The Super Empath

THE SUPER EMPATH

 

It is well known that our kind target those who have empathic traits. Just like those of my persuasion operate on a spectrum, those who exhibit empathy do so as well. There are those we might regard as the “normals” those people who have some narcissistic traits and some empathic traits. As ever, when I use the words empathic and empathetic I state them with reference to certain traits such as empathy (clearly), honesty, kindness, decency and such like. I do not use the words in the sense of being in tune with the world and the environment. The normal are in the centre, possibly leaning one way towards my kind or the other way towards your kind. It is extremely rare for a normal to be ensnared as primary source because put simply, they do not cut the mustard. Their emotional responses are not sufficient, their empathic traits whilst evident are not sufficient to either bind to us or provide us with the fuel that we need. Such a person would easily pass a homeless person begging, a person crying alone on a bench or somebody who had fallen off their bike and injured themselves. They are self-absorbed but not to the degree that our kind is. They will help if they really have to, but they do not go out of their way to act in a way that causes harm to anybody else.

Thereafter come those who are empaths. Empaths are always targeted as primary sources. They often fulfil secondary roles as well. They are rarer in a tertiary source position since if they are an empath, they would be better suited to either being a primary or secondary source. We would not want those empathic traits to go to waste. The empath has a good range of empathic traits those of honesty, decency, having a strong moral compass and being a good listener, just to list a few of them. They may not have all of the empathic traits that we look for, but they will have several and exhibit them in a concentrated form. Thus this person would look to donate to a charity, hand a wallet in that was found in the street, help a stranger who is in distress, sit and listen to somebody who has problems and acts of a similar nature.

Next comes the Super Empath. This person is not a co-dependent. Both the Super Empath and the co-dependent have many, if not all of the empathic traits that we look for and they have them to a stronger degree than the empath. For example, both might take the homeless person under their wing and take them to a shelter, maybe even house them themselves for a period of time. They would try and locate the person who had lost their wallet in order to hand it back in person rather than say hand it in at a police station first. They will listen to the person with problems and then offer practical solutions to resolve those difficulties. The co-dependent gains validation from such acts through giving and has to do this to an excessive degree even when it goes beyond what is good for themselves, such is their inherent addiction to the act of giving and selflessness. The co-dependent may not actually be that strong an individual (they are in the sense of the abuse that they can soak up) but they are not strong as they have no identity to assert, they must form one through self-flagellation, giving and not taking. They are masochistic in nature, driving themselves to the point of collapse and illness because they lack the strength to escape and the desire to do so from the clutches of our kind. Lesser Narcissists and Mid-Range Narcissists hook up with co-dependents especially because they give, give and give but do not fight back. They challenge themselves, blame themselves and always make excuses for their abuser.

The Super Empath is also a giver but whereas the co-dependent is masochistic in this giving, the Super Empath does so from a position of strength. They hold their ability to empathise, to heal, to fix and impart goodness as a great gift and one which ought not to be abused. They are drawn to our kind less because of the co-dependent’s need to seek validation of identity through a narcissist, but more because they are initially attracted to the apparent emotional output of the narcissist. The false strength which the narcissist exhibits at the outset of the seduction, the confidence, the apparent satisfaction with his self, that he appears comfortable in his own skin, at ease with others, capable of lighting up a room and so forth is a huge attraction to the Super Empath because that person actually sees something of themselves in the narcissist when the narcissist is seducing. That is not to state that the Super Empath is a narcissist. Far from it. But the Super Empath is just as engaging as the narcissist and thus there is a mutual attraction. The Super Empath is also more challenging to the narcissist and therefore is usually the recipient of some Mid-Range narcissists and most often the Greater Narcissist. This is not because the Super Empath is awkward or reticent but rather she will be forthcoming with her empathic traits once she feels that they have been earned. Accordingly, the narcissist must put the extra miles in, in terms of seduction to ensnare the Super Empath. This person needs to be coerced into sharing the fruits of their empathy but once that trust has been earned, once the gate has been unlocked the benefits are huge. The Super Empath shines with empathy, glows with decency and pours forth delicious fuel.

This continues during devaluation. The empath and co-dependent are easier to “break” in terms of causing negative fuel to flow. The Super Empath is made of sterner material and will resist the negative machinations of the narcissist at first. This may result in the narcissist dis-engaging if he does not feel able to impact on the Super Empath and seeking fuel elsewhere. The Greater knows who he has ensnared and knows once again he must unlock the fuel source, this time negative, of the Super Empath and once it is done the tidal wave of fuel is to be enjoyed. The Super Empath will remain, wanting to fix the narcissist, exhibiting again the same empathic traits of others on the empathic spectrum, but again being made of sterner stuff, their descent towards numbness and malfunction is far slower than that of the empath. The Super Empath will keep providing the fuel but deteriorates at a slower rate. The risk factor however with a Super Empath is that their own personal integrity is greater than the empath’s and very much greater than that of the co-dependent and consequently of all these three classes of empath, the Super Empath is the one more likely to make a bid for escape and thus leave the narcissist with a cessation problem.

The challenge of unlocking both positive and negative fuel proves an attraction for the right type of narcissist because this allows him to assert his superiority and enjoy the challenge. The reward is magnificent. Excellent fuel and such that deteriorates at a much slower rate. The downside is the potential for the Super Empath becoming “aware” of what is happening, becoming unwilling to dedicate further energy to staying with the narcissist to fix and to heal and thus escaping. The Super Empath requires fairly careful management by our kind, but the rewards always mean that this person is a challenge which is often accepted.

Advertisements

247 thoughts on “The Super Empath”

  1. As per usual I’m late on commenting. The first time I read this I had my Mom read it too, asking am I? I definitely am. It took me some time to figure out my narc traits (defiant, anger, etc.) but they are usually offset by my empath traits, especially my ability for introspection. Reading the comments here was a HUGE help in figuring that out. I love reading all the banter and jokes.

    When I found out the Narc was blame shifting to me (after making a comment about my lack of self esteem) I went ballistic. 2,000 miles away didn’t make a difference. I went bare knuckled on a heavy bag and two guesses who’s face I was going for.

    I don’t think whether or not someone goes back for more indicates they are not an SE. I think SE’s might catch on in certain interactions and react accordingly (as with any empath pushed into a corner) but they are strong and feisty which allows them to escape and wound. When I think of an SE I actually think of HG’s Valentine’s Day article and the woman who ran HR . I loved that particular one actually. I feel like I’m not expressing myself the way I want but for the first time I feel like I can try.

  2. What do you think of the concept of “covert narcissists”? Or how would extroversion, intro- and ambiversion fit into the existing concept of schools ? Or would an introvert necessarily be a SE ?

  3. Can you imagine or have you acknowledged a relation between two Super Empaths ? Which classes of narcissists feel obliged to target one or even both of them and which classes will not attempt to target any Super Empath once they realize their lack of power to do so ?

    1. 1. Yes, that can happen.
      2. Any school would target a super empath, but Lessers and lower mid range would struggle to control them.

      1. 2a) If the schools fail to control any target, will they improve their skill/school? You are not born a Greater Narcissist, it’s not genetic, it must be learned.

        2b) If the Super Empath accepts a Greater Narcissist to walk with them (maybe) because of that (extra?) emotional output (and maybe to keep that negative behaviour from others) and becomes aware of hidden abusive behavior/attempted management of the Greater Narcissist towards him or herself, what will happen from your experience ?

      2. Not necessarily, they will seek out targets which are easier to control.

        It depends on where the SE fits in the fuel matrix.

      3. Let’s say the SE is the primary resource of the GN and the SE starts to mirror that said behavior and goes for a travel for 2 weeks. As a first reaction the GN leans towards secondary and tertiary resources he or she kept away from the SE.

      4. With regard to mirroring the narcissist, see the article ‘Never Mirror The Narcissist’.

      5. Since I have seen your explanation of “why it is not in your interest to mirror the narcissist” a couple of times, I wonder if mirroring may cause some damage but ultimately separate any school of narcissists from other persons and therefor make some situations clear if that relationship can be thought of as ‘healthy’ by any means. Where the narcissist (the greater the better) exerts control especially over the victims options to leave, he or she must – as you carefully noted in the video – accept the fact that the mirror does not deliver fuel and that at least the actual techniques of control are highlighted by the mirror. Being objected by him- or herself, this must start an inner fury which the greater narcissists need their own energy for to control it where the lower ones just lose it directly. Being challenged especially with him or herself is unacceptable and will therefor cause identifiable reactions if one is unsure if he or she is a narcissists who may destroy oneself later on.

        The narcissists ongoing efforts to create and control a certain reality is set off by the mirror, because he or she cannot control a situation involving the mirror where this behavior isnt mirrored as exactly that and therefor violence will show up to identify him or her as they use it to ultimately and definitely back up their compulsive fantasies and fetishes with it.

        Mirroring might be in the best interest of the victim once she or he wants to find out if this person is a narcissist or as a tool (for situations like 2b) to leave him or her after deciding that the narcissists emotional output does not make up (does not go that extra mile long enough) for what he or she takes.

        So my question in 2b) was looking for the different reactions of the schools in such a situation.

        The victim here is at least regarded as potential primary resource if it is not the actual one.

  4. I believe a Super Empath would and can because of intelligence level and great observation skills, realize in order to get out of the entanglement, she/he must reflect / deflect and flip the script. The target must become a third person and look from the outside in. I believe I read somewhere where HG stated a great game of chess, in chess one must know his opponent and have a great knowledge of the game, just as in war, because that’s what an escape ultimately comes down to. For a successful victory one must outsmart the opponent wittingly and unbeknownst to the opposition. The end becomes battle of the minds, manipulations and false [expression of] emotions. Since the narcissist, in my experience, will never retreat ( unless the narcissist sees a self benefit in doing so ) one must allow the narcissist to believe they are always ‘winning’ while, in fact, the target is. This is how I escaped and barely. I am greatful to still be alive. If for some reason the narcissist has discarded you, take it as a gift and go no contact. It very well could save your life.
    Do you agree, HG? Why or why not?

  5. You say that you prefer a Super Empath because they’re feisty and a challenge. Yet, you have also stated that you engage in certain manipulations to ensure that the victim is surrendering to your control. So, wouldn’t a feisty and challenging empath wound you considerably because of her unwillingness to adhere to your complete control?

    Additionally, how do you know that you are indeed interacting with a Super Empath and not another Greater with a pristine construct (great display of empathy for example)? Just curious.

    1. 1. A SE is unlikely to wound because the responses are more likely to be Challenge Fuel.
      2. I can distinguish between a SE and a Greater.

      1. Appreciate your response.

        As for the second question, I wasn’t trying to insult your intelligence. I was asking for our understanding. How do you decipher between the two (since obviously some of us can’t)?

        After all, a SE is more likely to be more emotionally stronger than your run of the mill empaths, so they could easily be seen as a narcissist by some of those just learning about all of this since you said they, too, have a large number of narcissistic traits (even if they really do only appear when the SE is pushed too far).

        I ask because on the outset, both display empathy (the SE naturally and the narcissist for the construct). But then both eventually show their narcissistic traits (the SE when pushed and the narcissist for devaluation).

        You say that narcissists are always the victim, so how can you determine which is the ‘authentic’ empath when the narcissist is always claiming to be reacting rather than initiating the behavior (because everything is always everyone else’s fault)?

        There are just so many similarities that a mistake could be made. For instance, if a SE and an empath were friends and the empath offended the SE and the SE stop talking to the the empath temporarily (what could be seen as a silent treatment) because the empath hurt their feelings, then the empath could easily be led to believe that their dealing with a narcissist when in fact they’re not.

        Hope this explanation better explains where I’m coming from.

      2. HG – thinking back to the past in my entanglement: in the case of a Mid-ranger who physically intimidates his IPPS by invading her space and just standing there – as if taunting her to react – and he gets no reaction (ex. she does not physically lash out at him and she doesn’t recoil or flinch) because she just stands her ground – is that wounding to a narc? Or if not, what is it…not challenge fuel I’m assuming?
        (I understand most of your concepts and methodology but I fail at discerning some of the specifics when in play.)

      3. Yes, that would wound. However, keep in mind that the facial expression and look in the eyes may demonstrate some form of reaction from the victim and therefore some fuel may actually be provided, so there is no wounding. It is very hard to remain in the presence of a narcissist and give no fuel, you need to exit from us in a neutral fashion to wound us.

      4. how do you distinguish between a SE and a greater who is pretending to be super empatic? Is it just the energy they give out?

        You know I have realized I am part magnetic empath. I found your definition very interesting. Random people approach me all the time, like I am this beacon of hope. Does that happen with a SE and a greater? Like even if the greater is faking super empathy their energy levels never give out this beacon of hope or empathy that would drive you to recognize an empath?

      5. The SE exhibits emotional empathy. The Greater does not and the calculated, cold game-playing, string-jerking and puppeteering of the Greater is evident to one such as I.

    2. Hi jaysle…i think theres many super empaths that are confused with greaters. If theindividual keeps going back for more and is enjoying it theyre probably a greater bc they too are getting fuel.
      A true super empath in my books would kick a narcissist to the curb and not keep going back for more. Thats a codependant. Theyre codependant on what theyre getting from the narcissist.
      I think many are also narcissists/codependants and are confused as super empaths.

      1. I disagree because 1 – I am a SE and 2 – I’m with a UMS by choice. I’m having a whale of a time with him ATM but I’m with him for my own purposes and not because I want to fix/heal him. He is being instrumental in the writing of my book.

        Only the other day he tried very hard to convince me that he wasn’t a sociopath (we had been talking about his teenage daughter who he suspected had no empathy). He then looked at me queerly and said ‘I’m not an SP!’. ‘Sweetie’, I said, ‘I never said you was one’. Which is true, I’ve never accused him of being one.to his face. He knows who he is, I believe.

        I shower him with praise (he earns it), gaze adoringly in his eyes (he is a somatic after all! 😉 )and let my own empathic nature flow. It did get a bit much the other day when he went on a massive triangle-a-thon with a lot of his female ‘friends’ at an event. I was exhausted having to ‘hold’ the energy. Wearing sunglasses helped a lot.

      2. “kick a narcissist to the curb and not keep going back” -> Damn right, going back would be the ultimate disgrace.

  6. You speak of super empath (supernova) in a very different way. Dare i say: respect maybe admiration for supernovas to be able to give you fuel but at the same time you are kind proceeds with CAUTION. We make narcs work for our empathy. BUT also all this works for you as its a “challange”.

    Seeing that the co-dependent is “weak” (and unable to comprehend what is going on) compared to empath who kind of notices but isnt sure or super empath; my question is: Is it posible for an empath to evolve into superempath?

    1. GR
      Perhaps I misunderstood you and I am definitely not a SE myself, but from what I have learned here, SEs are just as clueless as the rest of us when ensnared. They’re not super-smart, they’re just super-narc-like when they reach their tolerance limit and blow up.

      SEs have always had stronger narc traits than the rest of us, so those of us lacking those traits will never become a SE. We develop our own ways of dealing with narcs based on our own traits. And regular empaths can be just as much or even more aware of narcs than SEs are. I doubt if anyone can spot a narc faster than I can, and I am a regular empath.

      1. I think you are right, Windstorm. I am pretty sure I am an SE and for almost two years I did not know what I was dealing with. I had my suspicions but I would always give him the benefit of the doubt (empathy). I had a lot of anxiety but not a lot of anger until post-escape, and then I went ballistic. Not sure how narcissitic or even effective my blow up was, but we battled it out for over a month – manipulating each other until checkmate – I was able to make him do what I needed him to do. Yet I punished him further and I am still plotting because of all the crap he put me through. Basically, the colder I got, the more vicious I got, the less attracted I was to him and the more dangerous it got for him. He did not see it coming, even though I warned him over and over. I don’t think he’ll contact me again, but famous last words…

  7. Also i think supernovas can be misleading. A supernova can be misinterpreted as say a borderline or empath throwing a fit when triggered by a narcissist. You push any empath too far and its only natural to see them retaliate.

    1. Chihuahuamum
      I agree. I don’t think we really understand the difference in what a super empath would do, as opposed to the type of fit we all might throw when pushed too far.

      1. Hi windstorm…i think many would think a super empaths fit would be to get revenge and one up a narcissist but i think it takes greater strength to compose yourself and walk away. Realise the toxicity and no longer engage with the narcissist.
        Getting revenge or lashing out is weakness bc youre wrapped up in emotion and reacting opposed to thinking logically and not entering into conflict with someone whose dysfunctional and doesnt think rationally.

    2. This makes sense, I think. It also kinda answers a question I had asked on here a little while ago about whether supernovas were exclusive to the SE. Because I’ve definitely retaliated but I don’t feel like I’m SE.

      1. Hi echo…i can relate to a super empath as well but not fully as described.
        I find it bothersome that some victims are considered having more strength or superpowers. So many want to be the super empath but what does that really mean? Being able to escape only to go back? Releasing anger and narc traits. Most victims over time will get fed up and react. Maybe it takes some longer to but its human nature to lash out when poked and triggered enough. Ive experienced what i consider a few supernovas but i certainly dont think i am a super empath. I guess it depends what you consider strength and to me thats leaving for good and resisting hoovers AND avoiding future narcs. Its having boundaries in place and loving and respecting yourself. Its reaching out and helping others do the same. Its not claiming to be a super empath and feeling like your better than other victims that is to me is narcissistic.
        I know of a few here id consider super empaths and one other person. They make you feel proud to know them.

    3. Kind of disagree? As always, The Dark Master has observed my school with great care.

      My SN’s do come from a position of rage but it is directed and honed at the N. A few years ago I unwittingly stumbled on the extensive fuel matrix of the GCN I was seeing. I was utterly incensed. I went at him for a week until he deployed ‘The Suicide Power Play on me. I sensed what he was doing and became even wilder. I really put him under the knuckle as I threatened several times a day to expose him which I eventually did.

      I have heard no more from him since; he knows he cannot control me.

      A LV who I disengaged from relatively peacefully,went WILD at me, so I went SN on him too and properly kicked HIS butt. What he doesn’t know is that I am now ‘poisoning his well’ and have been for some time.I’m just watching and waiting for the eventual fuel crisis.

      1. Sounds like me, Renarde. I totally lost it post-escape after I inadvertently wounded him and got some classic spiteful narc behavior in return. It was funny (to me), how it was only after the FR ended that I was able to be so relentless and targeted. I don’t think he will resurface but I recently had a sign, and he has reappeared before after I thought we were done. So, I am also watching and waiting, while plotting my next move because no, I am not done. No rush on my end…

  8. My definition of super empath is any victim thats an empath and leaves an abusive situation permanently and avoids being ensnared in future abuse. Theyve learned about their situation and improved themselves. Theyve become a super empath.
    I hate classifying empaths within an abusive relationship as super bc i find so many want to be a super empath like it makes them stronger or possess “superpowers” it doesnt. If youre going back to a narcissist for more youre no better off than a codependant or any other victim ensnared. The ability to disengage and go back for more or have a supernova doesnt make you stronger or better than another empath who stays. Youre a superempath once you leave for good and stop engaging with the abuser.

    1. Hi Narc affair,

      I like and agree with your particular definition of super empath!

      For myself, I can understand how the word choice of ‘super’ causes some issues. While I care about the differences in schools as it pertains to understanding myself – I don’t really care about it as much as a means of comparison to others.

      But I do think that an ‘enlightened’ super empath, who reads here on the blog, is a different creature than one ‘out there,’ naturally engaging in ‘super empath’ behaviours (as described by HG) but oblivious to the dynamics she is engaging in.

      I agree with you that a fully enlightened super empath who chooses to knowingly re-entangle with their narcissist does not appear so ‘super’ from a certain perspective.

      1. Hi whocares…ty for your reply. No theres nothing super about going back to an abusive situation whether an existing one or new one. I dont like the term super empath bc i feel it diminishes the other empaths. I do understand the reasoning behind the term as explained but to me anyone can become a super empath once theyve escaped and are on the pathway to healing and reaching their full potential in life. Most of all empowering and improving themselves. Thats a super strength.

  9. K,

    Adorable pic!

    “That is a pic of me and my twin. He is a narcissist and I am the cute empath on the left. We were two when that picture was taken.”

    That must have been interesting, to say the least, growing up with a narcissistic twin. I’m glad you shared that though because it sheds some insight into my family regarding relatives of mine who are twins and I think one of them is a narc and the other is an empath. The sad thing is I believe (now) the empath was scapegoated and shunned from our family by being made to look like a selfish user. And it makes me so deeply sad for him when I think that I’m correct in my guess.

    K, does any of this dynamic seem plausible in your experience? Sorry to pry, don’t feel obligated to amswer that.

    1. WhoCares
      I don’t mind answering questions at all. It is entirely plausible that the empath twin was scapegoated and shunned. My matrinarc and narc sister were not too fond of me and I was excluded from cookouts and birthdays (I did not mind at all). My patrinarc would be angry with me because I didn’t show up for family events and when I explained that I wasn’t invited, he would tell me that both my mother and sister said they called and invited me (liars). It was ridiculous. Anything goes in this dynamic, we just have to figure out who is who on the spectrum and go NC with the narcs. It is very sad, to say the least.

      1. Thank-you K for elaborating on some of your family experience. Wow, I really I honestly can’t imagine what it would be like having both parents as narcissists. I’m still, at times, reeling from the awareness of the extent of damage they can inflict and it’s ripple effect..

        I’m reflecting on the dynamics in my family and I believe, now, that many of the females were/are narcissists (when, as a child, I was always led to believe that they were ‘strong’ women who happened to be victimized) and ‘men’, in general, were painted black as unreliable and pretty much useless…I never bought into that perspective and I always attributed the bitterness and resentfulness (expressed by the female narcs) towards men as resulting from the pain the women carried due to bad experiences with relationships. Now I realize the women may very well have been the abusing/using ones and the men were disempowered empaths who didn’t have a foot to stand on.

        With regard to the empath twin I mentioned – he was painted as a useless father, a selfish user, etc…etc..but now I think that he was actually a very damaged empath who just didn’t stand a chance against the female narcs in the family – namely, his own mother. He is ‘estranged’ from most of the family but I hope it gave him the no contact he needed…

        Not to make light of it but…
        It’s like reviewing your entire life with a completely different perspective – not unlike a M. Night Shyamalan movie with a wicked plot twist.

    1. The Greater is the only one who uses the Magnet to his advantage. The Lesser and MR think it’s cute in the beginning but become envious and jealous, hating and punishing you for it. I was always accused of “needing to much attention.”

      1. I agree, Jess. I think I am a Magnet SE and my mid-ranger bit off more than he could chew – he was competitive and jealous. In the end, I chewed HIM up and spit him out (well, I tried, anyway). Occasionally I still think about doing more damage because I can and I might. Just out of spite! LOL.

    2. No – had all schools and all cadres and almost all combinations. Relations with the L’s and the LM, MM’s are often frought. They are much calmer with the UM and the G’s.

  10. He’s definitely a greater and I’m no match he announced he’s coming to live with me in the united states I started an argument becsuse i didnt want him too he asked if I wanted him to come I said no next thing I know an old argument came up we had a million times about a document I supposedly neglected to bring to Algeria when in actuilatyy we both discovered that I needed it only after I was there he brought up the friend he turned against me as proof he was correct I lost it and told him if I was there I’d smash him in the head with a baseball bat I told him I once planned to stab him to death he laughed he said why I never hurt you I’m a good person once again I became. The violent psychotic one and he was the calm innocent one when will I.learn I can never and will never win he even said I lied about having emergency surgery when I returned and that it now never happened he managed to get the negative fuel flowing this time I was out maneuvered again as usual everything melts off him like butter melting on a hot summer day sigh

  11. K,

    “You are not a CoD; I think you may be a Standard Empath and your cadre is either Magnet or Carrier.

    Was I close?”

    Yes, I think you are close. I’m not certain of school (but I know I possess some narcissistic qualities; to the extent where I did briefly wonder, at one point, if I was the narc!)
    But I was reviewing qualities of cadres (while alternating revisiting court papers to do with my ex – ugh) and I would agree that I posses characteristics of Carrier and Magnet…possibly heavier on the Carrier end (however, at times I think maybe that is only because it is what I feel is expected of me – and that I’m a Carrier in reform). I can also identify with some Saviour qualities. The only I know for sure; I am not a Geyser – I do not gush fuel. Lol.

    1. WhoCares
      Look! You did answer. I was going through the comments when I found this. I did not think you were a Geyser and I thought I was a narc too. Keep track of your narc traits so you can compare them to your empath traits. The strength and number of narc traits will help you figure it out.

      1. Thank-you K! Yes, I did answer twice because I wasn’t sure if the first reply went through…re: tracking narc vs. empath traits – yes, thanks – probably a good way to figure it out.

  12. Hi, y’all. I just wanted to share that after 14 years together, nearly 7 of those being married, this Super Empath just went Supernova on my Greater Narc. And it included an Order of Protection filed April 23, 2018, which he violated within 2 hours of being served, and as he was parked across the street from our home and was confronted by the police, he was found to have a loaded .357 magnum in the passenger’s seat of his truck. Yes, he honked and waved like a madman trying to get my attention, trying to get me to cross the street. Yes, I ignored him and called the police. Today is Day 34 of No Contact, and it is the 1 day he must spend in jail–that is, until Tuesday when his criminal attorney will learn he violated the order again by forwarding mail to me directly, that piece of mail being an official Notice of a new Credit Line Reserve Acct that he opened on May 1st in both of our names and without my knowledge, nor my consent. As we are to exchange mail through Counsel ONLY and I hadn’t received anything from his attorney in 3 weeks, my attorney contacted his after the final hearing May 21st, and my Narc claimed he’d only received junk mail but would start to set that aside. So… who commits a fraudulent act to mindf*ck his fuel supply and subsequently LIES to the best and most expensive criminal attorney in town? A Greater Narc, that’s who. And one who will soon find out he will be serving the remainder of his suspended jail sentence and, quite possibly, be sentenced to another AND paying another hefty fine. Btw, my No Contact Protection Order was awarded for 2 years, the absolute maximum in my Commonwealth state. And it can only be amended by the Court that issued it. Good riddance to bad rubbish. Isn’t that the old adage? 🤬😡👹😈😅

    1. Penelope

      Contagion is a school not a cadre. HG has not published an article strictly on this school like he has the Super Empath.

  13. Super Good post, I like this one and the Empathic Supernova too
    The girl on the current picture, though, ironically has that very intense gaze which i think ppl with NPD have.

  14. I dunno. I followed the pattern of a super empath – I was very tolerant at first, eventually I became aware, I knew I couldn’t fix things, and I escaped. It was hard but so are a lot of things in life. I didn’t break at all for the first eight months or so, and he did disengage and find someone else (for a short while). But then he ensnared me and after a few months, all hell broke loose.

    But the thing is, I don’t actually think I am all that empathic. I am my own person – emphatically so (not empathically so!). I wasn’t looking for anything serious when we met and I wasn’t difficult to seduce. (It was a mutual seduction). He was so naive in some ways that I had to warn him several times that I was protecting him from me. I am surprised I did not kick him in the balls or set his house on fire. I am a lot more volatile than he is, I have a mouth on me and I traveled to another country every year and stayed there for months. I cannot figure out why he targeted me except he miscaculated and overestimated his abilities. As I told him post-escape, I am rubber. You can bend me but you cannot break me. You can infuriate me to the point of tears (happened only once post-escape), but I will never beg you for anything and I will never come crawling back.

    I feel a bit out of place here with all of these empaths and co-dependents…:)

    1. SMH
      You may be a Super Empath. I liked this paragraph.

      “I am surprised I did not kick him in the balls or set his house on fire. I am a lot more volatile than he is, I have a mouth on me and I traveled to another country every year and stayed there for months.”

      1. Anger and hostility (narc traits)
      2. Defiance (narc trait)
      3. Independence (you are not a CoD)

      He targeted you for fuel, traits and residual benefits and some narcissists do overestimate their abilities and can’t handle an SE.

      You are feisty and I loved this:
      “You can bend me but you cannot break me. but I will never beg you for anything and I will never come crawling back.” (narc trait: defiance)

      1. Thank you, K, for reading what I wrote so carefully and responding. I also think I must be a super empath, though it sounds sort of conceited (narcissistic?) to say so. I am very defiant and have had a lot of lucky escapes. I am like a cat on its eighth life.

        For some reason, with the narc I bottled that defiance up for a long time, and tried to reason with him. I’d patiently explain what it means to be human over and over. He must have been lulled into complacency or he never would have acted the way he did post-escape. And when the final explosion came, it was fierce – weeks and weeks of it. I did feel like killing him there for awhile!

      2. You are very welcome, SMH
        I don’t think it is conceited to think that you are a Super Empath. Sometimes we are not sure where we belong and, as we read and learn more, we may realize that we belong in a different school or cadre then we originally thought.

        You were very patient and understanding (empath traits) for a long time and tried to get him to see your point of view (tenacity: empath trait) and then, finally, you had enough and caught him off guard with your escape
        (defiance). Wishing or fantasizing about killing your narcissist is a narc trait.

        Now that you are here, hopefully, you will never have to use up your eighth life. No more narcissists for you; you can retire now.

      3. LOL. Retire. I seem to be seeing narcissism in a lot of people now. I need to step back and reset. But I felt his presence this morning in that space between sleep and wake and it was calming. That hasn’t happened for awhile. I worry that the whole cycle repeats and repeats, with lower lows and higher highs until yes, something bad will happen. It’s the addiction talking and there was a trigger yesterday – a neutral one – I didn’t feel it at the time but it lodged somewhere in my consciousness.

      4. Ugh I felt him again this morning. That’s two mornings in a row of early waking and feeling his presence. This morning I was actually scared. I had this feeling or dream that men were breaking into my flat. My adult son is here so I don’t feel unprotected and I never worry about things like that. It must be me projecting about my narc breaking into my consciousness.

      5. SMH
        They are everywhere but hopefully you will never be ensnared as an IPSS or IPPS ever again. I am an NISS in 6 different fuel matrices but I know what they are and I am not bothered by it. I consider it field work.

      6. K
        I really identify with that! I recognize all the narcs around me and am in several fuel matrices also, but I know how to protect myself from abuse. Narcs are all around us. There’s nothing wrong with providing fuel as long as we understand what’s going on, and don’t get sucked into emotional thinking. It is a lot like case studies in a learning experiment!

      7. Windstorm

        I agree with you to a point….I have very little use for a lessor. They are needed in some situations yet being close to me isn’t one ;). I will admit I do have them removed and manipulate things for it to be done in situations I have to be close to them. If nothing else my husband taught me how to push their buttons.
        I don’t mind giving them “fuel” I am not in a relationship with any on an intimate level.

      8. Twilight
        I can see that. I completely avoid lessers in my personal life. Still have to interact with some when shopping and in businesses, but I keep it as cut and dried as possible.

      9. WS
        Exactly! If you can’t beat them, join them. They are everywhere and when you are an NISS it isn’t so bad. It really is a case study!

        1. I got 1 corrective devaluation.
        2. gas lighted on an order of girl scout cookies.
        3. I got my first short ST from my D.A.D. (Dirty Angel Dad)
        4. Narc Twin Lines of Defence by one of the moms. (LMRN)
        5. And Grandma Narc tried, and failed, to get negative fuel from me.

        It’s all good!

      10. K, Funny you should say ‘fieldwork’ because that’s how I thought of my time with my narc, though I completely underestimated the extent of my ensarement. I now find myself pushing away friends who I think are narcs. I had a huge explosion with one about six weeks ago. But I realize we were both overwhelmed with stuff, and we are now speaking. I’ve spent the past five weeks, since my final tussle with my mid-ranger, basically buried in work and avoiding all but a few people. I think I am getting anxious because he has an important day in two weeks. He has been out of the country and I can sense him preparing to return. Once the day passes, I should be fine (assuming he does not contact me).

      11. SMH
        Underestimated is correct. I had no clue that I was ensnared or what I was dealing with, either. It is normal to push away your narc “friends” and bury yourself in work. The one you had a huge explosion with six weeks ago isn’t going to let you go (anger is excellent fuel) and that six week hiatus was a silent treatment (probably mutual). Try not to give him/her too much fuel and don’t be surprised if your mid-ranger hoovers you on that important day. They will do anything for a hit.

      12. Yes, I am trying to keep the friend at arm’s length for awhile. We are emailing a bit and will maybe have lunch in a few weeks but I should make an escape plan just in case. As for my mid-ranger hoovering me, I guess I need a plan for that too. I feel like a mouse in a cage. I think that’s why I have been holed up at home so much. No one can get to me.

      13. SMH
        Self-isolation is normal after NPD abuse. I did it because it made me feel safe.

    2. That sounds alot like me. I told him once he picked the wrong person to f*ck with. I also told him, there is a part of me no one ever touches. I protect that part of me and because of that part of me no one hurt, that was my stength and the part of me that fought him.

      1. I also told him he picked the wrong person. I’d even ask him – why do you pursue me (including for five months across an ocean) when there are a million women out there who would be with you? I cannot tell you how many times I thought I had destroyed him (verbally) and he had no reaction until I made the mistake of calling him a man-baby. LOL. I really did mean it affectionately. He was demanding attention and I was working/traveling. But you would think I had shot him. Telling him he was a control freak, a liar, entitled, sexually abusive rolled right off of him. Man-baby sent him into a tailspin (silent treatment) for weeks. He acted like everything bounced off of him but in truth it was me that everything bounced off of.

        We have parts of us that are perhaps untouchable but it also might be that we are just very, very resilient.

      2. Probably both. Too resilient and a protected place. But I know part of what helped me to finally cut the ties was to adress how and why I became so darn relilient. I broke down places where I k ow others would not tolerate behavior and looked at why I learned to just let things roll off of me. I was sad to see the role my mother played in teaching me to be that way. I looked at some things that happened with him and I realized they were truly intolerable and so I would use him to learn to walk away from someone who ever would try to treat me similarily. I learned the heartbreak of really letting go because no one is worth trying to keep who treats me that way. Not him, not my mother anymore, no one. Its a no gain experience.

      3. Sarabella, I don’t think any experience is a no gain experience, this one included, at least for me. I won’t let anyone treat me that way anymore either but I never had before – I even told him how he got away with shit I would never tolerate from anyone. But I have an idea of why I did with him. I don’t blame him that I tolerated it, though I do blame him that there was so much to tolerate…if that makes sense. I see resilience as a strength, though I think I understand your point that it means people like us might tolerate way too much. Still, I am curious about other people and what makes them tick, so to be exposed to a psychopath – to have slept with a psychopath – is something that actually fascinates me.

      4. It was not any easy thing to do at some point. When he told me I was never his type, I let it go over me as it was only one of so many comments he said that were confusing and hurtful as they contrasted with all of the other things. But later, I used many of those same comments back to him to shame and hurt/wound him. Telling him next time, he needs to stick to his type, stay away from hurting people like me, just because he screwed over his ex’s life and she kicked him out, didn’t give him the right to go and hurt other people. I used the comments all in a way to remind him of what he had said to me, to show him there is no hope left in me, that I had heard all of the awful things he had said, and I now believed he had meant every single one of them. Told him we had no fake future as he had faked because he never liked me, described how what he had said and done showed me how he had used me, and I told him I fully believed now he hated me all along and I accept it all. There was no fake golden period he could ever drum up that would counter my blunt acceptance of what he had lied about, said and done. All I had to do was use his own words back to him and that ended it for good. It was astonishingly hard to do, to admit he had so conned me, but busting through my own shame by facing all his denigrations as the truth for him, finally set me free.

    3. I also told him once when something came up and he thought I was hiding something, “have you ever known me to bite m tongue?” And I told him once, I would tell him the truth, even of it meant losing him, I cared that much for him. Wonder if he ever understood

      1. Good point, Sarabella. I am so direct and honest that I scare people. I don’t dither. I used my skills (researcher) to uncover every one of his lies (well, probably missed a few) but, more importantly I think, to peel back the layers (such as they are) of his brain. I was really curious about his world both as an individual and socially. I figured most of it out, even to the point of identifying to him which parts of himself he was exploring with me. He will undoubtedly find other women (be my guest) but he will never be whole.

    4. I’m a Super but, with due respect to you, I have always felt this is where I belong. Particularly since I was ensnared by a Greater. Stay with us please.

  15. I would agree and one could also say that the Super Empath is a hyrbid, as you have alluded between a narcissist and empath. They have a special relationship and are attracted to narcissistic individuals, they do not dislike them… its the push pull effect,the narcissist has the qualities they like, strong, fearless, powerful, steady and decisive (they are not attracted to Lessers as they see themselves as better) however the Super Empath wants to stamp her own mark, using her intelligence, charm and empathy, compassion and her willingness to see grey and will push and pull to get her own way.She will use various tools to get a narcissist to submit and meet her in the middle, when the supernova happens they can use the tools necessary to wound and discard. They use logic and challenge fuel effectively and they know when they are done.

    SE are confident and are opposite to co-dependants.
    The paragraph below is key to understanding if you are a Super: (hint in it being Earned – we don’t give ourselves readily)
    “The Super Empath is also more challenging to the narcissist and therefore is usually the recipient of some Mid-Range narcissists and most often the Greater Narcissist. This is not because the Super Empath is awkward or reticent but rather she will be forthcoming with her empathic traits once she feels that they have been earned. Accordingly, the narcissist must put the extra miles in, in terms of seduction to ensnare the Super Empath. This person needs to be coerced into sharing the fruits of their empathy but once that trust has been earned, once the gate has been unlocked the benefits are huge”

    The SE and magnet is slippery and hard to control, the narcissist should never think they have them 100% ensnared especially if the SE is an attractive person and has many potential suitors and friends, the narcissist will have to shine greater and out win, out play and out last the others. Hence why the challenge is exciting to both, The SE can change her mind daily about whether she wants to stay or go.

    The Greater is the most difficult to disengage from as they are far more cunning and deflect, never answering truthfully, keeping the game going for as long as they choose, like a game of tennis hitting back and forth until a passing shot is made, or someone forces an error. Sometimes the SE can hit an ace if she is lucky.

    One could argue the Greater will never completely Discard the SE and the relationship, even though never being bought back to a formal relationship will be a secondary source and or NISS for life. The SE engaging would depend on how callous the narcissist was in the devaluation.

    My humble opinion : )

    1. Your humble opinion makes sense to me, Julie. I think I have both strong empathic and narc qualities but it is all situational. Question of who I am dealing with and what the context is. In the beginning of a relationship I am very empathic, as I was with him for a long time, partly because we were in different countries for months so it wasn’t hard.

      He is mid-range and I don’t think he really paid attention to who I was. Eventually, I did think almost daily about whether to stay or go. And over the course of the whole relationship, I left four times before I escaped. I think he didn’t believe me the final time because I’d left and returned so many times (though in my defense, every time I returned it was just as a friend and he would ensare me – the final time I didn’t allow it because I finally saw what he was).

      It didn’t feel like it was hard for me to be an empath most of the time – it came almost naturally because I felt that I was dealing with a child or someone with a disability. What did bother me was his control freakishness and inconsistency, even though I made few demands. I think he didn’t want me to be okay with things the way they were (IPSS) because that didn’t provide enough fuel. He wanted me to fight for him and I didn’t. He wanted me to care about his IPPS and I didn’t.

      Because my work involves people research (not psychology), and I am used to putting my personal needs last, with him I was someone I am not. It wasn’t ‘me.’ It felt like I was on another plane of existence with an alien. I thought about writing a short story about the whole thing but I don’t think I could ever adequately convey the experience!

      1. Your story resonates with me also. You seem to have answered your own questions, everytime HG would write about the SE, I wanted to someone write about a similar experience, but no one really could. I even read through the archives! I dont write about my experiences fully as I use my real name.
        I tried 4 discards also. Yes each time he never believed me either. Yes I wasnt myself I felt I became more emotional, needy which I loathe….. less confident. Contolled.To much empath not enough narc. Then I would switch, and gain back my control. And your right each experience and situation is different as are personalities.
        SMH it is difficult to write, but no judgement here :).

      2. He hated that. One moment, I was pouring out my love, then hating that it meant I lost control, and then I lashed out in anger. He even said, one moment its I love you, another, it’s hate you. He just never understood the role he played in it.

      3. I told him there are parts of you I absolutely love and parts of you I absolutely hate. They certainly do know how to bring out strong emotions. Maybe our narc parts are bored too and we want to feel these strong emotions.

      4. sarabella
        If you don’t mind sharing, what do you think your school and cadre is?

      5. Was, past tense … lol. Definitely somatic and somewhere between mid and greater. I think

      6. Yes, and the onlky way I found to balance it is to pour my empathy into my art. I put my empathy in my art, use my narc to keep away from him.

      7. Yes exactly, Julie. Thanks for your response. You put it really well: Too much empath, not enough narc. My thoughts and emotions weren’t my own. I couldn’t stop and contain myself. Totally needy. I felt like a toddler and he was my mother – I would go out into the world but wouldn’t stray far before running back. I guess that is anxious attachment, when I am usually somewhat of an avoidant. Again those styles are situational.

        Had the narc been obviously aggressive I don’t think it would have been so difficult to stay away but he was not. I read some of the stories here and I am horrified. It is helpful to talk through because no one I know personally understands it, as I am sure is the case with a lot of people on this site. Of course you know you can switch names and not use your own if you want to get more of your story out.

    2. Nailed it in the first paragraph. The push, pull his fealessness, he raced race moyorcycles. Knee touching pavement. I am in awe and always will be at that level of pure fearlessness. But he hurts. So that kills it all.

      1. Mine was fearless too, Sarabella. At first I was awed and would tell him he was superhuman. I meant it! But later I saw that he so lacked awareness that it was like he was always in a tunnel where he could only see the light at the end, and then the next light, and then the next light. Fear means you feel things…

    3. THIS. He never let me make a mark though. When I think of public social media I leave, it’s to show all that… artistic, emoathic, deep, soulful… shallow, sexual, fake Allee a dime a dozen. But I never made my mark.

      “however the Super Empath wants to stamp her own mark, using her intelligence, charm and empathy, compassion and her willingness to see grey and will push and pull to get her own way.She will use various tools to get a narcissist to submit and meet her in the middle, when the supernova happens they can use the tools necessary to wound and discard. They use logic and challenge fuel effectively and they know when they are done.”

    4. He never submitted to me. And I hate him that a part of me even now, wants to submit to him. And I can’t. Because he hates me and is too dangerous.

    5. Finally, this makes so much sense to me! It would explain why I feel like a narcissist! When confronting, standing up for yourself, outing their unacceptable behaviour, arguing back, not chasing after them, enjoying the silence period, reminding them you have boundaries, knowing what you need such as respect which is mutually reciprocated,… and then the fierce manipulations and anger that rushes through me when I am at my last tether. I have hurt, been horrendous to him in comebacks and royally erupted a few times during the years. He said I was a narc because I stood up for myself – instead of him mirroring me – I mirrored him deliciously. He will want revenge I’m sure of it. He’s too HIGH & MIGHTY to let me walk away – cut throat no contact.

      Biding my time. Thankfully he’s only a UCMRN! I’m still scared of aspects of him, hopefully i’ll shake this off the longer I keep no contact.

      But Julie – thank you for writing such clear and descriptive words! It just all makes sense. Honestly, thank you!

    6. So well said Julie. Your description of the super empath, magnet cadre is beautiful, and hints at what fuels our mojo in life. We love to be a delicious challenge to a real man. It’s such a turn on. It’s deeply disappointing when we find him to be a cheapskate or to have no balls.

  16. HG, I have a question. Is the Super Empath the only type that can go Supernova? I’ve always considered myself a codependent but past a certain point, I have gone off on the narcs in my life. Sometimes I’ve felt bad about it though not always. I’ve spit absolute fire at them and said/done things intentionally knowing that they’d burn, but I’ve also emotionally collapsed and shut down. Can a codependent also flare into a nova mode before burning out?

    1. No, but it usually is the SE that goes Supernova. There is a difference between the Supernova and other ‘fight back’ behaviour which I shall be writing about presently.

      1. HG

        Looking forward to your writing about the difference between getting mad or telling someone off and a Supernova. Then if you can find the time, an article on how every narc is not a Greater just because he put one over on you would be enlightening as well.

      2. I’m looking forward to reading that. I think it will give more clarity and certainly reduce the number of Super Empaths.

      3. Hg,

        I’m glad to hear that article is forthcoming! I get the impression that a lot of people think they are super empaths because they reached their limit, blew up and took action. But we almost all will do that if pushed far enough. I think the difference may be in what actions we take when we reach our end – or even what actions we refuse to take. But I’m looking forward to reading your fuller description. 🙂

      4. Windstorm
        Yes. To some people finally having the gumption to say NO to something would be their Supernova. It would be from the narcs point of view and I’m betting thats not HGs definition lol. To your other comment about Super Empaths-I agree. No better and nothing to aspire to-just different traits.

      5. NarcAngel
        You’re right about the narcs point of view. They think stubbing their little toe is a huge catastrophe! Just being told “No” when they’re not used to it would be a major rebellion. 😄

      6. NarcAngel
        I was scrolling through the comments and I missed this one:

        NarcAngel
        MAY 28, 2018 AT 13:47
        K
        Sounds like Churchill’s war room. Or the wall of a serial killers apartment. Either way-chart me lol.

        Ha ha ha..thanks for the laugh. I have a binder with your name on it!

      7. Im looking forward to this differentiation of supernova vs acting out.
        I stand by my version of SE and if you keep going back you are no SE you are just a super fuel provider. You are still allowing yourself to be victimized.
        I think many like to think themselves super empaths bc they feel it elevates them from the shame that goes along with having been abused. Imo a super empath is anyone who has healed and gone no contact and in many cases are helping others to do the same.

      8. HG
        Looking forward to reading about the difference between the Supernova and other “fight back” behaviour. *Cough* contagion empath *cough*…ahem, I must be coming down with a cold or something.

      9. NarcAngel
        Contagion-ous, ha ha ha…that got me laughing this morning…I was trying to be subtle with the *cough*. Oooh, I love scrapbooking and maybe I will throw in a voodoo doll to spice things to up a bit.

      10. Thank you for your reply HG. I click to follow new comments and posts, I don’t know why I don’t receive them.

        Did said article on fighting back get posted already?

  17. This is interesting
    ~ The co-dependent gains validation from such acts through giving and has to do this to an excessive degree even when it goes beyond what is good for themselves,

    When I didn’t have the chance to make someone smile or motivate or just help someone my day seems so empty and shallow . When I do got the chance to help people eventough more tired than the day before after doing that I feel so fullfilled and happy in love with love (literally a sucker for love) . Like a bird could shit on me and I would laugh it off .

    Its so amazing and weird that I understand more about myself because off reading your work . You def know us better than we do I guess…

    1. Indeed, since I have spent a long time interacting with your time and observing and considering.

  18. I have no idea, but I would like to. How do you determine HG? Do you have a list of questions? A flow chart? It seems like it would be difficult to pin down in an hour consult. I know it’s just a label and one shouldn’t get hung up on it, but it’s sort of like a diagnosis. And if it comes from HG, it had to be accurate!

      1. Well ima book a consultation so you can figure me out if you’re up for the challenge.

      2. MB
        If you book a consult and would like to share your school/cadre with me, I would be much obliged.

      3. If he figures me out, I’ll let you know. I have a feeling it will be “it’s complicated” 😂

      4. Good afternoon K
        Just finished another lovely consultation with HG. In preparation for our meeting, I reviewed the various articles pertaining to the schools and the cadres. I was able to see some traits in myself from nearly all cadres. Carrier was the one that resonated the most and it turns out, that’s where I fit according to the expert. By process of elimination (determining what I am not) I fit soundly in the standard empath school. So there you go. Standard Carrier Empath is my “diagnosis” for recording in the annals of the narcsite library. Thank you for being interested.

      5. Excellent, MB!
        Thanks for sharing. Carrier is the Cadre I relate to the most, too, and I have made a note of your school, as well.

      6. I can see that about you K. Thank you for being here and doing all you do for us! You have a new picture. Your babies?

      7. My pleasure, MB!
        Faster than a speeding bullet! More powerful than a supernova! Able to leap tall buildings in a single bound! Super Empath!!!

        That is a pic of me and my twin. He is a narcissist and I am the cute empath on the left. We were two when that picture was taken.

      8. So sweet. I’m sorry he’s a narcissist. The bond between twins is so special. I hate that BOTH of you were cheated out of being able to share that.

      9. Thank you for your kind words, MB!
        I hadn’t really thought much about my brother until I started posting here and watching other twins interact IRL. There are two sets of fraternal twins in my daughter’s second grade class. They REALLY love each other and it is wonderful to witness that. You are correct, both me and my brother were cheated by NPD abuse and there is no bond between us at all.

      10. It is sad for both of you K. It’s times like these that remind me of Oprah’s favorite definition of forgiveness. “Forgiveness is giving up the hope that the past could be any different.”

        An empath giving up hope is damn near impossible! We know in our minds we can’t change the past no matter how hard we try, but our hearts hold onto hope. (Only Narcs can rewrite history to suit them!)

        Letting go is so hard.

      11. MB
        It is very sad and I understand Oprah. We can’t change the past, although, sometimes I wish it were different but I don’t dwell on it much because it is like crying over spilled milk; pointless. Empaths most certainly do hold onto hope; I did and letting go can be heartbreaking.
        Yup, narcs gas light really well when it suits them.

      12. MB
        He is really good at this and I bet he will figure it out in a jiffy. Happy Birthday!

      13. Thank you K! I know he will. I’m just goofing around. He probably already has as much as I’ve talked with him! I’ll let you know the diagnosis.

      14. MB
        Happy Birthday!!🎁🎊🎉🎂🎈
        Hope you have a great day and a successful consultation!

      15. MB

        Hope your day is filled with not only answers to questions, wonder, laughter and love!
        Happy Birthday!

      16. Thank you Twilight! Lotsa love already this morning with all you blog beauties! Only a miracle could get me in with HG on such short notice. He’s a popular guy. A gift nevertheless whenever we do get to speak.

      17. MB

        He is very much in demand, his insights are unattainable.
        Regardless of when this consult happens it will be worth it, and you will walk away with an accurate view of your personal situation.

        You enjoy your day and remember just how strong, beautiful and amazing you are and the path you now walk on can be very different then the one you did.

      18. Twilight
        Scientists ARE making progress with cloning. Maybe an HG toenail clipping or belly button hair could be donated to the cause. Legacy issue solved indefinitely! Of course if you’ve seen the movie Multiplicity with Michael Keaton, they got dumber with each cloning. HG is starting out with an above average IQ, so he’s good for at least two or three repeats.

      19. MB
        Hsha. Then HGs Housekerper and Butler are sitting on a gold mine.

      20. MB

        Ewww I can think of cleaner genetic material to use.
        Yet he wouldn’t be the HG we have all come to know.

      21. I can imagine that HGs toenails and finger nails are pristine. And I don’t imagine any body hair at all, with the weekly mani/pedi and waxing. Heck, he gets his hair cut every two weeks! He’s high maintenance! Haha

      22. I am sure they are, yet I still find belly hair and toe nails…..ewwww. I was traumatized once with both, just the thought makes me gag.

      23. No bad teeth too… thats a bigggg no no.noone likes a meth mouth yucky.. i have bad teeth phobia ((shudder))

      24. Julie

        Ha ha I understand that one. I was in the dental field for almost 23 years. I look or smell and start diagnosing in my head. One because I always want to help and two because sometimes knowing to much really gets my imagination running like wildfire.

        Meth mouth is about the saddest thing I have ever witnessed.

      25. Twilight..
        Im to the phobic about a guys teeth.. probley not healthy with the exteme but he could be like a jason moma demi god and if i see ANYTHING with the teeth he must goooo… shudder. Straight & white .. period. I should see if there is a single dentist.com. Id probley even find my twin flame LOL!! Jk… no man could tolerate me today at the very least..sunburned af & threw my back out again riding yesterday grrrrrrrr im a damn hot mess today.. but id do it again haha

      26. Twilight.. yuck (pardon HG) but they are the worst of them.. slimy coniving liars who cant keep their dicks in their pants.. pfft

      27. Julie

        Lol no they are not the worse.
        I have known some, outside of my professional life that are way worse.
        They are only following what is natural to them.
        They “prey” now is learning to spot and be able to defend themselves.

      28. Twilight..
        lol! Probley true also. My exhole is a cop . Probley worse than a dentist. Ha
        But those greaters a piece of work for sure. Cant put flowers in an asshole and call it a vase i suppose😂

      29. I’ll just apologize now.. Im cranky and wallflowering the blog this week. threw my back out on the bike the other day grrrrr. Ornery girl over here rawrrr lol

  19. Hg, if a MR narc is still in the golden period with his new source will he even remember significant dates from his and my relationship? I am wondering if those significant dates are still hoover triggers even a year after my discard?

    1. They are hoover triggers but the new IPPs in a golden period is a significant factor in the HEC which means a hoover is extremely unlikely.

    2. For what it’s worth, my midranger couldn’t remember any significant dates when he was still in OUR golden period. 5 years into the relationship, he still couldn’t remember my birthday. He couldn’t even get the month right. The first day we had sex? I remember the exact date, but I realized, four years later, that he couldn’t even remember the event at all or where we even were. That stung. So much for thinking it was special…

      1. Purpleinnature, he might have just been pretending because it mattered to you. HG has a post on this – how they use things that matter to you against you.

        I once went NC on my mid-ranger while I was out of the country without telling him. I simply stopped responding. But previous to that he had asked me when I was returning and I told him. Literally three hours after I landed, I received my first message in a month from him ‘where are you?’ Not only did he act like nothing had happened (it had), he knew exactly when I was returning but pretended not to. He pretended not to know a lot of things that he did know.

      2. SMH – I thought of this, but when he went to do our taxes without letting me know or inviting me with him, he started texting me “Quick! When’s your birthday? I’m doing our taxes and need to know!” I was feeling especially cheeky that day “When do you think it is?” I texted. He guessed and got the year right, but the month and day were about a week off from his ex-wife’s birthday! I was really kind of dumb founded and pissed off, so I texted back “Tomorrow. My birthday is tomorrow.” (It wasn’t) Lol.

        I really do hope he was lying about not remembering when we first had sex. Ouch. That hurt. Not that it really matters anymore, I guess.

        Oh – guess who paid the entire $4,000 tax bill and feverishly ensured they were filed on time?

      3. Ouch is right, purpleinnature. But still I wouldn’t be so sure it wasn’t manipulation. The only time mine ‘remembered’ my birthday was because he contacted me that day. Of course because I had told him a few days before that it was my birthday, and he contacted me the day of (weekend was rare), and then refused to say happy birthday for two hours, I knew he did it on purpose trying to get some fuel out of me.

        We had 3000 emails between us over 2 years. He knew when I was returning from abroad, though he pretended he didn’t; he knew when I left the country, even though he pretended he couldn’t remember, he knew it was my birthday, even though he pretended he didn’t. Yours was likely trying to get fuel too (and money, it seems!). I made mine delete his copies of all our emails in front of me on my computer just a few weeks ago. IN THE TRASH! Just like him :-).

      4. SMH – Lol. Yes. Hit the Delete button. Too bad there’s no “Control-Z”. It will be very interesting if he tries to Hoover me on my birthday this year. We shall see.

      5. Purpleinnature
        Next year file “married filing separately.” That’s what I did. I could never trust mine to file accurately and I didn’t want to end up audited or in jail. I never had to pay any that way either.

      6. WS – Hmmm… I was planning on filing as “Head of Household”, but I wonder what’s going to happen if our divorce drags on. I’ll have to look into that. Yeah… that’s why I had to take over the taxes after he started them. If I hadn’t bent over backwards to get them done and paid, they just wouldn’t have been.

    1. K
      Glad I gave u a laugh! I’m serious, though. You know the old saying, “This hurts me more than it hurts you?” That’s literally true with me. If I were to supernova on someone, the emotions they would feel would hurt me more than if I had held my tongue. I can’t even imagine trying to get even or get revenge. My mind doesn’t think that way.

      I have learned how to disengage, pull away, and protect myself from abuse, and sometimes I accidentally hurt people. But I try never deliberately to do anything hurtful because it literally will hurt me more. I know some people see that as weakness, but I am true to myself and that shows its own type of strength.

      1. Windstorm

        It is not weak, if I could go back I would try and control the anger I felt. He wouldn’t let up and I miscarried, I sure as hell wasnt thinking straight.
        Yet I have gone toe to toe with them, and they will cross a line I pray I never do again. They can keep that job. When looking back I was just standing my ground with them.

      2. Twilight
        We all do what we have to do at the time. I’m sure not going to claim my way is best – I live alone in the woods, for goodness sake!

        Last night I was sad thinking of a trivial thing that made my then 1 year old granddaughter cry a year ago. I felt her pain so clearly at the time that the memory has stayed with me. No one else on earth remembers this event, but still my memory of it hurts me. If I could stop that kind of torture to myself I would in a heartbeat.

      3. Windstorm

        My ex doesn’t realize the “ever presence” he left with me.
        I think that explains the part in my letter you will always have a part of me.

        If I could I would live in the woods…..there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I am out on medical leave from work and my son lives out in the woods…..so I go and spend time with my family.

        I have serious trust issues to, yet being able to feel the world has more to do with that then any experience I have gone through.

        Time to greet the morning!

      4. Yes! Its not intentional. But they go too far. I also wonder what if I had any bit of control then that I do now? He told me, over and over, to control myself. I could not. He was too hurtful to do that. But what if if could havr? I will never know.

      5. WS
        You are such a softie! I don’t think you are weak at all and you should be true to yourself. As long as you can recognize abuse and disengage, that is all that matters. We are all wired differently and revenge isn’t for everyone. It is really interesting to see what school and cadre we are; I can’t wait for contagion to come out.

      6. I see this as Love for self Windstorm . You wouldn’t do anything to someone else you would’nt like to experience yourself .

        You walk with the truth(enlightenment)

      7. WS, I couldn’t either once. It ittt unfathomable that it test all happened. It hurt me through and through, but I was only half conscious what I did. I think what is what makes the Super Nova so brilliantly crazy and powerful from a Super Empath. Its mot calculated. It just flares up, not unlike a narc rage. Its pure fireworks and not calculated like a greater. Right HG?

        I many times wish it hadn’t happened. I backed myself into a corner I can never get it of with him. But on the other hand, it was all designed to protect myself and it had to happen anyway it needed to happen.

  20. More on superheros: masochists are both charismatic and shy, awkward nerdy misfits. That’s why you got the Clark Kent – Super Man, Diana Prince – Wonder Woman (He-man, etc.) dichotomy. Not all masochists are superheros, but all superheros are masochists who get power from vulnerability and idealistic love. Their self-destruction is part of their process of transformation. Even Batman, a more complex figure, defeated his narcissistic defences by accepting his pain, which was ‘in shadow’ – and appears as a cloud of bats, hence he fights for love, but from a dark power. He has a stupid rich playboy facade, but underneath he’s a warrior monk. He hurts the women he loves, but he really loves them. That’s a bit of a dangerous myth, but it explores an ambiguous boundary between good and evil aka the ‘effects of power’. Maybe Batman’s independent girlfriend is the Super that is being discussed here, more than the masochism of superheroes. A narc will respect someone independent more, also they provide more of a distance buffer that doesn’t trigger their fear of intimacy too soon.

    I think Bates is a narcissist who has limited but dedicated empathy in the form of trust and loyalty. He doesn’t like his birth family, doesn’t trust people, except his partner who is his anchor. But he’s monogamous.

    1. /iroll
      I am interested in knowing what you think your school and cadre is, if you do not mind sharing it?

      1. K – i’m a geyser, but an introverted one. Don’t know the schools.

      2. K,

        I know what my pokemon is: https://goo.gl/images/5HAH12

        That’s me, a geyser, and on the right is a malignant narcissist, like HG or Jaws, and they’re floating a false benevolent self above the water.

        I can sense evil immediately, when i was a baby one of these i would start charging up and fire off >>> pew pew pew pew! But now i’m learning to stay calm and strategise, hone my powers and level-up.

      3. /iroll
        Ha ha ha….I have made a note of your Pokemon and you can use your Great Balls, Ultra Balls and Super Potions to establish a healthy no contact regime to protect yourself from Jaws.

      4. Thanks K

        Unfortunately i’ve been danging my sparkly self in water and shimming around and then blasting the narc. But it makes me too happy, and i have to work on my evolutions.

        Healthy regime! >.<

      5. K – also, your picture is really crazy!

        Maybe you’d like the work of Yayoi Kusama. I think she’s one of the greats.

      6. /iroll
        Ha ha ha…I have been thinking about changing my pic because I am “less angry” as of late. I googled Yayoi Kusama and I loved the black/white polka dots she put all over George Clooney for W magazine. I really like her work and she reminds me of my gravatar. Have fun working on your evolutions and beware of Giovanni, he looks like a malignant narc.

    2. Interesting iroll.. I like batman.. ..especially the Christian Bale ones….he is a good actor!
      But I’ve always thought that just as bones break and get denser, I think certain empaths get stronger after they are broken so many times. You cannot destroy what is already broken can you?

      I’m not entirely sure what kind of empath I am but there is a certain power in vulnerability.

      1. Michelle,

        Vulnerability is our real self, the self that can evolve by developing depth from being open to the world – aka, being affected by it. World-awareness and self-awareness are an ongoing mutual feedback. But vulnerability also allows us to get hurt. So it’s an evolutionary risk. Everything is.

        Narcs of HG’s variety, less so of Bale’s kind, (though Bale is still extremely mistrustful, egocentric and puts too much moral emphasis on material values, but that’s due to his childhood trauma, less so than his lack of empathic capacity, etc). —really hate the world and the people in it, to a very cynical degree.

        They ain’t letting information from the world in at all, other than what they can use to boost their own material power and sense of superiority. They get a sense of security from the ideal of having absolute control, not only over their environment but also their inner-selves. Extreme narcissists are self-rejecting for self-gain. They kill off their own (shameful, liable) vulnerability in order to be efficient social climbers and users, in order to build their security aims. They have a fragility to them, because their hostility towards the world is linked to self-loathing, but they blame others for that – and defend themselves from that state with extreme hostility.

        For eg. if i ever gave my father, a toxic narcissist, sympathy or just attempted to make ‘genuine contact’, he would react with hostile paranoia: i was trying to target his vulnerability in order to gain a power position. He’s not ‘weak’ like ordinary people, he’s superior and special. I need to learn that i’m weaker than him, and i will be taught that by being punished. The narc rejects their need for others, by making others ‘need’ them, because of how the pain of rejection affects us… which proves to them that we were the weak, needy ones afterall. We slow them down and get in the way with our weakness. They don’t need our ‘compassion’ – that’s a trap for dupes, where we use the facade of compassion to suck them dry and take everything they built – on their OWN!!!!

        They don’t really ‘get’ empathy, what they target is our vulnerability.

        We can lose our naivety about how violence works, i don’t think you can gain wisdom without knowing what love or freedom is not – but people can also be very damaged. Suffering is a part of wisdom, but not all suffering leads to wisdom. If that makes sense.

        Take the extreme narcissist as an example, did their suffering lead them to wisdom or to internalise the very authority than oppressed them? HG said that he hated his mother, but was jealous of her power. This gives us an insight into how they experience jealousy instead of love and their emotional responses are based on power not empathy.

        Thanks for sharing that, btw. HG.

      2. Iroll.. ..thanks for that info…. you seem to know a lot about the actor!

        I don’t believe in evolution. You need a whole lot of faith to believe in that.

        I did a painting….. all the colours just lept onto the canvas….it was quite extraordinary!!!

        If evolution was true then why are there still monkey’s?!

        But yes vulnerability, it does seem to draw Narcs!

      3. There is one way in which a psychopathic narcissist might target empathy + character traits, specifically – more so than a regular NPD type, and I think that may have to do with their need to predict how a person thinks and behaves. To better affect and hence control them.

        I think the more intelligent psychopathic individuals can abstractly understand emotions, but can’t deal with or in them, or not for long periods of time.

        Perhaps a regular NPD thinks they have empathy but is really borrowing another person’s empathy to mirror themselves – as part of building an ideal self-image.

        A psychopathic or sociopathic narcissist knows they’re not like others, may or may not understand what that difference is – but instinctively recognise ’empathic vulnerability’ as an opportunity for manipulation. Pro-social psychopaths see manipulation as a means to practical ends, a narcissistic one however, needs to hurt others as part of a more complex addiction, but also inevitably hurts them because they feel no emotional connection.

        Intentional cruelty for games is followed by the reality of detached coldness.

        No emotional person should even have to adapt to survive that, seeking love from a narcissistic psychopath is just doom – because it doesn’t exist. They can adapt to defend themselves from it though, by recognising it exists.

      4. Michelle,

        Why are there still monkeys? Because they fit their environment and the environment itself would change without them. Not sure what evolution means to you, but Darwin’s theory is about niche adaptation. There are also costs, biological life is vulnerable and politics can protect or make it precarious. It’s certainly not this linear process with any predetermined meaning from our single viewpoints, anyway.

        The main point is, we aren’t meant to develop superpowers by surviving bullshit. We won’t thrive in an abusive relationship, we’ll only get addicted to scarce affection because we’re going into a primal survival mode. Long-term that has destructive effects. Even enablers who might feel like they’re gaining vicariously through the dominant partner, are sacrificing parts of themselves too, they’re no longer free to self-create and be accountable.

        Superpowers through ‘the power of destruction’ alone, might be similar to some narcissistic ‘magical thinking’ though.

        Creativity is something else. If you don’t work with limitations even as you’re exploring them, you can’t really create. I do think there are patterns to life that offer more possibilities than humanity is currently exploring, outside of science, because it can’t get over basic power monopolies.

        So, that’s my faith. We must destroy the empire, clearly.

  21. “Accordingly, the narcissist must put the extra miles in, in terms of seduction to ensnare the Super Empath.”

    What is the longest Golden Period in a Narcissist Super Empath dynamic that you know about (from yours or other narcissist’s experience)?

  22. I find co-dependents work more submissively than masochistically, as in they’re sacrificing their feelings, similar to how the narc functions (self-sacrifice or compartmentalisation is a requirement in any sustained and immersive narc relationship), in order for a relationship, or even a work situation, to function at the superficial and material level. They will often focus on the minutiae obsessively, everything is efficient rather than emotionally honest. A masochistic response is to self-destruct because the situation is not functional at the emotional – psychological level. Co-dependents can sacrifice others, including children, for the relationship to work under an aggressor’s authority. It’s only when they wake up to the situation (become more honest, change their priorities), that they have to confront their own issues and realise that they are both hurt and complicit, but usually they have too much perfectionist pride and fear, perhaps also guilt, to acknowledge that. They are contained by the relationship and become passive-aggressively controling as a way to ‘express’ their repressed true feelings. That’s my impression. Performing a role to perfection also means you can have control over that domain and gain power through people’s reliance on you.

    If a Super! is not at all masochistic or submissive in their giving, most superhero’s in comic books are actually masochists, it’s a known trope (they wear leotards and fight both monsters and the status quo), then the narc must be providing a good illusion. Good people express their goodness by serving society at some level, deserving = serving, but with a self-defined purpose. The narc might be providing the material structure where they can serve and feel purposeful on a larger scale. I personally find it impossible not to know that someone is abusive or deceitful in some way. I’m too attuned to emotions, subtle cues and inconsistencies to ignore it.

  23. The empathic individual, who can «crawl through a river of shit» and still come out clean on the other side.
    The Super Empath, who will always head for brighter days.
    The Super Empath with close friends, who share their stories as often as they can.
    But the Super Empath is not meant to be caged. Their magnetic shine is just too bright. And when they find their way out, there will be a part of you that knew it was a sin to lock them up, and the place you must continue to live in is that much more drab and empty when they are gone.

    1. Beautiful. I shine. Even when I don’t know it. I will always shine though I have been through hell and back many times. I shine because people have told me I do. Never try to cage me, because you can’t. But if you make it safe and lovr me, I will be the brightest light in your life. Or not. I hope “my” narc is enjoying his prostitutes.

    2. Dear Sarabella,
      Thank you for your kind comment. The text is re-written quotes from one of my feel-good movies (Shawshank Redemtion).

      You just stay strong and continue to always shine bright. No matter what happens, no one can take that away from you.

      As for the labels of the different empathic groups, I find myself in more then one of the schools and cadres.
      But the label is not so important. The important part is to like who you are and to proudly stand behind the person you want to be, and can be.

      Stay strong and shine empathically bright. That look is always beautiful🌟

  24. HG, is the Greater less likely to hoover if the Super Empath escapes? I got a preventative hoover in which my response was a restraining order. However, recently (its only been No Contact since March 13th), I started to get calls on my cell and when I answered, the caller would hang up. I waited a couple of days and called the number and a sweet, kind young woman answered. I asked her why she was calling me and hanging up . . . she was unaware. Then it dawned on me, s***, its my replacement. Poor girl. I asked her name and she told me duh!
    What is my ex doing???? Why????

  25. Great article HG. I still cant figure out which way I lean though. I read codependent then read super empath and I see both? Is that even possible? Yep, I have a label crisis ..

    1. Julie – me too! I believe I am a super empath that developed co-dependent qualities in childhood. I have lived with an intense, constant fear of dis-pleasing people. But… all my life, when I realize that someone is out to harm me, I become very strong and resilient and I kick ass. The only problem is that I can’t see that someone has bad intentions until all hell breaks loose. Also, I can withstand an almost endless amount of abuse and still function at almost 100%.

      I have changed dramatically just in the last couple months. My co-dependency is melting away. Finally! I still have a long road of healing ahead, but I have never felt so confident in myself. I really don’t care what other people think of me anymore. I don’t need the world to approve of me anymore. Approval is not love. It’s a wonderful realization to finally internalize. Even in my current damaged state, I am finally conscious of how much I shine, the way HG describes.

      It sounds a little woo-woo, but I can actually perceive the bright light I show that attracts “them” with just a smile or comment. I have encountered two of them in the last couple weeks, and I can actually see them now as they perk up and notice. Creepy. They’re so friendly! Steer clear little empath.

      So – I do believe it’s possible to be both. Shed those co-dependent chains around you and shine!! 🙂

      1. Purple in nature
        Good for you! Hold on and stay true to yourself. That’s all that matters!

      2. Purpleinnature,

        Agreed:

        “Also, I can withstand an almost endless amount of abuse and still function at almost 100%.”

        When I read this sentence it struck me so hard; I realize just how high- functioning I was during my abuse situation.

        Perhaps the co-dependent part as well – only, now that I know that, while I can give nearly everything of myself in some circumstances…now; almost the second that I realize that my efforts are being exploited, I am capable of turning it off.

        My problem is that I don’t know how to reapply that empathy in a way that is not damaging to me at the same time… I don’t know how to reinvest that empathy safely; but it’s in my nature to be empathetic so I have chosen to shut it down for now even though it hurts me to do it.

        Anyway, thank-you for sharing Purpleinnarture. You words have helped me sort some stuff out.

        Shine on!

        P.S.
        A personal example of the new me; I recently encountered someone on the street who has a really good scheme for asking people for money; it’s quite clever and would work with many caring, distracted people. I realized that I had seen him previously had heard his ‘script’ before. I practically laughed in his face and called him out on it. Perhaps not the wisest thing to do because he interrupted his ‘act’ to ask me how I could know that. I ignored him and then watched him cross the street to successfully get money from another unsuspecting person using the same ploy.

        Objectively, I was both appalled and proud of my callousness…normally, I’d be scrounging in my pocket for funds (that I actually needed for myself) to give to someone; instead I saw the transparency instantly. I’m not proud of the laughing part but I wasn’t being mean it just happened because I couldn’t believe how bold he was to try it out on so many people.

        I know it seems like a small isolated example but it was revolutionary for me. I need practice choosing to excercise my compassion, lol.

      3. You are such a cheeky monkey, WhoCares
        Do you know your School and Cadre? And if so, would you like to share?

      4. Good for you! I identify with you very much. I don’t even realize I’m being abused until way late. Codependent traits are a thing of the past. I’m glad it’s working as such for you. It’s nice to hear stories of empowerment!

      5. Whocares – I think that’s great! Maybe not necessary, and a little risky, but I hate it when I’m approached for money because I know it’s almost always a scam, so I have no problem saying “no”. I’m usually a little too nice about, though, so I love that you told him off! There was this one time that a guy with no legs in a wheelchair came up to my car asking for money. I thought “Okay. That’s a pretty good one.” and I did decide to give him some money.

        Another thought about being able to withstand abuse and still function – I think it helps keep us in denial. If you’re still functioning, healthy, doing well at work, keeping the house clean, taking care of yourself, etc, it’s a lot easier to tell yourself that everything’s fine. “Problem? What problem? Okay… we fight sometimes, but everybody fights, right? This is fine. Everything’s fine.” …as I’m screaming all the way home in my car where no one can hear me. Lol. Actually, I think that helps me function. I’ll allow myself to have a complete meltdown where no one can hear me, then I’ll dust myself off, tell myself I’m being dramatic, put my smile back on and get back to work. No more of that. My meltdowns are completely warranted. I have been abused. Feels good to acknowledge it.

        No more listening to my Dad’s voice ringing in my head telling me to quit crying, suck it up and “Boy, you sure can suffer. Here… let me get a hammer and hit your toe, then your finger won’t hurt as bad. Hahahaha.”

      6. Hi K,

        “Do you know your School and Cadre? And if so, would you like to share?”

        ‘Cheeky monkey’ here…hehe; no one’s ever called me that.

        Um, I am not 100% certain…I have some thoughts about what I am but before I hazard a guess; I’m curious what your opinion is? (I won’t be offended if you’re right/wrong.) I just know that you are observant; so you may have some insight that I’m blind to, lol.

      7. WhoCares
        You are not a CoD; I think you may be a Standard Empath and your cadre is either Magnet or Carrier.

        Was I close?

      8. Purpleinnature,

        “…about being abthat’sle to withstand abuse and still function – I think it helps keep us in denial.”

        Yes, you are so right. It also doesn’t help with perspective to outsiders looking in; on the surface we look like we are holding it together or dealing ‘well’ but in reality things are a shambles.

        Re: your Dad’s voice in your head – that’s brutal. Glad you’re done with that!

      9. Thanks. Yeah… He really drilled into my head that nothing is ever bad enough to be able to call yourself a victim. He very rarely expressed hot anger, for some reason, but he always dismissed my pain by saying “Boy, you sure can suffer” and making fun of me, even if I was crying. No one kissed my boo-boos when I was little (except maybe my Grandma if she happened to be around. She loved me.). I remember intensely trying to get some sort of sympathy from him when I hurt myself or when my feelings were hurt, but of course, I realize now that he had no sympathy to give. My mom… she was busy doing dishes or something. At least my dad recognized that I existed.

      10. I was thinking about my personal story about the guy asking me for money and my choice of the word ‘callousness’ – and the importance of word and context when discussing points of view. And I thought how interesting that in describing my decision to self-protect so that I wasn’t damaged (when I’m in repair mode) I framed my actions as both positive and negative (proud and appalled – yet necessary to protect myself from letting my empathy get the best of me) when I was 100% sure that the guy asking for money was putting on an ‘act’ or a con to get said money. And it’s the same qualities (selfishness & lack of empathy) that I needed to protect myself but when we identify those qualities being used by a narcissist to protect their ‘self’, as it exists for them; we deem those traits as ‘evil.’ (I think that the english language is somewhat limited in discussing these things.) I think that while, in the case of a Greater, who can self-reflect, one can make a choice about whether or to identify those behaviours as ‘necessary’ or ‘evil’ (evil as a cultural construct). It is harder to label a Lesser or Mid-ranger as ‘evil’ because they have no insight and simply do what is necessary to their existence.

        Does this make any sense? We label some behaviours as evil because it is ‘them’ and we don’t understand that perspective. But in our own cases we label these behaviours as ‘self-preservation’ and self-care – despite that the narc also does it from the need to self-preserve (as we understand it through HG’s work.)

      11. Who cares
        Makes sense to me. In order to really understand a situation, we have to step out of ourselves and our own personal perspective and view it as a dispassionate observer. I think that’s what HG means when he says we have to stop our emotional thinking.

        But it’s not just necessary with narcissists, but necessary to understand anything. And it’s damn hard to do! We naturally look at all situations thru our own personal perspective often with no awareness that we are doing so. It’s probably instinctive and instincts are hard to move beyond.

        I’ve also heard what you said about English being a very imprecise language in the written form. Supposedly written German is much less likely to be misunderstood. But then I value English for its very ambiguity. My personal belief is that all truth is relative and therefore in flux. What better way to express oneself than thru an ambiguous language?

      12. WhoCares
        Great observations. We are exactly alike but completely different. We have similar traits to varying degrees and each of us (both narc and empath) use them for protection. However, our empathy tempers our narc traits so they can be used for “good” purposes, too. The narc has no empathy and cannot temper those traits so he will park his car on your lawn and trample all over your rose garden.

        All narcissists are wired for self-defense and, irrespective of awareness/self-reflection, they cannot choose not to be a narcissist. They are both compelled and impelled to behave the way they do.

        Because they lack empathy, they have no moral compass, guilt or remorse they cannot feel the “evilness or badness”, therefore, they do not think of themselves as bad/evil. Even if they cognitively know it, that feeling is completely absent. It is nothing personal; it is just the way it has to be. Their survival is paramount and we are just collateral damage.
        And that is why NC is the best solution to this conundrum.

      13. Yes. I’ve struggled with this very concept. Although we are abused and very deeply hurt, it is only from our perspective. From the narcissist’s perspective, they are only protecting themselves. Though their perspective is based on delusions, the threat still feels very real to them. When I really allow myself to absorb this, it fills me with an unbearable sadness at the loss of potential in such a damaged human being. It is the reason we must go no contact and the reason there can never be true closure.

      14. Windstorm, K, and Purpleinnature,

        I really appreciate your comments! I wasn’t really expecting responses – nice surprise – and especially the confirmation that others understand it in a similar way.

        “we have to step out of ourselves and our own personal perspective and view it as a dispassionate observer. I think that’s what HG means when he says we have to stop our emotional thinking.”

        Yes, I agree Windstorm…it is sometimes so easy to jump on the ‘narcissist = EVIL’ bandwagon  (especially with respect to our own personal narcissists) but it is the stepping back, the objective listening that is necessary to ever fully understand anything – especially something so emotionally charged as the topic of Narcississm.
        And personally I think with the intent of learning; if one cannot be dispassionate, then some diplomacy is a minimum requirement.
        On the topic of language; I’m just happy that we have a common language here (especially HG’s terms and labels) and an understanding that allows us to begin to articulate this.

        K,

        Thank-you for explaining your perspective it definitely helps in further elucidation. And, yes, empaths, in general struggle greatly with taking it personally!

        “It is nothing personal; it is just the way it has to be. Their survival is paramount and we are just collateral damage.”

        Yep, ‘collateral damage’ is a more diplomatic term.

        Purpleinnature,

        I agree with everything you say, and I sometimes also feel that great sadness for narcs that you speak of, but with regard to the following quotation,

        “When I really allow myself to absorb this, it fills me with an unbearable sadness at the loss of potential in such a damaged human being.”

        – I keep having to remind myself  that a narcissist doesn’t feel damaged or see themselves that way (as HG has repeatedly pointed out)

    2. K – sorry, I thought I had responded…

      “You are not a CoD; I think you may be a Standard Empath and your cadre is either Magnet or Carrier.

      Was I close?”

      I think you were close with the cadre of Magnet and Carrier…when I first started reading here I thought the description of Carrier was bang on, but now I’m not sure. I feel like I’m two different people somedays but I think that is because I’m fighting my natural inclination.
      Thank-you for your input.

      I’m still not certain of what school.
      I guess there is only one way to get the definitive answer…

      1. No worries, WhoCares!
        Communication on a blog isn’t always easy and I have failed to respond to comments before, and you don’t have to apologize or explain; I am a low stress empath.

        I think you are a carrier and I am leaning towards SE, however, I wasn’t sure so I put you in Standard. I will get a better sense of what school you may be as I read your comments. I am waiting for contagion so I can decide which school fits the best.

  26. I came across these two guys on quara a month or two ago they both claim to be narcs but insist they have empathy but don’t use it or something don’t remember exactly, they also claim there’s no such thing as an empath ,that it’s not even in the dictionary , that people have empathy but there’s no such thing as an empath.
    On a side note before I discovered your site or any others on narcissist I thought an empath meant having clairvoyant or psychic abilities, possibly even being a medium. I had a few of these people on my Facebook friends list and oddly enough one day one of them messaged me out of the blue and said ” I just want you to know your an empath , among other things “. This was before I knew about empaths in regards to narcissist , I thought he was telling me I’m psychic, I messaged him back and asked him to clarify what he was trying to tell me but he never responded.

      1. I haven’t got the slightest idea i.identify with the carrier and magnet cadre as far as the school I would say regular empath but there’s many times I don’t even think I’m an empath I know I’m not codependent or a super empath I asked hg and he said I’m an empath but he didn’t have enough info to determine which kind I also know I’m not a geyser

      2. Thank you, Ugotit. I think you are an empath, too, and it seems like your School is Standard and I have made a note of the Cadres: carrier and magnet, as well. Thanks for sharing.

      3. K
        Haha. Are you mapping out an empath flow chart of commenters on your livingroom wall?

      4. Damn straight NA! I have flow charts, power points, slideshows, top secret dossiers and a dart board (my MMRN is the bullseye). JK! My notes are all in Microsoft Word, scribbled on my blotter or on index cards.

      5. Ha ha ha… thanks for the laugh!!! I would love it if you were my sister from another mother! I am outnumbered and I could use another empath on my side.

      6. K
        Sounds like Churchill’s war room. Or the wall of a serial killers apartment. Either way-chart me lol.

  27. Once again reading thru this brings home that I am not a super empath- never have been, never will be. Neither am I a codependent.

    1. Windstorm.. I have read this 3x lol. I’ll have to read again on codependency today. Im not sure what I am either. Alot of super empath traits yet a few codependent ones I see as well. Im a hybrid if its possible? Idk. It gets confusing for me. Ughh

      1. Julie
        It is a continuum. Everyone doesn’t fit in a box with a label. Sometimes it’s as helpful to know what you are not as much as what you are.

        I guess my comment was because so many people think that they are super empaths and that’s one category I can definitely rule out for me. I couldn’t supernova if my life depended on it. I can also rule out codependent. I have zero desire to “fix” others or manage their lives. The only category HG has written about that really fits me is contagion. That one screams my name! 😄

        Don’t worry about which, if any, box you fit into. Just keep learning as much as you can and life will make more and more sense. ❤️

      2. Julie
        You will have many traits overlapping, however, go with whatever dominates, and sometimes you have to read the articles a few times to get a better sense of the schools and the differences. If you want to know for sure you can consult with HG.

      3. Julie

        Windstorm has stated she has never experienced this supernova and never will.
        I believe I have on more then one occasion and has been triggered when my emotions have hit an extreme and I am done with the BS.
        I am a Contangon Empath and not a Super Empath. Even thou I feel everything, cross one of my boundaries and it is on, other then that I just float along with things with a side of co dependency (I am addicted to HGs kind relieveing me of excessive energy) I will only hold on for a moment once I let go….have you heard of the term “door slam” it is that I am done and washed my hands of things. I do not hate you but neither do I like you. Once in a while one does annoy me and I slap it like I do annoying gnats and progress with my day.

        We are both Contangon yet I believe experiences have developed us slightly different in how we deal with things. I also suspect I am more intuned then she is, yet again I had a mentor when I was young and raised by a Greater elite.

        IMO the way HG has place empaths in schools is based more on their level of empathy and the emotional contingency.
        There would be more standards then next co dependents, then Super Empaths and last the Contangon.

      4. Twilight
        Like you and WS I can relate to Contagion, too. I am focusing on empathy/empaths and I was wondering, what do you think your cadre is?

      5. Hello K

        I resonate with carrier, magnet, geyser, with a splash of savior.
        The only thing I do know is I am a Contagion.
        I am still working how I categorize people to match HGs with both sides of the spectrum

      6. Twilight
        Noted: Contagion, if you narrow down the Cadre at all, please let me know.

        A little bit Carrier in my life, a little bit of Saviour by my side
        A little bit of Geyser is all I need, a little bit of Magnet is what I see

      7. Ha, ha! Like your lyrics! Mamba #5 was a favorite with my daughter when she was young.

      8. WS
        That is a great song and when I read Twilight’s comment, I immediately thought of Mumbo # 5. She is a little bit of every cadre; an ocean of emotion.

      9. LOL!! 😀😀😀 that’s brilliant K. So funny! It made me burst out laughing. I love the funny comments on this blog 😀

        Since you’re asking, I think I’m mostly a Super Empath, because I have to work on feelings of anger in order to think rationally. I’ve always had a streak of defiance even as a child. I can also take quite a lot of emotional abuse and carry on regardless holding on to the belief that I’ll continue to be “proud” of my empathic traits and will not dim them, even when, by doing so, things can become more problematic.

        I also sense the negative emotions of others clearly and deeply, so in that respect I think there’s an element of Contagion there too but the Super Empath traits override that and make me more self-conscious. It’s funny though, because I sense negative emotions of others far more than positive emotions.

        When I sense the negative emotions of others, I feel an almost uncontrollable impulse to “fix” the situation or to help the person feel better, even though they may not even want or ask for help. So I’d say that was the Carrier cadre.

        I enjoy being independent, and feel suffocated and restricted with too much input from other people, so I don’t think I’m co-dependent.

        Depending on the situation, it may be different though, so it’s not really clear cut. Sometimes I feel my emotions and moods can be very changeable. In some situations, my emotions can become easily moved and then there’s a tendency towards the Geyser cadre too.

        So, in a nutshell, I think the school is Super Empath, with a touch of Contagion, while the cadre is mainly Carrier with a side of Geyser. It’s a mixed bag.

        Thank you for asking though. It’s helpful to think about this in greater detail and to try and pinpoint exactly what our tendencies are. It’s very interesting to me to read other people’s observations about themselves as well.

      10. Thank you, WiserNow!
        We have to have fun sometimes because life is too damn short. This place is a riot and I have had many LOL moments here, as well.

        – Anger, defiance and pride are all narcissistic traits.
        – Sensing emotions (contagion), the need to fix, the ability to take quite a lot of emotional abuse (tenacity), those are empath traits.
        – to help the person feel better, even though they may not even want or ask for help (this is the narcissistic trait of selfishness coming to the fore momentarily)*
        – independent, and feel suffocated and restricted with too much input from other people (not a CoD).

        Like you, I sense negative emotions more often than positive. Hate is an easy one to pick up on, also, coldness (anti-social/frosty).

        I have you down as a Super Empath, with a touch of Contagion, while the cadre is mainly Carrier with a side of Geyser.

        I agree; it is both interesting and helpful to read about people’s observations about themselves and it furthers our understanding of the dynamic. The empath is one half of the dynamic, after all.

        *Scroll down to the The Super Empath on the link below to read that sentence.
        https://narcsite.com/2017/08/13/the-saviour-empath/

      11. Hi K,

        Thank you for your reply. You have a lovely open-minded and humorous way of responding to everyone. I always smile when I’m reading your comments.

        We sure do have to have fun in this life. Especially since we are being hunted down on a daily basis by ruthless narcissists who want to sink their teeth into us 🙄😉

        Reading your summary of my so-called empathic traits, I sound like an angry, bitter, proud narcy bitch lol!! 😀 Honestly though, I’m really not that bad. I’m only angry a fraction of the time, honestly. I think the narc-like traits are a self-protective exterior that’s developed over the years as a response to quite a few narcs I’ve been surrounded by personally and at work. I don’t feel that is my true nature deep down and I think things would probably have turned out differently if I’d been surrounded by empathic people instead. But, that’s just speculation. Who knows. I need to find a way to be serene more often lol 😀

        Thank you for the link to the Saviour Empath article. Maybe that’s what I was actually referring to when I said Carrier Empath. I think it may be a bit of both.

        I see that you relate to the Contagion Empath. From reading your comments as well as Windstorm’s and Twilight’s, who also describe themselves as Contagion Empaths, I can see that you all have a consistently calm, reflective and even-tempered tone or energy in your comments.

        It’s easy to see the differences between commenters who relate to Contagion and those who relate to Super or Standard simply by the tone of their comments. It’s quite interesting. Thank you for asking the question and starting this thread. It brings up yet another dimension of this whole subject.

      12. Twilight
        SE seemed to fit me very well, but then I read The Three strands of Empathy and emotional contagion fit me to a T. Whenever I watch the news, read or look at art, I automatically feel emotions without even thinking. And, I can feel my IRL empath’s emotions and she can feel mine, as well. We understand and communicate with each other without even speaking sometimes. Emotional contagion is fascinating when you think about it.

    2. WS
      Ok, so you think your School may be Contagion. What is your cadre? I don’t remember.

      I know NarcAngel is a Super Empath and her cadre is Saviour.
      My School is SE (I think), Cadre: Carrier, however, I can relate to the Contagion, as well.

      1. K
        There is no doubt that I am contagion. My cadre Is Magnet. Hope springs eternal!

      2. K: Carriers are the cadre that help, don’t expect anything in return and never complain, right? I relate to that with the caveat that disloyalty makes me disengage. I will need Mr. Tudor’s help to clarify.

      3. Catherine Parr R
        Yup, that sums up the Carrier very succinctly and I am confident that that is my cadre, as well. Disloyalty is a serious violation of trust and it is understandable why you would disengage. That is probably a protective instinct. For clarity regarding your school and cadre, I would definitely consult with HG.

      4. Yes I will. Mr. Tudor’s website confirmed that there is a difference between my style of communication compared to other females in general. There is a gap about something which is fascinating and frustrating at the same time. Does it make sense?

      5. Catherine Parr R
        Sometimes, I feel frustrated when I communicate with others too. People that I perceive as apaths/normals do not always understand me; it is as if there is a barrier between us and things get lost in translation. Narcs mirror, so I have to watch out for them. Empaths are the best for me because they understand so easily, without even having to explain, they just get me. It saves so much energy.

Leave a Reply

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.