Sadistic Streak
You could be forgiven for thinking that all of our kind are sadists. From your perspective, much of our behaviour, if not all, makes no sense and therefore it could be argued that to behave in the manner that we do must mean that we are all sadists. That is an understandable proposition. After all, if one day a person is kind to you and then the next is nasty to you when you have given them no reason to behave like that, then surely such behaviour is sadistic is it not? The behaviour has no grounding in any logic, the nastiness is manifesting just for the hell of it, is it not? Are we then not deriving pleasure from your hurt and discomfort and therefore that must makes us sadists?
A true or pure sadist is one who derives pleasure from the sadistic act. This often manifests in a sexual arena in that the act of sadism is acted out in a sexual engagement or the sadist becomes sexually aroused from the sadistic act (which may not be sexual in nature). Accordingly, a sadist may derive sexual pleasure from flagellating a bound and gagged individual. Similarly, a sadist may become sexually aroused from murdering the pet kitten of someone else.
Those of you have familiarity with my works will understand that fromm the narcissistic perspective, what we do is not done solely for pleasure (indeed we do not experience pleasure or joy) but rather it is done for the purposes of gaining fuel. It is our need for fuel which is the driver behind all of our behaviours because the emotional response of another provides us with the validation that we desperately require to fill up the void which exists inside of us.
The acquisition of fuel occurs in many, many arenas. It might be gaining a smile from an appreciative stranger as get in a lift with them, from the tears of our partner who is crying after we have held them by the throat and described how much we hate them or from them ecstatic groans of our lover as we provide them with orgasmic relief. In each instance, fuel is what flows, fuel is the aim and fuel is what is required.
All of our kind receives fuel from the emotional response of others. We do not feel joy from inflicting pain on you because we do not feel joy. Your pained expression provides fuel. It could be tears, it could be a smile, it could be laughter. As long as there is an emotional response then we gain fuel.
When you are hurt from our manipulations this is a by product of our need to gain fuel. It is a collateral consequence. Our lack of empathy means that we do not care that you are hurt. However, it goes further than this. The reduced cognitive function of the Lesser (and to some degree the lower echelons of the Mid-Ranger) means that not only do they not care that you are being hurt, they do not know you are being hurt. They see an emotional reaction and that provides fuel (although of course they do not know the mechanics of that operation). They cannot recognise the pain. I appreciate this will be rather hard for some people to grasp – how can he not know I am hurt when I am telling him so and he sees my face twisted in pain and the tears spilling down my face? The fact is, those members of our brethren neither care nor know. Thus when you are manipulated it is done purely for the fuel, it is not done primarily to hurt you. This is cold comfort nevertheless as the outcome remains the same. You are hurt.
Where we have a sadistic streak (and this is more prevalent with the upper echelons of the Mid-Range and the Greater Narcissist) we know we are hurting you and we do not care. The knowledge of your hurt adds further fuel. Accordingly, your emotional response which we witness provides us with the fuel (in the same way as a Lesser or lower echelon Mid-Ranger would) but the knowledge you are being hurt and we are causing this, provides us with extra potent fuel.
A sadist behaves in the way that he or she does purely for the sake of pleasure. We do not do it. If we have a sadistic streak then we deploy it in our machinations for two purposes:-
- The provision of extra-potent fuel as described above; and
- For the purposes of punishment and revenge.
Our aim, through this sadism, is not solely pleasure but rather the reinforcement of our superiority. Not all of our kind wish to punish, hence, they have no sadistic streak. The Mid-Ranger who has lost his primary source will feel fury for this transgression but he is far more likely to direct his energies to applying an Initial Grand Hoover to get you back and reinstate the golden period. He has no urge to punish you. Even if that IGH fails, he will then focus on recruiting a new primary source and he will leave you alone. There may be benign follow-up hoovers when he devalues the new primary source, but there is still no desire to punish you He may be looking to ‘win you back’ or just gain positive fuel. If this fails, he may not apply a malign hoover, but instead will leave you be before returning at a later juncture with another benign hoover (if conditions are right).
If you have been discarded by a Lesser but you keep trying to find out why he has discarded you, he will apply malign hoovers. This is not done as an act of revenge, but is rather done to make you stay away so he can focus on his new primary source and so you will not spoil this golden period by telling lies (the truth) about him to the new primary source. He wants you deleted and the malign hoovers are a response to your interference.
If you find yourself in a situation where you know that your particular narcissist has a new primary source, you are doing nothing to enter the spheres of influence but your narcissist will not leave you alone and is applying malign hoovers against you, this is evidence of the sadistic streak. It manifests as a malicious obsession which causes you to enter the sixth sphere of influence (see the relevant section in What is Making Him Come Back? ) and then the Hoover Execution Criteria are met.
The relevant narcissist may not actually receive any Proximate Fuel from you as you are treated to these malign hoovers because he cannot see your reactions, so you may wonder, why would he do this? The reasons are as follows:-
- The sadistic streak means that he is willing to sacrifice the fuel he is gaining from the new primary source to carry out this sadistic, malign campaign against you. Usually, the narcissist will want to gorge on this positive fuel from the new primary source and keep his attention on this person, but where there is a sadistic streak, he is willing to use some of this fuel to power the malicious campaign against you as the discarded or escaped former primary source.
- The sadistic behaviour allows for the provision of Thought Fuel as the sadistic narcissist contemplates your terrified reactions and it is his perception of how you feel (even though he cannot see it and thus it is not Proximate Fuel) . Ordinarily, a non-sadistic narcissist would not bother to apply the energy to gain this weaker Thought Fuel but a sadistic narcissist will do so.
- Our superiority is maintained by doling out punishment and revenge. A non-sadistic narcissist would seek that reinforcement with a new primary source (because it is easier to gain that positive fuel from them and to focus on them solely). The demands of the sadistic narcissist are such that he requires this ratification and validation from both current primary source (positive fuel) and discarded former primary source (negative Thought Fuel and the power felt from the application of revenge).
Accordingly, when you are entangled with a narcissist, so that the Formal relationship is continuing and you are being devalued, and he exhibits sadistic behaviours towards you, this is for the purposes of gaining extra potent fuel. If the sadism occurs post escape or discard, this is done to punish you. If Proximate Fuel arises, so much the better but if it does not, this is not a massive concern to the sadistic narcissist because we are willing to sacrifice the fuel gained from another source in order to power our desire to achieve revenge over you.
Since you look at matters from your perspective and not ours, you may find it difficult to truly distinguish when sadistic behaviour is being used against you during the Formal Relationship. It is, however, at its most recognisable when you have escaped us or have been discarded. If you know we have a new primary source but there is a campaign of hurtful behaviour being used against you – slashing the tyres on your car, putting bricks through your windows, posting unsavoury comments about you online, handing outflyers accusing you of child abuse and such like – this is the sadism being manifested. This is not a smear because the smearing happens prior to your discard (so we have got in first) or if you have escaped, the smear will happen before we get another primary source. The key determining factor in knowing that you are facing a sadistic narcissist is that we have a new primary source and instead of relishing solely in the golden period with them, we are lashing out at you again and again.
21 thoughts on “Sadistic Streak”
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All of this information has been both helpful and awful. Your posts overwhelm my inbox. Your stories keep my mind locked on the abuse that I have endured and continue too. I have a child with my Narc and of course he uses and hurts her to hurt me.
I read everything you write, hoping, praying to see something in them that will unlock the key, unlock the cycle. I can’t walk away, we have a child. I read and I read and I read and I feel cold and scared and helpless the more I read. There is no way out no escape, nothing will ever, ever, ever make the Narc care about you or the awful things they do to people. They are empty shells, not of evil, no that would give them to much credit. They are the void, the empty, the nothing, and they know it. This is what I am learning.
I read what you write and I see, that you laugh, think the rest of us are weak, ( or try to think that) that rules and caring are for fools, and it scares the hell out of me. And then I found it, I found what I needed.
Narcs are the void, they are not a part of the world, they don’t laugh with joy, feel the sun with joy, feel their hearts swell when their child laughs. They don’t feel empathy, or connection, or real pride in anything they do. They are Nothing. How can you fear nothing?
Nothing needs something. Something is the rest of us. Something has power, something has life.
I am working on forgiveness now. It’s been hard, I don’t want to forgive. There is a huge part of me that views forgiveness as more victimhood. As if I were saying its ok to treat me this way, I’ll just let you and forgive. Forgiveness is something, it is love, it is truth it is freedom, it is courage. I need to forgive myself as well. There is a shame in having someone treat you this way. Ahh but the freedom of forgiveness, that is only something I can do. Not my Narc. He needs me, I do not need him.
Pitty? I’m not sure that is the path, I think the path is acceptance. Acceptance that there is a void, and empty and that there is no winning, only moving on. I will stand in the light of Joy. I won’t gloat, I won’t be proud that I have what you don’t. I will live and accept , that the void is there, I’ve seen it, I went through it and I am done. That is no longer my path and I have the choice to leave it. I have the power to walk away from the void. The Narc does not.
I am Done.
This was helpful to read. I feel that pride or gloating and many other things I have used to stay away are keeping some part of the story alive and active. And as you said, that forgiveness and letting it all go seems like it will signal that in some level it was ok to treat me that way, that the door is now back open to him and any other narc freak who wants to have a go. This part isn’t easy. Taking down me 3 verbal attacks on him calling him out a year ago feels like consent, yet leaving them feels like it’s still keeping his ick alive in my life. This part is very tricky and I think calls in alot of faith that I will be ok just closing the books on it all.
Hi unseen…forgiveness is imo a true sign if healing but to forgive doesnt mean you have to forget. Also protect yourself and accept all these things about the narcissist but also realise its toxic to stay with them.
I know its easier said than done and especially where children are involved. Escape is the ultimate goal and moving on in your life free of narc abuse.
This article brings up some bad memories from my childhood id had stored away. It wasnt until i read this that they surfaced. My dad i can say has a sadistic side along with my brother. Both when it comes to animals. Even just commenting on this makes me sick to think of it. I think why i put it in the back of my mind was to be able to still have a daughter/father relationship. I remember as a child when id hurt myself my dad would laugh.
Im a huge animal lover and looking back im disgusted. It repulses me how he treated our dog who had came from an already abusive home.
I can see that he enjoyed inflicting pain and was sadistic. Theres no other reason why hed do what he did other than a perverse enjoyment of creating pain.
Ill never understand why anyone would enjoy seeing another in pain emotionally or physically.
I think every narc has a trace of sadism in the fact they enjoy negative fuel. Mind you thats more an ego stroke vs getting off on someones pain.
Sadism is a projected wound – to defend the wounded self, and in combo with npd, it has the split duality / rollercoaster pattern to it. The pathological sadist is both gaining pleasure from building their grandiose facade through the effects of having power over others and also, strangely(!) killing the parts of themselves connected to their own shameful vulnerabilities which they project onto the ‘victim’. Hence why they seek to use your love as evidence of your (aka their) weakness and their superiority. Gathering ‘fuel’ follows the logic of the complex, to build the facade and defend against emotion.
This is part re-enactment of trauma, especially where the mother has made the child feel ashamed, but it also comes from a lack of emotional development and empathic intelligence towards the self and others – they believe that “caring is weakness and the enemy of power”. They are simple creatures who weave great compensatory complexity around themselves all based on this little belief that has taken on paranoid dimensions. If they could take it down a notch or several then it would just be a strong boundary – but they’ve taken it all the way to “must destroy!” Intimacy makes them feel trapped, rejection makes them feel worthless. They are constantly consuming others and defending their territory.
Once you know this, then it is easier to avoid the wounded projection and not play the role they give you which is designed to weaken you. When they can’t project onto you, they ‘want’ you (to regain control) and you will be able to see their weaknesses more easily. You have a place in their compartment store, that may seem insignificant in terms of empathic relationships, but it still functions to mirror them – protect them from your individuality and feed their egocentric needs.
You have to remain unaffected and independent to avoid playing into their projections – if you punish them you are the ‘bad mother’, you give them an excuse to deny their shame because you are the bad one aka giving ‘fuel’. If you love/need them when they degrade you, then you have proven yourself weak and deserve to be punished, aka giving ‘fuel’.
It’s all about escaping the projection – the self-mirroring mechanism through which they ‘feed’ off of you. Depending on circumstances, i think it is worth remaining in the spheres of influence as a passive actor, to observe and learn that their cycles of behaviour have little to do with you and if anything, show a lot of fear towards you. Male narcs are overcome with oedipal obsessions and fears of women. In my experience, they will do anything for you as long as you’re unobtainable – yet not obviously punishing, let them punish themselves instead, don’t do that work for them.
The only way they can experience feelings is in ‘social exile’, because that’s the consequence of what they’ve chosen. They don’t lack all feeling, but they are avoiding their reality all the time and feelings are supposed to, in the end, give us insight into ourselves, so that we own our pain and limitations instead of projecting them onto others. Doing that makes a person unloveable. They know this on some level, they’re not all stupid they’re just designed to deny reality.
So many good things here. I don’t have time to respond to them all, but this may be a part of why he could cush compliments on it others could say nothing nice about me. Shame around me was huge on his part. And I was attainable, because I had loved him. So he despised me for it.
I don’t know if this is just a coincidence, but my ex-husband’s new (to me) squeeze has a first-and-middle-name-combo that is almost identical to that of my sister…
hg, do narcissist get more sadistic with age like they say
Not necessarily, no.
Hi HG, I have read many of your books, thank you for publishing them as they have helped me tremendously. Are all Narcs able to make you feel horny all the time and have wet panties? The man I was with made me crazy with his feeling of being horny all the time in my abdomen so I would have sex with him and he could control me, is that normal? I had this feeling for 2 years, he drove me crazy and didn’t let go until he had his next victim, a deaf woman. I have not been able to find this information any where in books or the internet.
Not all narcissists, no, many do.
Thank you for your response.
I have had NC with him since November, no email, no phone, no social media, no nothing. He is able to touch me from two states away, any time he wants. He wakes me up in the mornings at 4, 5, 6 AM, he can make me sick to my stomach if he thinks I have been out with another man, he makes my chest hurt (I think he is trying to make me feel as if my heart is breaking, not working). I can feel when he has sex too. Will this ever go away
Well theres an advantage to being deaf-she wont be able to hear his bullshit.
Hi pj… ive been with my narc as a secondary source for 7 years. The first 4 years i had this same reaction constant lust and sexual addiction. I say addiction bc thats what it was. Once he started to shelf me and once the devaluments added up the sexual attraction really started to subside. Also once you learn about narcissism and how hollow it is your feelings change. Im still attracted to my narc but its not at all how i originally was. Its lust plain and simple and lust doesnt last.
I like that phrase “lust doesnt last” lol i think ill use it.
My very first narc i had an intense lust for but nothing like this narc. Its all an illusion spun by them but it fades eventually.
My natc and i are still intimate but id say my addiction is deeper than the sex way deeper. Its more a reliance which imo is worse. If it was only the lust it wouldve been over long long ago.
I have come to believe you are missing a humanity switch, of you mind connected to your heart. You are some type of Alien and Eliviness. AS for the drug of choice being an addict YOU use human-beings. You are bottom feeders of taking any kind of supply positive or negative. YOU are missing the connection of empathy. MANY things you do of acting like a n human-being is learned by watching other and mimicking. LIke Mork from Mork and Mindy. This is a play you are in, the same words moves and gifts, just different actors you play with. YOU know the difference of right and wrong, but you pick wrong as it feels right to you. YOU think NOTHING will ever mess up your ways of life and you put yourselves in many ways of messing your lives up. YOU believe you are superior to the normal human-being. BUT you are always having a hole you have to fill with supply of appliance. BUT nothing is ever enough. YOU have many that you use like a vamipre seeking blood and to have those sired to you. IN some hooky poky way, we have some cosmic connection to you that is very had to break. YOU many of YOU are a gigolo when it comes to sex.
The list can go on and on. BUT most of us has been with the same person with a different face, AS it seems there is a book of HOW to be a Narcissist as all of our stories of how we were treated and manipulated and lied to matches so well. I know evil is out there in the world, I just thought if it comes in your life, you in some way invited it in. Well, I am thankful that my anger and hate made me over come the pain of the Narcissist and became a spiritual warrior. AS I messed his life up as much as I could to help his other victims. Some times WE are part of the Karma that someone is in for of their wicked ways….so be it Amen
The picture got me VERY excited.
Thanks, HG,
I understand now the why of some of what happened to me, you’re filling in the blanks pieces.
Reading, reading and reading.
Reading is the path to freedom.
So, would it be correct to say that “fuel” is essentially the same thing as attention, but that attention has an emotional component to it?
In essence, yes. The book Fuel expands on the matter.