The Stare
The eyes feature prominently in an engagement with another person. You look into someone’s eyes to read them, to allow them to read you, you look away from someone in order to convey certain emotions, you fail to meet somebody’s gaze to convey others. I have written about the eyes of our kind previously but let us turn to a specific element of the use of eyes in the narcissistic dynamic and that is the stare.
Ordinarily, staring at another person is considered to be rude and ill-mannered, although it may denote fascination and even infatuation, but even that stare from a besotted admirer can be regarded as rude, never mind the unending gaze of a passer-by who cannot believe what he or she is witnessing. The stare when deployed by our kind takes on a different application altogether and it manifests at different times during your engagement with us.
- The Stare in Seduction
It is not used by all of our kind, but if you have been subjected to it, you will know it and you will remember it well. It was the time when those brilliant blue eyes locked with your own eyes and stared deep inside of you. Those flashing emerald eyes appeared transfixed as they stared at you. The rich brown eyes which seemed to melt as they gazed at you wavering. Whatever colour our eyes are, when you first received that seductive stare, the colour seemed to become brighter, the light shone in them and the intensity of our gaze was immense. It was not so much as being looked at, but rather an event in itself. Our steady stare was unusual as you probably had not experienced it from anyone else previously. You wanted to look away, torn between a sense of discomfort but the mesmerising quality of our eyes kept you looking back into them.
At that moment, our relentless gaze told you that you and only you mattered. There was nothing else of consequence in the universe. The background drained away, the surrounding sounds became muted and all distractions were removed. We wanted to show you that our devotion to you was beyond anything else. Only by allowing us to stare at you for such a long time were we able to convey the depths of our love, the vastness of our desire for you, the sheer scale of our need to be with you. Time slowed and then stood still, your skin tingled from the experience of this tantalising stare. Your breath caught in your lungs, your face seemed to flush and the wave of addiction washed across you, sending a shiver up and down your spine, around your neck and twisting your stomach. In that instant we became your universe as we showed you the world in our eyes.
Yet, what you really looked on as those two eyes continued to bore deep into you, was yourself. We commenced this engagement by knowing that to stare at you for an unconventional length of time would make you feel both uncomfortable and captivated so that you would then show us what was in your eyes. You would reveal to us your desire, your love, your hopes, your wants and your dedication. All we did was mirror back at you what you showed to us, amplified through the auspices of the mimicry for which we have become known. In that moment as we held your gaze from across the table, or after that kiss, or as we lay on top of you, we showed you yourself and thus sowed the seeds that caused you to fall in love with us, but really it was with yourself. That is why your love became something beyond anything that you had ever experienced before. That is why it was deep, powerful and absolute, because your subconscious saw what it wanted to see and this fired-up powerful and immense responses in you.
The world whirled in our eyes, your world. We offered limitless possibilities through the promise we mirrored back at you and by keeping you in this gaze we told you that we wanted you above anything and everything else. We wanted you. We wanted you. We wanted YOU.
- The Stare in Devaluation: Neutrality
In ‘Why Does He Seem Like A Different Person’, I explained about the stranger setting where the person who once lit up your life, becomes like a stranger, almost robotic. This is a change which occurs as the devaluation begins. It is not always present as some of our kind move straight into the dark abuses of the devaluation from the off, but there is a precursor to this when the person who once walked in with a cheery smile and a kiss, just enters and sits down, devoid of any prevailing emotion.
If you experience this, then you may also experience the stare at this juncture. This will be a hollow gaze which is accentuated by the blank expression that accompanies it. It is not a look of confusion or misapprehension; it is not a look of dimwittedness but is instead the empty stare of an empty person. You are looking at the void that exists within all of our kind. This represents the crossroads. The seductive stare glowed, fizzed and shone with the fabricated positive emotions which would cause you to respond with positive fuel. That has gone. The darkness of the devaluation has not yet commenced and its drawing of the negative fuel. Instead, you are looking at the in-between. The eyes which are devoid of warmth or hatred, empty of passion or malice, just a blank stare which conveys the void within.
This will cause you to become confused. It will have you ask whether everything is alright and have you wondering what has happened. You will be mystified as to where those mesmeric and scintillating gazes have gone. Why are you no longer looked at with that piercing and uplifting look? Where have we gone? If we had a soul, it is as if it has been sucked from within us, leaving only this husk behind. You cannot complain that you are being badly treated, since no abuses have yet been deployed against you. This empty and robotic stare is a warning of what is to come and should you see it in those you engage with, heed it and make good your departure because it is signaling to you that a far worse stare awaits you.
- The Stare in Devaluation: Malice
This, perhaps, is the stare that most associate with our kind. When you are subjected to our malicious stare, our eyes darken, emphasised by the contortion of our features which makes us appear like something else. The glowing greens, brilliant blues and blissful browns have vanished. The glinting grey eyes are no more, the halcyon hazel has been banished and instead a dark and glowering black has taken their place.
This gaze will cause you to shrink back under its impact. The hatred that is embodied in the ink darkness will turn you cold, send ice through your heart and is enough to even cause you to burst into tears. Terror will grip you because when this stare is deployed against you, you are seeing the evil in our core. The pure, unadulterated hatred which we have for you. It is seething, dense and vicious. It bears down on you, reminding you of your weaknesses and vulnerabilities, a blackened glare which keeps on driving at you, pressing down on you, forcing you to feel small and wretched.
You may have caught the occasional malicious glance from us, just a flash of hatred, but that is something else. Those glimpses were warnings which could only be used for an instant to avoid detection by third parties and the fracturing of the façade. This is a stare. Sometimes it may be accompanied by hissed words of threat and insult. Sometimes it is cloaked in silence, the balefulness a clear warning that a period of silence will now be visiting you.
The person that you thought we were will be utterly absent. Your world has been annihilated in an instant and replaced by two orbs of glinting black, which tell you that you are hated. Totally hated and that much worse will be visited on you in conjunction with this stare of concentrated evil.
- The Stare in the Discard
This is perhaps witnessed if you are actually told of your discard. More often, it appears post discard when you try to see us, to plead with us for answers, to beg us to take you back and so forth. This stare is one of pure contempt. Disdain and distaste for you. How on earth did we come to couple with one so weak, so pathetic and so disgusting as you. You make us shudder to think that we once even looked at you with favour, love and longing. The shame we feel at choosing someone like you is thrust to one side to be overridden by a contemptuous stare, that is designed to weaken you in your tracks and tell you that in no uncertain terms we want nothing to do with you. We have someone far better. This stare is to urge you to keep away and to forbid you from reminding us that we once promised you the world. We do not want to remember such matters. Somebody else receives those promises now. You are an unfortunate reminder of a part of us which we prefer to keep locked away and this stare conveys this through contempt and loathing.
- The Stare in the Hoover
The Malign Follow-Up Hoover as you would expect applies the same approach as the malicious stare detailed above. Should we make contact with you for the purposes of trying to convince you to return to us, whether it is post-discard or post-escape, we will look to hold your gaze once again. This time those eyes of ours will shine again but with hope, longing and contrition. Vulnerability, sorrow and remorse may appear to loom large in the rounded and pleading gaze which we now hold you in.
Once more this is pure artifice. All we are doing is mirroring what you show to us. The hope that we might have seen the error of our ways. The longing for us to come to the realisation that we have done wrong. The sorrow for a person who must behave in this manner. The remorse that you engaged with someone so vile. The longing that you have for the golden period to shine once again. It is all manufactured as we mirror back to you what we see but for the purposes of hoodwinking you once again and with mealy-mouthed assurances and never to be delivered promises, we hook you back into our grasp.
The stare is a prominent weapon when we engage with you. It is a device that fabricates those emotions we do not possess and allows you to see the reality of who you have entangled with when you look up on the emptiness and shrink from the malice.
111 thoughts on “The Stare”
Vent Your Spleen! (Please see the Rules in Formal Info)
This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.
What happens if the stare fails to have its intended effect? My covert narcissist coworker has repeatedly failed to get close to me. I have rejected her outright by ignoring her completely. During one of out last random encounters at work, she attempted to stare me down but I didn’t lock eyes with her. I just turned away and went on with my business. Since then she has kept her distance. Am I finally rid of this person?
No, but you are wounding this person and thus driving the hoover bar higher which means (all else being equal) the likelihood of hoovers will be reduced.
HG
Someone stares at me like that I am going to stare back till they look away and they usually do.
The lower schools do not like what they see, the Greater was amused and didn’t look away.
Twilight
That was my experience with the lower schools. StepN would sometimes look away when I held his stare and sometimes like a dog, become more aggressive. One Mid on first meeting stared into my eyes and when I did not break and it was becoming awkward, shook his head like he was coming to and stated: I was staring. I just replied: yes you were. He changed topic. Others made a joke but looked away. To my knowledge I have never encountered a Greater but I bet they would not break first or change tactic, but rather persist to maintain control.
Hi NA and Twilight,
I stared back at someone years ago. I think she might be a psychopath. Not only did she not break but she took it as Challenge Fuel. I can recognize the evil ones. It is in their eyes and in their calm, composed demeanor – like a snake.
Narc Angel
It was how I caught my ex attention he didn’t break eye contact from the moment, even thou he got up and was walking towards me and then pass…..that was when I said hi *****
He brought it up about two years later and told me it was something he saw within my eyes that caught his attention that was like no others and he had to find out what it was…..
Yes the lower schools look away before I do. They know yet do not know how I “see” them
NarcAngel
Pretzel wouldn’t keep staring back. He’d make some sarcastic quip and if you kept staring, begin to treat you like a joke, especially if other people were present
NarcAngel
Now that I think further….that’s when he’s in a good mood. If Pretzel is feeling malevolent, he will out stare anyone. He often used his stare to intimidate other men and has used it on me in the long distant past. Then, when the other person looks away he unloads a nasty diatribe about them.
The stare always looks pathetic to me. Most narcissists have dead eyes, and the stare only makes that more obvious. The smart ones know to keep their eyes moving so the emptiness is harder to notice.
But I love their attempts at a death stare. That, because of its presumptuousness, turns me vicious. So I react by instantly giving back a real death stare. They just freeze in their tracks and back off like nothing happened. I love it, I love the “I instantly regret this decision” face haha
Dear Mr Tudor,
The weasel would just stare at me and not blink 👁.. I’ve noticed this with my mum also, she doesn’t blink either 👁…. perhaps they were admiring my beauty and fabulousness and just couldn’t take their eyes off me !!!!💄💅🏻🤳🏻
👀
👃🏿
👅
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Another perfect spot on article
Thankyou
I had an interesting and probably common stare situation at the gym today…
Some annoying person was hogging up two machines at the same time, switching between the two. I just so happened to want to use both of them. I worked around him, doing other stuff. Then he walked away from one to the other, and I got on it. He had almost immediately turned around and just stood there, staring at me impatiently while my gaze was forward (he was ahead of me to the left). So, I looked at him when I was done one side and asked him nicely, “is it okay with you if I do the other side?” or something like that. He looked surprised and said, “no” and averted his gaze. When I got off of that machine, I went to the other one that he had been hogging up and he did not approach me as I used it for about 10 minutes.
Dork.
Whoops! I wrote that last part incorrectly.
I asked, “would you mind if do the other side?” and he said “no” – and averted his gaze. I think he may have turned around.
Of course, I was going to do it no matter what his preference.
Staring
I cant be the only one who calls people out on it? I will say directly to the person (with no emotion) youre staring. It lets them know I am not intimidated and then they have the opportunity to say whats on their mind or stop the behaviour. Its not always mean-I’ve had people ask me about my hair or about something Im wearing for example. Usually they are rattled at being called out and just go away.
Hi NA,
“I cant be the only one who calls people out on it? I will say directly to the person (with no emotion) you’re staring.”
Do you ask them when there are other people watching? If so, how do others react?
Hi EB
It has happened in many situations both private and public. Usually the person will register embarassment at getting called out and turn away. I have done it in front of other people and the reactions from witnesses range from amusement that I had the audacity, to embarassment for the person staring and for them having witnessed the exchange. I have been both congratulated and chided for doing it. I dont always say it cruelly. For instance in a washroom I noticed in the mirror a woman staring and without turning to look at her and continuing with what I was doing I said quietly:youre staring. She looked embarassed and quickly offered that she was admiring my hair and then we both laughed. In a different situation: a co-worker presented an idea in a meeting that would surely improve numbers but with most of the benefit and credit to her. I pointed out that it was not well thought out as it would negatively impact another area. When I was done it was obvious she was furious (silent, reddening and staring as to intimidate) the room was quiet (she is not generally one you oppose). So I said nicely: you appear to have something else to say, but are unable to verbalize it just now-perhaps we should carry on and come back to you. With a narc in a car: intense staring. I hold his gaze. He breaks when I will not and shakes his head saying: Im sorry-I was staring. I reply: yes you were. He then tries another tactic.
The difference I think is in how you view it. I think its rude to stare. Not rude to give someone the opportunity to explain why they are.
Hi Narc Angel,
I’m not shy about calling people out, either. I thought and continue to think this is pretty funny. That guy was a moron and totally inconsiderate, so I just gave it back to him. And I haven’t seen that weakling since..
Hi NarcAngel,
I had not seen your replay until today. No email notification this time.
I appreciate your answer very much. Thank you for sharing, NA.
“I have done it in front of other people and the reactions from witnesses range from amusement that I had the audacity, to embarassment for the person staring and for them having witnessed the exchange. I have been both congratulated and chided for doing it. ”
This is interesting. In my particular case, it was exactly the opposite. Witnesses (and also the person staring) look sort of annoyed as if they cannot understand my reaction. Some witnesses tell me I am oversensitive and the like when I call the person staring out. This is why I do not do it anymore and ignore it although I do not want to be passive at all. I guess I have no choice. I do not know why I am usually seen as the oversensitive one or the abuser by other people, when I am actually the one who puts up with more abusive behaviour than others. I agree that it is rude to stare.
When the annoying guy at the gym (who I mentioned in an earlier comment on this post) was staring at me in a passive-aggressive way, I ignored him and looked forward. When I was ready, I looked right in his eyes and they did the talking, not my voice. The message was, “you should look away now.”
Staring back at them works with these Mid-Rangers.
Thank you for sharing, Kate.
Just want to clarify that my “Me, too!” comment was in response to MB, that I do not trust people who do not look in my eyes, either. Thanks…
I broke no contact yesterday, two months after I escaped. So I saw him, he used every tool from the tool kit he could think of-triangulation, pity play, future faking…round and round it went. He didn’t mention my escape, pretended like it never happened, but I think he noticed that something is not working right. He was high as usual, and during the evening his mask slipped and I saw it for the first time- #3 stare. I always thought that people here are exaggerating, but no, somehow his green eyes turned black and there it was, The Creature. I wasn’t even scared I was prepared, but it was like eternal night without any stars. He was in the middle of some story, like nothing is happening and I thought to myself “Well, it about time we meet”. I set there and look at it the whole time, it just had human skin over it, there was nothing human about it. Then the mask was up again for the show. When he left, I felt no confusion I used to feel. Before this I would be thinking about it for days-what’s wrong?why does he do that?will it pass?is this just bad period for him? So I came to realise HG, you saved my life, like you saved lives of many others that are here. If I haven’t come here, I would probably put myself trough life full of misery and who know’s what more. I don’t know if you are already aware of that fact, or even if you can be, but you should think about it. You save persons you don’t even know and that you will never meet. It doesn’t even matter why do you do that, the fact is that you do and that can’t be denied.
Thank you Echo, that is much appreciated, I do receive many e-mails where people express their gratitude in similar terms to your own for how my work and insight has assisted them and pulled them back from the brink.
Hi Echo. Isn’t that stare scary!!! I was eating at a restaurant and my ex walked in . . . I looked into his blue eyes and he looked so happy to see me, then my male friend, someone he has always accused me of being unfaithful with (actually havent been with anyone since him–my ‘picker’ is off) came and sat next to me . . . strange thing about men . . . they sort of tag you . . . his eyes turned BLACK and it was like he was bori g a hole through me . . . his black eyes were filled with hate.
I’ve never seen that stare before . . . scary wicked.
Yup, Echo & SuperEmp+ – #3 stare = staring into gaping black holes that want to suck the life out of you.
I would never have believed it if I hadn’t experienced it myself.
At the time, I didn’t know what it was. I hadn’t found narcsite, yet.
I was not prepared.
Thx for what you both wrote about what you experienced. It’s really helpful & validating and a person kind of needs that when you’re dealing with something this weird and impactful.
For the record, his eyes are hazel, but they weren’t during the stare.
“When you are subjected to our malicious stare, our eyes darken, emphasised by the contortion of our features which makes us appear like something else.”
HG, would you please elaborate on what you mean by the contortion of your features making you appear like something else? Do you mean something other than human?
No, so we look different to how we usually do.
I noticed #3 too when I caught him in a lie (malicious glances, I guess). Actually, this happened twice but he’d duck his head and say something to deflect so that I couldn’t see his cold blue eyes go glinting black.
I don’t maintain eye contact with people who do this. I rarely look at them directly. I usually turn to the side and look off at anything to avoid this annoying behavior.
The problem is, no matter who they are talking to, I can see them staring at me anyway. As soon as my head begins to turn to look at them, they will look away. I turn my head again and they are instantly back at watching and staring at me.
Can’t they just be normal? Why focus on me even when others are conversation with them?
I’m clearly not interested.
Stevie, in such instances you could try saying very loudly in your head, “I am a bore. I am a bore. I am a bore.” Or any other thing you’d tell them about yourself to get rid of the unwanted attention. They should react accordingly.
Hi HG,
Why would someone refuse to meet my gaze when I am being nice to them??
I really don’t get this!
You have the sun behind you?
Ha ha!
I love your sense of humor, HG! Very witty and observant!
Thank you.
No, silly! That’s funny because that is what I told my sister when she said the last guy I dated looked mean because he didn’t smile in the photo and I said that maybe the sun was in his eyes!
I just think that there are mean people who don’t like me and I don’t know why because I am nice to everybody (until they are not nice to me).
Also, I am thinking of a past girlfriend of someone’s who wouldn’t look in my eyes. Maybe it’s because she was trying to manipulate and control him and I saw right through her ad she knew it?? I am not sure, but I was very nice to her and can’t imagine why she was always looking over my shoulder at nothing. She was super creepy.
Why won’t these people look into my eyes in your expert opinion?
To unsettle you.
HI, H.G. I WOULD LOVE TO LOOK IN YOUR EYES WHY? BECAUSE THEY REFLECT BACK TO ME,SHOWS ME ALL THE GENTLE NESS IN MY HEART &SOUL THAT I AM GIVING TO YOU FREELY ! MAYBE THAT’S A PROBLEM WE HAVE AS EMPATH S ,WE CAN TAKE ÀLOT OF NONSENSE FROM YOUR KIND ,WE CHOOSE TO SEE BEYOND BULLSHIT ,WE BELIEVE LOVE IS MUCH STRONGER THEN HATE.WHATARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS H. G.? SINCERELY SHARON🐺🐏.
See the section on Love Devotees in Sitting Target.
I don’t trust people that won’t look me in the eye when they’re talking to me. I perceive them as evasive and deceitful.
If they look to the left , lying. Hand gestures, lying, rubbing parts of their body, lying… its what I do for a living so I can spot a liar fairly well . But i agree with you MB!
The problem with that however is that the narcissist’s lie is our truth, so these apparent ‘tells’ would not be applicable.
So true HG. They don’t act any different telling lies or truth. But, now I know that if I lock eyes with them and immediately feel the spell and melt into a puddle of goo, I know…narcissist!
But… if you tell a baldfaced lie and purposely lied KNOWING it was a lie there would be a tell tale sign. You have said narcs are notorious liars. I could tell when my exhole was lying thru his teeth and he KNEW he was lying to me. Hell, I knew he was lying to me. But I understand in the fashion you are stating HG. I am speaking of baldfaced lying. Please pardon me , I am not good with my words at times.
I understand your point. It would be interesting to see if you could tell when I was lying (and no, before anybody says it, it is not when my lips are moving.)
I would have to physically see you HG. And we both know that wont happen LOL . But I am a spitfire and I love a good challenge. I would be game though. ((Wink))
Nothing wrong with a Spitfire. Or a Hurricane.
Bring it! Ha ha (teasing)
Nothing wrong with a Spitfire or a Hurricane
Haha. That is plane to see.
Boom tish!
Got my sassy pants on today ha ha
My $ is on HG. I’ve seen sociopaths beat lie detector tests in criminal cases. They don’t feel the physical responses of guilt, remorse, etc and therefore there is nothing to detect. (You would have to let her see you though)
Speaking of lies, mine would only admit to lies of commission (though once they were done, they were in the past and so did not matter anymore). He would not admit to lies of omission. He did not see the latter as lies. Yet another way to worm your way out of responsibility.
Good to know Julie. Thank you for that. How would “rubbing parts of their body” look like? What an interesting profession you have…jealous!
MB… lol I guess I should clarify that eekk! Rubbing their ears, forehead, hands on legs, putting their hands in pockets.. lots of signs . Cant mention them all tho .
Me, too!!
Kate
I conduct a lot of job interviews too. If they don’t look me in the eye, they don’t have a chance of getting the job.
Although, this is a totally different issue altogether than “The Stare” HG is talking about. If they subjected me to that, they wouldn’t get the job either!
Am I mistaken or did I read that many sociopaths can pass lie detector tests 1. Because they believe their own lies. 2 because they do not suffer emotional distress the way we do so therefore it’s not picked up in a lie detector test
Lori..some can
Julie
That’s goes to show you they can fool anyone even trained inducviduals therapists etc…
I often see people here saying it will never happen to them again but honestly it’s likely to happen again especially if you spent any length of time in a relationship with one. Theres a susceptibility factor
Lori.. true depending on situation. Im not infallible by any means but I am pretty damn good at what I do. Eventually they fuck up in some way shape or form. I could tell the majority of the time when mine were lying especially the lesser. They can be slippery for sure. I trust no man now.
Hello Julie,
re: “If they look to the left , lying. Hand gestures, lying, rubbing parts of their body, lying…”
Personally, I do not believe in that theory. It is not always possible to tell if someone is lying by paying attention to those gestures. There are people who suffer from chronic anxiety and look fearful or nervous but they are telling the truth. On the other hand, most MRNs and GNs are calm, confident and composed and look others in the eye when they are lying.
EB.. good morning! I disagree because I have been doing it for 20years. Only reason my exhole got away with SOME of his lies is because he works with me too and knew what to do and not do. Slippery lil fella if I dont say so myself. If someone is naturally anxious or nervous they WILL trip up with their words eventually. My problem is I know when the narcs lie but I domt want to believe it ughh
Hi Julie,
If you have been doing it for 20 years, then you must have read or heard that body language including gestures, voice, micro-expressions and so on is not enough to detect deception. It is done using a combination of methods. Psychological narrative is also one of them and not the only one.
I have read different books about body language. It is no wonder why some people think I am lying or exaggerating when I am telling them the truth. Due to external circumstances beyond my control, I used to live with a lot of anxiety and worried a lot. It was frustrating and exhausting trying to prove myself to other people.
Also, people tell me that I look bored, afraid of something, fearful when I am actually feeling calm, relaxed or enjoying myself. I am an introvert and my body language does not always seem to match my inner feelings and thoughts.
Just my two cents.
EB
I completely agree. I’m one of those with chronic social anxiety, but I am a very honest person. I rarely look in people’s eyes. There’s just been too many times looking in the eye has draw unwanted attention to myself!
That said, I do look into the eyes of job interviewers and other instances where it is essential. It it will always be incredibly difficult and stressful for me.
Hi Windstorm,
I realized I usually avoid eye contact too and that I do not do it consciously. It depends on what others are saying. If they are speaking about something important, I cannot look into their eyes and concentrate fully on what they are saying at the same time.
When I read this is wrong, I tried to change my behaviour. The downside of it is that the concentration part is gone. They say, “I told you such and such, don’t you remember?” Rude people tell me I cannot remember anything at all. Damned if I do, damned if I don’t. This is why I would rather speak on the phone or communicate in writing.
Unfortunately, most people have this all-or-nothing way of thinking. They do not seem to accept that introverts (and also people who are shy, social anxiety or whatever) do not mean to be unsocial. We do not function in the same way as extroverts.
EB
I agree. I think it’s human nature to expect other people to be like ourselves and to have been taught to act the way we were. We tend to think that what we believe and do is right, so other ways are not as good. I’ve often been guilty of that too. We probably all are at times.
Kate
I learned as a child never to look into someone’s eyes because it would draw their attention to me more. Maybe because I grew up around a lot of narcs. If you look them in the eyes they can more easily manipulate you and draw fuel from you.
This was just how I grew up. I never looked into the eyes of anyone who was speaking to me. I guess I was 30 before I learned how to look at peoples faces. It was so bad I literally couldnt recognize people when I saw them because I’d never really looked at their faces.
Now I can look into the eyes of someone while they’re speaking to me, but I stay completely still and make no comment or expression. When I speak to them, I never look into their eyes.
I wouldn’t hold this against anyone. You don’t know what their past may have been like and how it has affected them.
Thank you, Windstorm for explaining that to me. I have social anxiety, too, but can and do look people in the eyes. A one-on-one situation works best for me. It is an interesting subject (too much eye contact or less of it).
On the same line of subject matter of not looking in someone’s eyes, does anyone with knowledge in the area know why someone might look down? I take it to mean shyness.
I am curious to know others’ thoughts if they wish to share their opinions..
Kate
I’ve always heard that looking down was a sign of shyness, but it doesn’t have to be. I have always looked down as a focus. If anyone is speaking to me – even those closest to me that I am most at ease with – I look down when listening to eliminate all distractions that might prevent me from giving them my full attention. I sort of shut my eyes off and completely focus on the meaning of what they’re saying.
I’m interested to hear other people’s experiences, too.
Windstorm,
“If anyone is speaking to me… I look down when listening to eliminate all distractions that might prevent me from giving them my full attention. I sort of shut my eyes off and completely focus on the meaning of what they’re saying.”
I do that too. I avoid eye contact and look somewhere else to eliminate distractions.
Hello Kate,
For different reasons. Not only shy people and introverts (not all introverts are shy) but also are passive-aggressive people. If you tell a narcissist you do not like it, they will do it over and over again to get fuel from you.
As an introvert, avoiding eye contact helps me concentrate and eliminate distractions. I do this especially when people are speaking about something important or they need help and I want to fully understand them.
Making eye contact is thought to be rude or disrespectful in some Eastern cultures so they tend to look down.
Unless a narcissist tries and stares at somebody whose stare is even more piercing. Which may be why hypnotizing such people is more challenging.
I met one narc once, whose gaze I COULD NOT hold. Even sitting across from each other over dinner I felt very uncomfortable looking into his eyes. I had to keep looking away. It took about a month to do it comfortably, all the while he was of course love bombing me. Then, the discard. Huge discard. Just bang, it was over. 3months later the same thing again! (Stupid me gave him another go). Stare, lovebombing to discard….nothing in between. The fact that I could not hold his gaze in the beginning, I believe is another red flag from the first second.
Would you agree H.G.? Thanks.
Such a stare and the discomfort felt is a red flag, yes.
Thank you H.G. I will not fall for this one again.
I am curious, HG, what you hear in terms of the quality of this discomfort. Is it butterflies in the stomach? An inexplicable feeling of wanting to flee? Have you noticed any themes?
Personally, I felt it early on as well, Lisa. Not so much a stare, as I would get VERY nervous and ill at east around him and yet feel like I enjoyed being around him. I, unfortunately, believed it to be attraction… which had negative consequences obviously…
Not butterflies but a deep-seated discomfort, fear, nervousness, dread, unable to think straight and/or the need to flee.
Ha, ha, HG! You just described exactly how I feel going into any social situation! 😝
Wonder if my social anxiety could have its roots way back when I was small and always with narcissists? Maybe I took that feeling when I looked at them and subconsciously assumed it with everyone?
Thank you, HG. I love being here on the blog because I’m constantly getting new insights and ideas!
You are welcome.
Yes, HG, and Windstorm, yes, I feel like this too. All my life so far, I’ve always fled, moving from here to there…ive always had a difficult time connecting living places.
I hate it. Where I live now I’m working on doing my best to put some roots down.
I guess we’ll see what happens…
Windstorm,
re: “Wonder if my social anxiety could have its roots way back when I was small and always with narcissists?”
IMO, you answered your own question. There is no such a thing as being born with social anxiety.
EB
Ah, but you have no idea how often I was made to feel that I was born defective. It was a constant worry for my mother that God cursed her with a mentally off child!
My “ah ha!” Moment, though was in realizing that my learning to never look into anyone’s eyes, especially when they were talking, may have been a natural reaction to the feelings normal people have when looking into the eyes of narcs. It’s a very comforting thought to me whenever I learn that something I do is not crazy. I will never totally escape that fear deep down that my mother was right all along.
Nobody thinks you’re crazy here Windstorm! You were very much missed when you were in Japan.
Thank you, Clarece! You are always very sweet. Of course I could point out that none of you all have ever actually met me…….
No offense to any of my compatriots, but I think a lot of people could argue that HSPs who are contagion empaths raised by narcs are not what most people would call “normal.” It is very affirming to learn, though, that I do fit into recognized categories! 😄
Windstorm,
“…you have no idea how often I was made to feel that I was born defective. ”
I can relate to how you felt. This erodes your self-esteem. Gaslighting is insidious. They told me I was ‘mentally disabled’ and similar things on a daily basis.
“I will never totally escape that fear deep down that my mother was right all along.”
She was wrong, WS. It takes a lot of time and effort to remove these beliefs from the subconscious mind and replace them with the truth.
EB
Thank you for your caring response. I do understand it intellectually, but you’re right, it takes a lot more to internalize it subconsciously.
Maybe what makes it harder is I’m pretty sure my mother really believed it. She wasn’t gaslighting about thinking I was mentally off. I could feal her fear and worry. Of course to a midrange narc, a contagion empath child probably did seem crazy and abnormal!
Windstorm
You said your a Contangon
This is why I will turn from looking into the eyes of another
It is very instinctive for me to mirror back, showing what one desires is much harder (and feels like a lie) then to show someone what they feel, what needs to be healed within them. I can do this to HGs kind to.And believe me they do not take well to this.
I was taught from a very young age what was happening, it doesn’t sound like you knew and “listened” to your mother and internalize this as a defect.
Can you imagine a battle of wills between a Creabal Greater and an aware Contangon ….I will admit it is very hard to “show” a Greater, I believe they have a stronger mindset then the other schools.
Twilight
I mirror too. That may be the reason people often think I’m feeling the same way they are when I am not at all.
No, no one ever explained why or what I am. They probably none of them had any idea. It took me many years to understand that other people really didn’t feel the pain around them too and that they were not being deliberately hurtful to me by ignoring my feelings. I never heard the term contagion empath until this blog.
I have my own greater cerebral to experiment on. I don’t really “clash wills with him”, but I definitely hold my own. We both benefit from the relationship we have now, but I have no doubt if I was really antagonistic with him he would squash me like a bug. He has the ability to be mean on a level that I am not willing or able to stand.
That said, he understands that and holds himself back so that we can continue a friendly relationship. I certainly don’t have to walk on egg shells around him, but neither would I deliberately hurt him. I think this is possible because we both have such a good understanding of each other. Maybe that’s because of my contagion and his intelligence. Who knows.
Windstorm
I had someone recognised and explain things to me as a child. Life still wasn’t easy. I had to learn to not fight the energy I was absorbing and “claim” it as mine, then internalizing said emotions. I have other abilities most empaths do not,yet this could be I was taught how to identify and explore the world differently.
I never did anything to hurt my ex, he knew thou I was very set in my opinion and decision when we had this “clash”. I knew his limit and he knew mine, and for the most part “respected “this line. I knew if he wanted to get mean he could, I never seen a reason to push him to this point. It was only after he thought I would expose his secrets, I understood thou the why he was doing what he did and stayed silent. I didn’t fight him on it. Once he pushed me to far….. well he saw a very different side of me. One that is strictly instinctive and has only happened when pushed to an extreme with an emotion, be it fear or anger. I can say the times it happen from fearI hold no regret or remorse only the one time from anger was I left with both regret and remorse.
I read another of your comments about your mother and raising a contagion empath, I would have to agree. My Grandmother thought I was a freak of nature. Maybe I am….
Take care Windstorm
Twilight
You take care, too!
Thank you- I do have amazing eyes= next time I see “HIM” I will seduce him with MY eyes, my stare— then walk away like I have been doing– I am in revenge mode and with your guidance it seems to be working!
HG, don’t you recommend non-revenge as the best way to handle narcissists?
No contact is the “go to” method of achieving a form of revenge. There are two other types of revenge which might be achieved but they are not for everybody and furthermore they can only be applied at a particular point in time. In the majority of cases, no contact is the best option.
HG, how can no contact be a form of revenge when the narc is not contacting you? He doesn’t care anyway.
Of course it is. If you do no contact PROPERLY the hoovers cannot get through so you receive no contact but the narcissist may well have tried. The whole point is that NC MUST be instigated at the earliest opportunity to protect yourself and drain your emotional thinking to a level whereby you can then start to understand and anchor that understanding.
You make your revenge through no contact. You make your own closure. You do not rely on a reaction from us to validate revenge, to do so means you are still engaging and that is contrary to your best interests.
Thanks so much for your response, HG! Reading your words of wisdom and insight always give me strength and determination. I can feel emotional thinking give way to logic. Thank you for being there and continuing to empower us as we are fighting this tremendously difficult battle against emotional thinking and addiction. We appreciate you and everything you do on this blog.
He always told me my eyes always sparkled. He always called me bright eyes.
Once, he made a comment telling me how I had pretty blue eyes.
My eyes are Brown.
Ouch.
I’m sorry, T, this is not to be insensitive to your experience but it is funny!
What was your reaction then?
Lol, SN, thank you!
I do need to lighten up, it’s hard…
One of the line ups after me , ( during) had blue eyes.
So what did I do after he said that? I said nothing and stared into his eyes until I was satisfied that he knew he made a mistake, lolol!!!
He totally did that on pupose. Everything they say is with purpose. Everything
Instinctive purpose for the majority.
Hi Lori, I agree.
Brilliantly cold as ice.
What’s instinctive purpose? You mean like a reflex ?
I find they always leave a trail of crumbs to show you who your replacement is
Yes.
T, MY MALE NARCISSIST FRIEND ONCE TOLD ME(YOU SHOULD GET A JOB ON ONE OF THOSE CALL IN PHONE SITES , WITH YOUR VOICE NO BODY WOULD KNOW THEY WERE TALKING TO ,A OLD,FAT,GREYHAIRED,CRIPPLED , With GLASSES BITCH ) THE ONLY THING THAT WAS TRUE WAS THE GLASSES THING !I. I. WORKED THIRTY YEARS FOR PUBLUSHING COMPANY NOT A PORN SITE ,1st.CLASS ASSHOLE ALL THE WAY!😉😉😉!
Omg, Sharon!!! Yes, asshole!!!
No one deserves that kind of behavior.
Especially if it’s someone who is supposed to love you.
But saying things like that is about them and how they feel about themselves. And they’re quite good at taking it out on people. Anyone will do as a verbal and physical punching bag.
Fuck, I still cry myself to sleep a lot of night’s. Too many night’s. My body still hurts, my thoughts messed up. I loved him a lot. The thing is, he didn’t love me. Stupid me didn’t want to take the clues he was giving out that he didn’t love me. I blame myself for staying, for going back time and again, believing the same lies because I loved him.
We don’t deserve to be treated like shit, Sharon.
I remember it was October 17, 2014. The sun was down, we where standing outside of the place we lived, and out of thin air, he asked me if I wanted him to treat me like shit? Now I understand. And he would always accuse me of trying to hurt him. Utter nonsense. I did my best. I want peace. And in my head and heart I’m far from it. I war between the two. It’s a bitch.
We all deserve so much better.
#3 is the only one I ever noticed. Thought I was about to be murdered. They dont even need to say a single word as that stare says it all. Its like a serial killer stare that slices into your very core ((shudder))
Ty HG
I HAVE SEEN THAT SCARY STARE SO MANY TIMES IN THE LAST 4YEARS WITH MY ,NARC , JUST THOUGHT HE WANTED ALL MY ATTENTION BUT WHEN SOMEONE TOLD ME I LOOKED NICE ,OR MY HAIR WAS LOVELY ,HE ALWAYS PICKED A FIGHT ALWAYS MADE ME CRY ! H. G. I WHEN SOMEONE SPOKE TO ME I ALWAYS INCLUDED HIM I ALWAYS TALKED ABOUT HIS ACCOMPLISHMENTS , GAVE HIM THE LIMELIGHT,NARC.NEVER EVER TELL’S ME I LOOK GOOD , BUT HATE’S ME WHEN OTHERS DO! SAID HIS1st WIFE LOOKED REALLY BAD HE MADE A REMAKE ON HER, HIS 2ND WIFE DOESN’T KNOW HOW TO DRESS ,DUMPY CLOTHES NO SENSE OF STYLE ETC ! MEETS ME COULD NOT CHANGE ANYTHING ABOUT ME,MY HUSBAND WAS A VERY GIFTED MUSICIAN HAD KNOWLEDGE ABOUT CLOTHING TAUGHT ME TO DRESS WELL(AFTER ALL HE WAS A CEREBRAL NARCISSIST HIMSELF & AND PROUD OF IT ! THIS LESSER NARCISSIST ASSHOLE COULDN’T CHANGE ME OUTSIDE , BUT SURE AS HELL HAS CHANGED MY HEART ,IM IN PAIN (PHYSICAL EMOTIONAL ,HE KNOWS,THIS! COMES BY OFTEN , ASKED (ARE YOU DESTROYED YET?I SAY TAKE A LOOK WHAT DO YOU THINK? HE SAYS ,NO NOT YET,LITTLE MORE . THEN SAYS (NEVER THOUGHT YOU WERE SO STRONG) !THEN THE STARE ,TWO BLACK HOLE’S !😎😎😎!H.G.I WILL DESTROY HIM WITH MY STORIES ABOUT GOD,NATURE & LOVE STAY POSITIVE , LOOK YOUR BEST,& WATCH HIM SQUIRM !😅😆😄NOW THAT I HAVE LEARNED MUCH ABOUT MYSELF WITH YOUR HELP ( H.G.) I. CAN MAKE IT WITH THE TOOLS YOU GAVE ME! GOOD LUCK MY DEAR & THANK YOU , SINCERELY SHARON 😘
Sharon… Its the look of pure evil if you ask me. If murder was legal (think the movie the purge) my lesser would have. I dont know what type you have but if he is acting that way about the dressing and hair etc.. just be careful. I was prevented on several occasions from leaving the house because “those jeans make your ass look too good, go change”. I even was prevented once from going to work because I wore lipstick. NEVER underestimate them. I hope you are safe and do things safely.
They would do it, if they could, Julie.
I dont think my greater would have but DEFINITELY the lesser would have. He had already been in prison for domestic & trying to burn down his ex girlfriends house. I sent his ass packing and he won a hoover then I went NC and been nc for few years now.The greater was too smart I believe. Those lessers are savage with being physical. Wouldnt wish one on my worst enemy or any other type of N actually.