussed behind your back the fact that u might be emotionally unbalanced I know I would if I saw someone act like this
But did the inner circle witness these events? Of course not. O remain intact delectable facade and continue thy conning ways!
Just finished reading the private consultation with HG…you guys it’s so worth the money invested…I feel much better and stronger after his detailed accurate descriptions and predictions about the specific Narc i was involved with. Highly recommend choosing him as your guide..i’ve tried therapy before but it was not much help especially when they weren’t even that familiar with NPD and PTSD. Again, highly recommend HG Tudor private consultations.
Pinkdonut
Glad to hear that you have engaged with him to obtain the information you need. There really is no one more qualified in this arena and who can set you on the right path. Best wishes going forward.
I want one but I’m terrified to learn the truth like maybe he’s not a narc at all or maybe I am or maybe I’m just a stupid smchuck somehow I feel like getting a consultation would be like auditioning for simon cowell on american idol or Britain’s got talent he’s gonna tell the awful truth like it or not and I’m going to wind up being crushed by the reality that I am the worlds worst singer or in this case the stupidest chump terrifying in every way
Please get the help you need 💕 …..HG is IT
Ugotit,
HG isn’t that bad. The truth is the truth. Yes, you’ll kick yourself in the ass for being gullible, but you have to remember, you are not alone.
Narcs are master manipulators. They make it seem so real that anyone can fall for it. I know I did & more than once. I have the distinct honor of having been in 5 long term relationships/ marriages All but one was a narc. I am currently trying to make narc number four take a hike. Hence, Narc Magnet.
So if you feel like an idiot, then how do you think I feel?
I feel just fine, thank you very much. Like I said, they’re insidious, but that’s on them. You are not responsible for his personality disorder! You are, however ,responsible for your actions. To do nothing out of fear of the truth is totally on you!
Ugotit! Don’t feel intimidated. I was in denial that JN may actually be a Narc for over a year because he had so conditioned me that I was delusional, crazy, insecure overthinker, etc. HG is not going to make you feel like you are being interrogated. He’s there for you to pick his brain. I’ve had several with him and some of the long time readers have commented on seeing a marked change in my thinking and demeanor. I like to stay and be a cheerleader for others now. It was a good move to get answers from him.
Thank you Clarece
Ugotit
He is a narc (based on what you have written) and you are not stupid, however, you are brimming with fuel. I would have a field day with you, if I were a narc. HG is very nice and I recommend the audio/skype consult. I think you need to do it and you are tougher than you think.
Ugotit,
No Way!
I’m the stupidist chump!
(JK, I’m sure many of us felt we were the stupidist chump, at one time or another. )
Does he fit the criteria for narc? You know if he does. It is hard to assimilate that because people don’t do “that”.
But the narcissist does.
HG is da bomb! He makes you feel completely at ease. Totally judgement free if that’s what you’re worried about. Very professional, a wonderful listener and EXTREMELY thorough. You WILL NOT regret a consultation with the Master. I promise, it’s the best money I’ve EVER spent.
I highly recommend you do consult him if you can. He is very respectful but direct and quite tactful actually. At the end of the day… The label is not the most important but the consequences of the behaviours on you is really what you ought to consider.
People are really smart on this blog , nevertheless they felt for a Narc so don’t throw rocks at you.
Ugotit
Don’t be afraid to speak with HG, he is very professional. The first consult I had with him, I cried. He walked me through it and was able to help me. I see the world differently then most Empaths. I can not speak with other Empaths and they understand. Yet HG understood what I was describing and able to help me. I was impressed he understood, yet with this understanding I knew I “met” a man that not only understood his own, understood us.
You can always go with an email consult if the audio is to much for you. It is worth the time and the money. You will not find another who is as accurate as HG.
Thank you Twilight.
Can u clarify at some points like this u say that narc is pretending but elsewhere I believe u said the narc is infatuated and thinks he’s in love so during the golden period is he outright lying and knows he’s lying when he says he loves you or does he think he really does love her at the time due to infatuation
It is a lie because he does not love you. It is part of the illusion that is created. The narcissist however does not realise it is an illusion, but it is because it is not genuine, it is not authentic.
Thank you I guess that makes me feel a little better that at the time he was in the golden period he at least thought he was in love at least he wasn’t conscienciously lying I know he doesn’t love me but it is good to know at one point he thought he did
This one hurts…. always has. Some of them are hard to deal with.
But THE PAINFUL TRUTH that will save your life!
OMFG.. ……
😥 💔 😞 💔 😠 💔
Im at a loss for words .
HG,
This is a powerful post. I too am speechless.
Have you ever wanted to really feel? Do you ever try? A narc I was once involved with constantly told me to “fake it until you make it”.
I do feel. Just differently.
No matter how many times I read this in all it’s different forms, he hurts as much reading it this time as the first time.
The very fact that they PURPOSELY SET Out To Deceive you and bring you harm and NEVER, EVER felt an OUNCE of love for you……… 😣😞
right, the big con.