The Final Discard
“He told me he never wanted to see me again so long as he was alive. That is it. This time it really is over.”
“She told me I was useless, pathetic, that she hated me and she would call the police if I came near her again. I don’t understand what is going on, but all I know that is the absolute end.”
“He made it clear that there is no future for us, that he cannot stand the sight of me and that he wants me packed and gone by morning. This is it. It really is it, this time.”
“She has taken everything and left me a letter explaining that she cannot do it any more, that she needs to find herself, whatever that means and there is no future for us together. I knew this was coming, I could tell, I have been given the final discard.”
The final discard. The curtain of conclusion. The guillotine of totality.
It really is over.
So often victims of our kind distinguish between being discarded and then there is (await dramatic music) the FINAL discard. There is being kicked to one side by us but the prospect of being hoovered back in and then there is the final discard whereby you have been removed from your association with us and it is the end of the entanglement and there will be no more engagement between you and I.
Victims often consider declaring that this time is the final discard and they do this for two reasons, which, interestingly are conflicting.
The first reason is that they desperately hope that it is not the final discard at all and that when they explain to whoever is listening to them recount the minute my minute dynamic of this final discard, that the person will tell them that it is not. The victim is hoping that the listener will provide some cogent reason, some piece of evidence which will explain that it cannot be the final discard and thus fulfil that which blazes at the heart of all empathic individuals; hope.
The victim does not want the entanglement to end. He or she cannot bear the pain. They do not want this to be their exile, their abandonment or their expulsion. They want to remain with us but fear that this time it really is the end and they are crying out for somebody to tell them that it is not, just so they can cling to a hope.
The second reason is because the victim does indeed hope that it is over so they are freed from our monstrous clutches. They want that to be the end. The victim, either at the time or sometime after this final discard, having gained some knowledge and understanding, ascertains that what they did caused significant wounding (although often they are wrong about that) and that this wounding was to such a degree that it sent us packing with our tail between our legs, skulking away, broken, humiliated and shame pouring from us, so that we will never, ever dare risk returning to you. The victim concludes that what they did has sent us packing and we will not darken their doorstep or inbox again. It is an understandable conclusion to reach.
There is no such thing as a final discard.
There is no such thing as a discard.
There is only ever dis-engagement.
This is because in our minds you belong to us and the Narcissistic Relationship lasts until you die or we die. That is only when finality applies to our connection. You are our property. You are our fuelling appliance. You are good and then you are bad. You are of use and then you are of no use. And then you are of use again.
We have invested time and energy in you. We want to reap the benefits time and time again.
If you are our primary source, we will dis-engage with you. We paint you black and do not want anything more to do with you at that time. It may appear as if we have ‘discarded’ you, but it is merely the termination of the Formal Relationship. You are not our girlfriend, partner, wife any longer. The Narcissistic Relationship persists. We do not draw fuel from you, we do not take your character traits, we do not take your residual benefits. You are deleted as we enter a golden period with a new primary source.
If you are an intimate secondary source, we will dis-engage with you. You are placed on the shelf, back in the cupboard, ready for the next time we want to engage with you. You are not deleted. You are just not required. For now. There is no discard. You usually are not devalued. If you are, then you have offended us and there will be a dis-engagement and a termination of the Formal Relationship of booty call, friend with benefits, shag partner.
If you are a non-intimate secondary source, we dis-engage with you. You are placed on the shelf again until the next time we wish to engage with you. Most NISSs do not notice this happen because they regard it as a natural lull in between meeting up, speaking and so forth. Again, it is rare for the NISS to be devalued, but if you are, then you have offended us and the Formal Relationship is terminated. You are no longer our friend.
If you are a tertiary source be it intimate or non-intimate, you will be put to one side as we dis-engage. There is no Formal Relationship to terminate. We may return to you or we may not. It depends on our fuel needs.
Thus, you need to understand that there is only ever a dis-engagement. The Narcissistic Relationship persists. If there is no devaluation, we consider the Formal Relationship to remain in place – thus you remain our booty call, our friend – but we have no need to call on you at the present time. If there is devaluation, then the Formal Relationship is over – you are no longer our wife, you are not our boyfriend, you are not the friend or friend with benefits and we dis-engage.
It is usually us who decide on this dis-engagement. Whether there is devaluation and dis-engagement or just dis-engagement, it is invariably us that makes this decision. If you reject us then it is an escape and of course we will endeavour to hold on to you.
What though of the situation where you have actually wounded us considerably, either as we dis-engaged or more likely, when you make your escape? Surely that brings about finality? That must mean we do not want to engage with you any longer because you have mortally wounded us and as a consequence if you did this as we dis-engaged with you, then we will never return yes? If you did it as part of the escape you implemented, then is it not correct to state that we will not hoover you?
No.
As mentioned many times, there is always a risk that we will come back and hoover you. There needs to be a Hoover Trigger activated by you entering a sphere of influence. Thereafter, the Hoover Execution Criteria has to be achieved. This includes various matters to balance, some increasing the risk of meeting the criteria, others diminishing that risk.
This includes
- the type of narcissist you are dealing with
- how your fuel was regarded
- whether you provided character traits
- whether you provided residual benefits
- whether you are with somebody new
- whether you have recovered from a position of being broken or not
- how easy it is to contact you
- how easy it is to make physical contact with you
- whether we know you have been lamenting our dis-engagement
- whether you have been angry about our dis-engagement
- whether there are outstanding issues – money, property etc
- whether there are obstacles
- whether there is a risk of wounding
Thus you can see the savage wounding you may have inflicted on the last occasion we interacted is but a consideration in the criteria. Yes, it may well be an important consideration when viewed against the other criteria but it will not itself amount to a final discard.
No matter how damning we were about you, how we may well have used words such as “never”, “do not”, “forever” or “always”, we are pragmatists. It is the practical need of fuel which governs all that we do. Contradiction and hypocrisy do not concern us. We can perform a 180 degree turn, a volte face or a complete turnaround and it matters not. Those were yesterday’s words.
We do not discard.
We will always come back IF the Hoover Trigger is activated and the Hoover Execution Criteria are met.
There is no final discard.
And that is my final word on the matter.
29 thoughts on “The Final Discard”
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I met my narc when I was 14 didn’t know he was a narcissist then. He would hang out a couple weeks then disappear for months without a word then just show back up. That lasted 2 yrs then I got pregnant and kicked out. He came back but I wasn’t there. I contacted him when our daughter was 6months old we argued and he said I was obsessed so I never contacted him again and he had no way of finding me. Till 17 yrs later when Myspace and facebook happened. I don’t even remember who friended whom. But we started talking and he wanted to see his daughter we we’re both married. I started hanging out with his entire family wife parents siblings. I talked to him all day everyday he even told me about other women he snuck around with. About 6 months later he and I became intimate. I was immediately devalued. He started cutting contact with me then I found out I was pregnant and it was and instant discard he blocked me everywhere. Although I was still talking to his family. 3 months later the day after his wife’s bday party I was at. Hell I made the cake, lol. He broke his block to send both me and my daughter the most vile messages. I had enough I have BPD so I’m very reactive and I told his wife everyrhing she didn’t beleibe me so I sent her his messages. He told his family I raped him so I showed his messages to them too. Him and his wife renewed their vows me and my husband separated. When our son was born I contacted the narc on a private email we had not knowing if he saw it but he was waiting because he read it within an hour. He didn’t reply so I asked him to say something and we talked about 3 months and he said he never wanted to see the baby and cut contact. 3 yrs later his daughter with his wife messaged me very sad saying she missed us. Not a lot I could say. I wrote him on our private email to tell him again not thinking he ever went there anymore but heard back in less than a month. We talked for a while then it turned to arguments so I shut down that email account so it could no longer be accessed. He made a fake fb a few months later to msg me. He wanted to see me but I just put him off I didn’t want to hear it. Eventually I blocked that too. So a few months later he made another fake fb still wanting to see me this went on over 2 yrs. I wouldn’t see him . I ended up moving near him so he ramped up to driving by my house. I was living with someone so I agreed to see him figuring as per his past he’d get his fix then go away. That didn’t happen he wanted to keep seeing me for next 6 months I only agreed on 2 occasions the rest of time I put him off with excuses. Then he triangulates me with a 3rd woman that was on my friends list from mutual activities I had know idea he had been talking to her for past 4 yrs. He told her intimate details and showed her compromising pics of me which she then sent to my boyfriend. Thankfully I intercepted the message before he saw it. I flipped on him. I degraded insulted and threatened him, told him all about NPD, but we still continued talking but I got devalued and he started pulling back. Honestly I didn’t want her to win was only reason I was still talking to him. Then he seemed to revalue me very briefly and we even planned to meet again. Then just as suddents he wrote saying he was done cheating was goijg to tell his wife and get help and shut down all his fake fb accts nothing I say would convince him to continue contact with me. I told him his NPD was showing he would never tell his wife anything, he’d never stop cheating he has a harem of like 150 women, that he’s probably doing this because he’s seeing one of them, that he’s told me this same story 4 times already and it’s old. He said he promises on his daughters life there won’t be a 5th and then blocked me. I then wrote his other fake acct and told him I wasn’t even arguing with him trying to get him to talk or anything. I didn’t want to fight but if he wanted one I’d oblige. Told him to do what he wants with my pics he can’t hurt me with them and if he tries I’ll bury him where he stands. He blocked it. I also had a fake acct. So I write him with that one and reminded him he walked out on his son and should have never been forgiven and that if tries anything against me I have all his messages his compromising pics and his video. Then I blocked him and blocked him back on the others. He did shut down the fake fbs but the Messengers are still active just blocked. He won’t ever use the real fb because of his wife. I don’t know what type of source he considered me but I’m pretty positive he’s gone for good. I won’t enter any of his spheres and if he thinks about me I’ll be painted black and more of a threat than a supply.
Im a narc magnet.. once i start seeing the behavior i escape. I have never been hoovered. I just tell them what they have done that is not acceptable (usually I can tell when they start looking for the replacement) and tell them good luck and they never bother with me again.. and im good with that. Im guessing it is because I tell them I know what they are up to??
Is a devaluation when of an ISS then not equal to that the discard is indeed final? That the disengagement is final? If the formal relation is over the ISS will see that and will not accept bread-crumbs and the ISS will avoid initiating any contact. Conversely, is it at all likely that the Narc would reengage after devaluation, disengagement and a termination of the formal relation, when it is an ISS and not a IPPS?
No, there is no such thing as a final discard as explained in the article.
Many appliances do indeed accept bread crumbs and either initiate contact or respond to it (I accept some do not) but many do because of the effect of their rampant emotional thinking.
‘’If you are an intimate secondary source, we will dis-engage with you. You are placed on the shelf, back in the cupboard, ready for the next time we want to engage with you. You are not deleted. You are just not required. For now. There is no discard. You usually are not devalued. If you are, then you have offended us and there will be a dis-engagement and a termination of the Formal Relationship of booty call, friend with benefits, shag partner.’’
Question: Is a devaluation when of an ISS then not equal to that the discard is indeed final? That the disengagement is final? If the formal relation is over the ISS will see that and will not accept bread-crumbs and the ISS will avoid initiating any contact. Conversely, is it at all likely that the Narc would reengage after devaluation, disengagement and a termination of the formal relation, when it is an ISS and not a IPPS?
three years w him and countless break ups followed by Hoovers and him telling me I’m too good for him but he can’t breathe or eat or think without me. I saw him thru a divorce, rehab, AA. I gave everything when he gave nothing. He swore his problems from the past that I had told him were narcissism were actually his alcoholism and he was fixing that for us. I drove him to AA meetings when he lost his license due to DUI. Well, he was cheating on me w a girl 15 years younger at AA the whole time. I didn’t find out about her until two months after he forced me to end things. He absolutely convinced me I was emotionally abusive and a risk to his sobriety. Anyway, he’s a lawyer. And he uses his connections to torture people. As soon as I found out about the new supply and (like an idiot) contacted her to warn her, he filed for an emergency order of protection against me. It was based on an affadavit that was 100% lies, but he got a judge (who he knew) to sign it. So that should guarantee no contact for 2 years. But then after 6 months of ZERO contact w anyone in his life, he served me w a lawsuit for defamation and emotional distress. He wanted $250,000. My attorney told him she would be getting his medical and psych records, bank records and deposing everyone in his life. He had the case dismissed immediately. But this scares me. It’s like I won this round. And he can’t handle ending w me winning. What do you think I should expect? I am the only woman in a loooong list of past women who he wouldn’t Hoover after “final discard.” He’s still with the young new supply from AA. Will he leave me alone now? It’s been over a year since we’ve spoken but the lawsuit was just dismissed last week. There are 18 months left on the order of protection. I have been diagnosed w CPTSD and I live in fear of the next thing. Any thoughts on what I should expect?
The IT I was with for over 8 years has a tattoo meaning love on ITS ring finger. After the disengagement I asked what he was going to do about the tattoo It replied, “I’ll always love you and I’m going to get all my fingers tattooed”. Last time I saw IT, no more tattoos on any fingers. All I know is WOW to the new IPPS for believing the BS story told to her. Hey, we must all have been desperate in the love bombing stage. I obviously fell for it. No ring, but was told going through seperation when we met. Started off with a lie. Crazy thing is I wasn’t even that interested in IT. My life was good then and his was a mess. The new supply wasn’t even aware of me until I ran into them at a bar He left and I heard him say, I couldn’t ever make her happy. This was after several hovers attempts and IT still had items left at my place. No more hovers since last July. Last I heard they were engaged or maybe married, within 1 yr of their relationship. I would never have married IT, asked 3 x’s. Oh, first hover attempt was IT wanting me to give IT closure so IT could move on after IT left.
My ex tried to hoover before easter. March is a time he like to hoover his past victims. I know this, because when I was IPPS, I started experiencing long silent treatments and devaluations in February and it only got worst in March. The good holidays were over, no need to be in a serious relationship anymore. I did not know at the time what was going on. But here we were, years later… he suddenly wants to pay child support, he is complimenting my hard work parenting our child. We are not even legally allowed to be alone together. I knew what was up. When he started to fish for information about my relationship status, and checking to see if I had any residual benefits to offer, I found it very annoying, and cut him off from all communication- even regarding our child. I had to resume though after the holiday was over, concerning pick up/drop offs. He is now trying to Malign Hoover me to punish me for his benign hoovers. I am now painted black…again.
ALWAYS VIGILANT
HG do I still need to change my phone number if I am a year out and there’s no way I would go back with him? He disengaged from me last March and has hovered twice (that I know of) and both times I completely ignored. My entire family is against him and I am not the type to give second chances so I am wondering if I still need to go through changing my number if I am sure I am done with him.
It would be a prudent step to do so.
I actually thought I had been finally discarded by my narc. It is hard to escape him, as I work with him. We began a romantic relationship during working together. Long story short, in February he actually called CPS on me! He hired a girl to be his helper during work a couple of days after this (to I guess pour salt in my wound). During this time he was still contacting me to get me to see him. I kept asking a friend “why is he still trying to control and see me? Why doesn’t he focus on controlling her??” (Still would like the answer to this question since I was no longer the primary). Come to find out he terminated her (not sure why) and the day I find this out it’s almost like he tries to pick up with me where we left off until I upset him Friday. So now I guess I am getting the silent treatment (which I don’t find much as a punishment anymore. More of a relief).
For fuel.
(The comments are all back to front)
Blocked / unblocked, told i’m dead and miserable, then told how to be his obedient slave and then i’ll be happy because i am not rebelling against my ‘design’.
At least mine is honest, pretentiously didactic even.
Human Design?
I hope you meet someone NEW who loves your socks off ❤️
Ugotit … I am sure you can write the scenario if you go back in.
Question for you ? How long did you stay back in after the hoovers that followed the discards? Is it true that the whole cycle just go faster and faster each time? Did you get golden back? Was it as golden?
I understand if you don’t want to give details.
Absolutely got shorter and shorter the first hoover back stayed good only a few months then I was discarded again the second hoover back stayed good only a few days but we remained together 4 months and I finally left him but yeah and each hoover attempt was less dramatic the first one was an all out love bombing festival the second hoover was a mini love bomb and the last was pathetic the cycles of good times was shorter each time and the devaluation came quicker each time Im pretty sure if I went back again I’d probably be discarded within days
Ugotit … I am laughing so much .. it is hilarious … maybe a few hours and it would all be ok !! :))
The other reason some of us proclaim its over part is because the more we say it, the more we absorb the message ourselves as it serves to help kill out own affection. As a result of my reaching out, he did respond and even tried a mini seduction. I responded at first, felt momentary elation, then reminded myself of what he had said, that its over and there was nothing between us. Ever. And I used those words to puncture the momentary high. I brought back my anger and pushed until he finally confessed to the core lie. Then it was truly over. 13 months over…. and can’t wait until I hit 2 years.
Hello HG,
Please could you answer the following for me regarding the narcissist and infatuation?
The MRN dis engages the IPPS thereby bringing an end to the FR. He may hoover for fuel at some point in the future.
1) Is it possible that he may want to reinstate the FR because he becomes re infatuated with her? Not because of the Prime Aims or hoover fuel but because he really believes her to be “the one” again? Can that happen and if so, is this a brand new golden period rather than a respite period?
The MRN puts the IPSS on the shelf. (In this case my understanding is the FR has not ended)
2) When he takes her off the shelf and, in this example, decides to promote her to IPPS, is this because of
re infatuation believing her to be ” the one” or just convenience? Is this a continuation of the paused golden period?
Thank you HG
Comprehensive and crystal clear. Those who claim they will never be hoovered are fooling themselves, and as per the article-holding out a for flicker of hope and the attention of others. If they were not, there would simply be no need to declare it to anyone else.
Yeah your right discarded twice hoovered twice discarded him got hoovered again for the third time Friday but this time not going back three times was enough I mean we had three tries already at a relationship I’m not going for a fourth
“This is because in our minds you belong to us and the Narcissistic Relationship lasts until you die or we die.”
I didn’t believe this until recently. My former relationship with my ex ended over 19 years ago. The last 7 years since my daughter turned 18 years old, he hasn’t bothered me. I moved on with my life, but apparently he hasn’t.
About three weeks ago when explaining narcissism to my daughter. She informed me that her dad still talks about me all the time. He won’t let me go.
So it is forever.
Hg, I need help from you. 1 month ago, after 1 year of disengagement/silent treatment he sent me a “goodbye” message because he left his job. He wrote:”hey how are you? I would have said bye to you face to face. Even a simple goobye, maybe it would have been difficult no to hug you. You have been and will always be important to me. Write/call me whenever you want in every moment”. Then he disappeared. I did not answer. I don’t feel the need to write him. I blocked his number after he left the work. No fb friendship. No contact. He is covert/upper middle rage. My answer is:what does it mean? Will he come back even after my no answer?
It is a hoover.
I am at T plus 5 days since leaving my Narc. I crumbled on the NC by day 3 by mutual friends pressuring me into speaking to him….as of course after almost 5 years of being on and off together (I always got hoovered back in), he “deserved” a full explanation as to why I removed myself and my children under a cloak of such dramatic secrecy….he’s massively hoovering me at the moment but now is pissed that I have portrayed him in a negative light to friends…”Abuse? What lies!” Trying hard to stay strong but just feel like an emotional wreck.
You can do this. Your a strong woman. I was exactly where you r at 3 weeks ago and I feel so much better today. Use your logical mind and emotions/feelings are not facts. xo