World Narcissistic Abuse Awareness Day
Hello good readers,
WNAAD takes place on the 1st-2nd June and is a marquee event with regard to enabling you to learn more about narcissism and its impact.
Bree Bonchay, who is a psychotherapist and her colleagues have applied considerable effort and organisation to this year’s event and there is a host of various speakers about the subject of narcissism and of course your dear narrator is involved also. Accordingly, that alone means you should sign up and receive this useful and insightful content.
To ensure you are able to do so, do visit the link below and sign up and await the provision of various discussions and interviews which will undoubtedly be of interest to you, but we all know the real reason you will want to listen don’t we?
This is a most worthwhile event and I advocate that you become involved through listening.
393 thoughts on “World Narcissistic Abuse Awareness Day”
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Did the cheese woman (bree) and the other one actually see you in human form HG? Or did they just get a disguised HG?
They did not see me.
ahhhh I missed it all for I was out of the country:(:( I really hope that i can catch the interview on UTube at some point in time
I did too 🙁
Spreaker App. Search Telesummit. 😉
Chihuahuamum and Star,
Were you able to listen?
“Spreaker App. Search Telesummit. 😉”
Good point Clarece. But for me, I’ve saved myself some time; because now I know where not to bother going.
Plus, I had personal reasons for being able to present a balanced view on things…because some of us may have experienced instant barriers to the assertion: “A narcissistic sociopath told me…”
I agree with the point made by Windstorm:
“I’d have tried at least a part of every interview if I’d had more time. Although I swear the last one was entirely a promo of the woman’s book and how incredibly helpful it would be if we purchase it or do one of her webinars.”
I agree; there was more than one interview that was ‘promotional’ in nature.
I viewed all the interviews (with the exception of the last half of one of them). Part of the reason I did this is because after once having discovered HG’s work I had not ventured elsewhere to listen to videos etc., because I couldn’t be bothered to wade through a lot of useless stuff. So, I figured that I may as well take advantage of the fact that the talks were free, concentrated, and representative of the ‘experts’ on this topic, plus I listened with the assumption that people were sharing pertinent (from WNAAD’s pov) unique and current perspectives on the topic of narcissistic abuse. (Other than HG’s work, and preceeding this year’s interviews, I had been exposed to the work of only 2 or 3 of them – and not extensively.)
Two further observations were highlighted for me, after listening to the interviews:
1. It was confirmed for me (in also reflecting on my personal experience) that, other than victims/survivors themselves, the practitioners in various helping fields seriously need the information that HG provides here.
2. If you want true comedic relief from the weighty topic of Narcississm; come to narcsite.com as well!
This last observation was due to the interviewers, in their commentary preceeding one guest interviwee, building up the conversation (but at the same time giving a trigger warning) saying that the guest was sooo funny – and then they kind of apologized and, essentially, conveyed that these are 3 practioners, after years of practicing, who can joke about the topic as a result and that some recently victimized ppl might be too sensitive to go there just yet…(In my head I was thinking; yay, some levity!)
And then I was listening…and waiting…and listening…thinking where’s the humour? Where’s the hilarity?
I gave up at the half-way point thinking; ‘Pfffft. I know where there are some truely fucking funny people!’ …and took myself off to Narcsite.com…
Nice observations. I came to the conclusion with how limited the time was and their technical issues, with the list of speakers, I can Google them if I want and learn more thru their individual sites than I would prob gain in their interview.
Whocares
I agree. Humor is very important in both healing and in not taking ourselves too seriously. And while I realize that some narcs are evil, most are just people with a personality disorder that keeps them from understanding how others feel. Most of the narcs I know really believe others are the same as themselves. Only we pretend to care and pretend to feel. Most narcs are not malignant and really believe they are good people – and often are good people in many ways! Demonizing all narcs is not the way to real understanding.
I agree with your comment here Windstorm.
I think the subject of narcissism automatically creates defensiveness and anger in people and I can totally understand why that’s the case. It’s totally understandable that people feel that way, particularly when they first discover the truth and realise they’ve been manipulated and that they wasted a lot of time and energy on an illusion.
As time passes and people learn how to deal with their own emotional thinking and “seize the power” that knowledge and self-protection give, they start to feel less defensive and less “triggered”.
This doesn’t mean that people should come to think of narcissists as being harmless by any means. However, it means people can start to see them as human beings with a set of behaviours rather than as “demonic”.
I think one of the reasons we learn about narcissists is to try to understand why they are the way they are. From what I’ve read in many places, there is still so much fear and loathing that the fear overtakes the potential or willingness for understanding.
Change moves slowly. I believe the stereotypical and extreme cases of psychopaths and sociopaths seen in the movies and in mainstream media means that it will probably take years before people can talk openly about them without feeling like they are talking about murderers or criminals.
It is my 2 cents…
1. The “repelling” intro.
2. The Sam’s exclusion, considering his very good public work, was, at first glance, strange.
3. The organisators’ nervousness in general was pretty obvious.
That means, that WNAAD is under pressure now.
It is rule of a Nature – if we have a force, we always have an anti-force. And if you don’t see that anti-force, look closer.
It seems, that an anti-force has started to manifest itself.
Someone (victims? offended readers?), definitely, started to pressure WNAAD to prevent the Narcissists speak. I even can “hear” their voices – “You (WNAAD) help to those disgusting Narcissists to make their money! You are the abusers’ enablers and collaborators! You give them opportunity to ensnare and abuse other victims!”. Perhaps, they even threaten WNAAD with some legal consequences… Anyway, something is going on behind the scenes and it is a natural process. It is an anti-force. And we have to admit and respect (!) it.
Anyway, continue to do what you are doing, Tudor. No matter what. Teach, educate and empower people. You do a very good and very important job. You are on the right path.
I don’t have much time to read the blog (actually, it was my friend, who reads the blog on a constant basis and he directed my attention to this topic, expressing his indignation, becase he thinks, that it is not wise to “shut up” Narcissists, especially if they are willing to talk (I’m with you on that subject, V. *winks*), but, using this opportunity, I want to say that I’m glad to see all of you here, my dear fellow girls. And as I can see, you all are doing well. I’m glad. Be healthy and be well, my dears.
Thank you NoName. I hope you stay healthy and well too. I always enjoy your comments. You speak with a calm and accepting peace. Thank you for your open-minded and positive views 🙂
PS MB
Ass also means donkey in British English and is spelt that way but a persons bottom is spelt arse. Ass is derived from the Latin Italian assino, which means…..wait for it…… ass….. or donkey. I was so irritated with the fawning in the comments that I spat the previous comment out prematurely. I stopped reading the comments. The regular misspelling of arse is a bugbear of mine….as is gaol (UK) jail (US)….and many other misspellings made by non US English writers… this is not the time or place for such things
Thank you TT. I’m in the US and we don’t use arse to differentiate. They are all asses. We also omit the “u” in favorite, humor and other such words as you know.
As far as going off topic, it happens frequently here and IMO gives us a bit of a comic break from the serious nature of narcissistic abuse. Maybe not all will agree, but I enjoy the levity that finds its way into conversations here sometimes. As a whole, there is much more learning that goes on than goofing around.
Nah MB
Your southern drawl would have me wrapped around your little finger.
One of my fave movies is midnight in the garden of good and evil.
And one of my fave books is also set in the south
To kill a mockingbird
That’s nice of you to say. Thank you. I can tell you have good taste 🙂
MB
It’s arse and not ass in British English
I hate the US spelling of aluminum instead of aluminium.
Catherine
Language and it’s evolution is interesting even within the same countries. Not just spelling, but dialect. I’m from the southern US and have quite the country drawl. Y’all would go berserk hearing my pronunciations! HGs heard me. The two of us conversing…entertaining to say the least.
Why were you called “matrinarc” before in your earlier posts HG?
And why do you call your mother by that name?
If you get me….I am confused?! You can all lol on my behalf if you wish….
I listened to the interview, only yours because was not interested in rest. The two women got on my nerves….they kept interrupting you!
When they gave the warning I was like: “cool…HG gonna give them some of the greater narc in their faces…..”
Btw I don’t think you sound like Darth Vader , maybe a bit of Hugh Grant!
I wasn’t.
Michelle
You did yourself a great disservice by not listening to others… though I suspect your feelings for Mr Tudor are perhaps blinding you to other information….
M.
It is malignnarc not matrinarc.
Each word is spelt differently.
Wow, ok I have just listened to the interview twice ! Just to try and understand the reasoning for why a “Licenced psychotherapist” would record an introduction to an interview, after the interview has taken place, with such suggestive language and content, and to go to such depths.
It felt more like a projection of their discomfort, and an excuse to reiterate their own agenda.
The five senses grounding is a great tool, but they sent this in the email you get when you sign up.. why go over it again!
Also the majority of people who live with CPTSD know what triggers them, and know what they feel. It’s usually incredibly specific to their experiences.
They know this very well and will often avoid anything that will cause this kind of fear.
The suggestive nature of the introduction, will prevent people who do not know of HG’s works from listening to the interview.
It makes absolutely no sense to me, and I believe that they have done a massive disservice to the people who are trying to make sense of their situation.
I know this sounds very critical of me, but it has really fired me up ( no shit Sherlock) !
The most fundamental truth is to “know the Perspective of the narcissist, you need to ask a narcissist” (clearly not the one in your situation), otherwise you will continue to project your own perspective and get caught in a hamster wheel..
Because our perspectives are polar opposite, we would not be able to comprehend this alternative perspective without resources such as this.
I also have to say that in this interview HG managed to summarise the most important and relevant information, for people who might be new to his work.
GOSO, fuel matrix’s, fury and how this presents. The complexity of understanding that you can never predict or influence the actions of a narcissist in the way YOU want them to be.
The depiction of narcissism as a condition, a defence mechanism is essential in people’s understanding to move forward. The knowledge that narcissists can not form attachments.
A very poignant statement for me was “the lies that are being told are our truth” the pause following this statement made it incredibly effective.
The analogy using the perspective of colours ( amazing).
The analogy of the car suspension and how narcissism is the same as this mechanism, ensuring a smooth ride by twisting and adjusting to ensure control (amazing).
But the clearest and most important message continued in the theme of perspective, the need for the person to utilise a different perspective to secure a win in a different way.
This can only come through cognitively understanding the narcissist perspective. That can only happen through sources like narcsite.
Ok rant over, but if I had a goat that Woman would have got it!
Luckily I only have a cat.
Hi HG,
I think that not even a 10 seconds introduction was needed.
They knew the contents of your interview in advance since it was pre-recorded and there is absolutely nothing triggering in what you said.
If they knew the contents in advance and thought it would be triggering in some way, then it means that they do not have really understood the value of the information provided.
What is that they might find triggering if it was a clear,
logical and rational analysis of the dynamics narcissist -empath? And furthermore providing the keys for the ones entangled with a narcissist to move forward and be free?
What is they may find triggering when you explain thoroughly and analytically (without victimising anyone ) unique concepts such as?:
1. The first rule of empowerment : No Contact
Introducing the crucial term of Legitimate Exception for breeching no contact v.s. emotional thinking.
How no contact gives time for sinking in understanding and knowledge.
2. Why we can’t expect/ make the narcissist to do as we want was very clearly explained depending on external factors to us such as:
-the narcissist’s need of asserting control ( as part of how they are wired ) in order not to feel weak
-what is happening on the fuel matrix/status of the FM
-how the lines of defense are triggered when this control is challenged (deny,deflect,blame-shifting,gaslighting)
3. A very clear explanation of the process of “shifting”:
“ We are always twisting and adjusting to assert control again”. Explaining the shifts black-white.
– very clearly explained (as a conclusion )that whatever we do when we experience these shifts ( even compassion or apologising) it might be fuel or not depending on the external factors you described.
4. Very clear explanation of how shame is connected to fury.
“ Shame is embodied in the fury”. “Wounding reflects a deep seated shame that we try to fight back”. “Shame of being reminded that we are weak”. A defense mechanism.
Very cleared explained how the fury manifests:cold/hot
5. Very clearly explained the differences between :
positive fuel/negative fuel ( when control is challenged)/ wounding
6. Very clear explanation of why :
-the ones that are aware are not motivated of changing
-why therapies are not helpful
7. The concept of winning : your advice of defining /designing our own battles. The best way of winning the battle with a narcissist is not engaging in a battle at all.
8. How the nagging void/emptiness is felt by some schools ( low functioning with weak matrices) as opposed to high functioning narcissists.
9.How emotional thinking plays a huge obstacle in moving forward. ( something that has manifested itself during some interactions with your bloggers ) : what hinders many of them to fully understand the knowledge given is that they are still filled up with emotional thinking that does not give any place for understanding and knowledge to “sink” in. Making them go round and round breeching no contact. Being your main advice to control that emotional thinking as the first step in moving forward.
I did not find ANYTHING triggering with this!
Quite the contrary: all the information given was in favour to the person entangled with a narcissist advising them and giving them the keys of knowing how to move forward.
The only thing that was triggering was the 10 minutes introduction!
I think it will unfortunately take some time for some to really understand the invaluable information you are providing: the only information that can ultimately lead to the other side of the fence: moving forward and protecting.
Thank you SuperXena. I can see the need to say “this may trigger” purely because of an arse-covering exercise because there would be bound to be a handful of people who would cry “I was triggered by him but there was no warning” – holy shitballs, you are at a narcissistic abuse forum and about to listen to a narcissist, what are you expecting – how to prune your rose bush with H G ‘Capability Brown’ Tudor (and no diving in NarcAngel I meant the flower!) As someone else pointed out people really ought to know what they are dealing with and a short message stating that the information is of serious usefulness and very much worth listening to, but some people may find it triggering. It’s hardly as if I was sat with a brandy trotting out war stories about my malign behaviours. The hosts did very well organising the whole ‘day’ but it does seem that ten minutes’ warning was somewhat unnecessary. Perhaps something I will raise with them next year.
HG,
If the introduction had been given in such terms as you stated: “a short message stating that the information is of serious usefulness and very much worth listening to, but some people may find it triggering” it would have been different.
The introduction as it was presented was biased reinforcing the fact that if it comes from a narcissist so you better watch out. That triggers immediately the emotional thinking of the listener and diminishes the ability of listening to the information given as it is :an analytical description.
The simple act of warning puts the listener on guard and filters the information through emotions.
Concerning the organisation, they had very heavy technical problems: invalid passwords, invalid links etc. and they still have technical issues that made people disappointed because it is not possible to listen to the interviews in some platforms and they even omitted at the last minute some speakers.
I upgraded (paid) to Premium Pass and I still have not received a pass word, a link or any other information or the special bonus included on the upgrade .That I call not being organised.
Yes, I agree with you. Next time you should take this up with the organisers.
Any how..your interview was excellent.
Holy shitballs HG! I’ll get the brandy, cue malign rose bush pruning video.
I do have a question re donkeys/mules in the UK. Is it an arse or an ass?
His landscaping work at stourhead is stunning, one of my favourite places.. I would highly recomend anyone who would like to see Lancelot brown’s artistry, to visit stourhead, it’s beautiful.
Wise move to do that for next year, HG. I was on vacation and carved out time to listen to your interview within the 3 day window. Had I not known who you were, and given I had limited time, that warning was offputting enough it could deter people from listening. Like SuperXena explained, all of your material is resourceful information for a victim to benefit from. Yes, maybe hearing about black and white thinking could trigger a memory of an event with a Narc causing upset. But, couldn’t that seriously happen in several of the other interviews then? The warning should be given in their intro for kickstarting the day with all interviews. Not isolated to yours.
Sometimes those two ladies come across as enjoying the sound of their own voices too much. I can totally see a SNL skit evolving in the likes of the Delicious Dish radio show with a pop in from Alec Baldwin to talk about his “Schweddy Balls”.
Thanks Clarece, it is interesting to read all of the feedback.
OMG, Clarece,
I had the same thought about the SNL skit and I don’t know how to do the link, but I looked it up (no kidding) three hours before reading your comment.
If people go to YouTube and search for “SNL Salty Balls Alec Baldwin”, it can be seen. Hilarious! That is what I thought of when listening to HG’s interview, but those women were more ridiculous than SNL’s actresses!
I know, right?!?!?! Bree and Athena don’t hold nearly the finesse of the Delicious Dish gals. Lol
Again, this is not at all intended to make light or impune HG’s content or interview which was on point and excellent.
There is just something “overbearing” about those ladies.
With all the technical difficulties they experienced with listeners trying to access the interviews, they should extend the time for at least a week. Part of the problem was massive amount of people trying to race and hear all interviews in that 3 day window. It seems much more about profiting this year rather than awareness and educating.
BEST SKIT EVER…….LOL
Oh man.. good to see someone has some sense
Your fans and their comments are starting to detract from this blog
We just call them donkeys too MB, but to differentiate it would be an ass for donkey.
Arse would be referring to your bottom… well not yours but you know what I mean!
Thank you for answering Quasi. I truly was curious. And yes, I do in fact have a bottom. I do not have an ass in the pasture however!
No problem MB, I don’t mind answering.. ( as you can tell. ..lol) like you say it’s quite nice to have a bit of random light hearted banter in the midst of the heavy stuff!
My lovely clarece,
What is going on here and how is it that i missed an interview?! I tried to listen but it is not accessible any more unless i sign up for one year membership. I will try another link. I need to listen. I want to listen! Then i can cue in on this exciting discussion!
Hello Jenna! You’re always a ray of sunshine here! Where have you been hiding? Lol
The WNAAD interview was only available to listen for 3 days, plus the organizers had tons of technical issues with basically crashing the internet (all the traffic to hear HG, no doubt). Some could never log on to even hear.
I was on vacation in Disney World and woke up one morning at 5:00 am to listen to HG. Who the hell does that on vacation.
That is devotion. Lol
Clarece,
5am? That is devotion! At least you were not up at 5am WITH hg, being the subject of a scrapbook! I believe he mentioned the scrapbook recently. How many additional ‘members’ since we all last discussed it on the blog hg? Lol
Thank you clarece for your kind words. I have been away from narcs, so not as regular on the blog, but I miss everyone so much that I can never stay away for too long!
As you stated, the interview must have only been available for a short time, because the other link did not work either. I hope I can hear it sometime soon. I hate missing an interview and a great discussion on the blog! This place is more exciting than tv or movies!!
I hope your memories of narc are fading more and more with each passing day. For me they definitely are. I never thought this day would come but due to all the healing here, it has!!
Now that would be interesting Jenna…what could happen at 5 a.m. WITH HG? lol
Clarece
My guess is you’d be observing him just returning home.
You’re such a hoot, NA!
He’s rolling in with a Tom cat swagger and his hair tousled…
Narcangel,
Hg ‘just returning home’ lol! How could I forget?!😂
Clarece,
Lol!
Damn girl! That is serious devotion! 🙂
Superxena ! Your amazing, and have articulated everything that I thought in the best way. I love everything you have had to say here !
Thank you Quasi and thank you for the information regarding landscape architect Lancelot Brown .
I did not know about ( Lancelot) Capability Brown’ s history before and your comment awakened my curiosity.
I looked for some information about him and saw amazing images of ten beautiful Capability Brown landscapes.
Chatsworth looks also amazing!
Quite impressive and worth exploring on my next visit to the UK.
Thank you for sharing!
Chatsworth is impressive, well worth a visit. Don’t tread on my grass whilst there though.
Yes, very impressive. Harewood House and Stowe look amazing as well.
No, HG. Of course not . I can assure you that that will never happen!
Superxena
Well said.
Thank you Twilight!
Thank you Twilight!!
I just listened and really appreciated the emphasis on GOSO, “once you know, go”! This saved my sanity almost two years ago. I’ve been no contact for 21 months and left 23 months ago. Your books helped me more than anything else. Most therapists do not know this information though it is getting better and better out there from what I’m witnessing, as a trauma-informed DBT therapist.
I appreciated the emphasis on seeing through different lenses to understand that narcissists see the world differently that from an empath. We all have unique lenses and need to shift view perspective to understand that narcissist logic is not empath or typical or other people’s view of logic. Even “logic” is not uniform as well all have different brains and senses.
And I also like the point that no one can change anyone’s behavior but themselves. We can not control anyone but ourselves. Don’t bother, it’s futile. This is a well known 12 step lesson and in DBT as well. Focus on changing ones own thoughts and behaviors as that is all you CAN control.
Now, the therapist in me thought the trigger warning stuff would have been a good one for an introduction separate, prior to all the talks. One never knows what will trigger a person, so I did appreciate that. I also appreciated the grounding technique, the ice technique she went over as this is a DBT crisis survival skill that is taught and many people need to learn how to ground when emotionally dysregulated anyway. I think I know why they did this. So, I did not think it was nonsense given the high numbers of C-PTSD after narcissism abuse and the value of grounding. My two cents there.
I do have a question HG. At the very end of the talk, you advise those that want to play the “game” with their rich narcissistic parents, to not bother and wait until they are passed on to reap the rewards of the will. I agree with this advice to not engage with narcissistic parents though the latter part struck me. What are you doing with you mother, aren’t you playing the game to get pay out by attending therapy so you get your inheritance? Or is this different because you are a greater narc and not an empath or a “typical”? Do you purposely limit your times you talk with matrinarc to minimize the exposure to her toxic ways?
Indeed I am Indy but as you identify, I can play the game because it does not impact on me adversely as I am a narcissist – an empath should not play the game. I minimise my exposure not because of the impact she has on me, but rather to avoid giving her any fuel.
But it did affect you adversely HG. Here we sit. She is the one person you worked endlessly to get her approval to no avail.
That was then Clarece, this is now.
True, yet she is at the heart of your Grand Design, no matter the benefit to your legacy, that appears to be your driving force. So one perspective would be she is still winning over you.
Hardly.
Hmmmm….I understand you will have the final win with whatever your plan ultimately is. And it will be most likely be the motherlode kill of all wins. From the outside to me, it also looks like your one blind spot. Because of who she is and what she has done.
So when I win, how is that a blind spot?
Why do you need this win when you advise to us GOSO?
Because you are not me. You have to GOSO, I do not because I am something you are not.
This is my question I was getting at too! Thank you Clarece!
HG,
is this just because you are unique or would you say all narcissists do not have to GOSO when engaged with a harmful abuser type (ie. narcissist, sociopath, etc)???
It is for the empath, not the narcissist because the narcissist is not impacted in the way that you are. I am not at risk of being ensnared by emotional thinking so I can engage if I wish to (although largely I do not because I have better things to do and I do not wish to fuel her).
Thank you, HG.
I still wonder about this as it seems to portray invincibility in the narcissist.
So, wounding is possible tho. Anger is an emotion. Fury is a form of anger, albeit how you describe it an unhealthy version that I think you said others do not experience. Hmmmm I need to pick up Fury me thinks to be able to ask further.
Yes anger is an emotion which is actually healthy as explained in Fury, but fury goes beyond this which is the consequence of the nature of wounding which is far more deep-seated and impacting than hurt.
Agreed, HG, no argument there. Anger is a natural emotion that is part of the emotional spectrum of the basic emotions and then we have nuances of these basic emotions.
I do follow that you describe fury as different and more likely felt by those with NPD and sociopathy (perhaps even others like BPD, etc) and yet, we all colloquially use the term “fury” to describe intense anger in the general public…ie “I am furious that I didn’t get a raise” could be said by anyone. However, the fury you describe is far different.
After your mention of American Psycho yesterday, I looked at clips of the movie and saw a clip that made me think of your version of “Fury”…well, a couple of clips.
One was the look on Patric’s face during the business card brag sessions and his internal dialog…perhaps a cold fury moment?
Then the moment with the Axe during Huey Lewis song, when he hacks him up while talking about reservations to Doria…This intense rage that is white fire and not in line with circumstances/events.
Are those two decent examples of fury, HG?
During the business card scene, Bateman is wounded by the favour shown towards a different card and his fury is igniting but he keeps it under control by deflecting and asking to see Paul Allen’s card.
When Bateman hacks Paul Allen to death, this is the unleashing of fury which has been held in check from previously. There was no wounding in that moment because the murder is pre-meditated. Bateman was wounded earlier by Allen, kept the fury in check and then decided to unleash it at a later juncture.
We are totally on the same wave length today Indy! lol
She keeps the hatred alive in you.
I do that well enough myself thank you.
I don’t doubt it but the seed was planted by her. It’s like a 2-for-1 deal there.
Clarece
Are you getting a feel for how the interview might go down?
Oh I ping ponged an answer right back to him that he is moderating. Lol
If a reader’s interview should take place, I’ll hold my own and make him look good too.
Hmmmmm….I still think a narcissist (in general) can be hurt by another narcissist and the repetitive wounding could bring up long lost memories of past abuses and pains. I hear what you are saying Clarece (as that was what my point was getting at, thanks for clarifying further 🙂 and I also hear you, HG.
Are you saying that you have reached a point of No Impact, HG? Did your experience with Matrinarc influence your writing on how to get to the point of No Impact?
I am wounded, as explained, Indy, but I do not equate that as being hurt. I see those as two different responses.
From your perspective HG, how do you differentiate “wounding” from being “hurt”? Does one have a lesser effect, as in you bounce back quicker from being “wounded” vs “hurt”?
Does wounding equate more as being criticized and hurting is more of a flat out rejection or shaming?
I do not get hurt so it is not relevant. Wounding is explained in Fury.
HG
Do you see hurt in the physical aspect and wounding in the emotional?
One might be physically injured, but I understood the discussion was based around emotional hurt and emotional wounding, Twilight.
It sounds like a question of semantics, HG. From my perspective it seems like narcissistic wounding is how we would say you get hurt. One would think by the definition of the words that “wounding” would result in “hurt.” Another example of the imprecision of English in accurately relating a thought?
Hurt is too light a word. Wounding is more accurate.
Ah!!Now I am getting confused HG….
1. Are we talking about the depth of the feeling?
In that case then I agree with Windstorm that it is a matter of semantics because whatever you feel when you are wounded ( call it wound or hurt as we call it) I can say that is the same depth of what you feel as we do.Oh, yes, when it hurts ,it hurts deeply. It is as deep wound as your “wound”
2. Are we talking about what you “feel “ when wounded ?( not sadness , grief ,sorrow, melancholy as we may experience since you do not have those feelings as we do) Or better put what you avoid to feel! Then therein lies the difference in what you feel and how and why you canalise it . As I understand it, when you are wounded it evokes a deep ,deep-rooted feeling of shame that you want to fight back by canalising it in fury as a defence mechanism to not feeling that well known feeling of shame, of being weak again.
What are we talking about: the depth or the nature of the feeling itself?
Bingo. That was the difference I was trying to determine from your perspective. How much more damaging a “wounding” is vs being hurt. Whereas, like Windstorm explained, some of us can use “hurt” or “wounding” interchangeably because we associate them equally.
Excuse me for wading in, but this conversation is fascinating and quite revealing too in some ways.
To me it reveals the narcissist’s tendency for being grandiose and their black and white thinking. They are “special” and their experiences are somehow “superior” to the experiences of other people.
Narcissists and empaths are at either end of the same spectrum, but the narcissist’s end of the spectrum is elevated up into the ether where they sit with Gods, while the empath’s end of the spectrum is down on the ground with the rest of the humans 😉
HG
I apologise for not being clear with my thoughts, I knew you understood it as that.
We usually can not separate physical pain from emotional or maybe I should say we associate emotional with physical due to feeing rejection of our needs which then attaches an emotion to it.
You were taught showing this emotional need as a weakness so you learned to separate it, yet in doing so it changes and was driven deeper into your core which now is felt as shame because it is seen as a weakness and not as a moment when bonding between two people happens. So when you “feel” this emotions it is a trigger and instead of seeing it for what it actually is you react and that is to bury it deeper, rage is the product of a pain so deep it is almost not reconisable to the original wound created long ago and is the band aid that covers it.
Maybe I am wrong, yet what I feel under the rage is pain.
Thank you. I am connecting all of that.
Hi HG,
So, could you explain to me the difference? I see both as the same and I believe you that for you they may be different experiences. I never differentiated the two. Is one fuel related and the other more emotional based?
I just do not feel hurt – it is wounding, that is deeper than hurt.
Thank you for your response, HG.
So, is wounding more focused on injury to your sense of identity? I say this while simultaneously being aware that it is believed that those diagnosed with NPD have a reduced sense of a constant “self” identity, that it is more fluid in nature. So, is this where the wounding resides?
Also, you say you are not “hurt” and I would have to trust you on this as it is your experience and not my own. I do wonder if this is the case only for sociopathic narcissists. Wouldn’t mid rangers feel “hurt” and actually play into this as playing the role of “victim”.
Now, speaking from personal experience, when I am hurt I feel a sense of loss and sadness. Sometimes hurt leads to anger. Sometimes hurt leads to fear. Depending of course on the context.
I do wonder the function of why some individuals have a reduced emotional spectrum and others perhaps have an expanded spectrum of emotions. My guess it is for survival and the nature of nature(variability). Both a function of genetic predisposition paired with specific circumstances.
I do know that in DBT we discuss emotions from an evolutionary perspective. Anger is useful as it provided protection by fighting off predators and moving obstacles when one’s goals are blocked. Sadness is useful as it help forge tribal connections and let us know when we are exp loss. Fear, of course, is useful in that it triggers flight/fight/freeze actions like running away from dangerous animals and situations. Guilt, again, help build relationships by encouraging reparations when you know you harmed or “hurt” someone. Shame, again, is a tribal minded emotion. When one feels bad about one’s sense of self, you hide this and thus show conformity to the tribe and not get kicked out. Thus increasing the chances of survival. There is no such thing as a “bad” or “good” emotion. They just exist and have helped us survive. As, I imagine, you have developed your limited emotional spectrum for the same reason. To survive trauma and chaos. To provide a balance in the universe (yin and yang).
Hurt resides in all these places. Perhaps more nuanced than the basic senses of fear, sadness and anger. So, how about the feeling of being “wounded”? where does this fit? And fury? I hypothesize/suspect in the extremes of sadness and anger.
Hi Indy,
Nice to see you are back.
I thought first as you do about the narcissist being hurt. I am better grasping now what the narcissist wound is.
It is not the same hurt as people with empathy experience because those with empathy have the ability of attaching. The hurting is caused and related to others we have bond with.
The Narcissist does not have the ability of bonding/attaching.
The wounding reflects a deep-rooted feeling of shame that can be triggered by someone but since they are not attached that feeling is not related to someone else but just to themselves. It is a trigger that reminds them of the feelings of shame of never have been good enough, unimportant etc. that they try to fight back.
If you listen to the interview on WNAAD it is clearly explained how shame is connected to fury. It has helped me to grasp more about the narcissist wounding as opposed to an empath being hurt.
If I remember correctly HG states:
“ Shame is embodied in the fury”. “Wounding reflects a deep seated shame that we try to fight back”. “Shame of being reminded that we are weak”. A defense mechanism.
The interview explains more in detail how the fury manifests as cold or hot.
Not very easy to grasp, but I hope it helps.
Best wishes!
Hi SX,
So nice to see you again too! I hope you are doing well, I always enjoyed our past conversations.
I do understand the experience is different between someone with NPD and others of broader emotional experience spectrums. This I do not debate. The use of the two words differently (hurt vs wound) is what tripped me up. I will use the appropriate wording, as it will help clarify my question better.
Back to original question: Because I also hold that NPD and BPD both result often by a combination of traumas over time in early development in addition to genetic predisposition, I am speaking from a trauma informed view.
So, if an adult narcissist that has a trauma history continues exposure to source of trauma (narcissist parent or sociopath) this,( I hypothesize as I do not definitely know), may cause deepened “injury”/trauma. Specifically, if HG keeps interacting in games with his childhood abuser (matrinarc) he possibly risks continued deepening of the traumatic scars. These scars are like neuro-paths in the brain that, when continued to be reactivated, the paths strengthen. When activated, the body changes biochemically. Based on trauma theory, this can lead to all sorts of illnesses, etc. However, when one goes no contact, we form new neuropaths in the brain that are not related to trauma and the trauma pathways start “growing weeds”, the paths weaken and thus less traumatizing. (All are hypotheses of course)
So, I wonder if HG feels he is not impacted by the times he engages with his mother because he has done some work on past traumas orrr he is in No Impact land….the book I want to read when he publishes it! Or he feels he is invincible. Or something else.
Lest we forget, narcissists are humans. They can be traumatized. If not, please donate your brain to science, HG!
You ARE human, right HG? (Teasing, meant in good spirit)
Last time I looked, yes.
Hopefully you know I was joking, HG. Not sure with this response. I’m sorry if it was offensive.
Do you have any thoughts on my note above on the strengthing of the trauma response by continued contact with abusers, even by narcissists (in general)?
Yes, I know you were joking Indy.
Good, phew. I did not wish to anger the man that did so much for me.
About my question?
Hi HG,
I am confused and trying to work all of this out, still on the path of learning (probably for the rest of my life), and hoping you can help explain two concepts that are on my mind.
The first is “Empath Hurt” vs. “Narcissist Wound”. The second is “Empath Bond” vs. “Narcissist Bound”. I think that there are subtle differences between these. I have felt both hurt and deeply wounded by people who have been abusive to me. So, Narcissists only feel wounded and not hurt? But an Empath feels both?
The “Bond” and “Bound” concepts were brought up in a comment (perhaps on another of your posts?). I feel bonded to people and believed that it was reciprocated – but not by everyone. I also feel that both Empaths and Narcissists are bound to each other, because we need each other (am I wrong?). So, I feel both bonded and bound. And a Narcissist only feels that he has bound the person to him (power and control?), but that he is not bonded and / or bound to the Empath? Then why hoover? Why need their fuel?
Also, I am still really struggling with who is a Narcissist and who is just narcissistic.
I am confused about these things, but still, it is obvious to me that all of us, regardless where on the spectrum we lie are all just people with the natural instinct for survival and we need each other.
Hello Indy,
Thank you for your extensive response.
I do understand the dynamics of trauma bonding as you thoroughly explained here. I do understand as well what you are saying that a continued interaction with the abuser has some impact ( the narcissists are after all humans ) on the person interacting with him/her being a narcissist or not.
That is clear to me.
The thing I was trying the underline is the different impact this interaction has on a narcissist and a non-narcissist .
I was trying to differentiate from my own understanding that the narcissist does not feel wounded the same way we do.
This wounding does not evoke i.ex. sadness or grief ( they do not have those feelings in them )as it does to us ( at least related to what I feel when I get hurt by someone who is near me) .
It seems ( and as far I understand) that wounding in them evokes the feeling of shame that is expressed as fury.
When I get hurt by someone that I care for I do not really feel shame.Do you?
We perceive wounding/hurt differently from the narcissist.
But then again this is my understanding: maybe wrong or right.
The only one that can answer to this question of how it “feels” to be wounded is HG. So it is better to address this question directly to him….or we can all go back and read Fury again.
Best wishes
Hi SuperXena and HG,
We are on the same page, SX, no worries. I tend to get a bit wordy and I hope I didn’t come across as abrasive, as it is hard to communicate tone in this form. I am more thinking outloud. What you said, SX, “The thing I was trying the underline is the different impact this interaction has on a narcissist and a non-narcissist .” Yes, you and I are in total agreement here. I think perhaps we have the same perspective, just I may have worded it inappropriately. I also was trying to direct some of my commentary directly to HG actually, though perhaps I was not clear as I did not address him.
Indeed we all feel hurt in different ways just by being different people with different backgrounds, biological make up and potentially trauma histories and diagnoses as well (depression, personality disorders, anorexia/eating disorders, anxiety, bipolar, CPTSD etc). I think it is not just narcissists vs others emotional exp. I think it varies alot more, with emotional pallets varying more from other groups and even by individuals too. And, because HG and the narcissist community use the term wounding to describe the deep intense pain/shame that converts to fury quickly, I will do my best to stick to that word here.
Now, I follow you, SX, that Narcissist do not reportedly have certain feelings that others “typically” have. Though I do posit that this spectrum of feelings varies far more than is believed, even perhaps individual to individual. Even within the group of narcissists as a whole.
Some narcissists claim they feel moments of sadness that is not related to other people, but more for themselves and their pasts. HG may not have this experience at all or may have locked it up. I do not know. HG, I know you have said you think those narcissists that claim the experience of sadness are really seeking pity from others. I wonder if both ideas are possible. I do agree on the restricted range of emotions in general in NPD, I just think it varies some. As someone that is a “depressive” by development(in remission thankfully), I experience levels of sadness, grief and other related emotions that I think non-depressives do not reach or even comprehend…even while in remission. So, I think this is very individual.
And yes, as you said SX, the narcissist (by their own reports) feels shame far more often and reportedly at different times and likely in a different manner than say I do (I can only speak for my own experience)
Though to answer your question, SX, about shame and my personal experience… I feel shame at times that others may not as well and I do not believe I am a narcissist (though I am open to debate on this-ha,ha). For example, when I am criticized for certain things (my weak spots in my make up that are private), I do go back to a shame response at times though it does not convert to fury. For some people, shame may come from being criticized or hurt by someone they care for indeed (or feeling they are criticized) for differing level of success, education, weight, appearance, etc. Is it healthy, no. Do non-narcissists experience it? Yep.
I know, I rambled a bit, as I am also thinking out loud. I am sorry for that. Just know, everything I write is in flux for me as I learn too. I appreciate your feedback and any challenges, truly 🙂
I will revisit Fury, as it has been a while. I also keep in mind that this is HG’s account of his personal experience as an elite narcissist.
Indy,
No need to explain yourself for sharing your understanding. You are entitled to do so as the rest of us. On the contrary I find these interactions challenging .
And now to the spectrum of feelings :
1. Shame.
I never said I do not feel shame. Of course I do but not under the same circumstances as you do (as you explained). I feel shame i.ex. when I hurt someone that I care for.
For me the feeling of shame as a consequence of someone hurting me ( due i.ex. to criticism ,) is very alien to me ( Perhaps I should donate my brain as well !) .
2. Agreed: what a person feels ( or does not feel) regardless of the label you give( narcissist,codependent,empath,normal etc.) is very individual and depends (as far as I have studied and read) on both genetic factors and pattern of learned behaviours( during mainly childhood) that determine the ” essence ” of a person.
Of main importance to be mentioned people that are raised in less than ideal childhood conditions( emotional traumatic conditions – abuse) that present CPTSD feel more negative and unpleasant emotions.
Evidence of this is just precisely all the contributions of the bloggers here and of the articles and posts on this blog.
And this is exactly what explains the narc-empath dynamics.
3. Agreed. There is a wide spectrum of emotions. There are primary emotions that have in themselves underlying secondary and tertiary emotions.
What I call primary emotions are i.ex.: love,joy,surprise,anger,sadness,fear.
If we take for instance sadness , one person may experience suffering, hurt while another experiences guilt,abandoned,despair,depressed,lonely ,shame etc.
If we take anger , some would feel irritation, exasperation while others feel rage,disgust,envy,torment etc.
And the list is long finding nuances to each primary emotion. So I better stop there!
What one feels and how one reacts to a specific circumstance depends on the patterns of behaviour( coping mechanisms) each one has acquired during childhood( together with genetic traits).
– is it healthy? If there are repeated negative emotions as a pattern of response that are eroding and self-destructive: no it is not healthy and may even lead to physical symptoms.
– can it be changed: yes, I do believe it could if it is possible to identify these negative emotions and find out how they were originated. This would be a long process, not an easy one and would require extreme work and self discipline but I think it is achievable.
4. As for what the narcissist feels or does not feel ( being a lesser, mid or greater following the classification given here) lies completely outside my knowledge because I am not a narcissist ( as I have been told, or am I?) .
I can imagine that some narcissists feel depressed or experience a certain feeling of sadness or any other emotions on the spectrum that other narcissists do not.
That is exactly one of the reasons why I am on this site: to acquire knowledge and understanding .And that is the reason why I continue reading and doing research on this field.
5.As a consequence of all the above being the premises different to each one and if you add to that a person with ASPD( i.ex. psychopathy) besides NPD then it is clear to me that the impact on that person interacting with another narcissist/psychopath is very different at the emotional level than others.
Since they lack completely of empathy ( psychopaths) they play the game without any problem( remorse, anguish etc.) of disengaging whenever suits him/her once the aims of engaging on the game are met.
I have not been on this site as long as you have but what still puzzles me is that we ( people in general) still expect others to feel and react as we do (under our own perspective).
It is hard perhaps to reach a level of understanding needed to accept the fact that there are people that do not feel as we do and do not think as we do , trying to force a situation that is never going to happen as they think it should /expect it to be (under their own perspective ) since the premises are completely different than their own perspective.
And I better stop here before this turns to be an essay…
“See “ you here!
Superxena
You weren’t talking to me, but it was on a topic close to my heart. Our endless inability to recognize that people don’t think like we do has often fascinated me. I don’t think empathy has any affect on this. Narcs, empaths and normals all seem to have this same blindness. I catch myself in this trap too.
That’s probably the root of why we get trapped in narc relationships. We just can’t believe they don’t feel, think like we do. And when we do realize it, being empaths, we tend to want to “fix” them to think like us – never really even considering that how we are and what we think and believe may not be what they would ever want.
Windstorm!
“The more the merrier “ ! Isn’t it what you use to say in English.?
Every time I write here I feel I am talking to everybody and that is the way it is since all comments are open!
I totally agree with you ! One of the many positive things this site has brought into my life is self analysis / introspection with the aim of gaining awareness to be able to adapt /change that that made me become entangled with a narcissist.
After all, I was the other part of the equation wasn’t I?
It takes two to tango!
And I also agree with you: narcissists are also blinded by this.
Hi SX,
I love your responses, as they challenge my thinking 🙂 I think we both share the same views here. Agreed on C-PTSD. This needs to have a lot of focus on not only for targets of narcissists but for the development of narcissists as well. Childhood is a vital contributing factor! Agreed 🙂
The only point I wanted to make on what you share above about Shame.
What you described above: “when I hurt someone that I care for”
This could be guilt and not shame. Though, I do not know precisely, you would have to fill me in. Let me explain a little bit on my view of shame…
As a therapist in DBT, we talk a lot about the difference and similarities between Shame and Guilt because those with emotional dysegulation like BPD (and others) often suffer from both intensely. Shame and Guilt are similar but very different emotions.
Guilt is when you feel bad about hurting someone or doing something you feel bad about. It is behavior focused and their is no self hatred. This is a healthy emotion and is related to empathy. When guilty you wish to make reparations.
Shame is different. It is feeling bad about who you are as a human being–it is identity based. So, for example, if someone comments on your appearance like “oh, you put on some weight”…this can cause shame (self hatred) in some people. This is not related to empathy and is usually not a healthy emotion. When feeling shamed, there is a drive to hide. Some people, like some with narcissism, this can lead to rage.
Does that make sense?
I feel like we could have coffee and chit-chat over these things. Do you like coffee? I love a rich Lattee with cinnamon —mmmmmm
Best and hope your day is going well.
Indy
Ha,ha Indy : ” I feel like we could have coffee and chit-chat over these things. Do you like coffee? ”
We certainly could! We can then start writing a book about : “ My narcsite.com journey”.
Nope , I am not a coffee type…I am more the Green tea type. But no problem you can have your coffee .
Re difference guilt and shame makes perfectly sense to me.
That is exactly where I am on my process of introspection after moving forward:
I call it the wheel of emotions to detect what unhealthy emotions are underlying some of my primary emotions.
As you said if the underlying emotion of sadness is shame it is not healthy. I am finding why is that(somewhere along my childhood)?
The same could be applied to anger as a primary healthy emotion.If there is a deeper underlying emotion that turns anger into fury there is a deep underlying wound experienced somewhere a long the way ( traumatic experiences/abuse as child).
It is interesting to see that there are unhealthy emotions/feelings as a result of how we were raised as children.
The narcissist is not exempt of these unhealthy emotions( as we have read on this site) and they are as vulnerable as we are with other unhealthy emotions.
How they ( the narcissists) and people in general cope with this depends on many many factors.
We can perhaps start writing a draft of the first book?
We keep up the challenge!
Adding: after writing all this about the wheel of feelings I do not know what I feel anymore or if I feel. I should go now for my Green Tea instead !
Best wishes
Indy,
No need to explain yourself for sharing your understanding. You are entitled to do so as the rest of us. On the contrary I find these interactions challenging .
And now to the spectrum of feelings :
1. Shame.
I never said I do not feel shame. Of course I do but not under the same circumstances as you do (as you explained). I feel shame i.ex. when I hurt someone that I care for.
For me the feeling of shame as a consequence of someone hurting me ( due i.ex. to criticism ,) is very alien to me ( Perhaps I should donate my brain as well !) .
2. Agreed: what a person feels ( or does not feel) regardless of the label you give( narcissist,codependent,empath,normal etc.) is very individual and depends (as far as I have studied and read) on both genetic factors and pattern of learned behaviours( during mainly childhood) that determine the ” essence ” of a person.
Of main importance to be mentioned people that are raised in less than ideal childhood conditions( emotional traumatic conditions – abuse) that present CPTSD feel more negative and unpleasant emotions.
Evidence of this is just precisely all the contributions of the bloggers here and of the articles and posts on this blog.
And this is exactly what explains the narc-empath dynamics.
3. Agreed. There is a wide spectrum of emotions. There are primary emotions that have in themselves underlying secondary and tertiary emotions.
What I call primary emotions are i.ex.: love,joy,surprise,anger,sadness,fear.
If we take for instance sadness , one person may experience suffering, hurt while another experiences guilt,abandoned,despair,depressed,lonely ,shame etc.
If we take anger , some would feel irritation, exasperation while others feel rage,disgust,envy,torment etc.
And the list is long finding nuances to each primary emotion. So I better stop there!
What one feels and how one reacts to a specific circumstance depends on the patterns of behaviour( coping mechanisms) each one has acquired during childhood( together with genetic traits).
– is it healthy? If there are repeated negative emotions as a pattern of response that are eroding and self-destructive: no it is not healthy and may even lead to physical symptoms.
– can it be changed: yes, I do believe it could if it is possible to identify these negative emotions and find out how they were originated. This would be a long process, not an easy one and would require extreme work and self discipline but I think it is achievable.
4. As for what the narcissist feels or does not feel ( being a lesser, mid or greater following the classification given here) lies completely outside my knowledge because I am not a narcissist ( as I have been told, or am I?) .
I can imagine that some narcissists feel depressed or experience a certain feeling of sadness or any other emotions on the spectrum that other narcissists do not.
That is exactly one of the reasons why I am on this site: to acquire knowledge and understanding .And that is the reason why I continue reading and doing research on this field.
5.As a consequence of all the above being the premises different to each one and if you add to that a person with ASPD( i.ex. psychopathy) besides NPD then it is clear to me that the impact on that person interacting with another narcissist/psychopath is very different at the emotional level than others.
Since they lack completely of empathy ( psychopaths) they play the game without any problem( remorse, anguish etc.) of disengaging whenever suits him/her once the aims of engaging on the game are met.
I have not been on this site as long as you have but what still puzzles me is that we ( people in general) still expect others to feel and react as we do (under our own perspective).
It is hard perhaps to reach a level of understanding needed to accept the fact that there are people that do not feel as we do and do not think as we do , trying to force a situation that is never going to happen as they think it should /expect it to be (under their own perspective ) since the premises are completely different than their own perspective.
And I better stop here before this turns to be an essay…
“See “ you here!
P.S. Indy, I have just noticed that you received my long comment in duplicate!
You may want to skip one of them…same contents.
Best wishes
Hi SuperXena,
I hope you don’t mind me jumping into your conversation!
The use of the word “shame” is interesting to me. I feel that if a Narcissist hurts someone and is exposed, then he / she should feel ashamed. He / she shouldn’t need someone to expose him / her to feel ashamed, though. He / she knows right from wrong and chooses to do wrong to someone who does not deserve it.
If they don’t do shameful things, then they do not need to feel shame – which I feel like is him / her hurting him / herself. (He feels ashamed of himself, so he doesn’t like himself??).
I know all of that he / she is annoying, just want to be sure that men are not blamed for all Narcissists – there are plenty of women out there, too – I have met them!!
Thoughts, anyone?? HG?
Hello Kate,
Not at all.It is always very enriching to hear other’s points of view when interacting with many.
I am not so sure though if I understood you correctly.
Are you interested on the topic of shame as related to the narcissist only or related to any other person as well?
I usually write in form of bullet list( I find more order with my thoughts that way).I hope you do not find it too cold and clinical.
1. From own experience and from what I have learned here:
The feeling of shame that the narcissist experiences is not due to what he /she does( harm, manipulate ,abuse ) others. That is one of the main differences compared to “us” who experience shame or guilt due to hurting someone i.ex.
The narcissist feels shame just because of not succeeding either with maintaining control and/or superiority . If you expose him, he would feel shame not for what he/she has done but because he/she did not succeed on maintaining the facade.
You can identify two different groups though:
– the ones that are aware of what is wrong or right( I think here you have the ones that have as well ASPD -sociopathy/psychopathy ).
They know the difference between wrong and right but they just do not care doing wrong because of their complete lack of empathy ,remorse or guilt.
They do whatever is necessary to succeed.
– the ones that are not aware of what is wrong or right and they believe that what they do ( abuse, harm etc) is “right” ( for them).
2.This shame is never expressed as such ( it is equated to weakness for them) but instead it is expressed as fury( cold or hot) as a defence mechanism .
I never saw my ex showing shame. Just Fury that now I know is the mask of deep-rooted shame and wounding.
Does this make sense?
In other words, yes, they “should “ feel shame as you pointed out as it would be expected from our perspective but unfortunately not under their perspective.
They feel shame for completely different reason than “we”do.
“I know all of that he / she is annoying, just want to be sure that men are not blamed for all Narcissists – there are plenty of women out there, too – I have met them!!”
Yes, I agree with you there are both female and male narcissists.
I hope this gives you my feedback ( from own experience and learning) about what you were wondering.
Hello Kate,
Not at all.It is always very enriching to hear other’s points of view when interacting with many.
I am not so sure though if I understood you correctly.
Are you interested on the topic of shame as related to the narcissist only or related to any other person as well?
I usually write in form of bullet list( I find more order with my thoughts that way).I hope you do not find it too cold and clinical.
1. From own experience and from what I have learned here:
The feeling of shame that the narcissist experiences is not due to what he /she does( harm, manipulate ,abuse ) others. That is one of the main differences compared to “us” who experience shame or guilt due to hurting someone i.ex.
The narcissist feels shame just because of not succeeding either with maintaining control and/or superiority . If you expose him, he would feel shame not for what he/she has done but because he/she did not succeed on maintaining the facade.
You can identify two different groups though:
– the ones that are aware of what is wrong or right( I think here you have the ones that have as well ASPD -sociopathy/psychopathy ).
They know the difference between wrong and right but they just do not care doing wrong because of their complete lack of empathy ,remorse or guilt.
They do whatever is necessary to succeed.
– the ones that are not aware of what is wrong or right and they believe that what they do ( abuse, harm etc) is “right” ( for them).
2.This shame is never expressed as such ( it is equated to weakness for them) but instead it is expressed as fury( cold or hot) as a defence mechanism .
I never saw my ex showing shame. Just Fury that now I know is the mask of deep-rooted shame and wounding.
Does this make sense?
In other words, yes, they “should “ feel shame as you pointed out as it would be expected from our perspective but unfortunately not under their perspective.
They feel shame for completely different reason than “we”do.
“I know all of that he / she is annoying, just want to be sure that men are not blamed for all Narcissists – there are plenty of women out there, too – I have met them!!”
Yes, I agree with you there are both female and male narcissists.
I hope this gives you my feedback ( from own experience and learning) about what you were wondering.
Superxena
For what it’s worth, I agree with your conclusions. It seems to me that the narcs I know all had a difficult childhood where they often felt powerless. Now as adults, they want to always feel in control and superior to those around them.
Whenever something happens that shows they are not in control, they respond with fury as a defense. It is a sort of shame, in that this loss of control brings back those buried shameful feelings from childhood. Their fury is their way of taking back control of the situation and showing their dominance over whoever (probably inadvertently) caused the wounding.
At least that’s my take on what I have learned. Whenever I trigger fury it’s always accidentally, but then when I analyze what I said or did, I can see how it would have wounded.
Windstorm,
Thank you for your feedback. Your comments are always worth reading and welcomed.
“Their fury is their way of taking back control of the situation and showing their dominance over whoever (probably inadvertently) caused the wounding.”
Agreed. I see it more like a defense mechanism by projecting and making feel others unimportant to avoid feeling it themselves.
As far as I know ( and doing some research) there are four (well known within psychology ) defensive strategies that develop out of our instinctive Fight, Flight, Freeze and Fawn responses to severe abandonment and trauma .
Differences in the childhood abuse/neglect (repeated ) pattern and genetic predisposition there is usually one of these responses that is dominant.
1. Fight : ”The Fight Type and the Narcissistic Defense. Fight ypes are unconsciously driven by the belief that power and control can create safety, assuage abandonment and secure love. ”
2.Flight: ”The Flight Type and the Obsessive-Compulsive Defense
”Flight types appear as if their starter button is stuck in the “on” position. They are obsessively and compulsively driven by the unconscious belief that perfection will make them safe and loveable. ” “These types are also as susceptible to stimulating substance addictions, as they are to their favorite process addictions: workaholism and busyholism. “
3. Freeze: ”The Freeze Type and the Dissociative Defense
Many freeze types unconsciously believe that people and danger are synonymous, and that safety lies in solitude. ” “ This type can be so frozen in retreat mode that it seems as if their starter button is stuck in the “off” position. “
4. Fawn: ”The Fawn Type and the Codependent Defense
Fawn types seek safety by merging with the wishes, needs and demands of others. They act as if they unconsciously believe that the price of admission to any relationship is the forfeiture of all their needs, rights, preferences and boundaries.”
In contrast “ individuals who experience “good enough parenting” in childhood arrive in adulthood with a healthy and flexible response repertoire to danger. In the face of real danger, they have appropriate access to all of their 4F choices:
-Easy access to the fight response insures good boundaries, healthy assertiveness and aggressive self-protectiveness if necessary”
– Easy and appropriately access to the flight instinct make them disengage and retreat when confrontation would exacerbate their danger.
– They also freeze appropriately and give up and quit struggling when further activity or resistance is futile or counterproductive.
– And finally they also fawn in a liquid, “play-space” manner and are able to listen, help, and compromise as readily as they assert and express themselves and their needs, rights and points of views”.
Peter Walker.M.A.Psychotherapy.
Interesting to see how this explains to some extent the dynamics of the entanglement with a narcissist as well as the patterns present on both the narcissist and the person he/she entangles with.
This was just a rough description. Notice the word “ busyholism”..I did not know that word existed but it makes perfectly sense to me.
Sending you my warmest regards and hoping your grandchildren are fine!
Best wishes
Superxena
Very interesting. Thinking of myself, I am totally No 3 (freeze) with one exception. There nothing subconscious about it. I KNOW people are inherently dangerous and safety can only be found in solitude! It is a very conscious belief based on 60 years life experience! 😄
Now what does this mean about me, other than that I am disordered?
Ha,ha Windstorm. Not at all . I do not regard you as being disordered. What it means is that your coping strategy has been very effective.
It seems to me that besides being a very empathic and warm person you are a very strong one.
Coping with your narc for many years…..
I am working on my balance to launch the 4 when needed…..work,work…can mine be nr 2 dominant?
Best wishes
Ha,ha Windstorm. Not at all . I do not regard you as being disordered. What it means is that your coping strategy has been very effective.
It seems to me that besides being a very empathic and warm person you are a very strong one.
Coping with your narc for many years…..
I am working on my balance to launch the 4 when needed…..work,work…can mine be nr 2 dominant?
Best wishes
Superxena
Maybe you could be a number 2. Me never – I’m far too lazy!
Adding and clarifying: except for the stimulating substance addictions I do not do that…
Superxena, I’m most of the way through fury at the moment. It’s so good. I think you are absolutely on point with your comments.
Thank you, I really enjoy reading your comments and the way you articulate yourself, explaining your understanding. I have gained a lot from your input to the blog.
I have a tendency to just say what I think, And I give credit and praise to others when I recognise such things and the effect a persons point of view has had on me. I am aware I have praised you often, but this is genuine and as I feel at the time.
Quasi!
Thank you very much for your compliments. I am happy to hear that you find my contributions helpful.
I am not so good in taking compliments without feeling sometimes overwhelmed (and a little bit embarrassed as well) but this time I will embrace your compliments with open arms! You words really warm my heart.
Thank you for your positive feedback and for your contributions to this blog.
I hope your journey towards moving on is easier here!
Getting back to fury i can look back on my own life and even now and see where intense anger was a result of fear.
Ive seen some bpd traits within myself altho never diagnosed and one trait of bpd is a fear of abandonment.
I remember being about 9 years old and having a friend over. Another friend who was always taking friends to her place showed up and the two were going to play at her house. Ill never forget the anger i felt when i lost control and started to scream and freak out. I can now understand it went deeper and had to do with my parents very unstable marriage. It had brought out fear of uncertainty and the fear of abandonment. Its so deeply engrained in me to this day i struggle with that fear and sometimes feel anger. I can control my anger but i can relate to how narcissists would feel fury bc to them theyre very afraid of losing control. They didnt have control when they were victims as children and must have control now bc it means survival and safety. Lack of control triggers fury.
When my therapist told me anger stems from fear it seemed to make no sense but i can see it very clear now.
SuperXena,
so I can go into freeze mode when I sense a Borg coming after me (narc), ….. but I can react differently when someone else goes into dissociative freeze mode because afraid of getting too near to people? Can I then go into fight mode? But I don’t feel I want control.
Can a person who retreats want control through that, unconsciously?
How do you get someone out of freeze mode, when there is no actual danger? Can a person not know at all that he is doing that?
SuperXena,
sorry if I repeat myself, but you triggered a lot of thinking/new explanatios in my poor confused brain ….
Is it possible that a grown man goes often into a dissociated state and not know about it at all, that he does so, AND that he believes through using this coping mechanism, that he doesn’t feel too deeply? I recently had told someone myself that I think that he dissociates (slightly, not in a really bad way, though bad enough for me ….), but he rejected this all totally and for some reason I believed him and got sidetracked so to speak.
And how do you make it conscious to someone and how do you begin to heal this? How do you prevent this, and how do you reach through to this person?
I know I am similar myself, but yet a little different.
I also have an exboyfriend whose reactions can finally explained this way, he literally froze, went into stupor. For some reason, my psychology books didn’t tell me of this connection (childhood trauma, attachment problems / neglect, etc.; and yes, he had a really strange mother.).
Hello ava101,
Thank you for your comment. No need to apologise.This site has also triggered curiosity about myself. One of the many positive side -effects.
Psychology is not my field of expertise but I will try to answer your questions based on what I have learned during the seminars and courses I have attended lately about this subject. I hope it helps.
1. “Is it possible that a grown man goes often into a dissociated state and not know about it at all, that he does so, AND that he believes through using this coping mechanism, that he doesn’t feel too deeply?”
As far as I know all these patterns of behaviour/responses are subconscious and learned as a result of repeated trauma during children ( together with genetic disposition).So he is probably not aware of it.
It is what is called now more CPTSR ( responses) instead of CPTSD ( because it is not a disorder)
2. “ And how do you make it conscious to someone and how do you begin to heal this? How do you prevent this, and how do you reach through to this person?
I know I am similar myself, but yet a little different. “
I believe that you cannot make someone else conscious about this pattern of responses. It is only through self-assessment when the person in question has repeated and continuous negative feelings.
A way of beginning this “healing “ process is detecting and identifying the negative feelings or emotions that you perceive when facing different situations and how you cope with them.
It is not an easy process and requires first of all awareness, self-assessment and a lot of work and discipline.
Besides, it seems that most trauma survivors are hybrids of the 4F’s. There are not many “pure” types.There are for instance, three subsets of the fawn type: the fawn-fight (the smothering-mother type) who coercively or manipulatively takes care of others ; the fawn-flight type who workaholic-ally makes herself useful to others; and the fawn-freeze type who numbingly surrenders herself to scapegoating or to a narcissist’s need to have a target for his fury releases.
The healing process happens like this:
-the 4Fs progressively recover from the multidimensional wounding of complex ptsd (r)
-mindfulness of learned trauma dynamics increases,
– the inner critic gets smaller
-the dissociation decreases, as childhood losses are effectively grieved
-the healthy ego matures into an effective manager of the psyche( well,that sounds hard to achieve)
– the emotional vulnerability creates authentic experiences of intimacy, —”and good enough” (?) safe attachments are attained.
Under this perspective, recovery is not an all-or-none phenomenon, but rather a gradual process marked by decreasing frequency, intensity and duration of flashbacks.
I better stop here as I tend to write more like essays!
I hope it helps ava!
Ava101,
….adding: what I think is positive about all this is that as we advance in knowledge and learning here , it becomes more about us and not about the narcissists anymore!
Thank you, dear SuperXena, I will reflect on this!
Interesting.
I just remembered when going through old letters that I had a dear friend in school named Xena. 😉
Yes, it becomes a lot about ourselves, which is good, I have looked a lot into the mirror lately …
I think I find narcs meanwhile the easiest to spot and comprehend *lol*, after HG’s daily dose of insight. I am having trouble with other personality types, now that I don’t let narcs into my life anymore. ;D So there is room now for other disorders and problems …. *sigh*
😉 And normal people are hard to understand for me.
Do you visit seminars etc. just for your personal benefit, or are you planning to use them for your career?
All the best to you. 🙂
You are welcome ava101!
“Yes, it becomes a lot about ourselves, which is good, I have looked a lot into the mirror lately …”
Yes, I think as well that my participation here has evolved in character towards introspection and not stagnation which I think is good ,it feels good.
“Do you visit seminars etc. just for your personal benefit, or are you planning to use them for your career?”
I have always been eager ( curious since childhood) and in pursuit of knowledge without any reasoning aside from wanting to have it. I can certainly apply it in both areas private and professional . Hopefully on many other facets of my life and spread it further!
“And normal people are hard to understand for me. “
Agreed. We human beings are very complicated entities. My concept of “normal” has changed considerably since I have gained more insight here.
I find nature easier to grasp, to understand.
“I just remembered when going through old letters that I had a dear friend in school named Xena.”
I have always liked that name as I am very fond of Greek Mythology and how they depict the Amazonian women / warrior woman archetype—confident, tenacious, courageous, and persuasive. One of my favourite greek characters since I was a child. I have always been fascinated by Greek Mythology!
Do you still have contact with your friend Xena?
“…. now that I don’t let narcs into my life anymore”
I am very glad to hear that ava!
Best wishes.
And ava101 thank you for your feedback!
I guess hurt is sadness related (which brings you down emotionally and he does not feel), whereas wounding is anger/fury related, which brings one to action and he definitely feels.
Lou
That was my take. An amplified hurt that goes past our feeling stage and straight to fury.
NA and Lou,
That helps me understand it better. Hurt would be unrelated to fury and wounding would be related to fury. In that case, everything seems to be related to fury with narcs! So sad…
Hi indy …i didnt realise youre a therapist who teaches dbt. I find dbt therapy very helpful!
I have to snicker a bit at HG playing the game to reap the benefits of an inheritance. From a narcs perspective i can totally see how this would be the natural thing to do bc narcs dont face their inner fears or have a need to work thru their past. In doing so that would mean facing the narc parent and going no contact or limiting exposure.
As a golden child i could see how itd be easier to limit the time spent around the narc parent and put up a facade to get the payout at the end.
I see this a lot with my brother. He scratches my mothers back and she scratches his. I dont know how he feels about the dynamic like im privvy to here with HG. I do know they use each other. Im fully expecting him to make off like a bandit with any type of inheritance she leaves and im ok with that. I dont need her money or things to get by in life and i cant take it with me when i leave this earth. What i can take is the knowledge of what she is and rebuilding how i feel about myself.
Hi Chihuahuamum (nice new name 🙂
I am glad you find DBT helpful! I do myself, when I apply it to my own life as well as what I have witnessed with the adolescents and young adults I have worked with.
I was the same with money as you, I could care less. I did not care to have it. My ex-husband had a boat load and I left without a dime so I could get out and stay out. I have my pride and dignity. I chose that path and I have no regrets. He still hoovers me to this day, and I divorced him in 1998. (Jesus, 20 years).
Nice seeing you and some of the fellow survivors from days past on the blog 🙂
I’d like to comment here, as I’ve enjoyed the comments by so many insightful members of the blog – so thank you everyone!
I wondered if anyone else was bothered, as I was, by the hosts’ reference to their own “human” emotions in comparison to HG’s emotions, somehow implying his are different?
This seemed a dangerous de-humanization of narcissists, that I truly would expect better from therapists…
I get that they were trying to understand HG feels things differently from empaths, but to call their own emotions “human” implies a narcissist doesn’t feel “human” emotions, and this really bothered me..
Other than that, I did have the impression they were awestruck by HG’s explanations, and I truly enjoyed the interview as well.
“It’s all a game” = all I really need to know.
This discussion is very enlightening!
Nuit Étoilée
I sense fear, IMO something is happening behind the scenes.
HG is bringing narcissism out in a way no one can touch, this is going to affect many “experts” on this subject. It has been recycled from a victims POV to the point it is same old thing either worded differently or a different speaker.
I also wouldn’t be surprised if those infatuated with HG are stirring the pot to not being recognised for what they are and being seen as victims because they have been called out for their own behaviors, just another avenue for them to pick up sympathy and cause discord.
I haven’t actually look at the statistics yet wouldn’t be surprised if HG is growing faster then any of them. I remember reading his blog is thrid, what I don’t remember at the moment if it is fastest growth or subject. Maybe both. Yet when I looked he puts more time into his blog with articles and responding, then the others do theirs. So he deserves the recognition for his time and effort, on top of accuracy.
Sadly many victims will only look at things from a POV narcissist always lie, just do things for money etc. Which is true in real life and refuse to actually see for him to accomplish his goal he tells it like it is. The bottom line thou is many don’t want to move out of their comfort zone and actually accept accurate information to heal, but to stay in the victim mode because that have become addicted to it.
I am really running with my thoughts and will stop now.
Thank you Twilight.
Your welcome HG
I am thou very frustrated due to what I am starting to see as closed mindedness and over thinking on my part, yet I believe money is a motivator for some.Those of your kind that don’t see themselves as such are not going to take to kindly to having a source of revenue for them being taken from them, yet it is ok for them to make a financial gain for their “expertise” on being a victim, yet not you for bringing accurate expertise on your perspective all because you have been open with what you are. To the possibility of bullying empaths that actually want to help and see people heal from this sort of abuse, and see your work as a source for accurate information.
SV is not a “threat” to this even thou he is an expert on his perspective he can not bring it into light as you have and are doing. Which I am sure yanks his chain yet has not made an impact on anyone else in regards with a possible disruption to any comfort.
I am curious thou why his interview was excluded and wonder if popularity has anything to do with this, if it had been you they would have been flooded with complaints you have many more that could have very well said pfft to even coming at that point and lost many. The chances of one who follows you listening to another interview besides you is high so in this regard your presences holds value. Yet to appease the negative force something had to be said.
I apologise HG for my rambling I am extremely frustrated and appreciated you letting me vent it here.
Agreed Twilight.
Hi NE!
Yesss yesss yesss! I cringed when I heard them dehumanizing HG!!! I agree, I too would expect better from therapists. It was one of the reasons I joked with HG about being human. I know he gets this a lot and sometimes I think HG believes it.i know HG says he does not feel hurt like others tho it hurts me to hear it and I wonder how HG feels about it. Now, one can take it in a mythical status level too, tho that’s not helpful either.
I agree, there are a lot of insightful and intelligent readers here!
On your observation the gals were dehumanizing HG, it’s nagging me now…there is something about both of them in their delivery that I can only take in small doses. Is it phoniness? I can’t put my finger on it yet. Hence why I referenced the SNL Delicious Dish skit from the 90’s that everyone loves.
Tie in the PTSD warning ahead of HG’s interview, it’s like they were marketing this as getting an interview with a Caged Beast known as the 8th Wonder of the World and you best be in your happy, safe place in order to listen. lol
Clarece
Listening to them I picked up a fakeness. Like they were portraying how they believed they should seem – if that makes any sense.
And, yes, I agree…something behind the scenes is happening, though I do not worry about HG’s work not getting out there. He is a force to be reckoned with.
Indy
I agree with you, I think HG is a force to.
Hi Indy
It is nice to see you back commenting again.
Hi indy…sorry this is late. Its nice seeing you back posting ive missed reading your posts.
I just realised my wordpress name is being used so ill be putting my original name at the end of my posts so people know its me. When i remember that is lol
Narcaffair 🙂
NarcAffair
Since you don’t mind still using it, that’s what I’ll do. Easier to type!😄
Thank you, Twilight, Indy & Clarece for validating my observation. & it is linked to me to Windstorm’s comment about an inability to comprehend others’ feeling/thinking differently from ourselves..
I must work harder on that.. as I recognise i am guilty of being frustrated w others not understanding my experience.. but I need to improve my own listening to others’ lived feelings/experience.
That really is difficult for an empath to grapple w.. the POV of a narc.. which is precisely why your work is valuable, Hg.
This page, reuniting so many of the commenters – it really is a pleasure to read you all -:Noname & Jenna, I’ve missed you – again Merci to everyone for such insightful comments.
Hg, thank you for being so charming & gracious that people will hopefully see past scary labels & learn from your work – I would think even the adage of keeping your enemies close would imply the necessity of hearing Hg’s “voice”.. and that his physical voice is quite pleasing, is a bonus – it is perhaps a legitimate fear as you are quite seductive, & some may worry of falling under your spell, but the devil is desirable – right? Aren’t you then an excellent warning?
In any case, I am grateful for the eye-opening information.
Always nice to read your comments Nuit!
Hi nuit,
I missed you and everyone too!
Although I was late to be linked to this interview, I felt it in the previous interview. There was something I felt a bit uncomfortable with. I don’t remember now but it was along the same lines as you are talking about. I will give her the benefit of doubt though – maybe she was having a bad day or did not know how to respond at certain times.
A therapist told me once that anger is sometimes a result of fear. I think narcissists suppress a lot from the past and at the root is unstableness and fea as a result. What started off as deep hurt morphed into a hard shell that became fury.
So much of npd is survival mechanisms and maladaptive thinking.
I do also believe theres a part developmental/genetic component. I think its the first 5 years of life are the years of fastest most important development in a humans life. If you have an abusive parent and mother in particular it can impact the brain development of that child aside from psychologically. The part of the brain the controls emotion is impaired. The same is seen in murderers and diseases such as autism. The lack of empathy is a very real thing. Thats where many get caught up in the psychological aspect thinking they can change these types and maybe some can modify their behaviours but some are wired permanently and its just not there the opportunity for changing their ways.
Another aspect ive witnessed first hand is that children learn from their parents and they pick up on a narc parents tactics and behaviours and that becomes their normal in life. Ive seen this time and time again. Narc child…look at the main caregiver bc theres a good chance theyre who they learned it from.
Very true….spot on chiuahuahmum….i completely agree.
There are so many comments on here now my phone can hardly load them all!
As I whizzed through I caught a glimpse of “James Bond” and “Aston Martin”…LOVE those cars. They destroyed a DB10 (i think) in the film “Spectre”….was very sad!
I registered with the WNAAD site and there is no user friendly way of getting a link to listen to the interviews. No reply, no help, no DIRECT link on the internet anywhere to the discussion. Do they want to spread the word or not? It should not be this hard!🗣
💫
Hello Catherine,
Here’s a link to the interviews. It works, I have just tested it.
http://www.wnaad.com/2018-telesummit-interviews/
Hello E.B.
Thanks for that!!! I have not been able to get on since the first few hours then I couldn’t anymore.
I tried everything and gave up. It worked perfectly. Glad I was reading all the comments.
Hello Snow White,
You’re welcome. Great to see you here again 🙂 How are you?
Thanks E.B.!!!!
Nice to see that you are around also.
It makes me smile when I see all the readers who have been around since I started still commenting.
I still read many of the articles. HG remains the one and only I can trust.
I can’t believe my two year anniversary was this past April. I am forever changed and some days want the old me back. But overall I’m good and moving forward one day at a time.
I am going to listen to the speakers tonight and tomorrow. I am interested in HG and the one on CPTSD. Unfortunately that has stayed around for me. It’s nice to hear someone who understands. Not many do.
How have you been doing?
Hi SnowWhite, 🙂
Glad to know you are doing well and that you were able to change. One day at a time is good. I do that too. Reading this blog is helpful to avoid falling trap of Emotional Thinking, among many other things. They say that healing is not always linear. Two steps forward and one step back should be ok. As for the WNAAD, they had previously announced there was going to be an interview about Narcissists in the Workplace but it was not there. I only listened to HG’s and to Dr Rhonda Freeman’s. She did not reveal anything I had not read before.
Real life interactions with humans still trigger me and I avoid them as much as possible. Virtual interactions are ok, though. Thank you for asking, SW.
Hi EB and Snow White!!
I am so glad to see you both here too. It has been a long while since I have posted much. This WNAAD is almost like a home coming for me!
🙂
Hello Indy,
Thank you. It is always nice to see you and Snow White here. Although I noticed you were not posting as often as you used to do before, I knew you were still with us 🙂
You are wonderful E. B.! Thank you.
Catherine Parr R
I completely agree. It was an absolute failure in communication on their part (a veritable silent treatment), also, no one should need a password to login, that excludes people who are not “in the know” and that is unfair to those who just recently realized what they are dealing with. It should not have been this difficult at all.
HG
Consider yourself lucky that you missed the intro. I wanted to hurl chunks when I heard that excessively sugar coated load of malarky. I fast forwarded right through that.
P.S.
I know it was well intentioned but because I grew up with lessers I have less patience with that sort of overkill.
I would have thought a 30 second warning would have sufficed.
30 second warning….ah doesn’t HG Tudor self proclaimed sociopathic narcissist with a blog called Knowing the Narcissist with how many followers do you have now HG? Known to have how many testify to the insights they have gotten not only from the blog but from other interviews and the one you did last year for WNAAD….
I went back and listened to the beginning “warning” was not impressed one bit and to much time spent on this maybe a trigger, trigger can come from listening to another victim or specialist speaking in the very topic.
Now I do not mean any disrespect towards those that can be triggered yet the warning in itself can be a trigger to keep someone from listening. And it is not like you just snuck in the back door and did an interview with out saying who and what you were about, Not one person there can give an accurate view of your perspective….
And no one was forced to listen to your interview with out prior knowledge of you.
Sorry for the rant.
Fair observations.
Maybe your making others uncomfortable with your brutal truth of perspective and no one can dispute it. People keep recycling information from a victims perspective and not from the aggressors perspective.
Indeed. There is some value in sharing information from the victim’s perspective as it will provide commonality and validation for people. The downside is repetition, lack of depth and erroneous observations.
You are making people uncomfortable with the truth!
Not only that you validate us, we have a voice here, we have support from others and can share our stories.
There is not one person that can bring to the table what you have.
The truth is uncomfortable when faced in a world where many would rather wrap up in a comfortable lie.
Your kind is not suppose to do as you do HG.
The warning was unnecessary. I think their intentions were good, yet the delivery was not.
I feel as if I am arguing with you, yet I am slightly annoyed thank you for letting me continue with my thoughts.
Not at all, Twilight, feel free to articulate your views.
HG
I sense fear of what you bring. Truth has a way of making a person uncomfortable.
The warning could have been generalized because any of the interviews could be triggering in some way. No they donated 10 minutes at the beginning of your interview. My question is why.
Like I said I don’t believe their intentions were wrong just the delivery was.
No one can dispute your accuracy or the truth of your work, nor can they say you do not encourage no contact and how to go about it and keep it. Your growing at a rate that I do not believe they ever have. Your making an impact in ways they can not.
Twilight
I think you’re on to something there… one of the problems with so much advice out on the web is it’s from a victim perspective. Yes, we were all victims of one type or another, but we need to be addressing how to be “victims no more!” Essential oils and bubble bath may make us feel better right now, but we must be able to change our thinking if we don’t want to stay victims. Hearing the narc perspective from HG does this. We don’t just need to feel better about ourselves, we need to empower ourselves. I didn’t get that from the other presenters I listened to.
Windstorm
I agree our thinking must change, and HG is doing this with sharing his knowledge of his perspective.
People don’t like this because it is going against what they “believe “ in how things are done. They are going to start pushing against this and standing firm is going to matter if change is to happen. Empaths were born to heal and now we are being given the tools to first heal ourselves from this, then to heal others.
Actually I believe essential oils can play an important role in a persons life, we have just forgotten how to use them and how important they are. Nature provides everything we need, one just has to have the knowledge of how to use them.
Bubble baths thou definitely a feel good moment.
K
Ha, ha! I fast forwarded most of it, too! I was appalled at how long it went on. Seemed ridiculous and contradictory. Why have a presenter you have to have a 10 minute warning for? I was insulted on HG’s behalf. I mean, it’s not like he’s a new commodity to them. One would think they were aware enough of his professionalism to trust him to give an appropriate talk for the conference. Did anyone complain last year about him being triggering? My memory of last years talk is very favorable, like this years.
It makes me think of a kind of knee-jerk reaction. Oh, he’s a narcissist! We can never trust him! News flash: narcissists are all around us doing many good things and giving much good advice because it is in their best interest to do so. It was in HG’s best interest to give a logical, informative and professional interview and so he did. And so they should have expected.
Ok, I’ll shut up now.
It is comments such as this which demonstrates that the vast majority of my readers are constructive, articulate and completely understand the purpose and methodology of my work.
Plus we’re smart too!
Goes without saying.
Thank you, HG.
WS
ha ha ha…I know, what a waste! HG could have answered more questions. The warning made him out to be the boogyman who hides under our bed or the creature from the black lagoon and we, the audience, are so fragile that we might break from fear or trauma. Drummed up and manufactured fear and trauma IMO.
You are right; they are all around us (and we lived with them) so we better learn how to deal with them and, I agree, the better behaved and higher functioning ones can contribute positively to society.
I was finally able to listen to HG’s interview until the end last night!
Those two women conducting the interview wasted so much of our time in the beginning with their “warning”. They could have picked up the pace of their monologues! Also, their exaggerated “soft” voices were excruciating.
Did anyone else notice the competition at the end for who got the last word??
Kate
I didn’t notice the competition at the end, but it makes sense with my other observations. I tried to listen to two other interviews, but it was painful. The message was lost in the rampant, seemingly fake emotionalism and the breathy voices.
Maybe it’s the scientist in me, but I like a more logical, unemotional presentation when I’m studying a topic.
HG may have been the narcissist presenter but he was the clearest and most logical that I heard.
WS
I tried to listen to the others…I couldn’t do it so I marginalized them and listened to HG’s interview again and I don’t regret it. If they are going to be that emotional, they should make the interviews 15-20 minutes so we don’t have to suffer unnecessarily. Where is their compassion for the listener?!
Windstorm,
I didn’t even bother to listen to the others. Not that I don’t appreciate their work or the effort they put into their presentations. I just had no interest.
I’ve read Zari’s Books before. It seemed I just read in ‘pain’ the whole time. Just left me even more depressed. That goes for “Psychopath No More” as well. And I don’t need meditation tricks & bubble bath suggestions to help me feel better. Scotch & soda helps.
HG’s vids & his blog gave me “Ah Ha” moments & a strengthened resolve. I remember the first time I read about his take on NC. Basically, it was, “You’re a stupid masochist if you go back. We’ll destroy you.” Dénouement much?
It’s too much for my Super Empath (on the Narcissist spectrum I must admit) to be seen as stupid.
Well this certainly turned into a novella, didn’t it?
Getting to my point straight away—I see no one else as beneficial to my recovery as HG. Just is what it is. And I’ve turned many FB Narc victim friends on to HG. They thank me. He’s just the bomb.com (and he knows it 🙄).
69R
Thank you 69R. I have an entertaining anecdote re the first person you mentioned which I may share in due course.
Looking forward to it.
69Revolver
Thank you, I have made a note to avoid that author and I will take scotch and soda over bubble bath and meditation any day.
HG, brilliant interview. I only listened to yours, no additional information needed. Thank you for your contribution.
Thank you for listening.
HG!!! I loved the interview!!!! Thank you!!!
Thank you.
HG,
I listened and enjoyed your interview for WNAAD – and despite the 10 minute trigger warning preceeding it – I hope some people gave you a listen or at least come here and read a bit. Because I recall the trepidation and lack of trust that I felt at first when I came here and began searching and reading.
I admit that what I felt back then was akin to terror…and also some resentment…that this information was being sharing by a narcissist. But I had so many questions and very little time – so, when I was able to find many answers quickly here, it brought much relief. And when the readings or discussions below were so insightful and interesting; eventually, I felt the need to participate. (Plus, at some point, I felt like I had an opinion and that I was strong enough to share it.)
The overview I got from listening to interviews during WNAAD was that most people’s path to healing is quite unique to them. For myself, I had so many ‘how’ and ‘why’ questions that were readily answered here and I believe that your insight helped accelerate my healing because I was no longer lost and dwelling on the ‘how and why’ part of it – which can trip one up for sometime. Also, if one wants to avoid *future* narcissistic entanglements – this is the best and most expedient source of information.
Thank you WhoCare. Thanks for listening and I am pleased my work has assisted you.
Wow…I think the extensive warning was a bit much! But the 40 minutes I was able to listen to before it cut out were excellent.
Thanks for listening.
I just listened and really appreciated the emphasis on GOSO, “once you know, go”! This saved my sanity almost two years ago. I’ve been no contact for 21 months and left 23 months ago. Your books helped me more than anything else. Most therapists do not know this information though it is getting better and better out there from what I’m witnessing, as a trauma-informed DBT therapist.
I appreciated the emphasis on seeing through different lenses to understand that narcissists see the world differently that from an empath. We all have unique lenses and need to shift view perspective to understand that narcissist logic is not empath or typical or other people’s view of logic. Even “logic” is not uniform as well all have different brains and senses.
And I also like the point that no one can change anyone’s behavior but themselves. We can not control anyone but ourselves. Don’t bother, it’s futile. This is a well known 12 step lesson and in DBT as well. Focus on changing ones own thoughts and behaviors as that is all you CAN control.
I do have a question HG. At the very end of the talk, you advise those that want to play the “game” with their rich narcissistic parents, to not bother and wait until they are passed on to reap the rewards of the will. I agree with this advice to not engage with narcissistic parents though the latter part struck me. What are you doing with you mother, aren’t you playing the game to get pay out by attending therapy so you get your inheritance? Or is this different because you are a greater narc and not an empath or a “typical”? Do you purposely limit your times you talk with matrinarc to minimize the exposure to her toxic ways?
Has anyone else been unable to access the interviews? I used the temporary link that was sent out this morning (since the link requiring the password does not work). I listened to part of an interview on my drive to work. However, since then, I’ve been unable to listen to anything. The page loads and the topics and speakers are there, but there is no way to listen. This is really frustrating, since the material is only available through tomorrow, and I won’t have alone time to listen. On FB, lots of folks commented on having the same issue.
They have had some technical issues Mary, owing to demand.
Yes, I’m have difficulty accessing the talks too. Sent emails to Bree and hopefully they will resolve over the weekend! I’ve seen tweets that the talks were very helpful! Many tweets were quoting you, HG! You are giving valuable knowledge to many in need! A laudable accomplishment! Nice!
Thank you Indy.
HG,
I was finally able to listen and feel like I’m understanding things on a much deeper level than before. So so much you discussed, I’ve seen in my marriage and nearly all intimate relationships in my history. You mentioned the target sometimes records conversations because they question if they are losing their minds. I HAVE DONE THIS! A few times. I didn’t play it back for my spouse. I just needed to hear it myself to know I’m not crazy and to learn to trust my perception and memories.
So much in your interview reached me. I still don’t know how to implement leaving, but you have reaffirmed that it needs to happen because he will not change.
It also helped to hear you say that narcs say things with such conviction and ferocity because they believe it! This is so so important to know it’s that, because when i hear that conviction in what’s said, I think “he must be right.”
Thank you, HG.
Mary
Although it has been annoying, it is a wonderful problem to have. The word is getting out about narcissistic abuse!
Yes me too.
Just listened. As always, excellent interview HG! I wish they had framed you differently in that 10 minute “warning” at the intro. My fear is that the ones that need to hear your message the most will be afraid to listen. Yes, to your victims, you ARE public enemy #1. But to all the other victims, you are the most valuable resource they could possibly have. I suppose if but one victim heeds your advice to GOSO, it would be worth it.
All of the information was wonderful. The real life scenarios easy for victims to relate to even if they haven’t been exposed to any of your work. My favorite part was when you were explaining about how shame works in NPD and is the driver for the need to self defend. You explained it in a way that made sense to me that I’ve not heard from you before. “when you wound us, you jab our shame”. Powerful.
Thank you
Thank you.
I enjoyed your interview very much. I try not to listen to your voice, since I found narcsite, but it was worth it. The British Darth Vader indeed…
Thank you for listening.
Loved your interview as always, HG! I agree that the warning about you maybe being triggering was unwarranted and might have scared people off.
There was just one part I might dispute… I think there very well may be a little man down inside a hollowed-out volcano thinking, “How can I mess up this oerson’s life this week.”
Ha ha, thank you.
Hi HG! I woke up early one morning on vacation just to hear your interview! Mickey Mouse had to wait. Lol Great job! I understood the disclaimer for HG being a trigger, but it was a bit overkill for almost 10 minutes.
Thanks Clarece, yes i am getting the impression from many people that the trigger warning was somewhat on the heavy side.
Heavy side? I thought I was going to need to program 911 on my speed dial in order to listen. Lol
I’m also wondering if that is why they pulled Sam Vaknin’s interview? They decided not to have double the malignant narcissist presence? Glad it was you though. He is not too pleased how that went down by his Instagram post yesterday.
I had not realised his had been pulled, nor do I know why that was. I have the better voice anyway.
The voice AND personality…
Hello Clarece!
I thought last years summit was much better and I had no access on Friday so I was limited to sat/sun. Although SV may come across as pompous to some, I think it would have been beneficial to listen to his interview. He is a cerebral malignant narcissist and people need to understand that he is going to behave as such. His YouTube videos are innocuous and people need to take a step back and get their emotional thinking under control and Bree and Athena shouldn’t be pussy footing around the issue because it isn’t helpful.
BTW, It was very brave of you to ask him to share a snippet of his interview, too bad he said, “No.” I would love to know what he had to say.
I agree, good for you asking SV! Did you ask on his YouTube or FB or does have another site?
I thought last years summit was better as well. Though I did appreciate that neuropsychologist they had on as well. Dr Rhonda something. She gave a nice talk. I mainly can’t to listen to HG, and only heard two talks.
Hi Indy,
Here is my forever motto: A girl can ask. The worst she’ll hear is no. Lol. I’ve heard a lot of no’s in my lifetime. Including from SV. Haha
Sam started a Instagram page earlier this year. His writing there has a much different vibe than his YouTube videos. And it is also completely different than HG, so it’s helpful to layer it in with what I’ve learned here.
Windstorm, I responded to you too. It’s a longer post and in moderation.
Good motto!
Dang it! I just got rid of my Instagram. Shoot! I have been trying to reduced my internet footstep a little, given my ex husband is very good at finding me. He has been benign so far and no hoovers for a few months…yay!! I have him blocked on all media but he gets through anyway via other sources.
I found small v so dry he made me fade to black and fall asleep before I could ever finish his posts or videos, but it would be interesting now to see what he would have had to offer and for others to compare the presentation of his information to what they are offered here, which I find to be much clearer, more accurate to my experiences, more easily digested, and despite the subject matter-enjoyable at times.
I did have issue with the intro to HGs interview as did many, but I think that can be easily remedied in future, and hope that it does not detract from the fact that putting on an event such as the Telesummit is a huge undertaking and there are bound to be issues/mistakes that will be learned from, and improved upon when brought to their attention. A lot of time and dedication was required by those who offered the event and I am glad they provided a period of time with no cost so that people who might otherwise not have been able to participate were able to access the information.
Bottom line: I am grateful that there are people willing to take the time to arrange these events in order that the subject of narcissism reaches more people, and I will express my thanks to them by highlighting the positives along with any concerns and/or suggestions for making further events even more successful. The goal is exposure.
NarcAngel
You are very right. It has to be a monumental undertaking to put on something like this. There has to be a huge learning curve. I imagine their real mistake was trying to go too big too soon.
And your absolutely right that they should be commended and we should appreciate the free access. It’ll be interesting to see how they do next years.
Hi K,
Wow, you think it was brave I asked SV about his interview? It seemed like a no brainer at the time. Why the heck can’t he? That’s why I was wondering if there is some kind of confidentiality agreement for these interviews because they are going to be charging for access to them. SV can seem caustic and abrasive in his answers sometimes from what I’ve seen on the Instagram page. I don’t follow him anywhere else. I’m wondering if he got that attitude in the interview with the ladies, that is what prompted the pulling of his and possibly the warning of PTSD triggers ahead of HG’s interview.
Clarece
Oh yes, I do think you are brave! SV comes across as a pompous ass and I read about an on-line interaction that didn’t go too well and he ended up blocking the other party. And I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a falling out between him and Athena and Bree but we won’t hear about it. It is too bad because the narcissistic perspective is under- represented.
K
SV seems to have other antisocial issues besides just narcissism. They seem to get in his way dealing with others.
WS
He seems cranky and he mentioned that he was jailed so he definitely has issues. On a positive note we can compare and contrast SV with HG. Cerebral v Elite. It’s all good.
Hello K!
“He seems cranky “ I perceive him more as depressed.
“we can compare and contrast SV with HG”
I agree , you can clearly see the difference in communication skills! No point of comparison there..two completely different levels!!
I hope all is fine with you!
Superxena
I wonder how much of the personality differences between HG and SV are due to the type of narc they are? I have often wondered at all the comments about people’s narcs being charming and love-bombing. My greater cerebral exhusband couldn’t love-bomb someone if his life depended on it. He wouldn’t be able to get the words out without laughing! He does have a well-developed sense of humor, but it generally depends on his making fun of someone or a situation. They don’t seem that into mirroring either.
It makes me wonder how much of the charm and ease of conversation in a narcissist is tied to the somatic element? Perhaps cerebral narcs are used to only using their wit and lying abilities to feel superior intellectually? Maybe they never developed the ability to “charm.”
Does anyone out there know a charming narc who’s only cerebral?
Windstorm
Yes my ex was a cerebral greater and could be charming when he wanted to be, it seemed thou it took to much effort on his part to do such, if it wasn’t needed he didn’t bother, he did have a sense of humor thou. I used to tell him he was a human computer, and I did enjoy listening to him when we would walk through the woods, he knew a lot and stirred memories of when I was a child walking with my mentor. I think it was pure chance he found a way in with me, he didn’t know much of my childhood and only I was in a abusive marriage for a long time, he did catch me soon after my ex leaving and putting me in a serious emotional turmoil it was almost a year after being told I would never be able to take care of myself, lol I ever get a chance I plan on seeing that doctor again to show him how wrong he was.
Twilight
Thanks for telling me about yours. Mine can be charming to people he doesn’t know well. But like you said, only briefly.
Windstorm,
“It makes me wonder how much of the charm and ease of conversation in a narcissist is tied to the somatic element? Perhaps cerebral narcs are used to only using their wit and lying abilities to feel superior intellectually? Maybe they never developed the ability to “charm.”
I “just “ have had experience with a Greater Somatic. Yes, he was charming.
I am not so sure if the charm is connected to being a somatic.
I think it depends more on the overall communication trained skills , the high effective trained cognitive empathy and the (fast) trained responses to different scenarios.
I may even say that it depends on the environment they were raised in as children having more opportunities to develop certain “social”and communication skills and learned responses.
It is just an hypothesis.
Superxena
Thank you for your input and opinion. My greater cerebral is great at reading people, has good cognitive empathy, is a very quick thinker, and highly trained in communication skills. He is a prosecuting attorney and makes his living with words.
But he is not charming. He never flatters unless there’s a veiled insult concealed in it. He’s abrupt. He’s either condescending or a catch-you-off-guard type person who likes to shake people up by obviously seeing thru their pretenses, then making fun of them.
He’s a very gifted liar, but he has no patience when he has to do something he doesn’t enjoy. Maybe that’s why he doesn’t do charming. He just can’t stand to spend the time flattering someone because he hates to do it.
That’s why I thought it might be a somatic thing to be charming. A somatic would think ahead to getting fuel from this person with his charm. For my exhusband there are far more pleasant ways of getting his fuel by being uncharming. He primarily uses sarcasm, caustic wit, teasing, blunt honesty – all based on outthinking the other person.
You are welcome Windstorm,
“My greater cerebral is great at reading people, has good cognitive empathy, is a very quick thinker, and highly trained in communication skills. He is a prosecuting attorney and makes his living with words.”
Well, there goes my theory then. This with the information given by K and my ex Somatic being very charming may point to a correlation. But our three cases are far from representative.
“For my exhusband there are far more pleasant ways of getting his fuel by being uncharming. He primarily uses sarcasm, caustic wit, teasing, blunt honesty – all based on outthinking the other person.”
This description made me laugh Wimdstorm especially getting his fuel by being uncharming.
Today I feel like putting some narcissists ( from my workplace) in a box, locking it and throwing away the key( and the box) .
Our three cases are far from representative.So perhaps we should go instead to the main source and ask:
HG,
Is there any correlation between charm and school and/or cadre of narcissist?
Superxena
Glad you got a laugh! Yes, he’s fine-tuned his “uncharming” into an art form! Lol!
Hi SX!
I am doing well, thank you. Sam can definitely come across as depressed and sentimental at times and the contrast between HG and SV clearly demonstrates the differences between those two cadres, which I find very helpful with my on-line field work.
Hope all is well with you, too!
Hello K!
Thank you I am fine.
Interesting your on line field work!
Windstorm had a question concerning charm if it is connected just to the cadre somatic or if there are charming cerebrals. Have you done some research about this?
Best wishes.
Hello SX
I have not done any extra research regarding charm/facade, however, I know two cerebral narcissists that remind me of SV; they are not very charming and they come across as haughty, arrogant and dismissive.
I find it quite helpful to have real life examples that sync up with HG’s writings and SV is a classic cerebral.
Warmest regards
Hello K!
Thank you I am fine.
Interesting your on line field work!
Windstorm had a question concerning charm if it is connected just to the cadre somatic or if there are charming cerebrals. Have you done some research about this?
Best wishes.
K,
You also received a duplicate of my answer. You may want to dismiss one of them. It feels like I am cloning here!
No worries SX! I have had duplicates before, too, as well as, myriad typos.
Clarece
I skipped right over that silliness. I don’t have time for that sugar-coated-fairy-dusted mumbo jumbo. Also, everyone should have access to the summit-no sign up and pass words-and next year they should livestream only one interview and that interview should be with HG. It is vital that people understand the narcissistic perspective so they know what they are dealing with and GOSO and go NC. You can’t hug the narc out of them (delusional) and what the hell happened to “little v”!!!
K
My guess is that small v could not stand the magnified spotlight of HG to his little birthday candle so he offered something in his interview they did not feel they could present. That way he did not have to withdraw but instead screamed censorship and became the victim. Guess we will never know because people have requested for him to discuss what he what slated to present but his answer is: No. contact WNAAD.
Haha. Without the period his answer is No contact WNAAD.
NLP anyone? Hahaha.
NarcAngel
Ha ha ha….I was wondering if there was a falling out between “little v” and the empaths and it is being kept under wraps. No drama before the big event. To be honest, I wouldn’t mind hearing what he had to say because he represents the narcissistic perspective and we need a more balanced approach to WNAAD. Twilight and HG are right, it is just recycling info from the victims POV, lack of depth and erroneous observations.
Well, I certainly hope they can get together and work through any issues for next year.
Hi K!
I agree access should be longer for the interviews especially given the technical difficulties they had.
Last year, they had less speakers and they emailed the recorded interview, one or two per day over a 7 day period but you had approx 10 days to listen to them. I didnt like the 3 day cutoff either. Sometimes you want to re-listen to an interview and you pick up different things you missed on the first time.
Something doesn’t pass the smell test with SV’s interview being pulled. He’s clearly outraged. I find it odd that Bree and Athena didnt address it given they advertised his interview and he does have his own huge following with people who feel he helped them too.
Tone or content of his interview possibly (maybe he was being too superior or condescending with questions they asked and they thought it could cause a PTSD trigger for some legitimately?).
Btw, Narc Angel, you must have checked out his IG page. Thst was me who asked him to share a snippet of his interview. Lol To which he said no.
I’m wondering if there was some confidentiality agreement though? I just thought he could use his own page to share any message from the interview if he chooses.
Something sketchy went down. There’s a story there for sure.
I also question if it somehow ties in with the 10 minute warning that went ahead of HG’s interview? Maybe Bree and Athena were getting complaints ahead of time for speaking with 2 Narcissists?
Clarece
I’d have liked to hear SV also. From previous times hearing him I’ve come away with a negative impression and I’d have liked another chance to evaluate him. Having been connected most of my life with a greater cerebral narc, I can’t help compare them. It seems to me that he lets his own grandiosity blind him and does himself harm. Well then, so does mine, but I guess I expected more from a famous one. Lol!
He just hasn’t come across as savvy and clever as I would have expected. Maybe he just doesn’t interview well.
And I also agree about the limited time to listen to the interviews. I’ve managed to squeeze in two more, but that’s only 5 out of 16? I’d have tried at least a part of every interview if I’d had more time. Although I swear the last one was entirely a promo of the woman’s book and how incredibly helpful it would be if we purchase it or do one of her webinars. 😄
Hello WS! I always love hearing from you!!
When I first discovered HG, I also explored other resources to study about narcissism. I was also “afraid” to put all my eggs in one learning basket with someone called Malignarc on an “Evil” website. Lol (that was way back when, HG).
Two, that I came to really admire and still read their work is Greg Zaffuto and Christine Louis de Canonville. Naturally, I found SV on YouTube and try as I may I could never last more than 5 minutes on a video. He just could not hold my attention and I started focusing more on his delivery than his actual message. I always ended up with a tilted head, squinty eyes going “huh?” staring at my screen.
What was interesting, is SV started an Instagram page earlier this year that I stumbled on. His posts there are very interesting. His personality seems to come thru more in these snippets of writing and then he links his journals with extensive compository on each subject he addresses in each post, i.e., narcissists dealing with loss, intimacy avoidance, why no woman wanted to bear his child, cheating, etc.). He is cerebral. He does not seem to enjoy having any interaction much with the readers. His superiority comes beaming thru. It’s interesting to see where there are parallels with HG and SV and also how completely different backgrounds and personalities developed while sharing the core defense mechanism of narcissism to survive horiffic childhood abuse.
On a link to one of SV’s posts, he explains how he was born a “wunderkid”. A complete brainiac, a walking dictionary and was always studied by doctors and psychologists and this garnered tons of outside attention for both him and his fame hungry mother while growing up.
Then in the journal, he talked about the actual verbal, emotional, and physical abuse he suffered by his mother. Daily beatings he remembers from the age of 4 and up. Head smashed on tables. Whipped with a belt. Anything creative he wrote or drew as a child she would destroy. He was stripped of any sort of individualism.
He learned to master 0 attachment to any single thing. He says he even lives in hotels moving around every few months.
Imagine, these two very different men (HG, SV), both born and bestowed with such brilliant, capable minds, what they could have accomplished in the world in science, in business, in education, in medicine had it not been for irreversible, all-consuming abuse that then has a ripple affect on every subsequent relationship in their lives. Yes, I know, their imprint on the world is all the people they help heal from their own experiences with narcissistic abuse and educating about it. There is tremendous merit and honor in that.
But Goddammit, it makes me grieve for those innocent baby boys robbed of a real, loving childhood.
SV said he grew up in a culture where kids getting beaten for discipline was commonplace but that there was still something different about his mother’s way going about it. The interviewer asked what did SV think that difference was. He answered, “the hate and contempt in her eyes.” I just can’t shake that. It sickens me. It sickens me what HG has been willing to share about Matrinarc.
Why can’t there be a different ending for them with their awareness?
I am glad I am not the only one who found the introduction about HG being triggering strange
So far, it seems like a lot of people did!
Did you listen HG?
No, I was there when it was recorded!
Haha! I meant the intro. I figured they added it after.
Ah, I understand. Yes they did add it afterwards.
Hi HG , can you please send me a link. My computer won’t download it
Thanks!
Have you been able to listen yet?
Yes, thanks, HG! I found it excellent!!!
In agreement with others, the intro warning did seem excessive. Like Windstorm said, it may have scared off some folks who really could benefit from HG. I’m sure it was just a precaution, to cover them in case anyone was upset or just confused about a narcissist being invited to the WNAAD party so to speak. Hopefully they still listened and realized HG is a narcissist they want in their corner.
Hi Windstorm,
In reply to your comment: “I have often wondered at all the comments about people’s narcs being charming and love-bombing. My greater cerebral exhusband couldn’t love-bomb someone if his life depended on it. He wouldn’t be able to get the words out without laughing! He does have a well-developed sense of humor, but it generally depends on his making fun of someone or a situation.”
What you wrote about your ex could fit my husband perfectly, except I know he isn’t a greater. He has a really fun sense of humor, and like you said, it’s all around making fun of someone or a situation. I have picked up that habit too, laughing at that kind of humor, and engaging in some of it (to impress him maybe). It’s fun to be able to laugh with someone regardless of the subject matter. He doesn’t love-bomb and charm either. He would consider it cheesy and lame. However, the times we broke up while dating, he went from ignoring me sexually to suddenly acting like it was soooo sexy to watch me change cat litter. He does stop the rages when in pursuit mode, but they resume instantly when we were back together. Usually within five minutes.
Mary
Windstorm, the UMR narc I dated was mostly cerebral and a bit somatic in that he was/is a hedonist in seeking physical pleasure. He certainly has charm, but it’s mostly just an act he does, I’ve been able to observe him many times and he also pretty much told me he does it to get people (mostly women LOL) to like him and then give him preferrential treatment – in business etc. Of course, he couched it in shinier terms, such as “I’m brightening their day up a bit, they love the attention”, but essentially it was pure manipulation and attention seeking.
I think what you’re referring to can be explained by introvert vs. extrovert personality type. Extroverts will typically be more charming because they are more open and relaxed around people and they get more practice talking to, joking or flirting with others. Introverts may make up for what they lack in charm with wit and sarcasm, as introvert narcissists surely are frustrated by the lack of attention that their stand-offish behaviour causes and eventually they are forced to seek attention by making themselves interesting in some manner – and since their strength lies in their brains, so-to-speak, instead of physically prancing around like a prized stallion, they use wit and sarcasm.
Figure it all out
Thank you for your comment. I greatly appreciate all that people are sharing about cerebrals they know.
I’m very familiar with introvert/extroverts. I am very highly introverted myself and so have studied it extendedly. Unfortunately that premise will not work with my exhusband. I can’t imagine anyone more extroverted! He’s one of those people always talking, likes to be the center of attention, what I call “classically narcissistic.” He’d walk naked across his office full of people if it wouldn’t get him arrested/fired!
Windstorm
I just spit my drink out at the last line of your comment.
I have actually seen that happen, no not my ex but a MR. I just was looking like WTH and then started laughing, I was so embarrassed and that is my usual response when I am throughly embaressed. Let’s just say at that moment Free Willy took an entire new meaning for me and conjours that image every time I either hear or read that.
Twilight
Glad you got a laugh! He’s always walked around “au natural” whenever possible. I could easily see him need to change clothes at work and just strip down in his office – if he wasn’t smart enough to foresee the adverse consequences.
Windstorm
Not to mention at his age- the added danger of tripping over his nuts.
NarcAngel
😝😝😝
Its too bad they pulled sam vaknins interview. Ive also found his videos very helpful and honest. Last year supposedly he wasnt invited but id read he didnt go bc of richard grannon. Its hard to say why his interview was not included. I hope to listen to HG and the others interviews. I missed signing up.
I’m not really sure where this is going to end up in the thread, but I’m answering Windstorm’s reply to my (i.e. figue it all out’s) comment on extro/introverts.
In that case, I would assume that your cerebral ex lacks the desire and/or capability to charm, and is thus more intent on making an impression than on being likeable and charming.
Morning Sun
Thank you for your reply and input. I think your right. He’s too good a liar to lack the ability. I think he lacks the desire. I think being charming doesn’t fit with his own self-concept. I do still wonder, though, if that is typical of cerebrals.
WordPress really needs to make it so we can reply under individual comments.
Hi Windstorm…im an introvert as well. I avoid the spotlight at all costs.
I had to laugh at your exhubbies desire to go au natural. My narc isnt a cerebral but there are days hes been naked in his condo. I still find this odd. His windows are in a position where no one can see in.
I wonder if your ex would ever want to join a nudists group? Its foreign to me i need my clothes lol
NarcAffair
Ha, ha! You made me laugh! Nooo, he’d never want to join a nudist camp. Joining a group is too close to implying that he’s on their level! It was hard to get him to wear clothes in the house when the kids were at home. The best I could get was underwear. He literally can not sleep wearing any clothing. When he spends the night at my house or if we have to share a room at our daughters or a reunion, I can guarantee he’ll be walking around naked.
He’s house sitting for me while I’m in Kansas right now. Last night I asked him to look for a package that was delivered. He grumbled about already having his clothes off and I’d say it’s even money he went out there naked. Lol!
But it is very freeing. It’s my preferred way when I’m home alone. All of my sheets and furniture covers are incredibly soft…..
Erm… I’m not a narc and I’m a nudist. I find the puritan ideas on nakedness and modesty hilarious.
Nakedness actually defetishises the body. I find it incredibly freeing, but I take care not to make others uncomfortable with it and thus am only naked at home, in the sauna or on a nudist beach.
More power to your nudity!
Agreed MB. I understood the need for a warning as HG is definitely a trigger. I’ve promoted certain books to others on FB support pages whom I felt would benefit & I’ve received backlash for suggesting him.
Yeah, I hated him for a good month when I first started listening (lol) but learned so much I kept going back. I say give him a chance to help heal you. Even though you can’t wrap your head around why the hell he does it.
Yeah, I thought he was creepy at first too, but since first discovering his existence in February, I have become quite fond of the chap.
I just thought the intro was over the top like his interview was going to be him showing his dark side or something. It bothered me because I know he isn’t like that (in his blog world) I felt he was being misrepresented to those unfamiliar with his work and it made me feel protective.
I would rather them have used the information for his bio from the “About” section of narcsite (quoted below)
“I do this because I like to write. I like to interact with people. I want to be the number one source for the reality of how my kind think and behave. I also find the weaponising of empaths and having them go into battle with my kind entirely in accordance with my worldview.”
Good point.
HG
MB raises a great point. Perhaps that paragraph should be the intro to all of your interviews and books. It would save time and may lessen any anxiety one might have in proceeding, or deciding which of the interviews to choose if they are limited to only so many due to the (free) time constraint. I understand their decision to include the warning, but it could have been much more brief and less ominous. It actually seemed more prejudicial than helpful which I am sure was not their intent. I do hope people will contact them on the WNAAD website to comment on how the event has affected them both personally, and in raising the awareness of narcissism, as they put much time and effort into this important (for all) goal (especially in light of the shaky start which had to have been frustrating for them). Suggestions on how things can be improved and comments on who they found helpful also contributes to their hopefully continued and future success, so it is important for them to hear the fruit of their labours.
That is not a bad idea, thank you.
HG
Quite welcome. Great information in your interview as always, with the side benefit to all of hearing that panty-melting voice of yours.
Ha ha, thank you for listening.
Hello NarcAngel,
I agree with all that you wrote. The long trigger warning was unnecessary and counterproductive. The hosts scare people away instead of encouraging them to listen and understand. People who have been ensnared by narcissists can only benefit from HG’s advice. They get validation, insight and help in different situations.
I have just listened to the interview for a second time. Glad I did it. I was able to learn and understand certain things which were not so clear to me until now. There is always something new to learn.
Just in case some of you have not listened to it yet, here’s the link:
http://www.wnaad.com/2018-telesummit-interviews/
Thank you EB.
You are welcome, HG. I enjoyed it very much.
Thank you, E.B. for that link. I was hoping to listen to it again!
HG,
Will this interview be made available later on YouTube? And are they going to have it transcribed so that people can read it? Do you ever have interviews that you do on YouTube transcribed? I am not aware of them being available if they are.
I forgot to thank you for the great information from you in the interview. Sorry! I was a little irritated in my earlier post as those other Narcissists (would they be Victim Narcissists??) and the problems with accessing your interview were causing my distraction from that..
Hello Kate, I have no idea if there is any plan for it to be on YouTube or whether it will be transcribed. So far as I know, none of my previous Youtube interviews have been transcribed. I have a handful of interview requests ongoing at present so there will be more of me on the airwaves, so to speak, in the weeks ahead.
Thank you for answering, HG!
I hope you tell us ahead of your scheduled interviews and how to access them, like you did with this one.
You could write a really funny “warning” introducing yourself in future interviews..
Ha ha, maybe I could be like a Bond villain at the beginning.
Or Darth Vadar…the Joker voice…or The American Psychopath. Make a few references to Huey Lewis and the News.
I may have to return some video tapes.
HG
Haha. I wonder what P. B would use to excuse himself if that movie were made now. In that vein-I wonder what you would use.
I’d say I have to update my scrapbook.
Oh my, that thought sent my imagination into overdrive….your scrapbook
HG
Very good. I forgot about your little hobby.
Oh HG, you need to turn it up, they are putting trigger warnings on you. I say you start with this :
“I’m into, uh, well, murders and executions, mostly.”
Arf!
Haha
Indy,
re “I’m into, uh, well, murders and executions, mostly.”
Ha ha ha – That would be great 🙂
“Oh, by the way, H stands for Hannibal. Any similarity to Mr. Lecter is purely coincidental.”
Hi HG,
I like the James Bond reference. You can pull up in an Astin Martin (I think that is what he usually drives?), saunter in with a lovely lady on each arm, Bond music in the background. Command the room, take a seat and have a martini (shaken, not stirred) and tell everyone not to be scared – except those two who are your props. Tell everyone to prepare themselves by lying down with smelling salts and cold compresses for their foreheads – and they should also have a drink.
Seriously, those two women made themselves sound so ridiculous. You said that they added the “warning” AFTER your interview – anyone with half a brain could tell that you were there to be helpful, not harmful.
They sure made you out to be an ominous villain, though. I feel that it was disrespectful to you and your contribution. I wish that I could hear it again, as well as the interviews that I missed, but can’t afford to pay that excessive fee!
Aston Martin, although the type has diversified.
Indy, lol!
Hi Jenna!
Are you the same Jenna I knew from 6 months ago?
How are you doing these days?
Hi indy!
Yes i am the same jenna! I am doing well and narc free. I have changed my whole attitude towards life and i owe it all to hg, his books, consults, blog, and interacting with you lovely people! I am no longer super sensitive as i was when i was with narc, and as a result, i am more careful now with what i say, and what i type. I don’t want to hurt anyone even mistakenly. All this realization came post narc. When i ponder abt how sensitive i was during narc days, i can barely believe that was me. How r u lovely indy?
Jenna
I’m glad to see you hear again, also! I’ve been worried about you. I’m so glad that you’re doing better, too. That’s wonderful news!
Hi windstorm,
Thank you. Glad to see you too! I believe you were away for some time. I was waiting for your return. The blog didn’t feel the same without you🌷
Hello Jenna!
Nice to see you back again and I saw your comment on Why Must It Hurt? And I think this may be the article you are referring to.
https://narcsite.com/2018/05/16/shut-up-5/
Your comment to HG made me laugh and I am happy to read that you are feeling better.
Hi dear K,
I am happy to be back. I can’t stay away from you and all you lovely people here for too long! I saw your comment in the other article. Thank you. I am glad I made you laugh!
Jenna
Awwww! That’s sweet. ❤️
Hi Jenna,
I am soo soo proud of you! What amazing progress! And, I am so glad you applied what you learned from HG, he is wise when it comes to helping getting rid of abusive individuals out of your life and reducing emotional thinking.
I am doing better, it has been a year of healing(physically and emotionally). This July 4th it will be two years since I left. The after effects can take a long time to heal from and I am taking that time 🙂 Single and happy.
So nice coming here and seeing fellow survivors and blog friends 🙂
Indy
I’m glad you’re back commenting more, too. Missed you! It is great to be part of the community here and hear from blog friends.
Indy,
Thank you. I am so pleased that you are doing better as well. It feels like a happy reunion!😀
For those of you who are not at this stage yet, just use GOSO and no contact, and you WILL get there! You can be narc free and happy!
My guess is that the interviews are being sold by WNAAD for access to them for a year, along with their shirts and bracelets.
Hi Indy,
Sounds like a for-profit business. I wonder who is profiting? Do they run a charity of some sort, such as helping survivors who need access to mental health care and can’t afford it? If not, that is what they should be doing with all of that money. Hmmmm.
Hi Kate,
I totally agree. It should go toward a charity for survivors. Safe homes, domestic violence shelters, free HG books (hehe), yes! Do speakers get paid for their time and expertise on WNAAD, HG?
No, the others do it for love. I do it because I want people to get the right information.
Love, haha. I am not sure all the others do it for just love. Even non-narcissists like to have their name associated with good causes. Its good for business and reputation and developing a specialty. Though, I am sure there is some empathy and desire to do good as well.
“Whats love got to do with it” …aka Tina Turner
They do it “for love”! Haha 🙂
Big time!
After this intro I was awaiting ‘ no one was harmed in the making of this interview ‘ disclaimer at the end.
It was excellent though…You’re such a compelling communicator Mr. Tudor.
Ha ha, I should have said that at the ned, maybe next time. Thank you for listening.
69R – It is interesting to read how people first perceived Mr. Tudor upon the discovery of his work. I did not dislike him at all. Quite the opposite, I enjoyed reading his message. My main reaction was of disbelief but not for the reasons some might think.
Thank you so much EB, I was not able to get the link at the weekend… will try and listen now.. that’s so helpful of you.
NarcAngel
I agree. As a condition of granting an interview, he could have a standard intro/bio that he asks them to read. It should speak to the multitude of testimonials that he has received from victims that have been helped and even lives saved (not being dramatic here) as well as his reasons for doing this. For someone as brilliant as he is, and especially for a narcissist, he really doesn’t toot his own horn much where his work is concerned. Next time, brag a little bit HG, you’ve earned it! I know you will write an extraordinary and succinct introduction lasting way less than 10 minutes!
NarcAngel
Panty melting except for Jess. Poor thing hears the British Darth Vader! I’ve never listened to Sam V, but his interview being pulled sure does make me curious as to what he said!
Oh….there’s panty melting. “Whistles innocently.” I thought the youtube recordings were addictive but his live interviews….good grief! Such a good speaker on the fly. Another reason I’ve put off the audio consult. If I’m attracted to someone I need to get up and run while repeating “the mirror, the void, the creature.There is nothing else.” “The mirror, the void….”
I’m fine. We’re all fine….
HG’s writing is a bit like magic mushrooms – you are taken on a trip, but what you get out of depends on what you put in. GIGO applies. 🙂
If you come with romantic ideas about dark princes, the super-narc to top all narcs etc., then it’s easy to become infatuated with HG’s persona and start worshipping him as if he was a cult leader. If you restrain your emotional thinking and approach his teachings with a clearer purpose, you get something very different out of them.
Although I admit that some of his pieces as the ultimate ET wank fodder. Which I’m sure is the intention – trial by fire, anyone?
Wank fodder!!?
Sounds like it can be right up there with the “danger wank”. lol
Ha ha ha….wank fodder…that was hilarious, Figure it all out, thanks for the laugh.
Hahaha, yeah, like slipping down the rabbit hole, inducing a different state of consciousness. ;D I knew HG that your writings must have something in common with psychedelic music/art; incl. that there is no turning back. Follow the white rabbit.
Figure it all out: “…I admit that some of his pieces as the ultimate ET wank fodder..”
FIAO just admitted to using this site for a wank. ‘Tis too much.
Figure it all out: “If you come with romantic ideas about dark princes, the super-narc to top all narcs etc., then it’s easy to become infatuated with HG’s persona and start worshipping him as if he was a cult leader.”
FIAO: Super-narc dark princes aren’t everything, but you can’t wank just over cult leadership.
Next tune in for FIAO’s a-coming.
Why yes, HG, with your sensuous words you sometimes paint a picture of the ultimate Byronic hero with an Oscar Wilde-ish twist, entwined with the tragic emapth heroine who desperately loves the Beast for the Prince she wishes him to be…
Your writing is sometimes more logical with you as the teacher/lecturer, and sometimes more emotionally evocative with you as the seducer, the genius player who oh-so-finely draws his bow over the heartstrings of his readers…
In other, simpler and no less true words – the ultimate emotional wank fodder for empaths who continue to love the fantasy layered onto the real.
That is not to say that you or your brilliant words aren’t real – mimicry and manipulation are among the many real faculties that you possess and expertly use. Like I’ve said before – you are the fire that becons from afar, warms from the right distance, and scorches up close – whether this scorching is cleansing or not, depends on the one jumping in your incredible fire.
Impressive. Do you like New Order by the way?
“Impressive” Haha – I used to think that the day would never come.
Thank you, HG, that is high praize indeed, coming from you.
You asked me about New Order in the past, because of the name Morning sun… I like them, and their song really suits the topic of this blog, but the name has nothing to do with them. Or was there somewhere else you were going with the question?
No, you worked it out correctly, thank you for clarifying.
MorningSun,
I cannot follow you, or you mean that Byron and Wilde both were seduced by the sweet words and illusions of men, too, themselves?
Fire?
“Nay, let us walk from fire unto fire,
from passionate pain to deadlier delight?”
However, yes, words can be deadly and sooooooo painful.
Each man kills the thing he loves
By each let this be heard,
Some do it with a bitter look,
Some with a flattering word,
The coward does it with a kiss,
The brave man with a sword!
Some kill their love when they are young,
And some when they are old,
Some strangle with the hands of Lust,
Some with the hands of Gold:
The kindest use a knife, because
The dead so soon grow cold.
Some love too little, some too long,
Some sell, and others buy;
Some do the deed with many tears,
And some without a sigh:
For each man kills the thing he loves,
Yet each man does not die.
(Oscar Wilde)
I said it before: Wilde certainly knew what he was talking about and had his share of narcs …..
Ava101
This is such a dark poem! I agree that the author is well acquainted with narcs and the suffering they cause, but I wonder if it’s not because he is one himself. His belief and acceptance that “all men kill the thing they love” sounds to me like something a narc would think as an excuse for his behavior, maybe an UMR? Smart enough to see all the destruction of his and others selfishness, but not aware enough to realize that all men are not that way.
Ava101, I wasn’t drawing a connection so much to Byron and Wilde as authors but more to them as the personas they created; Byron loved to portray himself as he did his heroes – troubled, with a dark and dangerous past, but also highly cultivated, intelligent etc. Wilde’s persona (i.e. the way people perceive him and the way he portrayed himself) was more eccentric, with more than a hint of depravity… I love the connection you’ve drawn, however.
I’m sure you understand that HG as we know him on this blog is a persona constructed by the real HG. Perhaps this persona is closest to who he really is as here he can expose an intimate part of himself that he keeps hidden in real life, but it is still a construct and this construct changes depending on what he wishes to achieve. His intelligence and wit are astounding and thoroughly Machiavellian – his communication is a work of art that in my personal opinion transcends the morality of good and evil in the true sense of l’art pour l’art – and I’m not taking about the content of his writings, but the manner, the intention, the effect, the subtleties… brilliant and sublime.
Not many people operate with such subtlety and it’s a pleasure (one that moralists would certainly call perverse) to interact with someone who does – in a NISS or NITS capacity, of course!
Dear Windstorm:
Thank you very much, interesting thoughts!! You might be right. I personally like to think that he shared feelings of pain and passion similar to mine … hm…. I believe that poem was written when he had already been thrown into jail for his love (or rather whom he loved), but I might be wrong.
He has also written one of my favorite poems, Panthea, the first lines are that “Nay, let us walk from fire unto fire”, but it proceeds like this, e.g., I think you’ll like this:
(…)
For, sweet, to feel is better than to know,
And wisdom is a childless heritage,
One pulse of passion—youth’s first fiery glow,—
Are worth the hoarded proverbs of the sage:
Vex not thy soul with dead philosophy,
Have we not lips to kiss with, hearts to love, and eyes to see!
(…)
Is the light vanished from our golden sun,
Or is this dædal-fashioned earth less fair,
That we are nature’s heritors, and one
With every pulse of life that beats the air?
Rather new suns across the sky shall pass,
New splendour come unto the flower, new glory to the grass.
And we two lovers shall not sit afar,
Critics of nature, but the joyous sea
Shall be our raiment, and the bearded star
Shoot arrows at our pleasure! We shall be
Part of the mighty universal whole,
And through all æons mix and mingle with the Kosmic Soul!
We shall be notes in that great Symphony
Whose cadence circles through the rhythmic spheres,
And all the live World’s throbbing heart shall be
One with our heart, the stealthy creeping years
Have lost their terrors now, we shall not die,
The Universe itself shall be our Immortality!
***
Morning Sun,
does your nick have a mystical meaning?
Ah, I understand now, yes, the persona. You are right about the poets, and HG’s persona.
And I assume you couldn’t have said anything more flattering to HG! 😉
Just found a piece of paper from about 20 years ago where I had noted some words by Kafka: Art (exists) for art’s sake, as love for love’s sake, and even life for life’s sake.
Something like that. 🙂
Ava101
That is a very good poem. I can see how it could be your favorite. Very well written and evocative. It wasn’t written for people like me though. I’m a chaser of wisdom, hoarder of old proverbs and philosophy! For me, to know is better than to feel. 😄
I grew up thinking that romance and true love lasting forever was all lies and delusion. Such beautiful love poetry is really wasted on me. But I can enjoy the cadence of the poemand appreciate the skill of a great wordsmith.
But dear Windstorm,
Wilde was a great erudite of ancient wisdom and philosophy. 😉
Including pantheism, based on Spinoza’s “deus sive natura”, God as one with nature.
I thought that the reference to nature would suit you. 🙂
But back to narcissism, before HG complains: I don’t think that this concept goes together with narcissism.
I do not mind observations re literature and philosophy Ava101, better than cookery discussions!
And certainly many famous writers and philosophers were also narcs, so not totally off topic. Lol!
WS
My money is on E.A. Poe being a narcissist.
K
I question anyone who could write something like Annabelle Lee. But then I am a cynic.
Haha, you haven’t forgotten. 🙂
The trigger warning was a bit ominous and kept some from listening but I bet more were intrigued. The point is to trigger them, make them feel so they can deal with the truth. In this case it’s hard…I get it. They won’t just go away. You have to make them go away. You are fighting for your life…. it’s not sunshine and lollipops.
What a happy coincidence for me – June 1st is my ex-husband’s and my Wedding Anniversary.
How appropriate..
Signed up. Can’t wait to hear your words, but as always, I have to.
Super duper.
I didnt sign up yet i hope its not too late?
Snow White,
Or, “I’ve been to hell and back and all I got was this lousy T-shirt.”
Thanks for the link and reminder, HG. I always really enjoy your livestreams and interviews. Looking forward to this one!
Signed up!
Signed up! I’m super excited. Thank you for sharing this, HG. I do have one question listening: Is the only way to listen to the discussions/presentations live? Or, are they recorded so we can hear them later if we miss something? I work on June 1, and on June 2 have family visiting. Just checking.
They are not live. They are all pre-recorded and I understand are released on this date.
Thanks, HG. So we can listen to them anytime then. Yay! Happy dance.
HG Tudor,
Jack of all trades, master of narcissist.
I am excited for you to be invited back again for this endeavor! They have an impressive lineup and it is great for you to have this platform to reach listeners unfamiliar with your work or some who may have heard of you and been intimidated because of the “Evil” persona. It’s been a long time since you have done any interviews or live streams so I know you’ll make this count with an interesting topic as always!!
Thank you Clarece.
Signed!! And soooo looking forward!!
“…we all know the real reason you will want to listen don’t we?”
Haha – Our dear narrator has every reason not to be humble. 🙂
Thank you for letting us know! Question: I went no contact w a narc boyfriend. Can I just ignore texts and calls w out blocking him? He is a mid ranger. I dont want to piss him off by blocking him unnecessarily. Its not an issue of my being reeled back in. He is texting me after no contact for 2 weeks. Im buying your book but in the meantime do you advise I block him/change my phone number? I fear he will come over if I do that. He has shown rage but never been physical w me. He beat up his Dad though and picks fights w everyone. When I went no contact, he texted me Dont tell me what to do when I texted Dont call, text or come over. Thank you for your time HG!
Hi HG,
How can we watch – YouTube? This is all new to me.
Thank you!
Whoops! I should have read below the symbol. Sorry to bother you with such a dumb question!
You listen. If you sign up to it you will receive instructions.
This has motivated me to start sharing openly. I’ll be listening. Thank you!
Good evening HG!
Glad to see that the awareness continues.
I’m ordering a shirt and would wear one of yours if you had one.
I continue to speak of you and your work every week. It’s been a true honor being part of your blog.
Thank you Snow White, I will have to whip the minions more often so they get sewing.
Good idea. I’m sure you have many ideas.
I’m ready for a new book and an “Ask Me About Evil” T-shirt. I can see the flames now.
Hi Snow White,
Where were you able to get the shirt?
Inquiring minds want to know..
Hello Kate!
How are you?
It’s been ordered, but I do not have it yet.
HG could have a whole line of merchandise.
I’m anxious to see where the awareness will be in ten years from now.
Yes HG, you are right….again. We’ll all want to attend because of you. Author, mentor, teacher. I wouldn’t miss it.
I couldn’t WAIT to find your picture on the flyer but damnit, it’s the outline of a shadow!!! I KNEW that was you. You trickster.
You see, you knew it was me, even though you cannot see me.
👤👤👤
Thanks HG!!!
Done!!!
Jolly good, T.
This event would not be complete without you.
IMO we can get amazing advice from many survivors yet only one can give us accurate advice from your side of the fence and that is YOU!
Warms my heart to know you are part of this!
Thank you Twilight. Wise words.
Thank you HG.
Woo hoo! Excellent event!! Glad yo see our favorite guest will be participating again 😊
Thanks Indy, always pleased to see you commenting here. How’s that laugh?
*laughs*
Thanks for your kind words. I poke in every now and then to keep up on your teachings and to say hi to you all!
Looking forward to hearing your voice (and an evil chuckle if we are lucky) and your wisdom on WNAAD broadcast! I’m sure many are!
HG
You are THE only reason to listen. The others are mere filler.
Fucking a, K!
LOL, HG!
K, NA,
I must swear off swearing.
Mr. Tudor’s WNAAD interview was fantastic. Always informative. His English accent sounds like an Estuary English or maybe Home Counties accent. There is an elongation and emphasis on vowels in words. Is there also a very very tiny non-English accent adopted from one of his ex-girlfriends perhaps?
Catherine Parr R
I couldn’t swear off swearing if my life depended on it.
I agree, HG’s interview was sublime and conveyed with his usual seductive panty-melting grandiloquence. He never disappoints, ever.
K
(giggle, that was my first thought, too)
Merripen
Exactly! HG is simply the best. Empaths can have a superiority complex, too.
Indeed I am. Just ask Tina Turner, she wrote a song for me about it.
HG
Ha ha ha….of course she did! Now, whenever I hear that song I will think of you. Ever presence.
“We Don’t Need Another Hero”?!?!
Ouch, HG
Ha ha.
Just kidding…”Simply the Best”…
I knew which one! 😉
Or…whats love got to do got to do with it? 🤣
Fukin oath, K. Too right.
Ha ha ha…damn straight, Catherine Parr R!
Catherine Parr
I love it when someone speaks my language.