Why Must The Narcissist Always Mess With Your Mind?
The sudden silences. The periods of no communication when before the airwaves crackled with the send and return exchange of text messages. The repeated calls throughout the day to talk of something and to talk of nothing, now gone and empty. The absence of a morning greeting. The absence of any greeting. Just absence. Cold and unremitting silences which stretch from hours, to days, to weeks. What was once there has been banished. What’s it all for? Perhaps he just wants some time alone?
The inability to ever say sorry. The frustrating failure to ever issue an apology, it is as if those words cannot be formed or do they manifest but something causes them to freeze so they never find the light of day? The denial of fault, the deflection of blame, the resolute and forthright rejection of any accountability. All you want is to hear her say it the once, to say sorry, to hear that admission and sense some humanity exists there after all. What’s it all for? Perhaps she believes that I will think less of her if she apologises to me?
The never-ending carousel of blame and accusation. The merry-go-round of that dizzying discussion which never reaches fruition. The whirling array of “I never said that”, “you do the same”, “you can’t keep accusing me” and so much more leaves you disorientated and nauseous. Just once, just one time, can’t something be resolved without this round-the-houses farce? Must it always be this way? Why is nothing ever put to bed? Why is everything buried alive? What’s it all for? Maybe he just doesn’t understand me, perhaps I need to be clearer about what I mean?
The broken engagements. The no-shows. The promises to meet and then the failure to appear leaving you upset, annoyed and miserable. He promised. He promised that this would not happen again. The frequent ringing and all you receive is the notification that the cellphone you are calling is not available right now. Where is he? Has he forgotten? He cannot have done, you spoke to him only four hours ago to remind him of the arrangements, especially after what happened last time. You miss him and you were so looking forward to spending the night together after a period of not being able to do so. Surely he should have remembered? The chasing messages “Where are you?”, “Are you near?”, “I have been waiting twenty minutes, where are you?”, “What’s happening, I am worried”. What’s it all for? Perhaps he has had to work late, or he is stuck on the subway or he has run out of charge for his ‘phone?
The repeated alterations to arrangements. The tears, the shouting, the disappointments, the rolling out of false explanations to try to ease their upset. Yes, he did say he would take you out today, he must be caught up with something else, why don’t we do something instead? How can he let the children down like this? The turning up without agreement and demanding to see the children. Forcing you into a corner in order to placate him so the children are not scared. You back off again and again. Always you making the compromises. Always you trying to explain away the increasingly unexplainable. The arguments about the arrangements, the lies about what was arranged, the confusion over details. What’s it all for? Is he going mad? Maybe you are?
The insults and slurs, the nasty words, the harsh put-downs and the savage comments. The vicious text message tirades sent at 3am, the blistering verbal attack down the telephone, the dressing-down in person just before a night out. The personal cutting remarks, the swear-words, the name-calling and the labelling. So hurtful, so demeaning, so upsetting. What’s it all for? Perhaps he just doesn’t love you anymore?
The chopping and changing. Last week’s steak had to be well done and now it has to be bloody. How were you expected to know, but you were? The eruption and the tantrum which followed demonstrated that you were the one to blame. Red is good, now it is bad. No soda with the vodka, but now he is banging doors and shouting because there is no soda. Sit there, no there, be quiet, say something, leave me alone, you never speak to me much these days, do it like that, no don’t do it like that, who taught you to do this it is brilliant, who taught you to do that you are an amateur, back and forth, push and pull, right then wrong. What’s it all for? Perhaps he just cannot remember or just wants to keep changing for the sake of it? Perhaps the pressure of work is really getting to him these days?
The argument over nothing. The argument out of nowhere. The argument when everything was going well. Why is she angry all of the time? Nothing is ever right but rather than discuss it in a civil manner and be reasonable with one another, there always has to be a fight. She could start an argument in an empty room. She seems to thrive on creating a scene. So many days, so many occasions, so many events all spoiled by the epic tantrum which she throws. What’s it all for? Perhaps she has anger management issues?
The sudden bouquet of flowers. The expensive perfume. The sudden trip away to somewhere exotic and exciting. The sensitive poem carefully written in copper plate and placed under your pillow. The sudden proclamations of love. The dizzying romance. The grand gestures. What’s it all for? He must really, really love me.
The accusations, the challenges, the pointed finger and the sneer. The demands for the truth when you are telling the truth. The inquisition and the interrogations over anything and nothing. The way you answered the phone, the way you wear your dress, the friends you said you were visiting, the time you came home. Always the questions, the allegations of lying, cheating and skullduggery. Every time this happens when you want to do something and he never seems to realise he does all of these things himself. What’s it all for? Perhaps he is just possessive because he cares so much?
The lies. The tales. The fabrications. Every day a new boast which is so outrageous that she must surely know she is telling a porky pie. The flagrant omissions of the truth. The repeated protestations that this is the truth even when you know she is lying again. The lies when the truth would serve her better. The inability to know she is lying. The fact she really does seem to believe her lies are her truth. What’s it all for? Perhaps she is just a born liar and a fantasist?
The disappearances whenever you need help. The excuses that he has something else more important when you require support. The sudden coldness when you call and explain how you have been bullied at work again. The distant look and the eye-rolling as you try to explain why you are crying. The sudden lack of availability when you need a hand. The fact you must fend for yourself even though you are too weak to stand and feel dizzy. The shirking of responsibility, the rejection of assistance and the distancing when you are injured. What’s it all for? Perhaps he just cannot stand the sight of blood or does not know what to do when somebody is ill?
The flirting, the staying out late, the drunkenness, the drugs, the gambling, the smell of perfume on his clothes, the receipts from lap-dancing bars, the hours and hours and hours spent watching porn online, the obsession with his video games, the sudden and mysterious trips away. What’s it all for? Perhaps he has an addictive personality?
The tears, the pleading, the begging, the demand for one more chance, the assurances that it will never happen again, the promises to get help, the panic in his eyes and the wailing from his mouth. The neediness, the repeated requests to make things right, the long involved explanations, the repetition of how we should be together and how good we are for one another, the promises, the future, oh the promises of what the future can hold for us both. What’s it all for? Perhaps he is broken and you should not walk away from someone in such need?
Maybe he struggles to express himself?
Maybe he just has never had anybody stand up to him?
Maybe she has problems with trusting people?
Maybe he is just disorganised?
Maybe he struggles with being a single parent?
Maybe he cannot help how he feels?
Maybe he is indecisive?
Maybe he feels unappreciated?
Maybe he really does love you?
Maybe that’s his way of loving you?
Maybe she is just different?
Maybe he doesn’t love you anymore?
Maybe he can’t help but feel jealous because he really does love you?
Maybe she tells lies to make herself feel better?
Maybe he struggles with responsibility?
Maybe she is tired?
Maybe he is lost?
Maybe she is over-worked?
Maybe he is stressed?
Maybe you don’t know what you are entangled with?
Maybe you make too many excuses for them?
What’s it all for?
Fuel.
29 thoughts on “Why Must The Narcissist Always Mess With Your Mind?”
Vent Your Spleen! (Please see the Rules in Formal Info)
This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.
HG
So comprehensive.
This article says it all.
At first it vindicates and validates …i.e. we are not crazy…and later this serves to cement the resolve to stay away.
Well written…a lot of detail and work to have focused the crux of it all into one complete and unrelenting piece of work.
It is exhausting to read in as much as it evokes the memory upon recognition..but it is superb.
It is the first turn of the key on the journey toward understanding for some, and it serves as the last turn of the key which locks the door to protect newly found freedom for others.
I have a story to add here that’s been upsetting me a lot these past few days and that literally sent shivers down my spine when I suddenly remembered it now and saw it in a completely new light. It has to do with strange reactions from him when I expected support but I now realise it has further implications than that. Anyway, last year at about this time I discovered at three separate occasions with a few weeks to a month in between that someone had put large and sharp pieces of glass in my handbag. The same kind of glass every time; dark, thin, sharp. All three occasions were connected to my work since I used a special bag for work that I often at the end of the week emptied and sometimes even turned upside down over the sink. So I cleaned it in between.
The first time I was at work and tried to find something in my bag when I cut myself and found this large piece of glass there. I was confused, I tried to remember if I’d had something there that might’ve broken; but I don’t carry around glass ever. Anyway; I found some more pieces when I emptied it and I let it go because I really thought I was confused. The second time a few weeks later I emptied the bag over the sink and found a few pieces again; then I thought they must’ve been stuck somewhere in the inside lining or in a pocket so I let it go again. The third time though I couldn’t let it go. I came home from work and put my hand in the pocket where I have my keys and instead of getting hold of my keys I suddenly had a really large and sharp piece of glass in my hand. I still remember how frightened I was. And my thoughts went of course to work since I used the bag there and sometimes left it unattended. But I know the people I work with well, some of them are private friends, and still I saw no other alternative. Was it a joke; a threat? I don’t have enemies and these kind of things don’t happen to me. I decided to speak to my boss, but first I wanted to talk to my ex. He was my protector; it still amazes that even after all we’d been through by then I still saw him as my safety in the world; he’d always promised he would look out for me and I needed his opinion and his support. His reaction was really strange though. Instead of supporting me he got really angry with me; he called me a drama queen, he said I was confused and crazy; he said I’d made it all up or that I was imagining things and then he just left and didn’t ever want to speak about it again. I remember being even more confused by his behaviour, but I then with lots of shame because I hate causing trouble and because my story was strange, I told my boss and she took it all very seriously and informed everybody at work; she even said that if it happened again it would be reported to the police. It never happened again though; it stopped then and there.
And all this time I never ever thought about the one person that had complete access to my bag: my ex. Not even afterwards during all these months did I ever contemplate him as a suspect. Now it seems obvious that it was a classic case of gaslighting? He made me look insane, he scared me and made me lose my face at work? I sat down last week and went through old text messages from him and I could ascertain that he’d been in my house each and every time right before it happened. It makes me so angry now. And it only goes to show how delusional and how immersed I was in his reality; I never thought about this possibility before. It’s crazy making.
Catherine,
Thank you for sharing your experience here. After reading your post, it was pretty clear to me that your partner put the shards of glass in your bag to unsettle and frighten you. And then, when you reached out to him for support, he became angry & blamed you for making too much of it.
Please be clear about this..he is manipulating your emotions. Please take care of yourself, keep your bag away from him and do not trust him. It’s terrible and very dangerous to find shards of glass in your handbag. You could have seriously cut yourself. What kind of deranged person would put broken glass in someone’s bag like that?! Please take steps to protect yourself Catherine.
I think we as empaths don’t fully suspect or realise just how manipulative and dangerous these people are because our own natures would never even contemplate doing such a thing.
I’m really glad your boss took it seriously and took immediate steps to stop it happening. Please don’t feel that you lost face at work. It seems to me that your boss respects your views and cares enough to take protective action.
I can relate to what you say Catherine. I think we keep giving our abusers the benefit of the doubt because our boundaries are either weak or have been eroded over time. I know that’s the case in my situation with my family. I’ve found that when I consciously took steps to stop them from from feeling free to take from me, whether that was my belongings, my time, or my peace of mind, I started to actively protect myself. It was difficult at first, because my mind had been so conditioned into thinking that it was ok for them to do those things. It wasn’t ok. It was definitely not ok.
Please strengthen your own boundaries Catherine. When you do, you will start to place distance between yourself and your partner’s manipulations.
Hi Catherine,
At first I thought you were still living with your ex-partner and still exposed to his manipulations. I’m sorry if my comment didn’t make much sense.
Upon reading your comment a second time, I now see that you were describing something that happened a year ago and that your partner is now an ex. Thank goodness for that. I’m very glad you’re no longer “immersed in his reality”. You deserve so much better.
Best wishes to you Catherine, and I hope you continue to realise your own self-worth and continue to strengthen your boundaries.
WiserNow,
Thank you so much for your kindness. I just saw your comments now; sorry that I didn’t reply earlier. And yes, you’re right, I’m not with him anymore; instead I’m 8 months without him and healing from those horrible years with him. And I think too that he was the one who did this to me; what scares me most is that back then I didn’t even consider him as possibly guilty and even after our breakup last summer I haven’t considered it until now. I guess it was more convenient for me not to think too much then and this event, even though I remember it as very traumatic and terrifying, seems to have slipped my mind until I cleaned out my wardrobe a few weeks ago and suddenly saw that bag there where I put it back then, not wanting to use it anymore. Our minds certainly play tricks on us.
What I think of now more than anything else though is the question of his awareness. I’ve healed pretty well these last months; I’m in therapy and I’m here and my boundaries are getting stronger again. Right now I battle more with grieving the loss of self I’ve suffered from being with him than with any kind of longing for him. But during this healing I’ve managed to come to terms with it all by considering him not really fully aware of the horror and the pain he inflicted on me. I’ve seen his behaviour as defense mechanisms he couldn’t control; he considered himself to be the one good person in the world who had to defend himself with manipulative behaviour against the evil of others and I genuinely have believed that his reality is so upside down that he doesn’t get the big picture of him being the evil abuser. Now I don’t know. Putting shards of sharp glass in my handbag equals awareness of an evil act. How could that be self defense?
Oh my, Catherine… what an interesting example of gaslighting!
I’m amazed at all of the ways that they try to make us think we’re the crazy ones. And unless you work at a plate glass manufacturing company… you know that your assumptions are spot on, sister! His odd reaction once you mentioned this bizarre event says so much.
You could have been seriuosly injured, so I find this to be passive-aggressive-cruelty. Thank the Good Lord that you are now safe and free.
Still, it simply hurts knowing that they want to hurt us.
(If you ever want to seek revenge, I have a few suggestions on where you could place your own shards of glass. 😉)
BurntKrispyKeen,
thank you. Yes, I guess it must’ve been him; I’ll never know for sure though. When it suddenly stopped I thought it was because my boss had informed my colleagues and the guilty party realised he/she shouldn’t continue with it. But of course I talked to my ex the day before I spoke to my boss so he was informed that I’d noticed it too. He must’ve wondered what took me so long though; I tried to logically explain both first times to myself and only the third time did I come running to him. I don’t know if he wanted to physically hurt me; but the glass was sharp and I did cut myself in the finger once; I think though that he wanted to destabilise me; to project his own inner turmoil of emptiness, hateful emotions and “insanity” onto me; he wanted to make me look stupid and not in control in front of others and he certainly wanted to scare me. Actually I had a conversation a few days ago with a colleague whom I have confided in now lately because I wanted to talk to someone about my suspicions and even apologise to her because I realise people at work felt accused back then when it happened. She told me she suspected even then that my ex was involved, but she hadn’t said anything not to make me upset or angry. The thing is I didn’t even know people around knew what I was going through then; I only ever talked to one person and that was my sister. That only goes to show how perceptive people around us are and what a great thing that is.
And revenge with glass? Hugs
Hi Catherine,
Your insight is excellent. And you seem to be doing a solid job in rebuilding your life post-narcissist.
But isn’t it funny how certain events will pop in our head, even years later? Maybe it has to do with our improved clarity?
Yet, whenever we cannot say for certain that our suspicions are correct, that little seed of doubt haunts us…
We may never know undeniably if your generous narc was responsible, but at least we know that he was responsible for enough OTHER deeds to realize what you were up against. 😛
(But isn’t it frustrating, Catherine, to think of the time we’ve wasted before knowing for sure!?)
That’s the clarity I hope for the others who are just starting to seek answers. I hope that they struggle no more to understand what they are up against.
While I am STILL perplexed with narcissism, that is what helped me so much… just finally accepting that mine is a genuine narcissist. (I wanted to resist that title so badly! Being on this site gave me that insight. Thank you, HG Tudor.)
And thank Goodness, Catherine, you’ve long ago worked out what you were dealing with, innocent of the glass misdeed or not…
It’s telling though, that your colleague was suspicious of him being the culprit… confirms to me that narcissists are never as good at hiding their true colors (at least not as well as they like to think).
I had a narcissistic boss once who thought she was as sly as a fox. I thought she had everyone fooled. She was witty and gregarious, so I wondered if I was the only one who saw her inconsistencies, along with the other typical traits. However, once I started to speak to my co-workers, I found that pretty much EVERYbody else saw what I saw! I guess everyone was just being nice to the boss because it was better to suck up than to get shut down?
But it is a long journey, isn’t it, to heal from their abuse? I related to what you wrote to WiserNow. It’s as if they take a piece of us that we can never get back. I used to be happy-go-lucky… even sometimes asked by others what I was smiling about? I guess they didn’t share in my joy; they probably thought, “What is she on?”
But I didn’t need a drug… I was just happy to be alive. Now… I don’t know… it’s different. I allowed his treatment to change me. But I AM fighting that each and every day.
So best wishes, Catherine, as we find ourselves again… maybe even better than before! 💖
BurntKrispyKeen, you’re so right in everything you say. These events pop up into our heads long afterwards; maybe it’s because we need to be ready for them before they materialise again and to be ready for looking at them from a different angle. I’m glad I’d managed to forget this story until now; in the beginning of grief it wouldn’t have done me any good. Now I’m just angry and everything I remember from that relationship makes me realise I’m lucky to have escaped. Interesting story with your boss; most of us tend to pick up things even though we may doubt it.
But yes, it takes such a long time to get over this kind of abuse, doesn’t it? It’s psychological rape. It’s not that we long for them anymore; having passed through those early months of confusion and pain stricken grief we’ve reached the clarity you mention and for me he could in the end be a narcissist, a psychopath or a common abuser; I don’t care; I do know that he mistreated me beyond belief and I don’t want to be a part of his world anymore. But then there’s the anger and the emptiness in me and so far that’s the hardest part for me to deal with. I also used to be carefree and I always had a smile on my face; now I’m guarded, I mistrust, I’m scared of ever being vulnerable again and sometimes I feel like he stole my happiness and joy from me and left me with being some kind of copy of him. Like a hollow emptiness; like an echo of what I used to be. It’s the worst struggle; this one; not the one where the longing for him made me almost sick; where I’m at now I feel like I know what I need to know about what happened to me and about the dynamics that led me here. After the first immediate phase of grief we tend to look for knowledge and gaining knowledge becomes an obsession by its own right; but now instead there’s just the rest of my life and the wounds to be dealt with and I realise it takes time. Is it like that for you too?
In LNP and hypnosis they say that unconscious becomes conscious when we are ready for it . Our brain would have a natural auto-screen that would judge when we are ready to process information that comes to our consciousness.
My mom was telling me about Narc number 3 things lately – she had read him well- she said – I could not tell you these things because you would have not believed me- you saw what you wanted to see .
She showed me notes she had written about a particular situation – she really saw through him.
Catherine,
It’s scary, isn’t it? When your mind catches up and relives an event with the narcissist, but with fresh eyes/wisdom — and a difficult, new truth is born. It’s the ultimate waking up to reality, and (quite frankly) it always makes me feel sick to my stomach. It’s the betrayal that’s so horrific.
I’ve had about 6 things come back to my mind that the narcissist did to me when I was in the FR that I did not absorb accurately at the time; my gut was screaming to me that things didn’t seem right, as certain scenarios played out, but I just couldn’t absorb it then. It’s like brain fog. But I believe the subconscious picks up on ALL the smoke and mirrors – and patiently holds onto each element… until a time comes when we can understand more and look at it correctly – and grasp the cold, hard truth. Our brain *wants* to get it!
I feel your sense of betrayal about the glass. I don’t think your brain revisited this upon you for no reason. Trust your gut.
Glass. Pretty symbolic. Sharp, unforgiving glass…you’ve suffered many emotional cuts, Catherine, and I’m so sorry for that…but you are absolutely healing~and I think you are amazing. XO!
Sweet Caroline, you’re amazing; you’re always here with wise words and a big heart; thank you for taking your time and writing to me. What you say is true; I don’t think I was ready for the knowledge before; now it seems crystal clear to me that he was the one who did it. To think that I even was sat there opposite him showing the last large shard because I was so scared and confused and he started more or less to declare me insane; still my mind couldn’t wrap itself around the fact that sometimes evil does come from within our precariously built safety. And yes, glass. Pretty symbolic. Every day in the aftermath of having been involved with a narcissist seems to bring new realisations. To get the whole picture I guess we need access to those painful and carefully hidden away memories. Hugs to you!
I can so relate to that evil twist, Catherine… there, I said it — evil — which is a hard word for me to use, as I still battle what has made narcissists into narcissists, so that empathy is still hanging in there for them, to some degree (I’m conflicted, but at least I know I am, lol!).
I think the saddest part of your story is how you went to him, for that comfort/protection, and for that cruel twist of his, and I so feel that hurt with you… but maybe – just maybe – that’s what can help us really get what narcissism is… to really understand the mask, and how they just can’t have real love for us. They can’t! It’s so unbelievable, so sometimes it almost has to take the unthinkable, KWIM? It’s painful to let it sink in though.
My most hurtful memory with the narcissist is him trying to convince me something truly awful he did to me did not occur like I thought… turning it into him being so upset with himself that I ended up comforting HIM. My brain was trying to catch up – my gut was screaming at me that I’d been greatly wronged — but I was being led to believe I was mistaken and should attend to him instead. This memory only came back to me after being on this site for awhile. It took a lot for me to process it, but when I did, it scared me to death…the insidious cover up — to twist it like that, my God that’s horrid! Again, how could someone do these kinds of things to women who show them such love? Well, they’d have to only be concerned about #1. I replay that whole scene in my mind, and it gives me chills to see myself sitting on the floor comforting him, and see how he twisted it all to be blameless, with such evil intent…where did my hurt go? Stuffed inside – like it never happened. That’s narcissism at work. Gaslighting 101. Ugh.
Brutal truths do emerge…to get to healing. It really does take time. Wish we could wave a magic wand, but we’re getting through it, and that’s what we need to do…a bit at a time. Go us. 🙂 XO.
Because he’s Baby Ghost/Beloved from Toni Morrison’s Beloved. A needy enraged baby ghost in an adult body that seduces and torments the living. He’s not human and he hasn’t been alive for a very long time. He’s compelled to kill his mother/whatever made him what he is because he loved it once and Experiences love as rage. “She is the one I need. You can go but she is the one I have to have!”
Years ago, I remember reading a book with a title that was something like, “What Makes People Tick”. (I’ve forgotten the author’s name and a google search shows there are numerous books with that title.)
The book explained that people can generally be grouped into three categories depending on their main basic motivations or what drives them to do what they do. These motivations were classified as:
– Influence (or power)
– Affiliation (or social ‘harmony’ with others)
– Achievement (striving to reach a particular result)
Each person can have a mixture of these “motivations”, i.e. each person isn’t purely driven by only one motivation. However, there is one motivation which is the ‘main’ one.
I feel that narcissists are wired so that their motivation is “influence”, while empaths are wired to be motivated by “affiliation”. Both suffer from deluded thinking and need to dampen their “emotional” thinking in order to think more logically. There seems to be an underlying “fault” in each one in that the primary motivations are too strong, to the exclusion of the others and to the detriment of healthy relationships.
The “drivers” of behaviour, in addition to the fact that humans are a social animal and need to group together to survive, mean that these two “opposite” forces are constantly attracting and colliding in the case of narcissists and empaths.
If both narcs and empaths stand back and look at their motivations at arms length and consciously decide to change them, they can begin to ‘survive’ in a more progressive way.
For the empath, the best way of doing this is ‘no contact’, because the narcissist appears to be incapable of looking at their motivations at arms length in order to change them.
HG TUDOR ; 💋
Incredibly upsetting for me .
.
Reading this , just had me reliving all of my narcissists transgressions.
He has enacted every single one of them , { what you’ve described } from the start of this article , to { most importantly } the very last part .
This nearly had me in tears I read on , being so upset & distraught from being played. ~
& having my feelings/heart toyed with constantly . 💔💔💔
I know the drill very well .
However , I do not understand it at all .
I’ve tried to make logical sense out of it , tried to rationalize his actions , made excuses for him , because I was humiliated & embarrassed by his behaviour.
None of it makes any sense to me .
Im completely baffled. …….
That’s the point. They want to keep you confused “bewildered” as HG would say. Lol! If you are spinning and second guessing yourself you are feeding them. They love that s***.
Just reading this article an getting sick to your stomach..because you know you went through all of this, shows how accurate it is.
I think I wondered just about all of those maybes. HG, are you sure you don’t have a split personality and are half empath?
You know you are really helping me to understand the situation. I was so long blinded by my ex. I just didn’t get it. I was thinking what am I doing wrong? He destroyed me almost completely. I left the US to survive. He followed me, I let him to get back to me. He promised me everything exactly the way you described. But slowly I had enough I couldn’t believe him anymore. Right now I am moving forward I decided to have no contact. You are helping me to get back each time I am questioning my decision. So thank you you do a good job!!!! I just hope that I will be healed one day and that I will get back the ability to trust again.
Good, keep reading and understanding will lead to freedom.
HG, you forgot to complete the sentence. Your kind needs fuel to feel alive. And that is your Achilles tendon in comparison to a normal psychopath, which your kind wants to be.
Your comment is interesting Mona. It makes me curious about what you actually mean.
What makes you say that narcissists want to be “normal psychopaths”?
Also, what do you mean by “normal psychopath”?
Wiser now, a psychopath is only interested in his advantages concerning money, sex and power. He is not addicted to any emotional response. HG needs this emotional response. An exaggerated example: If a psychopath needs money, he is satisfied to get the money through bankrupt. He is satisfied to get away with it and nobody should know about it. The money is all that he wants. A narcissist would do the same, but he would have the need to brag about it, to see the fear of the people, to see his minions admiring him. It is not really the money that interests him, it is the emotional response.
A psychopath would say: “I am better than anyone else and nobody knows it.”
A narcissist would say: ” I am better than anyone else and everybody should know that.”
Mona, that’s interesting. I believe my ex to be a psychopath; although with narcissistic tendencies so that kind of difference when it comes to the need of emotional response interests me a lot. Exactly like you describe he didn’t have the typical narcissistic need to shine in front of the world; he preferred in all senses to be the ingenious puppet master behind the scenes who controlled covertly. Also, he had a lot of the psychopathic tendencies of extreme restlessness, boredom and the worst impulse control I’ve ever encountered in a human being. The worst of two worlds surely. Interesting.
Mona,
I lost the thread where you are making an important distinction between a “psychopathic” narcissist and a “narcissistic” psychopath.
Regardless of the names given, I believe what is important is to detect the elements present on the individual one is facing.
I see it as different circles on a diagram-taking just these two (“circles”) personality disorders NPD and ASPD since we are talking about theses two.
How much these two circles intersect with each other differ on which traits are present. When you have a “full” intersection when the two circles overlap with each other then you are facing an indivudual with a more complex structure and as a consequence more dangerous:
A person with NPD +ASPD( Antisocial personality disorder: psychopathy: characterised by calculation, callousness, lack of remorse among others). I believe that is what you define as a narcissistic psychopath or what is called a malignant narcissist.
Attention and acceptance for a “plain” psychopaths are not goals or ends, they’re means to ends.
If you add a third element( besides NPD and ASPD): Machiavellianism
( the end justifies the means) gives you an even more complex structure that is called the Dark Triad.
There is even another term: the Dark Tetrad where even more another element is present:sadism.
As you stated it is not the name that makes the person you are facing but the traits that are present on this person that results on an intersection or no intersection of these circles.
I just find it hard to believe that a psychopath is completely devoid of (some) narcissistic traits.
If you are facing an individual with all these four structures ( NPD+ASPD+ MACHIAVELLIANISM+SADISM) then you are facing an individual with a much more complex structure .
And I definitely do not see any Achilles tendon with this combination of the four structures, far from that : I find this combination far more …lethal.
We can’t deny the fact that these complex structures exist and are developing and adapting as much as we can’t deny the existence of empaths.
I am starting to believe that the only way for this war between these two “structures” ( that is present in many different spheres: micro:personal, intimate, family ,professional and macro: politics, big enterprises etc) to lead to evolution and not stagnation is a healthy and strong empath.
As a parenthesis and if HG allows it, I found an interesting article – not knowing exactly the reliability of the source- but interesting to see that now they are talking about personalities disorders as NPD and Psychopathy at this level: politics.
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/mind-guest-blog/of-psychopaths-and-presidential-candidates/
I find very interesting your comments pointing out the different elements/traits present on these personality disorders and how they are distinctive of one another and not mutually exclusive.
HG, best reality check ever written!
That summarize everything .. nothing is left to be said . That could serve to explain someone who does not understand what we have been through or going through . Well done HG!
Thank you.