The Wrong No Contact
No Contact.
This is what anybody who has been a victim of our kind must achieve. Whether that status of victim stems from being a friend to a narcissist where you are taken for granted, used when the narcissist needs a lift or someone to moan to or whether it is the beaten down and trampled Intimate Partner Primary Source who was wife, boyfriend or partner has endured and suffered extensive abuse, no contact is the antidote.
Building that robust and effective wall of no contact can be difficult. It is time consuming, requires rigour and perseverance and not only are you trying to repel the advances of the narcissist who is trying to breach your no contact regime, you also have to fight against yourself and your emotional thinking which is trying to make you breach no contact as well. Indeed, it is often your emotional thinking which proves to be the harder enemy to conquer and it is not a one-off battle. Your emotional thinking, because of who you are and the emotional infection your engagement with the narcissist has caused, means that this is an ongoing battle which requires your repeated vigilance. Through the application of understanding and building your Logic Defences, the task does become easier, but it is not one which goes away. Like any wall, it must be checked, maintained and patrolled, otherwise holes and breaches occur and the narcissist will impact on you once again.
Time and time again I see people who think they have put in place no contact and they have not. Sometimes it almost beggars belief that the victim thinks they have established no contact – it is obvious they have not. In other instances you could be forgiven (if forgiveness was something I gave) for thinking you have implemented no contact but in actual fact you have not. There are many instances where people think they have instigated no contact and all they have done is embark on The Wrong No Contact. Here are just a few of the many ways in which you might be getting no contact wrong and the risks that come with this.
- Looking At Social Media
Just because the narcissist does not explicitly know you have looked at his or her social media does not mean this is no contact. Indeed, we rely on you doing so and expect you to look at our social media, that is why in certain instances you are not blocked from looking at our Facebook account, Twitter feed, Instagram and so forth. We want you to look at it. Just because you are not interacting directly with us, just because you are not commenting and we are not replying, just because you are not adding likes – this is not no contact. If you are looking at our social media you are likely to see indirect jibes made about you, Relationship Bulletins about your replacement, reminders of the golden period and even direct attacks against you. This will result in :-
- a risk you will be upset, hurt, angry
- the maintenance of the emotional infection because you are thinking about us
- a surge of emotional thinking which may cause you to contact us to attack us for our barbed comments towards you, to seek answers when you are upset about the reminder of an anniversary or similar
- stopping you from moving forward
2. Not Blocking Our Number
You may think that it will be the first thing you will do when you commence no contact. You block our number from your telephone and mobile phone so that we cannot call or text you from the relevant number. Of course we may get around this by using a different device therefore that is why you are better served by changing your telephone numbers, but if you do not change the numbers then you ought to block the new number of ours which appears and keep doing so, like a matador dodging the on rushing bull each time to avoid harm.
Nevertheless, the number of occasions I see people who claim they are no contact but they have not blocked our number is higher than you might think. These people think that if they, as victim, do not contact us, then that is no contact. No, it is not. Of course, those people who do not block the number are giving in to their emotional thinking because they WANT the narcissist to contact them.
If you do not block our number, this is not no contact. One of the easiest hoovers for us to perform is to text you. It uses no effort, it brings with it a reduced consequence of wounding (say compared to ringing you on the telephone or seeing you in person) and allows the drawing of fuel. If you do not block our number, you are lowering the hoover bar to such a low level that hoovers are more or less inevitable.
The emotional thinking of victims tells them things such as :-
- It is over, there was a ‘final discard’ he will never contact me anyway;
- If she does text me, I won’t reply and that will wound her, so actually I am ‘winning’;
- There might be an emergency and therefore I cannot block him
Utter rubbish.
There is no such thing as a final discard. We will contact you, subject to the Hoover Trigger being activated and the Hoover Execution Criteria being met. If you do not block us, this is going to happen. You will be hoovered.
If you allow a text through, you are maintaining the emotional infection and you will suffer a surge in emotional thinking which may very well result in you responding and before you know it, you are not only providing fuel but you are being drawn back into the Formal Relationship. Months later you will ask ‘how the hell did that happen?’ Every text which arrives adds more and more to your emotional thinking until such time that you can no longer resist. Oh, I hear your protestations that you can resist but i have witnessed such resolve melt away. If you are playing Russian roulette and pull the trigger once and do not blow your brains out, you have survived. Pick the gun up again and again and again and eventually you will kill yourself. This is the similar effect of repeatedly engaging with us by allowing those texts through – you WILL succumb.
So what if there is an emergency? I know you are kind, decent and honest but we are no longer your concern in that respect. You need to remind yourself that you have no obligation towards us (of course our perspective will make us tell you differently) and therefore that False Suicide Power Play Hoover is not something you have to deal with. If you co-parent establish a mechanism whereby the narcissist e-mails routine communication to you. You tell the narcissist in advance that you will check the e-mails once a week at a set time and never deviate from this. This way you cater for communication regarding the children but only expose yourself once a week to potential hoovers. When the narcissist realises this is being done, see how the hoover attempts diminish. If you need a mechanism for emergency communication, tell the narcissist to contact a third party who will then contact you. Use this gate keeper.
3. Keeping our telephone number
You may say that you will not use it and therefore think that this is no contact, but once again, this is not no contact. With our number sat in your phone, even if you have changed the description to ‘Arsehole Number One’ , ‘Shit 4 Brains’ or ‘Narcopath’ you are creating problems :-
- You see the name and number and you are then reminding yourself of us and thus this is a form of Ever Presence ;
- You are leaving open a gateway. There will be an occasion when your emotional thinking surges and causes you to try to contact us. If our number if there you will use it and message us or ring us. If there is no number, you cannot call us.
Do not come up with the nonsense of ‘I have memorised the number so I will remember it anyway so what difference does it make if I keep the number in my phone?’ Bollocks. Your memory is fallible and over time if you have not used our number, you will eventually forget it altogether or at least get some numbers mixed up. If it is still in your directory, you will ring it.
Delete that number. Do it and do it immediately.
4. Talking to friends and family about us
You may think that because you are not engaging with us directly then this must mean no contact is in place. It is not in place if you continue to talk about us to your friends and your family. This is causing you to engage with us, albeit indirectly. All this does is result in :-
- You continuing to think about us with the consequential impact on your emotions;
- The continued feeding of the emotional infection which you should be purging, not feeding ;
- Allowing your emotional thinking to surge with the risk this may control you once again and you end up contacting us or succumbing to a direct hoover with all that follows from that
It is of course inevitable that you will discuss the situation with your family and friends especially when you do not understand what you are dealing with. However, once you realise you are dealing with a narcissist then there does not need to be any more discussion. If you are not sure whether the person is, do not discuss it with your family and friends, they invariably have no idea whether the person is or not, they have no expertise. Indeed, they may well be revelling in joining in the ‘narc hating’ sessions which are actually not helping you at all. Alternatively, they may well be sick of hearing you going on about him or her and want you to shut up, but tolerate it out of a sense of loyalty. If you are unsure, ask me and I will give it to you straight, one way or the other.
Once you know, you go.
No more debating it with your best friend. No more mulling it over with your football mates after the game in the pub. No more ‘ifs and buts’ discussions with your parents. This person is a narcissist and you are not to dedicate any time to discussing this person. If you have to discuss an arrangement concerning the narcissist because they are collecting the children from your parents, then that is allowable but keep it to that. You do not need to tell people what the narcissist did or said. All you are doing is repeating this person is a narcissist, you already know this, they already know this, so why keep going on about it?
You do it because your emotional thinking wants you to do so. It wants you poring over the latest misbehaviour because it craves the horrified gasps from your friends or looks of disapproval from your mother. You do not need these responses.
Do not talk about us. Explain to your friends you do not want the narcissist spoken about to you. If they try to do so, politely explain again that this person means nothing to you anymore and therefore there is no need to talk about them.
5. Watching what we are doing
You may make the intelligence agencies proud of your covert observation of us as you watch where we go, who we are with and what we are doing. You do not need to do this. Again, once you know what we are, get out and stay out. Yes, I understand it is so tempting to know what we are up to, are we seeing someone else, what does he or she look like, why are we going to these places but all you are doing is succumbing to your emotional thinking which is conning you into maintaining a link with us.
Your emotional thinking will tell you that it is permissible to engage in this behaviour because you are not contacting us directly, you are merely observing. These are examples of your emotional thinking conning you into thinking this stalking and observation is a good idea
- You are gathering evidence to tell other people what we are doing to confirm what you have told them previously (you do not need to – you know what we are, that is all you need, you do not have to persuade other people)
- You are gathering evidence for a court case (you do not have to do it – hire somebody to do this or if you cannot afford to do that, have a friend or family member do it – also question whether you really need to this evidence)
- You want to know who the narcissist is seeing so you can warn this person about us (part of your decent nature but unnecessary – you owe the new person no such obligation to warn then and in any event it is unlikely you will be believed because of the smearing we will have done against you)
- You just need to know for your own piece of mind (utter nonsense, you do not need to know at all)
Recognise these sleights of mind by your emotional thinking and act on them.
If you keep watching us, all you are doing is
- Creating harmful emotions that impact on you
- Keeping the emotional infection alive and growing
- Causing your emotional thinking to surge so you contact us directly
- Being spotted by us and suffering a hoover (benign or malign)
- Being spotted by us and being on the end of a restraining order or similar for harassment etc
These are just five examples of The Wrong No Contact. There are many more. Be alert for them, recognise them and understand why you are not implementing no contact. Stop letting your emotional thinking con you.
Once you know, you go.
Get out, stay out.
46 thoughts on “The Wrong No Contact”
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The first time I attempted no contact, two months went by and I foolishly unblocked him from my phone. I was actually healing, it seemed, and convinced myself I’d resist any attempt of him manipulating me should he make contact. I also believed that he WOULD NOT contact me. But really?? Why did I unblock him. I must have thought there was a possibility.
Sure enough, writhin a week of unblocking him, I received a text asking him to call me. I called him back the next day.
What followed was an abusive hell of confusion and insanity.
From what I’ve learned from H G – he will never Stop punishing me for daring to walk out in him and for dozens of other disordered reasons.
I’ve gone no contact again. And have hopefully learned from my mistakes.
Is this still the case if the narissistic injury involved him being arrested for assault? I have blocked him on everything so surely he would just choose to hoover someone else for fuel who hasn’t put NC in place wouldn’t he? if he knows it would be an easier source. I haven’t been hoovered in the 3 months since I discarded him despite being in his social sphere on occasion. I ‘m hoping he thinks of me as too much of an effort…is there such a thing?
There are a variety of factors in the Hoover Execution Criteria which mean that when there is a Hoover Trigger, the narcissist instinctively does not perform a hoover and thus in effect, it is too much of an effort for the potential reward and thus there is no hoover. Of course, these factors are fluid in nature.
my situation is that i am emotionally free from his manipulations , he cant undesrtand what is going on because he is no longer in control ,he has tried all his tactics and nothing is been working i am grey rocking him been boring leasy when at home but i dont see him really leaving,nor triying to get a divorce or a new host …i guess he knows he is so deteriorated and has nothing to offer as a man in life and society and his dissability condition doesnt help that hes playing dumb so i am the one to make the first move towards divorce so he can make hell for me is i do so ☹ can you see your self here hg?
No.
HG, need some advise please. I am SIPSS. My MMRN has been away doing military things and I have flown the coop….. blocked on my phone and social media. My problem is we are neighbors that sometimes take the same trains. I can change up my train schedule…which I have done already but can not change my work information or where I work which is right across the street from him.
Suggestions? I guess I just keep walking, hang up the phone and ignore emails?
thank you
Impose a rigid no contact regime as far as possible and on the occasions where you see him ensure you stay away from him to counter the impact of emotional thinking.
Thanks HG.
Now if the ever presence would go away I would be golden
106 days no contact today. Still connected by one friend who wants to see the “disagreement” settled. I’ve told the friend that Narc is not to know anything about what I’m doing. Friend keeps feeding info back when narc is conveniently concerned about my well being. Sad to see a 25 year friendship end, but I’m strong on this. If I have to walk I’m prepared for that.
JCS
Good for you on the no contact and your decision about the ‘friendship’ if need be. A friend would not look to his needs over yours.
Thank you H.G.
I will add that if the narc has disengaged or put you on the shelf and you are sending texts or have been trying to contact them and it’s been 6 months since they have responded. You shouldn’t count that as 6 months of no contact.
No contact begins when you make a conscious decision that you no longer want any involvement with that person and you take the necessary measures as H.G. has listed GOSO.
Know your Day 1….This doesn’t negate progress in other areas. Urge surf…ride the waves…you will get to the other side.
Many of us did not know what a narc. is or how the operate. Sometimes when we find out, and know they are doing this to many….We need to heal and also research and warn others. NO contact for me was a choice not to do at first. There is a second time now that He may have a law suit against him…It is so sick how they do this over and over…
Melinda He was coming after me the first time with a retaining order, as he was outed on cheating sites. I only had him outed on craiglist…NO 411 of his name or life, just distributions and photo…3 months 22 women wrote me. I talk to one on the phone. Anyways, I signed an out of court stipulation. They others outed him and a old victim who thought like I was just with just him. So then him and his GF came after me. BUT I had so much evidence of him lying and he had many women who he victimized and HIS own GF outed him on our FB messages of him abusing women, he was a narc. so on. So WE all signed a mutual stay away agreement. So WE never went in front of the judge.Keep all your evidence. LOOK up the judge who has your case. Our Judge was having a smear done to her of the internet. SO that freaked me out. I could of requested a change of judge. Go to court, Always go see a lawyer. Never be alone. There are low income lawyers. I also, got e-mail death threats with I am going to kill you and bloody photos. It was either the Narc.or the GF. My narc. is a man with means of money time and power.BUT I think Karma got him, as he had to step down from his title or he got fired. AS there was a sex scandal at his work. Always see a lawyer….
Thanks Spiritual Warrior.
Thank you for consistently drumming in the “no contact” rules HG.
I like this article for the unwavering reminders you give and the unstinting approach. Emotional thinking is a damn nuisance at times. It can wreak havoc on boundaries.
You are welcome.
I just learned a new term–spoofing. My ex whom I have a RO against, has been spoofing me. I am guessing he is to going to “show me” he disregards the laws regarding the RO and he wants me to know he won’t leave me alone???
My friends, are you familiar with restraining orders, have stories of violations and have you experienced spoofing? Any way to catch the third party–in this case my ex,?
And do you think my hypothesis regarding his motives are correct?
You do realise you are talking to mainly WOMEN in this blog HG?… who all are emotionally creatures. Some of us more so than others. It is almost impossible for me to be logical. I am not made that way! I am even more emotional than many being borderline. Though this is very good information. If people can do it then go for it. And I envy those that can be so logical and Vulcan-like. But I’m sure I’m not alone in saying: “nope ain’t gonna happen!”
I may put certain safety measures in place, and block etc but I’m not going to change the fabric of who I am just because of a Narc. They don’t get to choose what and how I do things, nor my behaviour.
That’s a gross oversimplification. People are emotional creatures, but men and women are conditioned by society to react to, express and work through their emotions differently.
Also, it’s quite possible to be both emotional and logical. They are not polar opposites, just parallel facilties that people possess to varying degrees. Handling your emotions requires interest, patience and quite a bit of self-discipline. It is a skill that can be learned by anybody (except disabled or severly mentally ill people). Not all people are into that, which is fine – you do you.
I’ve heard my narc mother say “I can’t help myself” so many times… As if it’s perfectly fine to refuse responsibility for handling your own emotions and to blame others for making you feel/react a certain way.
faculties, not facilties… sorry for the typo
Wow, having a Narc mother…. that’s gotta be really rough. I can imagine that doing some real damage to your psyche….
I wish you well in your recovery…
May I ask a different sort of question. We’ve all been abused, how do we best engage a narcissists in business? I have a small service type business, I have drawn narcissistic customers. How is the best way to engage with them and still remain safe? Providing good service but keeping my distance?
There is much that can be done in this regard IdaNoe as it is an expansive topic and one I can certainly assist you with through a consultation.
Idanoe, i ran a small, highly empathic, service business all through my 20s. I was known in my industry to have very demanding and narcissistic clients. I dont know what exactly you do for a living, but in my experience, my narcissistic clients were atleast my most consistant, and lucrative clients. I did not suffer very much abuse from narcissistic clients, considering i was lower in their fuel matrix. What i had to learn fairly quickly was boundaries because of their entitlement, entitlement to services outside of business hours, entitlement to personal information about me, etc. Be consistant with boundaries. Things you can do to help yourself is turn everything back to them. They dont really care about who you are voting for, they want you to let them to go off on their point of views. Its ok to pretend they are genious, its ok to pretend they are generous, its ok to let your empath energy to flow. If they drain you, you shut the flow off and refer them out
Thank you. I’m still learning and digesting all this. Unfortunately this is all I’ve ever know, so I expect people to behave badly. The entitlement is common and usually dealable, but it’s the boundaries I have difficulty with. Being raised by narcissists, I was taught to be transparent ie, if you’re not transparent then you must be up to something shady or corrupt . That has been a problem. I let them in too far and they shred me. I’m going through Sirs books and if I can’t find the answers I need, he suggested a consult, so that’s what I’ll do. Thank you very much for your input. It helps put the pieces together so I can fill the holes !
Idanoe, it also helps to hire an office manager or assistant to play good cop and bad cop, you being the good cop. You can be the talent and nice person, the assistant can inforce rules, schedule, and take payments. Good luck with your business endeavors. Hg consultations are totally worth it
It’s sick, we’re sick, the world seems sick.
Thank you
Haha. StrongerWendy has competition for brevity.
Ha ha! 🙂
This is a great article! Packed with lotsa goodies. One of my favorites. How shall my emotional thinking con me? Let me count the ways!
HG, 1) if “friends” we tell do not have the expertise to identify someone as personality disordered, 2) if therapists or counselors are reluctant to acknowledge the narcissistic individual/dynamic, 3) if we have been smeared by a delusional adult who believes their feelings are facts, 4) if we have an eroded sense of self-worth 5) if we are ruminating over the validity of our experience, then how are are we going to survive without the support of self, family, and friends. My emotional thinking is the most pitiful attribute I possess. I am ashamed to be so weak. I am hard pressed to find any purpose for being here. I know you say first and foremost “it is not your fault”. It is my fault for tolerating and engaging in relationships with people who have such a low opinion of me. It is my fault for treating myself like trash. I am no better than the narc.
No contact is soooooo hard! Why? Even though I know that I’m being treated horrible (at times) (majority of the time) it is very, very hard to maintain no contact. It’s been 8 months since we’ve first met and I’ve attempted no contact at least 4-5 times…but he always finds a way, either through stalking (which scares the shit out of me but I’ve gotten use to) or harassing me and my kids til I just give in. Sometimes I think that GOD must want us to be together if he keeps “finding” me. Now, because of previous attempts/outcomes I’m extremely hesitant to implement another no contact regime because now he has started using it against me, as somewhat of a punishment. For instance, I blocked him on Messenger for MAYBE an hour but got cold feet and unblocked him only to find he had blocked me….so I tried to be a good girl and be patient and wait like I know he wants me to but GOD it just killed me inside…not knowing if this was it, so needless to say I don’t block him anymore. I really really need to seriously implement no contact but it is very, very, very hard to do! Good Luck Ladies…..and Gents!
X
GOD does NOT want you to be together and he keeps “finding” you because you are letting your emotional thinking take over. Please, read:
https://narcsite.com/2018/05/30/the-golden-rules-of-freedom-no-1-2/
He is abusive and you need to protect yourself AND your children from him. You are an adult, not a girl, take control of the situation and implement NC. It is very difficult but no more excuses. Do it for the children; they deserve better.
Amen…if not for self at least think of your children.
Since I truly understood no contact, from early March, I can tick all 5- boom!
Number three cracks me up every time I read this article, especially so listening to the video. More so because I so did it! It made me laugh at myself.
I had renamed him as the “Grinch” on my phone… the song lyrics painted the picture of a victim narcissist to me, and at that time I was hurting, so I thought it was quite apt!
“Your a mean one mr grinch
You really are a heel
You’re cuddly as a cactus
You’re as charming as an eel
Mr grinch
You’re a bad banana with a greasy black peel
you’re a monster mr grinch
Your hearts an empty hole
Your brain is full of spiders
You’ve got garlic in your soul mr grinch
I wouldn’t touch you with a 39 foot pole.”
I was originally all defiant about my version of no contact post disengagement. I had not blocked him on Facebook ( we were just unfriended as it were) as I reasoned to myself that I didn’t want him to see that I had been affected by him at all, to want to do this. I didn’t want to show a reaction! I had not deleted and blocked his number on my phone or his email contact, because I thought he was unlikely to contact me, and if he was identifiable I would not respond.
I was made to understand the pretty foolish error in this approach, and I have to say, having him blocked on FB especially has been amazing – we are invisible to each other, and if he has worked out he is blocked by me he knows I’m not looking at his page – so no thought fuel ..
No contact is liberating…
So so difficult when The Narc is the only member of family left and I now have so few friends to count on because of the total isolation. For years I’ve stuck through thick and thin to make things work, so proud of having what little family (of his) I had, but now I must plan ahead for No Contact. I know this is the only way forward, as what life do I have now anyway: I’m “downtrodden, undermined, despised” (in quotes as I hope I don’t stay that way on escaping). But I so dread being totally alone, with not one member of family, no one to ever turn to, chat to, no one to share memories with, no one actually knowing me. The way forward frightens the hell out of me. I can feel my courage crumbling.
Hi Sarah,
You can rebuild, one brick at a time.
Movement is movement, no matter how slow it can feel, it’s still a movement and hopefully in a direction away from toxicity, and towards yourself. I can not begin to contemplate how you are feeling, I just wanted to say I have heard you.
Try to focus on the one day, not the whole future, break it down.. but most importantly be kind to yourself. X
Hello Sarah
You can do it, it will feel very dark and hopeless. It isn’t.
I was alone, people saw me as the narcissist, the abuser, he took everything from me. The family I had here turned their back on me, what few friends he convince I was on drugs and a thief or would sleep with their husbands, he told them he feared for his children’s lives because I would kidnap them. I was a witness in a court case at the time and he convinced the manager where i worked I was the one on trial, so I was painted black due to the nature of the case. Word got back to me doctors looked at me in a different view even thou my my history said different. I could go on, he took everything from me. Through it all I stood on truth and rebuilt my Life one stone at a time.
You can do it, believe in yourself and you can come here and find many who understand and can support you. HG can give you the knowledge to understand his perspective and ways to deal with those like him effectively.
Most importantly keep moving forward, you will see the light and breath dread hair under the light of the sun.
Not dread hair but fresh air….breath fresh air under the light of the sun.
My autocorrect is against me today.
I want dread hair! A dread mowhawk 😁 seriously
Lol 😀 Very funny IdaNoe! That gave me a chuckle.
And speaking of dread mohawks, I bought a new CD last night by The Weeknd – so there you go! What a coincidence!! 😀😀
Sarah B.
You won’t be despised or alone here. Keep posting your thoughts and feelings. It is frightening but, as time goes by, you will realize that you are better off without him and his family.
Sarah B
When you are no longer with him you will not be isolated from others and free to enjoy activities you dropped to cater to him. You will meet other people and cultivate friendships because they are not subject to his approval. No one has to be alone unless they want to be.
The only thing I do to protect myself is google his name to see if any sites are outing him or he died. I was in Court twice because of him. And spent $3,000. So I need to watch my back as Since I stood up to him. He is aways after me if anything of him being outed by the many other women victims. What I did, didn’t go to Google. The shits of having a narcissist who has status money and power
Spiritual Warrior, I have become a follower of yours. I filed a restraining order, he is contesting it. Should I just not go to court Monday? From your experience, looking back, 20/20 vision, would you have just gone Never Contact
I posted a reply below…I hope HG will allow it…The best to you…SEE a lawyer and show up to court….with LOTS of evidence that is organized and dated…The best to you