Attachment Is The Seat Of Misery
This is a capricious, arbitrary and hostile world. It must be brought to heel, tamed and subjected to the exertion of control. My control.
This is why I must cause every appliance that I come across to become attached to me. From my next door neighbour who I say hello to and exchange banal pleasantries with for the sake of my façade (even though I would readily drive a rusty meat hook through his malformed cranium if he tells me again about the refurbishment details of his latest property acquisition) through to my friends who join me for drinks on a Friday evening through to the latest girlfriend that I parade, all of them must be attached to me.
The creation of my construct is the device which causes these individuals to become attached to me. That magnificent edifice which is created from the mirrors which I show towards those whose paths I cross. Make the ticket inspector smile on the train by supporting him dealing with a obstreperous teenage passenger, encourage a friend in his plans to lose weight, show that prospective IPPS her own hopes and desires so she begins to fall in love. All of that is the work of the construct which is designed to draw each and every source – from the tertiary through to the ever-so-crucial Intimate Partner Primary Source – to me and cause them to attach to me.
Whether the barista thinks I am a pleasant and loyal customer, a junior colleague considers me an inspirational boss, the lady I pass every other day whilst out running gives me a smile of acknowledgement and admiration, whether a friend considers me someone he can turn to for advice, whether she falls hopelessly in love with me; there are thousands of different ways for these appliances to attach to me.
It might be a jealous co-worker who seethes at my arrogance, the nervous supplier who dreads my call demanding what is behind his company’s latest cock-up, the weeping cast off who was once the apple of my eye but is now a maggot-infested windfall, all of them remain attached to me.
It is through causing these appliances to be attached to me that I can exert control as I assimilate them into my world. They are mine to control, to utilise, to extract from and through this I can then control my environment. By controlling my environment I aim to minimise the traitorous ambush or the treacherous mutiny. Keeping everything in its place, subject to my control and functioning as I require it, means I drive forward and order is maintained.
Attachment is the key to achieving this. I have to draw you in, hook you, grip you, I have to bond you to me, bind you so you do not escape me, clamp you in place, tie you down and secure the attachment. I will give you the illusion of the golden period, I will lie to you, I will give you generosity, I will show you largesse, I will even exhibit some form of manufactured intimacy, kindness and support, the promise of fuel and the years of practised scrutiny enabling me to give you what you want so I secure your attachment.
Yet for all these fuel pipelines that are connected to me, for all of the bridges that have been built, the links which have been carefully constructed, they are all one-way. It is you being attached to me. I feel no attachment to you.
That is why I am so able to turn on the person that I supposedly love and watch as the tears trickle down the disbelieving face as I lambast her for wearing the wrong shade of red or turning up two minutes late. That is why I can lie between the silken thighs of another and promise her the world whilst you lie awake wondering where I am and praying that I have not been involved in a road accident. That is why I can assure you that you will be promoted by year end and in the next meeting offer it to somebody else instead. That is why I can decide not to turn up to the dinner party you have spent a month planning and go and watch a film elsewhere. That is why I can smash your grandmother’s watch with a ballpein hammer as you observe, in a fit of hysterics.
My lack of attachment allows me to disappoint, renege, cheat, lie, provoke, hurt, torture and abuse. It gives me fluidity, mobility and efficiency. I am not hampered by guilt, nor remorse or a sense of obligation. I form no attachment with you. I do not feel it.
You may ask me what I might think of those who I interact with and I can conjure up the tributes and platitudes in an instant:-
“John? Excellent worker, never lets the company down, a key member of the team.”
“She is a wonderful woman, I do not know what I would do without her. She is my world.”
“He is amazing. First name on the team sheet every week.”
“NarcSide Inc? Fucking brilliant. Use them. I did once. Never gone anywhere else.”
But for all of this I feel nothing by way of attachment. I bolt you on to me, but I will not attach to you. What does attachment bring? Nothing but misery. Look around and you will see the woe and pain that being attached brings for people.
You become attached to a pet dog which will die in 10 years’ time and you cry for the loss of your furry friend. Why? Why attach to something that is only going to leave you?
You are attached to your employer and show loyalty? What for? So they can bend you over and shaft you by making you redundant and show you the door without even a tub of lube to ease the pain of the experience?
You are attached to your house, but you have to sell it, or it burns down, or it is flooded, or someone breaks in and yet more pain is dumped on you.
You are attached to your friend and share everything with that person and then one day he is mowed down by an articulated lorry and is left nothing but a smear on the road. You are distraught, besides yourself with grief because of your attachment.
You attach yourself to a lover, a girlfriend, a husband, a partner only for them to cheat on you, to leave you for someone else, to shuffle off this mortal coil pumped full of morphine or grasping their chest as a heart attack takes them from you. Your world comes crashing in, you are shattered, besides yourself with grief and it is all because of your attachment.
You attach yourself to offspring only for them to disappoint you, leech from you, turn to an unsavoury lifestyle which embarrasses you and dismays you because you are attached to them. Or you are always worrying how they are getting on at school, will they secure that job, pass their driving test, find a good man or woman? Your feelings are put through the mill owing to this attachment.
Oh I know you will tell me that you gain so much from these attachments, love, happiness, support, understanding, companionship, joy, loyalty, a sense of achievement and more besides. I have heard it before, but I see over and over again the misery that always arises from these attachments. It is not worth it.
It is far better to never become attached in the first place. I cannot trust. How can I when I was given a salutary and compelling lesson that if you try to attach all you receive in return is rejection and misery. Better not to bother. Build the wall, dig the moat, put up the barriers, do not allow anybody in and in so doing you prevent these weakening attachments from occurring and you save yourself the inevitable, and it is always inevitable, misery that is waiting around the corner.
Yet for me, I do not even have to contemplate creating that tower or ensuring that the ditch is dug deep. I do not have to roll out the figurative barbed wire and electric fences to keep people out. This is all done for me because I do not know how to connect with someone. I have no idea how it is done.
I can attach them to me. That is easy. I have been doing it for as long as I can remember. A combination of brilliance, charm, magnetism, manipulation and the identification of those from the strong to the weak and back again who are the best for succumbing to being attached to me. I can bring that about through all of the various seduction techniques I have described before.
Yet for all of that power of attraction, which few can resist, from tertiary to secondary to primary source, I do not know how to form an emotional attachment with someone. I may align interests and outcomes and sense a mutuality of purpose but I feel nothing for these appliances. There is no bond. There is nothing attaching me to them. The emptiness within me, the void which I seek to fill with fuel from all those in my fuel matrix pervades my relationship with those in that matrix. I am hollow and that echoes in my relationships with all those around me.
Whatever it is that compels you to feel connected to somebody else, whatever you describe it as and I have heard people do so on many occasions, I remain unable to sense and experience it myself.
There is just nothing there.
Does this trouble me? No. I see the misery that comes with attachment and I see my inability to connect to anybody as an advantage so I am spared what happens to so many others.
The Creature had all of that and it can keep it.
I rose from the seat of misery and I found a new throne.
101 thoughts on “Attachment Is The Seat Of Misery”
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HG, do you think you have lost permanently your capacity to bond/attach to someone?
I never had it to begin with.
Foolme1time
Sorry, I missed this comment until now and it made me laugh. I am sending some adorned with black angel wings directly. Enjoy.
Naughty, naughty FM1T…you little vixen…
😉
HG, just wanted to say that I do not judge you for not bonding to anyone or anything. I understand the logic behind it and I know it is necessary for you in order to do what you do to survive.
I know there are no absolutes in this life.
Quite alright.
Lou, ….it depends whether you are a young child or not when you lose that attachment. I was 5…when mother left, and then 11 when mother died. When you are young, you are not necessarily equipped to deal with things such as this. Yes you adapt, because you have no choice. But what happens is, there is a wound there. It goes deep. You do not learn as a child necessarily from then on healthy type relationships, because you do not know how to heal and grow from such a loss. And if your other parent is abusive too, (which mine was) nobody exactly teaches you how to do this. Nor do you learn such things at school.
I do understand what you mean, and can see from an adult’s perspective, they would be able to perhaps learn and grow from the experience and pain.
But as a child, your relationships often can then suffer, and you learn survival techniques. That’s what you learn to do. Survive! That’s all a child knows instinctively how to do. That’s it!
You do not like the pain that has been caused by loss and attachment. You block it out or you pretend maybe it didn’t happen to protect yourself. You become wary or even frightened of further attachments in life, as you do not want to feel this pain again. You push people away. You have not as yet learnt the necessary skills to be able to deal with loss, and also how to deal with that vulnerability or hole within you. You can have intimacy issues with people. You may find that you do not know how to give or receive love or it feels cold. You can feel very empty inside. That wound stays with you until adulthood. I speak from experience.
If your first care-givers were not there emotionally or physically or both, then all of these consequences can happen from that.
Narcs I would guess isolate themselves, to protect themselves. They do not go near anything that would remind them or make them possibly feel the feelings of when they felt not in control, weak or wounded. By not attaching themselves, they do not deal with any of the feelings associated with it. They are for the creature. They are still in survival mode. They are still emotionally the child that is consistently just surviving through fuel. Any pain, loss, weakness is all held by the creature inside them, that they keep at bay, through their construct. Without it, they would feel a tremendous amount of pain both emotionally, mentally and physically it would be too much, as they have only learnt how to keep all of it at bay by the creature and construct. It’s never been processed or dealt with. It’s completely raw, and probably very frightening to even have a conscious thought about. Because they are still that child underneath, who has only learnt to survive.
I’m always protecting myself in a similar way. But I have processed and dealt with some of the pain, but it debilitates me still. The pain is unending. I have to feel my creature every day… if you will. As I do not have a construct like a narc does.
I too have difficulties with attachment. But I have gone opposite way to the narc in the fact that if I get attached to someone, that’s kinda IT and I mean that in every sense of the word, for me it’s for life, I cannot let go, although I have had to many times but emotionally I never let go, I am incapable of doing so….it can be immensely painful to let go and move on. It will feel like someone I love has died. I will literally grieve that person as if they have died. But often I will have a total emotional and mental breakdown. Therefore I have to be wary of who I get attached to. I will push people away often before it even gets that far. That’s BPD, and codependency issues for you.
Tigerchelle, I did not receive any notification for your comment above. I just read it.
I totally agree with you. I know narcs, as children, did not have the tools to deal with loss, neglect, abandonment, abuse. My first comment was more a reflection on the issue of attachment from a more general (adult) POV. When I then realized that what I had written in it could be seen as if I expected people with NPD, or HG in this case, to have that POV, which was not my intention, I wrote my second comment. Again, I totally agree with everything you say in your comment.
I am sorry to hear you lost your mother and you had an abusive father. You seem to have a good insight of your own disorder. I consider myself a codependent, although not the most codependent codependent. 😉
Lou
Ha ha ha…that was a good one!
HG
Okay, so I read the article back in your Mothers voice. She must have been of that opinion also, and you can see that she had to have children as it was necessary to the facade. So why the hate for her then? She was just doing as you are now. I am not saying this just to be inflammatory or mean, Im truly trying to understand how you reconcile that in your mind.
Just checking this damn notification box that disappears when I am logged in!
A thought ive had in my mind a lot lately is about pain. Pain hurts but is pain always “bad”? Women feel pain giving birth but its the most incredible experience. So much good can come from pain. Strength comes from enduring pain. Wisdom comes from pain. Why do we avoid painful situations so much? It hurts but whats worse is avoiding pain and making decisions that arent good decisions bc were afraid of that pain. Pain isnt always a bad thing when you can grow from it and take away something positive.
ChiMum
Don’t beat around the bush. If you want nipple clamps for your birthday just say so.
Narcangel that kind of pain i avoid 😁
Hi NarcAngel, did you get to see my replay to you of my time with the ex Narc. I had…Hope you are doing well. Be well S.W. p.s. Narc. don’t seem to feel emotional pain. So a good kick in the balls might bring them some good pain of satisfactory for us for a moment. ON YOUR Knees you AssHole…lol
Oh NarcAngel, I have missed you. You had been silent these last days. I had started to believe HG had given you the wrong roll of toilet paper. I am glad to see he did not .
Lou
Well I went camping with a narcissist. What do you think happened? He left me in the woods and I had to walk home.
Btw-fatigues are aptly named.
Lou
I was hoping that she was diligently writing another missive to her narcissist.
Ouch! …Narc angel but thanks for the laugh! 😆
K, I am looking forward to reading that letter, if NA decides to write it.
I like the picture of your profile K.
Thank you, Lou
In anticipation of the potential of another NA letter, I doubled my shares in popcorn on the NYSE.
I like the picture too, that is when we loved each other.
K
My writing of another letter to HG was just a future fake for those who love to hate me lol. I have many letters in me as we all do, but its not a concrete plan. I thought it would be an interesting take for us to write a letter to our younger selves knowing what we know now.
It is a nice photo K, which kind of makes me sad because it reminds me of the beauty a healthy sibling relationship can have in the life of those lucky ones who did not have narc parents.
Or maybe I am just idealizing normal sibling relationships. Who knows, maybe it is the same misery everywhere with or without narc parents.
I doubt it though.
Nipple clamps. That was fantastic!
I agree with you, voluntarily exposing ourselves to the things we fear, help us to to feel more brave. It does not stop you fearing the thing as it were, but you can become stronger and braver and not so avoidant. Emotional pain can often come with this. I believe I have felt an intense emotional pain over the last year due to entanglement with the narcissist, and the way inwhich I have chosen to process it. I did not want it but oh how I have learned from it… I am exhausted from emotional pain and evolving myself, but I also feel more whole and real then I ever have before.
Wisdom and intelligence are very different, and i agree with you that wisdom can come from pain- as we learn the lesson with our intellect and our emotions.
NarcAngel’s response also made me chuckle…
Hi quasi…great post! I do think in some situations you can overcome fear by exposing yourself to it. Not all but some situations. You gain huge amounts of confidence facing your fears. Its not a comfortable thing but worth it.
Chihuahuamum, I was thinking the same last night. So what if you lose the object of your attachment and feel hurt and cry and suffer for a while?! If you are clever, you learn and you grow and go on with your life. You grow out of your pain. And this feels healthy to me. You learn to attach in a healthier way (boundaries), to accept change, grow stronger and become more emotionally whole and independent.
As in everything, too much attachment (as in too much empathy) is detrimental; it does produce and spread misery. Zero attachment also produces and spreads misery (although apparently not for the narcissist). As in everything, attachment is a matter of finding a middle point, IMO.
What I see in this post is the total isolation narcissists put themselves in in order to avoid being hurt and suffer. I know they need it because the narcissistic wound they are protecting goes deep. Their abandonment issues are deep. So they do avoid suffering by not attaching to anything but fuel, but the price they pay for it in terms of emotional arrest is, in my opinion, high. But HG would say, “who cares, Lou?”
I see HG as a surfer, always riding the big wave on its very top and changing waves whenever the current one is going down. I am sure it is very exciting. But to be always avoiding the fall and hoping, yes HOPING, a new wave will come to lift him up… Well, does not appeal to me. But I am not a narc, I know, I am not equipped to live life like that. I guess HG may think that that is because I am inferior; I am not an Übermensch like him . I do not know. All I know at the moment is that I have grown the most out of pain and that I am now freer and stronger than most narcissists I know. I am attached to fuel, but not to the degree my narcs are. I do not need it to survive.
Lou,… I don’t see HG as a surfer hitting the big waves, nah…. I see HG as the one in control of the wave machine lol!
Hi lou …ty for your reply and very true about attachment it needs to be healthy attachment. Codependant attachment is unhealthy. I view narcissists as codependant and they switch to attaching to fuel instead of emotionally to people.
Healthy attachment is two whole people who can be ok on their own but choose to be with that person bc they value and love them not bc they need them to feel good about themselves.
I totally agree with you Chihuahuamum.
Correction: HG does not hope another wave will come, he just finds it and calculates the best moment to jump.
I cant imagine living life without attaching.
To someone who thinks like this id ask them why do you think you were put on earth. Its not by chance youre here.
I think were here to love and to learn. We have a soul for a reason. If you think youre here just to acquire things and be praised youre missing the true meaning of life.
It can be painful attaching and thats a reality but to not attach is a product of fear. Not attaching bc the pain itd cause is to be afraid and not live life the way you are supposed to.
A friend of mine married while their spouse was terminally ill. They didnt let the fact they were dying stop them from loving that person despite knowing itd cause them pain when they did pass on. They died last week and her spouse is hurting but theyd not change a thing. What they had was beautiful and a prime example of unselfish love. Being there to the end thru the ups and downs of an insidious disease. Ive learned so much thru their journey. Attaching can hurt but it shouldnt stop a person from doing so. Love is a gift. So much can be learned thru connecting with others both good and bad. With learning comes personal growth. Narcissists growth is stunted. Their fears and insecurities keep them in a capsule unable to evovle and experience the beautiful things in life.
They fear attachment bc they are scared of the pain it can bring. They avoid out of fear and insecirity.
HG ,
Have you ever been in the hospital for a long period of time, About a month ? Have you ever had a near death experience ? Have you ever been picked on or made fun of when younger, as a little boy, and someone stuck up for you. These are just some ways I became attached to someone. I had to be in a state of helplessness …..But , as an adult is is extremely hard to become attached to anyone new … unless they are in an extremely needy state or an abused animal ….or a lost confused child . Have you ever been so drunk that you fell over in the street and someone picked you up and took care of you ? Just wondering if any of these has ever happened to you in this life. ?
1. No
2. Do you mean I nearly died through illness or injury or had a brush with death but was unscathed?
3. No.
I mean actually died and saw the after life ….another realm . I know a narc that had two heart attacks and was actually dead ….but came back. He has somewhat of a different outlook or perspective.
HG, do you have any children?
No.
OK, thanks. I was just curious to know more about the perspective of a narc parent on attachment etc.
Mollyb5, would you mind sharing more about this narc who had the near death experience? How did he change?
He is a friend of my spouse. I’m not around him enough to see the change but, he told me what he experienced and he seemed to be a little different. But …that’s all I can say right now . He is just 56 yrs old .
Ok. Thanks Mollyb5
Hi molly….my grandmother died on the operating table and was physically out of her body and had a near death experience. My other grandmother as well while undergoing chemo.
Ive seen people humbled in life by health related changes they had no control over. One stands out and is a woman who had a form of meningitis. It turned into a deadly form of infection within her body and started shutting organs down. She ended up losing all her limbs. Before this happened she was how she describes as very self centered and didnt care about others. Im not sure if she was a narcissist. She now travels and does motivational speeches and helps others in similiar situations.
Viruses, bacterial infections, cancer…disease…are beyond our control in many cases. Narcissists arent exempt.
That is really interesting .
Tigerchelle78, This is life WE are born. We live. We suffer or have joy, then die. The secret I have found as most, is HOW we think. Our minds can be our best friends or worst enemies. No matter what culture or country, we all have the same emotions. We are here together to help each other in this Journey of life. IF I am having a hard time, Thank you God, someone else has lived it or had it worse and that take out the fear for me. FEAR is the biggest pbstacle of getting out of pain. I would rather have physical pain then mental pain.WE all are entitled to vent our feeling of pain. It takes all of us different time tables of getting through things. THE SECRET is not to be stuck there. AS WE all our entitled to feel our emotions. Grieve love be excited…IT is just NOT pain. THE issue with a Narcissist, THEY pain the gives us, Manipulates many of those laws of the Universe. THEY some how know how to mind fuck rape our minds and give us extreme pain that is self reflected. It is not pain of circumstance out side of us, It seems it is pain of Us against Us. If that makes sense. So my favorite Prayer is Palms 23. The lord is my shepherded. WE walk through the valley of death evil life, WE do not stay their and we sit and know our enemies. We are anointed through life of being protected. WE are still Standing and we have each others backs to help until we can stand on our own…S.W.
Spiritual warrior….
I’m not sure entirely what you are trying to say. Though I have some idea. I don’t always get what people are saying in here. The way I see it is the enemy is inside of me. That’s what I hate. In the fact that, I have my father’s traits deeply entrenched within me. It angers me and upsets me to such a degree that I want to end my life often, because I don’t want to have those traits. I don’t want to be drawn to narcs either. If I could literally reach inside my brain and pull out the narc like traits, I would.
You talked about the Psalms. I am familiar with the bible. It has helped me a lot. Yes Psalms 23 is well known to many and great.
I like Psalm 26:4,5 “I do not associate with deceitful men, and I avoid those who hide what they are. I hate the company of evil men, and I refuse to associate with the wicked.”
I don’t know if being here is helping me or just reminding me.
I wish you well….
Michelle xx
Hi Michelle, Thank you for sharing we are here to help each other too. I am was raised Christian, but I am all open to anything of positive healing and growing. From Spiritual spirits to healing rocks to rituals to burning saint candles with prayers. I was accused of doing black magic and ugly things from my sister to my born again Christian mother. I told her, YOU can not serve the devil and God at the same time. Evil is real, and I finally got a taste of it through my Narc. Always remember, WE have choices. WE may not like the choices we have or feel limited, BUT we have choices. I was living with my abusive sister for 20years. She has Narc. traits. I was waiting for a safe place to move and I finally got it. I feel pain often of the Children taken from their parents at the border, or a small 10year old girl gang raped and killed and thrown in a garbage bin in a 3rd world country. A boy 12 years old kidnapped by his friends and he was sexually assaulted with a stick then got his skull bashed in. I get a saint candle I write a prayer for the poor soul or anyone or my self and put in the fire place and let my prayer burn. It is my way of dealing with hurt and pain of the world. What happened to me was not as bad as much of the worlds ugliness of evil but I got messed with and abused, so I give myself permission for feeling my hurt and then I empower myself of learning of what happen to me. WE are Warriors, WE must try to do our best to heal. YOU wanting to end life as you are feeling pain in it, YOU have choices, BUT as I say we are alone in our thoughts and mind of thinking. WE know nothing of what is going on in each of our minds. I have NO shame as that is what people have a lot of. Why I have no shame, Because I know I am NOT alone and anything I have gone through or I am not up to par to some of my family of friends as NOT married, no kids NOT rich Comparing my life to others I have learned not to do. How I should be living my life at 51, it is MY life My journey…Be kind and have faith in YOU…YOU are NOT your father, WHY because you take knowledge of things in you, you do not like and want to change…That is a win for you. Narc. do not see or care to change…Pain is part of life, what you do with it, is up to youBlessing and Kindness to you….Cindy
Thank you Cindy for your words.
Yes, you are right, we do all have a choice! I wish you well…
Tigerchelle78
The traits are not bad, it is how you chose to use them. You are not your father and hating yourself because you have some traits that are similar how does this help you? you are you and hold the power to chose how you either react/response and how you use these traits.
Thank you Twilight, sometimes it gets difficult. These traits are strong. But so are the empathic ones. It is sometimes difficult keeping it all under control. I often find myself going into this mode, where (and yes it does feel powerful) I wish to control, manipulate and abuse verbally others or play mind games. I’ve seen what it can do many many times on different people, and in the past I have used these traits to my advantage. I guess sometimes I’ve needed to. Plus the fact I had to show my Father what I had become. There are other narcs within my family. Some that have more influence, and I knew my Father would always yield to this particular narc (my grandmother – my mum’s mum) and I had to befriend and get to know her and her ways, and she taught me other things. She is or was also a witch for some time and literally could call down evil on people. I’m not joking! You don’t wanna mess with her! They are also the kind of people that know people in different organizations, and can if need be get out of certain things, or if someone has crossed them, use these ones to go and sort someone out. She would just say the word, and it was as good as done! Out of everyone in the family, she told my father, that I have her gifts. Obviously I do not see them as gifts, but after that, my father backed off from me. It was like he respected me. Anyway, I do not meddle in this world. I am aware of it all. She is very old now. I do not have anything to do with her, nor my father. I stay completely away from them. They have put me through a lot. That’s an understatement. It is not for me. I’ve tasted it. But I chose a different path. I do not like what I saw. I don’t like what it made me become. So I chose to be different. So every time I get those narc traits come up within me, I remind myself of that world. I reject it. But I know it and am familiar with its ways and how it works.
tigerchelle78
I may come off harsh not my intentions, yet every time I interact with you the energy is as your trying to prove something to yourself or the world, I am not looking for you to answer me or explain anything to me.
Lies one tells themselves actually annoy the hellout of me due to the person is holding themselves back. It is negative energy that is blocking the way forward for the person.
Be who you are and not what you believe yourself to be, you will experience freedom.
HG or anyone else input….My Narcissist had many many women a harem for years. Old new and soon to go after a new victim. The best High for a Narc. He had a second phone a sex phone. He could juggle many women at once. Texting was his best way of communicating. He had files of us. He would keep our text, photos, and e-mails. I to this day did NOT know how he kept most of us, NOT knowing of his other women. I think once or twice in the 4 years of us in a relationship there was a slip here or there. BUT as usually his great talking Manipulation skills. He had a GF and a secret life he tired to keep secret, BUT yet he was messy and showing or telling to much of the real life he had as Father, divorce and his President of an Aerospace company blasted all over the internet. HOW did he NOT think WE women would NOT start questioning him. Outing him. NOT contact his GF as she is outing their relationship all over FB of years. HG or others HOW do they keep so organized and Us from finding out of each other for years. BUT yet Karma got him and her the GF….This has been a big piece of the puzzle I do not understand…Thank you.
Spiritual Warrior
Compartmentalization, lies and manipulation. It all comes very easily to the narcissist and sometimes they are blinded by their narcissism and they can get sloppy and get caught.
“It is far better to never become attached in the first place. I cannot trust. How can I when I was given a salutary and compelling lesson that if you try to attach all you receive in return is rejection and misery. Better not to bother. ”
“The Creature has all of that and it can keep it.
I rose from the seat of misery and I found a new throne.”
Those statements actually cause me to feel anger towards your mother!
With attachment comes fear, and with love comes pain. One such as myself cannot separate the two. So I have to take love, pain, attachment and fear altogether, or have nothing at all.
The narcissist learns it seems to have nothing.
I cannot live or survive without love and attachment. But there is constant fear and pain there too.
At University I read about Bowlby’s attachment theory and maternal deprivation. He would describe you as an affectionless psychopath as experience has taught you that you can’t rely on anyone because of your abandonment in formal years (I don’t know the full story with your mother but I’ve read a few snippets here and there).
Are you an affectionless psychopath or true psychopath? – maybe that’s why you’re in therapy. Born with it or made by experiences or both.
The first part of your blog – I relate to 100% – we all make attachments – what you describe is normal attachments when people link to you throughout life and experiences. People attach to me all of the time – I can be like a magnet – the difference is – I don’t want to control them, it’s not compulsory or a desperate need to like yours is. Quite frankly, I’d find it exhausting to constantly be on the hunt for fuel. How boring. Constantly setting up scenarios and plotting to gather fuel. (This is no disrespect to you – more an observation of behaviours).
There IS misery with attachment as I have had the misfortune of experiencing BUT I’d take the leap again. Not because I’m a sucker for punishment but because life can’t be lived fully otherwise. (I know you’ll say you are doing just fine and are proof that you live the most fabulous life) but it’s not real is it?
I am attached to you as a tertiary source and keep coming back because of your blogs as I fight to remain NO CONTACT. One day soon I will leave because it’s unhealthy for me to keep reading and believing the madness that goes on. I hope I’ll never need to come and find you again because I’ll take the tools you gave me into my next chapter.
As always HG, your descriptive use of words is powerful. Kudos to you.
Love and attachment is risky. I can see why people make it more manageable, like you do HG.
I personally am not attracted to the dogmatic solution. It is too static to me, too solid.
And I love (I am attached to :)) the idea that no one can entirely dominate situations or people.
I think for my ex-N , her problems stem from her mother calling each of the kids ‘it’,as in ‘its’ crying again or ‘its’ hungry again. My ex-N and put this all together when a granddaughter was born and she kept referring to her as an ‘it’. Can you imagine the emotional damage that can cause a child??!!
Pale Horse
In my “family” we were referred to by him as: you people. So I know what you mean.
Good to hear from you NarcAngel. Yes, I have heard many use that expression as well. The N uses such to create separation between him or her and ” the less than”. Till next time. Be well.
NA, I can only imagine the pain that must have caused you and your family. To have this more than/less than dichotomy always playing out in the daily life filled with innocence. I like you NA. I think we may be able to relate in more ways than either of us may think. Or at the risk of being narcissistic, maybe not 😉
The misery of attachment is one of the four noble truths in Buddhist theology. Desire brings suffering. Many will agree with you on this HG, however it’s not a new idea, though I suspect you already know that.
You are stirring huge philosophical questions inside me… let’s see if I can whip them into something palatable in future…..
The following words are interesting and telling, I think:
“I have heard it before, but I see over and over again the misery that always arises from these attachments. It is not worth it.”
What do we “see” when we think of relationships? What do we get out of them? Does the “good” outweigh the “bad”? Is it “worth” it? How do we define “worth”?
It makes me think there is something in our brains, like a biological switch or something like that, which makes our belief system say either yes, it’s worth it, or no, it isn’t.
It is worth it! My motto on the subject is as said by Shelby from Steel Magnolias: “I would rather have 30 minutes of wonderful than a lifetime of nothing special”
This is what makes me vulnerable. An easy target. A little bit of heaven is worth a chunk of hell; fits with the narcissistic dynamic perfectly.
I know what you mean MB. I think relationships are worth it too. In fact, before I knew about narcissism and all it involves, I never would have even dreamed of needing to answer that question. I’d be like, “Are they worth it?! What?!! How can you even ask that?? Of course they are worth it!!”
There was no question in my mind that relationships were simply not worth having, especially with my immediate family. And yes, that kind of thinking can make you very vulnerable, because you simply don’t see that anything bad will happen (at least I didn’t see it back then). Knowing about narcissism etc has really made me question and evaluate what I would have just taken for granted before.
WN, even though I’ve become aware of narcissism, I still can’t help but trust when I first meet somebody. Very few people give me the “skeeves” from the get go. (Although it has happened.). I’m naive I suppose. Almost everybody gets the “innocent until proven guilty” treatment with me. Some remain innocent much longer than others however! Ha ha
MB,
Your description of your “innocent until proven guilty” treatment was very much the way I used to approach people too. At least, that’s how I behaved (in my conscious mind). That was my cognitive belief. I thought I truly believed that people were generally trustworthy because “I” saw myself as trustworthy, so I projected that onto other people.
The funny thing is that although I had this attitude and thought it was innate and I did cognitive “believe” relationships were worth having, I now see that my subconscious thought differently. While I generally liked and wanted to have relationships, I subconsciously kept people at arms length. If the relationship was getting too close or too committed, I generally found some “excuse” to believe it wasn’t right or it wasn’t worth pursuing. I think I either subconsciously let other things get in the way or pursued relationships with people who were “unavailable” in some way.
Now, when I delve really deeply into how I really feel deep down about relationships, I see that I felt it was safer and easier to tackle things alone and to rely only on myself. I felt I could trust myself more than I could trust other people. It is very, very hard to shift this belief when I really think about it.
If I really analyse my beliefs about relationships and attachments, I can see my attitude is a form of “split-thinking”. When it comes to the crunch, I believe I have a fear of attachment. I don’t feel secure in trusting others.
WiserNow is such a good blog name for you. The level of introspection you exhibit is a beautiful thing.
Thank you very much MB. That is very kind of you to say. Sometimes I feel anything but wise and I feel I need to work at my thought processes every day.
Thank you also, for listening. I appreciate it very much and I’m very sorry to have chewed your ear off and bored you to tears. I realise now I was only talking about myself in an introspective monologue! 🤦♀️ Please know that I truly appreciate your responses. Your comments about trusting people actually made me think about that in depth, so thank you. Writing my thoughts here helps to understand things better. However, it must look very self-centred, so I apologise.
Like you, I generally approach most people with the attitude that they’re trustworthy, unless they’re obviously suspicious in some way. I didn’t know about narcissism for almost my whole life and really never suspected that anyone could be that constantly and deliberately manipulative. I’m not sure if it’s naivete or perhaps the wish to believe that people are innately “good”. We probably “project” our own empathic traits like honesty, conscientiousness and empathy onto other people, believing they have the same traits.
I’m very glad we can see things more clearly know and also grateful to have HG to take us into that “other” world.
No ear chewing or bored tears at all WN. I like reading your posts and all the others here too. I find this to be the appropriate forum for such introspection and soul searching. I share things here I don’t talk about anywhere else. This is a good place for support and validation. Our similar experiences create a bond that can’t be found IRL for the most part. Thinking “out loud” is wonderful therapy. Like you, I am grateful to have found HG. He’s a game changer!
Thank you MB. You are very kind and understanding and I think THAT is a truly beautiful thing! Thank you ❤️
I agree that this is a great forum for introspection and soul searching. I learn so much from HG and everyone here as well. I’m very grateful for this blog too.
With everything especially relationships there is an amount of risk involved. It’s not attachments in themselves that are wrong but its the kind of things we get attached to.
I tend to think of a narc like a very powerful drug. When you take this drug, the narc will give you passion, lust, and make you feel like you are the sexiest and most beautiful woman alive, he will put you on a pedestal like you’ve never known, and his focus on you and you alone will take over you, and he will whisk you up in a whirlwind of well….pretty much anything you want it to be….
They are great I suppose for affairs, one night stands, that kind of thing.
But they can’t give you stability. They can’t give you safety of an emotional and psychological nature. This drug can’t give you consistency, or unconditional love. They can only give you what they have learnt and picked up over the years and copied. He cannot give you what he does not have within himself. He is empty and hollow. He will give you a good time for a little while just like a drug….he will distract you and he will become your whole world. But then people get addicted to it…..here is where the problem lies.
A normal relationship will not perhaps have those dizzying highs, but it won’t have the dizzying lows either. It is whatever you make it and both put into it.
But people get not surprisingly so attached to this real good stuff, because a narc drug is like that “high” drug. And like any drug, you want more of it. Of course you do, it makes you feel good. But it’s all an allusion. It’s not real.
A narc doesn’t do healthy relationships. They don’t do long-lasting. They don’t do selfless and self sacrificing. They don’t really do companionship, trust, friendship, all the actual important and healthy stuff in a relationship. They just make you high for a while. With any drug, comes consequences. You have to treat the narc like a drug. And your addiction to that drug is as powerful as any other addiction out there. We are or have all become addicted in here. We are all addicts to a greater or larger degree.
We all took the red pill, and went down that rabbit hole.
And are all later saying….. why o why didn’t I just take the blue pill?!
Some of us, like myself were born with this addiction. We didn’t get the choice of whether or not we wished to take the drug. It was already in our system. That’s certainly how it feels to me anyway…..
You can’t make a narc relationship work. You might aswell be punching the wind!!!
I like the way you’ve explained this Tigerchelle78.
I agree with what you say about the “intense” emotional reactions you get with narcs that don’t seem to be the same with “normal” relationships. It’s very true, and what seems spooky is that it just happens like a spell sometimes and you don’t even realise your emotional thinking has been activated in that way.
“A narc doesn’t do healthy relationships. They don’t do long-lasting. They don’t do selfless and self sacrificing. They don’t really do companionship, trust, friendship, all the actual important and healthy stuff in a relationship.” – Tigerchelle78.
Well said, Tiger!
HG, in a way you are lucky not to have attachments. It is painful.
Great article, as always.
Indeed.
“You may ask me what I might think of those who I interact with and I can conjure up the tributes and platitudes in an instant:-
“John? Excellent worker, never lets the company down, a key member of the team.”
“She is a wonderful woman, I do not know what I would do without her. She is my world.”
“He is amazing. First name on the team sheet every week.”
“NarcSide Inc? Fucking brilliant. Use them. I did once. Never gone anywhere else.”
But for all of this I feel nothing by way of attachment. I bolt you on to me, but I will not attach to you.”
Do you mean the compliments that you give and say about others or is that also fake too? As in…. do you actually feel those things about all those people? Or do you just sort of…make it up because you feel nothing? I hope you know what I’m trying to ask.
We do and say whatever is necessary in the moment to obtain what we want.
And the only thing you want is fuel.
So if you just say those things to get what you want and you don’t feel those things for anyone yet you just NEED people to feel those things toward you? (Aka: Fuel)?
So essentially you feel nothing at all toward anyone unless are giving YOU Fuel? Or do you still not feel those things for anyone even if they are fueling you?
Correct.
We feel a variety of things towards people dependent on how they are interacting with us.
Most excellent, cute Quasi. You CAN own that, but please remember that it also is NOT YOUR FAULT. You did nothing wrong.
I share your pain. I tried SO hard to be his friend… and he has (thus far) rejected everything about that. I still don’t know why… why not be my friend? It makes little sense to me.
And it’s made me sad.
I shouldn’t be upset — nor confused — by this… but I am. It’s the only hurt I do still feel.
So I very much relate to what you’re saying. XO.
Hey Caroline,
How you doing lady ? Change of tone in your words ….. do you need a love bomb from a British girl who thinks that you are a whole lot of wonderful! ? X
Most excellent so reminds me of bill and teds excellent adventure – which made me smile, lol..
I understand what your saying lovely. I am aware of many things when it comes to my interaction with him. I know there are many parts of the dynamic that were “my fault”, and to me that is ok, I don’t take responsibility for his actions or behaviours, but I do take responsibility for my own..
I have known for some time, the part I played, the decisions I made. I have not found taking responsibility and acknowledgement of these things as self flagellating, I have found it empowering, and just being honest with myself.
For friendships to have meaning there is a need for an attachment of some degree, dependent on the individuals and the type of friendship. My understanding from what I have read on narcsite is that terms such as friends are used as a socially acceptable and relatable term, but they hold no meaning to the narcissist. Everyone is an object that functions for them or does not .
So actual friendship that generally requires a level of care, respect, and good intentions to work and be meaningful is not possible for them.
It was my value of people and connections that made me very easy to manipulate initially, I have the absolute opposite view of people then he had. It was always the hardest part for me too and made me most upset.
I always thought if he had only left my role to him as an NISS he would have received a high level of attention and adoration from me, for a longer period of time, years. But it was about what he wanted, he wanted to conquer me in other ways; power, control, superiority were higher on his agenda. However due to this want of his , he could not maintain me. When the dynamic changed to an intimate basis, my eyes became open, and it was not long before he lost me. He created the end of our relationship through his predictions of “people/ especially women” all being the same, and his debilitating fear of rejection.
You feel how you feel Caroline, if it’s hurt then it’s hurt.. there is no shoulds when it comes to things like this, our rational mind has no control over our emotions and feelings, only our decisions and actions!
We can’t make ourselves feel something that we don’t! Just like a narcissist can not do this.
The important thing Caroline is that you recognise how it has made you feel and process that in what ever way suits you as a person.
“We need to feel, to heal”…
Take care Caroline, and be kind to you too.. x
Aw, thanks for taking the time to give me your thoughtful insights, Quasi … and thanks for your concern too. Very sweet.
I’m okay, but I needed to reflect and regroup. I got into some ET because of an apology from the narcissist, followed by a lot of niceness… seemed almost normal.
My ET was: How hard would it be for me to (long distance) keep it in a restricted friendship box?
Yeah, it’s not possible, at all. This is coming from my optimistic side, my ever-forgiving side, my “hope-springs-eternal” side. None of those things are a plus, when you have an ex-BF who is a narcissist and sees you as his IPPS (guess there’s no statute of limitations). I got caught up thinking how to change the dynamic…ironically, I think, out of self-protection. He was getting beyond testy.
It’s stupid to get my feelings hurt that he won’t view me as a friend. Besides the fact that he doesn’t view a friend in the way I mean anyhow, he’s actually doing me a favor, showing me — over and over — that he will not deal with me like a “friend.” The truth is that I have no idea what it would be like to be in a (fake) friendship with him… because from the moment I met him (and through a 3-year FR) — up until now — he has never treated me like a friend.
GOSO is the only way, and I know it.
I can do that, despite what he does now. I’m getting tired of my false hope, in thinking I can change this into something positive. He has a disorder — I cannot turn that into ORDER. It’s not logical, nor is attempting to be friends with him.
He also needs to be fully blocked from calling me at work, which I need to fix TODAY.
Thanks for caring, sharing and listening, Quasi. You’ve sufficiently love-bombed me, in the best way. 😉 XO!
Lovely Caroline,
Your rational mind has answered all of your questions, it often will if you ask yourself the questions and see what comes to the forefront of your mind.
In my opinion ET has a purpose, even if it gets us to ask ourselves questions to better understand ourselves and the situation. So your ET brought you to ask yourself tough and painful questions and conclude with the most rational and balanced answer … GOSO… there is no friendship with a narcissist when his agenda is different, there is no manipulation or measure that you can take to get him to see you in a certain way … it may be painful, but to stay and hope is more painfully damaging to the soul.. you got this Caroline..
If ever you need a love bomb from me just holla ! I gotcha back…
I also just think that you are lush, and anyone that can make me laugh the way you do is all good in my book.. Qx
(apologies if this posts twice~lost connection, so re-did reply):-)
Thanks so much the encouragement and support, Quasi. XO!
Well, as you Brits would likely say, I had some “sorting out” to do at work today. With the secretaries, I had to get much more real about my “ex-BF problem,” so that some changes could be made. Despite how much I hated worrying them further, they were so caring, and I feel relieved…a better shot now at real NC.
Even though this hoovering has sucked (no pun intended), I can still see some humor in it. But I swear, if I had never found this site/figured out he’s a narcissist, I would have long ago driven to him and checked him into the nearest ER for an eval…because pretty darn crazy how you’re acting, Mr. Man… lordy!
This is one of my favourites, together with ‘Forever on the fake’. Great clearness. Thank yo so much for these, HG.
Powerful words, HG. Incredibly so, actually.
No doubt, you possess finely-tuned skills for provoking an attachment. That talent is exhibited here as your followers seem to grow like weeds. So much of you reminds me of my narcissist. I think that’s why I keep revisiting… you say what he tries to keep hidden.
Recently, he revealed a deeper part of himself. I was so upset, that I almost reached out to you immediately… to see if there is anything that I can do to help him? But then I became angry and torn. The events will best be discussed during a consultation, but I don’t want to disrupt your trip. However, your presence in my time-zone will afford more opportunities to speak. I have a busy schedule this upcoming week. I didn’t know if you were only providing consultations upon your return to the UK, or if your stay here will be lengthy enough that it is “business as usual?”
Heck, I don’t even know if you’re here on business or pleasure, or both? I wish you could just swing by on your way back from Texas. We could pull the Adirondack chairs under an oak tree, sink our toes into the bluegrass, and I could spill my tumultuous narcissistic encounters while we sipped on some bourbon. (Smooth bourbon makes words smoothly flow.) But I realize that having a tenacious, wounded soul pick your brain is no man’s idea of a vacation.
But the invite is there. If you have a lady-friend with you, she’d be invited too! (No triangulation, of course.) I’d make you both whatever you wanted to eat. I’ll even be willing to sit through a display of all of your landmark travel pictures. (But if I’m paying extra for an in-the-flesh-session, you’re limited to 25 pics.) So whatcha say?
Uh. I know. Rule # 13. 😔
But it IS so much easier to talk in person! (I know that for some, email is best, but can you imagine ME trying that. I will never be able to type as fast as I talk.) So I agree with Chihuahuamum; it would be cool if you ever do decide to make a tour out of this service. I understand the need for anonymity, though, as I am rather embarrassed about my narcissistic interactions. So know that if I ever do stumble upon you in person, your secret identity will remain safe. And I feel safe in knowing that within your professional demeanor, you will also protect mine. (There are huge advantages to being a tertiary. Poor IPPSs.)
This article speaks of the depths of the wounds resulting in narcissistic behaviors. The fact that the narcissist has attachment issues can be argued as both a benefit and a flaw. Your words here speak of the ways of my narcissist. And it all makes me very sad.
So just let me know what the shop sign says? But do enjoy your stay! (Not that you’re burdening yourself with worry over needy empaths, but you know what I mean: Don’t work without play. 😊)
I don’t know how HG could turn down such a hospitable invite as that BKK!
Well MB, I’ve been sitting under this oak tree, patiently waiting. I thought I’d pop back in to remember what actual a/c feels like… and to see if The Boss posted his shop hours.
{Ah-Uhhh… and another –sigh– one too long to translate into text.} I see that he didn’t even glance this way. 😢
This is not the first time that I’ve been stood up by a narc. But like the last one, HG will soon realize what he’s missing.
😆 You should just come over instead, MB. I had to stay hydrated in this humidity, but I still have SOME bourbon left. 🍻 Oh, the stories we could tell!
(Actually, I’ve been super busy with work. 🏃 Sorry for the delayed response. But thanks for calling out The Boss on his oversight. I appreciate you, MB!)
Haha, this reminds me of like meeting Clark Kent and not revealing his identity as Superman….
Who wouldn’t want to meet HG and have a few drinks with him. I know I would.
As soon as you get intimate in any way, the pain and fear come into play. You cannot have the good without the bad. You certainly would want to keep your distance that’s for sure!
(Psst….I really hope you don’t bump into my father, but if you do, can you kick his ass for me?! But don’t do anything too stupid as its the death penalty over there!)
Hellio, Tigerchelle78… Like Clark Kent, I have my own version of a cape… although it is buried somewhere??? Give me just a bit to see if I can pull it out of storage.
Not to brag, but I do hold a green belt in Tae Kwon Do. (That was from many years ago, so I’d have to stretch first, but if I ever run into your father and don’t break a hip in the process, I’ll bring it! 👣) Please know that I can’t promise that I won’t scream like a girl… and a green belt isn’t very high on the food chain of Korean colors, but I WILL give it my best!
I’m sorry that your father seems to have been an unkind fellow, but it’s nice to see that your sense of humor has stayed intact. And speaking of… I always thought it was odd how Clark thought those glasses were enough to conceal his identity. 👓 Now that’s funny.
And don’t worry about the death penalty. I’ll probably be ready to go by the time litigation is complete. It’s a pretty lengthy process. Besides, we do have plenty of talented narcissistic lawyers that won’t have too hard of a time arguing that it was my PTSD from narcissistic neglect that turned me into an ass-kicking vigilante… you know – if I don’t break that hip.
BKK,
Just an ever-so-subtle/gentle little reminder… 😉
Sweet Caroline, once again, you made me laugh out loud! I always enjoy your outlook and know that you have my back. Thanks for the reminder.
Although I’m curious as a cat, I really did just want the visit for HG’s professional advice. But after seeing this video, my first thought was… I like our phantom’s voice better. So maybe you got a point, Caroline. I still am very much vulnerable to narcissists. 😔
Speaking of, I want to address your comments regarding staying “friends” with the narcissist, but I must get to my next site as… at least my clients eagerly await my visits.
Anyway, when I get a few more free minutes, I’ll get back with you on all of that. I’ve been there… too much to say! But keep holding strong, Caroline. It’s those quiet moments that are the hardest for everyone, for both sides of this war.
He won’t admit it, but I bet that your handsome narc is struggling with the loss way more than you are.
Hey, it’s my opera… I’ll sing it to the tune that best suits our voices. 😄
Yes, a lot of advantages. Only one disadvantage: you don`t do happy.
Your own words, HG. And that is one of the main reasons to live: to be happy. It is a high prize that you do pay. A very high prize.
Pain and happiness are both sides of a medal. One cannot exist without the other one. It is only a question of balance. But without? I do not want to be in your shoes.
But although you did not recognise it, I saw a little change of one of your attitudes lately. I will not tell you, it is a secret.
Pssst….will you share your secret with me, Mona? I promise I won’t tell HG. Pinky swear.
Then will you share with me K…. it will be like Chinese whispers in here soon lol!
tigerchelle78
Ha ha ha….yes, I will share it with you. Thanks for the laugh!
Good reframing HG
Think I finally have to agree with your side HG. Done with attachments!
This is an incredibly powerful article, with some of the most important information, literally in one place. It reinforces so much, a fundamental piece of writing that gives you pretty much the only answer you will ever truly need to know.
Without attachments it’s not real, secure and healthy attachments provide meaning, and can not really be formed without trust.
So it’s only real one way! But we know this, if we are honest with ourselves we can feel it too.. I know I did most of the damage to myself, with my wanting him to be a friend he could never be. I can own that !