Surely That’s The End, Yes?
“I have not heard from him in a month, he has moved on hasn’t he?”
“I exposed what she is like to all of her family, she won’t be contacting me again that’s for sure.”
“I told him I know what he is and he disappeared so I doubt I will hear from him again.”
“He is with somebody else already so I guess he won’t want me again will he?”
“I told him what I thought of him and he just backed off. He won’t hoover me will he?”
“He came crying back to me and I gave him short shrift. I doubt he will bother again.”
Wrong.
There are many different scenarios and outcomes involving our kind where the victim considers that our kind will not bother with them again post discard or post escape. The victim thinks that a period of total silence, the involvement of the narcissist with a new victim, the manner in which the relationship ended will all mean that the narcissist will not come sniffing around the victim ever again.
We will.
Why is this the case?
Firstly, you must understand our perspective. You belong to us. You are our appliance. You are our property. The Formal Relationship between us may have ended but the Narcissistic Relationship is forever. It only ends when either you or I cease to draw breath. It does not matter that we enter into a new Formal Relationship with somebody else. It does not matter if you do. It does not matter that world war three erupted when we parted company. It does not matter if there has been complete silence for two years. None of these factors alter the fact that in our minds the connection between you and I because of the Narcissistic Relationship lasts until one of us dies.
Secondly, the attraction of gathering fuel from you is substantial and this is the prime driver for never letting go. Fuel is so important to us that it drives everything about behaviour and the link between you and I is no exception to the all-pervasive power of fuel.
Thirdly, factors such as new partners, the effluxion of time and the manner in which the Formal Relationship has ended are immaterial.
I am repeatedly asked by people whether a hoover will happen. I always answer the same; the risk always remains, but you can manage that risk. People set out the circumstances of the end of the Formal Relationship to me and what has happened since (if anything) and ask whether a hoover will happen, or express their view that they do not think it will happen because of a, b or c. My answer again is the same; the risk of us returning always remains, but you can manage that risk.
It is never the end. There is always a risk, a chance, a probability (or a possibility) that we will return to you and apply a hoover. You cannot assume that it is over. No matter how much it may seem that it is over, no matter how much it may appear to you that we will not come back, that we apparently have no reason to do so, such assumptions are dangerous. There are only two factors which are material to the issue of whether you will be hoovered again.
The first factor is the Hoover Trigger. For a hoover to happen potentially, it must first be triggered. This means that you must come into our sights, that we sniff the prospective fuel that leaks from you, that something happens to cause you to come up on our radar. Whether this happens depends on whether you enter one of the six spheres of influence. I have written separately about them in The Spheres of Influence (And What You Can Do About Them) in another article. I will not repeat its content other than to state that
- You have control over whether you enter any of the first five spheres of influence; and
- You have no control over whether you enter the sixth sphere of influence.
By staying away from us through no contact you will not enter the first five spheres. The sixth sphere is when we happen to think of you. Thus, if you have successfully implemented no contact the only risk of a trigger being activated is if we happen to think of you. You cannot influence that. Our preoccupation with your replacement means we are far less likely to think of you and hoovers are triggered by you doing something to enter the first five spheres, such as messaging us or passing where we live.
If you maintain no contact the first five spheres will not be entered. It then just depends on whether we happen to think of you. This may not happen for weeks or months. You can therefore see that by staying out of the first five spheres you will vastly reduce the risk of a Hoover Trigger being activated but you cannot state that it will never happen as it is reliant on if we happen to think of you. That may just be a random occurrence or it might be because we see something that reminds us of you.
The second factor is only applicable if the Hoover Trigger has been activated. The second factor is concerns the Hoover Criteria. These criteria include such matters as: –
– Whether you are a potent source of fuel;
– Whether you can easily be located;
– Whether you can easily be contacted;
– Whether you have your defences maintained concerning us;
– Whether you remain mired in the emotional sea;
– What support networks you have in place;
– How well fuelled we are;
– The nature of the narcissist who you entangled with (Lesser, Mid-Range or Greater); and
– Potential obstacles
All of these matters combine to determine whether it is worthwhile us expending our energy to act on the Hoover Trigger. If we are presented with a sitting target, flowing with fuel, caught in the emotional sea, isolated and exposed then the criteria point heavily to the fact that a hoover will now take place. If on the other hand it is very hard to contact you, we know you have stopped flowing with fuel when dealing with us, you have people who will stop us trying to reach you and so forth, you become a Flawed Reason to Extract Emotion (F.R.E.E.).
For a worked example of how this can happen if someone enters the first sphere of influence I recommend that you read the article Hoover Time! Sphere One.
Accordingly, if you can do everything possible to become a F.R.E.E. then even if Hoover Trigger is activated then the chances of us executing that hoover will be considerably reduced. By contrast, if you fail to attain becoming a F.R.E.E. then you run the risk of a hoover being executed.
You will note that in the hoover criteria above there is no mention of the gap between when we last contacted you and the current time. There is no mention of the circumstances in which we parted company as the Formal Relationship. There is no mention of you knowing what we are, whether you told us, whether you exposed our abuses to others. Those are not factors which concern us. The existence of a new partner is not relevant either in isolation, but is only a partial consideration in terms of whether that person might stop us. Of course even if they might do so and all the other factors point to the execution of a hoover, this one criterion has diminished relevance.
Accordingly, when you are asking yourself whether a hoover may happen. Remember this.
- You can never say never.
- There needs to be a Hoover Trigger. You can significantly influence whether there is one and reduce the risk but you cannot remove it.
- The Hoover Criteria need to be met. Again, you can significantly influence whether the criteria are met by becoming a F.R.E.E. and reduce the risk, but you cannot remove it.
The issue of whether you will experience a hoover is not completely in your hands, but is far more within your control than you might at first have thought.
It is never the end but you are not helpless.
49 thoughts on “Surely That’s The End, Yes?”
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Dear HG: would a request to download Find my Friends app sent by exN be regarded as a benign hoover? I didn’t respond, just ignored the email about it.
It is and you did the correct thing.
Jess
Find my friends lol. If only they could share in the hilarity of how transparent they are.
NA, I laughed when I received that request! I’ve gotten 2 more emails since then, B’day and Xmas wishes – all ignored. Am now 5 months NC and hoping that the email hoovers will die down soon.
Jess
Good work. Just keep ignoring. Hey…..did you get my Find My Friends request?
“Ps … you’re spot on about a narc will always Hoover ….. they’re like boomerangs … they always come back.” With all due respect, this is not an accurate statement. THEY DO NOT ALWAYS COME BACK. As, HG puts it, there is always a RISK. A risk does not equal certainty. There are very few things in the world where “always” would be appropriate and accurate. This is not one of them.
Dear Insatiable Learner,
Thank you for pointing it out to me, you’re quite correct.
I appreciate your reply.
Kindly
Bubbles ☺️
Dear Mr Tudor,
Got the ” Hoover ” today at our prestigious event …. he walked past (twice) in front myself, Mr Bubbles and our two friends that he knows and he smiled and acknowledged them … I had my head turned away from him and had no eye contact! (They were telling me what he was doing)😱
What did that mean and now what? Why twice ???
PS … I got confirmation today of the latest female he’s been with …. who wasn’t by his side today … does that mean he devaluing her ?
I’m confused because he walked past not once, but twice ….. deliberately!
He was definately showing off! What the ????
Many thanks
Indirect physical hoover to ascertain your response.
Thankyou Mr Tudor.
There was and has been no response from me.
He would’ve gained No fuel from me … correct?
Did I do good? What now?
Ps … you’re spot on about a narc will always Hoover ….. they’re like boomerangs … they always come back 😂
Correct. You maintain no contact.
Of course I am Bubbles, I know my kind.
Dear Mr Tudor,
You’re brilliant, absolutely brilliant …. if it wasn’t for you … I wouldn’t have been able to handle the situation (I probably would’ve said “hello”, just to be polite.. ain’t that pathetic and the weasel would’ve won). I did have a somewhat anxious sleep that night, but I’m now back on track… my heartfelt thanks and Mr Bubbles as well, to you.
Your forever learning student
Bubbles 👩🎓🍾
You are welcome.
I was seduced online 20 years ago. Transatlantic style. Many plausible excuses as to why we could not be together. Life moves on. Marriages. Divorces. Children. Present day. The financial and Transatlantic barriers are removed thanks to wi-fi and career/financial success. What’s to stop us now? His career brings him to my continent often, a cheap weekend flight away for me. My career brings me one train-stop away from him on his home turf. Will it finally happen for us? After reading HG, I’m embarrassed as the signs were splayed out in front of me all along. Do I miss the promise of what he was, of what we were? Hell yes. But HG injected in me the potent reality of what it all truly was. I find many here are still struggling with the fantasy. As much as it kills the soul, and I’m still recovering, the first painful step is recognizing the love fraud that has occurred. It was never real. And that really sucks. If you can’t journey one train stop to meet up with your forever beloved, then that speaks volumes. And I hate you because I love who I thought you to be.
It’s been over 100 days now. I’ve enjoyed watching you Hoover via social media channels I’d forgotten about, just as HG predicted. But I keep reminding myself I was a mere train stop away and quickly block that forgotten channel sans response. I know you’re just suffering a fuel defiency when you attempt contact. Even though I wish it was a sign of so much more, similar to how I miss you, I know you’re not capable of that. I would not have missed that train or plane to be with you. I was all in. I accept that you are not like me.
How I feel. I flew around the freaking WORLD to see him. And he could not even bother to show up on time, or drop his fake life to come see me. That spoke volumes. That is why I know he will NEVER hoover me. He has nothing left to try even if he wanted to. I shot down to his face (text) every lie he told me. His “you know this is real” I flung back in his face… you effing liar. What would he say to me? How is the weather Sarabella? He tried one mini hoover when I thought we might be friends and it filled me with elation that see he does… drop.. no he doesn’t… he doesn’t care at all. Nothing he could ever say would ever convince me to open my heart to him or let my guard down ever again. It is done. Completely done. The only thing that would ever work would be if one day, he told me he got a plane ticket like I did, and was on his way to see me. Won’t happen. I wounded him pretty good with something even thought he had wounded me with that same thing and of course, his wounds were ok, I was supposed to just be over them. If this were before I got my money back, I would say there was risk. But there isn’t anymore and that is why I fought for that money back. To make sure I left nothing that he could contact me about later on. He can’t contact me about the money, he can’t ask how I am doing (not his style), he can’t seduce me anymore (he doesn’t even like me). When you see what it all comes down to, how fickle all of those so called ‘connecting’ points were, its really sad that someone could hurt another life so deeply over so little.
Sarabella, thank you for responding to my comments. It still hurts this empath (me) so much because he’d play the pity game which played on my heart strings every time I’d had enough. “Tomorrow is a new day for me to try to gain your trust again” he’d say. But for as much as an empath I am, I’m also logical. I hate ignoring anyone, but I’m also very conscientious of someone being more into me than me into them and not wanting to lead them on by further engagement. I don’t want to give anyone false hope by being merely polite, so I will quit responding to someone if I pick up that doing so sends the wrong message to them. Not so with the narc as HG shows us. And that’s where I get really pissed, because it’s there and then that it’s so evident that’s the narc knows how I feel, knows he’ll never reciprocate, but continues to lead me on/future fake for his own selfish gain. I’d never do this to someone who feels more for me than I do him. But that’s my empath sins of justice and honesty and trying to do the right thing by someone.
Anyway, thank you again for replying. I told you awhile back our stories were similar. I handed my trust over easily to someone because I knew them 20 years ago, despite being married and divorced from a victim narc in the interim. I’m still baffled that other humans behave the way my narc has and just toy with people. I falsely thought being in our 40’s now, some maturity and wisdom had taken root.
Thanks beautiful Sara for understanding.
Oh, yeah. That is what hurt me so badly. He knew I cared the first time, and then the second time. He KNEW he hurt me the first time, and it didn’t phase him that he lured me into trusting him, faked begging me to care again, only to hurt me again. In exactly the same way. Takes a real POS to do that. So yeah, he led me on the entire time. I don’t forgive that. I could never imagine doing to someone what he did. All for cheap fuel. Just like your story, too. 🙁
Sarabella, HG, and readers, pardon as I’ll just use this post to continue to express some thoughts I’ve held inside for awhile during this recovery journey. I hope they don’t seem too rambled. I just feel the need to let them out.
Plug for HG! I’ve learned more about myself and empaths here than I have through therapy. I’m more patient and understanding and use more logic now when confronted with emotional responses from others in both my professional and personal life.
I’ve also learned that part of the addiction for me is not so much about the specific narc. For me, the drive has been wanting to get to the heart of the matter, a drive and addiction to get to truth and to make sense of things. Not to heal things. I guess traditional therapy taught me I can’t save anyone. I feel no drama and turmoil with HG. He tells us who he is and what’s behind everything. For that I respect him. For me, the addiction cycle happened because every fiber in my being knew something was off, not true, etc., but his words didn’t match.
That addiction to ‘truth’ and order sucked me into the vortex. There really was nothing ‘extraordinary’ about the narc himself to hook me in the manner I became addicted and dizzy. Had he just presented who he was as HG does, he’d have my genuine regard. None of us are perfect. I think the narc needs our frenzied emotional fuel more than genuine positive stable regard.
Sad as I feel with the latter I could have remained a true loyal faithful friend in his life. But I had to get off the narc coaster to preserve myself and my inner fuel.
It really could have been that easy, if you’d been as honest and upfront as HG is on here.
Thank you.
Sarabella, First off, congratulations on 13 months. However, are you truly no contact if you are saying “if he ever voluntarily unblocks me on Whatsapp”? Is he not blocked on your end? If he was, how would you ever know if he unblocked you? I am not judging you. How could I if I never blocked the narc I got entangled with anywhere? I am just posing this as a question for you to think about. I know for me when I resolve in my mind this is the end, I feel a lot better and start detaching more but when I think about all the what if’s, I am really hindering my own recovery and prolonging my own pain. Wishing you peace and healing.
Insatiable Learner….
I hear you. Its important to know that I don’t feel any pain anymore. Its more of a mind thing with me, whatever is left. But now, I only process it through the filter of what did this mean as a reflection of my whole life? of what my mother did to me? of what my father did? My siblings who joined in in their roles that we all had? And then, of what I did to MYSELF as a result of narc abuse which I really think came from my mother.
I have my Instagram account and a brand new FB account. I have no intention of blocking him in the later as I started it about 6 months after our last massive fight and I have no intention of giving him any thought fuel by blocking him when he made it clear he has no intention of ever speaking to me again. I have no doubts that his is a narcissist. Extremely psychotic, too. I just have something to get back to take my power in it all and that is to show him that I know he is there… and I will never, ever say a word to him again. He thought once I could never do it. After telling him I was saying bye forever, I mean to show him it.
So I don’t need to block him. And I get the dynamic. I am not worried, its not hope, secret wishes he contacts me because I know him and I know he just is not ever going to reach out. The problem was ME always trying to fix it with him before I got it that he rigged it all to go exactly as it did. He was darn clear after all his seductions that there was afterall, NOTHING between us. And because if and when I decide to make anything public of my life (not on FB, that is locked down) but on IG… it is going to be nothing but me doing well. That’s it.
I hear all the advice but I honestly am not worried. I take the advice where it works well but if I had taken the advice to walk away from my $5k, I would still be connected to him and if that’s true, that they get loans sometimes to keep that link on purpose, then I did the right thing by going after that money. Everyone told me to forget about it. I had only one person tell me to fight. But I was so afraid that if he kept that money, I would be connected to his life for a very long time. Nothing remains in the cord between us.
I appreciate your concern, but I have a point to prove in this and not to him, but to myself. Just like I have a point to prove to my horrible mother that I have no intention of ever trying to chase down a mother I never had. I am just done with these people. Let them see that I can and have gone on with my life. A part of me has become very hard and brittle/bitter around this so that is what will keep them far from me.
He says that I was too affectionate, that I needed too much love, that I wanted to much attention etc Then he said he did not deserved as much.
Dear HG
I witnessed a very anxious, troubled looking woman unexpectedly come into his radar and within seconds he was trying to catch her attention and even followed her around the building getting very proximate to her. (Cringeworthy to watch.) With the benefit of hindsight this is the way he approached me in the beginning. He knows I saw it all. Tried to evade me on his way out but had to pass by me and gave me a quick wave and brief smile. She’s going to be ensnared isn’t she?
How does the (cerebral) mid ranger feel, experience and what’s going on in his mind when he suddenly spots a new victim? Also, why didn’t he just ignore me?
Thanking you in anticipation of your answers,
Daisy
It depends on whether the victim is being engaged with on a romantic, social, work or otherwise basis.
It is the end because I say so.
I have to say everytime I get blocked I think ok this is it. The final disengagement and a weird sense of relief comes knowing it’s out of my hands. Almost as if I’m happy for him to have the control and taking himself away from me. It sounds strange but it’s true and then the unblocking happens.
Hopefully this is the last time at least for a long while. There is a peace when they are gone and you know there is nothing you can do about it
Oh, no, its not strange. When I was caught in a fight or flight emotional space with him, engaging heavily, but knowing I needed to get away, I could not cut the ties. I so wanted him to be who he had pretended. Found it hard to swallow he never was. So in the midst of that, I one day just started to tell him to unfriend me, go away, block me. I caught him off guard. He was like what nonesense is this… a massive push/pull battle began that lasted for over an hour. Finally, he unfriended me, I think blocked me. I felt incredible relief. Phew. Out of my hands. He chose it, didn’t fight for me. That’s it. Over. Next day, he unblocks me, sends me a message, claiming that was mean. I think he went into a similar small panic attack over losing my fuel (not me). A few weeks later, I sent him a friend request since he had undone it. Later, we got in fights and he just blocked me. He has never voluntarily unblocked me. Only once, when I asked to talk to him through one open channel. He said yes, but we should to to anohter App (where I was blocked). So now, he had a reason to unblock me there. I needed support after a family loss. Next day, he unblocked me everywhere. My sense of relief was gone, and anxiety was back. Of course, he baited me and withint 4 months, we were fighting again. And then I am blocked in everything he blocked me in but I restared a brand new, closed FB account and he has not blocked me, I have not spoken to him. I am pretty sure he knows I have the account as we have 3 mutual friends (down from 78! which is why I abandoned my other account).
But I did what I did for exactly the reasons you described. I wanted HIM to take control of it all. Let him take control over ending it by blocking me. I wanted him to take himself away from him. I always got him to leave but he in his way came back, in my way, I also went back. But not anymore. Learning to care more about myself daily has removed any desire to ever rekindle that nightmare.
I have been blocked and unblocked so many times I’ve lost count. I know at least 10. Hopefully this is the last for awhile. I was blocked from his phone but I think I have been unblocked because when I was blocked the iMessage arrow was green now it just shows a microphone and when I type a message it’s not green letters anymore. I have no idea and I haven’t tested to find out. I also have another account that I don’t use but have not been blocked there. I’m just behaving as if I’m blocked everywhere and I have moments where I’m sad but they pass and overall I feel much better when I don’t see him. So I will not be asking him to unblock me. At some point you have to take note of your own wellness and recognize that contact = pain.
Contact = PAIN ALWAYS
Just don’t do it. It never turns out well. I was 3 weeks I. And broke it and again it didn’t turn out well nor will it ever
I may not feel the best but i feel safe and I’m not getting hurt over and over so yeah I’m glad he did it
The bigger question is is he glad he did it? It always seems so for awhile ….and then the light bulb flips on how am I supposed to get fuel if She can’t contact me?
I think this maybe the last time for awhile but you just never know
At some point you just want off the crazy train even though you have lost the ability to remove yourself.
My only concern is that I’m glad he did it and if I’m glad well you know he will instinctively know this as they have a 6th sense for knowing your emotional state. So you know he can’t ever let that stand. Nope no gladness or contentment for you victim so therefore I will need to appear in YOUR sphere. Forget his damn sphere he shows up in mine!
But right now it’s been a quiet drama free 8 days. I’m just grateful to not be in an agitated state. Things aren’t super great but certainly better than they were. One day at a time.
I am going on 13 months. I will never, ever reach out to him ever again. If he ever voluntarily unblocks me from Whatsapp, I will take it as nothing but a hoover (and I will lose my bet with HG) and not that he regrets baiting and fighting with me and so he wants to make peace with me. (Of course, in his eyes, I was the only one who was fighting.) I regard him as nothing but an enemy now.
Yup I remember from the past. PAIN ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS. No exception
Lori, g/f, it is not out of your hands. Take your power back! Block him and then delete his number out of your phone. No more emotional hokey-pokey. Dictate peace on your terms, not his.
I deleted his number. I can clearly see that I feel much better when he’s gone. The first week is rough then the cloud lifts and some clarity comes and the anxiety lessens
I do feel better no question
Lori…..you are actually blocked? I am always “threatened” with blocking but it never happens….
On Facebook yes. It’s been done so many times I’ve lost count but this is the longest. So maybe it’s permanent. I can get him. Im pretty sure he unblocked me on his phone and he didn’t block my other profile just my main one that use. Either way it doesn’t matter. He is a narc. I have no future with this man and communication with him is pointless.
Contact =pain every.single.time.
Beginning week 3 of no contact ! Yay
Just don’t do it
Lori
Stop bloody checking! You will never move forward unless you do. He doesnt even have to do anything and hes winning because its a stupid game youre playing with yourself. Overcome that and you have a shot.
Thank you for the warning/counsel.
HG, I look forward to your future Contagion Empath article.
I recently had an incident at work (Friday) with the Upper Mid Range Cerebral, which I will share in due time, once I have mulled it over. (That’s my way–I have to think a lot 1st before I can share it.)
However, I can say your influence has made quite an impact on not only on how I react to him but also I don’t think about it afterwards, and I stick with my perspective, and that is all.
He is such a smarmy, smug ass. The typical Mid Ranger Douche.
I think they might be my least fave narcissist. Is there such a thing? I think I get to be too much for them. I get told I am “too feisty” or “too opinionated” or “too stubborn.” I seem to wear them out, ultimately. I disappoint them. I am proud to accept this, however.
I bask in the knowledge of my being too much for them.
I have learned a lot about empaths from you and just like with narcs, I had the wrong idea.
Well done.
Oh that’s a standard phrase. I got told I’m “too much” code for stop trying to make me accountable!
I got called a bitch, because I also made him accountable, or tried.
you will always be “too” something. Too pretty too smart too nice too mean too happy too sad you name it
Way to go on your too muchness, Bibi!
Bibi
I have a dislike for midrangers they are like cockroaches….you see one a hundred more are hiding in the cracks.
This is a coworker I have observed go through the Mid Range patterns. Such a sense of entitlement and there is no having a conversation with him, as he has to take over and be the expert on everything.
When I 1st was hired on, he was so nice to me and said how sweet I was. Then over time, I think my ‘treachery’ involved the fact that I didn’t go to him with questions anymore (why would I when I know what I am doing?), that I had strong opinions about books (he used to being the only one who reads literature), and that I am not in intellectual awe of him.
He approaches people with the notion that they are intellectually inferior to him. He is very condescending.
I’ve never had any kind of altercation with him, (I try to avoid any conflict) but he’s so weird and cold and full of prickers not just to me but in general. In the beginning he was so nice and talkative.
In the past I might have been wondering what I did wrong, but I don’t care because it’s his Mid Ranger tendencies that are emerging.
He even manages to bully people subtly, manipulate to get his way, will continually leave messes behind that others have to pick up, he is convinced he has been screwed over by life, etc. etc. as if he is the only one who has ever had struggles.
I just turn off. I don’t want to listen to him and I give him no fuel. He has no idea I am as silly and funny as I am because around him I am as exciting as a dry can of beige paint.
He really has no idea what he is and he is so unaware that people would find his acts abrasive. Mid Rangers, when they are devaluing you, never ask you questions about yourself, unless they are loaded questions, like they want to stir something in you.
He is very much an Angel with a Dirty Face. Occasionally he will tell a funny joke and some will jump at it, laughing–oh haha but I never laugh at his jokes.
HG, you do realize that with your writing you have succeeded to make us into more malfunctioning appliances? Our manufacturers are going to be getting a shit ton of complains.
I will turn on when I want to! 😛
Is this the same for ipss?
Is what the same for IPSS?