Narc Magnet
You are a magnet. You attract our kind. You have done so at least once and you will continue to do so. Again and again. There is no hope for anything else. As an empath, super empath or co-dependent you radiate with the traits which draw us to you. Hitherto you had no awareness that this was the case. You would enter a room and be oblivious to the heads that turned your way as our kind detected your presence. You would have noticed that you were receiving the attention of people, but back then you had no knowledge of who was engaging with you or why that was the case. You have several sets of traits which appeal to us. These are the empathic traits, the class traits and the special traits. It is your empathic traits which stand out most of all.
These are evident in the way that you behave, the words you say, the gestures you use and the expressions that form on your face. The way your interact with people, the way you look about a room, the way you walk, the way you sit, the place you decide to sit and so many other things indicate to us your empathic nature. In the same way that everything we do is marked with the taint of our narcissism, everything that you do is stamped with the essence of your empathic traits.
When you walk into the hunting ground of our kind, you are identified promptly as exhibiting potential. It as if you give off a fuel signature, like some kind of scent which our kind smells and recognises as soon as you come near. You once did not see the Lesser as he leant against the bar and noticed you as soon as you entered the premises, his eyes fixed on you as he observed your entrance. The Mid-Ranger would look up from where was sat and find himself drawn to you, that unmistakable essence which you give off, being picked up and identified. Both Lesser and Mid-Range would not know why they wanted to engage with you save that they felt a compulsion to do so.
This need arises in the same way that a lion knows that it is hungry and therefore it must find some prey. The Lesser and the Mid-Ranger’s antennae twitch as you the empath walk through the bar. They are alerted to your presence and then they will watch and pick up on the other indicators which tell them what you are.
The Greater sees you and knows what you are. His lascivious grin indicative of the thoughts which are running through his mind as he begins to assess your suitability. You are signalling to him who you are, that you are empathic, that fuel is passing him by and an opportunity has presented itself.
Once upon a time you were oblivious. You walked through this den of narcissistic intent, unaware of the parasitic creatures that waited to climb down from their waiting perches so that they could engage with you, coil about you and draw you into their web with their silver-tongues and charm. You just thought they were being pleasant, polite and taking an interest. You had no idea how much danger you were in as you allowed your empathic traits to shine like a beacon. Each and every day you radiated these traits, issuing a sub-conscious “come and get me” to our kind. How good it felt to receive this attention. How pleasant it was to be courted in this manner.
As our kind picked up on your empathic scent and were drawn to you, they sought additional confirmations, assessing your class traits and hopefully special traits too, through a combination of instinct and design, dependent on which school of narcissist you had engaged with.
You do this as as easily as you inhale and exhale. Your traits are imprinted on you and they are indelible. They are part of your core and you cannot remove them. You cannot flick a switch and turn off these empathic traits. They are you. Imagine you will if some kind of glasses were created which allowed a physical representation of your empathic traits as hues of red light. If one donned those glasses and looked into this hunting ground as above, a bar perhaps, then one would see several things.
First there would be the normals who would have a slight red glow about them, indicating some empathic traits but limited in number and extent. There would be the dark and empty spaces which are where our kind lurk, the empathic traits completely devoid. Next one would see the dancing trails of scarlet and rose that signify the empath. The roaring flames of riotous red which blaze and indicate the presence of the super empath and then the supernova of bright red which is the signature of the co-dependent. As your gaze swept the room, one would see these differing hues and varying intensity, all indicative of the ever present empathic traits.
It is impossible for you to become incognito. You are unable to remove your empathic traits. You cannot switch them off and pass undetected. Accordingly, you will always stand out to our kind. You will always be identifiable, you will be seen and therefore if our kind is in the vicinity, whether physically proximate or through the accessibility of technology, we will be drawn to you. Like sharks which scent blood, like the hungry dog which smells meat, we pick you out and converge on you in anticipation of the fuel that will flow from you.
You will aways be a magnet for our kind. You have been created with empathic traits and you will always keep them. You will remain that beacon which we see and flock to. You will always attract us.
Of course you may learn to dampen down the manifestation of your empathic traits by altering some of your behaviours. Certain actions, words and gestures might be reduced, lessened and altered to reduce the extent of the empathic traits which you exhibit, but your traits always shine through and you cannot maintain this cloaking for long. It is contrary to who you are how you conduct yourself. Your empathic traits are so extensive that even when you have suffered the beasting at our hands and mouths, that when you have been drained, numbed and exhausted, the empathic traits will remain.
The empath will not shine with them as brightly and following the full horror of the devaluation and discard,t he empath will not function with such an obvious display of empathic traits because the brutality of the treatment will cause some diminution in function and display.
The super empath will continue to display these empathic traits because this person has the capacity to endure so much and then still have sufficient function to escape what has happened, once there is the eventual realisation as to what has happened. Once the super empath has had enough, they will seek their escape and their empathic traits continue to shine brightly.
The co-dependent, no matter how brow-beaten, how ground into the dirt he or she is, will continue to exhibit those empathic traits because the co-dependent would rather give you his or her last breath rather than take it for themselves. They continue to give, even when there seems there is nothing more that can be taken and thus their empathic traits remain on display.
This is why it is so often the case that you are almost passed from one of our kind to another. You are discarded but your empathic traits remain evident and thus another of our kind flocks to you, ready to gorge on the fuel which is generated by your empathic traits. Even if you escape, you continue to signal your suitability to us. You are unable to do anything other than stand out in this way.
It is only when you have gained the insight and understanding into knowing who it is that you keep attracting and why, that you finally learn what to watch out for. You cannot change what you are, indeed, why should you? What you can alter is your ability to identify us when we make that bee-line for you. As you radiate empathic traits, we also exhibit the narcissistic traits which once understood and once recognised in the behaviour of the everyday, mean you finally see and take notice of the red flags, flashing lights and blaring klaxons which herald this danger.
You will always be destined to be a magnet for us. That will never change. We will flock to you, be attracted to you and seek you out, our instincts seeking that scent of the empath which tells us that our needs will be met and fuel will be provided.
You will draw our interest and attention because the empathic traits flow from you. You will, once you gain the knowledge and understanding, know who it is who has joined you at the bar and flashed you that winning smile and then you can the seize the power.
199 thoughts on “Narc Magnet”
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Hi HG!
1. As an empath, I feel a magnetic pull towards narcissists – why is that?
2. Also, why do i feel a magnetic pull towards some narcissists but not others?
3. And will I feel this magnetic pull to sociopaths too or just only narcissists?
1. The symbiotic nature of the relationship and your inherent addiction to narcissists.
2. Differing matches in terms of the type of narcissist.
3. Likely both.
I can expand further on this for you with regard to your personal situation through consultation.
I wish that I had an invisibility cloak.
Haha BKK!
“Wise, Witty and with aural Wonders.”
Perhaps HG is not the only one having a way with words…*you* BKK are almost audible to me; we only need hear where the emphasis is in that statement, when spoken by you, and we might have a contender for the voice too…
Not a chance.
It’s okay, HG… Somewhere down the line, we’re probably related. Regardless, can consider myself the younger cousin?
I’m not sure where my I* went in that statement. I know it was there! Are you gaslighting me, HG?
Please allow me to rephrase: Regardless, can I consider myself the ‘younger’ cousin?
And if so, would it be considered incestuous if I still adore your voice?
❔❔❔
You are a sweetheart, WhoCares.
“Sam is full of knowledge, but his voice puts me to sleep. HG’s voice on the other hand….”
Yes, the voice BurntKrispyKeen, mostly certainly. But also the quality of writing and – let’s face it – the entertainment factor. Essentially HG’s presentation style is well thought out 😉 and keeps you coming back for more…I know that there are other valuable sources of information out but it is tedious to suffer through long, drawn out videos etc., to get to the good stuff.
HG has spoiled me for other sources of info on narcissism. And seriously, there is a lot of bad advice out there and sometimes you don’t need a lot of advice; you just need the *right* advice. Plus, some entertainment along the way certainly doesn’t hurt…
Hg approves.
Credit where credit’s due.
Well said, WhoCares. HG is the complete narc package. He’s a 3-Dub… Wise, Witty and with aural Wonders. 👂😉
Keeping in mind my awkward attempts on the other thread, notice how I put that little ear in there, HG? I didn’t want anyone to think that I was utilizing voice-to-text and was trying to say “oral.”
See, I’m trying to clean myself up. 😊
Sam who? He sounds boring .
Besides, HG is all the Narc that I need. His insights have really helped me take my situation in hand.
Brilliant, as always!
I clearly stated I don’t know if I attract narcs but I do attract disturbed people . not a single one of my other relationships had any abuse nor did they include the elements of idealization devaluation discard hoover etc etc since I was never idealized devalued discarded or hoovered after the relationship ended nor treated to any forms of abuse during the relationship I think its safe to say they weren’t narcs
I’m also having issues with people confusing their opinions with fact, “these opinions are based on unscientific research”
While I appreciate your input, those arent my opinions. Unfortunately or fortunately, I was in therapy a while and I have read mountains of material. Snakes in suits, The Mask of Sanity, the Sociopath next door, Dark Souls, Women who love Psychopaths I can continue but you get the point. I am not at a novice at this subject matter. Not only will you find it all over the Internet, but I have had not only had a therapist give me this info but a psychiatrist as well.
I was officially diagnosed Codependent by a professional not the Internet about 7 years ago. I am very aware that I am ripe pickens for Narcissists. Looking back I have been sorrounded by them most of my life.
While I am aware of my condition as HG is aware of his that doesn’t always translate into solving it. You can be cognitively aware and still have the dysfunction. It is not easy to overcome Codependemcy as it is an ingrained pattern of behavior. You have to mindfully change your behavior which is easier said than done
Does that mean every victim is s Codependent? No it does not and I have been more than clear on that and only a professional can diagnose NPD or Codependency, but if your suggesting im misinformed or don’t have knowledge of the subject matter you’d be incorrect.
Lori she was not saying that when u say you are codependent it’s just oponion she was saying when u say others are codependent it’s just oponion. I don’t bring this up but my undergraduate major was pdychology. I have an associates and am a few credits shy of a bachelor’s in psychology but that still makes me completely unqualified to diagnose or give oponion on others . You must have a bare min mum of a master’s but preferably a doctorate to diagnose others. And even then you must take a full and thorough HISTORY of the person and examine them in person , that’s why so many Dr’s are hesitant to diagnose trump with npd, because they don’t know him personsally.
the purpose of receiving a diagnoses is helpful only if it helps you understand yourself , same with reading books on the subject , if it helps you understand yourself great , but it does not qualify you , nor should it encourage you to identify codependency in other people, that is not the purpose of diagnosis , furthermore you made an infinite number of assumptions , such as codependent find normal men boring ,etc etc which did not apply to me whatsoever and we’re highly irritating to read, especially when you said codependent get high off the validation of a narc, also didn’t apply to me but yet you said my comments screamed of codependency , again you projected your personal experiences with narc onto others without having any qualification to do do
Lori,
Thanks for your input as well, i actually went and read more about b-cluster comorbidity and understand it better now – comorbidity is its own condition without a fixed label, and that goes against how we like to think. It’s not what HG wants to discuss on this blog, but i found it interesting. I think HG is correct in saying that narcissism is a dominant characteristic, it’s helpful to acknowledge that.
The exasperation Ugotit and i felt is – when we were talking about our experiences, and in my case, my diagnosis – you didn’t read (listen to) us, but talked instead about your experience / diagnosis. You described yourself as sane, in comparison to, what, delusional bpd? – which means you do not understand the broadness of bpd. But i got myself into trouble by banding the term about, so my fault too.
It’s just reading comprehension + making space for others. I have strong opinions as well and also need to chill out sometimes.
On the other hand, we’re all here because our issues made us vulnerable to the narc, this is a space for venting and it’s also the internet – yo! I often sound a lot more heavy and serious than i intend to be.
Btw – is this ‘in general’ some spring fever hormonal healing frenzy?
I have been clear I don’t know how many times that I nor anyone else here can diagnose anyone with Narcissism Codependency or anything else. I know exactly what qualifications are needed for psychiatry as I’ve been in therapy with one. In addition, people can only speak of their own experience that’s it. You can can get information here that may give you clues but anyone who accepts a diagnosis from the Internet would be foolish
As far as my being serious, well that couldn’t be further from the truth in my real life I’m the office clown and the practical joker. The one who is always smiling. This however having happened to me now 3 times is no laughing matter and suggests I need to deal with my codependency or this wouldn’t have happened to me again. It wouldn’t have. I am very real about accepting what my situation is. I know that normals with healthy boundaries don’t tangle up with these individuals. Once perhaps a fluke but 3 times? nope
I am formally educated but not in that field.
I am a Magnet for the Lesser Somatic of your kind, HG.
I have not continually refused to accept I’m codependent I am in therapy it has never been suggested by any therapist or doctor that I’m codependent and I’ve seen many because I suffer from OCD since chdhood adolescence I did ask my therapist if I’m codependant and she said absolutely not I do not jump from relationship to relationship and all my previous relationships were healthy I think the tendency to diagnose strangers on a forum is irresponsible and dangerous
Ugotit I agree with you . With a blog full of empath who wants to save others – diagnosis of some sorts is not surprising – but I find dangerous and irritating
Only a professional can diagnose you but it is a well documented fact that Narcs choose Codependents over anyone else. Does that me every single person victim is Codependent? no it does not but a very high percentage are. That’s because that’s what they choose. If they choose a normal it’s because they mis judged you.
I’m not diagnosing anyone. I’m just giving you facts. Narcs don’t generally choose normal women with healthy boundaries. They just don’t.
If you find yourself continually attracting Narcs it’s not a coincidence!
I don’t know him many times I need to repeat myself I do not continually attract narcs my sister is a narc and I married one narc
Lori,
The narcissist prefers empaths, but that does not mean the narcissist always prefers codependents. Beside the codependent, there is the standard empath, super empath, and the contagion empath.
And not all codependents will pair with a narcissist. Some will be in relationships with alcoholics/addicts, others will be with a physically disabled/mentally ill person.
What the narcissists needs most is fuel (attention). If he/she is getting enough of that from a “normal” (what is the definition of normal?) he/she will entertain that relationship, at least until a better supply of fuel is available to them.
Empath does not always mean codependent. Not all narcissists want codependents. Some prefer a strong, confident person, as long as they give fuel, especially if they gush with fuel. This can be ascertained by how they treat EVERYONE, not just the narcissist.
Go to the search bar under the website banner, and look for articles on the different schools of empaths and the cadres of empaths. You will see that not all are severely damaged as the codependent is/was.
You make excellent points I was going to.point out something along the same lines but got too fatigued a narc like you said certainly prefers empaths but it doesn’t have to be a codependent empath there’s many types of empaths to choose from depending on the type of narcs and like u said if he’s making a choice quickly due to lack of fuel he might just take whatever’s available even a non empath or a “normal” I also don’t care much for that word because what’s considered normal varies depending on who you ask
As an in my case I tend to think I’m not an empath on the scale of empathitic to narcissism I think.I’m in the middle not particularly a full empath but not a narc therefore a ” normal ” but in other areas of my life not a normal due to other psychiatric issues I have OCD , anxiety , repetive thoughts etc which ties into the ocd also great point you make that a codependent doesn’t necassarily pair with a narc it could be an alcoholic some even stay out of relationships and spend their life caring for a parent or their children without ever dating then have a crisis when their children move out
This article is excellent. Thank you. I am seizing my power~!
Completely off topic but I love your lavender hair
How appropriate…
This sounds EXACTLY like what I have experienced.
Is it strange that I have reached a place of acceptance? I have always been with narcs, they are drawn to me, and oddly I find myself attracted to them. Only one of my ex was normal. We lasted for seven years before, lo and behold, a mid-rrange narc came along…
I truly am a NarcMagnet…..
I am curious… How is life with a normal? I never been with one.
The opposite. Some similarities. No abuse. Mutual respect for a partner. PARTNER. Monogamy. Commitment. Honest communication. FAIR FIGHTS. Not perfect.
My experience in a long time relationship: there is a golden period. After the golden period, comes a settling in. (My partner died from lung cancer at age 45. I took care of him. Held him as he died in my arms.) Compromise.
After being in a normal relationship, then going to a narc/empath relationship, it was exhausting keeping up with lies, infidelities, verbal, emotional and physical abuse, humiliation, never a dull moment.
I will be alone be4 I allow myself to be slandered in my community, disgraced, abused again. I hated the drama.
Thank you both ! Give something to aim for. It feels good reading it and sorry for your husband who passed away.
Boring and stable lol
Hi OMJ,
I have dated and had boyfriends that I guess would be”normal”. In particular, I am thinking of Mike. We never argued, he was even-tempered, kind, sweet, considerate and I felt safe, loved and at peace when I was with him. Probably the biggest mistake of my life was to break up with him when my ex came back around and pulled on my heartstrings and desire to have my family intact. Anyway, I hope to find a nice Empathic man. I think there are men who were victims of Narcissistic women out there who will appreciate and love us and that is my hope for all of us.
If you are a narc magnet, you will likely enjoy a normal for quite some time but eventually you will find them boring and you will seek another narcissist unless you deal with the issues causing you to seek narcissists which is usually codepency. If you repeatedly end up with narcs it’s highly likely you have codependency issues
I do I do Lori 🙂 I have copied my mom and have been trained by my Narc father. I hated my mom’s behaviour and my sister who works in psychiatry always pointed out to me how codependent I am .
So magnet- co dependant on my journey to healing.
I did therapy to help and I am in twelve steps program as well.
And I challenge my ET everyday by coming here again and again and interacting more and more and HG coaching. I think I am on my way to a better life.
As for the normal dude – I know – even now not offering challenge fuel to my Narc is a challenge for me :))
Hi OMJ,
I was married to a “normal” for a very long time. Dragonfly said it well. After the honeymoon phase, you settle into a comfort of mutual respect. You feel like a team. You feel protected. You know that they have your best interests at heart.
Here’s a silly example: Whenever out to eat with my husband, if he had a particularly delicious meal, he’d definitely want to give me a bite. That’s just something we did with one another… “Here, you MUST try this!”
So when my narcissist had a thick, juicy pork chop on his plate, he pointed out to me this certain place by the bone that is exceptionally tender. “Here’s the best part,” he proclaimed as he cut that section up into several pieces. (Who does that unless you’re a child?) As he was sawing away, I watched him, smiling, thinking his eagerness was so cute in wanting me to share in the experience.
I never got a bite.
Juicy examples !!!! Thank you :))
Kate, you said it well… that feeling of peace. I had forgotten what it was like to not toss and turn all night, wondering what some inconsiderate man might be doing?
“I think there are men who were victims of narcissistic women out there who will appreciate and love us and that is my hope for all of us.” – Kate
Wouldn’t that be nice! Surely that would be a relationship between two VERY appreciative people. ❤
For me it was like a five year golden period.Then, we moved to be closer to his family. Not him, but the hold his family had over him, was what ruined our marriage.
It may have been salvageable, except along came my current mistake. Much like the song of the siren I fell for the call of the Narc, and that marriage ended up breaking on the rocks.
I guess that’s part of why I haven’t left. Self inflicted punishment for throwing away the best thing that ever happened to me.
He’s remarried with two kids. I know I could have him back, but I couldn’t bear to be a homewrecker. Besides, I had happiness once. That’s more than most people have.
Wow… What a story. I do really feel for you. Narcs are very good at coming in our life at times of weakness. If you had experienced 5 years of golden, make sense you thought you were going through another healthy relation.
Wow … not sure if that was your first Narc , but you really must have wondered what was happening to you.
Thank you for sharing your experience and I admire your respect of his life now – that is very commendable.
Your story is very touching NarcMagnet.
Thank you all for your kind words.
OMJ- I think you misunderstood a bit. I’m referring to two different men. My normal ex I do have a great amount of respect for. We talk from time to time (as we have a daughter together ) which the narchole I’m with hates. He demands to know if, when and why of every conversation . Typical , right?
No, this isn’t my first narc either . I have one ex that is a solid lesser somatic , another that is a victim narc, and my first ex is definitely an elite. My current narc is midrange cerebral .
I have come to accept my codependency. I have learned to embrace it, to make it a stregth. I love narcs and they love (to use) me. 😜
Omj
Were you formally diagnosed ? Did you see it in other parts of your life? Do get really interested in “projects” only to become bored? I will move from interest to interest
I am attracted to normal men, but I could never figure out why I would bore of them. That’s cause there’s no drama nothing to fix no bringing things back from the edge. No heart racing reconciliation. For me there was mothing more exciting than validation from a Narc and it’s totally different than validation from a normal
Normals dont offer enough chaos to keep it interesting for me. My husband is not a full on narcissist but is narcissistic in nature such as myself and we do not have a conventional relationship so it has worked long term. Full on narcs are wicked fun short term in an intimate relationship but definately not long term or for love devotees. I also enjoy them as friends but with little expectation and limited exposure because they can be tiring.
The individual blogs are not sequential.
Every little detail is bugging me today. I’m projecting my shit on this blog today. I’m no longer comfortably numb.
Hello Dragonfly,
I saw your post yesterday and I kept thinking on what you wrote:
1. I can see from your comments that you are going through a process ( I can relate with this). That fact that you feel that you are not longer “comfortably numb “is a very good sign: you are reacting and coming out of your comfort zone which I think is a healthy and developing sign.
I used this site as well ( somewhere a long my own process )as a “mental” punching bag and it is understandable.
2. What I reflected about was that you did not find some of the individual blogs as sequential…and I can relate somehow to that as well.
How would you consider a sequence that you will find more helpful? Or to put it in other words: how would you “regroup” the blogs to be more helpful? By “topic”? Hard to do since they are all related..
It would be interesting to hear how you think!
Hi Super. NarcAngel answered ur question for me. TX to both of u for the recognition. It’s a computer programming issue . . . or we were all weighing in at once. The site couldn’t keep up with us. Narc Magnet gets the most posts by far lol
That weekend, yes I am going through the process . . . I call this stage “WTF just happened to my life” . . . I need consistency right now. That particular day I was in a self imposed exile.
Has anyone else experienced this: My ex is no longer around to GASLIGHT so I catch myself gaslighting myself?!
Your welcome Dragonfly.
We were referring to two different things: you were referring to the sequence of the blogs posted and I was referring to the sequence of the bloggers’ comments . Good that you got the answer from NA.
Interesting question, you mean gaslighting yourself as sabotaging (un)consciously your own memory, perception, and sanity?
Dragonfly,
When reading my answer, I noticed I switched the pronouns in my answer( and I am not trying to gaslight you ;(
I meant :
“We were referring to two different things: I was referring to the sequence of the blogs posted and YOU were referring to the sequence of the bloggers’ comments . “….
Yes, the comments on the articles are now out of order to what they were, making it appear that the comment below is a response when it was actually to a previous or different comment and could cause confusion and musunderstanding. That is why I try to address who I am speaking to when commenting. It may help HG also, since I have noted there are posts where he has had to clarify if the question is for him or someone else, since it does not appear to him as it does to us when he is moderating. Just a thought.
“she is so sexily segmented…”
Bhahaha – Bibi!
I’m getting over a cold…so thanks for the half laughing-half coughing fit…well, the laughing part anyway.
Needed that.
(Mighty educational re:dragonflies too, lol)
Thanks I like the way you position this … I used to be flowing challenged fuel but now I am much better !
“red flags, flashing lights and blaring klaxons”
– no kidding
On my journey– you did say you do not feel that much empathy but think you are an empath– hmmmm! I am thinking you may be a narc. You admit you jump from relationship to relationship, enjoy the golden period then get bored—-always have another one on the side to jump to. Sorry, that sounds like a narc to me. Empaths- get crushed, we feel the pain of others in our bones, we can feel the energy in a room- painful energy….. you do not sound like an empath to me. Maybe a co-dependent- not sure about those– but you do sound like a narc– and some narcs attract each other– beauty and the rich man—-
Empress … I do struggle with the word empath for me for many reasons and I did at some point asked myself if I could be a narc – but apparently not.
I am a very faithful person until I hit my rock bottom – for 17 years I did not even looked at another man when I was with Narc number 1 – but I felt for the Hoover who came back 23 years later in my life . I was not searching for someone – not even looking – but when he presented itself , I took the opportunity of a new life . So it is more like an opportunistic behavior .
Than 4 years later – rock bottom again with the 23 years after Hoover guy, in a depression , I meet Narc number 3 and hop an opportunity for golden – the love of my life etc. Was not looking for a man but was really stuck in an unhealthy dynamic. I had 2 depressions in my life – they were both with the same Narc – 23 years appart.
So on the continuum of empathy , I agree with you .. I don’t feel the pain of others – it is not in my heart that I have empathy – it is in my brain heart.
I understand and feel for them – but not long .
Once I read in one of HG’s book that empaths could have become Narc but they were stopped at one point – I guess I was stopped later than others .
Also on machiaveli tests I score high. Probably why with my greater elite I see his machination and I kind of have a fascination for it . When I am remote like now and I interact intermittently – i can observe what is happening and I do find some pleasure in it – watching it.
Believe me I have suffered, I have been subjected, I have been controlled etc
I am a co-dependent – my mom is one – I copied her in a way despise me hating her for being a co-dependent .
I crushed – had depressions- confusions etc
I went to therapy 3 times for a couple years and learned a lot .
Am I a real empath ? It’s not really important – i attract Narcs – I chase them when i am single ( when i was young)
I don’t care about the label- I have been entangled so many times … empathy or not there is something for me here for sure.
OMJ– great points and thank you for the honesty and the education as well! Also, thank you for not going off on me- I would have understood if you had!
Look I know myself well and I did go on you in my empathetic way :))
And … I would add – I never hurt people intentionally but if they repeatedly hurt me – i will find a way to hurt back – most of time it has been by escaping – before I knew any of these concepts ..
I did a lot of conscious wounding (also be4 finding HG) . . . Because I wanted to escape and he would not leave me alone. I stabbed his Achilles heel again and again thinking any ‘normal’ person would have runaway. Not my ex, I learned here, HG books, it was Challenge Fuel mostly. Finally, filing a restraining order seems to have worked. Seems to . . .
Plus empress… I have HG on my side.. Well HG’S teaching so your provocative narcisstic like comment made me half smiled 🙂
“But we are side tracking – as a magnet impact I guess trouble was waiting for me but less and less it will in the future.”
If you have friends that have been around 50 or more years. I would say the latter is true. It should definetly start to decline.😊
Wait…Is that narc behavior?
My typo – friends are there for more than 40 years. I was with them last night and it felt so good. I felt I was my real self. No narcs in my childhood friends. At one point , I was observing our interactions and I sais to myself , my Narc would never belong here. I would not be able to have that genuine connection , that caring healthy bonding with people – I never invite him to these things even when we were regulars because I remember with Narc number one how odd it felt having him around people that were not manipulatively, controlling and playing games.
Last night I was depressed thinking about my fake relation when I compared it to my last bf lasting friends .
Empress1. In On my Journey’s defense, she may be a Super Empath like me. My understanding is I have a great deal of narc traits. But once an empath, always an empath. I can tolerate a ton of abuse. I would go from relationship to relationship as there was always a narc waiting in the wings for me. I did have several years where I stayed out of a relationship but had numerous male narc friends. I thought I might be a narc, but it just comes down to what type of empath you are as to how we behave, attract, live out our relationships.
HG honks I am a standard empath – sorry guys I wish I was super something :))
And … we are not in an empath contest here btw!
hmmm, I believe I am a super empath- may be wrong– however- I do not jump from one man to another, wait till I have another new ‘golden man’ to jump to. I leave the relationship, heal or try to (tough with a narc) then very very slowly dip my toe in again. I can be alone, I do not need a man to validate me……I believe HG says narcs always have new supply on the line– this sounds like what she is doing- also she gets ‘bored’ easily— just resaying things HG has pointed out about narcs.
On My Journey
Doesn’t matter which school one belongs to, we have all been affected in some way in our entanglements with HGs kind.
Yet if one understands which school of empath they belong to, one is a step closer to understanding themselves on a deeper level.
I am sure one day HG will come up with a matrix with one axe with Marc and the other axe with empath codependent and what it looks like… the greater with the super nova, the lesser with the magnet etc etc :)) meanwhile – I am ok being a magnet it flatters my ego !! I like the word that is it !!
On my journey
That made me laugh…..
the Greater with the Super Nova, I have no love for mids and lessors soooo taking them to a cliff and pushing them into the abyss they go…..
The two axes thou……my ex taught me anything can be used as a weapon…..
For a brief second I imagined what HG with two axes would look like only him being an Ultra as a force in his own (an ax) and by his side an Empath who is a force of her own (the other ax) ……..balance is what keeps the two together.
Twilight … Happy I made you laugh but I was serious . I was thinking of a grid – with all cadres and types of Narcs and all types of empath and how they interact.
I always have ideas – I am very creative.
I never thought I could be with a lesser , but it happened. You should have seen the mess dear !! They are frustrating because they don’t know who they are so they are stupid and that makes it even more frustrating especially when like me you are full of challenge fuel.
With a greater – when you challenge – it is a real fight – you meet someone who even if he does not say it – will acknowledge your strength and your intelligence a lesser is too stupid for that .
OMJ
I was serious to. I really have imagined that. Not so much in “ax” form, just in that moment I imagine it that way.
I see a balance of both positive and negative energy, taking form in either Empathic or Narcissistic.
There are 4 schools of Empath, 4 schools of Narcissists. Yes I count Ultra as a school. Just using NUMBERS.
Standard Empath – Lessor
Co-Dependent. – Midranger
Super Empath. – Greater
Contagion. – Ultra
Why do you think this is?
I have been with all three schools. I am well aware of what it is like.
Challenge fuel….I have had to clench me teeth at times to keep from doing this….Ask my boss, she is a midranger. She will not speak to me, passive aggressive and vindictive. Not that she would admit to this.
The Greater was the only one that enjoyed it….until he pushed me to far one day. Yet when he recovered he did pay me back in full with interest.
Ok let’s thing further … I was thinking for example :
Greater / magnet =
Greater / super empaths =
Greater / standards =
Lesser / super empaths
Lessert/ magnets
Etc etc etc what does it looks like in terms of dynamics etc
Just fantasizing on seeing interactions laid out.
Might be illusionary on my part to believe there would be stereotypes of interactions between the types ?
OMJ
Ha ha I have observed behaviors between empaths and narcissists sense I was a child.
I didn’t have a term for HGs kind only knew they looked, smelt, and behaved differently then empaths, empathic and normals.
Maybe not a narc. I am sure its some sort of personality disorder or just maybe her own insecurities and fear that stem from childhood.
I don’t believe a narc would stick around here long. 😊 Not in a controlled remote environment. There’s only one narc that will stick around and deal with all this progesterone and empathy. H.G.
The answer lies within, if we seek we shall find the true self. It’s not always pretty but, you have the opportunity to rebuild self respect and healthier boundaries.
I know everyone has good intention- at least Inthink so because I am an empath of some sorts – but none of us ( even if we were specialies Doctor) can diagnose personality disorders by reading a post or couple lines of an entangled person.
There is no gold medal for sanity here – Most of us have gone to the dark side of the Narc moon and have been bruised and hurt and also have learned and grown.
I find irritating those labels and naive diagnosis – who cares???
When I was a relationship hopper–Im still an empath. I didn’t want to feel the pain in my bones, I avoided evaluating what went wrong, I stuffed my emotions. I would have rather been a narc.
I would have rather been a narc many times in my life … I envy the knowledge HG has and I guess if it was possible for him to get to know us that much the opposite is also possible.
I do feel like an impostor to call myself an empath because of the way we perceive empaths – weak – submissive- naive etc
In my profession I do need empathy and i make a good use of it – but because I am surrounded by “ real” empaths – I feel I am quiet selfish and self centered.
So … leave me alone and I will be wonderful to you – I can be forever – my friends have been around for more than 50 years . But hurt me and drive me to craziness and confusion and anger and I will use that anger against you .
But we are side tracking – as a magnet impact I guess trouble was waiting for me but less and less it will in the future.
Amen
I struggle between my natural tendency to give narchole what he wants (fuel ) and just ignoring or irritating him.
Today he informed me that I would have to cancel an event I had been anticipating. This means disappointing a number of people . Still , I’ve bent over backwards to keep the peace … I can’t stand the fighting & this is the calmest things have been in awhile. Not golden by any means , but more of a truce. I’m nice if he’s not a total prick. He starts being an ass, and there’ll be a divorce . Curious thing is I’ve got him over a barrel ,and I didn’t even mean to. My mom paid off her house. Gave 1/2 interest to me, the other 1/2 is hers. Can’t be sold unless we both sign off on it. So, if we divorce he has nowhere to go. He’s been so intent on controlling me by keeping me literally by his side nearly 24/7 making me not only his IPPS, but his only source. He’s technologically challenged , so he had me set up his phone. I can keep an eye on his FB doings. He’s not dumb enough to cross me though. He may be a midranger, bubut he’s almost twice my age and his health (and vision) aren’t what they should be.
HG, is it common for narcs to end up dependent like that as they age & their health deteriorates?
Please see Time and the Narcissist – Parts One and Two
If i dig deeply into what attracts me to them, or them to me, it’s my family relationships, of course. They unlock my inner splitting of taboo affection and it’s either immediate family or foe, or dinner time. I have antlers and am a fast runner, but i dance the dance.
The image you chose here is intriguing as always. Another excellent article, HG. Just one question… where can I get a pair of those glasses?
(Nevermind, I have a feeling you are going to give me the superpower vision I need. 😎)
When I was a freshman in college and 18 years old, I was the only girl talking to a group of guys that I knew from my dorm (I went to a school that was about 80% guys – woo! hoo!).
Anyway, they all had so much fun telling me fake little stories and then laughing because I always believed them! It was harmless. My friend, G___ said, “Kate, you’re so gullible and naive, one day it’s going to get you in trouble”.
I responded, “I don’t care. I like being this way. Shame on people who take advantage of it!!” (probably with my hands on my hips).
Almost four years later, my ex-husband chased G___ away..
HG, Is Richard grannon an N ?
What do you think?
To me, he definitely comes across as having narcissistic traits. After watching a lot of YouTube videos of him and others who claim to be helping victims of narcissistic abuse, it becomes fairly easy to spot the ‘fakes’. One thing that stands out to me is that they seem to love the sound of their own voice. Also, they make long videos where they say little of real substance.
now..I dont think so…but i thought so in the past. Whats your opinion HG?
I have not watched enough to form a view. Plenty of people have commented to me privately they believe he is so there’s something to look further at evidently.
yes something is not right about him. Same for Tony Robins
Mmmm… Tony Robbins ?? Big ego for sure … but a narc ? What makes you say that , I am curious . A narc that would master LNP the way he does would be very dangerous :))
OMJ
You’re referring to Neuro Linguistic Programming?
Effective
Yes I am referring to neurolinguistic programming . I have done a course and have done a therapy also . Very efficient in creating new neuropath.
If a narc masters this – they would be highly dangerous manipulative persons !!!
He used it to become a millionaire. Did u not see the contained fury in the #metoo case? His reaction makes me think he is a narc. I think he gets offended very easily but he doesn’t show it. Ive already analized his reactions in many videos ive seen. Laybe a master Narc. I dont teally know but i think.
I am still not conviced he is one but even though I have watched many of his videos , I was not looking for Narcisism evidences.
He might be susceptible to criticism and have a big ego. He does have a difficult childhood story but he is really able to have empathy or it is show empathy. To be confirmed eventually as far as I am concerned.
yes what u say is true
Can we really tell from an online persona? I am curious what others think. I have had some where I have questioned if they were narcs or not. I try not to just assume or prejudge someone (which is why I fell for them in the 1st place).
There is one channel I follow where I have wondered if this woman is an elitist narc. She is very well dressed (expensive, nice clothes–hey I’d wear them!) and drives a fancy car and makes sure people know this and she is a Trump supporter who will delete anyone who rips Trump on her page.
(Being a Trump supporter with expensive clothes does not nec. = narc but deleting someone who disagrees with you is a bad sign.)
Yet, her videos can be insightful/comforting, she has always been nice to me in our few exchanges (but then again so has HG) and I don’t have any problems with her, so I have stuck around out of curiosity.
I personally think it is very hard to tell without knowing someone. I know HG has a much better narc radar than I, but then again, not only is my narc radar bad, but so is my gaydar, as I was oblivious for 7 yrs that my Mid Range experience was flaming homosexual, despite all the retrospective signs I now see. Ugh.
Curious what others think. This post prob would be better suited for the ‘Support Fraud’ article, but just thought I’d throw it out there.
I would see the deletion of comments re Trump as a warning sign. I am of course pleasant to you because I have no reason to be otherwise, but you do know beforehand what I am. I am upfront about that. there are others who do not know what they are and are also pleasant but this facade creates a potential danger.
I had never heard of Richard Gannon before so I decided to watch a few of his videos. “Wow”is all I can say.
It’s baffling to me that people would watch him, take him seriously and take his advice. He seems more interested in himself then he does the topic. He kept reading off of his notes and kept going to Google to find ways of explaining what he was talking about. In another video I think he thought he was on broadway doing a one man show . It was bizarre.
You hit the nail on the head Wisernow.
I always felt he was big time over the top.narc that’s why his channel confused the hell out of me him claiming to be the victim of a narc wtf how when and where could he be a victim also vaknin extolls praise on him not a good sign
Vaknin and Grannon had a major falling out last year. I don’t know if they have kissed and made up.
HG
Re: Vaknin and Grannon
No thought to reaching out to them to offer your analysis and advice on their situation? At the very least, send a copy of your book Danger: 50 Things You Should Not Do With A Narcissist?
Bwa hahahahaha
Ha ha, I plough my own furrow NA.
Ooh reminds me of an article I once read……….when narcissists collide or something or other..
I saw that Grannon and Vaknin thing. Sam was pissed b/c Ritchie edited a doc. with Sam in it but made him look badly or something. Huh? I’m not very clear with regards to what got Sam all riled up. But then again, it doesn’t take much.
Sam ‘praises’ him because Ritchie is always referencing Sam in his vids. I feel I have moved far beyond what they discuss, as I tire of hearing about ‘the covert narcissist’. Yawn.
As I understand it (this is based on information relayed to me by a reader who also sent me some screenshots so I have no first hand knowledge), Vaknin was annoyed with the way that Grannon edited a video. I watched the video and can see Vaknin’s stance. He is portrayed badly (for instance seemingly making a woman cry in a lecture theatre, whereas she is actually crying about her own experience at the hands of a narcissist) and Grannon appears in the video in more composed and staged ways which make him appear better.
Vaknin aired his grievance. Grannon then pulled out of a conference he was due to do with Vaknin in Vienna. Vaknin posted an open letter on his site to Grannon about this. Grannon’s supporters then attacked Vaknin and making allegations about him which caused a temporary cessation of certain social media platforms.
The contretemps tells you quite a lot really.
Pleased you tire of the covert narcissist, Bibi, I dislike the phrase.
I wasnt aware they had a falling out I cannot watch grannon videos haven’t attempted in over a year he is too over the top for me I can’t take it I do occasionally on rare occasions watch a vaknin video I find it relaxing for some bizarre reason
Thanks for that background info, HG. Interesting.
And just to follow up, the ‘covert narcissist’ gave me some understanding in the beginning, as in, I knew there was an elephant leg and tail but there was still a miss when it came to understanding the full operation.
As I mentioned, your various schools and cadres very much clarified things and showed me the whole elephant.
V&G, to the best of my knowledge, seem to only diagnose one as either somatic or cerebral, thus leaving out the victim and elitist, whom would likely be classified as merely ‘covert’.
It’s only identifying a part of something and then assuming that because two separate individuals share this same part, that they much be one in the same, but they are in fact different beasts.
Bibi,
I so agree with your statement:
“As I mentioned, your various schools and cadres very much clarified things and showed me the whole elephant.”
I couldn’t quite see that I was involved with a narcissist until encountering HG’s framework. In my case all other descriptions out there were lacking in some respect.
He certainly delivers on his claim of accuracy.
Sam is full of knowledge, but his voice puts me to sleep. HG’s voice on the other hand….
Vaknin has schizoid PD, that other guy seems histrionic. Lifestyle coaches in celebritised online culture are based on narcissistic neoliberal values and identity constructs.
Self-marketing, high speed information: buzzwords, clickbait, attention economies, etc. blablabla. All very superficial, non-critical and appeals to emotional consumerism. Scientism is a western religion that’s come out of neoliberalism.
Where did u obtain your Degree?
I am loyal to HG. I’ve heard and Google vakin after seeing several mention his name on here. Never heard of the other guy. However, there’s one life coach I watched his YouTube videos and after reading HG work I believe he’s definetly one.
I only have room in my heart and mind for one narc and that’s H.G.😉
Thank you Yolo.
Ive not watched richard much tbh i get bored. Maybe its the tone of voice idk. I do know ive met some so called narc experts and i highly suspect them to be midrangers so its possible. The forum blog really sums it up.
As far as sam vaknin im not going to lie i like his vids and do watch them. Sam vaknin comes off quirkey and i find him funny in his blatant truths about narcissism. One video i find funny is what should you do if you want to stay with your narcissist. He very seriously lists off how you basically give up your very being to please a narc 😂 no thank you lol
Id asked HG if he would ever do an interview with him but looking back i think its a bad idea having two narcs doing that. Sam and richard may be the very example of this.
HG is my favorite go to on narcissism but there are other channels i watch as well. Ross rosenbergs work i like as well.
I hate Sam. It’s a lot of ba blah blah technical lingo where he’s constantly talking but saying little.
He seems like a robot.
Rosenberg in videos with Meredith Miller is so condescend to her that I almost sometimes think he is one too.
The interview with DR George Simon and Meredith is a good one I find that explains the consciousness and the therapy for Narcs and how he believes that transformation is possible through behavioural therapy but that the therapy that are most likely to be applied today with Marx’s don’t work and why.
A reader sent me a video which you refer to and I agree about your observation in your first sentence. You know there were two videos released ? An edited version by Rosenberg and the full video from Ms. Miller. Tells quite a story.
I saw 2 videos – not sure if they were redone. I do respect Meredith and her work , I felt bad for her and wanted to write her a note but did not know how to properly and respectfully write it in English , so I refrain from it . Who am I to critic, I was just starting to understand what narcissism was.
He plays “ fathers knows it all “ and I did like some of his work until I saw those videos with Meredith, I have lost respect for him.
dr Simon -him- he is very respectful of her and did a great job explaining his book and his work. You could tell the difference between the 2.
Richard is boring. I watched Sam pre-HG. I do find him funny in that dry sort of way. When I 1st came across narcissism, I still wasn’t clear what the disorder was, and so I saw all of Sam’s vids–the titles, and there were SO MANY.
I made fun of them in my head:
‘What the narcissist has for breakfast’
‘When the narcissist has gas’
‘When the narcissist does his taxes’
‘When the narcissist runs out of toilet paper’
‘When the narcissist undergoes a colonoscopy’
Etc.
I could never be my silly self around Sam, like I can here. He is just too uptight and takes himself too seriously. It’s like he’s already in a morgue. Laugh once in a while, man.
Those titles are rather amusing, I may have to start a new series….
Personally I find Sam a very dry writing style, plus he seems to go to the extreme of sounding educated rather than educating. I watched his documentary a while back, his whole persona made my skin crawl. In the beginning of this journey I did read his articles, they were informative to a point, but so far HG is really the only narcissist that can keep my attention long term:)
Hi lori…youre entitled to your opinion. I know many find sam dry and boring but i find his academic approach interesting and a lot of truth. That doesnt take away at all from my interest in HG’s work bc his is completely different and more engaging not to mention creative.
Lol bibi…i do know what youre saying about sam he is very serious. He reminds of of someone with aspergers. I find him comical at times his quirkiness but youre right i dont think hes got a sense of humor like we share here. I have seen him crack a grin tho 🤣
Or you could be like the female dragonfly who will play dead in order to keep male advances away from her.
If you don’t like the guy, play dead.
I have concocted an entire dialogue involving 2 male dragonfly blokes lamenting at all the ‘dead hotties down by the pond.’
Okay, Bibi – THAT was hilarious. And I truly appreciate the laugh!! Thank you!
Again ~ I love your humour!!
So go on then, I want to read the dialogue!! Hahaaahaa!
Glad I could leave a laugh. Insects are fascinating. They share the same primal instincts as we, without any of the time wasting. They just have to be mindful of birds and webs.
The pond is their bar or pub.
‘Dayam, that wingspan on her is lookin’ mighty fine…I can’t wait to copulate…that tight thorax…she is so sexily segmented…’
Ha ha, very good.
Bibi
I enjoy your active imagination and the resulting visuals.
Excellent Bibi!
Inspired, i did some research on dragonflies mating & found the “heart” formation. Fascinating indeed.
I have a good friend who’s an entomologist – have you heard about zombie ants?
Bibi & NE,
So, I’m out at Crystal Springs, and I’m really at a Dragonfly orgy???
That figures! Even insects gettin’ mo’ play than me!!
NE–
I have not heard about zombie ants. But another good one are mayflies, who only live a few hours. There is one species with a lifespan of 5 mins, in fact.
Imagine if that were your lifespan. Dad mayfly tells child: ‘When I was your age…30 seconds ago…’
Dying mayfly gives final words:
‘When I look back on my childhood…4 minutes ago…and that I have only 1 minute to live…I want to spend that minute with my family…who will also die several minutes from now…and I just only got back from my mother’s funeral…45 seconds ago…how time flies…haha…get it? Flies? Just some mayfly humor for your last minutes…’
Sincerely,
Sad Mayfly. A short life, but no less relevant. 😛
Bibi, I find that ‘resting bitch face’ works well and has scared away several narcs. Problem is, it scares away all men.
Cindy,
I have tried effecting RBF, and it seems I fail.
When I tried the software analysis, with what I thought was contempt in mind in my photo, it registered NO contempt, minimal disgust, and too much happiness (WTF?).
How do I learn this??!!!
Perse
Hi Persephone,
In my case, it’s genetic. My mom had it, as do my daughters. People are always asking me “are you ok?” “what’s wrong?”. My expression changes to the empathetic sponge I truly am once people engage me with a smile or conversation. It’s important to mention that depression also runs in my family, lol.
You have to be in a certain state of mind to achieve RBF. Try to imagine catching a slight smell of something disgusting like a dirty diaper, or an overloaded catbox. Now try to hide your reaction to those around you.
Good luck Persephone, but remember what our mothers told us, “if you keep making that face, it’s gonna stay that way.”
TX Bibi. I didn’t know this about female dragonflies. I luv this–I want some peace and serenity in my life. I know in order to do this, for me, I must give up all my emotional relationships I have with men. I look at all males differently now. My male friends are at some level narcissistic. So I’m getting them out of my life.
The world is moving backward to living through another Macivallian (sp) period. I want to be a Goddess Dragonfly lol
Sex is overrated.
I am craving my ex today. I almost texted him to get the last word in . . . like that would go any good? Id have to start all over. Like I need to be devalued. Or do I want to be revalued?
Then I thought, I wonder if he blocked me . . . maybe I should call to see if I’m blocked. Crazy thinking today, huh? I must get busy to move forward. The weekends are always the hardest.
Sometimes I think I pick up his thoughts . . . like I know he’s thinking about me. Have I been driven insane by the abuse I went through . . .
Your name is perfect Dragonfly. You must employ this technique!
There is so much to be learned from the animal kingdom, specifically insects. They don’t waste any time.
Sex to them? Think of arachnids–the female spider bites off the male’s head after mating. Do you think they feel any remorse afterwards or spend time thinking about him? Nope, time to spin another web and catch a moth.
As far as thinking about your ex, all I can recommend is to engage in activities that will fill your mind and your time. Is there a book you’ve always wanted to read? Or a friend you’ve not visited for a while? There’s no better remedy for pushing through pain than keeping busy. And stay off FB!
You’re stronger than you think.
Bibi,
I really liked your stories about dragonflies/insects. You really made me laugh with that one.
If you have not thought about it, you could perhaps start writing these short stories about insects on a more regular basis (and share them with us as well) .They are very humorous , naturistic and certainly give a refined humorous and lighter touch to this site that otherwise can feel sometimes heavy and dark.
Next time I see a dragonfly I will certainly wonder ( with a big smile on my face) if the male dragonfly finds attractive and appealing the number of segments on the body of the female!
By the way: did you know that dragonflies are predators? I did not know ,just happened to read it now doing some research as well as that their bright colours and agile flight have inspired some poets as
i.ex Lord Tennyson.
Thank you for sharing these stories with us.Keep on!
LOL thank you Super Xena.
I actually do incorporate much of nature and insects in my own creative work–monarchs, moths, dragonflies and ants offer good metaphors.
Also, poisonous mushrooms, carnivorous plants, as though there are parts of this world ready to poison you.
I’ve always thought insects are just like us without all the fussing. Or should I say we are more like them because they were here 1st.
Oh Bibi, you little entomophile… pollinating us with good humor. That’s much better than being a narc-phile… I’ve wasted too much of my heart there!
Down by my pond, I will never look at dragonflies the same. (They are fascinating little creatures, peaceful to watch.)
Your observations were cute. (Caroline would think so, too) Thank you, Bibi, for a much needed light-hearted laugh.
I like that: “pollinating us with good humor.”
I saw a story on FB yesterday about a woman who rescued a queen bee that lacked wings. She named her ‘Bee’. Knowing that Bee could never survive in the wild without wings, she built a little sanctuary for her.
https://www.thedodo.com/in-the-wild/woman-befriends-wingless-bumblebee
But don’t be fooled. Everyone must know that cockroaches bring out my inner psychopath. I lose all empathy if one gets near me and all I can think is, ‘I WILL END YOU!’
I get one of my Lieutenants to do the work, however. I refuse to go near them. They are assholes.
Bibi, I just read the heartwarming story you shared on Bee… amazing really. 🐝
And it’s true… there’s so much that we don’t know, insects included. But clearly there was a bound between those two, or at least that’s how I want to see it. Considering the cool bee-pad that was created, Bee SHOULD have been bonding with Fiona! (Not your average landlord.)
My ex husband used to call me Queen Bee… just one of many nicknames he gave me. (Some not so flattering. 😯) Reading this made me miss him a bit. (He’s non-narcissistic, so it’s okay.)
I understand how you feel about cockroaches…. those death-resistant, disease-carrying little bugs. But getting somebody else to squash one for you… Pretty Smart. I think that means you get to advance to the next level of craftiness here at narc-school.
And who says HG’s teachings only apply to one type of cockroach?!
It is a sweet story. But I don’t think I would let a bee crawl on my nose, however. LOL
I’d have named her Bea.
A few yrs ago I got stung by a drone in the back of my leg and then two hrs later it was still stinging! “Make it stop!” I cried. I had a red welt there for a week or more.
I don’t know why it stung me, as I was not bothering it. What a jerk. Bees are crucial for our ecosystem, but they can be jerks.
I am not above having to kill something that could harm me or my pets, however. Had some hornets build their nest right out my front door a few yrs ago, where each time I went in and out they would be swarming about.
Had to order for their demise, unfortunately. I wanted to tell them, “Guys, don’t build a nest right outside a human’s door because you are going to die. Very sorry.”
In that situation, it comes down to self-preservation. I can’t risk them stinging me or flying into the house and stinging one of my cats. They gotta go.
HG has been very kind to allow us all this insect talk.
You are welcome, it is interesting to read the information and exchange of observations.
Aw, HG, you make my <3 go thump thump. You can be so sweet.
—
Don't anyone lecture me! I am just being nice! 😛 😀
HG and Everyone:
The last of the insects/arachnids for tonight. This vid with a spider is SO funny. Please watch with your volume up. You too, HG!
The accent is perfect. 'Scratch, scratch, scratch…'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gRMcYlxWSE
So cute!! Is it not????
Bibi, that video was adorable. I can honestly say that I’ve never seen a spider cover himself up like that.
And the narrator… well, I have a thing for accents. So yesh, that was pretty darn cute. However, I would enjoy hearing HG do a voice-over on that one. “Scratch, scratch, scratch”… drawn out in his precise “Hush” tone.
That in itself could cure a lot of itches. 😊
Yes, we can learn to identify them. I met someone and he told me all his bad life experience and I felt compassion for him … until he told me that a friend of him had a life crises. She needed help and understanding and he complained only that she did not call him back as fast as he wanted after a call from him. Bye, bye. He does not understand, why I have no interest in him anymore and attacks me sometimes verbally. At least he tries to do so. His narcissistic traits shine bright all over the place. His verbal attacks have no impact on me. I am not disappointed, because I expected it. These attacks do not hurt me at all. I have to have low contact with him, because he is a workmate. I did not tell him the reason, why I withdraw. It makes no sense to do so. I do not ride a dead horse anymore.
What does that power look like? Does he/she smile, get up and walk away?
I don’t know if I attract narcs but for whatever this says about me I attract people with severe mental illnesses like schizophrenia and I don’t mean that to be disrectful but almost a day doesn’t go by without someone coming up to me in real life or online who looks normal but then quickly tells me they are schizophrenic or bipolar or they don’t tell me but I figure it out really quick and within anotjer minute I found out they’re off their meds and they go OFF on a tangent telling me their life story and I feel bad not wanting to walk away or block.them it’s very draining I just spent 20 minutes having a 21 year old schizophrenic mick Jagger look alike tell me his whole life story
Hi. As an empath, I have had strangers (‘normal’) tell me things they should have taken to their grave . . . cry their eyes out, get emotional in public places, hug me . . . We r good listeners . . . My point is several years ago, I decided I don’t want to be that person strangers confide in. I set boundaries.
Ugotit,
I believe god sends us the lessons we need to learn until we truly get it. Recognizing what you’re dealing with is a big step. Good job!
Ugotit, get the lesson while you are young. Narcs attract other narcs.
I reread your question and now I see when you asked about me feeling bad you were referring to the people telling me there life story not my narc yes I often have people walk up to me outside and sit next to me when Im at a bustop or the park having my luCH break and tell me stories about how they’re being g evicted feel suicidal etc etc I do feel bad when at some point I need to get up and walk away not knowing if that person is going to kill themselves or something I have walked away and called 911 on several occasions Aldo online I’m in several support groups on Facebook I have had people message me o Messenger telling me there homeless schizophrenic etc etc I talk to them and give them suggestions on how to get free mental health I Google shelters in their area etc etc but at times it becomes too much for me and I want to block them but feel nervous to do it wondering how they will react
Respectfully, aren’t you the woman who got engaged 2 months after going NC with your last narc? Are you engaged to marry?
You feel bad about walking away or block them? Does that mean you give strange men your cell #?
Are u a narc?
Dragonfly let me try to answer your questions first I believe you asked me if I felt bad about walking away from and blocking my narc .interesting question he discarded me and gave me the silent treatment on multiple occasions lasting months at a time I took him back each time twice after being discarded while we were back together I was treated to intense verbal abuse cruelty and poverty of affection after explaining to him mtie times how I felt with his reply being I don’t care I’m not even going to attempt to change in any way whatsoever yes I left him which is the most difficult thing I ever did he has hoovered twice and yes I felt bad each time ignoring him
Second question yes I was engaged no I don’t give my number to strangers the man was a friend for many many years he confessed he had feeling for me all along well he also told me previously I did during other times my narc had left me I never dated during those times this time I agreed to date him. However a few days ago I told him we were moving too fast and we needed to slow down and not be engaged just date and he agreed .if any of this so.show makes me a narc so be it I have questioned whether I’m a narc many times but was told I need to have zero empathy to qualify and that simy isn’t the case in many situations my empathy overfloweth if I missed any of your questions I apologize
There was so many typos in that what I meant is I asked my narc can he not date other woman behind my back or make dating profiles can he not insult and demean me can he show me a tiny bit of attention and he said in no certain terms he will not attempt to change the second man indicated to me now and also other times when I was single he wanted to date me but I wasn’t ready this time I agreed he’s a lovely caring person but I told he He was moving to fast he agreed am I a narc possibly possibly not I do not lack empathy this I know for a fact I also have gone nine years without dating prior to meeting my narc not sure if a narc could stay single that long
Ugotit you are not a Narc this screams Codependent! I know this is a common thread with me but that’s because I see it over and over here. NARCS CHOOSE CODEPENDENTS! HG Has said this and therapists will tell you this. In a few cases they don’t, but that is merely because they assessed you incorrectly.
The DO NOT pick people who do not have some level of codependency unless they have made an error that’s just a reality.
For some reason, people cannot tolerate or face the word codependency. They think it is somehow associated with weakness. It Is NOT. Is associated with CONTROL and seeking validation that you can never provide for yourself.
If you have had mulitplle Narcs, you have codependency issues. It’s not just a coincidence you are seeking them and they are seeking you. That is just reality.
I see people continually refuse to accept that they are in fact codependent which will only serve to keep them stuck. Even when you accept that you are, it’s a tough pattern to break
I have not had multiple narcs my narc that brought me here is the only man I’ve ever been with that has any signs or symptoms of narcissism the only man that has ever been verbally abusive I still have never been physically abused not that I plan to all the other relationships I’ve been in were with men that were very kind compassionate possibly empaths
Ugotit
I have no idea if you are a codependent only a professional or you yourself can tell you that but some of the stuff you have said has indicators that doesn’t necessarily mean you are. I’m simply saying a high number here likely will be because that’s the narcissists victim of choice so the chances of this blog be filled with a bunch of normals who just got mistakenly picked is slim. No one is forcing you to wear any label.
Perhaps I’m confused that you were commenting on the Narc magnet thread and you are saying you aren’t a narc magnet?
Ugotit, I apologize for misunderstanding. I misjudged you. We are all doing the best we can to try to recover from abuse. It sounds like I was before I had to figure out boundaries to keep myself healthy. It is possible and everyone benefits. There are so many needy people. It gets overwhelming, especially we are dealing with our own problems. You sound like a good person. Keep being you.
I guess in retrospect , everytime I left my narcs , I was in a golden with another Narc… it is so simple now that I see it … jumping from chaos to golden … there must have been something still glowing in me I guess. HG this article just made me réalisé something I never saw . I am a golden addict !!! Lol :)) I hunted narcs for the golden fuel !!!!!’ The savoir fuel !!!! The i am the chosen woman fuel !!! I am the business partner fuel !!! I am the best !!! … the best fuel … such a narcissistic statement from me !!!
I look at the life of Elizabeth Taylor . . . married 8 times, probably a super empath, she, too, went from one to the next to the next–really extreme differences outwardly in personality, but all narcs. She ran the gamet as after she went through alcoholism treatment, she married a lesser she met at the treatment center.
I luv narcs . . . but I always left after the golden period. I lost interest. I do the picking also. And I picked a grand master this LAST time. -I rode that dump truck all the way to the dump. I can’t play the game anymore. The emotional toll of a lifetime of narcs–yes my parents and my siblings–I was the lone empath, I’m a mess. I’m defeated.
“You are going to have to face it you are addicted to (romantic) love!” Robert Palmer
GOSO … with Narc number 2-3-4 the golden was a real one. I was the queen of the world. I was their everything , the woman they had been waiting for etc . The golden was like nothing I had known.
A lesser who hoovered back successfully after 23 years – an upper mid married who was a genius and successful and a mid intellectual .
Number 1 and 5 … I needed to be saved. I was at difficult time in my life . An upper mid and now a greater elite.
5 really started as a companionship , I had no intention of love or entanglement and I never really let myself go as I knew something was wrong with him . But here I am – hooked but smarter because of this site , HG help and the therapy I did last year.
1 He was a protector , I was young , he was 17 years older and was nothing like I ever met. Was filling my need of security. When I left him for the lesser who hoovered after 23 years – I went to hell rapidely as golden was already going on for 3 months and that was more that what that lesser could possibly give.
So a magnet for sure , but so many different costumes those narcs that I got conned every time.
Golden were great but I should have left right after for 2-3-4.
I will look at Elizabeth’s story for sure .
I was so traumatized after number 4 that instinctively I did not wanted a golden again, not knowing it – hence why probably that I played it very low key on the love thing with number 5. Just companions … :))
Goso, are you sure you’re not on the borderline side? If you’re empathic but a hot mess, and crack Liz references 😉 BPD is a neurological condition that can be mild to severe, depending on genetic and social factors – but it’s notorious for being a result of narcissistic parenting (as is NPD). Growing up with extreme stress releases hormones in your brain that can make you very anxious and erode your capacity to manage your emotions. Sometimes we think that we have innate qualities but it’s very hard to separate from internalised trauma. Look after yourself.
Romance addict, is also a sign. Though i prefer ‘Slave to Love’ –
I think she was the Narc
And each time you receive the validation you seek. Only the validation is never enough and it never lasts but you need it like a drug and it’s is most potent from one not likely to give it like a Narc That is the Codependent pattern
I mean is there any greater high than a Codependent being validated by a narc during the golden period or a hoover?
No there is not for either party which again is why they choose us and we choose them
Except for my greater Elite now , I feel I have always chosen them and not the other way around but that was probably what they let me believe. Because I have always been a hunter, chasing man and wanting the ones I wanted. Most probably the narcs like my father.
I still have not totally digested I am an empath, because I don’t feel that much empathy in reality. but I do feel how people feel etc except that I get rapidely bored and tired to interact with people.
Funny enough… I have left 3 out of 4 narcs in my life and every time I had another narc ready and waiting for me but I swear they were very very different. They exerted control in a very very different manner.
This last one now- my 5th – I escaped and came back. He says that I escaped all man but will not escape him. That shall remained to be seen.
Also, what strikes me the most is that when i started coming here, I had no clue what I would discover about my exes. I find that really fascinating to see now that this is all I know. Chaos.
How one lives with a normal man? I don’t know. So I was never loved?
I still do believe that narc 1 – did loved me and that he could love. Maybe he is just very low on the continuum. I am still struggling this one.
I am not a shrink but this screams of codependency. People for some reason associate codependency with weak little women who can’t leave their narc. No no no though in certain cases it may appear that way it is quite the opposite.
Codependents seek validation from the outside. Much like Narcs they need to CONTROL. They exercise their need for control and validation through fixing and healing and no one needs more fixing and healing than a Narc. Codependents often leave one relationship for another and its often Narc to Narc. Codependents are like Narcs only with feelings and compassion. Neither can really handle being alone and both need a source of either supply or validation from outside. This is why Narcs and Codependents pick each other.
It’s my opinion after reading and therapy that if you repeatedly find yourself with Narcs you are picking them as much as they are picking you and that there is almost always codependency issues present
I agree GOSO with a lot of what you said. Narc 5 ans I talked a lot about our emptiness, the escapes coping strategies etc he concluded saying that him and I were the same except he was bad and I was good.
Lori
That is a very interesting take on codependency. Youre right that its association with weakness, being totally subsumed by another, and sustaining massive amounts of one sided abuse that leavies a bad taste, but perhaps thats just it in its highest degree. Perhaps it can also be applied to one who feels they need a certain element of another to feel satisfied, which would appear to be applicable to all of us (both narc and empath) in varying degrees, and thus the dance.
I like your description of codependency. Spot on. At different times in my life I have been one kind of empath or another. Stages.
Narc Angel
I think what you are referring to is the fact that codependents are quite manipulative but the way they do it is different. Narcs are aggressive with their manipulations. They like to seem powerful.
The Codependent seeks power and control through passive means and coming off as a martyr. Codependent become preoccupied with other people’s behaviors and seek to control them. They also seek validation they giving. It’s the see how much I do for you? Now appreciate me angle.
Codependents are NOT WEAK quite the opposite they can endure to achieve their goal. It’s the standard empaths that are of weaker nature. A woman with a moderate to severe case of codependency can be quite tough and they often get what they want but the satisfaction is short lived and they are on to the next. You often see this women going from “project to project” “interest to interest ” They bore easily but they don’t bore of Narcs because they never fix I.e they never control them. They are really quite similar to Narcs. They both have no ability to generate self worth from within. It must come from an external source. Their core wounds are the same they have each just adopted opposite methods of coping. Imo Narcs are just more damaged Codependents.
From everything I’ve read and HG writings the Super Nova is the Codependent that loves the game. They become aware of who they are dealing with any begin to enjoy playing the game. Codependents will always find normals boring and eventually lose interest. They will never like the guy that is initially crazy about them. Nope they want the aloof one that they have to work for which equates to control and validation. They play martyr because that’s their tool of choice in seeking control not to be confused with weakness. They are not weak
I was diagnosed Codependent and I admit I have enjoyed the game at times.
I wish I could just wrote that whole thing.. co-dependant enjoy the game and never enjoy the normal guys… 🙂 that is so true
To add to the issue of Codepebdents being perceived as weak, that is a complete misnomer. All therapists will tell you Codependents seek to control. Wanting to control others goes with seeking power. It’s the tactics and methods that the Codependent uses to control that give the perception of weakness. They use what appears to be weakness as a powerful tool but once they obtain the control they are bored and looking for something or someone else to conquer.
Narcs appeal to Codependents be because they can’t conquer them and so they are an endless challenge for them and keep them interest their desire to conquer and control becomes addictive and so the dance continues …. i
Lori
You are very intelligent and right about codependency.
Narcs don’t feel happiness but they use Words that they are super happy. Can it be said the same for empaths? They have all emotions but as they are not happy all the time in their pursuit to change the world.
HG –
Do you think that both narcs and codependents, are not happy from inside but they show the fake smiles just to stop the world from prying into their personal lives?
I do not see that the fake smile from us is to prevent people from prying, after all, if we showed irritation or “upset” then this would be done to provoke a response about “what’s wrong” or “what has upset you?”
Codependents have fake smiles all the time. They along with narc have a sense of emptiness but are they miserable all the time? Not at all. At least I’m not. I think a codependent without a project or situation to control feel somewhat depressed or flat.
Codependents often won’t admit but they seek drama as much as the narc. So now you have 2 people in the relationship saying they don’t like drama yet there a whole lot of damn drama! They both feed on it. Codependents create drama because they want validation and the narc will drop crumbs of validation here and there but it won’t be the type of validation you want. If it’s validation of a romantic sort you want they will say something like” good job” on something you have accomplished. It’s enough to keep you in the game but it’s not what you wanted. It’s kind of like a shitty gift. They will never give you exactly what you want unless its seduction. The narc seeks supply which a codependent will readily give.They readily give sometimes from the goodness of their hearts, but most often there is another motive and that’s because they seek to control someone’s behavior with the giving. I give you supply you behave the way I want you to and validate me.
Validation from a narc is a 100x more potent to a codependent than it is from anyone else. Codependents get high off of exerting any amount of control no matter how little over someone that’s near impossible to control. The more difficult the person, the greater the high they get. Just watch a codependent when a narc hoovers and allows them some comtrol in order to get them back. The Codependent is like a crackhead getting high
That’s the narc and the codependent each other’s drug dealers
Mini Duck,
Thanks for the compliment. It’s not so much intelligence it’s that I have been diagnosed codepebdent so I quite familar with the topic
Much like HG I am aware of how I function. Have I cured it ? No I haven’t as I ended up with another Narc. It’s a very hard patten to break. I can do better but it seems I never completely overcome it. It’s just part of who I am. We see HG with so much awareness and think why doesn’t he change!!? Simple, because he can’t. When you have lived your entire life that way, you see no need to. It is what’s comfortable and normal to you. I totally get it. I am the same completely aware of my codependency, but do little to change it because it’s all I have ever known. It might be dysfunctional but it’s comfortable and familar which equals security to me.
Thanks Lori and HG
I got the answer i was looking for.
I think since I have come in contact with my narc, i have started behaving like a codependent. I am looking for crumbs and validations from him. I dont want these things from others.. As a shelf IPSS, i seldom gets crumbs of validation from him, but it makes my day. I am keeping myself busy to forget him. But it is very hard and time will heel all the wounds.
Mini Duck
Only you and a professional will know if you are Codependent or not. Codependency will show in other facets of your life. If you are only seeing these traits in your interactions with the narc and this is the only narc you have had then you may not be codepebdent
Codependency is a pattern of behavior it’s not just limited to interactions with Narcs.
If you read up on it you’ll know if that’s you and so will a professional
Thanks Lori
You are strong and wise. As you are aware of Your personality, you will manage well to avoid heart breaks.
I have been married to a narc before but then i was not behaving as a codependent og emotionally dependent. Just waited because of Financial reasons and tolerated him till i got my permanent job and house loan. Secondly he managed to hoover me everytime I filed for separation because of kids. I tried to change him but failed.
In the present narc case it is very strong infatuation or love from my side. As you say, I might not be codependent, but I longed for him from distance that he might come to me. But it will never happen and I am prepared for it now. I don’t match he standards of a partner.
Mini Duck
Thank you. I am quite strong in some areas of my life. A lot of Codependents are as we seek to control.
Unfortunately, what strength I have has not allowed me to evade heartbreak and I am clearly not a recovered Codependent as Narc 2 cam along. I have had the same Narc twice and then another Narc so I have had 3 bouts with this. This would suggest I am not recovered
Mini Duck
I’ll say this be careful diagnosing yourself off the Internet. When I initially went to therapy I was convinced I had Borderline Personality Disorder. The therapist said I absolutely did not and was exhibiting classic signs of narcissistic abuse, enmeshment and codependency but at the time I thought I surely had Bpd
Read up on Codependency you’ll know if it sounds like you as it shows up in other facets of your life. If it walks like a duck quacks like a duck it probably is a duck but let a professional determine that don’t hang yourself with a label unless a professional diagnoses you
I loved therapy. It was like a massage for your brain and your heart. I would have gone forever but I was told I didn’t need them anymore:)
/iroll. Hi and thanks for your input. Several years ago I was evaluated by several psycologists/shrinks for BPD and I did not meet hardly any of the criteria so it was totally ruled out.
However, I was diagnosed as Major Depressive Disorder. I admit I used men to feel good. I liked the golden period and when it ends, I’m out cuz they no longer stave off my depressive states.
Empath is a metaphysical term vs MDD which is Type 1.
I have been told I am psychic by psychics. But, I am not into the metaphysical as I have a genius IQ and when all is well in my world, I am a scientist. Loaded with logic.
I stuff my empath traits. My emotions just cause me difficulties of all sorts.
Looking back on my life, perhaps I should be spending old age sitting on a street corner reading tarot cards for people searching for enlightenment. Looking for love . . .
I think Liz could have been a codependent, maybe she was BPD. it’s hard to say. Beauty and the Beast? She could have been a narc. I guess empaths/narcs are interchangeable. None of it matters really.
I’m not a HOT mess. I said I’m a mess. My life is a mess today becuz I’m f***ing depressed thank you.
Your blogs . . . who are you so angry at or what are you so angry about? Maybe your not an empath . . . seems your always picking a fight with someone.
Dragon/Goso, I do have bpd, but it’s not a personality type – despite the stigma. Sorry if you felt confronted, that was totally unintentional, i was in a happy camper mode and didn’t think too much before i posted, i should be more careful.
Emotions and empathy are distinct from one another. I’m a ‘hot mess’ sometimes, but i get if that sounds sexist – i suppose i do that reclaiming inflammatory terms in a popculture jokey way (we can’t contextualise things here). Thanks for sharing btw.
I believe she suggested goso might be borderline not you
Wth? Bpd isn’t a personality type? If you are referring to Borderline Personality Disorder it most certainly is and it’s an emotional dysregulatiom disorder. I was convinced I had this as my first narc had me exhibiting all kinds of these symptoms. It was him that was NPD comornid with BPD as most Narcs are comornid with other cluster B disorders. The Therapist and shrink both said I absolutely was not. I was Codependent and guess what ? A codependent that lies down with dogs gets up with fleas. Codependents are sponges. If you are exposed to them enough you begin to exhibit symptoms of THEIR disorder. You have to realize Narcs need the Codependent to experience their negative emotions for them. You are a receptacle for every feeling emotion and insecurity that they refuse to acknowledge in themselves. You wear the shame the insecurity and doubt that they cannot tolerate in themselves. If you want to know what their insecurities are simply examine all of the negative emotions you feel since you’ve been with them. All those negative feelings you feel it belongs to them.
Lori .. thank you for that . I can recall moments that I have felt so bad I could not understand where it came from – I removed myself from Narc ‘a presence and felt much better.
Lori, hi
Gaslighters aren’t interested in the realities of mental disorders, they’re only interested in the stigmas attached to ‘hysterial women /gays’ or the superpowers of psychopathy (‘edgelords’) – aka what does it do for their leverage against others? I won’t go into the technicalities of bpd because that’s not the focus of this blog, but it’s heterogeneous and individually based. That’s what i mean.
On further review, SpartanLifeCoach is full of gaslighting.
I roll
If I’m honest I have no idea what you you just said there. I know nothing about Spartan Life Coaching.
I only know my own reality and that I was once convinced I had BPD because I had many symptoms well that’s because I was with a NPD /BPD for 6 years. I was taking on his traits. I do not have BPD I have a moderate case of. Codependency and a touch of OCD other than that I was given a clean bill of health by both the shrink and the therapist and that I didn’t need continuous therapy anymore. When I stay away from Narcs, my codemoency is more in control still there but muted. Enter a a Narc it goes full blown
Lori, although narcissistic traits in people vary, npd is never comorbid with bpd. They’re opposing disorders, bpd = high affect and emotional dysregulation where cognitive processing is temporarily shut down, npd = low affect, a false self construct and no empathy for others. They both have a splitting mechanism, but in very different ways – bpd is motivated by abandonment fears, npd by self esteem regulation.
You have an untrained opinion only.
On further reading:
Comorbidity is a distinct diagnosis; rather than a ‘has both complete disorders’, has a mix of modified traits from different categories that make up their profile.
• Traits from both bpd + npd results = ‘severe’ borderline-heavy traits with some narcissistic traits (self-centered) usually combined with a high histronic score as well.
• Bpd can be comorbid with aspd. Aspd has a ‘zero-negative’ degree of empathy with others. Borderline antisocials are more emotionally volatile than regular ’emotionally flat’ antisocials.
• Bpd on its own, varies in severity
You don’t need all traits of a disorder to have the disorder. For eg. people with bpd are more likely to be suicidal than npd because npd is egosyntonic meaning symptoms support a person’s self-image, while bpd symptoms are egodystonic, meaning they are experienced as distressing, but not everyone with bpd is suicidal, etc.
People who are comorbid npd-aspd, are self-centered and lack remorse, these are the ‘malignant narcissists’, different from npd alone.
I roll I have no idea where you have gotten your information from. Cluster b disorders are frequently comornid especially NPD BPD and ASPD. My first Narc had both. There is usually one that is a bit more predominant
Thats not my opinion I believe it is documented in the DSM along with the American Journal of Psychiatry. I just read a study on this.
You may believe whatever works for you? but I do in fact personally know someone who had both
I’m right there with you, On!
I’m the angry one. Peace out.