I Want
192 thoughts on “I Want”
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/iroll,
I had a thought – what if an entitled narcissist went into a different mode for some time? I don’t necessarily mean becoming a hermit but somewhere where nobody knows her/ him, where those things like titles, clothes, amount of money make little to no difference.
It could be humbling and I’m not going to pretend and write I see many narcissists who’d willingly do anything like this. To some of them it simply happens and I saw the effects.
Just one of my many ideas – it could be therapeutic. Maybe a scout camp (incognito)?
One more question: You said you desired Victory. That was an evasive answer. What type of Victory? Victory over the Creature, Final Victory of your Master Plan in regards to your revenge over certain family members? Victory over your appliances?
Maybe I should do the interview. KIDDING.
It needs to stop raining here. Then I will go outside and I won’t ask you these questions. At least for a few days.
Victory through the conclusion of the Grand Design.
Staying tuned…can’t wait. I hope you’ll share with us.
Still evasive. I think your Grand Design has evolved a bit, and I also understand that there is no way in hell you you would divulge that.(Even if Hades himself demanded it. ) I will call it a draw. Lol
Ha ha, the GD moves forward but for obvious reasons I do not divulge its content until conclusion.
As it should be. Grand Designs lose their greatness when one has a big mouth.
HG,
Nice way to use charm to get the focus off your answer. ( The super cool comment). Which was huge, BTW. Just an observation.
Thanks you for those laay questions – answers HG.
A little respite after the royal storm:)
Thanks and everytime I will feel « insignificant or not good enough or unworthy « because of my past interactions with the Narc – I will remember that this is only their projections onto me.
Great piece I needed.
HG, can I ask you something?
Have you ever been stalked/harassed by a woman? Did that annoy you? Or did it provide you with fuel?
I have been stalked yes. No. I could draw fuel when I chose to do so. The stalking in itself does not provide fuel – someone just following me does not provide fuel but if they bombard me with texts saying I love you, that provides fuel.
Thanks HG.
But did you not get sick of it? Repulsed? Did you not consider it pathetic for her to ‘go after you’ like that? Not that we don’t understand why she became obsessed with you…
Of course I regarded as pathetic.
Would a narcissist regard an intimate appliance pathetic if she was painted white while declaring her undying love?
No.
Thanks so much for your response, HG.
Ugotit: Hg do u think an empathic mother can raise a child to be a narcissist ?
HG: That alone? No.
Is this because the ‘nurture’ factor would be missing?
The debate goes on, of course, regarding nature vs. nurture.
So what if by nature (genetically) the child was inclined to become a Narcissist but raised by an empathic mother – what might occur?
(This is assuming that the other alternative; a child who is genetically inclined to be a Narcissist and raised by a narcissistic parent would most likely turn out to be a Narcissist…)
Wanted to add one more thing. Then I’m shutting up. I was hoovered. Totally fell for it. It was malicious. All of the things HG said up there, that is the truth. My GP was different. I didn’t care about material stuff. Never have. I didn’t accept the presents. Hell, I wouldn’t even go out with him for 5 months. I guess I was a challenge. Maybe that’s why the discard and the Hoover were so mind glowingly evil. He got me in soul crushing ways. And I hate social media. I wasn’t on it when we met. Stayed off it during our entire relationship. That is probably why it lasted so long. I trusted him. What an idiot I was. Got on it during the Hoover because I wasn’t naive anymore. I listened to my gut and forced his hand. It didn’t go over well. Lol. This I WANT post is the most relevant post for me. This is the one I bookmarked. This is why I will never not go no contact. This is why I will never want another Hoover. This is why I worked so hard on myself. And why I continue to do so.
Ofc the one who cannot sustain feeling will try to manufacture it, in a tortured way. You can assist them or not.
In the film Martyrs, the protagonist crushes her torturer’s spirit by spoiling The Game: the torturer wanted evidence that she and her cult could discover an afterlife and the Martyr, once proving herself to be the authentic One, and in a way they couldn’t understand, she was – denied their twisted faith – even though she had to give her life to do it.
No one is the master of reality through cheap manipulations and that’s that. It is easy to crush and hurt others, anyone can do it, we’ve all squashed an insect, it proves absolutely nothing.
Dear w,
You did succeed. You got what you wanted. It was only temporary, as you were mortal.
I do not wish to think you might have been a greater. Odd that I would think I was superior to you, the emotional infant. You hid so many of your talents.
Was the thought fuel good enough while you planned the punishment for my treachery that you would not live to see?
You kept me bound to you till the end. But I am still alive, and I do not mourn your passing. I celebrate it.
The sun shines more brightly without you.
Perse
The keepers and givers of pain. If you’re sensitive…if your heart is soft, they’ll ensure you suffer… it’s the price you pay, denying them what they want.
Time’s up, Caroline. Feel that tingling, nauseating sensation, from head to toe? Feel it. Feel it. Feel it. Feel it. Feel it. Feel it! FEEL IT!
Can’t eat? Choking down a bit each day? Mouth dry like the desert? FEEL IT
Can’t sleep? Tossing and turning, knowing nothing you did stopped it?
FEEL IT
Where’s your sparkle? Where’s that shine? Can’t but fake a smile now?
FEEL IT
Did you cry in the shower? Was it heaving sobs? Did you scream at the heart pain I inflicted?
FEEL IT
Hands shaky? Feel unsteady, taking tentative steps?
FEEL IT
Working at taking slow, deep breaths? How long does each day and night last now? Does it feel like forever?
FEEL IT
How sad are you, how wrecked, how small, not knowing how long you’ll suffer like this?
FEEL IT
You tried so hard to prevent this… but it was always coming.
Time’s up.
Feel it. Feel it. Feel it. Feel it. Feel it. Feel it. Feel it. Feel it.
I’m the Greater who wanted you. Now I want you to suffer. So you will.
SUFFER.
SUFFER.
SUFFER.
Tough Sunday darling ? I am with you on this one – Tough Sunday.
Nice Writing thank you , I can feel the shower washing us momentarily if the insanity.
Yesterday I came to conclusion that my social skills have really lowered with the time Inapent with my Narc.
My sense of superiority and entitlement came back very strongly. For all my life I have dimmed down those attributes of mine – I feel now I am getting in conflicts with people a lot more than before.
It’s like if I don’t give a f. Anymore. I use to be nice and compliant in my adult life to be accepted but now I feel my singular nature and way of being that has me ostracized a lot as a kid are coming back.
It’s like if the infection has let my horses free to run.
Like if everything I have worked to change have been wakenup with all this time with my Narc.
As soon As I started school I was a nice but strange kid and then worked my way up socially until college – trying to make friends.
I always felt superior and entitled and f this is coming back and causing me a lot of troubles now socially and at work.
He has wakenup my Narc side – shit.
Thanks for your writing again – I fuck and miss him this morning – I miss the security I feel with him – although everything is so insecurising – go figure … :(())
I missed him today.
EM,
Understandable. Part of the process. Do not give up. It is time to break the pattern. What triggered you to think about him and miss him? There are very good tips on how to break the pattern in the book Exorcism. If you have not read it , I highly recommend it. If you have, read again the chapter about Ever-presence and how to break the pattern. It helped me a lot.
Good luck!
SuperXena it helps to post on here. I missed him because it was the weekend and that’s when I normally saw him, plus the recent nice email from him wanting to speak to me sneaked through my no contact rules and was a reminder of him. Ever presence. The two things together caused me to wish. Even though I know they are empty words a little bit of me hopes they are true.
I’m learning all the time.
I’ll have a read. Thank you.
Em,
You are in the best place to do so.
You are being honest with yourself when you admit that an e-mail sneaked through your No Contact rules . Openly admitting that shows that
you are not finding excuses for letting it happen .
You know now what the next step is: blocking him completely so nothing sneaks through . I assume that you had not blocked him there? Time to do it now? So you are not tempted ?
You answered yourself when writing :
“The two things together caused me to wish. Even though I know they are empty words a little bit of me hopes they are true.”
Unfortunately, hope is your worst enemy here…accept the fact of what he is and that he never is going to change..Feels always harsh to say it like that but that is the truth.
superXena thank you again. Yup. I let it through because I wanted to see what he had to say. Thought it harmless if he didn’t know I was reading it.
I also am about to enter another sphere in new a work venue which will regularly being us face to face again. I need resilience and I think that’s troubling me.
I read exorcism as you suggested. Brilliant thanks.
Yes I know it’s all fake, fake for me fake for her fake for all the people he comes into contact with. Ugh.
Hello Em,
You are welcome. Now that I am writing to you I reflected upon the reason why I am doing it : I want to share with you ( and others) the fact that is possible to move on and that you won’t die of leaving the narc behind.
It will be challenging for you to have to face him at your new job. Then you have a stronger reason not to harm yourself now by keeping no contact so you can get stronger until /if that happens.
I can relate to that nagging feeling of being tempted to know what he has to say. This parallel may sound silly /funny but it is like when you have an irritating little stone ( or many for that matter) in one shoe that you can’t take off.But guess what: you can take your shoe off and through away the stone(s).
With time, if you keep no contact( blocking him, not looking at his profile on FB or any other social media) ,block the mental pattern ( with something else whenever those thoughts arrive) those feelings and thoughts will be less intense and less frequent until they fade away. Some thoughts will prevail but they will prevail as such ( thoughts,memories) and will not have any emotional impact on you.
Breaching no contact in any way is counterproductive because you will still be feeding the emotions keeping you from advancing : It is like putting yourself voluntarily in a hamster wheel (finally getting exhausted).
Yes, the book Exorcism is the best one in assisting you through this process of breaking emotional/ mental patterns as you said!
I am not the type that “sends hugs” , actually I am quite straightforward sometimes but I really wish you well from the bottom of my heart and keep on!
SuperXena thank you – so helpful to have your words of support.
Filling my addiction with this site now.
I’ve resisted looking at his or her or their social media for months now and that has helped.
But god there are days where I miss him and the excitement and the promised land and envy the others.
Yes I’m pushing forward now slowly but surely while he races ahead getting more and more things living the dream.
I’m getting better and then relapse but not for long.
He’s made me feel ugly and old because now he has women 15-20 yrs younger than me and smaller, petite, beautiful, when before I felt irresistible. Difficult to fight that feeling. It makes me wonder what they have.
And then there’s the gf who’s doing up his home going on holidays meeting his family helping him with his finances attending functions and social events photographed together she photographs him.
And then there was me, an added extra, in the just for sex box, why wasn’t I the IPPS?
I know none of that’s real and he’s still cheating on her. Madness.
These man for some reasons put a lot of pressure on how we look and our physical appearances, body etc and yes I did also felt very old with my narc – who was much older than me .
Sometimes I would catch myself saying to him , you are too young for me. I go out with man my age who find me very well and I don’t feel old with them. The constant triangulation and the constant other woman around makes us feel that way.
I had to tell myself -« you are beautiful
Good that you are not going to their pages that can only increase your ET to Ramp up. I have done the same and it really did lower my anxiety level – plus I take that energy and invest it here and for myself elsewhere.
I blocked all his ex gf-
His actual ones and anyone I know that he knows . Phones and social media pages.
There will always be a younger , a slimmer, a better etc even for the younger , slimmer than us.
The journey starts here – learning to appreciate ourselves and do things for us – not them.
I have experience it now – I am attractive , intelligent etc but with Narcs that will never be Enough and there will always be a reason to get me anxious about something.
I was devalued at the same time that I lost a lot of weight and muscled up etc everyone was telling me I was radiant – even him – yet that did not prevented him from lying, cheating etc even if I was more beautiful and more in shape than when he met me .
I can relate to this I was told over and over again I’m too old and ugly no man will ever look at me I was told my height doesn’t support my weight I was 5 9 160 at the time not thin but not fat either meanwhile he was on sites devoted to larger woman liking all their pictures I was also told my vagina is so gigantic no man can possibly get pleasure from it they sure know how to stick a knife in you and twist it over and over again
What a fucker … just his dick was too smal.
Ugotit
Well I hope you told him your vagina is perfectly normal but you could see how it would appear too large for a man “hung like a hamster” and could never properly pleasure a woman.
Fuck him. Oh wait………you can’t. Hahahaha.
Hello Omj
Oh yes. Those feelings I can relate to. What is interesting to know and of great help in the recovery process ( see below article , question and the answer I got from HG) is that the way they make you feel , the fear they invoke in you of never being enough is a projection of their own fears. So what you feel( what they make you to feel) has nothing to do with how and who you really are.
https://narcsite.com/2018/05/10/why-the-narcissist-views-in-black-or-white-only/comment-page-1/#comment-188959
SuperXena
MAY 10, 2018 AT 14:55
“This then makes us feel worthless, insignificant and unimportant and returns us to a place where we must not ever go again.”
So, this is the narcissist’s defence mechanism to avoid those same feelings that have once felt by him/her (“….returns us to a place where we must not ever go again”) during childhood caused by the abuse of their caretakers?
Making others feel that way ( worthless, insignificant and unimportant) is their way of avoiding those feelings again?
So is it a projection of the narcissist’s own fears towards the person they entangle with?
HG Tudor
MAY 11, 2018 AT 16:30
Yes.
SX – I remember reading over and over again and could not grasp it – most probably because I am NC now and have some days of distance – I read it and it makes perfect sens now.
Thank you for posting this again – it really speak volume on how I was not ready to process this a few weeks ago and it helps me assess progress.
This is why I ❤️ And 🙏this blog 🙂
Omj,
I am happy that you are making progress. My own recovery process was step by step. I am glad that sharing my experiences with you help you with your own progress. Actually the only ones that fully understand those feelings of not being enough are the ones that have experienced it themselves.
They come to me now sometimes as “ emotional flashbacks”when I feel the emptiness and awkwardness he made me feel then. They are less frequent now. Significantly less intense . More like just a memory now with no emotions
Congratulations for the No Contact! It is the only way of helping the fog that blinds you slowly dissipating. It is the only way for a real recovery. Any other way does not lead to a real recovery.
Stay here…
Hello Em,
Glad to hear from you and that you are pushing forward.
I hope that what I write to you helps as some kind of comfort:
-“ He’s made me feel ugly and old because now he has women 15-20 yrs younger than me and smaller, petite, beautiful, when before I felt irresistible. Difficult to fight that feeling. It makes me wonder what they have.”
They do not really care about the age or how they look. The only thing they care about is obtaining the validation and admiration they need from the ones that provide it more intensely ( regardless of how the look or how old they are) Remember that they do not get anything in return. It is just one sided and they eventually will be replaced by others leaving them empty handed and destroyed. That is what happens all the time.The have no sense of loyalty to anyone.
-“ I’ve resisted looking at his or her or their social media for months now and that has helped.” I know it is hard but great that you have not looked for so many months. I was so tempted that I actually decided to delete all my social profiles for some time. It was the only way of keeping the temptation away as well as not giving him the opportunity of hoovering me through them.
But he hoovered me by Spotify. That was a hard one to get rid of.
-“ And then there was me, an added extra, in the just for sex box, why wasn’t I the IPPS?”
Of own experience ( 6 years as an IPPS) I can tell you that you do not have any reason to be envious about that position. They really push you to the limits. The devaluations are far more intense and frequent. I recall now that my ex’s former partner ( before me) ended up in a psychiatric institution for some weeks due to depression while she was together with him. This I know because I had numerous conversations with her ( it was me the one that contacted her) in my pursuit of finding answers when I was with him. I was completely confused by his change of behaviours. The knowledge of what happened to her was the beginning of my run way long process that took 2 years. I feel blessed that I did not stay long enough for that happening to me. But I was completely drained, eroded and exhausted . You should be grateful that you were not an IPPS!
Best wishes!
Hi SuperXena this was a wonderful message 😊 thank you so much for sharing your story too.
It kicked me back into reality and I’ve had a couple of much better days.
How terrible for you being an IPPS. I knew really that was never to be but I didn’t expect to get sucked in a second time because he promised me. I so wanted to trust him I ignored the signs until I got so ill I couldn’t think straight because of the denial and mixed messages. I thought I was the IPPS when I wasn’t. I can imagine how much worse it can be as an IPPS – because of the golden period being massive.
You are right I’m lucky. And I know really it’s all a facade and it doesn’t matter what size age or shape they are.
Thank you again. 🙂 melt downs are becoming less intense and less frequent.
I be just read the article about learnt love and starting me getting to the cause of my susceptibility which I think started with my mother and her lack of love and facade.
Hi Em,
I am glad to hear that sharing my experiences with you is helping you.
Yes, I agree with you .The post Love is a Taught Construct is triggering.
“I be just read the article about learnt love and starting me getting to the cause of my susceptibility which I think started with my mother and her lack of love and facade.”
That is how this site has helped me too to move forward. Not just understanding and learning about how and why the narcissist functions but as well many learned behaviours /patterns that I have since childhood that make me vulnerable.
I still do believe that it is possible for some to detect these coping survival strategies they adopted as a response of abuse or neglect during childhood. Some perhaps can’t even be able to do it. They are very deep rooted. They are not to be blamed. They did nit have a choice then when being a child.
But I still do believe that is possible to do it ( if you detect them) by readapting and retraining those behaviours for being less susceptible to be abused.Not easy, it requires hard work with steps forwards and backwards.
Perhaps this is just my empathic optimism and my own perspective tainted from my own childhood that makes me believe that that is possible.
I thought it was best for me to redirect that “malignant” optimism( a term used by other writers) I once had for my ex that he would change ,to myself instead.
Best wishes
I have no idea what to say, Journey. I’m mindful this is a site of sensitive empaths, like yourself.
I will try to say something, softly. I received an unwelcome visitor/I exited the situation/then my puppy dog was taken away from me. I was scared sick, searching. I finally have him back, by the grace of strangers. He’s ok.
Tx for your caring note.
Thanks for sharing- you must have been really scared for your Puppy.
Thinking about you .
Here is is disengagement post escape land.
Miss him than come him and don’t miss him.
Miss him and read old texts and miss him even less.
Shit ai think about how scared you must have been about your puppy. Glad he is back.
Thanks, doll~so glad to hear from ya. Hang in!
P.S. Weird… I swear my pup keeps lifting his paw up in middle finger mode, toward the street. (Bark-Out-Loud).
Caroline
Glad to hear you are feeling better and have your pup back. We would all be better off to just get a dog. The 4 legged kind.
Thank ya, “YA” (wag, wag). 🙂
Comment for ya below, Journey. Or somewhere…WP is so confusing. XO.
Using HG’s words, you can fuck that sky high, Caroline!
I thank my lucky stars everyday that I found his work before ever being ensnared. It was not for the lack of trying to be sure but I had no idea what I was wishing for! It will never happen now.
My heart hurts for those that were/are ensnared and dealing with the permanent aftermath. My thoughts are with you each day to give you the strength, resolve, and resilience to heal.
Thanks much, MB. I just hope what I wrote doesn’t discourage anyone from going cold NC (I tried nice NC/didn’t work at all, with the old BF). I should not have written my feelings out when I was scared and in pain… but all ok, I have my sweetie pie doggie back now.:)
Odd how my point of view has changed since reading HGs work. I watched her go through the golden period. I watched several of them in fact. I so wanted to be them. It broke my heart when I found out about her the last one. I wondered why he had been skipping around like a school boy. Now I know. Fuel. She has been the biggest provider of fuel. Never seen him pumped up quite like this. But now such a relief not to have been the IPPS. I was a DLS and that devaluation was enough to nearly break me. How must she feel. He entwined their lives, her business, her family and now he is devaluing her. How I want to reach out to her but I know it’s not worth it. We each have to find our own way out. Her golden period was the best I’ve ever seen him provide so she must have been great fuel but her devaluation and her realisation will be the worst I’ve ever seen.
Thank goodness I’m a long way down that road now.
This sounds like what I went through
Well, you know what they say, “Want with one hand….
Disturbing essay HG. Dark. The negative energy made me physically sick, crushing my faith that you can overcome the way you were created. It’s like reading the musings of a serial killer. It being an older article, I can only hope you’ve made progress since then.
It is intense to reread again MB. I imagine pain to these depths, goes to the original abuser. The one who eradicated all traces of hope and love and instilled the burden of shame and unworthiness when the child was powerless.
Now with a voice and a mission, he can retaliate against anyone who triggers those original feelings.
This is to be the outcome of the Grand Design for MatriNarc. If I was a betting girl in Vegas.
One thing that has stuck with me reading all of the work… Matrinarc became the wretched human being that she is through no fault of her own and HG now knows that. She is a wounded soul the same as he is from the application of abuse. Although his wounding was at her hand, she was unable to do better or she would’ve.
Why HG, are you unable to forgive her and appreciate the fact that she did not break your spirit and that you had the awareness and intelligence to “snip” the continuation of the cycle in the bud. (Ha Ha)
From your writing, it seems to be your POV that she actually did you a favor whether by genetics, “nurturing”, or both that made you more effective by eradicating your “useless” emotions.
This has bounced around inside my empathic brain since the beginning, I hope you will comment. I understand you are unable to put herself in her shoes, but it seems that there would be a bond shared between you as opposed to a hatred.
She deserves neither understanding nor forgiveness.
I feel that way about my mother.
And I’m sure you feel the same about yourself. I cannot imagine being ok with that. NPD is such a mystifying affliction. A subject I never get bored with learning about. Thank you for teaching us.
MB,
I understand your POV.
It is unforgivable the abuse and betray of the caretakers towards a child that are devastating and the determinant factors( apart from genetic factors) that make a person a full-blown narcissist.
And just because of the same reason, I do believe that in the case of those who are aware of their NPD and understand what and why they do :
their narcissism should not be used as their own license to abuse.
Abuse is unforgivable .No matter what.
Hello MB! Your perspective was interesting to read. I have a much different interpretation of HG’s POV towards MatriNarc.
Generally, when reading the articles and then comments from all of the readers since August 2015, the rawest and most devastatingly affected seem those by the familial narcissist caretaker – mother or father. But especially the mother who seemed from birth to have hatred and contempt for her own flesh and blood, those individuals dealing with that, I don’t think ever can forgive or see the glass half full on not dealing with the emotions they view as weak. How do you ever fully recover from that? For a mother to basically reject her own child, and continually berate, emotionally and physically abuse their own child daily to the point of stripping any shred of an individual personality that doesn’t reflect their ideals is as horrific as being a murderer. I find it unforgivable. The majority of all species it is a primal instinct for a mother to nurture and protect their young. To become in sync, from birth through the simplest means of eye contact, communication and holding to establish trust. Between birth to 5 years the blueprint for trust happens then.
As hard as some have had with co-dependent and/or highly narcissistic parents, i believe the level to which HG endured was excessively abnormal. Then a double edged sword with his father passively avoiding the treatment to him but yet being extra protective towards his younger brother and sister.
I distinctly recall HG’s answer to another reader a very long time ago, where he was asked about his reaction upon finding out his mother was a narcissist. I believe it was when he was still in his University (college years) or just after, but the way he described it, I think he experienced true grief and loss. For the realization of what was truly lost in innocence and learning about love and connection as little HG.
There was never a chance of any bond developing between these two.
Well put.
Clarence, I agree with everything you say and I certainly cannot even begin to fathom what a person with a narcissistic parent (especially a mother) has endured. It is a tradgedy beyond what any person should have to endure, especially an innocent child.
In my life, I find it liberating to forgive. The seething hatred hurts the soul and body of its inhabitant, not the target of said hatred. I would assume this to be especially true when your hate is directed toward a narcissist who actually revels in it.
I just had often wondered if HG, in his enlightened state would come to see that there was no other outcome considering whatever abuse his mother had suffered. She was that innocent child too one time.
Hello MB,
The important thing is for one to find a way to heal once they become aware. Put the work in. Put the grit in. You dig. You isolate. You experience the full pain and then you accept it happened. Then you start to move on from it. If forgiveness, for many, helps that move you along, that’s great too.
I find forgiveness overrated. Certain individuals who have hurt me will never get my forgiveness. You assume I am walking around with hate then for that individual. I am not. For me forgiveness can only happen when true amends are made against an action done to you by the wrong-doer fixing and taking accountability for what they did. An apology without the action to back it up does not suffice. To forgive means I am wiping the slate clean with someone. That I pardon the action done even if I don’t forget. That I may display my compassion and empathy towards them again. Certain acts with certain people just do not deserve that gift bestowed on them.
Another layer with the abuse HG suffered, was sexual by a relative on MatriNarc’s side of the family which at some point she became aware and DID NOTHING. So add that in to the mix. It is not the child’s responsibility to fix the parent. That is one thing that just can’t be his burden to bear is her abuse on top of what she did to him.
😊
MB
I understand your question because I asked something in a similar vein some time ago. I posed the question to other commenters why they had such compassion for HG but not for his mother who is herself a narcissist (Mid-so does not even have the awareness HG does) and may have suffered abuse also. Apparently I did not word my question as well as you have here and it was taken as me being sympathetic towards his mother. I got several replies outlining why she was hortible. Ummm…yeah, I got that down thanks and personally dont think she deserves understanding or forgiveness, but I wondered why those who showed a propensity for ‘saving’ him did not feel the same towards her or try to defend her. I wondered if it was because he was providing us with something we wanted where she of course was not, or if they just didnt want to anger him. Just wanted to let you know that you are not the only one who has wondered along these lines albeit your question was directed to HG and mine to the other commenters.
This is not directed to anyone in particular just looking for a place to jump in I know this is absurd on my part to feel this way because hg has never portrayed himself as anything but a narcissist but lately it’s been bothering me that sometimes readers show genuine concern for him but it’s not recipricated at least not that I can see it’s illogical for me to expect that it would be if he doesn’t care about those in his private life why would he care about those in a blog yet it still hurts me to witness it I really don’t understand where these feelings come from but I know it’s illogical then again maybe he does care for some but doesnt show it because he doesn’t want to hurt others but that’s illogical too because why would a narcissist care about anyone and why would he care about hurting the others if he’s a narcissist so either way my feelings are illogical
I do not care for people. I do protect assets and the level of protection varies. I have an appreciation for my readers.
Ugotit,
I’ve mentioned before that HG can’t completely leave his narcissism at the door. Surely it is toned down, but the black and white thinking is so ingrained, I have to think we are all one or the other. And of course that’s only my opinion. We may not be significant enough to classify. HG would have to weigh in on that.
And to be honest, it does hurt my feelings but I know it isn’t personal. My mama always told me that the only way somebody can’t hurt your feelings is if you let them. So, as ever, I am the one to blame. And that really is the truth in this case.
My concerns about his well being are sincere. He knows that.
NarcAngel
I think it’s because we are all protective of HG so we are “on his side” and therefore “against” her. Black and white thinking much? Ha ha
I’m with you, how can you love and protect baby HG so much and not be able to forgive her? We don’t know her or the circumstances of her upbringing, but to nurture the creation of the devil incarnate, there had to be some massive wounding to baby Matrinarc too.
I agree, there is NEVER an excuse for abusing anyone, especially an innocent child. And I HATE her for that behavior.
The forgiveness and understanding is not a gift to her, it is a gift to yourself. Although I’m pretty sure it is a gift only an empath is able to receive. It doesn’t hurt the narcissist to harbor such seething resentment, and in fact may have an edifying effect, causing them to hold on to it tighter.
Bottom line, we love HG for what he does for us and for his raw honesty. We are also not privy to the worst of his dark side so it is easy to see him as the hero and her the villain.
Fair observations.
“And I’m sure you feel the same about yourself.”
– that’s empathic naivety
Hi iroll! Was that comment meant for me? Those were not my words. Just confused.
Naive? Yes I am iroll! But in this case, I assumed HG doesn’t feel he deserves forgiveness and understanding any more than Matrinarc does. Or more accurately does not care one way or the other.
Clarece, massive thumbs up, and multiple likes to your comment re – familial narcissist caretaker…
It was epic, truthful and I just generally liked what you had to say, and the way in which you articulated this … 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Hg do u think an empathic mother can raise a child to be a narcissist ?
That alone? No.
Clarece, i’m trying to follow the chain, it’s an awkward system. sorry my comment landed in your inbox, i’m quoting MB ofc.
But to everyone: Npd is not always caused by such abuse, low-affect / low-empathy is a genetically predisposed condition that is triggered by social factors. HG’s mother wasn’t the only determining factor in his personality adaptation.
We might want to consider teaching entitlement to people as abusive, because it also contributes to npd (as well as regular narcissism). Children born with (primary?) psychopathy don’t have to be abused at all, they do need special attention to be able to adapt to society and not suffer from under stimulation.
Abuse makes all this harder to understand in many ways, because we take neurotypical empathy for granted.
Fair observations iroll
HG,
You say MatriNarc deserves neither understanding or forgiveness.
But I am curious about what you think you deserve, from your own point of view?
Do you deserve understanding? Worship? Pity?
What does HG think that HG deserves?
All curiosity,
Perse
I do not want pity, I do not want sympathy. I want understanding about my work but I do not require understanding about me.
What do I deserve? Victory.
I understand your body of work, HG. I think it’s important, and I do appreciate that you’ve been willing to share the reality with us. I’m very grateful.
I blame your mother for how you have to operate (how sweet, Caroline, a day after Mother’s Day?). I have woken up in the middle of the night, several times — wondering about my ex and you… two people with many gifts, and with mothers that are… well, *mothers.*
I think you have your victory, which will continue, HG. You have done something innovative, and it’s made a difference in understanding, to so many.
And I’m not sucking up. I’m opposed to that, inherently (really, I feel a bit of an urge to be a tad bit bratty right now, but I’ll suppress it… my doggie is licking my toes, so I’ll let it go).
Thanks for your answer. I appreciate your candor.
‘ I want understanding about my work but I do not require understanding about me. ‘
Would you prefer understanding about you, or prefer others not to have understanding about you?
I do try to understand your work, even if it is concepts that are foreign to me. Is this different from understanding ABOUT your work?
I am not surprised that you deserve Victory. As long as I’ve been here you have been working on it. I don’t know if you had the desire for it all your life, or if it is arising out of the events that started your treatment and writing on this blog. Is it this recent or has it always been with you?
I also think that your choice not to reproduce, even if for different reasons than I suggest, does break the cycle of making innocents into narcissists. I appreciate this outcome of your choice. I don’t know if you had ever considered that point, since you don’t care how your actions affect others, except in the attainment of fuel. I’ll give you kudos for it, anyway.
Understanding about me is personal and this was directed at those who know me in my private life, they do not need to understand me. My readers can do so through what I write, I have no issue with that.
My desire for victory has been longstanding.
Thank you for your kind comments.
In your private life, I know you have your walls up as you don’t trust anyone. Through therapy and your interactions here, have you wanted to explore the option to have someone truly know and understand you? To be transparent over time and see if some trust could be established?
Possibly.
HG, that’s really cool that you would consider that.
I am super cool.
Your coolness is only to be exceeded by your consistency of belief.
Clarece
How do you see that unfolding? How much, how soon, and what soecifically do you think he would have to divulge in order for someone to truly know and understand him so trust could be established?
NarcAngel,
From the spiritual perspective, until a person learns to trust themselves no one can really trust them.
Intuition comes in handy for trusting other people then.
Your questions just create more questions NA…there would be a mile long list for someone to have a presence in his life to build trust on what NOT do in order to foster a dynamic of safety and security for him (notice I did not say love). How do you foster love towards HG without eventually projecting your own wants and desires in wanting the feelings reciprocated? For him, love leads to loss of control, overbearing expectations, vulnerability, intimacy and all things he views as making someone weak, and therefore repulsive. He then gets bored and begins to devalue. So throw expectations of any kind out the window.
It can’t be a potential intimate partner.
Can’t be a doctor (he will feel he has to win in outsmarting him/her).
Can’t be someone he works with for same reason in getting competitive or feeling he needs to control ever being outsmarted.
I’d like to believe there is a portal through something HG is connected to that someone coming in could build a foundation on that and over time (a long time) become a constant in his world going back to basics. Mirror safety and security to him rather than his desired admiration which would allow him to explore any emotion without penalty. His child ego did not get the right mirroring back of a loving, compassionate, non-judgmental support system. He did not learn how to build esteem from within. He has the core wound of abandonment and shame over that.
The biggest hurdle is HG himself. He is only “possibly” interested in seeking this out. His guard and triple tracking thinking will get him paranoid. He needs to finally want that once for himself on this journey in his life.
I probably just have a case of doomed optimism where he is concerned.
What do you suggest NA?
I presume the victory to which you are referring is that of the Grand Design. Of course victory will be yours, you are the doer, not the done to.
However, you achieve victories everyday as the General to your army of empaths. You help us strategize, weaponize and then level the battlefield to give us our best chance at being victorious. I hope you consider these your victories as well. Without your work, most would never have the knowledge to GOSO their way to freedom.
Yeah, I felt that as well but again , it does seem a bit overboard and like you may have endured a hell and this is the polar shift or perhaps there is just never any closure therefore this obsession to emphasize the reality of your own personal hell. But you are not always alone out there in the dark. But don’t be too hard on yourself and for God sake, nobody can possibly know everything about everything. Takes one to know one so I guess I’m writing this for you as well as me, so I hope you don’t mind my childish views. I mean, I’d be ashamed if you had a preventable Psychotic breakdown and standby while the fuel ( and all Hope ) went up in flames
“Overboard” Mia, I read somewhere on the blog that HG has been accused of being dramatic either by other Narcs or those that have other blogs. I really do wish with everything that I have in my heart that this was true. However, as you state in your comment, it feels very raw and very real. It being sincere is what affected me so much. If I read this essay and it had been written by one of my children or anyone else I care about, my first call would be to a psychiatrist. No offense HG.
None taken, I would give you my phone to call them!!
This article has been bouncing around in my head like a pinball ever since I let it ruin my morning. Although there’s still a knot in the pit of my stomach, I am trying to move on from being stuck here in this. There should be warnings like on the memes. Ha!
I had a thought come to me that took my mind off of it thank God.
Aren’t narcissists the ultimate contagions? Not only do they feel the emotions of others, they crave them, actively seek them, and provoke the ones they think they need.
Would you be willing to share your thoughts/expertise HG?
No we are not, we do not feel the emotions of others, we are fed by the emotions of others.
I bailed, I could see where this was going…
Like a self fulfilling prophecy, these cycles continue … but not for eternity!
The best you can imagine is a vicarious relationship without emotion or spiritual bond.
“Careful when you look into the darkness! YOU MIGHT FALL IN!”
Happy Christmas HG, I’ll be praying for you!
You “feel” them as power though, correct? Is is “felt” by you, just not in the same way we feel. That’s what I meant by the contagion concept and being able to feel the emotions of others in a very real way.
No, we do not feel them. We feel power but it is not feeling the victim’s emotions.
Thank you HG
Just read this again.
Every time I tried to finish he would say ‘one last time’. I’d hear it or read it in a text so often.
But still thinking about him means I’m not free yet.
Em, still thinking about him means you cared for him. Thoughts are just thoughts, they do not define who you are. If you think of him it could just mean that this person was apart of my life for a time and I valued them.
You can be an observer of your thoughts, you do not need to judge yourself for thinking of him. Let them drift back out and focus on you, where you can. There is no set timescale, your journey is your own, it’s bespoke to you… you may not feel free yet but in truth, you are free, as you are away from the relationship and you can choose a different life, a choice that he does not really have. You will get there …
Quasi
Thank you so much. That’s such a lovely gentle way to describe my experience and thoughts. It’s difficult to separate thoughts of what he portrayed and what was actual. I still have cognitive dissonance from time to time. Helped me to see I have come a long way. I’m fortunate to be where I am. Thank you…
This is frightening – I am still coming to grips with the fact that my ex husband was a narcissist. I believe he may be between mid-range and Elite? Not sure – corporate high achieving, extremely wealthy CFO of big company. Clever and manipulative but childlike in emotions and home environment. He tried to destroy me in the divorce and yesterday found out another huge betrayal with regards to a money pay-out. he lied to me, mine and his lawyer to prevent me from getting access to money. He hid money in divorce, lied to everyone about me and was cruel and callous in a way I have never experienced before. I can’t no matter what you write here get my mind around this evilness. He remarried less than two years after divorce and I feel so much for new wife, but kept my silence and I know she would never believe me. To his family, I was smeared and after twenty years no-one questioned him or asked my side of the story. Except for one cousin who pieced the lies together and apologized to me. She even refused to attend his second wedding. Would an Elite abandon a child created out of wedlock? and pay off the mother of the child with a car? What type of a man would do that???? He told me he had a one night stand with said woman and she has no proof – all lies as I later found out. Child looks like my son. He still has control over me as we have two children together and he pays child maintenance to me – Thank God the children live with me permanently – as soon as I could, I left with them and made a new life for ourselves, but he is still in their lives and there is nothing I can do about it. That control he has is painful and the strength I have to muster to not lash out at him is so so very difficult to maintain. Don’t you ever get tired of this? These games and evilness? Or is that merely a stupid, ridiculous question?
I want you to win, HG!
An ex said to me once, “how does it feel to want?”
HG,
As I was reading this post and absorbing the words and the tone, I got a sense of the emptiness that must be inside you.
It makes me feel sad that you have something inside you like that. I’m probably giving you fuel by mentioning sadness. I hope that somehow you can try to see past the fuel and realise that someone would prefer that you didn’t feel that emptiness.
By wanting all of these treacherous and dark things, you’re missing out on so many other things. You’re missing out on seeing the beauty and benevolence in the world. You’re missing out on the warmth of being able to rely on someone because you share a real bond with them, a bond that’s based on trust. You’re missing out on being the authentic and valuable individual that you have the potential to be.
You could have all those things HG, and you wouldn’t have to tear down other people to have them.
WiserNow, I second that! We can fuel HG with some hope!
What I hope is for HG to reach a point where he doesn’t need fuel for his own personal fulfillment.
Regardless of that though, I hope he will continue to be a beacon of light and logic for many.
Thank you HG!
Funny bloggers … I can feel that some here want to « save « HG or want to give him intentions – good or bad. That is what happen with a crowd full of empaths !
He has been telling straight and answering all of the bloggers questions about the state of affairs about him but still I find that there is a virtual collective desire, energy to convert him !!
I am sure his treatment and progresses are documented by the good doctors and that will help maybe establish guidelines and approach with the disorder. This the real plus value , plus the blog.
Very selfishly – I like that he is approachable and reasonably available – not looking forward the day where like many others it will be written on the door ‘ sorry MR Tudor do no longer offer private session, due to the volume of demands »
I do like and appreciate HG a lot , I would be crying in my bed now or in my Narc’s bed- but instead I understand what is happening to me and what has happened. I am 4 Days NC – That would have never happened without him. Each minute NC brings me to reality out of the illusion.
Lol, OMJ!!!
T… lol! But its true. He dosent need nor require any kind of saving. He is who he is and that should be respected. Just admire from afar.. There is real danger in that kind of emotional thinking. Danger Will Robinson LOL!
Julie, I whole heartedly agree with you. The only ass I can save is mine.
I’ve always respected HG.
I’ve learned more of who I am from him than any therapist. The rabbit hole is a deep one.
I notice today that tensions are high. Maybe because it’s mother’s day?
T… good afternoon! Yes i too have learned more here than my therapist. Go straight to the source and you’re more apt to find answers. That rabbit hole is indeed a deep monster. I’m just going to stay in my own lane and be a wallflower and read read read!! IM still working on reading revenge. Some things upset me so much that I read that I have to take mini breaks. Its just creepy how they all say & do the EXACT same things and I cannot for the life of me still fully comprehend how they can be so cruel. I get it , but I guess its because I could never do some of the crap they do. I dont lie, I’ve TRIED to dish it back out to my ex narc but I guess thats where we were diffrent… I felt awful at the end of the day. (Eyeroll) Do I an “A” for effort? LOL
Yes, you get a definite A!!!
I agree it’s really freaky that they all act the same. The same lines…lies, etc…
But that’s a good thing! Because now we can spot them sooner. And walk away sooner.
T… absolutely! Im learning what to look for. Actually have a date this weekend and he is TOO nice so Im wondering whats wrong with him or Ive just been narc’d so many times I cant recognize a decent one and mistake it for pending doom. Guess we shall see! Lol
I think it is just our empathic nature that projects a want for HG to have another possible life… probably more so as we are very grateful to him for what he has taught us and helped us to see, it’s natural for us to want him to have happiness, love etc …but this is our perspective, as we can not imagine being able to tolerate what He tolerates daily.
But through all of his articles and interviews it has presented to me that he has expressed no desire or wish to do so, it works for him. He has a different and individual perspective, and I respect that.
Quasi, I agree.
Hi Quasi,
You are right that as empaths we are very grateful to HG for what he has taught us and helped us to see. He’s a great teacher.
And by the way, my comment wasn’t about wanting HG to have “happiness and love”. As an empath, I don’t always have happiness and I certainly don’t have love very often either.
If you read my comment again, I was talking about the soulless emptiness that his kind have that causes them to “want” all the horrible things he’s written about in this post.
By all means be a fan of HG and thank him if you like. I can understand that. But be careful about confusing what he writes about with an acceptable “perspective”.
After reading things like:
“I want you to scream and realise that nobody is coming. I want your world to implode. I want to know how much you hate me.”
..and this:
“I want to see you isolated. I want to see the hope in your eyes so I can extinguish it. I want you alive because then there always remains future possibilities.”
..not to mention this:
“I want you to understand that dreams can be crushed. I want you to never know the truth. I want you to be buried alive by my lies. I want the heavy, dead weight of your guilt to pin you down.”
..please spare me the self-righteous “He has a different and individual perspective, and I respect that.”
If you respect the mind-fuckery and emotional abuse that goes into wanting to bury someone alive with lies or wanting to crush someone’s dreams and make their world implode, then good luck to you.
Just don’t expect everyone else to.
Hi wisernow…i agree with your post and theres where ive found i have to be careful. Its so easy to lose sight of the fact of what youre dealing with despite the fact HG has supplied us with a mountainfull of information saying what he is. I think bc hes helping us its easy to forget but in real life out there no you cant respect that perspective of “i want” bc its destroying lives. If you were to ask HG’s past victims theyd tell you. HG is telling you very clearly in this blog what he and other narcs do to their sources. Theres no candy coating it. I like and respect what HG has done here but no i dont respect how he and other narcs operate outside in the real world using and destroying good people. I can see where the disorder stems from and i feel sympathy bc i can relate but i do so from a place of caution not slipping into the stance that its a different more effective way of being because narcissism isnt its a personality disorder and its messed up.
Thank you Narc Affair. I appreciate your comment and the way you understand what my comments are about.
I think many people here are very quick to jump to HG’s defence when they feel that he is being criticised or spoken about in a non-complimentary way. It doesn’t seem to matter that I have repeatedly said that his posts are very helpful and insightful and that I am grateful for them. HG’s “fans” only see that HG needs defending… 🙄 …so, “obviously”, the knee-jerk reaction is to criticise or devalue the dissenter… ha! how’s that for black and white thinking??
It’s funny, I’ve seen comments here where an empath is given a “high-five” when their self-protective dormant narcissistic elements are awakened and come to the fore. But, oh no, heaven forbid that the same narcissistic elements shown by a different empath dare to threaten anything that the same commenters happen to hold as “sacred”… Dear me, that needs to be shut down, or smeared, asap!
Oh well, so be it.
HG IS a great teacher and I respect his teachings. I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. At the same time, I don’t feel the need to apologise for my sincere thoughts and opinions or to justify or explain my views in an attempt to appease anyone.
HG’s posts are strong and, and as you say, they are not candy-coated. In response, I don’t see why readers would need to candy-coat their comments or “play nice” or pretend that the “evilness” is somehow ok because HG is such a great guy.
Hi wiser now,
Thank you for responding to my comment, I appreciate your constructive advise. I wrote my comment in haste and believe I should have elaborated… which is odd for me as I most often over explain when I’m giving an opinion. On reflection I should have used the term “I” rather then “we”, I will construct my comments more carefully in future.
I feel I understood your comment and I liked it, I tend to like the majority of your posts tbh.
When I spoke of happiness and love they were my words, likely due to them being my experience, as I’m very fortunate to know them.
When I read HG’s articles and books I try to do so with as much openness as I can, to try and understand another perspective/ view that is completely opposite to mine. I can’t fathom feeling like this or having these thoughts.
When I say I respect HG, I mean it, I respect him as a person that is ( in this face of being HG and not his personal life / world) being open and honest, so I can try to understand the mind of a narcissist. I find it invaluable to “know my enemy as it were”.
For me there is a stark difference between acceptance and approval, I accept and respect HG for who he is to us, here in this forum and in this regard. I do not know him in real life and I’m sure I hope not to. In no way do I approve of the abuse of which he speaks in this article, just as I do not approve of the abuse that he endured. I do not approve of abuse full stop.
But I do find articles like this very helpful to try and understand for a minute what can be in a narcissists mind. It is disturbing but this is because I can’t imagine it from my perspective. I need to read things like this to help me understand. I like the writing style in this one as it makes me think more, it opens up a whole different reality to me. That is why I’m here.
I do not expect anyone to have the same view as I, for it is my own. Nore would I ask them to.
How my comments are read is a persons own perception and by participating in the blog I understand that I need to be open to feedback, I also welcome it.
I do like to hear the opinion of others as it helps me shape information and balance it. So thank you for sharing yours with me, I appreciate it.
Thank you for your reply Quasi. I like to hear your thoughts and opinions too, as well as those of others. It helps me very much in shaping my own views and behaviour.
You are free to respect HG and to think of him and his posts in any way you wish, as are other readers and commenters here.
After reflecting on our conversation here and on the thoughts you and others have shared, I have come to see how my own thoughts need to change a little. I believe I need to read HG’s posts in future and refrain from addressing my comments about what he writes directly to HG in a personal way about “his” own self. Instead of commenting directly to HG as though his posts are about “his” behaviour, I will address my views to “narcissists in general” or to “his kind”.
This way, HG can write about any kind of evil he wants to and all he will hear from me is applause for his sharp insights. I will reserve my views about his specific character and state of mind. The object of this blog is to keep learning and to reinforce knowledge and self-protective defences. The object is not to “fix” HG lol 🙂 (..as if that’s a viable proposition anyway? How could you ever “fix” a masterpiece?!? …just kidding HG!)
Anyway, thanks again for your comments and opinions Quasi. There are no hard feelings from me about anything. I look forward to reading your future comments and the comments of all other readers too. All the best to you 🙂
Further observations, no direction just to anyone who cares to read this… – my thought to be succinct ( rushed) was coriginal comment was not meant to be offensive, or in approval of the thoughts in the article.
I Just re-read the comment again and where i said “ he has a different and individual perspective and I respect that” this was in direct correlation to the statement I made just before it, – ie- he is not going to change and has no wish to do so.
Its not for me to advise anyone to change who they are, or imply that they could. I was just expressing my acceptance of his stance/ what I have read and what he has advised in interviews.
I have reflected abit more about the respect I feel for him.
If I didn’t respect him I wouldn’t really seek his advise, listen to his advise or follow it .. I wouldn’t read the blog or his books. I wouldn’t be where I am now, I don’t believe I would feel as strong as I do, I don’t believe I would feel whole quite yet.
I believe HG’s advise has shortened the time in which I have mentally tortured myself post discard, it sped up my journey back to myself…. I could have easily slipped back to contact with my narcissist, I could be in a very different place now, I could have lost everything that was important to me. So yes I thank him, very much so…
I am aware that there is a view, that to praise HG is to give him fuel. I don’t often directly, publicly praise HG. But I did with this article as I was very much affected by the way it was written and the content, a soul laid bare.
As I commented on the post I was reading the other comments and I chose to respond to a few with a view also, as I do this more often then ask questions directly of HG, or praise him.
As helping people is purely a bi-product of what HG means to achieve with narcsite and YouTube etc.
Possibly giving him very low potency ( written / from tertiary source) fuel is a bi- product of my praise for him. And to be honest I don’t give a …. if this gives him fuel or not. It would not be the reason I comment on his work. I say what I feel and think, possibly being too honest most of the time, but again that is just what I do.
I will always credit someone for work I believe to be good. This article describes his thoughts processes, not necessarily real life actions, it is very disturbing but I felt this to be important to jolt me to a true realisation of the thought processes of a narcissist.
I also appreciate the overall interaction on the blog, I like being made aware of other views and perspective’s and having questions asked of me, as it makes me think more and reflect.
So I thank all the bloggers also, I feel I have learnt a great deal from you all. X
Hi wisernow…ty for your reply. You know its interesting bc from the time i started on this blog to now ive gone thru many phases. When i first came across a utube interview with HG i was very angry. Angry at my narc, HG and other narcs out there more or less narcissism as a whole.
Then i joined the blog and started to learn the whys to narcissism. Why they behave the way they do and i felt a tremendous amount of sympathy. I still do have that sympathy but its guarded. Back then i was worried bc i felt the blog was making me too empathetic towards my narc and mother. Then as time went on i learned more and realised my own black and white thinking. You can be sympathetic towards someone but also have firm boundaries and use caution with them.
I feel sympathy for HG’s upbringing bc his mum sounds like a real douchebag class A biotch but the fact he has narcissism would make me cautious.
I think its so easy to lose sight of that and understandably bc youre dealing with HG the one we know on here not the one out there triangulating people and devaluing. Ive had enough of these sorts in my life to know the damage they cause.
The HG on here i adore and respect but i dont respect the narcs out there hurting people and sucking the very souls out their victims. Leaving them broken and ruined. The letters to the narcisdists prove that.
When i hear that narcissism serves them well or its a more effective way of living thats where my boundaries draw up and no i dont agree to that mind set.
I sympathise that narcissism is a very difficult disorder to treat and i do believe that but does that excuse not getting behavioural modification therapy? No it doesnt. Yet i can see where someone with npd would struggle to do so bc they really do think their narcissism is an advantage and the way to live life.
This doesnt take away from the fact im deeply grateful to HG and admire his works. I do.
He himself has taught us thru his works and his own comments that his kind are to be avoided as much as possible and with caution. Its naive to think a narcissist is harmless and you can trust them bc you cant. This blogs an exception but out in the real world is different. To think otherwise is throwing all of the knowledge here out the window.
Im glad you speak your mind and dont candy coat bc if you cant be your true self youre basically living a facade like a narcissist. Stand up for what you believe in and own it 👍
A very honest and constructive post.
Thank you once again Narc Affair. You’ve explained this particular situation very well and you have also encapsulated my train of thought from earlier comments here.
Thank you for being understanding and broad-minded and willing to acknowledge things from someone else’s point of view. This is one of the beautiful, kind and life-affirming things that empaths do and I appreciate it <3
Ty HG 🙂
Heck yeah! I hardly know ya HG but I feel like some lines get crossed and we are going to nag with you as you let it all out.
It’s important for us to accept responsibility lest we lose the woods amongst the trees. Either way, this is helping me somehow I’m sure. The why however is still a mystery.
I may need to go back to Narcissist 101 so I have a better idea what the hell you are saying half the time! It’s not you, it’s me. I have to read stuff like 100 times now before I get it….
WiserNow,
What heartfelt sentiments you shared with HG. As empaths, some of us have really grown to care about him & his well-being. I even take offense when others attack him via their own Projection. Geez, I guess you could call me a “loyal Empath reader.” He’s my most favorite Narcissist. Wait, did I just say that?!?
I’ve been reading his blog for about 5-months now. What I’ve been able to discern is that from childhood abuse (HG, correct me if I’m wrong) he developed coping mechanisms and those manifest today as highly abusive & manipulative behaviors. They’re permanent, untreatable. When we say we want him to get better, he ‘understands’ what we’re saying but he doesn’t internalize it. He can’t. But because of who he is, he’s in a very unique situation to help us. Really, how benevolent is that??? 😌
I loathe his treatment of his “appliances” but he is who he is. I feel such compassion for his victims.
I recently asked HG why he’s doing this, helping us in the way he does. His response: “To learn.” Well, aren’t we all here for the same thing? It’s a symbiotic relationship. He’s just on the other end of the Empath/Narcissist spectrum from us (as he explains). An excuse for his behavior? Oh hell no. I just thank my Father in heaven that I’m not entangled with him. And HG would be the first person to agree.
69R
Hi 69R,
Thank you for your comment and for sharing your views about the mixed and not-so-simple feelings we have about HG.
I guess as an empathic person, I do actually feel motivated to “fix” him even though my logical side knows his narcissism is part of who he is. And I also know that as a greater, his insights about his kind are particularly valuable to his readers.
I think my views about wanting him (and narcissists in general) to change their dark behaviours stem from knowing first-hand how much damage and pain they can inflict.
Their victims suffer from depression, anxiety, complex-PTSD, physical illnesses and it can even drive them to suicide. Then there is the damage they inflict on their families as well as the life-changing effects on careers and financial situations.
Apart from all that, I also see the emptiness and bleakness in a post like this one and I do actually feel a heartfelt sadness and “heaviness” about it.
It makes me feel terrible that people like HG and others that I know personally think in ways like this and carry out such hateful manipulations to purposely hurt other people.
It’s an awful, joyless, unfulfilled way to live, both for the narcissist and for those around them.
Lots of empathic projection here. He has no need for these things so your energy is wasted. Feel sad for his victims, not for him, he’s just fine.
Hi Jess,
How can you be so sure that “he’s just fine”?
Is it because narcissists have a carefully manufactured facade that looks like they’re fine? Is it because narcissists wear a mask that doesn’t show how they really feel? Or is it because they look “normal” while plotting a manipulation to gain fuel in order to keep the creature at bay and to avoid the abyss and feelings of oblivion?
Does that sound “just fine” to you? It doesn’t to me.
After reading “I want”, the last thing I would have assumed is that narcissists feel “just fine”.
WiserNow I know that he’s fine bc he says so and dismisses projections by us that he needs more connection.
Fine is subjective.
He is fine by his narcissistic definition and not by our empathic one.
HG is anyone in your family a greater besides you? If so, who?
No.
Heartbreaking
HG, I wonder, are greaters always malignant?
Yes, but not all the time.
Such a nice answer(s), haha. Thank you HG!
Yes, quite the same with empaths not always being benign. Far from it, actually.
Well done. Than you HG
HG
Does he despise me for escaping him? (1 yr soon), only I’m receiving messages that say he knows he doesn’t deserve to but he’d like to talk to me….is that going to be punishment or something else? I’m planning on ignoring but oh how this one nearly pulled me back in. What’s the motive?
He did at the time of your escape. Does he now? Unlikely, he will be trying to gain fuel from you and perhaps resurrect your Formal relationship. Ignore and also ask yourself why is he able to message you? Your no contact regime needs attention.
Thanks HG. Yes I’ve been ignoring this old email address he suddenly resurrected telling myself it’s not like an app or text, he won’t know I’ve read it so where’s the harm.
But it’s made me curious. Mind you it took him a year to even put my name at the top and to construct something that resembled a civil request – rather than messages like……..’talk?’ Why did it take so long for him to write in a reasonable way. He’s an intelligent man.
But it’s not about why he’s doing what he’s doing but why I am I emotional thinking again and why am I letting the mail through.
I’m blocking him from this new route. Again.
I think I’m still a bit addicted.
Thank you for the nudge and reminder HG.
This is how it already feels to be put through the sunny, Golden Period just to be devalued and discarded with yesterday’s rubbish. We are hooked into falling madly in-love, and made to feel as if our sentiments are returned above, and beyond. Then, we are hated to the same extreme, and brainwashed into thinking that we were the ones who are at fault for this love’s demise. Despite our incomprehensible trauma from this sick game, the Narcissist wants to still further crush us until we are emotionally and mentally paralyzed. You are like a big can of RAID.
If you really care about your authenticity then I strongly suggest admiting that “We are hooked into falling madly in-love, and made to feel as if our sentiments are returned above, and beyond.” is lying to yourself. “We” are not made so much to do it, as we want to do it.
“We” (non-n) are there too, right? So if you fall over a cliff because somebody projected a garden for you there, then even when you are led by the hand you should be watching your steps, lest you don’t get lost on your way.
“We” are not children any more. “We” should have our eyes open, and not let our wishful-princess-thinking get into the way of our lives. Too good to be true? It probably is.
Even if “we” meet another “we” (an empath) – do you really think they wouldn’t hurt you for sure? They could very well! In those kinds of r/ships one adapts the narcy role very often, so it may not be as harsh as with a malignant narc, but it is quite sure to come up.
I know this sounds harsh, yet so can be reality. Illusion as well.
Your spiked thong must be shoved too far up your *ss this time, O’ wise one.
Incidentally, I do not find your comment harsh, at all. I find it incredibly stupid, self-righteous, judgemental and arrogant.
One cannot judge another’s authenticity concerning this particular subject without knowing their entire life story concerning the depths of Hell from that which they climbed out, from infancy, and onward. Actually, before infancy it all began, since at the time of birth, I was born with severe alcohol withdrawals and delirium tremors from mommy guzzling down bottles of Vodka while she was pregnant with me.
Furthermore, as a Scapegoat, I was groomed to find Narcisstic Behavior as non-malignant, but rather, very familiar and normal. It was all I knew until I began studying what NPD truly was and how I had been subjected to this all of my life, including sexually, psychologically, and physically tormented.
The reason why Narcissists are universally known as being dangerous (duh) is because of the skillfully placed masks in which they wear to cover their true diabolical selves in order to lure their victims into their webs in the first place.
Oh, and btw, when I saw the Red Flags in the Narcissist relationships I was involved in, and I began to actually understand them as not being “normal” or healthy, even though I had already been hooked and had Stockholm Syndrome due to such intense familiarity, it was, I, who left these Narcissists.
In fact, the (now married) Somatic Narcissist still contacts me, though blatantly I ignore him. The other Narcissist, whom I discarded, is off playing “the victim” somewhere (probably crying into his Enabler’s apron), and the third Narcissist is dead.
You cannot judge someone else’s authenticity. You don’t even know me, let alone understand my very personhood.
LOL.
I think I have picked up some of my mums sayings … I’m always saying to my toddler “I want, doesn’t get”.
Although I feel with you HG, you have the ability to get everything that you want!
I really like the writing style in this article, as I reader I found it emotive, with chills down my spine! It also makes me thankful that I met a victim mid ranger and not an elite greater! I’m also feeling very fortunate to have been a shelf ipss and not an IPPS. Counting my blessings that lessons were learnt without completely destroying me, as I think would have been the case if I was a IPPS.
Brilliant article HG.
Thank you.
I love how polite you are, makes me smile .. just saying
That is insane. I am sure you don’t go all that far and that is the extreme that is portrayed here.
I am sure people around them pay for it too and they torture them to let all that hatred out !
Omj I’ve experienced most of it. Pulled me up with a jolt to read this again. Perfect timing.
Hello Omj,
Not really. They do unfortunately go to the extremes sometimes.It depends if you as one of the major sources of supply/fuel ( as the IPPS)are
perceived by them to be intentionally frustrating and withholding. This malignancy is their way of punishing you for not being compliant ,submissive, docile, admiring and adoring as he expects you to be in view of their uniqueness, omnipotence ,special entitlement superiority and brilliance.
Is their way to fill up the gap between what he feels he is entitled to and the reality of what it really is. There is a direct correlation: The wider the gap is, the higher the degree of malignancy.
Hi SuperXena!
I missed you! I know, I know, I am a bad empath for now for not responding to your gazillion questions but if you read my comments I hope you can make out more or less what I wanted to say then.
One day, you will get the booklet from me, I promise!
Oops, no offence SN but I don’t have the slightest idea of who you are that has missed me. I do not know either what booklet you are talking about?
None taken! My nickname used to be different but you did ask about 10 questions (with many sub-questions), so I just wanted to let you know that your answers may arrive one day!
I simply don’t like to break promises of answers when I care about their subject.
That is a very good explanation !! Thank you
Thank you Omj and your welcome!
A powerful reminder indeed . It will always be.
Every single time I read this beautiful but yet macabre darkness brings me back to reality with one single stroke…
Yes I agree. Superxena
Hello EM,
Yes and perhaps it is valuable to know this for those who are still entangled with one of them and wish to be in the position of the IPPS thinking that the grass is greener on the other side.
To put it bluntly: there is absolutely no grass on the other side..not at all.
Well, maybe it’s time for gardener IPPS then!
SN,
Very hard to visualise something growing when you harvest on infertile soil.
Unless of course you have a booklet about fertilisers being the only problem that that would only be applicable to just exactly infertile soil and not the issue in question…
I did not mean to suggest to you to do it, SuperXena. There may be people with more vivid imagination and more advanced visualization skills. That’s all.
“Those who say it can’t be done are usually interrupted by others doing it.” James Baldwin
SN,
I understand you did not suggest that as I was not referring to me in particular.
“There may be people with more vivid imagination and more advanced visualisation skills.”
I do not think that imagination has to do with any skills.
You see, that is the beauty of the mind. The mind is free to visualise, fantasise,imagine, dream, hope and wish as much you will. There are no limits there. Just be aware of how much of what you want in your vivid imagination differs with what actually is before you get delusional.
I rather stick to facts. I have been there ,so I know what I am talking about.
Sometimes what you want ( in your imagination) is something that you really do not need.
Of course if I see that there is some potential or fertility on the land I want to harvest…there will be no limits there. But not all harvests are for every soil.
“You see, that is the beauty of the mind. The mind is free to visualise, fantasise,imagine, dream, hope and wish as much you will.” No, SX.
I am free to that. My mind is my tool.
SN,
That is exactly what I have stated. But what you imagine, hope, fantasise etc.with your mind ( which is free) does not necessarily match with the reality of what it is.
….it seems you just made a little word salad of what I stated….
SuperXena, brilliant reply. Made me smile. A good analogy and a reminder not to go down the road of envy because there is nothing there. I remain focused on my recovery.
Hello Em,
Thank you. I am glad it made you laugh. Harsh truths but good reminders.
Stay strong in your recovery!
Best wishes
PS. I’ve read your rules of oversight, but my question is: is a psychiatrist, a therapist, overseeing this blog? Who oversees who you block or don’t block? Do you have favorite posters? Chicks or men you prefer? I ask because so Stines you come off as a racket. As in crime boss.
I do not block anybody.
Do I have favourites? No, there are certain posters I have an added respect for as a consequence of their behaviour and observations, they bring additional value to this place.
Chicks or men? In what context? Here?
I find your logic strange. You sound like you need a hug. I suggest you find a squeeze box.
Or find the unsubscribe link to stop the assault on the in box
And me? I want you to realize that your never ending posts are becoming more and more tedious. I read every 6th one maybe the tenth. Most of the time I just delete them as the pile up in my inbox as it’s the same me, me, me over and over again. I’m leaving you behind and getting well. What are you doing?
Well no wonder you reach that erroneous conclusion if you only read so many of them.
Dying. Again. You are amusing today . I understand that you are not interested in changing. No, I am amending that statement. I think that you are not interested because it will involve awakening and dealing with things that are just too much for you to face. I do believe this site has changed things a bit for you. You have answered comments/questions with patience and grace, and your tone is different than it was in the beginning. Don’t misunderstand, I’m not forgetting what you are. I’m just wondering if it is actually easier for you to live a life where you don’t ever have peace within yourself than to try and face The Creature and defeat it. I refuse to give it a gender. That would be giving it power. It deserves none.
Moira, what is HG doing you ask?
Well for one, he’s helping thousands of people come to grips with the dismemberment of their lives; what the hell just happened, an explanation of who did it, and how to extricate themselves from it for the last & final time.
On a personal note, today marked my 100th day No Contact from the Narcopath. Even though I am a resilient person, I could NOT have made it this far without HG’s help & that of my very skilled trauma therapist. I remember clearly the day I discovered HG—1/31/18. That’s the day I began crawling out of the quagmire.
Secondly, you’re, “leaving HG behind and getting well.” Who says HE’s not? He’s traveling his own journey and it doesn’t look a thing like yours.
Other readers have gone on the attack, just as you have. It’s simply Projection on your part. I hope that is something you will address on your new journey to wellness.
Best of luck to you.
69Revolver
Great post and I agree. He is what he is, but he has assisted in the healing of more people being what he is than most of those stuck in anger who claim to be getting well and moving on while availing themselves of his information.
69Revolver
Truth or falsity
This blog and HG has helped much in clearing the delusion and that is a TRUTH !
liked your post.
Moira, your blog helped clarify that point for me as well 🙂
so all good!
I want to thank you HG again 🙂
Agreed. I think he has helped a ton of people too. Myself included. I wasn’t judging in my earlier comment. It was really an honest question. It isn’t any of my business really. I probably wont give too many details of my crap on here either. It’s just not my way. I am proud of the work I have done on myself to understand why it happened to begin with, and will continue to come to this site so I don’t get complacent.
I will never unblock, nor do I want a Hoover attempt. I don’t understand the fascination with them, nor do I understand why a lot of people seem to want one. Pardon the misunderstanding if that isn’t the case. It just gets talked about. A LOT.
Of all the blogs that have been written by you..this truly stopped my breath and made me sit bolt upright. I never really realized until now what’s really behind the mask.
Blondie,
HG writes other blogs as well? Could you point me to them?
Also, what’s under the mask… Probably not what you fear anr what is being presented to the outer world, but it takes time to let it sink in.
All the more reason to want to win. To beat the horror of it all down to the ground.
Or find a way to completely escape ever being ensnared again.
I have no way of knowing if I ever can, because I’ll always be looked at as an appliance by him.
And it’s terrifying. And exhausting to always know he’ll always be plotting against me. Even doing thing’s I cannot prove.
It’s a fucking nightmare. It’s like a race to always stay one step ahead.
Again?!
Holy hell. Thank God I was only involved with a Midranger.
Yikes. Me too, 69Revolver! I realize that I got off pretty easy when I read stuff like this. There were some fun times – a lot of laughs. It could have been way more fun, and that is what I found so confusing. Why mess up something that could have been great fun rather than just occasional fun? I understand why now but in the thick of it I sure did not.
“Muffled giggles”